[Kangaroony]

I've checked the Wiki, and couldn't find any mention of accredited scientists (of the era)
who were actually involved in the formation of and/or operations of the Society.  The only
mention, by name, of anybody connected with it was Samuel Birley Rowbotham who was
merely a preacher, and who had no scientific qualifications, despite falsely styling himself
as Dr. Rowbotham.

In fact, Rowbotham's original FE map from around 1860 still forms the basis of current FE
maps—with virtually no amendments since that time, despite massive advances in the
sciences, with a commensurate understanding of the Earth's exact geometry and its relation
to the sun and the rest of our solar system.



So my question is:  Apart from the dubious Rowbotham, what were the names of its other
board and/or governing members?  Likewise, who formed the board of its 1956 iteration, the 
International Flat Earth Research Society?  Were its founders, William Shenton and William
Mills technologists—of any profession.  Or just fanciful dreamers?

And why was the Universal Zetetic Society so shrouded in mystery?

[Dr David Thork]

The only
mention, by name, of anybody connected with it was Samuel Birley Rowbotham who was
merely a preacher, and who had no scientific qualifications, despite falsely styling himself
as Dr. Rowbotham.

False.

Rowbotham was a Dr twice over. He was a doctor in that he was a qualified physician ... and he was also a doctor in that he had a PhD from the University of Edinburgh for his work on the effects of Phosphorus on the human brain. From that he invented a soft drink that he called Dr Birley's Phosphorus Tonic which was a fore runner for Dr Pepper, (They ripped his recipe off after his death). He used the money from his sales of this tonic to found the society and died a very rich man indeed. I've done a large amount of research myself into where Rowbotham might have got the human brains he needed at Edinburgh University during that time, and they undoubtedly had to come from Burke and Hare.

But hey, believe the idle drivel that Christine Garwood wrote instead if you like. She's a terrible old hack that did very little research before writing her book. Consequently she gets most things wrong.

[stack]

The only
mention, by name, of anybody connected with it was Samuel Birley Rowbotham who was
merely a preacher, and who had no scientific qualifications, despite falsely styling himself
as Dr. Rowbotham.

False.

Rowbotham was a Dr twice over. He was a doctor in that he was a qualified physician ... and he was also a doctor in that he had a PhD from the University of Edinburgh for his work on the effects of Phosphorus on the human brain. From that he invented a soft drink that he called Dr Birley's Phosphorus Tonic which was a fore runner for Dr Pepper, (They ripped his recipe off after his death). He used the money from his sales of this tonic to found the society and died a very rich man indeed. I've done a large amount of research myself into where Rowbotham might have got the human brains he needed at Edinburgh University during that time, and they undoubtedly had to come from Burke and Hare.

But hey, believe the idle drivel that Christine Garwood wrote instead if you like. She's a terrible old hack that did very little research before writing her book. Consequently she gets most things wrong.

- What makes you think Garwood did very little research?
- What makes you think Dr. Pepper ripped off Rowbotham?

As in, what's your evidence for these claims?

Here's a neat pamphlet regarding Birley Elixirs from back in the day. Seems pretty snake-oil salesman-y to me:


https://archive.org/details/b30470961/page/4/mode/2up

[Dr David Thork]

- What makes you think Garwood did very little research?

I've read her book. Its shit and full of absolute fantasies.

- What makes you think Dr. Pepper ripped off Rowbotham?

We compared the recipies from Dr Birleys and the original Dr Pepper. They are almost identical ... but Birley precedes Dr Pepper by some years.

As in, what's your evidence for these claims?

The recipes .

Here's a neat pamphlet regarding Birley Elixirs from back in the day. Seems pretty snake-oil salesman-y to me:


https://archive.org/details/b30470961/page/4/mode/2up

All soft drinks were snake oily back then. This is before Coca Cola (also derived from the same phosphoric acid base as Dr Birley's). They were sold in a chemists and marketed as a cure all. But they were basically phosphoric acid, tartaric acid and a shit ton of sugar so that it doesn't taste vile.

