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Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Roundy on June 25, 2020, 08:02:44 PM

Title: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on June 25, 2020, 08:02:44 PM
At least he would be if the election were held today.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/politics/donald-trump-swing-state-polls-new-york-times-siena/index.html
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on June 25, 2020, 09:08:37 PM
At least he would be if the election were held today.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/politics/donald-trump-swing-state-polls-new-york-times-siena/index.html

I imagine polling went like this.

Pollster: "Hi, I'm from the New York Times. Would you mind telling me how you would vote if there were an election tomorrow?"
Democrat voter: "I'd vote Biden. Orange man bad.

Pollster: "Hi, I'm from the New York Times. Would you mind telling me how you would vote if there were an election tomorrow?"
Republican voter: "New York Times? How about you f-off, you total disgrace.  >o<"
Pollster: "I'll pop you down as an undecided.

Conservatives in all countries are much more likely to refuse to disclose their voting intentions. This is likely because the New York Times et al frequently tell people they are stupid if they vote Republican. When a left wing journalist asks you how you will vote, you're unlikely to be cooperative with them. I wouldn't have '5 mins to spare' for the BBC for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy_Tory_factor
^ I guess you would have something similar in the USA.


My verdict ... Trump will win again without breaking a sweat. By the time the head to head debate has happened and Biden is shown to be absolutely out of his skull with dementia, it'll all be over for another 4 years.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on June 26, 2020, 01:01:51 AM
Thork, I want people to have that attitude. I want people to be paranoid that the Orange Man will win again,  despite the overwhelming evidence that he won't. Apparently it's the only way to energize enough Democrats to make a difference.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on June 26, 2020, 03:58:17 AM
Except they wouldn't mention the New York Times.  Or any company name, to ensure unbiased answers.
Only if pressed would they say what their polling company or university is. 


Also, I'm with Roundy.  We got complacent last time and it fucked us over.  Hell, I'm gonna vote this time around.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on June 29, 2020, 01:48:10 PM
Also, I'm with Roundy.  We got complacent last time and it fucked us over.  Hell, I'm gonna vote this time around.

You don't even live in the US anymore. It didn't change your life one jot having Trump. You've been watching too much CNN again.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on June 29, 2020, 03:03:52 PM
Also, I'm with Roundy.  We got complacent last time and it fucked us over.  Hell, I'm gonna vote this time around.

You don't even live in the US anymore. It didn't change your life one jot having Trump. You've been watching too much CNN again.

We don't get CNN over here. :P
I am also a citizen so his actions reflect on me.
I also file taxes.  I got his stimulus money and spent it in Norway.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: totallackey on June 29, 2020, 03:41:42 PM
Also, I'm with Roundy.  We got complacent last time and it fucked us over.  Hell, I'm gonna vote this time around.

...It didn't change your life one jot having Trump.
This is true for every single person on the planet.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on June 29, 2020, 03:48:05 PM
This is true for every single person on the planet.

TIL POTUS doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: totallackey on June 29, 2020, 03:51:59 PM
This is true for every single person on the planet.

TIL POTUS doesn't matter.
Please describe one thing any president has done that impacted your life to any degree.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on June 29, 2020, 04:04:04 PM
This is true for every single person on the planet.

TIL POTUS doesn't matter.
Please describe one thing any president has done that impacted your life to any degree.

Why are you singling me out?  You said it was true for every single person on the planet.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: TomInAustin on June 29, 2020, 04:17:38 PM
Thork, I want people to have that attitude. I want people to be paranoid that the Orange Man will win again,  despite the overwhelming evidence that he won't. Apparently it's the only way to energize enough Democrats to make a difference.

Sadly America's youth will not vote, they just can't be bothered.  Maybe if they could vote on Tik Tok?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on June 29, 2020, 05:59:55 PM
This is true for every single person on the planet.

TIL POTUS doesn't matter.
Please describe one thing any president has done that impacted your life to any degree.

This is a very odd thing to say or argue.  By this logic, you should not care who wins any presidency as they have no power over you.  Obama couldn't take your guns, Trump can't get you jobs, nothing.

Hell, it means any military action ordered by a president has no impact, regardless of who dies.
Go figure, eh?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on June 29, 2020, 06:11:22 PM
I also file taxes.  I got his stimulus money and spent it in Norway.
You are a parasite on decent hard working Americans. And now you wish to impose your political ideologies on those living in the States without having to face the consequences of your vote yourself? Honestly, look at your behaviour and decide if you are a morally bankrupt. I'd say you are behaving as such.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on June 29, 2020, 06:17:15 PM
I also file taxes.  I got his stimulus money and spent it in Norway.
You are a parasite on decent hard working Americans. And now you wish to impose your political ideologies on those living in the States without having to face the consequences of your vote yourself? Honestly, look at your behaviour and decide if you are a morally bankrupt. I'd say you are behaving as such.

All of a sudden you care what an American is doing?  But it's weird to care what the president of the USA is doing?  Do you see how completely two-faced you are?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on June 29, 2020, 06:21:06 PM
All of a sudden you care what an American is doing?  But it's weird to care what the president of the USA is doing?  Do you see how completely two-faced you are?
Lord Dave is part of my every day life. I've been talking to Lord Dave for a decade. I know everything about him and his life. I have never had any interaction with Donald Trump. To me, Lord Dave is a reality. Trump is just a media fiction.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on June 29, 2020, 06:23:07 PM
All of a sudden you care what an American is doing?  But it's weird to care what the president of the USA is doing?  Do you see how completely two-faced you are?
Lord Dave is part of my every day life. I've been talking to Lord Dave for a decade. I know everything about him and his life. I have never had any interaction with Donald Trump. To me, Lord Dave is a reality. Trump is just a media fiction.

Well, it turns out that acting like an ostrich won't make Trump a fiction.  He is a real person.  He makes decisions of consequence to the world.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on June 29, 2020, 06:28:17 PM
Thork, I want people to have that attitude. I want people to be paranoid that the Orange Man will win again,  despite the overwhelming evidence that he won't. Apparently it's the only way to energize enough Democrats to make a difference.

Sadly America's youth will not vote, they just can't be bothered.  Maybe if they could vote on Tik Tok?

Thanks for contributing to the cause!  :)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on June 30, 2020, 02:57:05 AM
Thork, I want people to have that attitude. I want people to be paranoid that the Orange Man will win again,  despite the overwhelming evidence that he won't. Apparently it's the only way to energize enough Democrats to make a difference.

Sadly America's youth will not vote, they just can't be bothered.  Maybe if they could vote on Tik Tok?

I don't know... with all that has happened lately, I wonder if it will outrage enough young people to pay attention.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on June 30, 2020, 04:11:47 AM
I also file taxes.  I got his stimulus money and spent it in Norway.
You are a parasite on decent hard working Americans. And now you wish to impose your political ideologies on those living in the States without having to face the consequences of your vote yourself? Honestly, look at your behaviour and decide if you are a morally bankrupt. I'd say you are behaving as such.
Its not my fault they sent a check to people who live out of country.  They could easily have just not sent one to someone who works out of country or lives out of country, but they chose not to.  So yes, I took the check I was given, all $1,700, and cashed it to add to my home savings account.

As for consequences.  There are always consequences.  I may not have to live under his rule (unless he forces me back or invades Norway) but I am still bound by many American laws by virtue of being American.  I have student loans whose interest rates vary by the word if the Treasury.  Whose repayment terms are dictated by his choice of education secretary.  I file taxes in accordance to the IRS and current Tax laws, a major one of which HE SIGNED INTO LAW.

So yes, I don't have to live in Trump's America, but I sure as hell feel his shit.
I also have friends and family there.  So even if I don't live there, they do and I want them to have a good life.  Wouldn't you?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on July 26, 2020, 03:05:27 AM
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/trump-says-biden-would-destroy-the-suburbs-so-what-is-his-housing-plan

When an article strains to be critical of Biden, and somehow ends up as a glowing endorsement of his proposed policy. Biden's initiatives are stated in a Fox News article, without any attempt on their part to dispute the point, to reduce overall poverty by 22% and child poverty by 34%, all by (gasp!) forcing the suburbs to be more inclusive. I know, right? Pure evil!

I mean the subtext is that all of a sudden more people from urban areas (ie people of color, and obviously largely criminals) are going to move into the burbs and that's why what Biden is doing is "destroying the suburbs". I guess to the racists that make up a significant portion of Fox's viewership such consequences are terrifying.

It's just crazy that in attacking a liberal over a liberal policy, in the name of defending Trump's inane accusations, a conservative outfit can't spin things so that it really sounds like a bad idea. Unless, of course, you take issue with more people being able to make their way out of poverty, and conceivably move into your development. There goes the neighborhood, huh?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on July 26, 2020, 03:28:20 AM
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/trump-says-biden-would-destroy-the-suburbs-so-what-is-his-housing-plan

When an article strains to be critical of Biden, and somehow ends up as a glowing endorsement of his proposed policy. Biden's initiatives are stated in a Fox News article, without any attempt on their part to dispute the point, to reduce overall poverty by 22% and child poverty by 34%, all by (gasp!) forcing the suburbs to be more inclusive. I know, right? Pure evil!

I mean the subtext is that all of a sudden more people from urban areas (ie people of color, and obviously largely criminals) are going to move into the burbs and that's why what Biden is doing is "destroying the suburbs". I guess to the racists that make up a significant portion of Fox's viewership such consequences are terrifying.

It's just crazy that in attacking a liberal over a liberal policy, in the name of defending Trump's inane accusations, a conservative outfit can't spin things so that it really sounds like a bad idea. Unless, of course, you take issue with more people being able to make their way out of poverty, and conceivably move into your development. There goes the neighborhood, huh?

Its hard to spin it without either trashing the suburbs (So fox viewers) or outright calling city folk criminals.
Plus, I think Fox see's the writing on the wall and isn't giving it their A game right now.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on July 26, 2020, 07:47:06 AM
Joe Biden is still winning by a landslide, by the way. Even more so than before.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on July 26, 2020, 07:51:30 AM
The best landslide.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on July 27, 2020, 01:30:20 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-campaign-declines-fox-news-sunday-interview-chris-wallace

I mean, of course he does. And why wouldn't he?

Trump has been notorious for agreeing to nothing but softball interviews with personal friends like Sean Hannity throughout his presidency. This interview was not a sign that that attitude has changed; it's just a sign that the Trump campaign recognizes how far underwater he is, and it forced Trump to step outside his comfort zone. It was an act of desperation more than anything else.

Biden has no such problem. Biden has been doing just fine without having to subject himself to a difficult interview on a hostile network.

I'd decline the interview if I were him too. It was a publicity stunt for Trump. Biden doesn't need a publicity stunt right now, he needs to keep doing what he's been doing, because it's working.

And Fox News putting out an article challenging him for refusing the interview might feel good on their part, but it will have very, very little effect on the election, because the zombies that pay attention to Fox News have made their choice already.

Keep doing what you're doing, Joe!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on July 28, 2020, 12:41:50 AM
I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but I have to admit I'm feeling a lot more optimistic about the election than I was a few months ago. Trump is his own worst enemy, and he's doing far more to hurt his chances of reelection than Biden ever could. I'd like to see Biden also decline to debate Trump. He'll take a hit for backing out, sure, but there's no benefit in a debate for him. If he gets onto a stage with Trump, Trump will simply lie. He'll lie wildly and frantically, desperate to say something, anything that could narrow the gap between them. Why give him the opportunity? There's no point in having a debate if both candidates aren't making a good-faith effort to actually discuss the issues and let the voters decide which of them has the better stance on them.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on July 28, 2020, 03:48:00 AM
Doesn’t matter. Go vote, people. (Not you Tom)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on July 28, 2020, 05:09:22 AM
I think we're all mature enough to handle a discussion on the election while also agreeing to vote no matter what we think the outcome will be.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: GreatATuin on July 28, 2020, 05:35:48 AM
What if the pandemic makes it impossible to hold elections in November? Is that possibility even considered?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on July 28, 2020, 07:33:10 AM
What if the pandemic makes it impossible to hold elections in November? Is that possibility even considered?

Yes.
People will vote anyway tho older people (who generally vote Republican) probably won't.

Trump will declare it a sham election if he loses and can blame corona, to which everyone will go 'But you said mail in voting was full of fraud.'

I suspect you'll have alot of mail in voting tho.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on July 28, 2020, 11:12:34 PM
Trump will declare it a sham election if he loses and can blame corona, to which everyone will go 'But you said mail in voting was full of fraud.'

I'm sure if Trump loses, there will be people on the left saying the same thing. It's a no-win situation.

I hope everyone can and does vote.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 01, 2020, 02:51:31 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/chris-wallace-joe-biden-fox-news-sunday

We know, we know, Fox News, we heard you the first time.  ::)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 01, 2020, 07:05:05 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/chris-wallace-joe-biden-fox-news-sunday

We know, we know, Fox News, we heard you the first time.  ::)
Sounds like Biden has been skipping leg-day.  >:(
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 01:28:30 AM
And guess who the VP pick is?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/11/us/politics/kamala-harris-vp-biden.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/11/politics/biden-vp-pick/index.html

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/11/897427306/in-historic-pick-joe-biden-taps-kamala-harris-to-be-his-running-mate

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/harris-bidens-vp-pick-scrutiny-prosecutor
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on August 12, 2020, 01:51:03 AM
isn;t joey brain dead like his voters?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 12, 2020, 02:30:59 AM
lol, a vice presidential candidate who believes that her running mate is a rapist.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/11/flashback-kamala-harris-said-she-believed-bidens-rape-accusers/

"Its ok because I want to be VP" -Kamala probably

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 03:08:55 AM
lol, a vice presidential candidate who believes that her running mate is a rapist.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/11/flashback-kamala-harris-said-she-believed-bidens-rape-accusers/

"Its ok because I want to be VP" -Kamala probably

I’ll admit he’s too touchy feely and that kind of behavior is not tolerated in society these days, but isnt a bit disingenuous to call it rape?

The guy you support is not any better in this regard.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 12, 2020, 03:22:35 AM
isnt a bit disingenuous to call it rape?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52584774

Quote
What did Tara Reade say about the alleged assault?

Ms Reade, now 56, worked as a staff assistant to Mr Biden from 1992-93 when he was a senator for the US state of Delaware.

She has said that in 1993 he forced her against a wall and put his hands under her shirt and skirt, penetrating her with a finger, after she delivered him his gym bag.

In her most graphic, detailed account yet of the alleged assault, Ms Reade told US media personality Megyn Kelly that Mr Biden kissed her neck and told her he wanted to have sex with her, using an obscene term.

"So, he had one hand underneath my shirt, and the other had, I had a skirt on, and he went down my skirt and then went up and I remember I was up almost on my tippy toes," she said.

"When he went inside the skirt, he was talking to me at the same time, and he was leaning into me and I pulled this way away from his head."

When she refused his advances, she said: "He looked at me and said, 'What the hell, man, I heard you liked me'."

She added: "He pointed his finger at me and he said 'You're nothing to me. You're nothing'."

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/rape

Quote
rape
noun
unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 12, 2020, 07:40:17 AM
It looks to me like the democrats have given up this year. Biden is a waste of space.

Their campaign is a negative one. It isn't vote for Biden. It is vote against Trump. Those types of campaigns fail to bring out base support because the base isn't enthusiastic about its own candidate. I can't see the dems winning ... thank god.

And Kamala Harris ... congratulations on being a black woman. Its the only qualification required to be Biden's VP. You are the token box ticker who is purely there because the Dems are obsessed with race, sex and victimhood.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 12, 2020, 11:05:49 AM
It looks to me like the democrats have given up this year. Biden is a waste of space.

Their campaign is a negative one. It isn't vote for Biden. It is vote against Trump. Those types of campaigns fail to bring out base support because the base isn't enthusiastic about its own candidate. I can't see the dems winning ... thank god.

And Kamala Harris ... congratulations on being a black woman. Its the only qualification required to be Biden's VP. You are the token box ticker who is purely there because the Dems are obsessed with race, sex and victimhood.

She is also an Attorney General. Thats an accomplishment most would never sniff at.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: jimbaker7773 on August 12, 2020, 11:14:43 AM
It looks to me like the democrats have given up this year. Biden is a waste of space.

