Flat Earth UK Convention
« on: May 01, 2018, 08:55:35 PM »
It sounds like it was a roaring success:

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/699627/flat-earth-conference-uk-birmingham-gravity-nasa-flintoff-musk

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More than 200 believers paid £107 for the three-day convention in Birmingham.
In the conference room of Birmingham's Jurys Inn hotel, delegates bought and sold flat earth merchandise.

And they had an impressive line-up of highly qualified speakers:

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Dave Marsh, an NHS manager who spoke at the conference, said: “My research destroys big bang cosmology.
“It supports the idea that gravity doesn't exist and the only true force in nature is electromagnetism.”
In his speech, Mr Marsh claimed he had disproved planetary motion using a Nikon camera and an app from his back garden

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Dave Murphy, a former graphic designer who now lives “off-grid”, also spoke at the convention.

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Darren Nesbit, a Bolton-based dance musician who spoke at the conference, claimed Earth is diamond-shaped and supported by pillars.
He said: “I’m not saying this is definitely what is going on, but I think it is a plausible model.”

Did anyone on here go? Had it been in London I might have been tempted.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2018, 09:12:55 PM »
£107 to listen/watch them repeat what they've already put up on YouTube?

Not flippin' likely...
==============================
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Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2018, 09:14:45 PM »
£107 to listen/watch them repeat what they've already put up on YouTube?

Not flippin' likely...
There was a web streaming option for something like £20 which I was tempted by but as you say I doubt it's much more than stuff you could find on YouTube.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 01:58:09 AM »
It seems to have been a very productive convention. I wish I could've gone. I would've liked to hear Dave Marsh's scientific research in person and to hear about the proposed Pac man theory.
Hi y'all. I am a typical GENIUS girl who does NOT follow the masses and who does NOT blindly accept what is told to me without EVIDENCE. That being said, I don't believe in a lot of "facts" (the quotations mean they're NOT actual facts) including evolution, the holocaust, and the globular earth HYPOTHESIS.

Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2018, 09:16:59 AM »
It seems to have been a very productive convention. I wish I could've gone. I would've liked to hear Dave Marsh's scientific research in person and to hear about the proposed Pac man theory.
Yes, and being an NHS Manager he definitely has all the right qualifications to be taken seriously.
Just had a look at his YouTube channel and, unsurprisingly, he's just a conspiracy theorist. This video for example:



So his argument is basically, "the amateur rocket went very fast very quickly, the Russian one didn't and then starts heading in the wrong direction".

The obvious response to that is the amateur rocket is much lighter and burns much less fuel but more quickly so accelerates much more but for less time, the Russian rockets are much heavier and accelerate more gradually but for longer. I don't know if this was a manned rocket but humans probably couldn't survive the G forces that amateur rocket would have subjected them to. As for it going in the "wrong" direction, the amateur rocket was intended to go up to a certain altitude and then back down again, the Russian rocket is intended to go into orbit so of course can't keep going straight up, it has to turn and start going more parallel to the ground fast enough to achieve orbit, that's what orbit is.

So while the title of the video is right, it doesn't take a rocket scientist, but it does take someone with a rudimentary understanding of rockets and physics which he clearly doesn't have. Which leads me to be suspicious about his other beliefs.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2018, 07:36:39 AM »
You seem to be very quick to judge people's qualifications. I'm glad that "it doesn't take a rocket scientist" when it's you speaking about how you think you're right, though. That would be terrible.
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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2018, 09:23:00 AM »
The dude is an NHS manager. That tells me he hasn't got a wealth of professional experience in the relevant fields. That is a fact, not a judgement. But hey neither do I, I just have an A-Level in physics and an interest in this sort of thing so I've read a bit. So my qualifications aren't great either.

So fine, he's entitled to his thoughts on this, I am entitled to mine.

He seems to think that because an amateur rocket shoots off like...er, well, a rocket and a Russian rocket accelerates more slowly then that's a smoking gun of something.
And he asserts that the Russian rocket ends up going in the "wrong direction".