Dr Birley's recipe is as follows
Sugar (partly as " invert sugar ") ... 74 parts
Tartaric acid ... ... ... ... 1.15
Phosphoric acid ... ... ... 0.07 part
Alcohol ... ... ... trace
Water to ... ... ... ... 100 fluid parts

Later these products would be carbonated as carbonation gave drinkers a sense that the drink was full of vitality. It is decades and decades before everyone realises they are junk food.

There is a book here on his tonic.
https://wellcomecollection.org/works/b92wbkxn
Maybe an admin should add it to our library?

Oh, and some Dr Pepper from back in the day


Dr Birley died in 1884. Dr Pepper is 'invented' in 1885 marketed in the exact same way. 

[Tom Bishop]

A number of doctors at the time agreed that phosphorous had apparent health benefits.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Samuel_Rowbotham

Phosphorous has a rich history. Throughout the 1800's higher doses of phosphorous was closely studied by the medical community for its medicinal benefits. Phosphorous was said to be beneficial and curative for a number of ailments.

Neuralgia

From a medical text: Phosphorous in the Treatment of Nerualgia (1875) in Transactions of the American Neurological Association, Volume 1, we find that Phosphorous was highly beneficial for treating Neuralgia:

  “ Compared with the whole range of diseases in which phosphorus is said to have been tested, the list of affections in which it has been proven to be benef‌icial that I have to offer covers a narrow f‌ield.

In the relief of the cruel pains to which the cranial nerves are so commonly subject, and in the cure of the neuralgic condition itself, I have found phosphorus deserving of all the praise that has been bestowed upon it. Its curative effect upon the pure neuralgias, especially of the trigeminus, almost establishes its right to the title of a specif‌ic against this particular affection. (A glance at the condensed table of results will show, without the necessity of repetition, the number of cases of trifacial or trigeminal neuralgia, etc., treated, whether complicated or uncomplicated, and the result.) In the large number of these trigeminal cases, the cure or relief followed the administration of the drug very speedily, often in twenty-four to forty-eight hours, and the same remark applies to the cases of cervico-occipital neuralgia. ”

A list of cases appears here

Cholera

Phosphorous has also been used to treat Cholera, producing success in even "advanced stages of Cholara, usually regarded as hopeless". From Materia Medica and Therapeutics (1857) on p.649 we see:

  “ Phosphorus has been employed successfully by an English physician, in the advanced stage of cholera, usually regarded as hopeless. In 1833 he published his experience with this medicine in the London Lancet, and in the same journal for February, 1850, he reiterates the same views. His reliance has been chief‌ly on the following prescription:

R.—Phosphor. ӡSS;
Cer. alb. ӡSS.
With the aid of enough water to avoid combustion, rub these articles well together, divide the mass into ten pills, which should be kept in a small bottle containing pure water.

In far-advanced cases, these pills were the only reliable medicine. One was given every ten minutes, followed by a little water. Three pills usually sufficed to arrest the cramps, the vomiting and purging. In milder cases, the f‌irst medicine given was as follows:—

R.—Nit. acid fort., from three to f‌ive drops;
Tinct. opii, four to eight drops;
Syrup croci, a drachm;
Aquæ, an ounce and a half.

Mix for a draught, which very frequently answered the end in view. If this failed, the pills were administered as above stated.

Some six or eight cases are detailed to show the value of this practice. (See London Lancet, February, 1850.) ”

Fevers, Delerium, Tremors

In Materia Medica and Therapeutics Dr. Mitchell relays the following accounts:

  “ A considerable number of cases reported by Dr. Wolff, in 1793, would seem to show the good effects of phosphoric ether in low fevers attended with delirium, tremors, feeble pulse, petecchiæ, &c. Five drops of a very strong solution were given every three hours. The pulse improved after a few doses had been given, and equable heat pervaded the system, a pleasant moisture covered the skin, and the delirium subsided. Much testimony of a similar nature could be adduced; and there can be no doubt that salutary results have followed in judicious hands. It is true, however, that much mischief was apparent, as the consequence of the indiscriminate employment of the article, in the days of its greatest celebrity. ”

Overdose Risk

Phosphorous research by the medical community was possibly discontinued because of its poisonous effects when abused:

From the Materia Medica and Therapeutics section titled Phospherous A Poison we see:

  “ A French chemist determined to test the power of phosphorus in his own person, and took a grain, with a good deal of sugar, for his f‌irst dose. On the next day he tried two grains, and on the next, three. Violent vomiting soon came on, with inf‌lammation of the bowels, delirium, spasms, &c., and although vigorous measures were adopted, he perished, a victim of his own folly. ”

Further Reading

Phosphorus: Its Claims as a Therapeutic Agent by Wm. Mason Turner, B. Ph: M.D.