Their campaign is a negative one. It isn't vote for Biden. It is vote against Trump. Those types of campaigns fail to bring out base support because the base isn't enthusiastic about its own candidate. I can't see the dems winning ... thank god.

And Kamala Harris ... congratulations on being a black woman. Its the only qualification required to be Biden's VP. You are the token box ticker who is purely there because the Dems are obsessed with race, sex and victimhood.

She is also an Attorney General.
"News broke on Tuesday that Kamala Harris was ending her run for president. While there are a number of reasons her candidacy was not successful, chief among them was her decision to brand herself a “progressive prosecutor.” She was not, at least not by today’s standards."
https://theappeal.org/kamala-harris-criminal-justice-record-killed-her-presidential-run/ (https://theappeal.org/kamala-harris-criminal-justice-record-killed-her-presidential-run/)
Doesn't seem to be a worthwhile record.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 12, 2020, 11:24:25 AM
I don’t recall lauding her record as AG just rebuffing Thonk’s ridiculous assertion that her only qualification is her skin colour and sex
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on August 12, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
And Kamala Harris ... congratulations on being a black woman. Its the only qualification required to be Biden's VP. You are the token box ticker who is purely there because the Dems are obsessed with race, sex and victimhood.

She's got more qualifications than Trump.  If Trump is the low bar, she's in orbit.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 02:56:57 PM
It looks to me like the democrats have given up this year. Biden is a waste of space.

Their campaign is a negative one. It isn't vote for Biden. It is vote against Trump. Those types of campaigns fail to bring out base support because the base isn't enthusiastic about its own candidate. I can't see the dems winning ... thank god.

And Kamala Harris ... congratulations on being a black woman. Its the only qualification required to be Biden's VP. You are the token box ticker who is purely there because the Dems are obsessed with race, sex and victimhood.

I'm not buying this argument against people for voting "against trump".

If someone is in power that is obviously a tyrant, guilty of treason, and other covered-up crimes, and you wanted them out of office, wouldn't the logical thing be to vote for their opponent? I mean, that's just common sense. You don't like someone, don't vote for them, and sometimes that means simply voting the other way - nothing wrong with that.

Trump is literally THAT terrible that so many Americans are going to settle for just "voting against trump". People might not be enthusiastic about getting Biden in office, but they are enthusiastic about getting Trump out of office.

That doesn't say anything negative about the voters, that says a hell of a lot about the POTUS.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 12, 2020, 03:12:24 PM
I'm not buying this argument against people for voting "against trump".

And yet you then go on to say

Trump is literally THAT terrible that so many Americans are going to settle for just "voting against trump". People might not be enthusiastic about getting Biden in office, but they are enthusiastic about getting Trump out of office.

You just re-worded my exact statement that you refused to buy.  ::)

If someone is in power that is obviously a tyrant
Do you know what tyrant means? Is he having people murdered? Is there a secret police making his enemies disappear? Is torture a regular thing in the US? Is he confiscating land and businesses? Is he removing people's right to practise religion? Is he enslaving people or creating a genocide? Dems are so babyish. There is no nuance, just like a child. They just throw our idiotic terms like racist, tyrant, orange man bad. What a pampered child you are to think Trump is a tyrant. Try living under Idi Amin or Pol Pot.

guilty of treason
I must have missed this trial. Can you point me to the case where he was found guilty of treason. Because if you can't, he's innocent until proven guilty and just because you screech guilty like a peasant at a witch trial doesn't make it so.

, and other covered-up crimes,
How convenient. He's committed crimes, but just crimes he covered up so as I can't verify them ... but they happened, because you said so.  ::)



I really hope your lot don't get in. Just look how you all behave. Hollywood celebs, the mainstream media in the US, and the braying harpies that support the dems. Squealing and accusing people of crimes that never happened because you don't like a candidate. Its fine not to like a candidate, but yours is the dishonest party. The party that tells all the lies. The party that divides with identity politics. The party that is filled with awful left-wing extremists advocating to defund the police, burn books and pull down statues, nominates candidates based on the colour of their skin, believes in the original sin of white privilege ... its a shit show and such a basket case of a party shouldn't be anywhere near power. Trump is positively sophisticated compared to your lot. 5 more years please America. We don't want a senile puppet with a Marxists hand up his arse for a leader of the free world, thank you very much.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 03:17:33 PM
I'm not buying this argument against people for voting "against trump".

And yet you then go on to say

Trump is literally THAT terrible that so many Americans are going to settle for just "voting against trump". People might not be enthusiastic about getting Biden in office, but they are enthusiastic about getting Trump out of office.

You just re-worded my exact statement that you refused to buy.  ::)


No worries, you simply mis-read my statement. Read it again, but more slowly this time.....

I said I wasn't buying your argument "AGAINST" people who .....

So what if they vote against Trump.... this is what I said.

If someone is in power that is obviously a tyrant
Do you know what tyrant means? Is he having people murdered? Is there a secret police making his enemies disappear? Is torture a regular thing in the US? Is he confiscating land and businesses? Is he removing people's right to practise religion? Is he enslaving people or creating a genocide? Dems are so babyish. There is no nuance, just like a child. They just throw our idiotic terms like racist, tyrant, orange man bad. What a pampered child you are to think Trump is a tyrant. Try living under Idi Amin or Pol Pot.

Tyrant means someone who rules with absolute power - I believe Trump has been quoted saying something like, "The president has all authority".

There is also a thing in this country called "The Patriot Act" which allows the government to take people away (make them disappear) if they feel they are a threat.

Quote
Is torture a regular thing in the US?

Have you heard of Guantanamo?


guilty of treason
I must have missed this trial. Can you point me to the case where he was found guilty of treason. Because if you can't, he's innocent until proven guilty and just because you screech guilty like a peasant at a witch trial doesn't make it so.

, and other covered-up crimes,
How convenient. He's committed crimes, but just crimes he covered up so as I can't verify them ... but they happened, because you said so.  ::)



I really hope your lot don't get in. Just look how you all behave. Hollywood celebs, the mainstream media in the US, and the braying harpies that support the dems. Squealing and accusing people of crimes that never happened because you don't like a candidate. Its fine not to like a candidate, but yours is the dishonest party. The party that tells all the lies. The party that divides with identity politics. The party that is filled with awful left-wing extremists advocating to defund the police, burn books and pull down statues, nominates candidates based on the colour of their skin, believes in the original sin of white privilege ... its a shit show and such a basket case of a party should be anywhere near power. Trump is positively sophisticated compared to your lot. 5 more years please America. We don't want a senile puppet with a Marxists hand up his arse for a leader of the free world, thank you very much.

Who knows what the hell Trump is really doing. This is the game he plays - divide, concur, and confuse. I have no proof of anything I have just accused him of, but does that really matter what I accuse him of? He has shown his inability to be president - that is what matters. He has shown that he does not have your interests at heart - that is what matters.

I don't know for sure that Trump has committed these crimes, but I know for sure he only cares about himself - this alone is enough for me to not vote for him.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 12, 2020, 03:50:20 PM
I could discredit your entire post but its like shooting fish in a barrel at this point. We'll just cut to the chase.

Who knows what the hell Trump is really doing.
Well you just accused him of being a tyrant, a traitor and a criminal ... I'm hoping you know what he's been up to before you start accusing him of the worst possible things you can think of.

This is the game he plays - divide, concur, and confuse.
No, that would be the Democrat party. Black Lives Matter, Antifa, policed speech and thought, hate crimes. It is all about pitting people against each other based on inherent biological properties.
https://youtu.be/We6Qr9-dDn8?t=19


I have no proof of anything I have just accused him of
Wow. Just wow. And there is a motto for the Dems in this Presidential election. You summed it up in a sentence. That is the Democratic platform for the next election.

but does that really matter what I accuse him of?
Dunno. How would you feel about people libelling you? What if people said you were a peadophile on the internet. Would you like that? Is it civilised. Apparently it doesn't matter what people accuse you of and its fine even if they have no proof. Who looks like the awful weasel who would say anything to get their political way? You or Trump?

He has shown his inability to be president - that is what matters.
He's almost done 4 years. Where is the inability? He's still President.

He has shown that he does not have your interests at heart - that is what matters.
No, he doesn't. I'm British and as he said from his first day in office ... America First! He's got YOUR interests at heart. This is why he's trying to bring jobs back from China. Why he isn't starting wars so young men like you aren't coming back in body bags. Why he is trying to reduce illegal immigration to prevent crime and a collapse in wages for US citizens. If you had any perspective, you'd look at what he has ACTUALLY DONE and realise he's been a pretty good President, despite the dems trying to block progress at every turn. So he says dumb stuff some times. But his actions are those of a good President. He does the right thing 9 times out of 10. No Dem would get close to that. Too much corporate interest.

I don't know for sure that Trump has committed these crimes
then how about you stop accusing him of them. It is you that then looks like the morally devoid one. Not trump.

but I know for sure he only cares about himself
No, you don't know that either. Stop talking off the top of your head as though your unfounded statements are real.

this alone is enough for me to not vote for him.
No. You're a leftist. A narcissist. Its you first. Not America. You want people to say you are virtuous, and you will stand up for other people's rights. Not because you care about them. Because you want the virtue. You'll speak up for them, not because you care about their plight but because you want to wrestle the mic off them and make yourself the centre of attention. You want people to think you are brave standing up to a tyrant ... when you aren't in any danger at all because TRUMP ISN'T A TYRANT! You're a self-absorbed leftist baby ... and this is why you vote Dems. Its nothing to do with Trump in the slightest.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 04:20:02 PM
Who knows what the hell Trump is really doing.
Well you just accused him of being a tyrant, a traitor and a criminal ... I'm hoping you know what he's been up to before you start accusing him of the worst possible things you can think of.

He has not been convicted of any crimes, so I can't say for sure what he's been up to. However, I did offer you proof that he runs the country like a tyrant. And he cries and whines when he realizes he isn't total authority. This happened when he didn't get his way about the wall, twitter, media, and now tik tok (although he may get his way here).


I have no proof of anything I have just accused him of
Wow. Just wow. And there is a motto for the Dems in this Presidential election. You summed it up in a sentence. That is the Democratic platform for the next election.

You see, the thing about being an American, is that it is my right to have opinions of people, and speak about it, regardless whether or not someone disagrees with me.

but does that really matter what I accuse him of?
Dunno. How would you feel about people libelling you? What if people said you were a peadophile on the internet. Would you like that? Is it civilised. Apparently it doesn't matter what people accuse you of and its fine even if they have no proof. Who looks like the awful weasel who would say anything to get their political way? You or Trump?

Oh poor f'ing Trump. Someone accuses him of awfulness, he can go cry in a corner for all I care - if accusations get him down, why the hell does he put himself in the spotlight? Are you kidding me??? Trump LOVES the attention he gets from people like me who call him out for his BS.

As I said, it is my right to say whatever the hell I want to about the president. 


He has shown his inability to be president - that is what matters.
He's almost done 5 years. Where is the inability? He's still President.

And yet he was impeached.


He has shown that he does not have your interests at heart - that is what matters.
No, he doesn't. I'm British

Don't be pedantic.


I don't know for sure that Trump has committed these crimes
then how about you stop accusing him of them. It is you that then looks like the morally devoid one. Not trump.

Riiiight. I'm calling out the POTUS for being a tyrant when he has demonstrated tyrant mentality publicly on more than one occasion, accusing him of crimes that have been well publicized and covered up by the POTUS asserting his tyrant mentality to block evidence from court, and you say I'm the one who is morally devoid? You don't know who the fuck I am, nor do you know what the fuck you're talking about.

but I know for sure he only cares about himself
No, you don't know that either. Stop talking off the top of your head as though your unfounded statements are real.

this alone is enough for me to not vote for him.
No. You're a leftist. A narcissist. Its you first. Not America. You want people to say you are virtuous, and you will stand up for other people's rights. Not because you care about them. Because you want the virtue. You'll speak up for them, not because you care about their plight but because you want to wrestle the mic off them and make yourself the centre of attention. You want people to think you are brave standing up to a tyrant ... when you aren't in any danger at all because TRUMP ISN'T A TYRANT! You're a self-absorbed leftist baby ... and this is why you vote Dems. Its nothing to do with Trump in the slightest.

Don't act like your some righteous moral being - I've seen your posts. You calling me a narcissist is laughable.

Furthermore, your opinions of me have nothing to do with Trump being an insufferable ego-maniac tyrant.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 12, 2020, 04:48:23 PM
He has not been convicted of any crimes
But you accused him anyway.

However, I did offer you proof that he runs the country like a tyrant.
I'm still waiting for this proof. Please provide it.

And he cries and whines when he realizes he isn't total authority. This happened when he didn't get his way about the wall, twitter, media, and now tik tok (although he may get his way here).
OMG. A politician tried to get his manifesto promise done, was blocked by the opposition and then complained about that. Well stop the press. We have a monster on our hands!

You see, the thing about being an American, is that it is my right to have opinions of people, and speak about it, regardless whether or not someone disagrees with me.
The thing about being an American is the person you are trying to damage also has rights and your rights end where their rights begin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States#Defamation


Oh poor f'ing Trump. Someone accuses him of awfulness, he can go cry in a corner for all I care - if accusations get him down, why the hell does he put himself in the spotlight? Are you kidding me??? Trump LOVES the attention he gets from people like me who call him out for his BS.
All I see is your BS. Lie upon lie about things Trump never did such as commit treason or subject Americans to tyranny.

As I said, it is my right to say whatever the hell I want to about the president. 
And its my right to call you out on your BS.

And yet he was impeached.
The Senate acquitted Trump of these charges on February 5, 2020. So Dems all voted him guilty ... because just like you they don't care about the truth, only the result. Not one Republican agreed. It was a dark day for the Democrat party. Nio due process. Just might is right. Superior numbers found a man guilty. Just awful. Can't believe you'd want such people running the country.


He has shown that he does not have your interests at heart - that is what matters.
No, he doesn't. I'm British

Don't be pedantic.
You mean accurate. You're asking, don't bring facts into the discussion.

Riiiight. I'm calling out the POTUS for being a tyrant when he has demonstrated tyrant mentality
Tyrant mentality? Is that a thought crime? You are saying he hasn't actually been a tyrant ... but he said things you don't like and suspect might be a bit tyranty because you don't know what a tyrant is.  ::)

You don't know who the fuck I am, nor do you know what the fuck you're talking about.
Actually, I don't know what the fuck you are talking about and neither do you. Its just rhetoric. Utter twaddle. You've been indoctrinated by the leftists.

(https://theinfosphere.org/images/thumb/d/d6/Brain_Slugs.jpg/600px-Brain_Slugs.jpg)

Don't act like your some righteous moral being - I've seen your posts. You calling me a narcissist is laughable.

Furthermore, your opinions of me have nothing to do with Trump being an insufferable ego-maniac tyrant.
You keep using that word tyrant, don't you? Despite admitting you have zero proof.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 05:01:37 PM
Bullshit aside.....

Riiiight. I'm calling out the POTUS for being a tyrant when he has demonstrated tyrant mentality
Tyrant mentality? Is that a thought crime? You are saying he hasn't actually been a tyrant ... but he said things you don't like and suspect might be a bit tyranty because you don't know what a tyrant is.  ::)

You keep using that word tyrant, don't you? Despite admitting you have zero proof.

He is a tyrant. He has been restricted in his ability to act on this because of the American process - thank god.

He has shown his ability to be a tyrant in his first few months in office when he separated children from their parents because their parents didn't have the right to be in the country - the children, on the other hand were innocent, and they were immorally oppressed by the POTUS.

Along those same lines, Trump has called for "foreigners" to leave the country time and time again. He is doing it now with international students by sending them home if they can't otherwise be present for classes due to coronavirus - oppression.

Trump has taken rights from the American people when he used federal police officers to illegally remove citizens from expressing their constitutional rights.

This is all oppression.

Trump has made statements about his "total authority", truly believing that he is the be all, end all. He would exercise this delusion if he could.

The fact that Trump has been held accountable by the American process has prevented him from becoming full-fledged tyrant. That doesn't mean he isn't one, and wouldn't be one.

