1

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: May 15, 2022, 04:13:41 PM »

Yeah. Well. At least he didn’t whisper.

2

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: NATO Shenanigans

« on: May 13, 2022, 03:59:24 PM »

I thought that documentary was about Christmas.

3

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 12, 2022, 02:03:04 PM »

You were repeatedly attempting to trivialize it by calling it a "clump of cells".

I was simply dealing with the nonsense that abortion is the same as killing a living, breathing baby.
No-one believes that despite some of the trolls on here pretending to. It's notable that none of you have commented on the thought experiment, because you know it would expose you.
What point are you actually making here? That some women suffer trauma after an abortion? OK, granted. So?

4

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 12, 2022, 01:52:46 PM »

It is no surprise that women willing to murder their own children don't regret it.

Because they don't regard it as such.
Nor do you.

5

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 12, 2022, 10:01:15 AM »

Those are puff papers to deny the obvious. Look at the manipulative the questions they are asking

And you think the site you posted from is neutral? It says:

After submitting your testimonial it will be reviewed and if approved posted to our website. You will not be contacted and your contact information will remain private. Thank you for sharing and helping other women and men know the true experiences of abortion.

Why are they only approving some? Where are all the positive stories, are you seriously saying those don't exist? You're cherry picking again, as are they. Your trouble - and you do this with everything - is you only consider evidence to be reliable if it backs up what you already believe. Pretty easy to "prove" yourself right if you do that. Until you consider evidence more honestly and objectively you're doomed to never seriously inspect your own opinions or change your mind about anything no matter how clearly you're shown to be wrong.

You then go on to make a ridiculous false equivalence between killing your mother - someone you've had a lifelong emotional connection with - and a clump of cells which you do not. If you can't see why that's a stupid comparison then I don't know how to help you.

I don't think anyone is arguing that abortion is something one should take lightly. Overall I think it's a "bad thing". But as a male, I don't feel I can pontificate too much about a decision I'll never have to make. And it's notable that it's pretty much always old, white men who are making the laws about stuff like this.

6

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 12, 2022, 06:30:14 AM »

“Banning abortion will be a benefit to women”
               -an old conservative white guy

Women are happiest when they’re barefoot and pregnant. That’s just science

7

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 11, 2022, 05:31:16 PM »

I don't see a difference between a woman purposefully ending her pregnancy because it inconveniences her versus a woman killing her toddler because it inconveniences her.

Yes you do.

They're all children, the only difference is age.

No they aren't.

8

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden

« on: May 11, 2022, 04:45:52 PM »

When I think of creepy, I think of this:

Yeah, but he's not whispering so it's fine.
I can't even believe you think Trump talking about banging his own daughter is anywhere near as creepy as Biden whispering.

9

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden

« on: May 11, 2022, 01:07:03 PM »

Defence 

10

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden

« on: May 11, 2022, 12:48:26 PM »

Biden's speeches can be very odd.

It's hilarious, and a bit depressing, how easy it is for FOX to tell you what to think.

11

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden

« on: May 11, 2022, 12:40:23 PM »

Covfefe! I remember when Trump mumbled and spoke nonsensically

Yeah, that' didn't happen.

Right. Trump never spoke nonsense. Got it

“Look, having nuclear—my uncle was a great professor
and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good
genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton
School of Finance, very good, very smart —you know, if
you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if,
like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m
one of the smartest people anywhere in the world—it’s
true!—but when you’re a conservative Republican they
try—oh, do they do a number—that’s why I always start
off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there,
went there, did this, built a fortune—you know I have to
give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little
disadvantaged—but you look at the nuclear deal, the
thing that really bothers me—it would have been so easy,
and it’s not as important as these lives are (nuclear is
powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many
years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he
would explain the power of what’s going to happen and
he was right—who would have thought?), but when you
look at what’s going on with the four prisoners—now it
used to be three, now it’s four—but when it was three and
even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger;
fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they
haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now
than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about
another 150 years—but the Persians are great negotiators,
the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just
killed, they just killed us.”

12

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 11, 2022, 10:37:40 AM »

And yet many vegetarians eat eggs.

Actually, let me just cherry pick something which I think fits my agenda.

You do you dude. The TL;DR is people have different standards. In fact, the link you provided says that. Do you even read the stuff you cherry pick from? Your link says:

Whether or not you can eat eggs depends largely on the type of vegetarian diet that you follow. Semi-vegetarian and pescetarian diets allow for the consumption of eggs, as well as some animal or fish meats

Some people don't eat animals but do eat fish. Vegans don't eat any animal produce because they believe (rightly, I guess) that animals still have to suffer to produce those things. Even those of us who are meat eaters would mostly be a bit squeamish about eating, say, dog. There is no definitive clear line in all this. You keep pretending you believe that a clump of cells is equivalent to a human life but you don't. Again, you haven't answered my thought experiment because you know it would expose you.