I have explained why these things are spurious objections and whatever point he thinks he's making is invalid.
Do you disagree? If so then feel free to chip in and say where you think I'm going wrong.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 12:13:54 PM »
Great to see Flat Earthers getting together. Too few of us around, and need to share ideas and develop theory.

I was getting worried though by news article:
Flat Earthers' latest conspiracy involves Australia - Australia is not real

I'm in Australia! But I guess nutters everywhere just like nutters amongst round earthers.
As the saying goes "The internet belongs to the lunatics in their walled gardens" - Xiang Yu

I see a Flat Earth. And I can't imagine anything else.

I got work to do. 0.00018% of Christians believe in a Flat Earth. Pls help

Offline isaacN

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2018, 06:53:34 AM »
It seems to have been a very productive convention. I wish I could've gone. I would've liked to hear Dave Marsh's scientific research in person and to hear about the proposed Pac man theory.

I think calling what Dave March does “scientific research” is rather misleading. Have you ever been involved in actual scientific research and know what’s actually involved? Has Mr. Marsh published any scientific papers on his work so that his results and methadoligy can be checked and possibly verified?  Saying you’re doing scientific research, and actually doing it are two very different things. Coming out with an idea such as his PAC Man Earth! is not evidence that he has conducted any research, rather it sounds like the product from a random daydream.

Offline Tontogary

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2018, 10:52:22 AM »
I would not have paid the £107 (approx $150 US) to attend, probably more importantly, i would not have spent the time to do so, as i personally would have found it tortuous to sit through some of the talks and rankings.

However what it does show is that TFES in the UK is, thankfully, very very small.

200 out of a population of 70 million, that is 0.000286% of the population, or 1 person for every 300,000 people.

These fringe groups can be found everywhere, in fact, i believe over 800 times more people identified with being a Star Wars Jedi knight in the last UK census!

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2018, 11:39:33 AM »
However what it does show is that TFES in the UK is, thankfully, very very small.
This is not the first time this fallacy has come up here, but it absolutely boggles my mind that it still does. For some reason, the RE masterminds here seem to think that attending a relatively expensive event is a pre-requisite for subscribing to certain views, or supporting them.

If 200 people attend a retro gaming convention, does that mean that 200 people in that country, and nobody else, like retro games? Of course not. By that logic, the Labour party should be very scared - after all, only 13,000 people will vote for them nationwide. Oh, wait, that's highly unlikely, and the actual number is in the tens of millions.

Much like the American convention, this event came very close to filling its venue to its fire safety capacity.
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Offline Tontogary

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2018, 12:02:28 PM »
However what it does show is that TFES in the UK is, thankfully, very very small.
This is not the first time this fallacy has come up here, but it absolutely boggles my mind that it still does. For some reason, the RE masterminds here seem to think that attending a relatively expensive event is a pre-requisite for subscribing to certain views, or supporting them.

If 200 people attend a retro gaming convention, does that mean that 200 people in that country, and nobody else, like retro games? Of course not. By that logic, the Labour party should be very scared - after all, only 13,000 people will vote for them nationwide. Oh, wait, that's highly unlikely, and the actual number is in the tens of millions.

Much like the American convention, this event came very close to filling its venue to its fire safety capacity.

So why didnt they hold it at a venue that could hold thousands? Probably because they wouldn’t fill it.

The Labour Party (as do most other parties in ther UK) hold annual conventions, but believe it or not, it is not easy to find conference centres that can hold more than that number of people and have a meaningful conference, unless you hold it in a soccer stadium, which then becomes a concert, not a conference.

I know that nearly 500 people attend an annual rally for Riley RM cars (built in the 1940s and 1950s) of which no more than 15,000 were ever built, over double the number that attended TFES convention. It does not mean that millions of people know they exist though......

