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Messages - Tom Bishop

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: October 14, 2021, 06:51:25 AM »
Quote from: stack
Here's an interesting one. Rumor has it that the famous Biblical Flat Earther and anti-vaxxer Rob Skiba has passed away. He, as rumored, had covid, developed pneumonia, put on Remdesivir. After a few days he was taken off of Remdesivir, put on a ventilator and placed in a medically-induced coma.  He had been in a coma for the last 40 days. Had a heart attack and died. Again, all rumor.

If all of that is true, the question is whether his is a Covid death or not? More specifically, should it be counted in the Covid death count?

We would need to know all of his chronic or underlying conditions. People who are dying of underlying chronic conditions tend to get things like pneumonia at the end stage of their life.

Ie. - "Pneumonia is a leading cause of death among cancer patients"

But this has been typically classified as a secondary infection rather than the primary cause of death, and not reported with prominence on national mortality statistics. Obviously if someone was dying of cancer they would be prominently listed as a cancer death rather then pneumonia infection. It is only with the changed guidance for Covid-19 that all diagnosis of Covid within 30 or 60 days, even asymptomatic Covid-19, was to be elevated to a primary cause of death and listed prominently in mortality statistics even when the patient was clearly dying of cancer.

In all likelihood Rob Skiba probably had comorbities since in the "Covid deaths" there are an average of four comorbidities, with only about 5% or 6% of deaths which indicated Covid as the only cause according to the CDC:

"For over 5% of these deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned on the death certificate. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 4.0 additional conditions or causes per death."

And every time you have “shown” that it has been patiently explained to you that this is exactly how it works with other diseases.

Incorrect. The methods were changed with COVID-19 guidance.


Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: October 14, 2021, 03:35:25 AM »
COVID may not kill many young people but it killed more American’s than anything else last month:

Yet you have been shown numerous times that they are counting people who died "with" Covid and not of Covid, unlike previous diseases. Your argument is completely illegitimate.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 09, 2021, 06:14:35 PM »
None of that is documented to have happened with those duplicates according to what the auditors are claiming. If there was documentation of this, it wouldn't be a concern. Claiming that this was secretly done and corrected and that incomplete documentation was given to the auditors is a totally invalid response. The auditors were supposed to receive all information. If it wasn't documented then there is no paper trail. The source for your information comes from the defendant themselves, an unreliable source in this context. The auditors are right to question the quality and legitimacy of such a shoddy election.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 09, 2021, 05:24:56 PM »
Quote from: stack
Where's the evidence that duplicates were counted?

The evidence is that he had access to the people who were assessing the election materials and computers and you did not.

Quote from: stack
How come Bennet's "suggestions" didn't make it into the Ninja's report?

Cyber Ninja did put it into the report, and says that these sort of discrepancies add ambiguity into the conclusion:

Hmmm, no mention of duplicates counted. Go figure.

Maybe you should watch Dr. Shiva's presentation again. He identified duplicates that the Maricopa County did not identify and report. You are claiming that the county did not count duplicates that they did not know about.

From that timestamp - "There were 34,448 total images of which 17322 were duplicates, from 17126 voters. This, by the way and we'll get to it, was not reported"

And later on in the presentation:

"Maricopa reported NO Duplicates in the CANVASS Report"

The county did not report it. If the county didn't report it or know about it, how do you know that duplicates were not counted?

Please show exactly where Maricopa identified and accounted for these duplicates. The auditors appear to believe that the duplicates are not being reported by the county that ran the election. If they aren't being reported then it is a tough sell to argue that they aren't being counted.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Terrible Political Memes
« on: October 08, 2021, 07:17:33 PM »

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Ring laser gyros
« on: October 07, 2021, 04:18:40 AM »
Actually, the Wiki page accurately says that those types of devices are looking at rotational seismic phenomena right here -

Not sure why you keep reposting that graph. It's not raw data. As you pointed out earlier, the angular rate on that one is faster other graphs we saw which are uncorrected for latitude and this data is reprocessed and visualized. Other visualizations we saw in this thread have radically different views.