[stack]

- What makes you think Garwood did very little research?

I've read her book. Its shit and full of absolute fantasies.

That's an opinion, not evidence.

- What makes you think Dr. Pepper ripped off Rowbotham?

We compared the recipies from Dr Birleys and the original Dr Pepper. They are almost identical ... but Birley precedes Dr Pepper by some years.

As in, what's your evidence for these claims?

The recipes .

All colas have a similar ingredients. One thing Rowbotham missed was dosing the elixir with a bump of cocaine. And yeah, a bunch were advertised as wellness drinks. That doesn't mean there was any less quackery involved. For a "Dr" to say his elixir keeps pretty much all illnesses at bay is, well, quackery.

[Tom Bishop]

All colas have a similar ingredients. One thing Rowbotham missed was dosing the elixir with a bump of cocaine. And yeah, a bunch were advertised as wellness drinks. That doesn't mean there was any less quackery involved. For a "Dr" to say his elixir keeps pretty much all illnesses at bay is, well, quackery.

Actually, he never said it was a cure-all, and mixed it with other medicaments to enhance their qualities. He was providing multiple products of different compositions, not just claiming that phosphorous can do it all.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ZSTOAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA395&dq=Dr.+Birley+Phosphorus&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUhoOK-bfjAhVkhOAKHaL6CKo4HhDoAQgpMAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

  “ Birley's Preperations—More than forty years ago Dr. Samuel Birley advocated the use of free phosphorus in the treatment of disease. He did not consider it the “cure all,” but by judicious combination of other medicaments with phosphorus as the basis, he pretty nearly exhausted the more active members of the materia medica. Messrs. Gordon, Murray & Co., of 17 Castle Street, Holborn, E.C., are carrying out this theory, and have placed on the market no fewer than twenty different kinds of syrups of phosphorus—plain, ironised, magnesian, hepatitic, and so on—and are bringing them before the public in a forcible manner. All have their special uses, and have been for many years used in private practice. The plain syrup is an elegant preparation of free phosphorus in which the nauseous taste is fully disguised. ”

[Dr David Thork]

- What makes you think Garwood did very little research?

I've read her book. Its shit and full of absolute fantasies.

That's an opinion, not evidence.

Her book is the evidence. Being as you haven't read it, my opinion is all you've been bothered to find out. Either accept it or read the book for yourself.

All colas have a similar ingredients.

Correct! And Dr Birley's is the first cola. I have found nothing that pre-dates it. He basically pioneered the soft drinks industry, dictated how it would be marketed (as medicine) and made an absolute fortune. A smart guy, I think you will agree.

One thing Rowbotham missed was dosing the elixir with a bump of cocaine.

He wasn't a drug pusher. You have to wait 30 years for the coca cola company to do that.

And yeah, a bunch were advertised as wellness drinks. That doesn't mean there was any less quackery involved. For a "Dr" to say his elixir keeps pretty much all illnesses at bay is, well, quackery.

Pretty easy to say 150 years later. At the time his research was ground breaking and his medicine revered.

Anyway, we are going off topic. Dr Rowbowtham was most definitely a doctor.

[stack]

- What makes you think Garwood did very little research?

I've read her book. Its shit and full of absolute fantasies.

That's an opinion, not evidence.

Her book is the evidence. Being as you haven't read it, my opinion is all you've been bothered to find out. Either accept it or read the book for yourself.

I read it 2 years ago. Very compelling.

All colas have a similar ingredients.

