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Messages - AllAroundTheWorld

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1
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 24, 2021, 08:02:25 PM »
And if we were looking at that scene with the Sun behind us, you guys would then say that should just take a string and align it horizontally to the Sun behind us to prove that the illuminated portions of the Moon and Earth are pointed at the Sun.
I wouldn’t say that because spheres don’t point.

I’ve explained what the string experiment demonstrates. And yes, the light could be going up and around some imaginary dome in such a way that it still lines up with the string. But that isn’t how light behaves in either RE (light goes in straight lines) or FE (EA bends light upwards).

2
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 24, 2021, 01:13:52 PM »
So the argument is admitting that the ball experiment is a perspective effect, but the argument is now pointing out that when you align the ball to the Moon, the phase points in a similar direction. This is an argument that the Moon is undergoing a perspective effect.
Right. This isn't an admission, so much as an explanation. The phase you see on the moon depends on your perspective.
Of course it does. You have proved that with your pictures of the football. The phase you see on the ball depends on your perspective too. That's what my diagram shows and your pictures affirm.
In real life the ball and the moon are half lit and half dark at all times. But we don't always see the moon that way, we see a range of phases because of our changing perspective.
And the reason that you, living thousands of miles away from me, see the same phase of the moon as I do is because the moon is 250,000 miles away. In the context of that distance a few thousand miles doesn't change our perspective enough that there's any difference in what we see. Obviously with the ball you can move around it easily to see different "phases"

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If the Moon was aligning itself along on a surface of a sphere, it would also match the perspective effect.

OK. So you're saying the light could be taking the path up and over the sphere you drew above



If you're standing at the bottom of the red triangle and performing the string experiment, the blue dotted line represents the string.
So you're saying that you can't tell whether the light is really going in a straight line parallel to the string or whether it's going up and over the "dome" in the curved line you've drawn.

I basically agree, but that's just not how light behaves.
It's not how it behaves in RE where it goes in straight lines, or in FE where it bends upwards.

3
Obviously an audit orchestrated by the people who would have conducted the fraud and would go to jail for it if caught isn't going to fly.
Be honest with yourself, nothing is going to fly with you. Unless maybe Trump himself came out and admitted he lost fair and square which is never going to happen. You're so entrenched in your position that all the evidence showing you to be wrong just washes over. You've spent months hopping from one false hope to the next.
Worth noting that Jack Sellets, the Supervisors Chairman, is a Republican.
https://ballotpedia.org/Jack_Sellers
Why is he part of rigging an election for Biden?

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Innocent people don't refuse to obey subpoenas by the Senate and risk arrest
Do they go to court to try and stop their tax returns being released? :)

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« on: February 23, 2021, 10:02:54 PM »
Textbook Cognitive Dissonance, as always.
Anything which shows the conspiracy to be wrong is simply reframed and declared part of the conspiracy.

5
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 22, 2021, 10:52:03 PM »
As you admit, the experiment is using a perspective effect to get the illuminated portion of the ball to point upwards.

It's not an admission as such, more an explanation of why perspective is key in this experiment.
I don't really know what you mean by "perspective effect", you keep using that term as if it means something magic.
Perspective is important here for the reasons I've outlined. I've added a couple of additional "footballs" to my diagram:

You're looking from point A:



If you hold the ball to the left and the light source is to the right then you can only see the illuminated side of the ball.
If you hold it to the right then you can only see the dark side of the ball.

It's only if you hold it so it lines up with the moon that the line of sight is the same, the perspective is the same and the "phase" you observe on the ball is the same. Perspective is the reason we see different phases of the moon. In reality it's always half lit, half dark. But because of its changing position as it orbits us that changes our perspective so we see the different phases.

And one key thing to note here is of course the scale in my diagram is hopelessly wrong. In reality the moon is very distant - that's why it doesn't matter where you are on earth, you see the same phase. In the context of the moon being 250,000 miles away, a few thousand miles here and there doesn't significantly change your perspective (although the moon's orientation will be different in the southern hemisphere because you are "upside down" with respect to the northern hemisphere).
But the ball is very close to you so it's very easy to move it, or move your position relative to it so you observe different phases.

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This doesn't demonstrate that the Moon is pointing upwards to a perspective effect. We are using a perspective effect to get the ball to point upwards, when it could also be that the Moon is pointing upwards and we are just matching it.

