So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« on: May 05, 2018, 07:57:19 AM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 08:22:37 AM by Globeman »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Offline Tontogary

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2018, 09:08:04 AM »
But the Wiki is not logical (is it ever??)

There is quote attributed to LBJ way before he became president that opines that control of space is control of the world.

The Wiki says that NASA has faked space travel only, not that space travel is impossible, and Nasa is not trying to convince anyone of the shape of the world, only to fake space travel.

If Nasa has faked space travel, then they have not been to space and (presumably) no one has, therefore there is no control of space, and therefore the world, then why fake space travel?
Space travel would mean actual control of the world, (if you believe the far fetched quote from LBJ), and as no one has been into space, why spend billions of dollars faking something you cannot do, and cannot be achievable, and has not achieved what you thought it might, i.e. control of the world?

Unless one is deluded enough to think Nasa, and the US has control of the world? In which case they can reverse global warming, if they wish, and hold the rest of the world to ransom much more effectively by promising to fix any climate issues a region may have.

Surely actual control of space would be a greater prize other than faking it. In any case the US does not have the monopoly on space unless you have noticed, so the conspiracy has not worked.

In any event the use of the quote by LBJ is useless and circulatory to the argument the Wiki is trying to uphold....

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2018, 09:39:36 AM »
But the Wiki is not logical (is it ever??)

There is quote attributed to LBJ way before he became president that opines that control of space is control of the world.

The Wiki says that NASA has faked space travel only, not that space travel is impossible, and Nasa is not trying to convince anyone of the shape of the world, only to fake space travel.

If Nasa has faked space travel, then they have not been to space and (presumably) no one has, therefore there is no control of space, and therefore the world, then why fake space travel?
Space travel would mean actual control of the world, (if you believe the far fetched quote from LBJ), and as no one has been into space, why spend billions of dollars faking something you cannot do, and cannot be achievable, and has not achieved what you thought it might, i.e. control of the world?

Unless one is deluded enough to think Nasa, and the US has control of the world? In which case they can reverse global warming, if they wish, and hold the rest of the world to ransom much more effectively by promising to fix any climate issues a region may have.

Surely actual control of space would be a greater prize other than faking it. In any case the US does not have the monopoly on space unless you have noticed, so the conspiracy has not worked.

In any event the use of the quote by LBJ is useless and circulatory to the argument the Wiki is trying to uphold....

Just a simple reply would have sufficed  ::)

Offline Tontogary

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2018, 10:16:17 AM »
But the Wiki is not logical (is it ever??)

There is quote attributed to LBJ way before he became president that opines that control of space is control of the world.

The Wiki says that NASA has faked space travel only, not that space travel is impossible, and Nasa is not trying to convince anyone of the shape of the world, only to fake space travel.

If Nasa has faked space travel, then they have not been to space and (presumably) no one has, therefore there is no control of space, and therefore the world, then why fake space travel?
Space travel would mean actual control of the world, (if you believe the far fetched quote from LBJ), and as no one has been into space, why spend billions of dollars faking something you cannot do, and cannot be achievable, and has not achieved what you thought it might, i.e. control of the world?

Unless one is deluded enough to think Nasa, and the US has control of the world? In which case they can reverse global warming, if they wish, and hold the rest of the world to ransom much more effectively by promising to fix any climate issues a region may have.

Surely actual control of space would be a greater prize other than faking it. In any case the US does not have the monopoly on space unless you have noticed, so the conspiracy has not worked.

In any event the use of the quote by LBJ is useless and circulatory to the argument the Wiki is trying to uphold....

Just a simple reply would have sufficed  ::)

Sorry i was replying to Pete, as the normal response to questions like the OPs is to post a link to the Wiki, in the hope that it answers all questions, when in fact, to a free thinking individual, and anyone with an inquisitive mind the Wiki has almost no answers.

So my point still stands, that the Wiki does not answer the OP, and is less than adequate in explaining the conspiracy theory, or the reasons behind it.

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2018, 10:26:43 AM »
But the Wiki is not logical (is it ever??)

There is quote attributed to LBJ way before he became president that opines that control of space is control of the world.

The Wiki says that NASA has faked space travel only, not that space travel is impossible, and Nasa is not trying to convince anyone of the shape of the world, only to fake space travel.

If Nasa has faked space travel, then they have not been to space and (presumably) no one has, therefore there is no control of space, and therefore the world, then why fake space travel?
Space travel would mean actual control of the world, (if you believe the far fetched quote from LBJ), and as no one has been into space, why spend billions of dollars faking something you cannot do, and cannot be achievable, and has not achieved what you thought it might, i.e. control of the world?

