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Messages - Tom Bishop

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I don't see how it would be possible to know how perpendicular your string is to the Moon without some sort of perspective clues.

Consider a green cone perpendicular to the camera:

When putting up a string against it, it cuts through it horizontally.

Now we stand at a non-perpendicular position:

The string still cuts straight through. The only way we know that we are not perpendicular is by the perspective changes apparent in the 3D cone and scene. Otherwise it looks like the string cuts straight through the overall shape of the cone. With the Moon, however, we can't see such changes and visual clues (due to FE-EA theory/RE long distance theory).

Here is a better experiment. The next time you see the Moon Tilt Illusion, turn to look at the Moon so that it is in the center of your vision. Take a string and hold it out arms length, as far from your head as you can, against the Moon, keeping the Moon in the center of your vision. You will see the string shoot off into space:

While it might be possible to carefully position your string and camera in such a way that the Moon seems to connect to the Sun, simply holding the string as far as you can away from yourself, while keeping the Moon in the center, will show that the string shoots off into space.


String Experiment

Along the same lines as the above, we are given reference to "string experiments" in which the direction of the Moon's illuminated portion is able to be connected to the sun with a string.

Credit: Bobby Shafto

It has been argued that the string experiment shows that the bodies do actually point at each other. An illusion of some type is occurring and the string experiment "breaks the illusion," demonstrating that the illuminated portion of the Moon is actually pointing at the Sun. If it was not pointing at the Sun then it would not be possible to hold a straight piece of string along that path.

As a reply to this, consider the following scenario:

    You are laying down on the ground on your back, facing upwards, and at the edges of your vision see the top of a pine tree on one side of your vision, and the top of a cabin on the other. You take out a string and connect them together across your vision. Have you proved that the tree is pointing at the cabin?

If you are laying down on the ground on your back and see the Moon pointing upwards on one side of your vision and see the Sun setting at the horizon on the other, a string connecting the two will no more prove that the Moon is pointing at the Sun than it would prove that a tree is pointing at a cabin. When you lay on your back you can see 190 degrees of space1. Just because an object at one side might be pointing "up" at another object at the other side, it doesn't mean that they are pointing at each other.

When wrapped around the observer, this panoramic view of the moon tilt illusion:

Turns into this:

Art Credit: Todd Lockwood

In the above example both the Moon and airplane are on opposite sides of the Sun near point B. The Sun is on the horizon at point A. The Moon and airplane are not actually pointing at the Sun. The string merely connects them two dimensionally across a 'sphere of vision' exactly like the tree-cabin example.

If the airplane was actually pointing at the Sun in the above example, then when looking at the airplane face on, with the Sun on the horizon to your back, you should see the airplane pointed at you and tilted downwards towards the opposite horizon behind you. The same would also apply for the Moon. If the Moon were pointing at the Sun then when you face the Moon its illumined portion should point downwards at the Sun at the horizon behind you, just as an airplane would. Thus, we see that this assertion that the string experiment demonstrates that an illusion is occurring and that bodies are pointing at each other is erroneous. The string experiment may suggest that object positions and straight line paths behave as if they are curving on a dome of some manner, which may provide us with a clue in deciphering the nature of our world, but it does not demonstrate absolute directions of bodies.

A fish-bowl type simulation of the Moon Tilt Illusion can be seen in University of Nebraska-Lincoln's Moon Phases and the Horizon Diagram (.swf Archive) - "Provides a method of learning the correlation between the phase of the moon, the time of day, and the position of the moon in the sky."


1 "our eyes sit in the front of our head, allowing us to see about 60 percent of world in front of us with both eyes, at the compromise that we can only see at maximum about 190 degrees around us (Block 1969; Wolfe 2006)" – Human Spatial Navigation, 2018, p.73

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Occams razor according to Flat Earth
« on: July 05, 2020, 10:07:03 PM »
It seems to me that Occam's Razor would say that if you believe that there is data which seems to contradict one model, then the simplest explanations to that is either the data is wrong or another model may be likelier to be the truth.

Flat Earth Projects / Re: The Atlantic Split
« on: July 05, 2020, 07:03:34 PM »
An interesting pic, from people trying to demonstrate that Africa is larger than normally envisioned.

And another one, showing that Africa and South America are huge compared to other areas:

Of course, it is not specified how "true size" was determined. Astonomical methods may produce bias in the spacing between the lat/long coordinates if the globe assumptions are incorrect.

