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Messages - Tom Bishop

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1761
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 25, 2021, 07:43:39 AM »
Actually, the timeline I gave on the fraud route was that fraud might take years to litigate:

Quote
The simple fact is Trump failed to prove fraud in court, either by losing cases or by not bringing them in the first place.  Doesn't matter which, the end result is the same.

Actually, it does matter. You guys have been continuously citing these cases as proof that there was no voter fraud. The cases were not about voter fraud, so your evidence is really nothing at all.

The cases weren't brought because they are technically complex and might take years to litigate, and due to the time sensitive nature it is easy to see why lawyers would want to focus on things like whether a rule change was legal. Such a tactic would have nothing to do with the veracity of voter fraud.

The FBI investigated Bernie Maddoff for six years for his Ponzi Scheme:

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/business/bernie-madoff-fbi-patrick-duffy-paul-roberts-fbi-20181206.html

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He and Special Agent Paul E. Roberts, who trained as an actuary, present regularly to business and fraud investigator conferences about the FBI's six-year-long Madoff investigation.

Tax investigations:

https://www.sambrotman.com/blog/an-overview-of-criminal-tax-matters

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As a result, criminal investigations can take years. There is a lot of fact-finding. There is a lot of collecting information. There are a lot of witness interviews. There are a lot of third parties. The CIs are really trying to build as much of a case as possible so that they can get to the point where once you're caught, you’re caught.

Obviously it would take a while to investigate fraud.

A rule violation, maybe a short amount of time. Fraud, no.

1762
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 25, 2021, 04:09:55 AM »
I'm sure Trump will be occupying the Oval Office any day now, lol

It is almost as if you are ignoring that things over the past months things have ramped up from witness accusations to multiple state forensic audits now, and that you think that the people of America are going to put on a big fight to keep your geezer Joe around.


1763
Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs
« on: May 25, 2021, 02:07:35 AM »
Celestial navigation is allegedly based on the theory that the Round Earth is the center of the universe and that everything is revolving around it.

But I'm not sure if even that model exists. We have tables of the Moon based on historical data, not a mathematical revolving model; at least one that doesn't use epicycles.

The great RE mathematician Isaac Newton used epicycles in his math of the Moon going around the Earth:

https://wiki.tfes.org/Astronomical_Prediction_Based_on_Patterns#Newton.27s_Epicycles

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Newton's Epicycles

Historian of Science William Whewell (bio) informs us that Newton used epicycles for the Moon:

History of the Inductive Sciences (1846)

  “ 3.— The Epicyclical Hypothesis was found capable of accommodating itself to such new discoveries. These new inequalities could be represented by new combinations of eccentrics and epicycles: all the realand imaginary discoveries by astronomers, up to Copernicus, were actually embodied in these hypotheses; Copernicus, as we have said, did not reject such hypotheses; the lunar inequalities which Tycho etected might have boen similarly exhibited; and even Newton36 represents the motion of the moon’s apogee by means of an epicycle. As a mode of expressing the law of the irregularity, and of calculating its results in particular cases, the epicyclical theory was capable of continuing to render great service to astronomy, however extensive the progress of the science might be. It was, in fact, as we have already said, the modern process of representing the motion by means of a series of circular functions. ”

Take a look at this model of the Moon in this paper.

See the illustration on page 600 and the caption in the image, and note that the basic model was "adopted ever since."

Quote
V. THE MANY MOTIONS OF THE MOON

A. The traditional model of the Moon

A plane through the center of the Earth is determined at an inclination g of about 5 degrees with respect to the ecliptic. The Moon moves around the Earth in that plane on an ellipse with fixed semi-major axis a and eccentricity « of about 1/18. The Greek model was quite similar, except that the ellipse was replaced by an eccentric circle.

The plane itself rotates once every 18 years in the backward direction, i.e., against the prevailing motion in the solar system, while keeping its inclination constant. The perigee of the Moon, its point of closest approach to the Earth, makes a complete turn in the forward direction in about nine years.