Unless one is deluded enough to think Nasa, and the US has control of the world? In which case they can reverse global warming, if they wish, and hold the rest of the world to ransom much more effectively by promising to fix any climate issues a region may have.

Surely actual control of space would be a greater prize other than faking it. In any case the US does not have the monopoly on space unless you have noticed, so the conspiracy has not worked.

In any event the use of the quote by LBJ is useless and circulatory to the argument the Wiki is trying to uphold....

Just a simple reply would have sufficed  ::)

Sorry i was replying to Pete, as the normal response to questions like the OPs is to post a link to the Wiki, in the hope that it answers all questions, when in fact, to a free thinking individual, and anyone with an inquisitive mind the Wiki has almost no answers.

So my point still stands, that the Wiki does not answer the OP, and is less than adequate in explaining the conspiracy theory, or the reasons behind it.

Aaaah yes I see now  ;D

Offline jimbob

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2018, 10:42:51 AM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.
Note: Not just our government but America's, Russia's and China's. This conspiracy would require tremendous cooperation between them and if the media is to be believed, they aren’t exactly all best buddies. Even if for the sake of argument they are all sleeping together, I doubt they would be competent enough to pull it off (with the exception of Putin). Our Government definately couldnt as they seem to be struggling to hold things together......dont get me started.

Offline jcks

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2018, 12:01:59 PM »
If Nasa has faked space travel, then they have not been to space and (presumably) no one has, therefore there is no control of space, and therefore the world, then why fake space travel?
Space travel would mean actual control of the world, (if you believe the far fetched quote from LBJ), and as no one has been into space, why spend billions of dollars faking something you cannot do, and cannot be achievable, and has not achieved what you thought it might, i.e. control of the world?

They probably believe lying is good enough and that the rest of the world won't call their bluff. So the US has an imaginary power boost to it's military because everyone thinks we're in space, when in reality we're just spending millions of dollars a year to keep up the facade.

Funny, that having fake control over space did nothing to give us control over the world.  North Korea still threatened us with ballistic missiles, Russia hacked our elections, 9/11 still happened (hesistant to mention this one as it can just be written off as another conspiracy). All of these things would be silly thing to do against a nation who controls space and thus the world. And yet other nations continue to disrespect our supposed authority.

Just what kind of military dominance are we paying for?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 12:03:51 PM by jcks »

Offline Tontogary

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2018, 12:30:48 PM »
If Nasa has faked space travel, then they have not been to space and (presumably) no one has, therefore there is no control of space, and therefore the world, then why fake space travel?
Space travel would mean actual control of the world, (if you believe the far fetched quote from LBJ), and as no one has been into space, why spend billions of dollars faking something you cannot do, and cannot be achievable, and has not achieved what you thought it might, i.e. control of the world?

They probably believe lying is good enough and that the rest of the world won't call their bluff. So the US has an imaginary power boost to it's military because everyone thinks we're in space, when in reality we're just spending millions of dollars a year to keep up the facade.

Funny, that having fake control over space did nothing to give us control over the world.  North Korea still threatened us with ballistic missiles, Russia hacked our elections, 9/11 still happened (hesistant to mention this one as it can just be written off as another conspiracy). All of these things would be silly thing to do against a nation who controls space and thus the world. And yet other nations continue to disrespect our supposed authority.

Just what kind of military dominance are we paying for?

It would make sense to admit the lying and spend the money instead on Defense or a strong missile Defense......
But wait, with space travel not possible, doesn’t that make the threat of ICBMs moot?
Why then have regiments of them to defend against regiments of similar from Russia, China (and more recently, N.Korea) when if space travel was not possible, there would be no threat from the other nations.......
A more robust conventional military would be needed, and all the money saved on those “fake” space programmes could build dozens of aircraft carriers, employ hundreds of thousands of military, as well as civilian people, and create millions of jobs to boost the economy, and keep a population happy, and vote the same politicians in power.
So remind me again of the pros for a fake space travel programme?
As opposed to coming clean and having the money to be the most dominant power on earth, and keep the power hungry politicians in power.....

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2018, 02:55:17 PM »
The government is made up of people like us. Why would they spend trillions to make and cover up the 'lie' that the world is round when there is no gain at all from it??