My point is valid still.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2018, 12:05:17 PM »
So why didnt they hold it at a venue that could hold thousands? Probably because they wouldn’t fill it.
Indeed - I would expect nothing else. 200 is a fantastic turnout for a conference of this type.

The Labour Party (as do most other parties in ther UK) hold annual conventions, but believe it or not, it is not easy to find conference centres that can hold more than that number of people and have a meaningful conference, unless you hold it in a soccer stadium, which then becomes a concert, not a conference.
The Labour Party conference did not fill the venue (far from it), so we know that's not a problem. The problem is with your assumption that every Labour supporter will attend the Labour conference. It is patently absurd, and I suspect you realise this much.

You also mistook the conference for the convention - the two are really rather different - but what else would we expect from you at this point?

TFES convention.
Your terrible background research is showing. TFES had nothing to do with the organisation of the event.

My point is valid still.
What point? That you think every FE'er in the UK attended the conference? It's invalid in multiple ways. There are FE'ers who didn't attend the conference, and there are RE'ers who did.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 12:08:02 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Tontogary

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2018, 12:47:35 PM »
I couldn’t really expect more from you.
Where’s did i say that every labour supporter would attend a conference? You assumed i assumed. You know what they say Assume makes an Ass out of you.
Typical straw man argument, as one would expect.

Ok i will let you prove to me that FErs are a big proportion of the UK population. Show me actual figures of FE believers in the uk?

As for saying it was TFES it is easier to type than ‘uks First Flat Earth Convention”

As for the differences between convention and conference, i suggest you consult a dictionary. Both are used for an assembly of people met for a common purpose OR a meeting of 2 or more people for discussion of matters of a common concern. Please can you advise where they are “really rather different” apart from in the eyes of a pedantic.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conference
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/convention

They are both about the same, but then I wouldn’t expect anything else, as being pedantic is the most common form of trying to derail an argument by Fe supporters here.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2018, 04:07:54 PM »
Where’s did i say that every labour supporter would attend a conference? You assumed i assumed.
If your logic is not internally consistent, you're not worth anyone's time. If you believe that the number of the FE convention's attendees strictly equals the number of FE supporters in the UK, you necessarily agree that this carries over to other conferences. If you acknowledge that conference attendance does not automatically equate the number of people with a certain belief or interest, then we no longer need to discuss your "point". In either scenario, you're not looking good.

Ok i will let you prove to me that FErs are a big proportion of the UK population. Show me actual figures of FE believers in the uk?
I have no interest in doing that. I will not disclose things that others don't want disclosed just because it would make you feel warm and fuzzy inside.

As for the differences between convention and conference, i suggest you consult a dictionary.
That would be a waste of your time, given that a party convention and a party conference are very distinct terms in the context of the UK's major parties. A convention is a group of high-ranking officials, while a conference is a public event.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Offline Tontogary

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2018, 10:01:23 PM »
Where’s did i say that every labour supporter would attend a conference? You assumed i assumed.
If your logic is not internally consistent, you're not worth anyone's time. If you believe that the number of the FE convention's attendees strictly equals the number of FE supporters in the UK, you necessarily agree that this carries over to other conferences. If you acknowledge that conference attendance does not automatically equate the number of people with a certain belief or interest, then we no longer need to discuss your "point". In either scenario, you're not looking good.

Ok i will let you prove to me that FErs are a big proportion of the UK population. Show me actual figures of FE believers in the uk?
I have no interest in doing that. I will not disclose things that others don't want disclosed just because it would make you feel warm and fuzzy inside.

As for the differences between convention and conference, i suggest you consult a dictionary.
That would be a waste of your time, given that a party convention and a party conference are very distinct terms in the context of the UK's major parties. A convention is a group of high-ranking officials, while a conference is a public event.

Again typical straw man tactics, telling me what i am thinking.

If you think that telling me the figures will make me feel warm and fuzzy, i guess that confirms that the number is very small, thank you.