All of the above is more than rhetoric - these are the actions of one man.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 12, 2020, 05:17:33 PM
He has shown his ability to be a tyrant in his first few months in office when he separated children from their parents because their parents didn't have the right to be in the country - the children, on the other hand were innocent, and they were immorally oppressed by the POTUS.
So people who broke the law were separated from their families? Yes, this happens in every country on earth. It is called prison.

Along those same lines, Trump has called for "foreigners" to leave the country time and time again. He is doing it now with international students by sending them home if they can't otherwise be present for classes due to coronavirus - oppression.
He doesn't represent foreigners. Foreigners don't vote. He represents Americans and American needs. And getting rid of criminals, illegal immigrants, trafficked people and terrorists is his job.

Trump has taken rights from the American people when he used federal police officers to illegally remove citizens from expressing their constitutional rights.
Citation please.

This is all oppression.
It is called maintaining law and order. Supporting a party that wants to defund the police, I guess you aren't going to be able to grasp that one. Seems you prefer anarchy and an unsafe society.

Trump has made statements about his "total authority", truly believing that he is the be all, end all. He would exercise this delusion if he could.
He is the most powerful man on earth. What is your point?

The fact that Trump has been held accountable by the American process has prevented him from becoming full-fledged tyrant.
That's like saying your father would be a peadophile if there weren't laws to prevent peadophilia.

That doesn't mean he isn't one, and wouldn't be one.
I guess your father is a peadophile, then.  ::)

All of the above is more than rhetoric - these are the actions of one man.
Its rhetoric.

https://youtu.be/p8M2tg2RkIQ?t=163
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 21, 2020, 02:57:31 PM
Joe Biden draws a crowd in Delaware - https://streamable.com/pl5llr
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 21, 2020, 03:15:13 PM
Joe Biden draws a crowd in Delaware - https://streamable.com/pl5llr

Trump fans have to do something to distract themselves from the ongoing exposure of corruption and incompetence in his administration. Turns out cognitive dissonance is difficult to maintain when you pay attention to facts.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: jimbaker7773 on August 21, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
He has shown his ability to be a tyrant in his first few months in office when he separated children from their parents because their parents didn't have the right to be in the country - the children, on the other hand were innocent, and they were immorally oppressed by the POTUS.
To be more accurate, he separated some children from some people claiming to be the parents. Plus, adults who model illegal behavior should not do so in front of children.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: jimbaker7773 on August 21, 2020, 03:43:02 PM
Joe Biden draws a crowd in Delaware - https://streamable.com/pl5llr

Trump fans have to do something to distract themselves from the ongoing exposure of corruption and incompetence in his administration. Turns out cognitive dissonance is difficult to maintain when you pay attention to facts.
What ongoing exposure of what corruption?If you are referring to Steve Bannon, he isn't associated with the Trump Administration.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 21, 2020, 03:53:38 PM
Joe Biden draws a crowd in Delaware - https://streamable.com/pl5llr

Trump fans have to do something to distract themselves from the ongoing exposure of corruption and incompetence in his administration. Turns out cognitive dissonance is difficult to maintain when you pay attention to facts.
What ongoing exposure of what corruption?If you are referring to Steve Bannon, he isn't associated with the Trump Administration.

He was.  He was an advisor in the White House.  Literally privy to top secret information.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 21, 2020, 03:56:53 PM
Joe Biden draws a crowd in Delaware - https://streamable.com/pl5llr

Trump fans have to do something to distract themselves from the ongoing exposure of corruption and incompetence in his administration. Turns out cognitive dissonance is difficult to maintain when you pay attention to facts.
What ongoing exposure of what corruption?

USPS anyone?
Quote
If you are referring to Steve Bannon, he isn't associated with the Trump Administration.

Not anymore, Total Lackey at least not directly. Bannon’s allegedly fraudulent organization has ties with DTJr though.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on August 21, 2020, 03:59:44 PM
"I hardly knew the guy..."

I don't know about you, but Trump seems to not know a whole lot of people that he hand picked to work directly for him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 21, 2020, 05:36:34 PM
He was going to pick all the best people. Until he fired them or they left and they became incompetent idiots.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on August 22, 2020, 02:44:08 AM
It's important Joe Biden is given the best medical care known in the US. For Gods sake he was vice pres. , You ok joe?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 22, 2020, 10:48:24 AM
It's important Joe Biden is given the best medical care known in the US. For Gods sake he was vice pres. , You ok joe?

What? What does this pertain to?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on August 22, 2020, 11:04:28 AM
It's important Joe Biden is given the best medical care known in the US. For Gods sake he was vice pres. , You ok joe?

He's getting along just fine without posting random stuff on the interwebs. You OK, J-Man?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 22, 2020, 11:11:39 PM
Joe Biden grifting his speeches from other politicians again - https://nationalpost.com/news/joe-biden-accused-of-plagiarizing-from-jack-laytons-final-letter-in-nomination-speech
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 23, 2020, 04:36:16 AM
Joe Biden grifting his speeches from other politicians again - https://nationalpost.com/news/joe-biden-accused-of-plagiarizing-from-jack-laytons-final-letter-in-nomination-speech

Eh.
Its not a direct quote.  It has a similar tone but thats about it.  Not like its a complex 3 sentences.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on August 23, 2020, 10:53:43 AM
Joe Biden grifting his speeches from other politicians again

So what? If you think this paints Trump's speaking "skills" in a good light, think again...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 27, 2020, 12:47:55 PM
So what? If you think this paints Trump's speaking "skills" in a good light, think again...
Perhaps we should be able to discuss Joe Biden without regressing to "ok but Trump bad"? Their speaking skills can be looked at independently of one another.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on August 27, 2020, 11:46:34 PM
Once again, it's clear that the Democrats do not even like their own candidate, they are anti-Trump, not pro-Biden. This was the same way in 2016, when Democrats were anti-Trump, not pro-Clinton. It's the exact same thing that's going to cost them the election. The DNC had four years, four fucking years to find someone better than literally Donald Trump and they picked Joe Biden. It's like something out of a bad political novel.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 27, 2020, 11:52:41 PM
To be fair the GOP doesn’t like Trump either. Your country is fucked.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 28, 2020, 12:02:59 AM
So what? If you think this paints Trump's speaking "skills" in a good light, think again...
Perhaps we should be able to discuss Joe Biden without regressing to "ok but Trump bad"? Their speaking skills can be looked at independently of one another.

With Tom? Seems unlikely.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on August 28, 2020, 12:08:28 AM
To be fair the GOP doesn’t like Trump either. Your country is fucked.

The GOP doesn't like Trump but Trump has plenty of people who fanatically support him. That kind of fanatical support existing only on one side is what will likely cause Biden to lose.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 28, 2020, 01:20:03 AM
Joe Biden grifting his speeches from other politicians again

So what? If you think this paints Trump's speaking "skills" in a good light, think again...

I didn't say anything about Trump. You have some issues.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 28, 2020, 01:25:39 AM
Joe Biden grifting his speeches from other politicians again

So what? If you think this paints Trump's speaking "skills" in a good light, think again...

I didn't say anything about Trump. You have some issues.

You’ve said plenty on the topic of their respective speaking skills. Don’t be dishonest, Tom.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 28, 2020, 01:38:43 AM
To be fair the GOP doesn’t like Trump either. Your country is fucked.

The GOP doesn't like Trump but Trump has plenty of people who fanatically support him. That kind of fanatical support existing only on one side is what will likely cause Biden to lose.

Well the fanatics are a minority of the population so he will need something more than that. Not saying it won’t happen but it seems less likely than in 2016.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 28, 2020, 01:54:07 AM
To be fair the GOP doesn’t like Trump either. Your country is fucked.

The GOP doesn't like Trump but Trump has plenty of people who fanatically support him. That kind of fanatical support existing only on one side is what will likely cause Biden to lose.

The thing is that people who are against Trump are kind of fanatical about that, too, and that's only intensified after 4 years in office, so it's a different dynamic from what we've seen in the past.

But still you have a point, and I'm glad you made it. We need people making completely reasonable arguments about the danger we're facing in this election. You can never count Trump out, Republicans tend to turn out in higher numbers as a rule, and fear seems to be the only thing that really mobilizes Democrats, unfortunately. If people start seeing Joe's winning as a foregone conclusion they might just stay at home again. Although I do hope that the overwhelming hatred the majority of the country has for Trump is enough of a factor on its own that enough Democrats are primed to vote to make a difference.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: existoid on August 29, 2020, 03:18:03 AM
To be fair the GOP doesn’t like Trump either. Your country is fucked.

The GOP doesn't like Trump but Trump has plenty of people who fanatically support him. That kind of fanatical support existing only on one side is what will likely cause Biden to lose.



Well the fanatics are a minority of the population so he will need something more than that. Not saying it won’t happen but it seems less likely than in 2016.


Before the election in 2016 everyone knew that Trump would lose.  Then he didn't.

I think Rushy has a solid point - no one is excited about Biden. Like, literally no one.  Plenty of folks are still excited about Trump, even if a minority overall.  The elections are always decided by the center. And the center gets slightly pulled to the side that has the most passion overall.  Obama is a fantastic example of this.

I am not particularly a fan of Trump, but I think he has a decent chance.

One thing I read was that after the DNC convention there was a DIP in polls favoring Biden. That basically never happens. Conventions lead to (temporary) bumps in the polls for that side.  But the opposite happened this time for the the DNC.  Could be a symptom or example of the lack of enthusiasm for Biden.  That could be hugely problematic for the DNC...










Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 29, 2020, 09:01:50 PM
The thing is that people who are against Trump are kind of fanatical about that, too, and that's only intensified after 4 years in office, so it's a different dynamic from what we've seen in the past.

But still you have a point, and I'm glad you made it. We need people making completely reasonable arguments about the danger we're facing in this election. You can never count Trump out, Republicans tend to turn out in higher numbers as a rule, and fear seems to be the only thing that really mobilizes Democrats, unfortunately. If people start seeing Joe's winning as a foregone conclusion they might just stay at home again. Although I do hope that the overwhelming hatred the majority of the country has for Trump is enough of a factor on its own that enough Democrats are primed to vote to make a difference.

Ok, let's unpack this nonsense.

The thing is that people who are against Trump are kind of fanatical about that, too, and that's only intensified after 4 years in office, so it's a different dynamic from what we've seen in the past.
This is a one horse race. Are you for Trump or against Trump? No one cares about Biden.

We need people making completely reasonable arguments about the danger we're facing in this election.
Why are Democrats always so melodramatic? There is no danger. You might not get your first pick of President but its not the end of the world.

You can never count Trump out,
Rule him out? He's going to win. What kind of echo chamber are you living in to think a man with full blown dementia is going to be elected by middle America instead? Also Biden being weak on crime is the final nail. You can't side with rioters and those advocating to defund the police. What an asshat.

If people start seeing Joe's winning as a foregone conclusion
Then they need to stop watching so much CNN.

Although I do hope that the overwhelming hatred the majority of the country has for Trump is enough of a factor on its own that enough Democrats are primed to vote to make a difference.
People won't vote against a President. Apathy will reign supreme. They need someone to vote for and literally no one is excited about Biden.

4 more years.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 30, 2020, 01:16:31 AM
Thork, you obviously don’t pay much attention. Some segments of Fox News has been praising Biden and criticizing Trump lately. This isn’t just a left wing echo chamber.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 30, 2020, 02:03:04 PM
Thork lives in a fantasy world. No incumbent President with a favorability rating under 48% has ever won reelection. Trump's has never gone above 42. Biden is still kicking his ass in the polls. There's simply no logical reason to think Trump has a better shot at winning right now.

It's weird that right-wingers in other countries would be in denial about the state of the election right now, but apparently even they can be delusional about where this is headed.

But I do love him for being there to help sow the seeds of fear. Thanks for the effort, Thork, it can only help.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 30, 2020, 03:20:38 PM
Thork lives in a fantasy world. No incumbent President with a favorability rating under 48% has ever won reelection. Trump's has never gone above 42. Biden is still kicking his ass in the polls. There's simply no logical reason to think Trump has a better shot at winning right now.
Biden is only leading by 6 percentage points? Biden is toast.
https://time.com/4546942/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-lead-poll/

1) The US media is almost all left wing.
2) They know that many left-wing Americans are narcissistic babies and will only vote if they think they will win. Seems so many Americans hate losing that they won't vote for a candidate that will likely lose. The left are always told that they will win.
3) Conservative voters are much less likely to tell posters their voting intentions as left wingers tend to get violent.
4) Many young people (who are much more likely to vote left) tend to be very vocal about their voting intentions and then don't bother their arses to vote on the day. Same with the hispanic vote. 

It's weird that right-wingers in other countries would be in denial about the state of the election right now, but apparently even they can be delusional about where this is headed.

But I do love him for being there to help sow the seeds of fear. Thanks for the effort, Thork, it can only help.
Every election in the last 5 years that predicted a left wing vote massively over inflated their chances.

Trump 2016
Brexit
UK Conservative whitewash 2019

You guys won't learn.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy_Tory_factor
The shy Tory factor is a name given by British opinion polling companies to a phenomenon first observed by psephologists in the early 1990s. They observed that the share of the electoral vote won by the Conservative Party (known colloquially as the "Tories") was significantly higher than the equivalent share in opinion polls.[1] The accepted explanation was that so-called "shy Tories" were voting Conservative after telling pollsters they would not. The general elections held in 1992 and 2015 are examples where it has dramatically affected the overall result, but has also been discussed in other elections where the Conservatives did unexpectedly well. It has also been applied to the success of the Republican Party in the United States.

+6% means you guys will get wrecked in the final reckoning.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 30, 2020, 04:06:49 PM
This insight by the guy who frequently shits on polls as not worthwhile.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 30, 2020, 04:14:03 PM
2018 blue wave.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 30, 2020, 05:02:27 PM
This insight by the guy who frequently shits on polls as not worthwhile.
I've heard all this from the left before. One day you'll win an election, but I don't think it will be in 2020.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on August 30, 2020, 05:59:40 PM
All these partisan warriors are missing the fact that Trump was a gigantic piece of shit long before he became president. Because the American public has the attention span of a house fly, they've forgotten all about Marla Maples, Trump Taj Mahal, Trump University and all the other bullshit that is his life. This has nothing to do with left or right media, his public life is decades of scandal and failure. But some stupid catch phrases and empty, impossible promises is all it takes for dumbass people whip out their credit cards to order now. This man destroyed his family's fortune, crashed a half dozen companies into the ground while saddling all those small contractors with the cost in bankruptcy filings. American finance institutions won't go near this guy but the ignorant public is buying his ghost-written books on business. His only real success money-wise was stamping his name on cheap imported crap and selling it to dumb rednecks. Then he shot himself in the dick with his "MAGA! Made in America" routine, and destroyed that business too.

But, this is where the Democrats will lose. Their trying to use logic and truth on a public that believes the garbage they read in the National Enquirer. If the Democrats, "Go high when they go low," they're going to get kicked in the nuts again.

I'm a politically conservative Libertarian independent who owns guns and has a concealed carry permit. But because I'm not stupid and I don't eat his shit, he calls me a liberal globalist who hates America and wants to take your guns. Fuck him.

He's using the conservative movement, the Republicans, the Evangelicals to further his agenda just like he was using Hillary Clinton and the Democrats a few years ago when they suited him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 30, 2020, 06:31:29 PM
Thork lives in a fantasy world. No incumbent President with a favorability rating under 48% has ever won reelection. Trump's has never gone above 42. Biden is still kicking his ass in the polls. There's simply no logical reason to think Trump has a better shot at winning right now.
Biden is only leading by 6 percentage points? Biden is toast.
https://time.com/4546942/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-lead-poll/

1) The US media is almost all left wing.
2) They know that many left-wing Americans are narcissistic babies and will only vote if they think they will win. Seems so many Americans hate losing that they won't vote for a candidate that will likely lose. The left are always told that they will win.
3) Conservative voters are much less likely to tell posters their voting intentions as left wingers tend to get violent.
4) Many young people (who are much more likely to vote left) tend to be very vocal about their voting intentions and then don't bother their arses to vote on the day. Same with the hispanic vote. 

It's weird that right-wingers in other countries would be in denial about the state of the election right now, but apparently even they can be delusional about where this is headed.

But I do love him for being there to help sow the seeds of fear. Thanks for the effort, Thork, it can only help.
Every election in the last 5 years that predicted a left wing vote massively over inflated their chances.

