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Offline JSS

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #280 on: October 17, 2020, 01:40:06 AM »
Quote
But don't deny people health care based on risk factors they can't control.  The US healthcare system is a disaster. People shouldn't have to die because a corporation wants more profits.

There already is socialized medicine in the US. It's called medicaid for the poor and medicare for the old. Millions are on it, and use it to get healthcare.

Why should people who can afford healthcare get it too?

Why not?  Other countries manage it.  Why can't the richest country on the planet give all their citizens access to heath care?

Why do you want to deny people health care?  There are plenty of people who can't afford health care but are not old or poor enough to get either medicare or medicaid.  Plenty of people who can afford insurance still go bankrupt due to medical bills that insurance won't cover.

Obamacare expanded Medicaid to younger people but of course, only the blue states enacted it, so if you're in a red state you are out of luck.

Millions are on it, but we still have 30 million people without health care.  In the richest country on the planet.  That is just sad.




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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #281 on: October 17, 2020, 02:14:45 AM »
That's not a good enough reason. If hospitals are playing games and using out of network doctors and causing medical bankruptcies, that can be fixed through legislation. I don't see why the entire field needs to be socialized if there is a single problem.

The people who are poor or old are largely already on the socialized programs. The socialized programs of Medicare and Medicaid already serve almost 160 million people combined.

Medicare - 61.2 Million
Medicaid - 97 Million

Much more than the 30 million figure cited. Considering the US population is 328.2 million, that's a lot. Medicine is already largely socialized. Medicaid even offers socialized supplemental insurance for people who are under-insured.

The 30 million figure appears to only refer to people who went without coverage at some point during the year: “Nearly 30 million Americans went without coverage at some point in 2019.” The Continuation of Health Coverage (COBRA) program allows you to bill medical claims to your previous insurance if you get sick for up to 18 months if they are transitioning between jobs, as long as you pay the rate your employer was paying. If you are unemployed for a long period of time then you should probably be on Medicaid. Medicaid can be applied for 60 days after losing your job, which some people neglect to apply for.

The actual number of chronically uninsured might be unaware of the socialized healthcare options available to them, are young and healthy, or don't care. If they get sick they know that they can just get insurance when they need it, since applicants are not judged for pre-existing conditions anymore.

Medicine is already socialized for those who need it. There is no reason to socialize it for people who can afford it. If it was totally socialized the people who could afford it would just be paying for it anyway via taxes, with an extra layer of government bureaucracy, and would likely get less options available to them. Right now young people can choose a cheaper catastrophic plan, and people willing to pay more can choose elaborate plans that include non-standard alternative practitioners or incidentals considered cosmetic by regular plans. If it was standardized by the government to a single plan there would be fewer options available. It also removes the competition aspect among insurance providers which naturally makes the standard plans employers buy cheaper.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 06:47:32 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #282 on: October 17, 2020, 01:29:47 PM »
Giuliani to release evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.



Giuliani interview with Daily Caller on Hunter Biden's laptop:

« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 01:42:36 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #283 on: October 17, 2020, 01:48:17 PM »
That's not a good enough reason. If hospitals are playing games and using out of network doctors and causing medical bankruptcies, that can be fixed through legislation. I don't see why the entire field needs to be socialized if there is a single problem.

The people who are poor or old are largely already on the socialized programs. The socialized programs of Medicare and Medicaid already serve almost 160 million people combined.

Medicare - 61.2 Million
Medicaid - 97 Million

Much more than the 30 million figure cited. Considering the US population is 320 million, that's a lot. Medicine is already largely socialized.

The 30 million figure appears to only refer to people who went without coverage at some point during the year: “Nearly 30 million Americans went without coverage at some point in 2019.” The Continuation of Health Coverage (COBRA) program allows you to bill medical claims to your previous insurance if you get sick for up to 18 months if they are transitioning between jobs, as long as you pay the rate your employer was paying. If you are unemployed for a long period of time then you should probably be on Medicaid. Medicaid can be applied for 60 days after losing your job, which some people neglect to apply for.

The actual number of chronically uninsured might be unaware of the socialized healthcare options available to them, are young and healthy, or don't care. If they get sick they know that they can just get insurance when they need it, since applicants are not judged for pre-existing conditions anymore.

