Offline jcks

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2018, 10:12:22 PM »
You are a bit naive if you think that is how Russia operates. Democratic election? Someone other than Putin having control on things. If Putin said the Earth was flat, the "electorate" would just have to learn to love it....no questions asked.
Do you think Putin has time in his day to go personally inspect the space agency and verify their work? Does he have the expertise to do that? Or the motivation?

Do you think putin has the resources to keep pouring money into a program that produces 0 results?

I wish someone would pay me to do my job and then not question my methods or expect deliverables.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 12:59:04 PM by jcks »

Offline SiDawg

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2018, 01:33:22 AM »
in all my years discussing the shape of the earth, I've never found any valid evidence for Round Earth Theory. Please present it if you have it.

Oh really? OK cool
  • Thousands of photographs, being produced every 10 minutes, of the ENTIRE globe (not just stitched together) https://himawari8.nict.go.jp/ I can literally look out my window and see the weather this satelite photo is showing me. 10 minutes seems pretty quick to gather information from ground observation and draw a fake image
  • Countless videos of ships disapearing on the horizon. Yes refraction can mean the calculations don't match the observation (some times stuff is visible that shouldnt be), but they can't explain the opposite (flat earth says all the stuff should be visible, but clearly isnt) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKF7D7XsyTA&t=2s

Then there's further evidence to support the hypothesis:

  • Sunrise and Sunset (and no, perspective does NOT result in sunrise/sunset in flat earth model, that is obsurd https://imgur.com/a/CSG38fL)
  • The Eotvos effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%C3%B6tv%C3%B6s_effect
  • Different stars in north vs southern hemisphere (again, perspective does not explain that)
  • Millions of ships navigating the ocean and circumnavigating the globe without getting lost (requires an accurate model of the globe)
  • Satelite dishes that point to the sky, not to a land based antennas (because satelites exist)
  • Newtons Law of Universal Gravitation - explains why the earth is a globe and how matter naturally "squeezes" itself in to that shape, just like every other object in the universe
  • The motion of the planets in the sky is consistent with our understanding of gravity, and no just random nonsensical squigly paths in the sky

Hmm that's just what I can think of before lunch. As for reasons why the flat earth model is completely wrong... that's a really really long post. But hey this post is probably entirely pointless anyway: thats why this debate section exists, so we can address one problem at a time.
Quote from: Round Eyes
Long range, high altitude, potentially solar powered airplanes [...] If the planes are travelling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2018, 04:03:55 PM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.
Hi y'all. I am a typical GENIUS girl who does NOT follow the masses and who does NOT blindly accept what is told to me without EVIDENCE. That being said, I don't believe in a lot of "facts" (the quotations mean they're NOT actual facts) including evolution, the holocaust, and the globular earth HYPOTHESIS.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2018, 04:51:16 PM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.
Please tell us how satellite tv works.

Offline jcks

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2018, 04:58:07 PM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.

The space race was between 1957 - 1975. Photoshop debuted in 1987.

Explain how the fake images were created.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2018, 07:07:02 PM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.
Hi y'all. I am a typical GENIUS girl who does NOT follow the masses and who does NOT blindly accept what is told to me without EVIDENCE. That being said, I don't believe in a lot of "facts" (the quotations mean they're NOT actual facts) including evolution, the holocaust, and the globular earth HYPOTHESIS.
The space race was between the Russians and the Americans, how do think the Chinese fit in with that? were they just feeling left out.
ps The holocaust happened and anyone who said it didnt............is a piece of work
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 08:55:47 PM by limprichard »

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2018, 07:07:21 AM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.

Cool. Now if we could just see some evidence of that rather than wild assertions. Thanks.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline ShowmetheProof

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2018, 12:19:43 PM »
I like how TFE theory is built on the Government/Scientists lying to us.

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Offline Spycrab

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2018, 01:18:09 PM »
The moon landing would've been physically impossible to fake
CGI wasn't invented until 1976, the moon landing happened in 1969.
The shadows in the photos are parallel, which doesn't happen with studio/earth lighting.
There are retroreflectors on the moon*
Dang, it's almost like we actually went there, and it wasn't a hoax.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment
The espionage crustacean strikes again.
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Offline ShowmetheProof

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2018, 01:50:44 PM »
The moon landing conspiracy has been debunked many times.  It was so easy to debunk it was on Adam Ruins Everything.  If you can debunk it easily in layman's terms, it probably isn't true.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2018, 01:54:18 PM »
The moon landing would've been physically impossible to fake
CGI wasn't invented until 1976, the moon landing happened in 1969.
The shadows in the photos are parallel, which doesn't happen with studio/earth lighting.
There are retroreflectors on the moon*
Dang, it's almost like we actually went there, and it wasn't a hoax.

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment
It's been posited that the retro-reflectors could be naturally occurring, or (admittedly less seriously) that such a test isn't even possible and is something from the realm of TV and fantasy. The first I assume creates plausibility in some minds, because no records of it prior is just because no one tried, and there are technically examples of such things occurring in nature. But I don't presently recall a 'response' about them beyond those two.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2018, 06:20:48 PM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.

The space race was between 1957 - 1975. Photoshop debuted in 1987.

Explain how the fake images were created.