Trump 2016
Brexit
UK Conservative whitewash 2019

You guys won't learn.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy_Tory_factor
The shy Tory factor is a name given by British opinion polling companies to a phenomenon first observed by psephologists in the early 1990s. They observed that the share of the electoral vote won by the Conservative Party (known colloquially as the "Tories") was significantly higher than the equivalent share in opinion polls.[1] The accepted explanation was that so-called "shy Tories" were voting Conservative after telling pollsters they would not. The general elections held in 1992 and 2015 are examples where it has dramatically affected the overall result, but has also been discussed in other elections where the Conservatives did unexpectedly well. It has also been applied to the success of the Republican Party in the United States.

+6% means you guys will get wrecked in the final reckoning.

Yes, yes. Keep sowing that fear! Democrats not showing up to vote is exactly what I'm afraid of in this election, and the Right's constant assurances that Trump will win despite what the polls say is the ideal antidote. Thanks again for your contribution to the cause!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 30, 2020, 06:40:17 PM
Many years ago Trump owned an airline called Trump Shuttle. Here is what one of his former employees (pilot) had to say about him.

Quote from: ex-Trump employee
It really wasn't a failure. I think it was pretty successful. I mean, Trump saved our careers, I mean, absolutely. They really took care of their employees. My wife, who had breast cancer, the CEO of the company, he said, "Hey, any bills that aren't covered, just leave it on my desk."

I left some bills on those desks. It was like, I don't know, a $30,000 pharmacy bill. You know, that's how I was treated, and so I'm sure that came down from Trump. I don't have anything bad to say.

Today, the US Air Shuttle is known as the American Airlines Shuttle. It serves New York, Boston, Washington, and Chicago.

Could you imagine Biden doing that in your wildest dreams?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on August 30, 2020, 06:47:02 PM
Many years ago Trump owned an airline called Trump Shuttle. Here is what one of his former employees (pilot) had to say about him.

Quote from: ex-Trump employee
It really wasn't a failure. I think it was pretty successful. I mean, Trump saved our careers, I mean, absolutely. They really took care of their employees. My wife, who had breast cancer, the CEO of the company, he said, "Hey, any bills that aren't covered, just leave it on my desk."

I left some bills on those desks. It was like, I don't know, a $30,000 pharmacy bill. You know, that's how I was treated, and so I'm sure that came down from Trump. I don't have anything bad to say.

Today, the US Air Shuttle is known as the American Airlines Shuttle. It serves New York, Boston, Washington, and Chicago.


You're quoting Trump generated mythology and believing it.

Trump fired 100 employees. Just 18 months after the Trump Shuttle launch, the airline had already lost $128 million. In 1992, Donald Trump decided it was time to bail. Trump Shuttle's majority stakeholder, Citigroup, started negotiating a sale with US Air, who still saw value in the product. Donald Trump claimed he didn't lose money on the shuttle. He told the Boston Globe, "I'm smart. I got out at a good time."

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 31, 2020, 04:06:02 AM
Many years ago Trump owned an airline called Trump Shuttle. Here is what one of his former employees (pilot) had to say about him.

Quote from: ex-Trump employee
It really wasn't a failure. I think it was pretty successful. I mean, Trump saved our careers, I mean, absolutely. They really took care of their employees. My wife, who had breast cancer, the CEO of the company, he said, "Hey, any bills that aren't covered, just leave it on my desk."

I left some bills on those desks. It was like, I don't know, a $30,000 pharmacy bill. You know, that's how I was treated, and so I'm sure that came down from Trump. I don't have anything bad to say.

Today, the US Air Shuttle is known as the American Airlines Shuttle. It serves New York, Boston, Washington, and Chicago.

Could you imagine Biden doing that in your wildest dreams?

So you're saying that Trump personally knew that one guy who worked for a company he owned but didn't manage and told the ceo to cover medical bills not covered by their crappy insurance?

No.  Its far more likely that the CEO did it themselves, hiding the bills in the company's finances.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 31, 2020, 06:05:49 AM
No.  Its far more likely that the CEO did it themselves, hiding the bills in the company's finances.


Quote from: ex-Trump employee
and so I'm sure that came down from Trump.
Sure. Clearly you with your TDS having not been there, have a better idea than the guy it actually happened to.  ::)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 31, 2020, 07:55:57 AM
And then everybody clapped.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 31, 2020, 09:23:27 AM
No.  Its far more likely that the CEO did it themselves, hiding the bills in the company's finances.


Quote from: ex-Trump employee
and so I'm sure that came down from Trump.
Sure. Clearly you with your TDS having not been there, have a better idea than the guy it actually happened to.  ::)

Does that sound like Trump?  Doing expensive, good deeds without recognition?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 31, 2020, 05:00:55 PM
No.  Its far more likely that the CEO did it themselves, hiding the bills in the company's finances.


Quote from: ex-Trump employee
and so I'm sure that came down from Trump.
Sure. Clearly you with your TDS having not been there, have a better idea than the guy it actually happened to.  ::)

The guy makes it clear in your quote that he's assuming the money came down from Trump. He states that it was the CEO who actually made the offer. But I guess you know better than the guy it actually happened to who didn't know himself.  ::)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: existoid on August 31, 2020, 05:30:14 PM
Sooo....back to the OP of this thread -


Now that the RNC and DNC conventions are over, what are the best guesses?  Who is REALLY going to win?  Biden is up by around 6% right?  But hasn't that gap been narrowing for a while now?  It's still two whole months away.  Is Biden a sure thing, or does Trump have a good chance?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on August 31, 2020, 06:18:34 PM
Trump's premise from the convention is largely;

"Look at all the riots that are happening under my Presidency, right now. This is what you'll get if you elect Biden. Vote for four more years of me"

The sub-text to that is "... so that... we don't get more of the same. Even though this is what's happening 3.5 years after I took office"
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: TomInAustin on August 31, 2020, 06:24:24 PM
Sooo....back to the OP of this thread -


Now that the RNC and DNC conventions are over, what are the best guesses?  Who is REALLY going to win?  Biden is up by around 6% right?  But hasn't that gap been narrowing for a while now?  It's still two whole months away.  Is Biden a sure thing, or does Trump have a good chance?

Thoughts?

One thing the polls do not show is the huge numbers of life long Republicans that will hold their noses and vote for Trump.   Too lazy to look it up but a recent poll showed that a large number of people are not honest with pollsters.  Many people are afraid of repercussions if they announce for Trump.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: existoid on August 31, 2020, 06:25:23 PM
Trump's premise from the convention is largely;

"Look at all the riots that are happening under my Presidency, right now. This is what you'll get if you elect Biden. Vote for four more years of me"

The sub-text to that is "... so that... we don't get more of the same. Even though this is what's happening 3.5 years after I took office"

That is an interesting point.  Given that Trump has utterly failed to influence any real police reform (qualified immunity, training, all sorts of potential measures), it's kind of laughable that he would blame Biden for these riots.  Hilarious in fact. 

I can't say I've seen some realistic plan from Biden on how to address and stop the riots, though, either.

But the larger point of discussion would then be - are the riots going to help Trump (because law and order) or help Biden (because police brutality) ?  I can kind of seeing it go either way.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: existoid on August 31, 2020, 06:28:44 PM
Sooo....back to the OP of this thread -


Now that the RNC and DNC conventions are over, what are the best guesses?  Who is REALLY going to win?  Biden is up by around 6% right?  But hasn't that gap been narrowing for a while now?  It's still two whole months away.  Is Biden a sure thing, or does Trump have a good chance?

Thoughts?

One thing the polls do not show is the huge numbers of life long Republicans that will hold their noses and vote for Trump.   Too lazy to look it up but a recent poll showed that a large number of people are not honest with pollsters.  Many people are afraid of repercussions if they announce for Trump.

Yeah, that could be.   So, let's say that phenomenon has a 5% impact in favor of Trump, such that he's 1% below Biden (which is the same as saying they are exactly equal, given polling norms of errors), this means it could go either way and we have no idea.

So, before Nov. 2, 2016 Hillary was pretty close to certain to win. But now, Biden merely has an equal chance?  This is strangely turning out to be a fascinating race. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on August 31, 2020, 06:44:24 PM
I can't say I've seen some realistic plan from Biden on how to address and stop the riots, though, either.

Given that the protests are against police brutality, and Trump wants to meet this with more brutality, I would dismiss his plan as unrealistic. If pushed to the extreme, this could bring the country to civil war again.

Unaware of it being explicitly stated, but police reform and reduction in police brutality/ethnic bias would seem to be Biden's best option.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: TomInAustin on August 31, 2020, 07:10:19 PM
I can't say I've seen some realistic plan from Biden on how to address and stop the riots, though, either.

Given that the protests are against police brutality, and Trump wants to meet this with more brutality, I would dismiss his plan as unrealistic. If pushed to the extreme, this could bring the country to civil war again.

Unaware of it being explicitly stated, but police reform and reduction in police brutality/ethnic bias would seem to be Biden's best option.

Biden waited too long to denounce the violence and that scares the crap out of half the country.   

It still boils down to this for me...  Are these really the best two we could come up with.  I said the same in 16 but this makes that look like a picnic. 

Being an old fart, I have observed American politics for decades and I am blown away by the hatred each side has for the other.  I think civil war is a very real possibility no matter who wins.  The other side is going to scream cheaters!   Being very middle of the road and libertarian (not the party, the concepts) puts me in a weird place.  It's like going to prison, you have to pick a side.  Both sides are very poor choices.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 31, 2020, 07:14:27 PM
I can't say I've seen some realistic plan from Biden on how to address and stop the riots, though, either.

Given that the protests are against police brutality, and Trump wants to meet this with more brutality, I would dismiss his plan as unrealistic. If pushed to the extreme, this could bring the country to civil war again.

Unaware of it being explicitly stated, but police reform and reduction in police brutality/ethnic bias would seem to be Biden's best option.

Biden waited too long to denounce the violence and that scares the crap out of half the country.   

It still boils down to this for me...  Are these really the best two we could come up with.  I said the same in 16 but this makes that look like a picnic. 

Being an old fart, I have observed American politics for decades and I am blown away by the hatred each side has for the other.  I think civil war is a very real possibility no matter who wins.  The other side is going to scream cheaters!   Being very middle of the road and libertarian (not the party, the concepts) puts me in a weird place.  It's like going to prison, you have to pick a side.  Both sides are very poor choices.

Of course.  Its because both sides do anything they can to stop a 3rd party from forming with any real power.  The Tea Party has promise but they got sucked into the Republicans.

And as for the best they could come up with: Well, the people spoke.  And people are dumb.  They choose name recognition or "best chance to win" over actual policies and skill.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: TomInAustin on August 31, 2020, 07:24:46 PM

Biden waited too long to denounce the violence and that scares the crap out of half the country.   

It still boils down to this for me...  Are these really the best two we could come up with.  I said the same in 16 but this makes that look like a picnic. 

Being an old fart, I have observed American politics for decades and I am blown away by the hatred each side has for the other.  I think civil war is a very real possibility no matter who wins.  The other side is going to scream cheaters!   Being very middle of the road and libertarian (not the party, the concepts) puts me in a weird place.  It's like going to prison, you have to pick a side.  Both sides are very poor choices.

Of course.  Its because both sides do anything they can to stop a 3rd party from forming with any real power.  The Tea Party has promise but they got sucked into the Republicans.

And as for the best they could come up with: Well, the people spoke.  And people are dumb.  They choose name recognition or "best chance to win" over actual policies and skill.

Agree and a real 3rd party is our only hope.  With warlords like Mccain and Schumer and entrenched Nancy Pelosi and Mitch Mcconnell types only carrying about the party and personal power and wealth we will never get anywhere.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on August 31, 2020, 07:35:43 PM

Biden waited too long to denounce the violence and that scares the crap out of half the country.   

It still boils down to this for me...  Are these really the best two we could come up with.  I said the same in 16 but this makes that look like a picnic. 

Being an old fart, I have observed American politics for decades and I am blown away by the hatred each side has for the other.  I think civil war is a very real possibility no matter who wins.  The other side is going to scream cheaters!   Being very middle of the road and libertarian (not the party, the concepts) puts me in a weird place.  It's like going to prison, you have to pick a side.  Both sides are very poor choices.

Of course.  Its because both sides do anything they can to stop a 3rd party from forming with any real power.  The Tea Party has promise but they got sucked into the Republicans.

And as for the best they could come up with: Well, the people spoke.  And people are dumb.  They choose name recognition or "best chance to win" over actual policies and skill.

Agree and a real 3rd party is our only hope.  With warlords like Mccain and Schumer and entrenched Nancy Pelosi and Mitch Mcconnell types only carrying about the party and personal power and wealth we will never get anywhere.

California has ranked choice voting.  I loved voting there.  I could vote my conscience AND not throw away my vote.  Superb.

Until the whole US adopts it or something similar we're going to be stuck with two parties.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 01, 2020, 03:56:15 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/HpX2JBT/Egxqcg1-Xs-AUz-Ad-R.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 01, 2020, 05:39:53 AM
I wish you would use your own words to form your arguments and stop posting these dumb memes. They're really annoying. And Biden has never been in favor of rioting.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 01, 2020, 06:37:25 AM
He did take too long to condemn it, and it was because he thought it would be politically advantageous. A drop in the bucket compared to the evil Trump inflicts on the country on a regular basis but it is a reminder that Biden is just another pandering politician at heart.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 01, 2020, 06:40:33 AM
I wish you would use your own words to form your arguments and stop posting these dumb memes. They're really annoying.
Take this as an opportunity to think about your constant reposting of that one photo of Trump. At least Tom uses multiple images, and keeps them roughly up to date.

And Biden has never been in favor of rioting.
I dunno, he's been pretty happy to talk to BLM'ers, proudly announcing that he would totally, definitely not use them for political gain, and that his support for them is purely based in a heartfelt feeling of racial justice. As BLM's support is now plummeting, Joe will have to make some difficult decisions about who to side with. Or maybe it'll stop plummeting and JB will enjoy a free ride on the subject. We'll see.

In other news, President Record Player is back at it again. This time, COVID has taken this year, just since the outbreak... has taken more than 100 year. Look! Here's— The lives... It's just... you mean, think about it. More lives this year than any other year for the past hundred years!


https://v.omgomg.eu/biden_covid


I kind of hope he wins and lives long enough to make a State of the Union address. It would be delicious.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 01, 2020, 09:19:13 AM

Transcript:
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/joe-biden-pittsburgh-speech-transcript-august-31


Quote
COVID has taken this year, just since the outbreak, has taken more than 100… Look, the lives, when you think about it, more lives this year than any other year for the past 100 years. More than 180,000 lives in just six months, an average of 1,000 people dying every day in the month of August. Do you really feel safe under Donald Trump?

Yeah, he mispoke.  He got ahead of himself in his speech.
And I'm fairly certain he was referring to deaths in America, not COVID deaths.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 01, 2020, 09:35:15 AM
He has full blown dementia, and the evil Marxist cowards who could never get elected with their own wicked ideas are pushing a 'moderate' puppet. They don't care how undignified it is.

I don't understand how so much of the country is taken in by the party that is obviously evil. But I guess that's how Hitler came to power.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 01, 2020, 10:04:23 AM
He has full blown dementia, and the evil Marxist cowards who could never get elected with their own wicked ideas are pushing a 'moderate' puppet. They don't care how undignified it is.

I don't understand how so much of the country is taken in by the party that is obviously evil. But I guess that's how Hitler came to power.

Actually Hitler rose in power by using fear tactics to scapegoat the destruction of parliament on Dutch immigrants (his party did it) to give the Chancelor extra powers, then became Chancelor by blaming all the problems everyone had on minority groups (immigrants, disabled, gylsies, jews,etc..), encouraging violence against them, then promising to 'keep them safe away from us' by loading them on Trains.

He wasn't obviously evil.  Also, you just described Trump.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 01, 2020, 01:43:30 PM
He has full blown dementia, and the evil Marxist cowards who could never get elected with their own wicked ideas are pushing a 'moderate' puppet. They don't care how undignified it is.

I don't understand how so much of the country is taken in by the party that is obviously evil. But I guess that's how Hitler came to power.