All stages of living organisms need to eat.

And then you randomly switch the language to "want"

And yes, you said lots of other things in the post. But Pete's question was clear and he asked for a clear "yes or no". Your answer was "yes, certainly". I picked you up on it multiple times in the thread and you never backtracked or clarified. You believe that children who feel a way you don't approve of should feel unloved and ashamed. And yet here you are pretending to care about a clump of cells.
Bullshit. No-one is buying it dude.

13

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 11, 2022, 06:48:50 AM »

Purpously killing a zygote is no different than purposely stepping on nest of turtle eggs. You colloquially killed a bunch of turtles when you did that.

And yet many vegetarians eat eggs.
Because they recognise that there is a difference between an egg and a living breathing animal. As do you, for all your continued bullshit about what a clump of cells “wants”. I note you haven’t responded to my thought experiment. Oh, and:

Tom, for the avoidance of doubt: do you propose that some children should feel unloved or ashamed for who they are?

For super-duper-extra avoidance of doubt: this is a yes/no question. We can work out the details afterwards. An answer that doesn't include a clear "yes" or a "no" will be considered a cop-out.

Yes, certainly.

For all your subsequent squirming, Pete asked you a clear yes or no question and that was your response.

14

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 10, 2022, 09:30:59 PM »

And given that you've said elsewhere that kids who grow up to be gay or trans-gender should feel "unloved and ashamed"

To be fair, he quite obviously misspoke there, which is why I chose not to bring it up in that conversation.

What?
You specifically asked him to clarify if that’s what he meant and he said “yes, certainly”

15

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 10, 2022, 09:01:09 PM »

It actually illustrates your fallacy quite well. Newborn babies are not that developed, and can't pass the tests for consciousness.

This started when you said:

Why should it really matter at what week the pregnancy is terminated? In each case it is a human life who wants to live.

Which is bullshit. A clump of cells is not a human life, it doesn't "want" anything. You don't believe a zygote is equivalent to a human life. No-one does when push comes to shove which is why even the harshest stances tend to prioritise the mother's life if there's the risk of them dying. And given that you've said elsewhere that kids who grow up to be gay or trans-gender should feel "unloved and ashamed" cut out the crap about how much you care about them.

16

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 10, 2022, 04:30:56 PM »

This thread was a particularly fun read for what pregnancy can do to your body that you don't often hear about.

Are there unofficial Jews?

EDIT: My niece almost died giving birth, while we are here. She was pretty much bleeding out. They manage to stabilise her, thankfully. She has had a second child and the birth was quite traumatic then but because of the first time they knew what to look out for more and it wasn't as bad as the first one. She said to me she's not having more children - she might not have wanted more anyway but she doesn't actually think our body would cope with another pregnancy.

17

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 10, 2022, 04:30:12 PM »

A ten day old baby is hardly conscious

Bullshit.
What a stupid comparison.

18

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 10, 2022, 11:06:40 AM »

ITT Tom ascribes will and intent to a clump of cells. I suppose if that is what you believe, then being pro-life is consistent, but it does require you to ascribe will and intent to a clump of cells.

It also requires you to oppose cancer treatment.

I think Tom et al will make a distinction between human life and non-human life.
My argument is the clump of cells which results from a fertilized human egg is the latter. And no-one really regards that clump of cells as equivalent to a human baby.

19

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 10, 2022, 09:39:48 AM »

It is not an object or a substance, it is a living organism.

I didn't dispute the living part. I said that it wasn't by any sensible definition a human life. No-one regards a clump of cells as equivalent to human life which you could say "wants" anything. It has no consciousness.

The rest of your post is surprisingly sensible.

20

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Bye Bye Abortion

« on: May 10, 2022, 06:39:22 AM »

Why should it really matter at what week the pregnancy is terminated? In each case it is a human life who wants to live.

A clump of cells doesn’t “want” anything and by no sensible definition would you declare it a human life.

The question for you is why do you think laws should be made which the majority of people do not support? Why should the minority dictate to the majority? Is it simply because on this occasion you agree with those laws? That isn’t democracy. When Brexit happened I was butthurt, as the kids are saying, but as woolly headed as I think the result was, I wouldn’t have supported just disregarding the vote. I would have supported a second vote if there was good evidence that public opinion had changed. It sounds like we are heading towards the SCOTUS making rulings that neither the current party in power nor the majority of the population agree with. You only think it’s a good thing because you agree with them on this issue. Do you not understand how dangerous this is? It means that any rights you have can be taken away by the minority.