Flat Earth Media / International Shipping Agent
« on: July 04, 2020, 12:38:16 AM »
This person was featured on Mark Sargent's show, and had some interesting comments regarding International Shipping and the shape of the Earth. He says that the routes do not make the logical RE routes. Oakland to Guam passes through Alaska rather than Hawaii; shipments from South America to the rest of the world route through the US.

Runtime: 9m

Flat Earth Projects / Re: The Atlantic Split
« on: July 04, 2020, 12:21:00 AM »
In an effort of debunking myself, after some difficulty I did mange to find one listed flight route from South America to Africa listed, Sao Paulo to Johannesburg:

When trying to book this flight through a booking company on various dates, the flights I've found seem to want to take me from Sao Paulo to Dubai and then to Johannesburg:

Flat Earth Projects / Re: The Atlantic Split
« on: July 03, 2020, 10:59:31 PM »
A testimonial of someone who sailed from Cape Verdes islands off of Africa (near the north western corner) to Brazil (north eastern corner), took 20 days:

Some interesting quotes:

The passage from the Cape Verdes across the Atlantic to the north-eastern corner of Brazil is pretty much the shortest ocean crossing that one can possibly make – it’s less than half the distance of the passage between the Canary Islands and the Caribbean – but although the miles are far fewer, weather conditions on this route are apt to be somewhat less favourable. Somehow or other you have to get through that infamous belt of calms which girdles the centre of the world. At best, things are slow; at worst you might sit around for days on end, “a painted ship upon a painted ocean”.

We dropped the main and furled the genny, but even under mizzen alone we were still travelling through the water at 7 knots. However, according to the GPS we were only actually making up at 2 knots…!

Bad Reputation

Apparently sailing along areas near the equator in the Atlantic Ocean has a bad reputation in maritime history, attributed to the odd "weather patterns":

The infamous area around the Equator has frustrated and puzzled sailors for centuries


It has a bit of a reputation. In fact, a pretty bad one. The Doldrums holds a distinct place in maritime history, having developed a reputation as a potentially deadly zone which could strand ships for weeks on end, causing them to run out of food and drinking water. In those days, with supplies running low, and scurvy setting in, delerium, starvation and cabin fever could all set in – and getting through this mysterious patch of Atlantic Ocean quickly wasn’t just a matter of first or last place, but life and death.

Flat Earth Projects / Re: The Atlantic Split
« on: July 03, 2020, 10:39:00 PM »

There is a flight website called which provides an easy way to find flight routes. Type in Venezuela to Liberia.

Venezuela to Liberia:

Venezuela to Nigeria:

Curious. Why do Venezuelans have to go to Europe to go to countries near the African equator? If you click on the flight alternatives on the left hand menu, they all make odd flight detours through Europe.

On the Atlantic Split:

Now, if you are in Brazil and want to go to Liberia, you apparently have to make a weird trip to Europe and then backtrack towards Africa:

Quite curious.

Flat Earth Projects / The Atlantic Split
« on: July 03, 2020, 10:32:06 PM »
I am looking into a variant map to the Bi-Polar model, which I call the Atlantic Split. In this variant the split occurs in the Atlantic Ocean rather than the Pacific Ocean.

Link to Bi-Polar Model overview:

I was able to derive a rough draft version the Atlantic Split as generated from an old version of the nullschool webapp:,21.99,115/loc=154.680,-89.951

Now, the continents might not look exactly like that, as this website has limited ways to warp the map. My idea of the Atlantic Split is that the African and South American continents are on the Left and Right sides of the world, with the other landmasses in some configuration in between. Africa or South America might be smaller or less warped in shape than what is depicted. Again, there is limited control over this aid map. The continents South America and Africa should be considered to be blobs on the sides of the map.

At first glance Africa and South America seem quite abnormal, as compared to the ones we see on the Mercator Map. However, consider the Peter's Projection. The Peter's Projection supposedly provides a more accurate depiction of the continents in terms of land mass. The size of Africa and South America are much bigger in this map.

Maps not only represent the world, they shape the way we see it. The revolutionary Peters Projection map presents countries in their true proportion to one another: it has been adopted by the UN, aid agencies, schools and businesses around the world.


The Peters World Map is an Equal Area cylindrical projection with standard parallels at 45 degrees thus resulting in a distortion of shape which is stretched about the equator and squashed towards the poles, but having the great advantage that all countries are correct in size in relation to each other.