Actually Hitler rose in power by using fear tactics to scapegoat the destruction of parliament on Dutch immigrants (his party did it) to give the Chancelor extra powers, then became Chancelor by blaming all the problems everyone had on minority groups (immigrants, disabled, gylsies, jews,etc..), encouraging violence against them, then promising to 'keep them safe away from us' by loading them on Trains.

He wasn't obviously evil.  Also, you just described Trump.

It's crazy how often right-wingers, while trying to paint the Left as evil, end up just describing their own side. Projection seems to be a legitimate political tool in their eyes.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 01, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
The left is evil. The left starts from the premise of theft and all other ideas flourish from there. The left is inherently wicked. Its founding premise is a crime against simple citizens.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 01, 2020, 03:13:11 PM
The left is evil. The left starts from the premise of theft and all other ideas flourish from there. The left is inherently wicked. Its founding premise is a crime against simple citizens.

TIL taxes are theft.

Hopefully Thork will realize both the left and right tax people.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 01, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
The left is evil. The left starts from the premise of theft and all other ideas flourish from there. The left is inherently wicked. Its founding premise is a crime against simple citizens.

I'm not sure you understand what 'left' means.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 01, 2020, 04:06:28 PM
Because the American public has the attention span of a house fly, they've forgotten all about Marla Maples, Trump Taj Mahal, Trump University and all the other bullshit that is his life. This has nothing to do with left or right media, his public life is decades of scandal and failure.

The trouble is that he throws so much sh*t around, it becomes difficult to keep track of it all. American or not, someone can mention something Trump said or did from merely a few weeks ago, and with all that's happened between, it seems like an eternity ago.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on September 01, 2020, 07:38:36 PM
I don't understand how so much of the country is taken in by the party that is obviously evil. But I guess that's how Hitler came to power.

Was it Biden or Trump that said Nazi's were good people?

I can't remember... which side has literal Nazi's marching on the streets to unite the... was it left or right?

And those awful Anti-Facisist liberals... yeah, I'm pretty sure I know which side Hitler would vote for.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 01, 2020, 08:06:08 PM
I'm pretty sure I know which side Hitler would vote for.

Nazi ... national socialist ... he'd vote for Bernie. Bernie also likes shouting and demanding to take money off rich Jews.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 01, 2020, 09:10:43 PM
I'm pretty sure I know which side Hitler would vote for.

Nazi ... national socialist ... he'd vote for Bernie. Bernie also likes shouting and demanding to take money off rich Jews.
You do know that Most Authoritarian governments are Right, politically, yes?  Liberals have democracy, Conservatives have dictators.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 01, 2020, 09:59:19 PM
All these partisan warriors are missing the fact that Trump was a gigantic piece of shit long before he became president. Because the American public has the attention span of a house fly, they've forgotten all about Marla Maples, Trump Taj Mahal, Trump University and all the other bullshit that is his life. This has nothing to do with left or right media, his public life is decades of scandal and failure. But some stupid catch phrases and empty, impossible promises is all it takes for dumbass people whip out their credit cards to order now. This man destroyed his family's fortune, crashed a half dozen companies into the ground while saddling all those small contractors with the cost in bankruptcy filings. American finance institutions won't go near this guy but the ignorant public is buying his ghost-written books on business. His only real success money-wise was stamping his name on cheap imported crap and selling it to dumb rednecks. Then he shot himself in the dick with his "MAGA! Made in America" routine, and destroyed that business too.

This is all true, but arguably The Apprentice was the biggest vehicle for Trump's rehabilitation. I know I've linked this article (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/01/07/how-mark-burnett-resurrected-donald-trump-as-an-icon-of-american-success) before, but I want to encourage anyone who hasn't already to read it, especially people who may not realize how heavily scripted the show was, and how deliberately it manufactured the idea that Trump was a great businessman. Before that show, everyone knew that Trump was a joke.

Take this as an opportunity to think about your constant reposting of that one photo of Trump.

That was months ago. I haven't done that since totallackey appropriated it and made it a pro-Trump image. It is now powerless as a symbol in my hands. :(
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 01, 2020, 10:47:40 PM
I'm pretty sure I know which side Hitler would vote for.

Nazi ... national socialist ... he'd vote for Bernie. Bernie also likes shouting and demanding to take money off rich Jews.
You do know that Most Authoritarian governments are Right, politically, yes?  Liberals have democracy, Conservatives have dictators.

Demonstrably false.

With the exception of the nazis who were painted as right* (they aren't right wing but we'll look at that in a second), almost all authoritarians are left wing. Of course they are left-wing, it is the left who believe in huge all powerful governments that control every aspect of their citizens lives. Other than nazi Germany who aren't actually right wing, you'll have to google to name another one.


*There was no fundemental difference between what Hitler did and what Stalin did.

Both used secret police.
Both sought to control the means of production
Hitler persecuted the Jews, Stalin persecuted the kulaks
Both were happy to kill millions
Both wanted to expand their borders via conquest
Both were dictators

So after WW2 when the allies were deciding to write history they made some important choices.
1) It wasn't the Germans ... it was the Nazis. Germans good, Nazis bad.
2) Nazis are right wing and communists are left wing. They are not to be described as like Russians. They must be the other end of the political spectrum. Couldn't be further apart in ideology ... except for doing all the exact same things, of course. Stalin would not let Nazis be painted as both bad and having similar ideology to Russians. There is no such thing as right and left wing before the late 1930s. It's the same kind of bodge that says Nazis are evil, Germans are good.
What you actually have are authoritarians and libertarians. Authoritarians are dangerous. The Democrats are dangerous. They are the party looking to restrict your freedoms and dominate every aspect of your life with big government. Yet you still want to vote for the evil party. Just like the Germans Nazis.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 01, 2020, 11:20:52 PM
Without Googling, two very obvious examples of right-wing authoritarian regimes are Spain under Franco and Italy under Mussolini. And yes, the Nazis were also right-wing. The word "socialist" being in their full name did not make their actual policies and governance socialist. I don't know what all the talk about how bad Stalin was (he certainly was very bad) or how Germans are good while Nazis are bad has to do with it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 02, 2020, 08:58:44 AM
The word "socialist" being in their full name did not make their actual policies and governance socialist.
Of course, the name makes no difference. It's their economic and social policy that does. It gets a bit overshadowed by the whole "psychotic genocidal dictatorship that waged war with most of the world" kerfuffle, but there was a lot of left wing sentiment in the kind of support they provided for their working class.

The "fun" part here is that different people use "left" and "right" to mean different things, mostly because the division is so outdated that it can't really apply to anything remotely recent.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 09, 2020, 01:38:47 AM
MSNBC says Joe Biden’s campaign “lacks the dynamism, the energy” of a presidential campaign

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=B3wSbw11zUs&feature=emb_title
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 09, 2020, 02:07:49 AM
No, he says it lacks the dynamism and energy "of campaigns that you and I have covered in the past," not "of a presidential campaign." He's comparing it to other campaigns, not declaring it unworthy of even being considered a presidential campaign. What a stupid argument.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 09, 2020, 08:00:47 AM
MSNBC says Joe Biden’s campaign “lacks the dynamism, the energy” of a presidential campaign

Yeah, so?

 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 09, 2020, 09:50:14 AM
MSNBC says Joe Biden’s campaign “lacks the dynamism, the energy” of a presidential campaign
It's really worrying if they or you think this matters.
Surely what matters is not whether he puts on a show but what he says.
If you disagree with his policies (I mean his actual ones, not the ones people like Trump claims he has) then fine.
But what does this nonsense have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 10:20:15 AM
Surely what matters is not whether he puts on a show but what he says.
He recently said a black man invented the light bulb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPcLtrNATvY

Where do you go with that? I mean let us be as generous to Biden as we can. Either

1) He deliberately lied because he feels black people have no real achievements and he wanted to hand them one
2) He honestly thinks a black man invented the light bulb because he is surrounded by liars who have been pumping his brain full of this nonsense
3) He doesn't even know what he had for breakfast, so bad is his dementia.

Now you can pick. And we'll be generous and go with your explanation. Which of those 3 do you want and how does that behaviour seem presidential?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 09, 2020, 10:45:32 AM
Surely what matters is not whether he puts on a show but what he says.
He recently said a black man invented the light bulb.
*Googles*

Well that took me about 2 minutes. He's clearly referring to Lewis Latimer:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/04/us/biden-lightbulb-black-man-trnd/index.html

Quote
As far as we know, Edison did invent the light bulb, but a Black inventor named Lewis Latimer actually made it better and more accessible.
After years of experiments and thousands of tests of various filament materials, [Edison's] longest-lasting light bulb could only last for about 15 hours before the filament burned out.
Around the same time Edison was experimenting with his bulb -- using carbonized filaments of bay wood, cedar, bamboo and other fibers -- so was Latimer.
According to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Latimer improved upon Edison's original design. Latimer created a light bulb with a more durable filament made of carbon. He sold the patent to the US Electric Co. in 1881, and a year later patented a process for efficiently manufacturing the carbon filament. He even wrote a book in 1890 on electric lighting, the first of its kind.
Because of Latimer's contributions, incandescent light bulbs became more affordable and practical, MIT says, thus transforming American culture.

So I guess the point he's making is why is Latimer not better known in which case he has a point.
It was pandering to the audience he was talking to but I'd expect that from a politician. Biden's opponents will obviously try to spin this as "the old man's lost it", but he is referring to historical truths even if he somewhat twists them. It's hardly the Goodness Gracious Me character who claims everything is Indian.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 11:08:32 AM
Yeah he’s pandering for sure.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 11:21:38 AM
So I guess the point he's making is why is Latimer not better known in which case he has a point.
Because who the hell cares who incrementally improved a light bulb once upon a time? That's like saying Henry Ford invented the car but *insert black man* invented the clutch and so clutch guy needs more recognition. Unfortunately clutch guy happens to be Professor Henry Selby Hele-Shaw who was a white guy so instantly Biden isn't interested. But why should I or anyone be interested in filament guy? Because he's black? That's racist.

It was pandering to the audience
Well you are right about that. Biden is a manipulative piece of shit from the same stable as Hilary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi. The dems should stay out of power until their current generation of old Marxists are all either dead or retired.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 11:52:32 AM
Well you are right about that. Biden is a manipulative piece of shit from the same stable as Hilary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi. The dems should stay out of power until their current generation of old Marxists are all either dead or retired.

If you think that Trump isn't at least as manipulative (he is worse), then you are deluded.  Trump has made an exceptional amount of pandering and patently false claims.  So many that his presidency has basically turned in to a 4 year gish gallop.  Also, if you think Biden is a Marxist, then you literally have no idea what Marxism is.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 09, 2020, 12:18:05 PM
Because who the hell cares who incrementally improved a light bulb once upon a time?

Can't you read? This wasn't some "incremental improvement". Let me quote a bit of that article again for you:

Quote
Latimer created a light bulb with a more durable filament made of carbon. He sold the patent to the US Electric Co. in 1881, and a year later patented a process for efficiently manufacturing the carbon filament. He even wrote a book in 1890 on electric lighting, the first of its kind.
Because of Latimer's contributions, incandescent light bulbs became more affordable and practical, MIT says, thus transforming American culture.

There' I've even bolded the most important part for you.
Henry Ford didn't invent the car by the way, from what I understand he invented the production line, but anyway your comparison is ridiculous.

Quote
But why should I or anyone be interested in filament guy?

Because of the bit I've quoted, particularly the bolded part.
So yeah, Biden was pandering to the audience he was talking to and to say Latimer invented the lightbulb is a stretch.
But your initial post implies he said it because he's confused, when a 2 minute Google shows pretty clearly what and who he was referring to.
One could argue that saying it to that particular audience was a pretty shrewd thing to do.

So which is it? Is he pandering to a crowd in a politically smart way, or is he a dementia patient? He can't be both.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 12:39:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2chrFOwf-YE&feature=youtu.be&t=1500

Less than 5 mins later ... to paraphrase Biden ... why in God's name don't we tell the truth about mixed race families? They are very rare. Less than 2% of the US. The man is a sinister hypocrite.

He is trying to paint white Americans as guilty of an original sin. Being born white and so somehow guilty of slavery. Despite no one alive having anything to do with slavery. Like the media he's constantly painting black people as heroes and victims and white people as evil greedy oppressors. White Americans need to stand up for themselves.

Systemic racism is something that Western Marxists have developed over time, its rooted in critical theory (CT) , specifically the subset critical race theory (CRT). It takes the classical Marxist oppressor-oppressed dialectic conflict and turns it onto race. Race was not a major aspect of Marxist theory in the previous century because it was thought to be simply a type of class conflict. The new age of Marxists that follow CT actually believe that the oppressor is creating a system of oppression from which he can benefit, thus when they say "white supremacy" they mean the oppressor is maintaining the system of oppression for his own benefit. This is why you don't have to actually be racist to be a racist supremacist, because systemic racism and racism are fundamentally different things. Basically,  you are racist if you don't want to destroy the system so that's why they are destroying the system: to prove that they are not. There's a lot more to write about this, but to keep it short: anyone who uses language like "systemic racism" is engaging you in open warfare, they are your enemy, they want you dead.

If you are white and you are voting Democrat, your have learning difficulties. Listen to what the man says ...
https://youtu.be/dcx6_2LmcG4?t=4912

He just accused you of original sin. You are white and therefore guilty of a crime. If someone accuses you of an original sin, they are saying that you are the enemy. There's no trial. There's no jury. The evidence is that you are white and therefore you are guilty. There's no redemption. No forgiveness. You are evil because you exist. Americans need to kick the Dems and their race baiting into touch in the election. We did that in the UK and both the lib dems and the Labour party are now being cleansed of these revolting ideas. You don't vote for a party that paints you as wicked. That's just stupid. And I don't think Americans are stupid. I think Trump's got this.


Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 12:46:06 PM
Do you vote for a party whose leader declares that Nazis are good people and refuses to condemn them?  This is the situation in the USA.  Neither is a great choice.

P.S. You still don't know what a Marxist is if you think there is any hint of Marxism in US politics.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 01:18:47 PM
Do you vote for a party whose leader declares that Nazis are good people and refuses to condemn them?

Who told you this? Fact check it. You are believing a lie from a man who thinks you are guilty of original sin. Surely the choice of who to vote for is simple?

Trump has a long history of condemning racism and white supremacists.

https://youtu.be/4txFXtgqK18?t=29

How much condemning does he need to do?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 09, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
Do you vote for a party whose leader declares that Nazis are good people and refuses to condemn them?

Who told you this? Fact check it. You are believing a lie from a man who thinks you are guilty of original sin. Surely the choice of who to vote for is simple?

Trump has a long history of condemning racism and white supremacists.

https://youtu.be/4txFXtgqK18?t=29

How much condemning does he need to do?
Preferably without the need for a prepared statement written by someone else.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 01:50:07 PM
Preferably without the need for a prepared statement written by someone else.
You mean a speech? Condemning nazis over and over isn't enough for you. You want him to condemn nazis in the exact way you specify or it doesn't count. So unless Trump condemns Nazis at midnight in the town of Little Rock whilst sat upon a horse on the 2nd of July in the presence of at least 3 million Mexicans, then he must endorse Nazism. 🙄
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 02:03:11 PM
Preferably without the need for a prepared statement written by someone else.
You mean a speech? Condemning nazis over and over isn't enough for you. You want him to condemn nazis in the exact way you specify or it doesn't count. So unless Trump condemns Nazis at midnight in the town of Little Rock whilst sat upon a horse on the 2nd of July in the presence of at least 3 million Mexicans, then he must endorse Nazism. 🙄

He did that after he had declared them to be good people. You will understand why I don’t think he is sincere.

This is the same person that one day encourages people to wear masks and then disparages the use the next.

It’s also hilariously out of touch that you think I agree with Biden when I have admitted he is pandering. Perhaps take a breath and read my words as written.