The following picture (see Fig. 1) emerges: first we fix the direction of the spring equinox or some fixed star near it as the universal reference Q in the ecliptic: counting always from west to east, we determine the angle h from Q to the ascending node, i.e., the line of intersection for the Moon’s orbit with the ecliptic where the Moon enters the upper side of the ecliptic; from there we move by an angle g in the Moon’s orbital plane until we meet the perigee of the Moon; and finally we get to the Moon by moving through the true anomaly f. All these three angles have a double time dependence: linear (increasing for f and g, while decreasing for h) plus various periodic terms that average to 0.



~

D. The evection—Greek science versus Babylonian astrology

The Babylonians knew that the full moons could be as much as 10 hours early or 10 hours late; this is due to the eccentricity of the Moon’s orbit. But the Greeks wanted to know whether the Moon displays the same kind of speedups and delays in the half moons, either waxing or waning. The answer is found with the help of a simple instrument that measures the angle between the Moon and the Sun as seen from the Earth. The half moons can be as much as 15 hours early or late. With the Moon moving at an average speed of slightly more than 308 per hour (its own apparent diameter!), it may be as much as 5° ahead or behind in the new/full moons; but in the half moons, it may be as much as 7°308 ahead or behind its average motion. This new feature is known as evection.

Ptolemy found a mechanical analog for this peculiar complication, called the crank model. It describes the angular coupling between Sun and Moon correctly, but it has the absurd consequence of causing the distance of the Moon from the Earth to vary by almost a factor of 2. In the thirteenth century Hulagu Khan, a grandson of Genghis Khan, asked his vizier, the Persian all-round genius Nasir ed-din al Tusi, to build a magnificent observatory in Meragha, Persia, and write up what was known in astronomy at that time. Ptolemy’s explanation of the evection was revised in the process. In the fourteenth century Levi ben Gerson of Avignon in southern France seems to have been the first astronomer to measure the apparent diameter of the Moon (see Goldstein, 1972, 1997). Shortly thereafter Ibn al-Shatir of Damascus in Syria proposed a model for the Moon’s motion that coincides with the theory of Copernicus two centuries later. The crank model was replaced by two additional epicycles, yielding a more elaborate Fourier expansion in our modern terminology (see Swerdlow and Neugebauer, 1984).

With the improvements of the Persian, Jewish, and Arab astronomers, as well as Copernicus, the changes in the Moon’s apparent diameter are still too large with +/- 10%. As in Kepler’s second law, the Fourier expansion (12) has to include epicycles both in the backward and in the forward direction, in the ratio 3:1.

"The crank model was replaced by two additional epicycles, yielding a more elaborate Fourier expansion in our modern terminology."

"With the improvements of the Persian, Jewish, and Arab astronomers, as well as Copernicus, the changes in the Moon’s apparent diameter are still too large with +/- 10%. As in Kepler’s second law, the Fourier expansion (12) has to include epicycles both in the backward and in the forward direction, in the ratio 3:1."

That epicycle Moon model was used in antiquity before gravity, and was used by Newton with his gravity model, and appears to be still used, judging by the quotes on the Astronomical Prediction Based on Patterns page in our Wiki. So I'm not entirely sure that the revolving model you think exists actually ever did exist. It appears as if they couldn't really get it to work cleanly even before gravity theory.

1764
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 25, 2021, 01:21:35 AM »
If Cyber Ninjas and the auditors in the other states are committing fraud, I can't wait for them to go to jail.

Certainly, the person whining and excuse-making and coming up with conspiracies here without evidence is you.

And yet look who's in the White House, huh?

The last time there was massive Democrat fraud, the Democrat politician also was able to get sworn in, and it also took some time to boot the sitting politician:

https://web.archive.org/web/20201114182126/https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1994-02-20-1994051024-story.html

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In making such a sweeping move, Judge Clarence C. Newcomer of U.S. District Court in Philadelphia did for the Republicans what the election had not: enabled them to regain control of the state Senate, which they lost two years ago.

Judge Newcomer ruled Friday that the Democratic candidate, William G. Stinson, had stolen the election from Bruce S. Marks in North Philadelphia's 2nd Senatorial District through an elaborate fraud in which hundreds of residents were encouraged to vote by absentee ballot even though they had no legal reason -- such as a physical disability or a scheduled trip outside the city -- to do so.