So, it is possible that Africa and South America are much larger than normally depicted.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: July 02, 2020, 07:26:37 PM »
Incorrect. The US has always had an eagle for its logo.

The US Marine Logo:

The Nazi eagle has airplane wings:

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 24, 2020, 09:50:35 PM »
Stop being so f*cking selfish about it.

Give me and a bunch of countries billions of dollars for our tech

If you want it so bad, plead with your government to step up to give up the money. You are responsible for your own house and wants. You want it, and America doesn't want it. So it's your responsibility to satisfy your wants. It is not America's responsibility to satisfy your wants. America is already tasked with protecting you with its military. I don't see why America has to support and breastfeed the world on every topic. But hopefully its military support also ends at some point.

Can we drop the dollar?

That's fine with me. You don't have to have the dollar as reserve currency if you don't want to. I don't think America should have to owe anything to anyone. I am certainly not going to whine and cry on an internet forum and tell you what your country should do, or try to insult or degrade your leadership with a three hundred page thread, like some of the crybabies here.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 24, 2020, 08:54:18 PM »
Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
Many people in the US are famously insular and don’t seem to care much what is going on anywhere else. This may blow your mind but in many countries people do care about what’s going on outside their borders, especially when it’s stuff going on in a powerful country like the US which affects the rest of the world.

So yeah, when Trump pulls the US out of the Paris Climate agreement then I have an opinion about that. It might be a good thing for the US economy in the short term but it’s a bad thing for the world in the US in the long term. And contrary to popular belief the US is in the world so that will also be bad for the US.

And I have an opinion about him as a person. I have made that opinion pretty clear. I see almost no redeeming qualities. So I asked you what you see in him. Most of your answer was “I don’t like the alternative”. That’s not an answer.

Had you lived here you would know that the the democratic party was the majority for a long time and infests all levels of government, corporations, and society and directly relates to Trump's rebellious movement. "I don't like the swamp" is a valid answer. The GOP is also a swamp, but that is more like lawful evil versus chaotic evil. Trump's movement is unique and may branch off into its own party someday.

You also say that leaving the Paris Climate agreement was good for America, but bad for everyone else. Why should America do something that's not in its self interest? That agreement had the US giving billions of dollars without oversight to all sorts of countries to develop their green technologies. This example just shows how selfish and greedy you foreigners are, wanting our tax dollars to support the world. America doesn't exist to serve you guys. Use your own money. It is curious that you think that as selfish foreigners you have a qualified opinion on American politics. I don't demand that you serve me with your politics and taxes, and nor do I tell you anything about the leaders you elect. Work on improving your own country so you can use your tax money to support the world.

Umm... I AM an American.

Could have fooled me.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Black Lives Matter
« on: June 24, 2020, 08:24:42 PM »
Here is the article:

DNA is majority European. Her parents are from Latin countries. Someone asked her if she was black when she was 10. Proceeds to self identify as black.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Black Lives Matter
« on: June 24, 2020, 07:47:30 PM »
Racist BLM supporter discovers that she's white.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 24, 2020, 05:42:07 PM »
This is my interpretation:

Rama Set - Lives in Toronto - Hates Trump
AllAroundTheWorld - Lives in Europe - Hates Trump
Tunemi - Also lives in Europe - Hates Trump
Lord Dave - Also lives abroad - Hates Trump

We find a thread filled with people who are not even Americans, constantly spewing hate for a foreign leader.

Sorry, but you don't really live here and consequently don't know what is best for America. You may not have the same problems, or socialist and corporate influence infesting your laws and social norms. You did not grow up in America or with its values. This criticism of Trump is rather tenuous, based on a foreigner's interpretation of however their media and culture wants to display the America-first nationalist President Donald Trump.

I personally do not really give a flip who your leaders are and why they are important for your country at any given time. I don't live there, did not grow up there, and wouldn't know. I don't care about how bad Angela Merkel, or whoever, is. I don't know what's best for Germany. It would be pretty ridiculous if I went to some German forum and constantly complained about her.

If blinking = refraction, then why does the light only blink when the camera was at 5 inches above the surface and not at 12 inches and other higher elevations where refraction would also need to occur? The blinking stops at slightly higher elevations. The other elevations seem to discount that.

Nonetheless, even if there was refraction present, that still would not explain the inherent coincidence.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 24, 2020, 02:33:22 AM »
Quote from: Rama Set
Trump is widely acknowledged by political authorities as a terrible president.  But you encouraged people to think for themselves.  Follow the evidence.  You should take your own advice.  Incidentally Bernie Madoff was widely regarded as a hedge fund wizard.