Correct! And Dr Birley's is the first cola. I have found nothing that pre-dates it. He basically pioneered the soft drinks industry, dictated how it would be marketed (as medicine) and made an absolute fortune. A smart guy, I think you will agree.

A smart marketer does automatically make for a smart Doctor.

One thing Rowbotham missed was dosing the elixir with a bump of cocaine.

He wasn't a drug pusher. You have to wait 30 years for the coca cola company to do that.

Fair point. But he was a pusher of an elixir that he claimed would keep all ailments at bay. Didn't he die of some infection he got from falling out of a carriage? His elixirs didn't seem to help.

And yeah, a bunch were advertised as wellness drinks. That doesn't mean there was any less quackery involved. For a "Dr" to say his elixir keeps pretty much all illnesses at bay is, well, quackery.

Pretty easy to say 150 years later. At the time his research was ground breaking and his medicine revered.

Revered by whom?

Anyway, we are going off topic. Dr Rowbowtham was most definitely a doctor.

That moniker at that time doesn't automatically give him credibility as such especially considering he became wealthy at the hand of a "cure all" cola.

[Tom Bishop]

Fair point. But he was a pusher of an elixir that he claimed would keep all ailments at bay.

Incorrect. He actually provided multiple medical products of different compositions, not a single one which was purported to remedy all ailments, and thought that phosphorous was not a cure all:

Actually, he never said it was a cure-all, and mixed it with other medicaments to enhance their qualities. He was providing multiple products of different compositions, not just claiming that phosphorous can do it all.

https://books.google.com/books?id=ZSTOAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA395&dq=Dr.+Birley+Phosphorus&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUhoOK-bfjAhVkhOAKHaL6CKo4HhDoAQgpMAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

  “ Birley's Preperations—More than forty years ago Dr. Samuel Birley advocated the use of free phosphorus in the treatment of disease. He did not consider it the “cure all,” but by judicious combination of other medicaments with phosphorus as the basis, he pretty nearly exhausted the more active members of the materia medica. Messrs. Gordon, Murray & Co., of 17 Castle Street, Holborn, E.C., are carrying out this theory, and have placed on the market no fewer than twenty different kinds of syrups of phosphorus—plain, ironised, magnesian, hepatitic, and so on—and are bringing them before the public in a forcible manner. All have their special uses, and have been for many years used in private practice. The plain syrup is an elegant preparation of free phosphorus in which the nauseous taste is fully disguised. ”

[stack]

Fair point. But he was a pusher of an elixir that he claimed would keep all ailments at bay.

Incorrect. He actually provided multiple medical products of different compositions, not a single one which was purported to remedy all ailments, and thought that phosphorous was not a cure all:

Marketing says otherwise:

[Tom Bishop]

What you quoted does not state that phosphorous can resolve all nervous system related impairments.

If I say that apples rot from bacteria it doesn't mean that my product that delays or prevents rot is going to be effective towards all types of bacteria or all rot. The statements have nothing to do with each other.

[stack]

What you quoted does not state that phosphorous can resolve all nervous system impairments.

Pretty much the calling card of snake oil.

[Tom Bishop]

Not too surprising. A lot of doctors were claiming that phosphorous was effective for a number of ailments.

https://wiki.tfes.org/Samuel_Rowbotham

Phosphorous has a rich history. Throughout the 1800's higher doses of phosphorous was closely studied by the medical community for its medicinal benefits. Phosphorous was said to be beneficial and curative for a number of ailments.

Neuralgia

From a medical text: Phosphorous in the Treatment of Nerualgia (1875) in Transactions of the American Neurological Association, Volume 1, we find that Phosphorous was highly beneficial for treating Neuralgia:

  “ Compared with the whole range of diseases in which phosphorus is said to have been tested, the list of affections in which it has been proven to be benef‌icial that I have to offer covers a narrow f‌ield.