In many instances, according to Republicans who testified at a four-day hearing last week, Democratic campaign workers forged the names of people on dozens of absentee ballots who were living in Puerto Rico, serving time in prison or, in at least one case, had been dead for some time.

"Substantial evidence was presented establishing massive absentee ballot fraud, deception, intimidation, harassment and forgery," Judge Newcomer wrote in a decision made public Friday.

The district, which includes white, black and Hispanic neighborhoods, is overwhelmingly Democratic by registration. Nonetheless, campaign workers testified that widespread voter apathy had prompted them to promote a "new way to vote" to ensure a victory.

At issue is whether the door-to-door solicitation of votes that the Democrats conducted is permissible under the state election code, which says the Philadelphia County Board of Elections "shall deliver or mail" the ballots to a voter.

The city, whose lawyers represented the Board of Elections, contended that the statute was open to broad interpretation, but throughout the hearing Judge Newcomer made it clear that he believed otherwise.

But the two Democrats on the three-member Board of Elections, elected body, testified that they were aware of the voter fraud, had intentionally failed to enforce the election law, and had later tried to conceal their activities by hurriedly certifying the Democratic candidate as the winner.

Judge Newcomer ordered that Mr. Stinson, a former assistant deputy mayor of Philadelphia, be removed from his state Senate office and that Mr. Marks, a lawyer and former aide to U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter, be certified the winner within 72 hours.

"This is extraordinary relief," Judge Newcomer wrote. "However, it is appropriate because extraordinary conduct by the Stinson campaign and the board tainted the entirety of the absentee ballots."

So it is foolhardy to believe that being in power means anything in particular, or that it should have been done between November and January. Unless you have some kind of legal precedent on the record for this kind of thing, I don't see how this can be known.

Obviously it takes time to research, collect data, convince states to do the forensic audits, which they are now doing. It is also clear, too, that the courts aren't going to actually nullify the election without direct and confirmed data proving fraud; and need more than people seeing nefarious things on November 3rd. That was evidence of fraud, certainly, but forensic audits by the states seal the deal, and can be repeated if necessary. A forensic audit opens the door to more. The court cases and effort wasn't primarily about fraud in the first few months for the reason that those cases take time, but now they will be about the fraud.

I am also under the impression that the states can still decertify on their own without it even needing to go to court, which may not affect the Congressional certification, but gives more ammo to the eventual result.

You were disillusioned with the idea that being in power means that he won it for good, sorry.

1765
Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs
« on: May 25, 2021, 12:58:20 AM »
I am of the belief that RE geometry does not truly work. The Wiki explores that. My best evidence is that the RE scientists admit that various parts of RE don't work or that the data suggests something else; and they are not misquoted. When you put it all together RE doesn't work. All the Wiki does is put it together and cite with minimal commentary, to say the things they can't.

FE has mysteries, contradicting models, and much to be explored, certainly, but there is a zero dollar research budget there and relies on research that can be found online, which is quite limited when you are trying to find some specific things.

ICBMs are more of an unknowable quantity that we just have to trust the Nazis and War Department on. If you want to trust them, fine with me. I will opt to explore the possibility that they are nefarious.

1766
Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs
« on: May 24, 2021, 10:34:11 PM »
It wasn't only Von Braun, Operation Paperclip involved many Nazis:

https://www.aish.com/ci/s/Operation-Paperclip-The-Truth-about-Bringing-Nazi-Scientists-to-America.html

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On July 6, 1945, the US Joint Chiefs of Staff issued a top-secret memorandum that was so explosive it was never even shown to President Truman. Titled “Exploitation of German Specialists in Science and Technology in the United States”, it outlined a program for “procurement, utilization and control of specialists” – in other words, a plan to recruit Nazi weapons scientists and bring them to the United States. The Military Intelligence of the War Department, a unit known as G-2, was given control of the program.

It was a plan conducted in secret, that not even the President knew about.