Bernie Madoff was a hedge fund wizard until someone showed that he was not. But that deception doesn't make Warren Buffet's hedge fund a fraud. You are pleading with false equivalencies.

Quote from: Rama Set
Power and influence are also rewards.  You trying to limit this discussion to only money speaks to a massive blind spot in your thinking.

What greater power or influence does a president have to seek? Is President Trump's presidential power going to be extended if he starts engaging in shady political deals with people wanting an edge in business?

Quote from: timterroo
I didn't get any of this from media propaganda.

And yet I've heard of all of that before, in the form of liberal media opinion pieces.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 24, 2020, 12:04:11 AM »
You complain of people speculating then assert Trump is a billionaire despite there being no public record of his wealth.  You are also speculating.  One doesn't need to speculate about Trump's bankruptcy's as those are a matter of public record.

Trump is widely acknowledged by financial authorities as a billionaire. You are speculating that he is not a billionaire.

Of course he can be bought.  Often greedy people are quite vulnerable to have their greed exploited. Thinking that being a billionaire makes him beyond reproach is about as silly a position as you can hold.

Not really. The paltry sums politicians often compromise their ideals for isn't going to do anything for Trump. When conducting shady dealings there is a risk-reward element which depends on your wealth. Trump doesn't need to be in politics for money, while lifetime politicians do. It is unlikely a billionaire is going to compromise on his core ideals and risk public exposure of quid-pro-quo or bribery for a bit of cash.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 23, 2020, 11:28:04 PM »
>"Trump MIGHT be getting tax breaks based on my personal speculation."

>Trump has "failed businesses" yet is a successful billionaire.

All we see are deliberate and speculative attempts to smear. There is clearly an illogical bias against President Trump. Where did you get your information from, exactly? You guys consistently link to opinion pieces as your source of knowledge, and show an inability to think for yourself. Now try arguing that Trump is bad with the assumption that those opinion pieces you get your information from are biased liars. Can't be done. You are a parrot to what you read, the opinions of others, and instantly believe this propaganda.

You agree, then, that he has no qualifications, nor civic/public service which would suit him to taking up the role of the highest office in the land? He's merely a businessman

Trump is a highly successful businessman; practically a general who commands the executives of his company into success.

Lifetime politicians are not something we want anymore. They tend to be corrupt hacks. After all, who wants to go into politics growing up? Children with egos seeking power. Teenagers who are biased towards socialism and weird extremes and want to "change things". People only rarely go into politics to serve the public and keep and maintain what America's founding fathers already created. The politicians self select and are bad from the start.

Trump is a billionaire and already has enough power to do as he wishes. He cannot be bought, which speaks volumes for his suitability as President.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: June 23, 2020, 07:30:28 PM »
Serious question. Why do you like Trump so much?

- Trump is not a politician. He is a businessman who gave up billions of dollars to drain the swamp.

- Trump is a King David character, perhaps morally ambiguous on the surface, but holds good values and ultimately knows what is right for his country. More like a normal human, rather than a fake politician.

- The Democratic Party were historically anti-Indian rights, pro-slavery, anti-woman's suffrage, pro-segregation, and anti-civil rights. Always on the wrong side of history. Now its the party of rioters and violence. It is generally the party of choice for socialists, criminals in jail, and pedophiles. I could never side with Leftism. I see them as either literal criminals, or sympathetic to criminality, which is almost as bad.

- Since the Democrats are the established party of crime in America, they have billions of dollars in direct support and trillions of dollars in indirect support, from shady corporations and shady persons of all kinds to brainwash you into thinking that something which threatens its interests (draining the swamp) is bad. This is why you think that Orange Man Bad, despite that he was widely loved and praised before he ran for office.

- Democrats have only goals rather than real established values or principles, and will change their views on a whim, to parrot whatever the latest outrage is from their liberal masters. They become righteous protestants in the span of a second to shed fake tears and harp on "When you're a star you do anything. You can grab them by the pussy..." when this was clearly said as a joke in a backstage private setting, and was actually referencing groupies. An objective person can see that "gotcha" is nonsense. If an equally famous person such as Bruce Springsteen or a famous actor said that, the response would have been "yes".

Similar leftist logic and deception is generally inherent in all other criticisms of Trump. The bad people are really the criminals and their sympathizers running this smear campaign, who have an underlying incentive to do so.

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