Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #80 on: May 09, 2018, 09:27:16 PM »
You keep just stating your premise (this ridiculous orbiting satellite theory) as a fact.


Well. I have a satellite dish which is pointing at something in the sky. That thing is said to be a geostationary satellite above the equator.
On a recent work trip to Sri Lanka, which is much closer to the equator than England, I noticed that the dishes there point up at a noticeably steeper angle than they do in the UK.
I also have observed that when my neighbour put up scaffolding to do some work on his house it blocked the signal to my dish.
So, my dish is pointing at something which it is is receiving a signal from. That is indisputable.

Quote
I have demonstrated, over and again, that satellites orbiting the earth are not needed for TV.

You haven't demonstrated anything. Of course there are other ways of receiving TV. Cable. Arial, now over the internet. None of that is relevant though, what is relevant is that satellite dishes demonstrably point at something - that can be demonstrated by observing that my satellite TV stops working if something blocks its clear line of sight to that something.
And that something is in the sky which can be demonstrated by the angle that these dishes point at which is at a steeper angle the nearer to the equator you go.

If you are suggesting that the something which my dish is pointing at is not a geostationary satellite then you need to provide some evidence for an alternative technology which would allow something to hover in a fixed location for many years. It must be fixed, if a dish is knocked then you lose signal, the angle has to be precise which demonstrates that the thing it is pointing at is in a fixed location. You have yet to suggest what that could be or provide any evidence for how it would work.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #81 on: May 09, 2018, 10:46:14 PM »
Their mandate does not include determining the shape of the world, but they did so on the way.
Okay, but the political reasons an organization gets funding are never as simple as "so they can fulfill their mandate". There's a whole host of things that go into it that you can lean all about at your local community college's Political Science department. Or go back earlier into the thread for a brief discussion of motivations for a space agency beyond the shape of the earth.


You've already been shown photos of satellites from the ground. That gives you the burden of proof.
Are you just fucking with me now? Because you googled a picture of a satellite dish the burden of proof for explaining how it works is on me? We've established it's well within the realm of existing technologies to receive signals without the use of satellites orbiting a round earth. As for the specific mechanism in the case of this (admittedly random and possibly non-existent) dish, how should I know? Must I now individually explain every wackjob that claims to get internet by space, magic pixies, or dragons? You're making the claims, but failing to provide evidence.

If you are suggesting that the something which my dish is pointing at is not a geostationary satellite then you need to provide some evidence for an alternative technology which would allow something to hover in a fixed location for many years. It must be fixed, if a dish is knocked then you lose signal, the angle has to be precise which demonstrates that the thing it is pointing at is in a fixed location. You have yet to suggest what that could be or provide any evidence for how it would work.
You're the one presenting your premise (space-faring satellites orbiting a round earth) as fact. If you want to make the claim it's space-faring satellites, you need to prove your claim.
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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #82 on: May 09, 2018, 10:56:40 PM »
Their mandate does not include determining the shape of the world, but they did so on the way.
Okay, but the political reasons an organization gets funding are never as simple as "so they can fulfill their mandate". There's a whole host of things that go into it that you can lean all about at your local community college's Political Science department. Or go back earlier into the thread for a brief discussion of motivations for a space agency beyond the shape of the earth.


You've already been shown photos of satellites from the ground. That gives you the burden of proof.
Are you just fucking with me now? Because you googled a picture of a satellite dish the burden of proof for explaining how it works is on me? We've established it's well within the realm of existing technologies to receive signals without the use of satellites orbiting a round earth. As for the specific mechanism in the case of this (admittedly random and possibly non-existent) dish, how should I know? Must I now individually explain every wackjob that claims to get internet by space, magic pixies, or dragons? You're making the claims, but failing to provide evidence.

If you are suggesting that the something which my dish is pointing at is not a geostationary satellite then you need to provide some evidence for an alternative technology which would allow something to hover in a fixed location for many years. It must be fixed, if a dish is knocked then you lose signal, the angle has to be precise which demonstrates that the thing it is pointing at is in a fixed location. You have yet to suggest what that could be or provide any evidence for how it would work.
You're the one presenting your premise (space-faring satellites orbiting a round earth) as fact. If you want to make the claim it's space-faring satellites, you need to prove your claim.
The claim is proven by the millions of dishes in service and the angle of the dish pointing at an object over the equator. See the documentation, scientific papers etc.  Do you receive tv using a satellite dish?