GINGERino is not a regular seismograph, it is a special tool which studies "rotational seismology" -

Seismic shift: GINGERino is deep below these mountains

A laser gyroscope located deep beneath the Gran Sasso mountain in central Italy has made the first deep-underground measurements of the rotational motion that passing seismic waves generate in the Earth’s crust. The ability to make such measurements could boost our understanding of the strain that rocks undergo before an earthquake takes place, say the scientists who carried out the research.

Earthquakes release large amounts of pent-up energy in the form of seismic waves, which propagate in all directions from the quake’s epicentre. When those waves reach the Earth’s surface they can cause the ground to move along one or more orthogonal axes – up and down, back and forth, and side to side. But seismic waves can also generate much smaller rotational motions, in which the ground rotates around one or more of the three axes.

According to Gilberto Saccorotti of Italy’s National Institute for Geophysics and Volcanology (INGV), rotational motion is important to measure for a number of reasons. For one thing, seismologists can determine the speed of a seismic wave – and so better understand the kind of rock it propagates through – by comparing the magnitudes of the rotational and translational motions that it generates. In addition, better measurements of ground rotation during strong earthquakes would allow for more robust building regulations. “Circular motion, like horizontal motion, can be very dangerous,” he says. “Structures haven’t been designed with that in mind but are instead meant to resist vertical forces, i.e. their own weight.”

Frequency shift

Ring-laser gyroscopes, on the other hand, are designed specifically to measure rotational motion. These devices record the very tiny differences in frequency between two laser beams sent in opposites directions around an optical circuit that is fixed rigidly to the ground. The frequency offset reflects the rate at which the ground rotates. Ring lasers in Germany, New Zealand and the US have been detecting earthquakes’ rotational ground movements for about the last two decades, but the fact that these instruments are located at or just below ground level exposes them to disturbances – be they of natural or human origin – that originate close to the Earth’s surface.

In the latest work, Saccorotti and colleagues at the INGV and Italy’s National Institute for Nuclear Physics (INFN) used a ring laser called GINGERino, consisting of four 3.6 m-long sides mounted on a block of granite. Housed 1400 m underground at the Gran Sasso National Laboratory, the device is largely shielded from the tiny variations in air pressure that can trouble ring lasers at shallower depths. It is the forerunner of an experiment called Gyroscopes in General Relativity (GINGER), which will use at least three large ring lasers arranged at right angles to one another to try and measure the very subtle “frame-dragging” effect predicted by Einstein’s general theory of relativity.

Using GINGERino, the INFN-INGV group was able to record a magnitude-seven earthquake that occurred under the Atlantic Ocean during a week of data-taking in June 2015. The researchers say that although their data exhibit a poor signal-to-noise-ratio, they were still able to detect rotational motion generated by the earthquake’s seismic waves in the rock surrounding the lab.

Potential earthquake precursors

According to Saccorotti, the result shows the feasibility of installing a long-term experiment in the Gran Sasso lab – be it GINGER or a single, larger ring laser. Such a device would systematically record rotational ground motions over a two- to four-year period. This would allow the detailed study of the elastic deformation of rock caused by the gradual build-up of energy across a geological fault ahead of an earthquake. “That deformation can include rotational motion, so having a very sensitive device in a low-noise environment opens up interesting possibilities for studying a potential earthquake precursor”, he says, pointing out that Gran Sasso is in one of the most seismically active regions of Italy.

Ulrich Schreiber of the Technical University of Munich, who collaborates with the Italian group, points out that the field of “rotational seismology” is now quite well established, thanks to the availability of improved ring-laser gyroscopes. But he nevertheless praises the latest work. “GINGERino is a prototype instrument that has still to mature a fair bit before reaching its full potential,” he says. “But being able to observe rotational motion from remote earthquakes in a deep-underground laboratory is an important step forward.”