Another Nazi, Arthur Rudolph:

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When he was granted entry to the US under Operation Paperclip, Rudolph was described by American officials in Germany as an “ardent Nazi”. He’d personally overseen slave labor and been present when prisoners were executed. West German and American officials classified him as a war criminal. Yet these accusations were quietly erased from his official file, and Rudolph worked for NASA.

In the 1960s, Rudolph became a key engineer at the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, managing teams of scientists working on the Saturn 5 rocket that in 1969 launched the Apollo rocket in the first manned flight to the moon.

So it's not only the director; in the above we see that we have a Nazi managing teams that worked on the Saturn V.

Clearly, when you are trying to get knowledge from captured enemy Nazis you should put them in direct management of your critical rocket programs rather than a consulting role.

Many were brought to the US:

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In total, about 1,600 Nazi scientists were brought to the US under Operation Paperclip, as well as their families. They evaded justice and in many cases were able to erase all mention of their Nazi pasts in their official biographies. For most of these scientists, justice never caught up and many died in America, seemingly innocent workers whose neighbors and friends and coworkers never knew the gruesome secrets in their pasts.

Maybe America isn't such an upstanding country after all:

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For years, Nazis “were indeed knowingly granted entry” to the United States the OSI concluded. “America, which prided itself on being a safe haven for the persecuted, became – in some small measure – a safe haven for persecutors as well.”

I guess we have to trust literal Nazis and the War Department on this one. Think what you will, but I have a hard time trusting the Nazis and the War Department on anything.

1767
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 24, 2021, 08:27:20 PM »
If Cyber Ninjas and the auditors in the other states are committing fraud, I can't wait for them to go to jail.

Certainly, the person whining and excuse-making and coming up with conspiracies here without evidence is you.

1768
These ships seem to have had trouble: https://wiki.tfes.org/Sea_Travel_in_the_South

I'm curious, Tom. In the wiki page there is a quote from Rowbotham's Zetetic Cosmogony which in turn cites W J J Spry's Challenger. Rowbotham claims that the Spry book states the distance from the Cape of Good Hope to Melbourne to be 7637 miles. I've looked at the Spry book (http://www.19thcenturyscience.org/HMSC/HMSC-Reports/1878-Spry/htm/doc.html) and I can't find any mention of that distance. All I can determine is that Challenger's routing between the two places was far from direct - they seemed to venture as far south as the Antarctic. How has Rowbotham come up with that figure?

Robotham isn't the author of Zetetic Cosmogony. And your problem is that you are expecting us to believe that you read that entire non-searchable book in that link full of jpegs since I posted the link yesterday. You should have waited at least a week or two to make it more believable.

1769
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 24, 2021, 07:59:21 PM »
Yes, it is unfortunate that all of these errors primarily affect Republican candidates.  ::)

Awww muffin. Losing is hard. I understand.

Your post reminded me of this fat guy hanging around outside of the Arizona audit site.

https://archive.is/kEW3X



One thing is for sure from that libby article:

Quote
“We’ve changed course,” Stephen Richer, the current county recorder who unseated Fontes in the last election, told me of the local Republican response.

That course correction appears to have come too late. Up close in Arizona, it’s clear that the Cyber Ninjas are doing exactly what their CEO, Doug Logan, has accused election officials of doing: miscounting the 2020 election. If and when that new and inaccurate result is made public as part of an official audit report, local leaders believe the consequences will be grave.

“I think a small mushroom cloud will go up over Maricopa County if the Cyber Ninjas report that Donald Trump really was the winner of the election,” Richer says.

Cyber Ninjas is acting as an official arm of the State. A report like from a public auditor that means someone's going to jail, on either side.

1770
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 24, 2021, 07:38:00 PM »
Yes, it is unfortunate that all of these errors primarily affect Republican candidates.  ::)

1771
Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs
« on: May 24, 2021, 07:00:40 PM »
On NASA Marshall Space Flight Center director Wernher von Braun -

A survivor's account from Wernher von Braun, the SS, and Concentration Camp Labor: Questions of Moral, Political, and Criminal Responsibility:

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Like the good Nazi he was, he immediately started shouting that it was sabotage, when just at that point VON BRAUN arrived accompanied by his usual group of people. Without even listening to my explanations, he ordered the Meister to have me given 25 strokes in his presence by an SS [man] who was there. Then judging the strokes weren't sufficiently hard, he ordered that I be flogged more vigorously, and this order was then diligently carried out, which caused much hilarity in the group, and following this flogging, VON BRAUN made me translate that I deserved much more, that in fact I deserved to be hanged, which certainly would be
the fate of the "Mensch" (good-for nothing) I was.