Right. So two experiments have been outlined and they demonstrate different things.
IF the sun is illuminating the moon AND the sun is distant so the light rays from it are in effect parallel AND light travels in straight lines
THEN if you hold a ball up so it lines up with the moon you should observe the same phase on the ball as you do the moon.
Because both the moon and the ball are being illuminated by the same light source, the rays are going straight and parallel, they're hitting the moon and the ball at the same angle and you're looking at both from the same perspective.
That's what my original diagram was trying to explain. Hopefully the new one with the extra balls shows more clearly why perspective is important.

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The experiment is unable to distinguish whether the Moon is actually pointing upwards or not.

Correct. But that isn't what the experiment is intended to do. It's intended to add credence to the idea that the sun is distant and is illuminating the moon and the ball with parallel rays. I'll leave you to consider whether EA would make the same prediction.

There is another experiment we can do to determine whether the moon (more accurately the line perpendicular to the terminator on the moon) is pointing upwards. When you see the illusion the line perpendicular to the terminator looks like it shoots off into the sky. But as I've shown with the optical illusion above, we aren't very good at judging this sort of thing. I previously showed you this image:



It looks like the black line and the blue line join up when in fact it's the red line which is a continuation of the black line:
Humans pretty much suck at judging things in certain situations.

The point of the string experiment is that the string forms a straight line.
If the sun is illuminating the moon and light travels in straight lines then the line perpendicular to the terminator should intersect the sun. The string experiment shows that, contrary to what it appears to the naked eye, the string does indeed intersect the sun. Just like you can draw a line on the above picture to show that it is the black and red lines which form a straight line, not the blue:



And yes, the string experiment can't distinguish between whether the light is going in a straight line or whether it's arcing around a dome like in your water bottle diagram. But that isn't how light behaves either in the RE model where light travels in straight lines or in the FE one where light bends upwards. In your diagram the sun's light would have to be bending up and over a hemisphere which is the opposite of what EA claims.

6
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 22, 2021, 07:00:24 PM »
Next I moved my position to below the ball and the top of the post, to get the ball to point upwards via a close range perspective effect. I could have done a better job at getting the phase to match, by moving the camera around. But it was easy to move the camera downwards to get the illuminated portion to point upwards:

Right. You need to be looking up at the ball so it lines up with the moon so the phase on the moon and the ball line up. I tried to explain why here:



So yes, it is a perspective effect. You seem to see this as a fatal flaw in the experiment when actually it’s the exact point. The phase we see on the moon depends on our perspective.
Only if you line the ball up with the moon are you looking at them from the same perspective and thus the phases are consistent. Hopefully you can see from my diagram that if you place the ball elsewhere then as your photos demonstrate you’ll see a different “phase” on the ball and moon.

This demonstrates that both the ball and the moon are being illuminated by the same light source, a distant sun.

7
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 22, 2021, 06:40:23 PM »
Ok. It’s good that you did an experiment.
And what is your conclusion from the results?

8
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 22, 2021, 03:23:25 PM »
While we're here. Here's another optical illusion



Those horizontal lines don't appear straight. Tom's argument seems to be that because things don't appear a certain way, they can't be that way. The entire point of the string experiment is it "breaks" the illusion. It shows the apparent misalignment between the moon and the sun is merely an optical illusion.

Now, because this is in 3D space it could be that the light is actually bowing away from us, so the string is straight but the light is going in an arc but
a) That's not how light behaves and
b) Even if that was true, that wouldn't explain the illusion, where it looks like the light is arcing across the sky like a rainbow. The string proves that this is not the case.

TL;DR - the brain does a lot of processing of what we see, the moon-tilt illusion and the above image are good examples of how it can be fooled.

9
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden
« on: February 22, 2021, 11:50:01 AM »
As a non American, I assure you that the rest of the world is laughing at you far less now there’s a grown up in the White House.
I'm not sure citizens of Brexitville are the best judges of character out there. Indeed, I'd take the UK's opinion as a great bellwether for what not to believe.
I don't talk to stupids.
I'd take the Thork's opinion as a great bellwether for what not to believe.
But if you don't trust what people in the UK think (fairly sensibly), then it's not just us

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/global-views-us-presidential-election

Internationally Trump is a laughing stock, Biden is viewed as a grown up.

10
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 21, 2021, 09:59:08 PM »
The Sun we see is after EA has made its effect. The light is locally Euclidean.

