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Offline Rushy

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2015, 10:23:24 PM »
Are you denying the possibility of ETs, or just that they have visited Earth? If it's the latter, then I agree with you.

There is no evidence that they exist. Feel free to spam the ol' argument from probability thing, where you state the innumerable amount of planets in the universe and then state they have to exist. It's a fallacious argument made by people who want aliens to exist. Even to say "it is probable that aliens exist" is nonsense.

I pulled it out of my ass just like everyone does when they consider if interstellar alien civilizations exist or not.

You'd be surprised at the amount of people who quote the Drake equation like it is a totally legit thing that should be accepted by everyone.

Ghost of V

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2015, 10:31:44 PM »
Are you denying the possibility of ETs, or just that they have visited Earth? If it's the latter, then I agree with you.

There is no evidence that they exist. Feel free to spam the ol' argument from probability thing, where you state the innumerable amount of planets in the universe and then state they have to exist. It's a fallacious argument made by people who want aliens to exist. Even to say "it is probable that aliens exist" is nonsense.

If you are familiar with modern science then I think it's absolutely naive to say that aliens don't exist. Isn't our existence evidence of aliens? If not, why not? It's a miracle that we exist to begin with. In RET, we are in the goldilocks zone and there are thousands of other planets probably in that zone as well... I think they've even found a couple (somehow). You can say that the Drake equation is bullshit, but even if the numbers are incorrect the odds are still incredibly high. I think you know this, however, and that you're just trying to bait me.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2015, 10:46:52 PM »
Well, from a purely scientific point of view, aliens actually don't exist. You can't calculate probability for something that hasn't happened.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 10:49:43 PM by Andrew »
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Ghost of V

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #63 on: April 03, 2015, 10:51:19 PM »
Well, from a purely scientific point of view, aliens actually don't exist. You can't calculate probability for something that hasn't happened.

It has happened though.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #64 on: April 03, 2015, 10:55:13 PM »
Well, from a purely scientific point of view, aliens actually don't exist. You can't calculate probability for something that hasn't happened.

It has happened though.

You must be way ahead of the entire scientific community then. Where did you get evidence for alien life?
I stopped going to the gym because of Trump. Now I can't open jars

Ghost of V

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #65 on: April 03, 2015, 10:59:10 PM »
Well, from a purely scientific point of view, aliens actually don't exist. You can't calculate probability for something that hasn't happened.

It has happened though.

You must be way ahead of the entire scientific community then. Where did you get evidence for alien life?

Life on Earth is evidence that alien life exists. We are not special. That's all alien life is, life. This is all assuming that RET is correct, so let's operate within that fantasy for now. We've found signs of water on other planets, even some within our solar system. Water is an important component for life as we know it. If water exists on other planets... and life exists on this one... I don't see why that wouldn't be the case somewhere else in the universe. You'll also find that most scientists will admit that alien life is probably out there.. it's a fallacy, I guess, but all signs point to: yes! No one wants to say aliens exists 100%, but I really don't see any reason not to provided we trust modern science and interstellar findings.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2015, 11:14:39 PM »
Actually, I'm specifically referring to life outside our solar system. And this is important because, in order for something to be scientific, there have to be multiple tests, incidents, or occurrences. So no, the belief that life exists outside of our solar system is essentially non-scientific.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2015, 11:22:18 PM »
You can't calculate probability for something that hasn't happened.

The only events requiring any sort of serious probability calculation are those that have not happened.   If an event has occurred it's probability is 1 and no calculation is necessary.

Well, from a purely scientific point of view, aliens actually don't exist. You can't calculate probability for something that hasn't happened.

This is all kinds of wrong. The only events requiring any sort of serious probability calculation are those that have not happened.   If an event has occurred it's probability is 1 and no calculation is necessary.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Ghost of V

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2015, 11:25:09 PM »
Actually, I'm specifically referring to life outside our solar system.

Why though? I maintain the premise that life on Earth is evidence that alien life exists outside our solar system. No calculations are needed. It has already happened on Earth. We would be aliens to another species, so I really don't see what difference it makes. If you're going to move the goalpost, then technically you believe that it's scientific to state that life exists on other planets in our own solar system... if I'm understanding your logic. But again, you're just moving the goalpost. I think my premise is quite sound.


Life exists on Earth, there are other planets like Earth outside our solar system... it would then be unscientific to not consider the possibility of life on those planets. Or would you prefer we just quit the search completely because "life hasn't been detected 100% outside our solar system therefore it's unscientific"?

The point you seem to be missing is that if life can develop here... why wouldn't it develop somewhere else under similar (in some cases, almost identical) conditions?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 11:28:40 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline Tau

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2015, 11:27:49 PM »
Well, from a purely scientific point of view, aliens actually don't exist. You can't calculate probability for something that hasn't happened.

"Can't calculate probability" isn't mean "doesn't exist". Saying that something doesn't exist implies a 0% probability. If you can't give a probability, you just don't know. Science is alright with not knowing things.
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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2015, 11:32:06 PM »
Life exists on Earth, there are other planets like Earth outside our solar system...

Which planet in the Gliese 581 system is "like Earth" in any meaningful way?
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Ghost of V

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #71 on: April 03, 2015, 11:38:57 PM »
Life exists on Earth, there are other planets like Earth outside our solar system...

Which planet in the Gliese 581 system is "like Earth" in any meaningful way?

Upon further reading, it looks like the Gliese planets have been taken off the hospitable planets list. Looks like a recent decision too.
But there are a whole slew of others.

Kepler-296f looks promising, since it is in the hospitable zone.

The point being, they are out there. Whether or not life exists on these planets is subject to further investigation, but it's certainly a possibility. And it's certainly not "unscientific" to explore this possibility.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 11:43:54 PM by Vauxhall »

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2015, 11:44:12 PM »
Nobody is arguing that it isn't a possibility.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Ghost of V

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #73 on: April 03, 2015, 11:46:45 PM »
Nobody is arguing that it isn't a possibility.

Then what's your point, PP2?

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #74 on: April 03, 2015, 11:49:13 PM »
There is no evidence of alien life. Life on Earth is not evidence of anything apart from life on Earth.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #75 on: April 03, 2015, 11:49:19 PM »
The only events requiring any sort of serious probability calculation are those that have not happened.

 Then I'd like you to give me a probability calculation for something that has not happened.
I stopped going to the gym because of Trump. Now I can't open jars

Ghost of V

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2015, 11:54:33 PM »
There is no evidence of alien life. Life on Earth is not evidence of anything apart from life on Earth.

It's evidence that life exists in the universe and it's outrageous to suggest that we're the only ones experiencing it given how large the universe is. Sure, there is no evidence of life outside Earth, but it's not unscientific to suggest that it's a possibility.

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #77 on: April 03, 2015, 11:58:51 PM »
Sure, there is no evidence of life outside Earth, but it's not unscientific to suggest that it's a possibility.

Right.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Ghost of V

Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #78 on: April 04, 2015, 12:03:16 AM »
The only events requiring any sort of serious probability calculation are those that have not happened.

 Then I'd like you to give me a probability calculation for something that has not happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Bill Nye debates Ken Ham on Creationism
« Reply #79 on: April 04, 2015, 12:17:05 AM »
The only events requiring any sort of serious probability calculation are those that have not happened.

 Then I'd like you to give me a probability calculation for something that has not happened.

I am about to flip a coin. The probability that it will land with heads side up is 1/2.

You don't get races of anything ... accept people.