Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2018, 12:45:03 AM »
Oh, I didn't realize the Russian Space Agency was a sub division of NASA.
I was demonstrating that space agencies can develop technology besides space travel, and did so. I'm sure the Russians probably invent things too, but I'm not as familiar and don't speak Russian so digging for foreign language sources for a concept already demonstrated is silly.

No one has made that statement, where are you getting your information from?
From this guy who said they space agency's aren't funded to confirm the earth's shape.
Also they aren't paid to confirm the earth's shape.
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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2018, 12:51:15 AM »
Really? What better technology exists to get television and communications to places that are not reached by mobile masts and hard cables, and the limited range and bandwidth of terrestrial broadcasts?

When a ship is outside of about 30 miles from land there are no cables, and mobile phone technology doesn’t reach that distance, and there are no long trailing fibre optic cables, how do you think we communicate?
We have a satellite dish, gyro stabilised, to compensate for the ships motion, and this points up to a satellite which provides the voice and data connection we need. If this fails we do not have any connection. If the satellite is obscured by a mast, we lose data connection and voice comms. We need to switch or point the dish at a different satellite.
Please explain how this happens if there are no satellites. You must know how it happens to be able to say we are lying. In fact behind able to respond and post on this forum requires a satellite connection to allow me to do so when we are many hundreds of miles from land.

And guess what, there are no mobile masts floating around the ocean!

Some ships have satellite television that works in the same way. If not pointing at a satellite, there is no tv. Point the dish at a satellite, and hey presto, a picture appears. Just to make it clear in case you missed my earlier comment, we have no cables attached to the ship, no Wi-fi signal, and no mobile signal, and no terrestrial tv signal. How does that work?
I don't believe I ever claimed satellites don't exist. I just claimed they are not orbiting the earth as the round earth model describes. I've never doubted the existence of devices outside the human eye that aid in transmitting television signals. Just because you go in detail about some insane scheme you think is happening doesn't make that scheme right. I can claim my graphics card is powered by magic pixies, and type plenty of details about how my computer pixies are on a boat, but that doesn't make my pixie theory right.
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Offline Tontogary

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2018, 01:05:43 AM »

I don't believe I ever claimed satellites don't exist. I just claimed they are not orbiting the earth as the round earth model describes. I've never doubted the existence of devices outside the human eye that aid in transmitting television signals. Just because you go in detail about some insane scheme you think is happening doesn't make that scheme right. I can claim my graphics card is powered by magic pixies, and type plenty of details about how my computer pixies are on a boat, but that doesn't make my pixie theory right.
[/quote]

I am so glad that you aknowledge the existence of satellites. It is a big step forwards.

So if they are not orbiting a round earth, what do they do? How do they stay in a fixed geostationary place?

As for going into detail about an insane scheme i think is happening, well I can assure you i dont have to think communications is happening, I know, as i am able to post on this site. I wouldn’t be able to if i could not transmit data. By replying to my post and me replying back, (unless we are both in the matrix, and nothing is real), I would suggest is pretty good evidence that there is a data transmission of some description.
We believe it is because the data is being beamed to a Geostationary satellite above us, which in turn relays that data to a ground station, which in turn puts it into the system of high speed data transmission used for the inter web.

What is your explanation? A few basic details would be good.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Offline SiDawg

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #63 on: May 09, 2018, 01:06:54 AM »
Quote
the fact that people get television from a fixed dish is in no way indicative of the shape of the earth.

This seems to be a common problem with flat earthers: you're unable to "connect the dots". Sure, one element in of itself might not prove anything, but there are hundreds of unique categories of evidence, and thousands of pieces of evidence within each category...

But all that's required to believe in a round earth, is a an understanding of gravity. It explains why it's a globe, it explains why we orbit the sun, it explains the path of planets in the sky, all with one very very simple formula. It explains how satellites can orbit the earth, why the moon orbits the earth.

What's required to believe the flat earth? The planets take squigly spiral paths through the sky for an unknown reason, the sun hovers above the flat earth for an unknown reason when everything else is pulled to the earth, the moon is somehow a disc but appears like a perfect sphere that's why it appears upside down in the south, the stars adhere to a bizarre un-demonstrable law of perspective  (neither through direct observation nor mathematics), the sun adheres to the same un-demonstrable law of perspective, there's a global conspiracy involving all space agencies, nobody has been to Antarctica (add them to the conspiracy), ships aren't really navigating how they think they're navigating, nobody knows the true distances between points on the earth even though they know their speed and the time it takes to get places (add them to the conspiracy)... etc...