Fair enough. I'll agree that works. To be honest, I didn't really understand the Wiki explanation of why this is predicted by EA, but thanks for providing it finally. But I think the implication of your explanation is that the terminator of the moon and the sun are really misaligned. But they aren't. The string experiment proves this.

EA wasn't made up to explain the Moon Tilt Illusion.

Correct, it was made up to explain sunrise and sunset - although I'll note here that you used to explain those by "perspective" and have quietly abandoned that in favour of EA.

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RE'ers of all stripes are blasting the internet and literature, searching for explanations and ways to explain the Moon Tilt Illusion in RE under straight line geometry

It's really easy to explain, although perhaps not that easy to understand. It's an optical illusion. The string experiment demonstrates this. It shows that the line perpendicular to the moon's terminator does indeed intersect the sun, as it should, and that the appearance that it is misaligned is merely an optical illusion. Which shows EA to be incorrect, the light is going in straight lines across the sky even if it appears not to be.
You continuing not to understand that doesn't change that.

11
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 21, 2021, 08:01:31 PM »

Why are these lines straight?
What happened to EA?

Can you please explain how the moon tilt illusion is predicted by EA with a diagram?

If you can’t then I suggest you remove that claim from the Wiki.

12
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 21, 2021, 05:22:38 PM »
This is clearly a close range perspective effect that caused this to happen, no different than the previous examples in this thread

I do enjoy it when you talk balls; could you explain how a close range perspective effect works on a ball’s shadow and at what range a true representation would be seen?
Weirdly, all the ways Tom doesn’t understand perspective have cancelled themselves out here and he’s sort of stumbled on the right answer.

In reality half of the moon is lit up at all times. The phase we see of the moon is because of our perspective. So the fact you have to hold the ball up so it lines up with the moon - the very thing Tom is using to dismiss this experiment - is exactly the point.

If you hold the ball up so they line up then if the sun is distant and is illuminating the moon and the ball then you’d expect to see the same phase. I drew a diagram explaining this.

If EA was a thing then I’d expect to see different phases because the ball and moon are in different positions and so would be lit in different ways by the bending light. But that isn’t what we observe.

13
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 21, 2021, 04:47:18 PM »
On the topic of the fallacious "ball experiment"
Your inability to understand something doesn’t make the something fallacious.

I even drew a diagram to try and help you understand why the alignment was important.
If you didn’t understand it then feel free to ask questions and I will try to explain further.

Your continued inability to draw a diagram explaining how this illusion is a prediction of EA is noted. If this claim cannot be backed up with any evidence then I suggest you remove it from your Wiki.

14
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden
« on: February 21, 2021, 09:37:08 AM »
I'm no Biden apologist. Nor am I a fan of whataboutism... but jesus it's like you've deleted the shitshow of the last 5 years from your memory entirely.
Indeed.
It’s weird how Thork accuses me of a short and selective memory while carefully selecting certain things to “demonstrate” that Biden isn’t a grown up. One of which is him playing with his granddaughter at a level she will engage with which is very much what grown ups do.

Biden is a grown up because of how he conducts himself. I’m sure if you pore through every detail you can make him look bad. But he is taking seriously and dealing with things like the pandemic and the situation in Texas.
He isn’t just denying it’s happening, saying it’ll all go away, claiming he’s doing a brilliant job and buggering off to play golf.
He isn’t Tweeting lies every 5 minutes or attacking in puerile ways anyone who disagrees with him. He isn’t conducting international diplomacy with another nuclear power via a Twitter flame war.

If you watch documentaries about the Trump presidency you’ll know that people around Trump were regarded “the grown ups in the room”. Trump was not.

15
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 21, 2021, 08:02:34 AM »
Wow, by moving the camera around the ball in the foreground I can make the foreground ball match a similar orientation to the ball in the background. Moon Illusion ProoooF!!
Well, no. That’s neither proof nor refutation.
You keep modelling things which are not equivalent to the sun moon system and so drawing false conclusions.

I’m sorry you don’t understand perspective. That does seem to be the root of many of your problems. It’s why you don’t understand crepuscular rays too. Some time ago I did a 3D model which showed how that works and you walked away from the conversation, something you do regularly when you’re shown definitively to be wrong.