It's a new field of "rotational seismology" which is "able to observe rotational motion from remote earthquakes".

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Ring laser gyros
« on: October 06, 2021, 09:16:50 AM »
It has everything to do with it. Look into relative motion. If you are watching something move, you can't tell whether it is you and perhaps your environment that is moving or whether it is the body is moving. This is extremely basic and and I am surprised that you are having trouble understanding this.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Ring laser gyros
« on: October 06, 2021, 06:01:37 AM »
The problem is that this is an indirect conclusion, rather than a direct one. If you are floating in a featureless environment in outer space and see an object travel past you at a set speed, you generally could not know whether it is you who was moving or whether it was the object that was moving.

Flat Earth Projects / Re: We are your friends from Russia and Europe
« on: October 06, 2021, 03:28:21 AM »
For a future experiment the goal should be to do it with a infrared camera lens so that you can cut through the atmosphere like this author does here in the Wiki, and on his YouTube channel. In his YouTube channel he takes an infrared camera onto an airplane and other high locations and claims to see objects that are further than a Round Earth should allow.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Ring laser gyros
« on: October 06, 2021, 01:29:48 AM »
It says that the seismic waves are rotating, like a Foucault Pendulum:

Earth’s rotation leads to a slow rotation of the transverse polarization of S waves; during the propagation of S waves the particle motion behaves just like a Foucault pendulum.

The device is watching something rotate, and it is assumed to be caused by the rotation of the earth.

Flat Earth Projects / Improve Flat Earth Society TFES Wiki Article
« on: October 06, 2021, 01:18:01 AM »
I'd like to look into improving this page:

This page should double as a history primer for the society.

Some notes:

- Need dates on when Rowbotham started the Zetetic Society and when the UZS was started

- Need more background content on Samuel Shenton and Charles K Johnson

- Need brief summary of major works

- We should distinguish that Rowbotham originated the Monopole model, the Universal Zetetic Society originated the Bi-Polar model, and that our society originated Universal Acceleration and Electromagnetic Acceleration.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: October 02, 2021, 10:43:34 PM »
Why do anti-vaxxers always post YouTube videos?
Who's an anti-vaxxer?

An Anti-Vaxxer is any person who opposes vaccination or laws mandating vaccination. Based on their previous comments opposing mandatory vaccination, both Roundy and AllAroundTheWorld are Anti-Vaxxers who post on this forum.

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Additions to the Library
« on: October 02, 2021, 08:10:27 AM »
16 Emergency Landings Proving Flat Earth by Eddie Alencar

This one is interesting and is used a lot by the wider FE community. Allegedly planes have made emergency landings that make more sense if the planes are traveling according to a Flat Earth map. The sources containing links referencing the landings are at at the end of the book.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 02, 2021, 02:54:29 AM »
Quote from: stack
Where's the evidence that duplicates were counted?

The evidence is that he had access to the people who were assessing the election materials and computers and you did not.

Quote from: stack
How come Bennet's "suggestions" didn't make it into the Ninja's report?

Cyber Ninja did put it into the report, and says that these sort of discrepancies add ambiguity into the conclusion:

Quote from: stack
How come the Ninja's froze out Bennet back in July or so from partaking in the audit?

The "Cyber Ninjas" mess turns into a big problem for GOP: Arizona audit liaison threatens to quit
Arizona audit liaison, Ken Bennet, threatens to resign from post during talk show citing Cyber Ninja ethics concern

Sounds like you are trying to bring up an issue unrelated to what he saw:

The spark behind Bennett's threat to resign—unless, he said, the Senate gave him full control of investigating several remaining aspects of the 2020 vote count—was a series of events that culminated last week that involved Bennett working with an outside group of retired election auditors.