Time to give up
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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2018, 01:52:45 AM »
So if they are not orbiting a round earth, what do they do? How do they stay in a fixed geostationary place?
I've seen aircraft move at many speeds, as well as hold still. There are numerous methods that could be used, and I'm hardly qualified to tell you the exact mechanics of hypothetical aircraft.

We believe it is because the data is being beamed to a Geostationary satellite above us, which in turn relays that data to a ground station, which in turn puts it into the system of high speed data transmission used for the inter web.

What is your explanation? A few basic details would be good.
You want me to explain how the internet works to you? I can tell you my connection uses a series of cables buried in the ground, and the data usually runs to some major city and then back to me. It seems like running all the data up into space, or the upper atmosphere, would really be unnecessary.
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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #65 on: May 09, 2018, 02:03:25 AM »
So if they are not orbiting a round earth, what do they do? How do they stay in a fixed geostationary place?
I've seen aircraft move at many speeds, as well as hold still. There are numerous methods that could be used, and I'm hardly qualified to tell you the exact mechanics of hypothetical aircraft.
Hmm… rocket equations anyone? I wonder how long those "satellites" have been up.
Quote
We believe it is because the data is being beamed to a Geostationary satellite above us, which in turn relays that data to a ground station, which in turn puts it into the system of high speed data transmission used for the inter web.

What is your explanation? A few basic details would be good.
You want me to explain how the internet works to you? I can tell you my connection uses a series of cables buried in the ground, and the data usually runs to some major city and then back to me. It seems like running all the data up into space, or the upper atmosphere, would really be unnecessary.
A+ strawman. Didn't Tontogary also tell you that those cables would be wildly impractical for a ship that regularly moves between continents?
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Offline jcks

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #66 on: May 09, 2018, 02:06:42 AM »
Oh, I didn't realize the Russian Space Agency was a sub division of NASA.
I was demonstrating that space agencies can develop technology besides space travel, and did so. I'm sure the Russians probably invent things too, but I'm not as familiar and don't speak Russian so digging for foreign language sources for a concept already demonstrated is silly.

Sure, but that wasn't a part of my question.

No one has made that statement, where are you getting your information from?
From this guy who said they space agency's aren't funded to confirm the earth's shape.
Also they aren't paid to confirm the earth's shape.

They are NOT paid for the singular purpose of confirming earth's shape. That is exactly what I said in that quote.

So then where did you get the idea that they were funded solely for that purpose? That was my question which you neglected to answer.

Offline Tontogary

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #67 on: May 09, 2018, 02:13:01 AM »
So if they are not orbiting a round earth, what do they do? How do they stay in a fixed geostationary place?
I've seen aircraft move at many speeds, as well as hold still. There are numerous methods that could be used, and I'm hardly qualified to tell you the exact mechanics of hypothetical aircraft.

We believe it is because the data is being beamed to a Geostationary satellite above us, which in turn relays that data to a ground station, which in turn puts it into the system of high speed data transmission used for the inter web.

What is your explanation? A few basic details would be good.
You want me to explain how the internet works to you? I can tell you my connection uses a series of cables buried in the ground, and the data usually runs to some major city and then back to me. It seems like running all the data up into space, or the upper atmosphere, would really be unnecessary.
I dont ask, and have never have asked how the internet works. I am asking you to explain how, with no cables at this end buried in the ground, no mobile phone coverage, so no mobile internet, how it is I can post data to the internet, when ALL we have for doing so is a satellite dish, pointing to a coordinate in Space that we know, or can find out, and by doing this we have communications and data.

As for Hypothetical aircraft, that is a real jump of the imagination. The satellites stay in the same place for months and years.
To replicate that any “hypothetical aircraft” would need enormous amounts of fuel using todays technology. How is that fuel carried? Or delivered?

Do you not think that if we had the technology to have an aircraft hovering in the atmosphere with a tiny amount of fuel, to replicate the satellites, then we would be able to use the same technology for transporting people around different places on the globe at a fraction of the cost to the environment, as well as to the transport providers?
If we have such technology (and for a FE we must have or the services provided by satellites/Hypothetical aircraft would not work) then we have produced such hypothetical aircraft, and the knowledge would be available to use it in so many other ways.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2018, 03:20:17 AM »
A+ strawman. Didn't Tontogary also tell you that those cables would be wildly impractical for a ship that regularly moves between continents?
I never claimed that ships at sea were using my personal internet connection.  If you're going to interject at least pay attention.

They are NOT paid for the singular purpose of confirming earth's shape. That is exactly what I said in that quote.