Medicine is already socialized for those who need it. There is no reason to socialize it for people who can afford it. If it was totally socialized the people who could afford it would just be paying for it anyway via taxes, with an extra layer of government bureaucracy, and would likely get less options available to them. Right now young people can choose a cheaper catastrophic plan, and people willing to pay can choose elaborate plans that include non-standard alternative practitioners or incidentals considered cosmetic by regular plans. If it was standardized by the government to a single plan there would be fewer options available. It also removes the competition aspect which naturally makes the standard plans employers buy cheaper.
Medicare and medicaid qualifications vary by state and "need" is a hard term to apply.  For example, a walmart cashier doesn't get insurance via his job nor will medicaid be offered in most cases. 

The requirements are strict in many states.  Also, doctors are not required to accept medicare patients, if I recall.  So that hurts options too.


Giuliani to release evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.



Giuliani interview with Daily Caller on Hunter Biden's laptop:



As opposed to... Now?
Also, he really wants to play that card?  Mr. 'Join my club and you can meet me' Trump?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #284 on: October 17, 2020, 02:09:54 PM »
If people on medicare and medicaid are still paying out of pocket and experiencing medical bankruptcies, then its a shit system.  My friend in the US, who had medical insurance, got breast cancer and still had to pay tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket.  Its a shit system.

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Offline JSS

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #285 on: October 17, 2020, 02:53:26 PM »
Giuliani to release evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

Yes, I'm sure whatever this is will be vastly more corrupt than all the crap Trump has done in the past 4 years with his hotels and resorts directly funneling taxpayer money into his properties and making the secret service pay to stay at his hotels and letting foreign governments directly bribe him by going to his hotels.

Plus God knows what with whatever foreign bank he owes that 400 million to and... yeah.

Yawn.

Trump is a walking conflict of interest and we are supposed to get riled up about something crazy Giuliani is going to say?  Sure.

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Offline stack

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #286 on: October 17, 2020, 04:51:44 PM »
Giuliani to release evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

Yes, I'm sure whatever this is will be vastly more corrupt than all the crap Trump has done in the past 4 years with his hotels and resorts directly funneling taxpayer money into his properties and making the secret service pay to stay at his hotels and letting foreign governments directly bribe him by going to his hotels.

Plus God knows what with whatever foreign bank he owes that 400 million to and... yeah.

Yawn.

Trump is a walking conflict of interest and we are supposed to get riled up about something crazy Giuliani is going to say?  Sure.

My guess is that it's going to be as treasonous, juicy, and fact-filled as the Falconer and the Survivor story.

I get the sort of TV "Upcoming Episode Teaser" aspect of saying stuff will be released 10 days before, but also seems like sort of a risky gambit to wait when so many people are voting early. I'm looking forward to it anyway and will set my DVR accordingly.

Edit: Just read the last line again: "This has three people on the record, now four. It's a hard drive and text messages. If you read them, it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."

...it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's. - "Almost"? Interesting hedge. Very unlike Rudy. Based upon his past bloviating I would expect something more like, "It's impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 04:57:42 PM by stack »
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #287 on: October 17, 2020, 05:44:54 PM »
Giuliani to release evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

Yes, I'm sure whatever this is will be vastly more corrupt than all the crap Trump has done in the past 4 years with his hotels and resorts directly funneling taxpayer money into his properties and making the secret service pay to stay at his hotels and letting foreign governments directly bribe him by going to his hotels.

Plus God knows what with whatever foreign bank he owes that 400 million to and... yeah.

Yawn.

Trump is a walking conflict of interest and we are supposed to get riled up about something crazy Giuliani is going to say?  Sure.

My guess is that it's going to be as treasonous, juicy, and fact-filled as the Falconer and the Survivor story.

I get the sort of TV "Upcoming Episode Teaser" aspect of saying stuff will be released 10 days before, but also seems like sort of a risky gambit to wait when so many people are voting early. I'm looking forward to it anyway and will set my DVR accordingly.

Edit: Just read the last line again: "This has three people on the record, now four. It's a hard drive and text messages. If you read them, it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."

...it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's. - "Almost"? Interesting hedge. Very unlike Rudy. Based upon his past bloviating I would expect something more like, "It's impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."