Bennett thinks another audit needs to be done with additional scope:

Bennett said there were serious election administration issues that the review has discovered that needed to be explained and addressed before future elections. Thousands of ballots from members of the military and citizens overseas had not been properly labeled when duplicated (after they came in by e-mail), he said. Some volume of mailed-in ballots that were counted did not have signatures on their outside envelopes and should have been disqualified, he said.

Bennett said that he wanted to investigate these problems and conduct another audit that compared the digital images taken of every ballot by scanners with the county's official spreadsheet of each ballot's votes. The interview concluded with Harris asking Bennett what needed to happen for him to stay on.

"The answer is there are key aspects of the audit that are not even part of the scope of work assigned to Cyber Ninjas," Bennett said. "Some of those other things need to be done independently of Cyber Ninjas, and maybe I can be a coordinator of those other aspects, not done within Cyber Ninjas' realm."

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 01, 2021, 10:38:29 PM »
Really, and where is the evidence that they weren't counted? The source you provided which makes that statement did not have access to the materials or the computers like the audit people did. The AZ Senate's audit liaison, former Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett, made statements suggesting that the duplicate ballots are being counted, and even goes further to say that the serial numbers on the duplicated ballots are either missing or are very very light and printed in an illegible spot over other markings in comparison to normal ballots.


Bennett said that “thousands” of ballots in the duplicate pile had serial numbers “put on by a dot matrix printer, very very light” and there was “none whatsoever on many” ballots. When asked how you would know if ballots are duplicated or not with no serial number, Ken Bennett confirmed that you would NOT know. The stunning revelation provides more substance to President Donald Trump’s assertion that the 2020 election was illegitimate.

If it the system was properly handling duplicates they would be saying that it wasn't a big deal and were properly identified and rectified. However, they are not. It is being brought up as an issue for the AZ Senate. They are suggesting that it is an issue and that the ballots can slip through the system and be processed and that without proper serial numbers you would not know.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 01, 2021, 12:05:53 PM »
In that link it gives possible reasons for a duplicate ballot and then claims without evidence that only one ballot was counted.

"while duplicate envelope images can occur, they only represent one ballot that will be counted."

That's zero evidence, just a statement. What kind of evidence is that?

Dr. Shiva, a paid expert consultant auditor with actual access to the materials and election computers argues that the invalid materials are being processed and counted, causing significant inaccuracies. Who's right?

That link also does not address the signatures. Why would a random sampling of the signatures suddenly become illegible after the election?

From the video Shiva says that invalid materials are getting approved and processed:

At 36:31 he says that one voter sent in three duplicates with blank signature fields and two were approved:

There is clearly something funny going on if one voter can submit three copies of the materials with blank signatures, with two of them getting approved. Not a lot of quality control here.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 01, 2021, 11:43:08 AM »
Quote from: Rama Set
a hand recount increases Biden’s lead

Irrelevant if those ballots are questionable.

could have legitimate explanations.

Really? What's the legitimate explanation to this one about duplicate ballots being counted in the election and an increase of illegible signatures after election day:

Dr. V.A. Shiva Ayyadurai shared the explosive results from his team’s analysis of the Early Advance Ballot (EVB) envelopes as the first presenter at the Arizona Senate hearing on the results of the 2020 election in Maricopa County.

During his presentation, he gave evidence of over 17,000 duplicate votes that were illegally counted in the final certified tally.

When Dr. Shiva refers to “duplicate ballots,” he means “voters sent in 2 or more ballots” that were counted.

According to Dr. Shiva, there was a massive surge of duplicate ballots AFTER the polls closed on election day. Between November 4th and November 9th, “25-30%” of all double votes were received by election officials, eventually getting counted in the final total.

Curious timing, no?

Dr. Shiva and his research team were able to track the timing of the duplicate ballots by looking at the timestamps of all Early Voting Ballots that were received by election officials.

What they found appears to be evidence of coordinated fraud.