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2018, 03:50:18 PM »
The funniest assertion is that all the scientists in NASA haven't figured out the true shape of the earth but a handful of conspiracy nuts have cracked it.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2018, 06:12:07 PM »
The funniest assertion is that all the scientists in NASA haven't figured out the true shape of the earth but a handful of conspiracy nuts have cracked it.
The biggest proof for me against the conspiracy theory, is as someone mentioned, that every one talks about NASA without considering the other space faring nations. The Soviets have a space program, China has a space program, why would they align themselves with the USA.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2018, 07:10:56 PM »
spend trillions
no gain

Trillions of dollars (your estimation, not mine) doesn't count as potential gain?

The biggest proof for me against the conspiracy theory, is as someone mentioned, that every one talks about NASA without considering the other space faring nations. The Soviets have a space program, China has a space program, why would they align themselves with the USA.
Because those working in space agencies aren't motivated by geopolitical concerns, and are instead typically more concerned with securing and protecting their funding and cushy jobs. This is true regardless of nation.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

I have embraced my Benny Franko side. I'm sleazy.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2018, 08:05:22 PM »

[/quote]
Because those working in space agencies aren't motivated by geopolitical concerns, and are instead typically more concerned with securing and protecting their funding and cushy jobs. This is true regardless of nation.
[/quote]
You are a bit naive if you think that is how Russia operates. Democratic election? Someone other than Putin having control on things. If Putin said the Earth was flat, the "electorate" would just have to learn to love it....no questions asked.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2018, 08:25:29 PM »
You are a bit naive if you think that is how Russia operates. Democratic election? Someone other than Putin having control on things. If Putin said the Earth was flat, the "electorate" would just have to learn to love it....no questions asked.
Do you think Putin has time in his day to go personally inspect the space agency and verify their work? Does he have the expertise to do that? Or the motivation?
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

I have embraced my Benny Franko side. I'm sleazy.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2018, 08:36:25 PM »
NASA didn't put up the satellites which make my Sky TV work, nor did Russia, it was the European space agency.
Is the suggestion that they faked that and are somehow fooling Sky into thinking that their TV signals are broadcast via a satellite?
Or are Sky complicit?
It's all too silly...
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2018, 08:57:52 PM »
I get television from the Sky so the earth is round.
They could tell you the TV was powered by magic pixies, you wouldn't know. I'm not sure what your argument is. I have no way of knowing the relationship of the ESA and Sky TV, how would I have anyway of knowing that?

Rampant speculation isn't an argument.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

I have embraced my Benny Franko side. I'm sleazy.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2018, 09:22:44 PM »
Rampant speculation isn't an argument.
Neither is your straw man stuff. Sky TV doesn't mean the world is round. I didn't say that.
It's actually the other way around. Because the world is round we have Sky, and GPS, and the ISS, and astronauts, and space tourists etc...
If you're going to claim the earth is flat despite all of science and empirical evidence showing that to be wrong and as an extension of that you're going to claim that satellites don't exist then you have to have some explanation for these things. And the FE explanation for these things is, to coin a phrase, rampant speculation with little or no actual evidence.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2018, 09:50:53 PM »
If you're going to claim the earth is flat despite all of science and empirical evidence showing that to be wrong and as an extension of that you're going to claim that satellites don't exist then you have to have some explanation for these things. And the FE explanation for these things is, to coin a phrase, rampant speculation with little or no actual evidence.
First, in all my years discussing the shape of the earth, I've never found any valid evidence for Round Earth Theory. Please present it if you have it.

What do I need to explain? I don't remember claiming satellites don't exist, and I'm not interested in explaining how you get TV either because how the fuck would I know that? You're closer to the TV, you look.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

I have embraced my Benny Franko side. I'm sleazy.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2018, 10:05:49 PM »
First, in all my years discussing the shape of the earth, I've never found any valid evidence for Round Earth Theory. Please present it if you have it.
Well, I'm probably wasting my time but fine, you asked. Where is the bottom of the ship if the earth is flat?:



And of course there's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Marble

Quote
What do I need to explain? I don't remember claiming satellites don't exist
Many flat earthers do not believe that satellites are possible. By definition satellites are orbiting the earth (this remains true if they're in geostationary orbit, in that case they just happen to be going at the right speed to synchronise with the rotation of the earth). I'm not sure how satellites would work were the earth flat, but GPS demonstrably works, Satellite TV demonstrably works. If you believe the earth to be flat you must have some explanation. Just saying "I don't know" is not a particularly satisfactory response.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.