You do realize that the tools in Photoshop are just digital replications of the tools and processes that have existed in art studios for many years. Slice, erase, burn, sponge, smudge, et cetera.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2018, 06:25:52 PM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.

The space race was between 1957 - 1975. Photoshop debuted in 1987.

Explain how the fake images were created.

You do realize that the tools in Photoshop are just digital replications of the tools and processes that have existed in art studios for many years. Slice, erase, burn, sponge, smudge, et cetera.
Those are tools that were used for paintings and sketches. Film is slightly different from those.
Recommended reading: We Have No Idea by Jorge Cham and Daniel Whiteson

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2018, 06:36:42 PM »
You do realize that the tools in Photoshop are just digital replications of the tools and processes that have existed in art studios for many years. Slice, erase, burn, sponge, smudge, et cetera.
Do you actually have any evidence that the moon landings were faked? I've seen a fair but of wild speculation and on other non flat earth sites which also claim this was faked (but don't believe in a flat earth) I've seen a load of spurious things like "how come you can't see the stars in the photos" (exposure levels) and "why aren't the shadows all the same angle" (the landscape wasn't completely flat) and "why is the flag waving" (it isn't, there was a rod along the top so it didn't just hang limp, it just flaps when they screw it into the surface).
These are all spurious objections from people who, frankly, don't know much about the moon landings.
If you want to learn more about the Apollo programme then I can recommend "Man On The Moon" by Andrew Chaikin.
Read that and then come back and tell me that the level of detail in that book could have been realistically faked.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline jcks

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2018, 07:19:44 PM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.

The space race was between 1957 - 1975. Photoshop debuted in 1987.

Explain how the fake images were created.

You do realize that the tools in Photoshop are just digital replications of the tools and processes that have existed in art studios for many years. Slice, erase, burn, sponge, smudge, et cetera.

And how would you use those techniques to modify a photograph in the real world? Without it looking blatantly obvious.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2018, 08:19:27 PM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.

The space race was between 1957 - 1975. Photoshop debuted in 1987.

Explain how the fake images were created.

You do realize that the tools in Photoshop are just digital replications of the tools and processes that have existed in art studios for many years. Slice, erase, burn, sponge, smudge, et cetera.

And how would you use those techniques to modify a photograph in the real world? Without it looking blatantly obvious.

The quality of any art piece is primarily dependent on skill of the artist, just as the quality of any Photoshop piece is dependent on the artist's skill.

Offline jcks

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2018, 08:54:57 PM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.

The space race was between 1957 - 1975. Photoshop debuted in 1987.

Explain how the fake images were created.

You do realize that the tools in Photoshop are just digital replications of the tools and processes that have existed in art studios for many years. Slice, erase, burn, sponge, smudge, et cetera.

And how would you use those techniques to modify a photograph in the real world? Without it looking blatantly obvious.

The quality of any art piece is primarily dependent on skill of the artist, just as the quality of any Photoshop piece is dependent on the artist's skill.

This is a valid observation but it fails to answer the question.

How could you apply any of those techniques to a photograph without leaving a trace?

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2018, 09:02:56 PM »
why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.

The space race was between 1957 - 1975. Photoshop debuted in 1987.

Explain how the fake images were created.

You do realize that the tools in Photoshop are just digital replications of the tools and processes that have existed in art studios for many years. Slice, erase, burn, sponge, smudge, et cetera.

And how would you use those techniques to modify a photograph in the real world? Without it looking blatantly obvious.

The quality of any art piece is primarily dependent on skill of the artist, just as the quality of any Photoshop piece is dependent on the artist's skill.
Well, they would need to make animations, with take notoriously long, that totaled some 180 hours of live footage for each of six Moon landings, in only 11 years. Ponder how long the release cycle is for a modern animated 2-hour feature and consider if that's possible.

Speaking of animated features, take a look at a few of these and tell me how that quality could make even a remotely convincing Moon landing.
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Turtle Town, a game made by my brothers and their friends, is now in private beta for the demo! Feedback so far has been mostly positive. Contact me if you would like to play.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2018, 09:12:32 PM »

I'm not defending a video I did not make and can not verify the integrity of. I prefer the Scientific Method to posting Youtube videos. Maybe science curriculum's have changed from when I was in school.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Marble
If you just want to post links and not explain we're not going anywhere fast.

Many flat earthers do not believe that satellites are possible. By definition satellites are orbiting the earth (this remains true if they're in geostationary orbit, in that case they just happen to be going at the right speed to synchronise with the rotation of the earth). I'm not sure how satellites would work were the earth flat, but GPS demonstrably works, Satellite TV demonstrably works. If you believe the earth to be flat you must have some explanation. Just saying "I don't know" is not a particularly satisfactory response.
You have devices that are in the sky, out of sight, relaying signals back and forth. I'm not sure why you think this requires orbiting the earth. If the TV installer told you it was run by magic pixies would you discount the "satellites orbiting earth theory" simply because the pixies theory was told to your first?
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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2018, 09:12:36 PM »
Do you think putin has the resources to keep pouring money into a program that produces 0 results?
Why are you claiming that the Russian Space Agency produces zero results? National prestige, new technology, economic stimulus. There's loads of reasons to keep giving them money completely irrelevant to the earth's shape.
You don't think I'm going to post here sober, do you?  ???

I have embraced my Benny Franko side. I'm sleazy.