To make the data easier to digest, his team built a graph that shows when every early ballot was received, starting on 10/9/2020 – when the first ballot was sent in.

When the researchers layered in the duplicate ballot submissions, the results jump clearly off the screen.

As you can see in the photo below, the orange-colored line representing the ‘duplicate ballots’ breaks away from the baseline total that it had been closely mirroring and skyrockets upward.

Also, notice how there is a slight spike in duplicates ballots at each point where the mail-in count drops – Very odd, it’s almost as if the Maricopa election officials were able to get some free time to find a couple of extras in the printer.

The calculated ‘anomaly’ after election day that Dr. Shiva uncovered doesn’t only include duplicate ballots, it also includes a large increase in the number of ballots that had either no signature (Red line) or a “scribble”(Green line) on the verification envelope.

Keep in mind, the majority of early mail-in ballots were received during the weeks LEADING UP TO election day, the fact that so many came in after polls should be investigated.

To make it even easier for people to visualize the unbelievable flip, Dr. Shiva changed the type of graph and showed how the signed ballots that were arriving in the weeks leading up to the election compared to the ones arriving a few days after – and no surprise, more blatant signs of fraud.

The 17,000+ votes are enough on their own to nullify Biden’s narrow ‘victory’ in Arizona. The State needs to DECERTIFY NOW.

The full video of Dr. Shiva's presentation is here:

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 01, 2021, 10:20:09 AM »
The first three words in the article title is "So Trump was right".
Yes. This is how clickbait works. Has an eye-catching headline and starts by enticing people to read on.
It's a bit embarrassing that you fell for it and then made false claims about it without having even read the article.
And how dishonest of you not to admit it.
Keep squirming though, if you must...

What? The author said it and you are arguing that we must believe that he doesn't mean it? Your arguments are getting more and more absurd on this.

Recall that The Sunday Times commits itself to the IPSO Rules and Regulations and Editor's Code of Practice:

Then, going to the IPSO site:

Inaccurate headlines goes against their regulations. It's not a sensational tabloid. It's the largest newspaper of the British quality press, which we had read was distinguished by its seriousness.

From what I'm reading, the headlines need to be accurate if they want to be a part of this organization. I would suggest you take your complaints to the newspaper or the regulating organization rather than making random and specious accusations of what you think an author "really" means to support your argument.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 01, 2021, 09:23:29 AM »
Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
None of which is mentioned in the Times opinion piece.

Again, he doesn't need to go into the details of the audit for his general statements to include the audit. You have already conceded that his article is a reaction to the audit.

Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
It's clear what he's talking about, it has been explained to you.

No, it's not clear that he is talking about what you want him to talk about. The first four words in the article title is "So Trump was right". This is clearly an endorsement of the things Trump has been saying about the election.

And read the fraudulent postal votes section further on in the article that you pointed out again:

"Whatever the case, that election one year ago was plainly rigged. Not by fraudulent postal votes. But by an affluent elite conspiring, brutally at times, to ensure that the American public heard only one side of the story."

He's not discounting fraudulent postal votes there. See the sentence immediately before that. He is explaining why the election was plainly rigged. The election wasn't "plainly rigged" by fraudulent postal votes. I agree with that. Fraudulent postal votes are not plainly visible to see, and this sentence doesn't even necessitate that he is discounting that there were fraudulent postal votes.

Really, you just need to brush up on your English skills. You got it blatantly wrong.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: October 01, 2021, 09:02:41 AM »
Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
He clearly says he is NOT talking about fraudulent postal votes.

The AZ audit didn't claim to find any fraudulent postal votes. The report is devoid of the word fraud. It claimed that there were extreme inaccuracies, deleted files, abnormal adjudication, and so on. It says the election was unreliable, not fraudulent.

You have admitted as much that the article is about the audit, and if the article is about the audit then it appears to agree that the findings contribute to the shadiness of the election.

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