In the relief of the cruel pains to which the cranial nerves are so commonly subject, and in the cure of the neuralgic condition itself, I have found phosphorus deserving of all the praise that has been bestowed upon it. Its curative effect upon the pure neuralgias, especially of the trigeminus, almost establishes its right to the title of a specif‌ic against this particular affection. (A glance at the condensed table of results will show, without the necessity of repetition, the number of cases of trifacial or trigeminal neuralgia, etc., treated, whether complicated or uncomplicated, and the result.) In the large number of these trigeminal cases, the cure or relief followed the administration of the drug very speedily, often in twenty-four to forty-eight hours, and the same remark applies to the cases of cervico-occipital neuralgia. ”

A list of cases appears here

Cholera

Phosphorous has also been used to treat Cholera, producing success in even "advanced stages of Cholara, usually regarded as hopeless". From Materia Medica and Therapeutics (1857) on p.649 we see:

  “ Phosphorus has been employed successfully by an English physician, in the advanced stage of cholera, usually regarded as hopeless. In 1833 he published his experience with this medicine in the London Lancet, and in the same journal for February, 1850, he reiterates the same views. His reliance has been chief‌ly on the following prescription:

R.—Phosphor. ӡSS;
Cer. alb. ӡSS.
With the aid of enough water to avoid combustion, rub these articles well together, divide the mass into ten pills, which should be kept in a small bottle containing pure water.

In far-advanced cases, these pills were the only reliable medicine. One was given every ten minutes, followed by a little water. Three pills usually sufficed to arrest the cramps, the vomiting and purging. In milder cases, the f‌irst medicine given was as follows:—

R.—Nit. acid fort., from three to f‌ive drops;
Tinct. opii, four to eight drops;
Syrup croci, a drachm;
Aquæ, an ounce and a half.

Mix for a draught, which very frequently answered the end in view. If this failed, the pills were administered as above stated.

Some six or eight cases are detailed to show the value of this practice. (See London Lancet, February, 1850.) ”

Fevers, Delerium, Tremors

In Materia Medica and Therapeutics Dr. Mitchell relays the following accounts:

  “ A considerable number of cases reported by Dr. Wolff, in 1793, would seem to show the good effects of phosphoric ether in low fevers attended with delirium, tremors, feeble pulse, petecchiæ, &c. Five drops of a very strong solution were given every three hours. The pulse improved after a few doses had been given, and equable heat pervaded the system, a pleasant moisture covered the skin, and the delirium subsided. Much testimony of a similar nature could be adduced; and there can be no doubt that salutary results have followed in judicious hands. It is true, however, that much mischief was apparent, as the consequence of the indiscriminate employment of the article, in the days of its greatest celebrity. ”

Overdose Risk

Phosphorous research by the medical community was possibly discontinued because of its poisonous effects when abused:

From the Materia Medica and Therapeutics section titled Phospherous A Poison we see:

  “ A French chemist determined to test the power of phosphorus in his own person, and took a grain, with a good deal of sugar, for his f‌irst dose. On the next day he tried two grains, and on the next, three. Violent vomiting soon came on, with inf‌lammation of the bowels, delirium, spasms, &c., and although vigorous measures were adopted, he perished, a victim of his own folly. ”

Further Reading

Phosphorus: Its Claims as a Therapeutic Agent by Wm. Mason Turner, B. Ph: M.D.

[stack]

Not too surprising. A lot of doctors were claiming that phosphorous was effective for a number of ailments.

Doesn't matter. You said, "What you quoted does not state that phosphorous can resolve all nervous system impairments.". Sure, the claim is not all, but a bunch. He even threw Cancer in the mix. Part of the problem is that he claimed every ailment was due to a "nervous disorder". Cancer, really? Caused by a nervous disorder?

And I'm not sure all those Dr's were marketing tonics for profit. I mean seriously, it doesn't get more snake oil than Birley's Elixir. Any idiot can see that.

[Tom Bishop]

Not too surprising. A lot of doctors were claiming that phosphorous was effective for a number of ailments.

Doesn't matter. You said, "What you quoted does not state that phosphorous can resolve all nervous system impairments.". Sure, the claim is not all, but a bunch.

Incorrect. He says that a lot of diseases are associated with nervous system degradation. This is not a statement that phosphorous can resolve everything he stated. It's a statement that a lot of diseases are associated with nervous system degradation.

Part of the problem is that he claimed every ailment was due to a "nervous disorder". Cancer, really? Caused by a nervous disorder?