Or is this connected to your delusions about Marxism in America as well?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 02:07:02 PM
What are you babbling about? He waited 48 hours until he had the facts and then condemned the Neo-Nazis. What is the problem? At no point has he said nazism is good, which is what you are disingenuously accusing him of, so you can get your putrid race baiting favourites voted in instead.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 09, 2020, 02:11:44 PM
https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/

Trump didn't explicitly say, "Nazis are very fine people." Of course he didn't. But the Unite the Right rally was openly, explicitly racist. It may have been inspired initially by the removal of Confederate statues, but its participants wore their hatred on their sleeves, making that the overriding theme of the event, and one of them ended up murdering an innocent woman. This should have been an easy straightforward condemnation for Trump. One side spewed hatred; the other did not. One side murdered someone; the other did not. But he couldn't do it, not without weakly blaming "both sides" and pretendng the rally participants were anything more than hateful racists.

He waited 48 hours until he had the facts and then condemned the Neo-Nazis.

It didn't take 48 hours to figure out what had happened. He eventually condemned the Nazis only because he had been relentlessly blasted for not doing so immediately.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 02:18:12 PM
What are you babbling about? He waited 48 hours until he had the facts and then condemned the Neo-Nazis. What is the problem? At no point has he said nazism is good, which is what you are disingenuously accusing him of, so you can get your putrid race baiting favourites voted in instead.

He read a speech condemning white supremacists but then after that, when speaking candidly, he said there were “many fine people on both sides”. So every time he spoke candidly he did not condemn white supremacy and only spoke words of condemnation when they were written by someone else.

But let’s be clear. I still think any attempt to imply some sort of culpability for slavery to people living in 2020 is reprehensible. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
Less than 5 mins later ... to paraphrase Biden ... why in God's name don't we tell the truth about mixed race families? They are very rare. Less than 2% of the US. The man is a sinister hypocrite.

Mixed race relationships were illegal for explicitly racist reasons until 1967 and it took a long time for them to be portrayed without controversy.  His point about that was how far we have come as a society, how much less racist we are.  If he were solely propping up woke culture, this statement would not be made.

Quote
He just accused you of original sin. You are white and therefore guilty of a crime. If someone accuses you of an original sin, they are saying that you are the enemy. There's no trial. There's no jury. The evidence is that you are white and therefore you are guilty. There's no redemption. No forgiveness. You are evil because you exist. Americans need to kick the Dems and their race baiting into touch in the election. We did that in the UK and both the lib dems and the Labour party are now being cleansed of these revolting ideas. You don't vote for a party that paints you as wicked. That's just stupid. And I don't think Americans are stupid. I think Trump's got this.

You honestly can't assess his words dispassionately.  He said that "slavery and all it's vestiges" are the original sin of the USA, not white people.  I know American's, who were in high school in the 90s, who had no idea how central slavery was to the Civil War.  The USA, in many places, does not want to confront the mistakes of history and how they may be continuing today.  Acceptance of history is extremely important to a large part of the constituents he wants to represent, and if he can address that without inflaming tribal emotions, then it's a good thing.  I am not sure he can though.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 03:06:24 PM
I believe that the messaging is completely wrong. Blacks resent whites because of the messaging. The messaging is causing the riots and racial tensions and it is the left responsible for this. They are trying to stir up trouble so that they get elected. That's despicable.

They messaging should say "You are not victims. Stop blaming everyone else for your poor life choices. You have as much opportunity as anyone else in America. If you keep believing you are victims you will forever live like victims. Powerless and dependent on great white saviours like Biden to get you free stuff. Put your begging bowls away and seize the opportunities available to you. The highest earning sport star in America last year was a black man (LeBron James). The highest paid actor last year was a black man (Dwaine Johnson). The Highest paid comedian last year was a black man (Kevin Hart). You just had a black President. The average black family in America earns $41,000 a year. Name another country where blacks earn so much ... you may include African countries. No doors are closed to you and there is no better country on earth to grow up black. But if you keep accusing everyone else of being racist, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy as the rest of America tires of your rioting and your accusations and your complaining. - Vote Thork 2020. "

Get rid of the dems for another 5 years and force them to come back with something better. 'Trump is evil' isn't any kind of endorsement that they are any better. They would be far worse.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 03:12:25 PM
I believe that the messaging is completely wrong. Blacks resent whites because of the messaging. The messaging is causing the riots and racial tensions and it is the left responsible for this. They are trying to stir up trouble so that they get elected. That's despicable.

This is mostly just your own spicy hot take, specifically attributing assumed resentment to a singular cause; you just flat out made that up.  The unrest in the USA isn't solely the work of one ideology.

Quote
They messaging should say "You are not victims. Stop blaming everyone else for your poor life choices. You have as much opportunity as anyone else in America. If you keep believing you are victims you will forever live like victims. Powerless and dependent on great white saviours like Biden to get you free stuff. Put your begging bowls away and seize the opportunities available to you. The highest earning sport star in America last year was a black man (LeBron James). The highest paid actor last year was a black man (Dwaine Johnson). The Highest paid comedian last year was a black man (Kevin Hart). You just had a black President. The average black family in America earns $41,000 a year. Name another country where blacks earn so much ... you may include African countries. No doors are closed to you and there is no better country on earth to grow up black. But if you keep accusing everyone else of being racist, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy as the rest of America tires of your rioting and your accusations and your complaining. - Vote Thork 2020. "

You would make a shitty leader.  Standing in a position of power and using it to criticize people, then thinking your actions will inspire shows just how shitty your notions of power are.

Quote
Get rid of the dems for another 5 years and force them to come back with something better. 'Trump is evil' isn't any kind of endorsement that they are any better. They would be far worse.

You just spent your last however many points talking about their ideas that have nothing to do with Trump, then make it about Trump.  You have no idea what's going on apparently.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 09, 2020, 04:03:03 PM
Thork does not understand the poverty cycle.
Or percentages.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 04:44:23 PM
Thork does not understand the poverty cycle.
Or percentages.
Sure I do. I saw a video on that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlR7dI1XvvM

I filed it in the same part of my brain as the gender wage gap and dragons.

You would make a shitty leader.  Standing in a position of power and using it to criticize people, then thinking your actions will inspire shows just how shitty your notions of power are.
It's a damn site better than telling blacks that people who aren't harming them, are harming them.

You just spent your last however many points talking about their ideas that have nothing to do with Trump, then make it about Trump.  You have no idea what's going on apparently.
Trump has been in power for 5 years. What has he done? Not said, ... done. Where is the great harm? He keeps the US ticking along. It's the dems that want to pull America down and start again. They are the ones encouraging violence. They are the ones in all the corporate pockets. The darlings of Hollywood, Google and any other massively powerful piece of shit that needs its wings clipped. You are supporting the Empire ... the Dark side. Help them Obi-Trump-Kneobi, you're their only hope.

A vote for Biden is a vote for revolution. What a stupid thing to vote for in the world's most prosperous nation.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 09, 2020, 04:54:31 PM
Trump has not even been in power for 4 years. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 05:03:25 PM
TIL that Thork thinks tax cuts for the rich isn't being in the pocket of corporations.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 09, 2020, 05:08:13 PM
Trump has been in power for 5 years.

January 2017 to Sep 2020 = 3 years and 8 months, not five years...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 06:05:25 PM
TIL that Thork thinks tax cuts for the rich isn't being in the pocket of corporations.
The rich pay the most tax. By definition any tax cut benefits the rich. Why don't you understand these very basic economic principals? You keep tripping on them. The top 20% of earners in the USA pay 95% of the tax. Of course any tax cut benefits the rich the most. They pay all the tax.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/omb-top-20-pay-95-of-taxes-middle-class-single-digits

But cutting taxes simulates the economy providing jobs and boosting pay and can actually increase tax revenue.

Have you never heard of the Laffer curve? Its economics for kids.

(https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/laffer-curve-2018.png.webp)

Trump has been in power for 5 years.

January 2017 to Sep 2020 = 3 years and 8 months, not five years...
Yeah, we have 5 year terms here in the UK and Trump has nearly done a full term. I dropped an oopsie. Please excuse my faux pas. I meant 4 years.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 06:18:56 PM
Cutting taxes only stimulates the economy if the corporation receiving the tax cut reinvests the savings. Theory is different than practice. I would think that you would understand that considering how deranged you are about socialism.

According to the congressional budget office, tax cuts to corporations caused a loss of jobs in those entities, even while jobs were increasing generally. They also found that tax cuts to the middle and lower classes were more effective at job creation than cuts to the upper class.

Guess what was more effective at driving job creation than tax cuts?

This fact drives conservatives mental: Extending unemployment benefits

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 10:11:52 PM
I would think that you would understand that considering how deranged you are about socialism.

Either you are stupid, ignorant or a psychopath. I still haven't figured it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tZ79ep4S3o&feature=emb_logo

Trust me to pick a clip where the guy has a rant about the globe at the end. FML.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 11:38:17 PM
I would think that you would understand that considering how deranged you are about socialism.

Either you are stupid, ignorant or a psychopath. I still haven't figured it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tZ79ep4S3o&feature=emb_logo

Trust me to pick a clip where the guy has a rant about the globe at the end. FML.

Oh that’s sweet. You totally didn’t understand a simple sentence. Once more. Theory is different than practice.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 10, 2020, 12:30:09 AM
How much condemning does he need to do?
(https://i0.wp.com/stonetoss.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/trump-comic-2.png) (http://stonetoss.com/comic/sure-thing/)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 10, 2020, 01:44:44 AM
(dumb alt-right comic)

It's not a question of how much disavowing he does, or how many disavowals he makes. His initial response is what was criticized, and nothing he said after the fact changed what his initial response was.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 10, 2020, 05:56:51 AM
I would think that you would understand that considering how deranged you are about socialism.

Either you are stupid, ignorant or a psychopath. I still haven't figured it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tZ79ep4S3o&feature=emb_logo

Trust me to pick a clip where the guy has a rant about the globe at the end. FML.
Its cute how you think socialism is the same as authoritarian dictators.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 06:41:16 AM
Also, if you think Biden is a Marxist, then you literally have no idea what Marxism is.

Biden is whatever the goons behind him want him to be. Also, Thork is right. The disease of collectivism must be rooted out and destroyed with extreme prejudice.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 06:56:38 AM
Also, if you think Biden is a Marxist, then you literally have no idea what Marxism is.

Biden is whatever the goons behind him want him to be. Also, Thork is right. The disease of collectivism must be rooted out and destroyed with extreme prejudice.

Society is based on some degree of collectivism, so square that circle.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 07:19:15 AM
Society is based on some degree of collectivism

Yes, and cars have four wheels. I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your usual nonsense and non-starter arguments out of this very nice thread.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 07:26:01 AM
Society is based on some degree of collectivism

Yes, and cars have four wheels. I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your usual nonsense and non-starter arguments out of this very nice thread.

Sorry you think it’s nonsense, but no I won’t go away. You throw strongman hyperbole out like that and it deserves to be challenged. Any ideology that is out of balance isn’t good. No great insight there. That includes the extremist anti-collectivism you just expressed. Maybe you just wanted to sound “strong”? You tell me. What are you talking about when you say, “The disease of collectivism must be rooted out and destroyed with extreme prejudice”. How do you destroy an idea?  Do you want to destroy the people who spread collectivist ideas? That’s what your rhetoric strongly implies.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 07:35:44 AM
Sorry you think it’s nonsense, but no I won’t go away.

And I'm sorry you apparently can't infer the specific brand of collectivism I'm referring to.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 07:39:09 AM
Sorry you think it’s nonsense, but no I won’t go away.

And I'm sorry you apparently can't infer the specific brand of collectivism I'm referring to.

Why would I let you get away with lazily communicating your desire to destroy things?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 07:55:40 AM
Sorry you think it’s nonsense, but no I won’t go away.

And I'm sorry you apparently can't infer the specific brand of collectivism I'm referring to.

Why would I let you get away with lazily communicating your desire to destroy things?

The only thing you did is show you can't follow a discussion. If you wanted to get me you should have posted something else entirely.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 08:01:58 AM
There isn’t much to get. You’re just behaving like another “hurr durr the other side is evil” reductionist.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 08:36:02 AM
Collectivism is fine when applied to people who require help in society. A great example being children. They tend to be shit at most jobs and so we don't make them work any more. This means children don't have any money and it isn't their fault they don't earn any money. They can't realistically earn money. And everyone was at some point a child. So it seems entirely reasonable that everyone should get a free socialised education as a child, and you can start putting back into the system once you are old enough and repay society's investment in you. The same could be said of healthcare and dental for children. They need it, and its not their fault if they have terrible parents who can't earn a living or are dead or whatever. No question, socialism for kids is a great idea.

But socialism for adults is abhorrent. The world does not owe you a living. You had your childhood. Now its time to grow up and stand on your own two feet. Buy health insurance. Get a job. I don't care if your gangrenous foot drops off. Its not my problem. You're an adult. Look after yourself. I don't want to look after you. Stop demanding the government steals my money to make up for your shortcomings.  >o<

Now, back to Biden and why only a pathetic sponge would vote for him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 10:54:09 AM
Yeah sorry, I don’t want anyone to live in a world where medical bankruptcy is possible.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 10, 2020, 10:57:50 AM
(dumb alt-right comic)
nazi*

It's not a question of how much disavowing he does, or how many disavowals he makes. His initial response is what was criticized, and nothing he said after the fact changed what his initial response was.
Of course, it's never the question that was expressly asked. If Trump is asked to disavow racism, and then disavows it, then obviously that's not good enough. He should have done something else, something he hasn't done.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 11:03:30 AM
You understand that when someone disavows racism but then undermines his own comments by saying many of them a fine people, it’s good grounds to think he isn’t sincere?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 10, 2020, 11:23:45 AM
You understand that when someone disavows racism but then undermines his own comments by saying many of them a fine people, it’s good grounds to think he isn’t sincere?
Yes, and if you want to argue that he's done it insincerely, I have no issue with that.

What annoys me is people repeatedly demanding that he stands on a pedestal and says "racism bad", until he eventually caves in and says exactly that. Then the narrative shifts to "okay so he did say it but we didn't actually want him to say it, not like that".

If you think the man's a racist, then demanding that he says otherwise won't change anything. You'd practically be asking him to lie, and you're pretty much guaranteed to be unhappy with any response he makes.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 11:49:10 AM
Yeah sorry, I don’t want anyone to live in a world where medical bankruptcy is possible.

And I don't want to live in world where you never exercise, smoke 20 cigarettes a day, drink 6 litres of coke and have take away meals three times a day until you eat yourself up to the weight of a small family hatchback, and then have you pass me a share of your medical bills. BUY INSURANCE, YOU FAT BASTARD!  >o<
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 11:54:05 AM
That’s just throwing the baby out with the bath water. When you see that the cost of insurance plus taxes in the US is about par with taxes in Canada, there isn’t a strong economical argument for this. Not sure what taxation is like in the UK compared to North America.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 10, 2020, 12:01:30 PM
And I don't want to live in world where you never exercise, smoke 20 cigarettes a day, drink 6 litres of coke and have take away meals three times a day until you eat yourself up to the weight of a small family hatchback, and then have you pass me a share of your medical bills.

... yet the income tax, excise duty, and VAT paid by the fat b*stard still goes to providing ambulance, hospital and similar for you should you happen to get sick or fall victim to assault, car accident or similar.

I take it you don't take out any form of insurance, then, on principle? No home or contents insurance, no motor insurance, health insurance, etc. ...?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 12:09:03 PM
But socialism for adults is abhorrent. The world does not owe you a living. You had your childhood. Now its time to grow up and stand on your own two feet. Buy health insurance. Get a job. I don't care if your gangrenous foot drops off. Its not my problem. You're an adult. Look after yourself. I don't want to look after you. Stop demanding the government steals my money to make up for your shortcomings.  >o<
Right. I agree with you to an extent, although as always you've phrased things in a particularly Thorky way.
But there is no doubt that privilege exists. Not "white privilege", but in general.
The video you posted says Bob teleported across the river, implying he didn't have to do anything. That's obviously bollox.
I had to work hard to get my degree and career which has enabled me to buy quite a nice house. It wasn't just given to me.

But, and we've had this conversation before, I recognise that I had advantages from growing up in a stable home with 2 parents and while we weren't rolling in money we were comfortably off.
Dad made some investments for me which helped with the deposit on my first place and I'm old enough that I was able to scramble on the property ladder before the bottom rung went out of reach and that enabled me to take the step up to the place I have now. Kids starting out now have no chance.