So then where did you get the idea that they were funded solely for that purpose? That was my question which you neglected to answer.
I never claimed it was a singular reason for funding. They are funded for a number of reasons I already addressed, and many I have not had to mention.
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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2018, 10:13:42 AM »
Other way around. The fact that the earth is round means that you can watch Jeopardy from a satellite.
So the central argument is "The earth is round because I can watch Jeopardy because the earth is round". Your argument is circular in multiple ways now.
Did you actually read my post? Highlighted in bold the part you are still ignoring.

If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2018, 10:40:07 AM »
I don't believe I ever claimed satellites don't exist. I just claimed they are not orbiting the earth as the round earth model describes. I've never doubted the existence of devices outside the human eye that aid in transmitting television signals. ...

Here's a video demonstrating the products of Plane Wave Media. In it, you can see a telescope tracking orbital satellites, with the star field moving in the background as the telescope moves across the sky. You can see the output from the telescope, a depiction of the star chart, showing where the telescope is pointing, a view of the telescope as it operates, and a data chart showing attributes of the telescope and its targets.

Or do you think it shows something else? Do you think the manufacturer is tracking them based on something other than global tracks, and they're deceiving us about it? Why would they do that?

==============================
==============================
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Offline jcks

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2018, 11:38:15 AM »
I never claimed it was a singular reason for funding. They are funded for a number of reasons I already addressed, and many I have not had to mention.

Then what was the purpose of this statement?

Quote

Good, so we agree the shape of the earth is irrelevant to why space agency's are funded.
 

If no one mentioned anything about them being paid solely to find out the earth's shape then why mention that?

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #72 on: May 09, 2018, 05:45:37 PM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.

I'm sure you will have no problem proving that?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #73 on: May 09, 2018, 06:54:52 PM »
Did you actually read my post? Highlighted in bold the part you are still ignoring.
You have let to prove a link between watching TV and the earth being round. You keep just stating your premise (this ridiculous orbiting satellite theory) as a fact. I have demonstrated, over and again, that satellites orbiting the earth are not needed for TV.

If no one mentioned anything about them being paid solely to find out the earth's shape then why mention that?
This whole thread is about why people would claim the earth is round despite the reality of it being flat. You don't think the motivation of space agency's funding is relevant to that conversation?

Here's a video demonstrating the products of Plane Wave Media. In it, you can see a telescope tracking orbital satellites, with the star field moving in the background as the telescope moves across the sky. You can see the output from the telescope, a depiction of the star chart, showing where the telescope is pointing, a view of the telescope as it operates, and a data chart showing attributes of the telescope and its targets.

Or do you think it shows something else? Do you think the manufacturer is tracking them based on something other than global tracks, and they're deceiving us about it? Why would they do that?


I can make a video showing the mechanics of dragons flying. That hardly proves the existence of dragons flying, it just shows off my ability to make a video. Hell, Tolkien made worlds with much more detail than round earth advocates can usually conjure up.

As for how the manufacturers of navigation technology make the stuff, there are numerous ways to transmit a signal both wireless and with wires that do not require orbiting satellites in space.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

I have embraced my Benny Franko side. I'm sleazy.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #74 on: May 09, 2018, 07:03:53 PM »
Did you actually read my post? Highlighted in bold the part you are still ignoring.
You have let to prove a link between watching TV and the earth being round. You keep just stating your premise (this ridiculous orbiting satellite theory) as a fact. I have demonstrated, over and again, that satellites orbiting the earth are not needed for TV.

If no one mentioned anything about them being paid solely to find out the earth's shape then why mention that?
This whole thread is about why people would claim the earth is round despite the reality of it being flat. You don't think the motivation of space agency's funding is relevant to that conversation?

Here's a video demonstrating the products of Plane Wave Media. In it, you can see a telescope tracking orbital satellites, with the star field moving in the background as the telescope moves across the sky. You can see the output from the telescope, a depiction of the star chart, showing where the telescope is pointing, a view of the telescope as it operates, and a data chart showing attributes of the telescope and its targets.

Or do you think it shows something else? Do you think the manufacturer is tracking them based on something other than global tracks, and they're deceiving us about it? Why would they do that?


I can make a video showing the mechanics of dragons flying. That hardly proves the existence of dragons flying, it just shows off my ability to make a video. Hell, Tolkien made worlds with much more detail than round earth advocates can usually conjure up.

As for how the manufacturers of navigation technology make the stuff, there are numerous ways to transmit a signal both wireless and with wires that do not require orbiting satellites in space.
Not needed is not the same as do not exist. I have a dish that receives multi channel tv pointing at an object over the equator. Maybe you can explain how it works with links to the satellite or otherwise operator.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2018, 07:53:15 PM »
I have demonstrated, over and again, that satellites orbiting the earth are not needed for TV.