A quote from an article called The Rocket Man’s Dark Side, published by TIME:

Quote
Indeed, some 20,000 died at Dora, from illness, beatings, hangings and intolerable working conditions. Workers, scantily clad, were forced to stand at attention in the biting cold during roll calls that went on for hours. Average survival time in the unventilated paint shop was one month. One prisoner told of being bitten on his legs by guard dogs. Presumably to test the effectiveness of a new medication, one of his legs was treated, the other allowed to fester and deteriorate.

For reasons best known to von Braun, who held the rank of colonel in the dreaded Nazi SS, the prisoners were ordered to turn their backs whenever he came into view. Those caught stealing glances at him were hung. One survivor recalled that von Braun, after inspecting a rocket component, charged, "That is clear sabotage." His unquestioned judgment resulted in eleven men being hanged on the spot. Says Gehrels, "von Braun was directly involved in hangings."

Hangings were commonplace, and Dora inmates remember von Braun arriving in the morning with an unidentified woman, having to step between bodies of dead prisoners and under others still hanging from a crane. These were not ordinary hangings, Gehrels says, "not hanging that breaks the neck of the prisoner, but they were slowly choked to death with a kind of baling wire around their neck."

1772
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 24, 2021, 06:44:46 PM »
NH Audits:

https://worthypolitics.com/breaking-exclusive-new-hampshire-auditors-with-explosive-discovery-a-machine-used-on-election-day-counted-only-28-percent-of-the-votes-for-republican-candidates/

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New Hampshire Auditors With EXPLOSIVE Discovery: ‘A Machine Used On Election Day, Counted Only 28 Percent Of The Votes For Republican Candidates’

Election auditors in Windham, New Hampshire, just revealed that some of their latest findings are “large enough to account for discrepancies” in the November 3 election results for four state representative seats.

They say they uncovered “experimental confirmation that if the contest is undervoted, a fold through a vote target can create a vote.”

“Something we strongly suspect at this juncture, based on various evidence, is that in some cases, fold lines are being interpreted by the scanners as valid votes,” Mark Lindeman stated, a man who is part of the audit team.

Harri Hursti, another auditor, posted on Twitter that testing proved folded ballots were misinterpreted by machines.

“Test decks proved that foldings across a vote targets is misinterpreted as additional phantom votes or subtracts votes due to false overvotes,” he wrote.

The audit started on May 11, and auditors finished the hand recount on May 21.

AccuVote rejected to give a comment about the audit authorization. The AccuVote machines’ intellectual property is owned by Dominion Voting Systems.

The audit team additionally said that more issues could be involved besides folded ballots being misinterpreted.

“The fold effect is large enough to account for discrepancies, but might not be all that’s going on,” the team revealed.

“75 folded ballots voted straight Republican. Only 48 votes recorded for them. Folds generated overvotes. This is a machine used on Election Day [for] most absentee ballots,” they added.

Another machine was found to have “an even more dramatic problem” by the auditors, who said that only 28 percent of the votes for Republican candidates were counted.

“The work is not completed yet. While the folding seems to be a strong contributor it clearly is not the only factor,” Hursti said on Sunday. “For example, we have observed vastly different error rates on two machines processing the same ballots. Work continues”

Quotes come from Windham NH Auditors: https://twitter.com/WAuditors

1773
Science & Alternative Science / Re: FE and ICBMs
« on: May 24, 2021, 03:48:52 PM »
Quote
V-2s in WW2 certainly existed, works fine on FE, not precision guided and short range, so earth curve doesn't matter. Starting in 1946, Werner Von Braun at White Sands and the USSR started improving the V-2

Yes, lets all trust a Nazi war criminal who was protected from prosecution by the military to boast claims for its own military space weapons that everyone desperately wanted at the time for national security. Wonderful source there.