You gave some stats about how much black people earn in the US, I had a look and while you're right, that's only 2/3rds of what white people earn. Boo! Racism! Right?
Well no, because Asians in the US earn more than whites, on average. Because they have a real culture of working hard and there's lots of family pressure for them to succeed.
The issue for black people in the US is historic racism means that, on average, their starting point is lower. So while in theory the opportunities for them are the same as for anyone, in practice it's not as easy for them to climb the ladder, they have further to climb, statistically speaking.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 12:20:06 PM
So while in theory the opportunities for them are the same as for anyone, in practice it's not as easy for them to climb the ladder, they have further to climb, statistically speaking.
Well boohoo. 😭

My father abandoned my family when I was 14 and he was dead by the time I was 21. My family was not well off (my mother was an air hostess) and no fairy godmother gave me a wedge of cash. I started, by your metrics, in a far worse position than you did. But because I'm white you don't give a shit about balancing that inequality. In fact you want to take what I have earned and potentially give it to the children of wealthy black folks who couldn't be bothered to work. Giving advantages to any race is a rotten policy and it is why the dems need to die. Come back with a policy for all Americans. Not just the brown and black ones.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 12:29:57 PM
So while in theory the opportunities for them are the same as for anyone, in practice it's not as easy for them to climb the ladder, they have further to climb, statistically speaking.
Well boohoo. 😭

My father abandoned my family when I was 14 and he was dead by the time I was 21. My family was not well off (my mother was an air hostess) and no fairy godmother gave me a wedge of cash. I started, by your metrics, in a far worse position than you did. But because I'm white you don't give a shit about balancing that inequality. In fact you want to take what I have earned and potentially give it to the children of wealthy black folks who couldn't be bothered to work. Giving advantages to any race is a rotten policy and it is why the dems need to die. Come back with a policy for all Americans. Not just the brown and black ones.

Classic mistake of thinking anecdotes is the singular of data.

Back to your abhorrence of socialism, I’m wondering if you also abhor socialized law enforcement, fire department and civil legal system?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 12:39:09 PM
Back to your abhorrence of socialism, I’m wondering if you also abhor socialized law enforcement, fire department and civil legal system?

No, yes, no ... in that order. Get you own fire insurance. It should be like car insurance ... mandatory with a building.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_insurance_mark

You can also socialise the military. And that's it. Don't ask me for a penny more.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 01:24:52 PM
My father abandoned my family when I was 14 and he was dead by the time I was 21.
So? In the Covid thread you weren't interested when I started talking anecdotally about some people's experiences of getting the disease, why do you think I'd care about your anecdotes?
I'm interested in data and statistics.

Quote
I started, by your metrics, in a far worse position than you did. But because I'm white you don't give a shit about balancing that inequality. In fact you want to take what I have earned and potentially give it to the children of wealthy black folks who couldn't be bothered to work.

I literally have no idea how you got any of that from what I said. I simply think getting people from disadvantaged homes more help is a good thing.
I don't care what race they are. Statistically, any policy in the US which helps disadvantaged people would happen to help more black people.
Not because they're black but because black families tend to be poorer. And that's because of all kinds of historic racism which we can't fix now.
What we can do is try and help poorer people, no matter their race, so that their hard work is more likely to yield a good outcome.

I don't believe in positive discrimination - that is an oxymoron, discrimination is discrimination. I don't believe in "quotas". That's some racist bullshit right there.
I don't want to go for a job and not get it because the other guy is black and they have some quota to fill - I doubt he'd want that either.
Give me a job on merit, or give him it on merit depending on who is better.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 01:53:48 PM
Why do you believe that all poor people need is a little help? They are poor because they are stupid, or lazy, or drug addicts. You just told me you don't care about individual cases. Well the vast majority of the unemployed are unemployed because they choose to be ... so fuck 'em.

An intersting article finishes with the conclusion
Quote from: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-choosiness-of-the-unemployed-academic-evidence-on-voluntary-unemployment-in-the-uk/
So all of my four research projects delivered findings consistent with the view that many unemployed people prefer living on benefits to undertaking jobs which would increase their income, but which they consider unattractive. This has not emerged to anything like the same extent before in social policy empirical literature, and this, I think, is because the vast majority of authors are left-of-centre.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 02:10:39 PM
Why do you believe that all poor people need is a little help? They are poor because they are stupid, or lazy, or drug addicts.

Apparently you can be stupid and not poor.  You can also be smart and not rich.  You can also work hard and be poor.  It's astounding how myopic your view of the world is.

Quote
An intersting article finishes with the conclusion
Quote from: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-choosiness-of-the-unemployed-academic-evidence-on-voluntary-unemployment-in-the-uk/
So all of my four research projects delivered findings consistent with the view that many unemployed people prefer living on benefits to undertaking jobs which would increase their income, but which they consider unattractive. This has not emerged to anything like the same extent before in social policy empirical literature, and this, I think, is because the vast majority of authors are left-of-centre.

There is also evidence that if you provide social assistance that it's effective at reducing unemployment.  This blogger is addressing other conclusions without rebutting the data, but simply by positing an opinion about them.  Not very convincing.

No, yes, no ... in that order. Get you own fire insurance. It should be like car insurance ... mandatory with a building.

So if someone's house burns down, taking yours with it, because there is no fire department, you are cool with that?  Why are you ok with law enforcement being publicly funded?  You aren't committing crimes, so it's money from your pocket for no reason, and you clearly aren't concerned with property protection or you would be in favor of a fire department.  Just get a gun and defend yourself.  It would save you money.  Why are you in favor of a civic legal system?  Shouldn't you want the government to stay out of your business rather than having the ability to impose their beliefs and values on you?

Quote
You can also socialise the military. And that's it. Don't ask me for a penny more.

Why are you socializing the military?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
So if someone's house burns down, taking yours with it, because there is no fire department, you are cool with that?
I'm expecting them to do a 5 year stretch for not buying the mandatory fire cover and I'm insured anyway so whatever.

Why are you ok with law enforcement being publicly funded?
Because I want my stuff protected from ruffians. Everyone requires security from crime so crime prevention gets socialised. You can't have people hiring private armies. That's a recipe for mafias and warlords.

Why are you in favor of a civic legal system?
A fundamental tenant of western civilisation is that you have the right to council. This prevents people with lots of money just destroying poor people with baseless accusations in the courts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_counsel
You don't have the right to sit on your backside all day getting paid for that out of my tax contributions. I have said this in about 10 ways now. Why are you so hard of learning? Welfare is abhorrent. I don't like welfare. Most of our money goes on welfare. It's a waste. I want to stop the welfare. What has legal representation or police cover got to do with welfare?


Why are you socializing the military?
See private armies above. Also without a large national army, the vikings would come and take all our stuff again. That's why we formed England in the first place, rather than having about 25 separate kingdoms.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 02:35:07 PM
So if someone's house burns down, taking yours with it, because there is no fire department, you are cool with that?
I'm expecting them to do a 5 year stretch for not buying the mandatory fire cover and I'm insured anyway so whatever.

Putting aside that you obviously aren't considering how incredibly traumatic and disruptive having your house burn down would be, have you considered that it could kill you as well?

Quote
Why are you ok with law enforcement being publicly funded?
Because I want my stuff protected from ruffians. Everyone requires security from crime so crime prevention gets socialised. You can't have people hiring private armies. That's a recipe for mafias and warlords.

But gun ownership is apparently the solution to civil disorder.  You need to talk to the NRA.  Now, why do you want people to pay to protect your property from people, but not fires?  How about you stay consistent in your beliefs or try to explain the massive discrepancy.

Quote
A fundamental tenant of western civilisation is that you have the right to council. This prevents people with lots of money just destroying poor people with baseless accusations in the courts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_counsel
You don't have the right to sit on your backside all day getting paid for that out of my tax contributions. I have said this in about 10 ways now. Why are you so hard of learning? Welfare is abhorrent. I don't like welfare. Most of our money goes on welfare. It's a waste. I want to stop the welfare. What has legal representation or police cover got to do with welfare?

A civil court is a way of redistributing wealth for injustices decided by the government.  That is a form of socialism, which you called evil.  You have also said numerous times that you want the government to stay out of your life, but now suddenly it's fine.  You need to go rethink your rhetoric. 

Quote
See private armies above. Also without a large national army, the vikings would come and take all our stuff again. That's why we formed England in the first place, rather than having about 25 separate kingdoms.

Cool, you like some forms of collectivism.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 02:42:26 PM
Putting aside that you obviously aren't considering how incredibly traumatic and disruptive having your house burn down would be, have you considered that it could kill you as well?
That's not how it worked. Why don't you ever read the links provided to you? My fire company would just put out my neighbours fire and invoice them. That's how it worked with the uninsured.

But gun ownership is apparently the solution to civil disorder.  You need to talk to the NRA.  Now, why do you want people to pay to protect your property from people, but not fires?  How about you stay consistent in your beliefs or try to explain the massive discrepancy.
Learn how fire insurance worked.


A civil court is a way of redistributing wealth for injustices decided by the government.  That is a form of socialism, which you called evil.  You have also said numerous times that you want the government to stay out of your life, but now suddenly it's fine.  You need to go rethink your rhetoric. 
Court is not government. Court is the legal system. We need law and order ... oh wait, I'm talking to a leftist.  ::) We don't need the unemployed.

Cool, you like some forms of collectivism.
I already said that 2 pages ago. What I don't like is the welfare state.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 03:00:04 PM
Why do you believe that all poor people need is a little help? They are poor because they are stupid, or lazy, or drug addicts.
No, they aren't. Stop reading the Daily Mail and watching Benefits Street.

Yes, some people are lazy and prefer to sit on their arses. I don't think that should be encouraged. And I don't think it's as common as some people make out.

As a general principle I'd suggest everyone deserves the same opportunities in life. In practise that's never going to happen. I was never going to go to Eton and it's no coincidence that people who do tend to get further in life. They're not smarter than me, they don't work harder. They just start with a massive advantage over me.

It's impossible to completely level the playing field, but any policies which help to do that are a good thing.

And this is nothing to do with employment. You can be employed in this country and struggling. I know I just told you to stop reading the Daily Mail but it's the first article I found. Basically, people born into wealthy families tend to earn more than people who weren't:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6261249/Children-wealthy-parents-successful-gifted-kids-born-low-income-families.html
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 03:06:14 PM
That's not how it worked. Why don't you ever read the links provided to you? My fire company would just put out my neighbours fire and invoice them. That's how it worked with the uninsured.

How does a private service get to provide their service without the consent of the person receiving the services?  Sounds like a really dumb version of socialism.

Quote
Learn how fire insurance worked.

Fire insurance with a public service is different than with a private service.


Quote
Court is not government. Court is the legal system. We need law and order ... oh wait, I'm talking to a leftist.  ::) We don't need the unemployed.

Ok, think back to grade school and please tell me the three different branches of government.  (Answer below)

Legislative, executive and JUDICIAL

Quote
I already said that 2 pages ago. What I don't like is the welfare state.

Your beliefs aren't confined to this thread and I am not behaving as if they are.  What a silly thing to think.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 03:17:15 PM
Basically, people born into wealthy families tend to earn more than people who weren't:
Something liberals will never tell you. Consider one set of parents. Mother is a lawyer and the father a doctor. What are the odds they will have smart kids?
Now consider the offspring of 2 chavs on benefits. How smart will their kids be? An uncomfortable truth is that intelligence is a genetic trait.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ
Twin studies of adult individuals have found a heritability of IQ between 57% and 73%[6] with the most recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80%[7] IQ goes from being weakly correlated with genetics, for children, to being strongly correlated with genetics for late teens and adults.

Of course children of wealthy families tend to earn more ... they tend to be smarter!

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 03:27:08 PM
Of course children of wealthy families tend to earn more ... they tend to be smarter!

Literally the first paragraph of the article I pointed you at:

Quote
Rich children of average intelligence are more likely to succeed in life than brilliant people born into poor families, according to a new genetic study that focuses on the intersection of genes and economics.

Later down the same article:

Quote
Researchers found that intellectual gifts are fairly evenly distributed among the rich and poor, however eventual success is heavily weighted in favour of the rich

Hardly from the liberal lefty media, it's from the Daily fucking Mail!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 03:45:37 PM
I don't read the Daily Mail. I don't believe the crap they put in there. Do you have a scientific source like the one I linked you? One with studies?


I was also given some good advice a few years ago by a businessman. He told me ... you will likely be the average of your friends. If all your friends are drop outs and junkies, you'll be one too. If your friends are all top bankers and business leaders, guess what you will be doing for a living.

So it is of no surprise to me that an average IQ rich kid does better than a brilliant poor kid ... they will network better. But also they are much more likely to be smarter on average. The brilliant poor child is as rare as hen's teeth.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 10, 2020, 04:27:49 PM
I don't read the Daily Mail. I don't believe the crap they put in there.

Why not? All they do is lift stories from news agency websites, and repackage news from other sites, so if anything is wrong, you're blaming the messenger, not the writer.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 04:36:02 PM
So it is of no surprise to me that an average IQ rich kid does better than a brilliant poor kid ... they will network better.
Right. So that's another advantage of being rich - your will tend to mix with other rich people and that confers another advantage.
But also rich parents being able to afford tutors or private education can help average kids to perform better.

And all the Daily Mail are doing is quoting a study. You can find it yourself, if you're too lazy then that's not my problem.

Quote
But also they are much more likely to be smarter on average. The brilliant poor child is as rare as hen's teeth.
Evidence?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 04:49:29 PM
Thork values links to a blog that links to a study more than a newspaper that links to a study. Wow.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 07:27:58 PM
Yeah sorry, I don’t want anyone to live in a world where medical bankruptcy is possible.

And I don't want to live in world where you never exercise, smoke 20 cigarettes a day, drink 6 litres of coke and have take away meals three times a day until you eat yourself up to the weight of a small family hatchback, and then have you pass me a share of your medical bills. BUY INSURANCE, YOU FAT BASTARD!  >o<

In America you can walk into any given Walmart and see a bunch of fat poor people in sweatpants loading their carts with garbage. If they weren’t such idiots I’d have more sympathy for them. The culture here makes it impossible to sustain a nationwide universal healthcare system.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 08:05:23 PM
I went into a Walmart many years ago whilst on holiday because I wanted to see what real Americans looked like. You wouldn't believe how big they are in real life.  😱
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 09:20:25 PM
I went into a Walmart many years ago whilst on holiday because I wanted to see what real Americans looked like. You wouldn't believe how big they are in real life.  😱

Obesity and general cultural degeneracy have become normal here to the point that you don’t notice it on a day-to-day basis. It was only when I started watching videos of Japanese and Chinese city life that it hit me how disgusting American society has become. People here really are rude, fat, and narcissistic to a higher degree than most other developed countries. But that’s probably just the skinny privilege talking.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 09:29:07 PM
I went into a Walmart many years ago whilst on holiday because I wanted to see what real Americans looked like. You wouldn't believe how big they are in real life.  😱
Have you been to Florida?
Holy shit there are some fat people there.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 09:51:33 PM
I went into a Walmart many years ago whilst on holiday because I wanted to see what real Americans looked like. You wouldn't believe how big they are in real life.  😱
Have you been to Florida?
Holy shit there are some fat people there.

It was a Florida Walmart. And yes, they are fat as fuck in Florida. And Rama thinks sharing medical bills with these land whales is a good idea. No, harpooning them and using their blubber for lamp oil is a good idea. 🤬
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 09:53:52 PM
Maybe regular access to doctor’s would be a net benefit to public health hmm...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 09:56:42 PM
I don't give a fuck about these people.

(https://backpackerlee.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/top5americanfat.jpg?w=1200)

This guy didn't share his pies with me. I don't want to share my medical insurance contributions with him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 09:57:56 PM
I don't give a fuck about these people.

This guy didn't share his pies with me. I don't want to share my medical insurance contributions with him.

You don’t give a fuck about anyone unless they feed your ego. Say something relevant.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 11, 2020, 05:57:31 AM
I don't give a fuck about these people.

(https://backpackerlee.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/top5americanfat.jpg?w=1200)

This guy didn't share his pies with me. I don't want to share my medical insurance contributions with him.

But you would anyway.  You do know how insurance works, right?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 11, 2020, 07:58:13 AM
But you would anyway.  You do know how insurance works, right?
Yes ... premiums are based on risk. Not on how much I earn.