And obviously you did not read the dictionary links i sent you. I was not referring to the differences in major party gatherings, again your Strawman.  Pretty much what i expect from you.
Strawman, Dodge, Strawman. Sounds about right.


Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2018, 10:14:16 PM »
If you believe that the number of the FE convention's attendees strictly equals the number of FE supporters in the UK, you necessarily agree that this carries over to other conferences. If you acknowledge that conference attendance does not automatically equate the number of people with a certain belief or interest, then we no longer need to discuss your "point". In either scenario, you're not looking good.

Literally no-one said that every single person who believes in a flat earth in the UK attended this convention so you can stop that straw man nonsense.
But you seem to have this amusing belief that "the tide is turning" and that flat earth belief is soaring. You claimed that extended to the UK.

The first FE Convention in the UK was at the illustrious Jury's Inn, Birmingham in a fairly small room.
Their website is so well maintained that there's still a "Register Now" button on the homepage and the counter is still going (minus 8 days and counting at the time of writing!)
https://www.flatearthconventionuk.co.uk/
Speakers included an NHS manager, a former graphic designer and a Bolton-based dance musician who "claimed Earth is diamond-shaped and supported by pillars".
It's all so embarrassingly low rent for a movement you like to paint as marching unstoppably onwards and upwards.
All the coverage I've seen of it has had a mocking tone.
And about 200 people attended. Now, of course, that doesn't mean there are only 200 people in the whole country who believe in a flat earth, but it does give some indication of the level of interest. Compare and contrast

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Last year's Bronycon in Baltimore attracted more than 8,000 people from every continent - including Antarctica.

No, I'd never heard of that either. What the hell is Bronycon? Apparently:

Quote
Did you ever watch My Little Pony as a child? The themes of friendship and love just made you feel all warm inside, right? But did you know that the animated series of 'My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic' has thousands of grown-up fans worldwide? Well, it's true, and they are called bronies.

Source: http://www.gocompare.com/covered/2014/01/nine-niche-conventions-from-around-the-world/

So that's 8,000 people attending a convention for adult fans of My Little Pony. 8,000.
And your mob managed 200 in some back-water hotel in Birmingham.
Forgive me if I don't take your claims too seriously.

As for you "not disclosing" things - no-one is asking for names and addresses, if you have some statistics on UK flat earthers then that would be interested.
If you don't then fine, but this "I know better than you how brilliantly we're doing but I'm not going to tell you" act is fooling no-one.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2018, 10:35:38 PM »
Literally no-one said that every single person who believes in a flat earth in the UK attended this convention so you can stop that straw man nonsense.
Sorry, that's a lie. Your friend decided to compare conference attendance to self-identification with a group. You were guilty of a similar cock-up before, but you were a better sport about it.

200 out of a population of 70 million, that is 0.000286% of the population, or 1 person for every 300,000 people.

These fringe groups can be found everywhere, in fact, i believe over 800 times more people identified with being a Star Wars Jedi knight in the last UK census!

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Finally, you seem to be under the impression that I care whether or not you consider my behaviour to be an "act", or whether it's "fooling" you. So, for the avoidance of doubt: I don't. I said time and time again that I won't disclose information that others don't want to disclose it. This is not changing.

After all, what difference does it make if a few angry people on the Internet are convinced that we're growing? You're neither stifling nor helping our growth - surely you'll agree that my focus is better placed elsewhere.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 10:38:10 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2018, 11:13:50 PM »
My friend (?!) just gave how many people attended the conference as a percentage of the UK population.
He made no claim as far as I could see that no-one else in the country shared the belief of those 200 people.
But as I said, it is an indication of the popularity or lack thereof in the UK.

I'm pretty happy that I didn't know what "bronies" were. Maybe that's more of a thing overseas, in the UK...I'd honestly never heard of it.
I can ask around to see if anyone I know had heard of them. I'm guessing not but maybe this is my ignorance.
If it is then I think I can live with the fact that I didn't know what adult fans of My Little Pony were called.

