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Messages - Tom Bishop

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1
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Terrible Political Memes
« on: December 06, 2021, 08:54:50 PM »

2
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Terrible Political Memes
« on: December 06, 2021, 08:08:36 PM »

3
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Terrible Political Memes
« on: December 04, 2021, 02:17:59 AM »

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Terrible Political Memes
« on: November 29, 2021, 08:02:07 PM »

5
Flat Earth Projects / Re: Untrustworthy quotation in the wiki
« on: November 28, 2021, 05:29:08 PM »
The margin of error for 1000 randomly selected people is only 3.2%. See the chart and links in the third and fourth posts of this thread.

6
Actually, I said nothing about lying. The problem is that you have no real world data.

7
No, I prefer a bi-polar model and don't think the sunlight necessarily takes those shapes. That type of behavior is the general argument for the Monopole model though.

The bi-polar model has the same issue with not agreeing with how solar noon is observed as the curved longitude model.  On the bi-polar model, the sun is not at it's closest distance to each location on a given longitude line.  Thus, solar noon would not be seen at the same time at all locations along a given longitude line the way it is observed to.

Who observed this? So far you have been unable to cite a single observation and keep referring to an online calculator which also does not cite any observations.

8
You are assuming that it's always circular for all times of the year. The wider Flat Earth community generally holds that light curves and behaves as if it were coming through a magnifying dome in the Monopole model, and that the daylight area sometimes changes shape upon the earth as the sun proceeds southwards:

That first video uses a hemisphere hunk of a glass magnifier, not a dome. If that is representative of reality we'd all be squashed by it. Better would be an upside-down glass bowl.

I didn't think you were a 'domer'. Are you?

No, I prefer a bi-polar model and don't think the sunlight necessarily takes those shapes. That type of behavior is the general argument for the Monopole model though.

9
You are assuming that it's always circular for all times of the year. The wider Flat Earth community generally holds that light curves and behaves as if it were coming through a magnifying dome in the Monopole model, and that the daylight area changes shape upon the earth as the sun proceeds southwards:



This is also the reason given for the southern celestial rotation as seen by the observer:





10
Incorrect. I didn't say that anyone is lying here. I said that the observations showing this are absent, and so therefore your argument is as well.

Where's your proof that Suncalc.org is false.  You know. You're own actual observations and data that show something different?  That's the point of your own post.  You've supplied no actual data, because you can't, that what is given on Suncalc doesn't match observations.  You simply say, "Suncalc is wrong."  It's a tired argument that no longer has merit.

And you'll continue to not address the issue of the lines of longitude curving the wrong way at sunset.

As far as I can tell sites like suncalc are not a collection of observations, and isn't claimed as such. Certainly, it would take a worldwide effort of prolonged observations and there is no record of such an effort. In fact, we once emailed timeanddate on the source of their information and they claimed it was proprietary.

From my own experience, using the live dynamic phone sun locator apps have always been off.

11
Incorrect. I didn't say that anyone is lying here. I said that the observations showing this are absent, and so therefore your argument is as well.


12
Actually the Wiki suggests that this is a better map for the Monopole model in regards to equinox and longitude discussions:



There's so much wrong with that it's hard to know where to start. I'll try...

Firstly, bending the lines of longitude like that hasn't fixed the problems I alluded to. The 45 degree circle centred on 0N 0W, for example, now lands on the eastern tip of Somalia. At 1200 UTC on next September's equinox in that place the sun will be around 35 degrees elevation, not 45.

The 90 degree circle still doesn't cover all of South America, so your model is saying it will be dark in places when it fact it will be very much daylight.

Next, in the process of trying to correct for some problems, you've introduced more problems. According to your EA model, you are suggesting that Polaris is 6000 miles overhead the North Pole. That means that everybody on a line of longitude running south from the North Pole should view Polaris directly north, at progressively lower elevations until the equator is reached. But now you've curved the lines, so people on, for example the 0 degree meridian won't see Polaris on the same heading. That is completely at odds with what we observe, what conventional science predicts, and what your initial explanation of EA would expect.

You need to back a horse here - you seem to be flitting from map to map as it suits. You can't have one map to explain one phenomenon and another for a different one - they all have to work the same way.

Actually the discrepancies you are attempting to point out with a circle are fallacious, as you have neglected to provide any real world observations of anything at all.

Further, you need to think about your arguments more.The direction of North to the observer wouldn't change if the longitude lines were curved. The North Star is still over the North Pole and traveling Eastwards or Westwards in relation to the North Star would take you in a circle. Likewise, if you travel East ot West in relation to the magnetic field lines which eminate from the North you would make a similar circle on that map, as East and West on a compass are at a right angle to North. The direction of North and the makeup of the longitude lines on the surface have nothing to do with each other.

Someone on 0,0 degrees at the equator is on a point. That point does not suggest where the other points of longitude are or where North is. The makeup of the longitude lines is determined by the time of day and time zones, are points unique to the observer's position, and has nothing to do with North.


13
Actually the Wiki suggests that this is a better map for the Monopole model in regards to equinox and longitude discussions:


14
Earth Not a Globe Workshop / Table of Contents and Outline
« on: November 20, 2021, 07:51:54 PM »
Some may have noticed that I have started thinking about this again. It took a while to circle around back to this. It took Rowbotham thirty years to come out with his final version, which I think is appropriate since a lot of this content is new and not built on a compilation or reiterations of earlier works, and would necessarily require thorough exploration, investigation, debate, and thought.