You are claiming these dishes work in some other way but cannot explain how.

Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #83 on: May 09, 2018, 11:27:06 PM »
Because you googled a picture of a satellite dish the burden of proof for explaining how it works is on me?
No, the Google images picture was only a demonstration of the setup. The burden of proof is for demonstrating that it ISN'T from a satellite, because Tumeni has already posted a video of someone photographing one such satellite from the ground.
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Offline SiDawg

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #84 on: May 09, 2018, 11:43:02 PM »
It's hardly fair to expect me to explain how something on your property, which could be anywhere in the world away from me. We've already established there are many methods of technology that could be used. I can't be expected to describe a specific set-up that I literally can not observe.

This is a particularly frustrating cyclic argument...

1 RE: I have a satellite dish to pickup TV
2 Ben: You don't need a satellite dish to pickup TV
3 RE: But i DO have a dish to pickup TV, and if i move it, it doesn't work
4 Ben: I can't confirm that
5 RE: Millions of people around the world confirm it
6 Ben: They don't need a satellite dish to pickup TV
7 Goto 3

Then there's this argument:

1 RE: My dish is receiving signal from satelites
2 Ben: That doesn't prove a round earth
3 RE: But it proves satellites. How do they stay up?
4 Ben: I don't know
5 RE: I do know: gravitational orbiting
6 Ben: Prove it
7 RE: thousands of scientists have proven it
8 Ben: Prove it's not held up by some other method
End argument


 
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Long range, high altitude, potentially solar powered airplanes [...] If the planes are travelling approx 15 miles about earth, that works out to around 2,200 mph, or Mach 3

Offline Tontogary

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #85 on: May 09, 2018, 11:43:35 PM »

You have let to prove a link between watching TV and the earth being round. You keep just stating your premise (this ridiculous orbiting satellite theory) as a fact. I have demonstrated, over and again, that satellites orbiting the earth are not needed for TV.

[/quote]
As for how the manufacturers of navigation technology make the stuff, there are numerous ways to transmit a signal both wireless and with wires that do not require orbiting satellites in space.
[/quote]

I am sorry, you have not demonstrated “over again” that satellites are not required for TV.
My ship is currently 200 miles from the nearest land, but i can interact with this debate. We dont have cable, we dont have a terrestrial signal (in fact we dont have a terrestrial tv antenna) and i dont have a cell signal.
What i DO have is a satellite dish pointed at the sky to a satellite.

You came up with the idea of “hypothetical aircraft” which is akin to your magic pixels and dragons. You have NOT demonstrated how I can have communications or TV.

We also have 3 methods of finding our position.
1, Celestial navigation, i.e. taking fixes from the sun and stars. Requires the taking and calculation of the ships position, so cannot be done automatically.
2, Visual and radar observation of fixed objects such as land or other solid objects ( we are 200 miles from land, so we cannot use that)
3, GPS using Satellites.

We are using 1 and 3 to find our position.

We have no other antennas or receivers for receiving these magic signals you claim that Could be telling me where i am. There are no land based systems in operation such as Loran (switched off) decca (switched off) Omega( long ago switched off) and in any case all of those need dedicated receivers, multiple corrections and user input. I would know if we were using any of those systems.
We DO HAVE GPS, which uses satellites.

So other than magic pixels or dragons, it would be nice to know how we know where we are? Claiming there are ways to transmit signals does not really explain HOW we know...

And if you cannot explain, even the basics, then you have no real reason to claim that there are ways. Again magic pixels and dragons?

Also, if you haven't heard of bronies before, that reflects poorly on your understanding of the world that surrounds you. It's practically impossible not to know about them.

Offline jcks

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Re: So what benefits for government lying to us?????
« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2018, 12:49:55 AM »
So NASA isn't proof of a round earth? Got it.

What? How did you get to that conclusion from "At no point has anyone claimed that funding for NASA was used to confirm what the shape of the earth was."

Again you are either making up points no one has stated or misinterpreting words. Possibly both.