I'm under no impression that you care what I think. But saying "1 in x people in the UK believe..." is not disclosing any information about anyone.
It's just stating a statistic which, if you can back it up with a source, informs this discussion.
If you can't do that then fine, maybe there's not much research about this in the UK. But give it a rest with the pretence that you are doing so for some unwillingness to "disclose information".

Do I believe you're growing? Yes, I can believe that. Interest in flat earth has indisputably risen of late. But most of that interest is people incredulous or amused about it.
Look at this place. I see new people signing up all the time, mostly trolls or people like me who are just interested that this is a thing, have seen some of the debates and wanted to chip in.

Claims that the "tide is turning" make you sound like a right Cnut*

*that is quite a clever joke, you know.
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

Offline Tontogary

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Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2018, 04:09:02 AM »
Literally no-one said that every single person who believes in a flat earth in the UK attended this convention so you can stop that straw man nonsense.
Sorry, that's a lie. Your friend decided to compare conference attendance to self-identification with a group. You were guilty of a similar cock-up before, but you were a better sport about it.

200 out of a population of 70 million, that is 0.000286% of the population, or 1 person for every 300,000 people.

These fringe groups can be found everywhere, in fact, i believe over 800 times more people identified with being a Star Wars Jedi knight in the last UK census!

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Finally, you seem to be under the impression that I care whether or not you consider my behaviour to be an "act", or whether it's "fooling" you. So, for the avoidance of doubt: I don't. I said time and time again that I won't disclose information that others don't want to disclose it. This is not changing.

After all, what difference does it make if a few angry people on the Internet are convinced that we're growing? You're neither stifling nor helping our growth - surely you'll agree that my focus is better placed elsewhere.

Dont forget it was you who brought up the link between political party attendances and the gathering of the flat earth followers in the UK, not me.

Are you seriously saying I have a poor understanding of the world around me because i dont know what a “brony” is? Really, that is the most absurd jump to a conclusion i have heard in a long while.

I spend half my life at sea, working for a living, and dont have time to spend watching “My little pony” as we dont get TV here, although I have seen adverts on TV for the little horse toys for kids, I am guessing it is the same thing. I didnt watch those programmes when i was a child, i was too busy out in the real world, and in any case wehy would not knowing about that fantasy programme for kids in any way indicate indicate I have a poor knowledge of the world around me?


As for the world around me it consists of oceans, stars (yes that i can actually see, and observe the different relative motions, such as a rotation around the South Pole) sunsets and sunrises, (that don’t disappear in a moment, like is supposed to happen with a “vanishing point” or with “perspective”) i see meteors, satellites, and other celestial phenomena, It includes seeing Polaris rising north of the equator, never below it, and sees me using instruments to measure the suns angular size. (Which does not change hourly by the way) and celestial observations to plot my position, ANYWHERE on the globe earth.
It involves the use of accurate, and reliable GPS to political my positions, calculating distances between distant points around the earth, and verifying them by steaming at a certain speed to get to where i need to be, at a given time.

I understand Archimedes principle of floatation, and about spherical trigonometry and navigational systems

I know the boiling temperature of Methane, Propane, N butane and ISO butane, and how to carry them, and deliver them, along with the properties and ways to carry crude oils and products.

Which is all a good thing for you, otherwise you wouldn’t have light, heat, plastics, transport, internet, food, medicines Television, and a whole bunch of other things.

All of these things I observe around me, which is the real physical world around me.

Most of the above you FEers seem to not understand or say is fake.

If you want to use the fact that you know about a bunch of adults who watch an animated kids programme and go to a convention is proof that you have a better understanding of the world around you, then I am happy in my ignorance, and rather thankful that I live in the real (you know the physical one) world, rather than some fantasy land....
You have just removed any shred of credibility you might have had by your statement, which is about Par for the course from what I really expect to hear from TFES members.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.