1774
Flat Earth Theory / Re: FE and artillery
« on: May 24, 2021, 03:28:56 PM »
Watch the first video from 2:00 to 3:30. After the test round was fired he does not say that the adjustments were made based on earth curvature/rotation calculations when the Pacific Fleet Admiral was standing behind him for the demonstration. Adjustments were made by the offset of the test round. Artillery does not make first round hits, and requires adjustment.

See: https://wiki.tfes.org/Coriolis_Effect#Artillery

Artillery is not accurate. Calculations for Coriolis may be applied in the initial firing table based on theory, but the guns are nonetheless always inaccurate and adjustments are required.

1775
Quote from: Rama Set
There is an obvious and terrible flaw in this logic.  Literally every successful company could not exist without a job market.  Once your philosophy can actually incorporate reality, it will be worth talking about.

I didn't say anything about abolishing the job market. Obviously the innovators of society need a pool of people focused on living wages and who want to do repetitive tasks.

You are clearly one of the unmotivated fellows. So my advice is to keep on truckin', cross your fingers, and hope that your situation will change.

1776
It's an edited TV show.  It isn't evidence of anything to do with how business works in the real world.

Wrong. The people appear on the show and the business is often already making sales. They are not lying about that.

That's what you're supposed to do to become successful. Develop a skill, service, or product that society values; not go into a "job market". That's literally the difference between the rich and poor, and why they exist. So please do not complain about not becoming successful while working at local book shop chain store.

1777
MFW when Tom thinks Shark Tank is a good sample of the modern job market.

No, it's not a good sample because a lot of people don't need venture capital to grow, and can qualify for loans based on the business revenue.

But it's public evidence that twenty four year olds can do pretty well, and that companies want that ingenuity. You can either do that or you can continue to be disillusioned that you will have a wonderful life by believing in the system and doing what everyone else is doing.

Your first mistake is to believe that there is a system that wants you to be successful.

Your second mistake is to believe that the right to take out a thirty year mortgage and live in a home owned by the bank means that you are successful.

1778
You didn't answer the question. Do you think we've gotten better at high seas navigation since 150+ years ago?

I don't think things have changed that much in regards to accuracy and speed, no.

On navigation:

https://books.google.com › books ›
The Globalization of Knowledge in History

"Celestial navigation as practiced by the military was not perfected until the invention of the chronometer at the end of the 18th century."

Lowtech Magazine: https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2008/01/satellite-nav-1.html

"More than two centuries ago, it was possible to very accurately pinpoint your position on earth by means of 'satellites'.

Man has navigated across the globe by means of satellites for thousands of years – however, until the mid twentieth century, these were not GPS-satellites, but stars. In reality, the sun and the stars aren’t satellites of the Earth, but celestial navigation is based on a precopernican world view (the earth was believed to be the centre of the universe). This may sound a little outdated, but this system was perfected to such an extent that in the second half of the eighteenth century it was almost as accurate as the present-day GPS. Moreover, it was much more robust."

On cruise ship speeds:

From a 2021article: "The average speed of a cruise ship is 18 to 22 knots (20 to 25 miles per hour). The maximum speed of a cruise ship is around three knots faster than its average cruising speed."

From a CNN article on the Titanic: "At the time, the RMS Titanic was the largest passenger ship afloat. The ship's length was 882 feet, 9 inches, and it weighed 46,328 tons. Its top speed was 23 knots."

1779
You'd think nothing has changed since the 1890s with respect to how we can navigate the oceans.  SMH.

Seeing as you have not provided any ship logs, I don't see how you can confidently assume anything.

Umm, your references are from 1741, 1823, 1839, 1845, 1886, 1891, 1898. Here’s what shipping/sailing the high seas looks like literally today, 5/23/2021:



I think we’ve gotten a smidge better at this whole navigation business than a 150+ years ago. Wouldn’t you say?

I don't see any ship logs. You've only shown the existence of ships.

1780
You'd think nothing has changed since the 1890s with respect to how we can navigate the oceans.  SMH.

Seeing as you have not provided any ship logs, I don't see how you can confidently assume anything.

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