Actually research of recent decades has found that certain nervous system disorders are associated with increased risk of cancer:

https://systematicreviewsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13643-017-0466-y

"During the past decades, a series of epidemiological observational studies and meta-analyses have claimed that central nervous disorders are associated with increased risk of cancer at several specific sites"

Clearly, Rowbotham was ahead of his time in medical science as well.

[stack]

Not too surprising. A lot of doctors were claiming that phosphorous was effective for a number of ailments.

Doesn't matter. You said, "What you quoted does not state that phosphorous can resolve all nervous system impairments.". Sure, the claim is not all, but a bunch.

Incorrect. He says that a lot of diseases are associated with nervous system degradation. This is not a statement that phosphorous can resolve everything he stated. It's a statement that a lot of diseases are associated with nervous system degradation.

It's right there in the pamphlet, "'Plain Syrup of Phosphorus' is a real most effectual remedy."

Part of the problem is that he claimed every ailment was due to a "nervous disorder". Cancer, really? Caused by a nervous disorder?

Actually research of past decades has found that cancer is associated with certain nervous system disorders:

https://systematicreviewsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13643-017-0466-y

"During the past decades, a series of epidemiological observational studies and meta-analyses have claimed that central nervous disorders are associated with increased risk of cancer at several specific sites"

Umm, lots of things "are associated with increased risk of cancer at several specific sites." I don't think any oncologist currently prescribes Dr. Pepper for any cancer treatments.

How did Rowbotham know they would be related? Clearly, he was ahead of his time in medical science as well.

Clearly not. He concocted what is now Dr. Pepper, according to Thork. I guess you think Dr. Pepper is medicinal? 

[Tom Bishop]

It's right there in the pamphlet, "'Plain Syrup of Phosphorus' is a real most effectual remedy."

That may be so, but Rowbotham says it's not a cure-all and he mixes it with other medicaments for treatment of the diseases he treats. Rowbotham indicates that phosphorous on its own is only good for certain conditions.

Umm, lots of things "are associated with increased risk of cancer at several specific sites."

Yes. The ailments associated with higher risk of cancer are indicative that certain systems are degraded in the body to cause it.

Schizophrenia and vulnerability to stress are associated with increased risk of Breast Cancer, which is the most commonly diagnosed cancer among women.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18492-8

Breast cancer is the most commonly diagnosed cancer among women worldwide¹. Some evidence suggests that vulnerability to stress^2,3,4, particularly indicated by the presence of psychiatric disorders including schizophrenia^5,6, may be associated with increased risk of subsequent breast cancer.

~

Schizophrenia was associated with a 49% increased risk of subsequent invasive breast cancer (95% confidence interval [CI], 37–63%, P = 1.72 × 10−19; Table 1).

~

Despite lower screening attendance¹⁹, it has recently been recognized that patients with schizophrenia are at increased risk of breast cancer⁶ but not of cancer overall^30,31.

[Dr David Thork]

Clearly not. He concocted what is now Dr. Pepper, according to Thork. I guess you think Dr. Pepper is medicinal? 

AT THE TIME people believed colas to have medicinal properties. Rowbotham invents the first cola.

In the 1950's doctors prescribed thalidomide to pregnant women. With disastrous consequences. We now know that thalidomide is not a good medicine. Your argument goes 'the people who invented thalidomide can't have been real medical professionals because thalidomide is snake oil'.

Step out of 2021 for a second and stop judging Rowbotham through the eyes of someone who has 150 years more science behind them. The guy kick starts the cola industry. An industry that is still worth billions of dollars to the economy today. He does it through the invention of a product that comes about by his own medical research ... for which he is awarded a PhD at the University of Edinburgh ... and you say 'no, not a doctor'. You're just wrong. As I also mentioned he was a physician as well which also confers the title doctor.

[AATW]

Ok.

So let’s say he was a doctor. And that while he might have been a quack, you could probably say that about most doctors of that era.


What has that got to do with anything? That doesn’t make him qualified to pontificate about the shape of the earth. Especially given that his motivation for doing so was his religious beliefs and his interpretation of Scripture.