"We have all this evidence but, you know, we're not entirely sure where its from.  Could be from Hunter Biden's HDD.  Could be from a fan fic someone wrote.  Who can say?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #288 on: October 17, 2020, 06:27:42 PM »
The story on how this HD came in to Giuliani’s possession has been very malleable from telling to telling. Either the store owner cloned it and got in touch with Giuliani somehow or Giuliani got in touch with him or it was through the FBI. It’s also possible the emails came from the identified Russian agent he has been working with, but that’s speculatory. What has been leaked so far is not very damning. I’m interested you see if there anything with more teeth.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #289 on: October 17, 2020, 09:24:51 PM »
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 09:30:14 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Offline JSS

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #290 on: October 17, 2020, 09:58:10 PM »
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.

I wish we had that Rudy Guliani today.

I'm not sure who this half senile butt-dialing, hot-micing, lying, ass-kissing Trump sycophant is, but it's not him.

Have you seen him talk lately? He's clearly lost his marbles.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #291 on: October 17, 2020, 11:30:46 PM »
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.


His job is to do Trump’s bidding now. He may or may not have evidence of a crime, Im interested to see, but I highly doubt anything related to Burisma will be that damning, especially considering what’s generally acceptable in US politics.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #292 on: October 18, 2020, 05:22:57 AM »
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.



Isn't it nice to see political enemies as the same as mafia crime families?  Gives you a real, fuzzy, communist USSR feel, doesn't it, Comrade? 

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #293 on: October 21, 2020, 10:50:43 PM »
If Gulania had info the best thing to do would be to release it before tomorrow's Thursday debate. Release it at a time for peak embarrassment. Biden would either have to answer for it on air or drop out of the debate, generating more media momentum on it.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 01:12:22 AM by Tom Bishop »
"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #294 on: October 22, 2020, 02:14:25 AM »
Well anything he drops now is going to be a lot less effective, now that he was found duped into (almost) jacking off in a hotel room as part of the next Borat movie...
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #295 on: October 22, 2020, 03:47:31 AM »
If Gulania had info the best thing to do would be to release it before tomorrow's Thursday debate. Release it at a time for peak embarrassment. Biden would either have to answer for it on air or drop out of the debate, generating more media momentum on it.

But he won't because he doesn't.

Just like I could release all the data I have on Tom, showing that he's actually a 26 year old high school dropout troll.  I mean, its ALOT of data, really.  But I'm not ready to release it. 

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #296 on: October 23, 2020, 01:24:13 AM »
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.

Makes a lot more sense than gun ownership being a right.

How do you make it a right to provide a service? Do you intend on forcing doctors to attend to patients? Such a system doesn't make fundamental sense to me. Remember, the right is to own a gun, not the right to be given a gun. No one has the right to be given a service or product, the very idea that they do is against the autonomy rights of others.

That isn't to say that some countries do in fact force people to provide a service or product to others. Governments exist to force people to do things, so this shouldn't be a surprise.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #297 on: October 23, 2020, 01:31:17 AM »
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.

Makes a lot more sense than gun ownership being a right.

How do you make it a right to provide a service? Do you intend on forcing doctors to attend to patients? Such a system doesn't make fundamental sense to me.

I would recommend researching other countries that implement these services.

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Offline Clyde Frog

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #298 on: October 23, 2020, 01:33:42 AM »
I'm pretty sure ER doctors, for example, don't have a choice either way - they have to provide service when someone shows up that needs care. And the cost of the uninsured who also can't and/or refuse to pay gets passed on to the rest of us as increased cost. Sure would be nice to have that accounted for as a true "cost of doing business" that would be negotiated as such and, in the end, should cost the public less. We're paying that money anyway. If we can provide all Americans a better quality of life, which we can seemingly afford based on looking at how other countries have implemented single payer healthcare, and in doing so we can also end up spending less overall (which, again, other countries that are using that model have shown is possible), that seems like a win.

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Offline stack

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Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
« Reply #299 on: October 23, 2020, 01:36:16 AM »
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.

Makes a lot more sense than gun ownership being a right.
How do you make it a right to provide a service? Do you intend on forcing doctors to attend to patients?

The Hippocratic Oath pretty much covers off on this already.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.