Yes, they are not needed as the sole method of receiving TV (other methods are via terrestrial transmitters, cable access, and closed-circuit), but that forms no sort of proof of the absence or non-existence of satellites. Satellite is but one of these four methods of transmission and reception.


Here's a video demonstrating the products of Plane Wave Media. In it, you can see a telescope tracking orbital satellites, with the star field moving in the background as the telescope moves across the sky. You can see the output from the telescope, a depiction of the star chart, showing where the telescope is pointing, a view of the telescope as it operates, and a data chart showing attributes of the telescope and its targets.

Or do you think it shows something else? Do you think the manufacturer is tracking them based on something other than global tracks, and they're deceiving us about it? Why would they do that?

VID
I can make a video showing the mechanics of dragons flying. That hardly proves the existence of dragons flying, it just shows off my ability to make a video.

Once you sell flying dragons as a commercial product, the way that these guys do with their telescopes, then feel free to make a promotional video. Meanwhile, why don't you address the mechanics of what they're doing, and how they do it?

As for how the manufacturers of navigation technology make the stuff, there are numerous ways to transmit a signal both wireless and with wires that do not require orbiting satellites in space.

The presence or absence of those other methods is not, of itself, a disproof of satellites.
==============================
==============================
Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

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Offline jcks

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2018, 08:09:47 PM »
If no one mentioned anything about them being paid solely to find out the earth's shape then why mention that?
This whole thread is about why people would claim the earth is round despite the reality of it being flat. You don't think the motivation of space agency's funding is relevant to that conversation?

No, because they weren't being funded to confirm the shape of the earth (you even said it was irrelevant to the discussion). We had an idea of what the earth looked like when we went into space, on the way to the moon we happened to see that it was just as we thought (a sphere).

At no point has anyone claimed that funding for NASA was used to confirm what the shape of the earth was. You came up with that assertion all on your own.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2018, 08:37:59 PM »
First of all, you can three get avatars? It's like I'm talking with three generic people named Terry.

Not needed is not the same as do not exist. I have a dish that receives multi channel tv pointing at an object over the equator. Maybe you can explain how it works with links to the satellite or otherwise operator.
It's hardly fair to expect me to explain how something on your property, which could be anywhere in the world away from me. We've already established there are many methods of technology that could be used. I can't be expected to describe a specific set-up that I literally can not observe.

The presence or absence of those other methods is not, of itself, a disproof of satellites.
I can't prove a negative. You're the one making the claim and I have to provide the evidence?

At no point has anyone claimed that funding for NASA was used to confirm what the shape of the earth was. You came up with that assertion all on your own.
So NASA isn't proof of a round earth? Got it.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #78 on: May 09, 2018, 08:47:27 PM »
First of all, you can three get avatars? It's like I'm talking with three generic people named Terry.

Not needed is not the same as do not exist. I have a dish that receives multi channel tv pointing at an object over the equator. Maybe you can explain how it works with links to the satellite or otherwise operator.
It's hardly fair to expect me to explain how something on your property, which could be anywhere in the world away from me. We've already established there are many methods of technology that could be used. I can't be expected to describe a specific set-up that I literally can not observe.

The presence or absence of those other methods is not, of itself, a disproof of satellites.
I can't prove a negative. You're the one making the claim and I have to provide the evidence?

At no point has anyone claimed that funding for NASA was used to confirm what the shape of the earth was. You came up with that assertion all on your own.
So NASA isn't proof of a round earth? Got it.
Satellite broadcastìng is used throughout the world, I am sure you have seen dishes. If you were serious in this discussion you would not even try to claim not to understand them.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #79 on: May 09, 2018, 08:57:55 PM »
Not needed is not the same as do not exist. I have a dish that receives multi channel tv pointing at an object over the equator. Maybe you can explain how it works with links to the satellite or otherwise operator.
It's hardly fair to expect me to explain how something on your property, which could be anywhere in the world away from me. We've already established there are many methods of technology that could be used. I can't be expected to describe a specific set-up that I literally can not observe.
How about this, literally taken from Google images?

Quote
The presence or absence of those other methods is not, of itself, a disproof of satellites.
I can't prove a negative. You're the one making the claim and I have to provide the evidence?
You've already been shown photos of satellites from the ground. That gives you the burden of proof.
Quote
At no point has anyone claimed that funding for NASA was used to confirm what the shape of the earth was. You came up with that assertion all on your own.
So NASA isn't proof of a round earth? Got it.
Their mandate does not include determining the shape of the world, but they did so on the way.
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