My goal at present will be to provide the commentary and philosophical and social arguments. We already have direct evidence and information about the Flat Earth and the models in the Wiki and that will be merged or rephrased into the work. I think this book should be split into three or four volumes. The first volume will focus on philosophical and social arguments. The second volume will focus on the evidence, which the reader can jump directly to if inclined. The third volume will focus on the Flat Earth models the community discusses.

The Wiki already contains much of the physical stuff, which will basically be merged or rephrased into the volumes two and three. I currently don't envision a section on history and would need someone like Dionysios to create a volume on the details of ancient Flat Earth history, so my current plan isn't to include much of that unless someone can contribute in that regard.

To complete the work a section on religion at the end seems oddly important, even though we don't really talk about that much. It's pretty important to the wider Flat Earth community though, and was important to previous FE societies. It can disclaim that not everyone connects FE to religion, but this is information on the subject. It can include an index on the flat earth quotes from scripture. Maybe it can include both the geocentric interpretation and the UA interpretation. It would be interesting to gather a few paragraphs of content from some of the bigger proponents on what Flat Earth means to them on religious grounds and include it into the book at the end.

Revised thoughts on a general outline:

Introduction (I would like to use this text)

Table of Contents
 -- + Instructions (Reader should jump around to their topic of interest)

Volume I - The Philosophy
 -- Prologue
 -- Reasons to Consider a Space Travel Conspiracy
 --
 --
 --

Volume II - The Evidence (mostly taken or rephrased from the Wiki)
 --
 --
 --
 --

Volume III - The Models (mostly taken or rephrased from the Wiki)
 --
 --
 --
 --

Volume IV - Religion ?
 --
 --
 --
 --

15
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Terrible Political Memes
« on: November 20, 2021, 04:55:51 AM »

16
A World Based on Lying

As we grow older we come to understand that our world is an onion with layers of lies, each more sinister than the last. On the surface the lies are indoctrinated and taught to be acceptable. We lie, we are told lies, and we are happy with lies.

When meeting a romantic interest a practice is to be a little less than honest with them by playing up a trait with flattery or by presenting yourself in a light somewhat inconsistent with reality. We have fake lawns, tell each other that we are “fine” even if we are not, and deny our own faults. We idealize those who tell us what we want to hear, even if it is disputable. We tell children outrageous like the existence of Santa Claus and find it to be perfectly palatable.

The entire concept of business is basically based on lying to customers. Buying a product for a low price and selling it for a higher price is fundamentally a lie; arguably unethical and not something you would do to a family member. Contrived “luxury” items, putting product on "sale", using models in advertisements to attract interest, uninvited pop-up advertising and on and on, are all arguably inherently unethical but accepted as standard practice.

Politicians use lies to garner public support and make promises that they know are unlikely to be fulfilled. They take money from business lobbying groups, promise the world, and once in power are often caught up in one scandal after the next. The banks lie with a fiat monetary system which involves lending out more money than they have in reserves. The news lies to you, framing events to drive you towards a certain editorial slant. In our pastime we will even entertain ourselves by deliberately watching lies to stimulate our emotions.

The Military is largely based on deception, and protecting those lies is considered to be honorable. Laws have been made to keep secrets secret, and allow the government to take down classified information and prevent news agencies from reporting it. We all know that if we post classified weapons plans onto the internet that we would face stringent penalties, risk our freedom, and the content won’t spread very far. State secrets are enforced by the rule of law, foreign cooperation, compliance of the media, and the bullet of a gun if necessary.

In a world of lies the US Government, which plays a lead role in NATO and the United Nations, is not above conducting secret wars (Pentagon Papers), protecting war criminals (Project Paperclip), and conducting medical experiments on you without your knowledge (MK-Ultra, Tuskegee), so what makes you think that they have qualms about lying to you about space travel? If the US wants it, if Russia wants it, if the entire human civilization wants it, wants tend to become reality.

Next: Pentagon Papers

17
Earth Not a Globe Workshop / Re: Introduction Page - comments wanted
« on: November 19, 2021, 05:53:49 AM »
I still think this text I contributed is a good introduction. Now that I've brought the Wiki to a mature state, which is what I was focused on for the past few years since this book started, I'm increasingly coming back to this book. Like the original ENAG I think half of the book needs to be commentary and half of it needs to be physical. The Wiki contains a lot on the physical aspects, but there is not much commentary. After the Introduction there should be a Prologue which continues to engage the reader.

18
The video was unsharable and I was fixing my comment, here's another video. NBC followed the jury bus and has been banned from the courtroom


19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: November 15, 2021, 11:00:06 PM »
What's wrong with the notion of booster shots?

Are you fully vaxxed against Tetanus? Whooping cough? Right after your jab for a number of years you can feel confident that you wouldn't get deathly ill but if your last dose was 10 years ago you might need to worry. Same with thus corona virus. Immunity wanes. Right after your first 2 doses you can be confident but leave it too long and you're not in a good place immunity wise. It's how your immune system works. How can you be so old, but be so clueless?

Actually I didn't say anything about the insufficiencies of any other vaccine. If you thought that you would be fully vaccinated from other vaccines you are also a dummie.

I am pointing out that many people thought that they would be fully vaxxed from their shots when in reality they would need to take boosters for the rest of their lives. We can see that you were likely one of these people, considering how triggered you were at that post.

20
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: November 15, 2021, 05:33:12 PM »
lol @ anyone who thought that they were, or ever would be, fully vaxxed


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