The cone model you did is erroneous because cones point, spherical light sources don’t.
The two spheres model is erroneous because yes, in the ping pong ball perspective IS important. I drew a diagram explaining why. You ignored it as you do so often with things you don’t understand or can’t refute.

It’s as simple as this:
IF the sun is distant and illuminating the moon THEN when you can see the sun and the moon at the same time you should be able to draw a straight line perpendicular to the terminator of the moon which intersects the sun. To the naked eye it looks like you can’t when the illusion occurs. The string experiment demonstrates that the apparent misalignment is simply an optical illusion.

IF the sun is distant and illuminating the moon THEN if you hold up a sphere so it is aligned with the sun - my diagram explains why this alignment is important - then you should observe the same phase on the ball as you do the moon because they are both being illuminated by the same parallel rays from the sun.

You really need to take a simple physics class, your lack of understanding is leading you to false conclusions.

And your continued failure to provide a diagram demonstrating how this illusion is a prediction of EA as your Wiki claims is telling.
If you can’t do that then I suggest you remove that from the Wiki.

16
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: February 20, 2021, 04:09:13 PM »
I’ll put this here so as not to further bollox up the Biden thread. A further response to Thork implying that people in the UK prefer Trump to Biden when I think he actually means just him

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/trump-biden-us-election-uk-poll-b1529337.html

17
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden
« on: February 20, 2021, 03:56:06 PM »
Back to Biden. This addresses Tom’s lies in the meme thread where he posted a meme deliberately taking a small snippet of a quote out of context. I know that’s Tom’s MO, but here’s the context:

https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/feb/18/context-what-joe-biden-said-about-vaccine-supply-h/

18
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden
« on: February 20, 2021, 03:29:53 PM »
This is absolute nonsense.
You obviously talk to different people than I do. Most people I know are relieved there’s a grown up in the White House

People literally and openly laughed at Trump. Remember this?



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They got rid of a man who could at least deliver a rousing speech

Without wishing to go all Godwin’s Law on you, I know an Austrian fella who could do that.

And I thought Biden’s inauguration speech was excellent.

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Yes, there are sycophants like AATW who will cosy up to absolutely anyone as long as its not Trump, so blinded by mainstream media outlets as he has been.

Oh, you’re one of them. Not a surprise really.
Let me guess, the real news is to be found on YouTube channels and right wing blogs which you happen to agree with. Right?

19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden
« on: February 20, 2021, 10:29:17 AM »
What does his essay have to do with the fact that Joe Biden is a dementia-ridden embarrassment?
As a non American, I assure you that the rest of the world is laughing at you far less now there’s a grown up in the White House.

20
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Simple Experiments
« on: February 20, 2021, 10:06:29 AM »
And we need to use the string experiment, which we know is not reliable to show where bodies are pointing, to prove your optical illusion of the brain and to prove that the illuminated portion of the Moon is pointing at the Sun.
Once again, bodies don't point. If a spherical object is illuminated by a distant light source - distant enough that the light rays are in effect parallel - then the light source will illuminate half the object. And the light must be coming from a direction perpendicular to the terminator on the object



In your example you can see from the 3D view that the cone doesn't point at the sun, but the point of the string experiment is that it demonstrates that the sun could be illuminating the moon. To the naked eye it looks like it can't because of the angles, the string demonstrates that this is merely an optical illusion and there is indeed a straight line perpendicular to the terminator on the moon which intersects the sun. And sure, it could be that the light is doing a weird arc away from us and hitting the moon but that isn't how light operates. Maybe this is where you think EA helps but your continued inability to explain how this illusion is a prediction of EA is noted, and very telling. All you have to do is draw a diagram to demonstrate.

You are using a close range perspective effect with a ball at close range to get it to point like the Moon. With slight movements around the ball you can get it to point in a variety of different directions.

As usual, your inability to understand perspective is causing you to miss the point of this experiment and the significance of the result.
Because perspective is important here. The moon is lit by a distance sun. In real life half of the moon is always illuminated, half is always in darkness.
But because of our changing perspective over time we don't always see a half moon. Sometimes we see almost all of the illuminated side, sometimes we see almost none.

The point is IF the sun is distant and illuminating the moon then if you hold up a ball so that from your perspective it lines up with the moon then the parallel rays from the sun should illuminate the ball in the same way. So you should see the same "phase" on the ball as you do the moon. "A" is your viewing position:



If you don't line them up then yes, you'll see different phases. That's the exact point.

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