He's going to be paying a lot regardless of whether he is a part time cleaner or a celebrity lawyer. I'm not.


I'm guessing you don't know how insurance works because you have a long and tedious history of not knowing very much about anything. See, we can both be rude. Doesn't really further the conversation though, does it?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 11, 2020, 09:32:58 AM
But you would anyway.  You do know how insurance works, right?
Yes ... premiums are based on risk. Not on how much I earn.

He's going to be paying a lot regardless of whether he is a part time cleaner or a celebrity lawyer. I'm not.


I'm guessing you don't know how insurance works because you have a long and tedious history of not knowing very much about anything. See, we can both be rude. Doesn't really further the conversation though, does it?

No, I meant your premiums go to pay his medical bills.  You said you didn't want that but regardless, you will.  Unless you have different insurance companies, of course.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 11, 2020, 11:22:26 AM
But you would anyway.  You do know how insurance works, right?
Yes ... premiums are based on risk. Not on how much I earn.

He's going to be paying a lot regardless of whether he is a part time cleaner or a celebrity lawyer. I'm not.


I'm guessing you don't know how insurance works because you have a long and tedious history of not knowing very much about anything. See, we can both be rude. Doesn't really further the conversation though, does it?

No, I meant your premiums go to pay his medical bills.  You said you didn't want that but regardless, you will.  Unless you have different insurance companies, of course.

No, but you can google why yourself. I just stated why and it went right over your head.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 11, 2020, 11:40:01 AM
Maybe regular access to doctor’s would be a net benefit to public health hmm...
Doctors would help, I'm sure, but the real issue is food standards and lack of public awareness. All the unhealthy crap is bigger and cheaper in America, and the healthy options are pictured as weird stuff for hipsters.

Just another case of "It's expensive to be poor"
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 11, 2020, 02:56:46 PM
Maybe regular access to doctor’s would be a net benefit to public health hmm...
Doctors would help, I'm sure, but the real issue is food standards and lack of public awareness. All the unhealthy crap is bigger and cheaper in America, and the healthy options are pictured as weird stuff for hipsters.

Just another case of "It's expensive to be poor"

It's more than that. Advertising is a form of mind control and we're exposed to it fairly constantly throughout the day, in many different forms, and most of it is for stuff that's bad for us. Couple that with the fact that it really is prohibitively expensive for a lot of people in this country to truly live a healthy lifestyle (compare the healthiness of food available at a high end store like Whole Foods to that at a discount store like Sav-a-Lot, or even the prices between the healthier food vs the unhealthier food at an Acme to see my point) and it's no wonder we're a country of fat slobs. Society is to blame!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 11, 2020, 03:30:10 PM
Society is to blame!

Well that's easy. Just blame society. No one should ever take any personal responsibility. Oh, you murdered a man because you are from a broken home and have rage issues? Its fine. Society did that. Been sexually abusing your teenage daughter because you've been watching too much porn? That's society's fault. Stole a Bentley because you saw your favourite sports star driving one and you can't emulate your hero without one? Its OK. Society created that envy inside you.

Oh, and you are 300lbs and ate 2 cheesecakes for breakfast before your insulin shot? No worries buddy. Its not your fault. Its society!

No ... if you are fat ... you are to blame.

You're not big boned. No anthropologist ever dug up a skeleton and said "Look at the size of the bones on him."
Its not your glands. I only need to look at images from the 1950s to see how rare obesity was.
Its not genetics. Your great great grandparents weren't fat.
And its not corporations. I eat on the same planet as you do.

You are fat because you are greedy and lazy. Its always those two things. A person needs to be both. Greedy and lazy.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 11, 2020, 05:24:05 PM
It's more than that. Advertising [...]
I agree completely - you've identified the cause behind the "lack of public awareness" I hinted at. I just didn't want to go into as much detail.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 11, 2020, 08:40:41 PM
Society is to blame!

Well that's easy. Just blame society. No one should ever take any personal responsibility. Oh, you murdered a man because you are from a broken home and have rage issues? Its fine. Society did that. Been sexually abusing your teenage daughter because you've been watching too much porn? That's society's fault. Stole a Bentley because you saw your favourite sports star driving one and you can't emulate your hero without one? Its OK. Society created that envy inside you.

Oh, and you are 300lbs and ate 2 cheesecakes for breakfast before your insulin shot? No worries buddy. Its not your fault. Its society!

No ... if you are fat ... you are to blame.

You're not big boned. No anthropologist ever dug up a skeleton and said "Look at the size of the bones on him."
Its not your glands. I only need to look at images from the 1950s to see how rare obesity was.
Its not genetics. Your great great grandparents weren't fat.
And its not corporations. I eat on the same planet as you do.

You are fat because you are greedy and lazy. Its always those two things. A person needs to be both. Greedy and lazy.

No one is surprised you didn't really address the substance of what was said, just the tag at the end that was there for lulz.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 12, 2020, 05:24:08 PM
At least he would be if the election were held today.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/politics/donald-trump-swing-state-polls-new-york-times-siena/index.html

By a landslide I tell you:

https://news.yahoo.com/yahoo-news-yougov-poll-trump-233720272.html
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 12, 2020, 05:40:08 PM
Those same outlets were claiming that Hillary had an overwhelming lead on Trump up to the day of the election. Hardly credible.

Also from Yahoo and CNN:

Yahoo Aug 4 - ELECTORAL MAP: Hillary Clinton is on track for a blowout win in November (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electoral-map-hillary-clinton-track-153640976.html)

Yahoo Oct 18 - Poll: Hillary Clinton Will Win Election (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/poll-hillary-clinton-win-election-162327502.html)

CNN Nov 1 - Key model predicts big election win for Clinton (https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/01/news/economy/hillary-clinton-win-forecast-moodys-analytics/)

"this model has correctly predicted the results of every election since 1980"

lol
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 12, 2020, 05:45:16 PM
Those same outlets were claiming that Hillary had an overwhelming lead on Trump up to the day of the election. Hardly credible.

Also from Yahoo:

Yahoo - ELECTORAL MAP: Hillary Clinton is on track for a blowout win in November (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electoral-map-hillary-clinton-track-153640976.html)

Yahoo - Poll: Hillary Clinton Will Win Election (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/poll-hillary-clinton-win-election-162327502.html)

CNN - Key model predicts big election win for Clinton (https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/01/news/economy/hillary-clinton-win-forecast-moodys-analytics/)

"this model has predicted the results of every election since 1988"

lol

They got the popular vote right. Hard to predict the fuckery that is GOP gerrymandering combined with the electoral college.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 12, 2020, 07:16:09 PM
Those same outlets were claiming that Hillary had an overwhelming lead on Trump up to the day of the election. Hardly credible.

Also from Yahoo and CNN:

Yahoo Aug 4 - ELECTORAL MAP: Hillary Clinton is on track for a blowout win in November (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electoral-map-hillary-clinton-track-153640976.html)

Yahoo Oct 18 - Poll: Hillary Clinton Will Win Election (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/poll-hillary-clinton-win-election-162327502.html)

CNN Nov 1 - Key model predicts big election win for Clinton (https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/01/news/economy/hillary-clinton-win-forecast-moodys-analytics/)

"this model has correctly predicted the results of every election since 1980"

lol

You know Tom... Trump did say the Election was rigged..... Maybe he was right?  It was rigged to get him to win.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 16, 2020, 12:44:12 AM
Joe Biden gave some good advice once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HHqcr43qr0&ab_channel=KCCI
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 16, 2020, 10:05:03 AM
Fox News reckon that ABC "ambushed" Trump by including regular American voters in the audience for his "town hall" ....

Gee, how unfair. Having to answer questions from real people.

"Herd Mentality". Huh.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 16, 2020, 10:17:38 AM
It was a townhall for undecided voters... None of them were anyone’s voters.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 16, 2020, 10:47:43 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 17, 2020, 04:28:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Everything you just wrote makes no sense in context of the article.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 17, 2020, 06:53:17 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Everything you just wrote makes no sense in context of the article.

Yeah, reading comprehension is hard. Tell me which bits you are struggling with and I will hold your hand through it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 17, 2020, 09:26:19 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Everything you just wrote makes no sense in context of the article.

Yeah, reading comprehension is hard. Tell me which bits you are struggling with and I will hold your hand through it.
The article was about Biden, not Pelosi.  Pelosi is the speaker of the house.  She has little impact on foreign policy.  Her death would do nothing.

Also, y'all wanted trade deals with America so if you want us to leave the UK alone, then enjoy having no trade deals.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 17, 2020, 09:37:27 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Everything you just wrote makes no sense in context of the article.

Yeah, reading comprehension is hard. Tell me which bits you are struggling with and I will hold your hand through it.
The article was about Biden, not Pelosi.  Pelosi is the speaker of the house.  She has little impact on foreign policy.  Her death would do nothing.

Also, y'all wanted trade deals with America so if you want us to leave the UK alone, then enjoy having no trade deals.

Why don't you read the article rather than just the headline?

Quote from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571
But US Speaker Nancy Pelosi said there was "no chance" of a UK-US trade deal getting through the US Congress if the UK violated international agreements, undermining the Good Friday Agreement.

This is a bit rich coming from the US who have gone back on the Paris Climate agreement, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the UN human rights council, UNESCO, and are threatening to pull out of the WTO, NATO and the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty. But oh no, if Britain pull out of a bad deal with the EU, there will be hell to pay. 🙄

Get bent, America. 😤
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 17, 2020, 09:41:09 AM
What a fantastic trade deal partner our overlords chose for us, eh, Thork? Are you missing the Bruxellois elite yet?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 17, 2020, 09:52:55 AM
Are you sober now? Yesterday you were hanging around AR with piss stained pants shouting at the pigeons.

It shows in the UK, we need a Trump win. Voting Democrat will irreparably harm the special relationship. The Democrats aren't interested in fostering good relations. They are just out to pick up woke points off black people and lesbians. It's a different kind of politics and we'll find ourselves diverging in policy more and more if the dems get in. But with Trump, we're actually pretty aligned right now. We want the same things. More jobs, better manufacturing, less China and less war. We also both want to nail the EU's scrotum to the floor so they can't swing their bollocks about on the world stage.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 17, 2020, 10:11:43 AM
Are you sober now? Yesterday you were hanging around AR with piss stained pants shouting at the pigeons.
Thork, I'm going to ask you one last time: keep the personal attacks out of the upper.

It shows in the UK, we need a Trump win.
What a dire set of circumstances.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 17, 2020, 01:48:15 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Everything you just wrote makes no sense in context of the article.

Yeah, reading comprehension is hard. Tell me which bits you are struggling with and I will hold your hand through it.
The article was about Biden, not Pelosi.  Pelosi is the speaker of the house.  She has little impact on foreign policy.  Her death would do nothing.

Also, y'all wanted trade deals with America so if you want us to leave the UK alone, then enjoy having no trade deals.

Why don't you read the article rather than just the headline?

Quote from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571
But US Speaker Nancy Pelosi said there was "no chance" of a UK-US trade deal getting through the US Congress if the UK violated international agreements, undermining the Good Friday Agreement.

This is a bit rich coming from the US who have gone back on the Paris Climate agreement, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the UN human rights council, UNESCO, and are threatening to pull out of the WTO, NATO and the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty. But oh no, if Britain pull out of a bad deal with the EU, there will be hell to pay. 🙄

Get bent, America. 😤

You do know that Trump pulled out of all those, not Congress.  Right?  No congressional approval was required.  Pelosi could do nothing.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 17, 2020, 01:49:11 PM
Are you sober now? Yesterday you were hanging around AR with piss stained pants shouting at the pigeons.

It shows in the UK, we need a Trump win. Voting Democrat will irreparably harm the special relationship. The Democrats aren't interested in fostering good relations. They are just out to pick up woke points off black people and lesbians. It's a different kind of politics and we'll find ourselves diverging in policy more and more if the dems get in. But with Trump, we're actually pretty aligned right now. We want the same things. More jobs, better manufacturing, less China and less war. We also both want to nail the EU's scrotum to the floor so they can't swing their bollocks about on the world stage.

They are interested in good relations with good partners.  The UK is on the downturn and is showing that it won't concern itself with treaties they make if they find them to be inconvenient.  You don't need a Trump win, you need BJ to hit the road; he has made things worse than May.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 23, 2020, 08:21:49 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 23, 2020, 09:07:03 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.

You mean not even Trump's party could find anything?  Oh man, all those 'experts' must be so disappointed.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 23, 2020, 10:59:30 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.

Wow what a surprise
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 24, 2020, 04:32:32 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.

Wow what a surprise
Kind of is a surprise. When your idiot son gets $millions for being on the board of an oil and gas company and by his own admission knows nothing about oil and gas but your father is Vice-President of the USA ... yeah, that is a surprise there is no conclusive proof. I might also say conclusive proof might be a high bar to leap. It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 24, 2020, 04:34:11 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.

Wow what a surprise
Kind of is a surprise. When your idiot son gets $millions for being on the board of an oil and gas company and by his own admission knows nothing about oil and gas but your father is Vice-President of the USA ... yeah, that is a surprise there is no conclusive proof. I might also say conclusive proof might be a high bar to leap. It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.

Thork has princials.  He only takes jobs he's qualified for, no matter the pay or offer.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 24, 2020, 04:35:58 PM
My father didn't threaten another nation and try to blackmail them in order to get me a job in a chocolate factory.

Also, you are looking for your next President. Why the hell aren't you concerned with principles?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 24, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Quote
It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.

I’m not defending Trump. This thread is about Biden.

If there was even the smallest sign of impropriety, you can be sure the GOP would have cried bloody murder.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 24, 2020, 05:01:24 PM
Quote
It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.

I’m not defending Trump. This thread is about Biden.

If there was even the smallest sign of impropriety, you can be sure the GOP would have cried bloody murder.

Pretty sure the GOP aren't the party that cry bloody murder every two minutes.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 24, 2020, 05:05:24 PM
Quote
It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.

I’m not defending Trump. This thread is about Biden.

If there was even the smallest sign of impropriety, you can be sure the GOP would have cried bloody murder.

Pretty sure the GOP aren't the party that cry bloody murder every two minutes.

That’s because you don’t pay attention to US politics at all. Both sides bicker incessantly, regardless of the merits of their grievance.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 24, 2020, 05:07:27 PM
When your idiot son gets $millions for being on the board of an oil and gas company and by his own admission knows nothing about oil and gas but your father is Vice-President of the USA ...

When the President of the same USA brings his adult daughter, with no political expertise or experience in public office, into the Whitehouse as an "advisor" ...

(https://i.imgur.com/S12n7co.jpg)

Honestly, virtually EVERY criticism or accusation that I see or hear made by Trumpers or Republicans toward Biden or Dems is something that some Trumper or Republican is already guilty of doing.

Trump says Biden is in cognitive decline, but can barely string sentences together.
Trump wants Biden to take a drug test, but is seen blowing bits of pills out from nose and mouth at a rally.
Trump says there will be unrest in the streets if Biden is elected, but there's ALREADY unrest under his watch.
etc
etc 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 24, 2020, 05:26:21 PM
Tom.

Tom.

I saw.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 24, 2020, 05:38:56 PM
My father didn't threaten another nation and try to blackmail them in order to get me a job in a chocolate factory.

Also, you are looking for your next President. Why the hell aren't you concerned with principles?

For a Trump fan to complain about principles is laughable. Trump is easily the most unscrupulous, unprincipled, and shameless president we've had since at least Andrew Jackson. He's cheated on his wives numerous times, bragged about supposedly stealing other men's girlfriends, has a long history of making lewd, demeaning, and racist remarks, regularly stiffed local contractors for the money he owed them, and bankrupted his businesses so that he could personally profit at the expense of everyone else multiple times. He pointedly refused to divest himself from his businesses so that he could continue making money off of them at taxpayer expense, and has also refused to release his tax returns so that we could see how much money he's making and from whom it's coming.

There's no doubt that Hunter Biden is an unqualified fuckwit who was hired for his name. But there's no evidence that Joe Biden encouraged or asked for his hiring, and to tie it into America's demands that Viktor Shokin be fired doesn't make any sense. The concern with Shokin was that he was stonewalling or dragging out his investigations into corruption, including the one into Burisma. If Biden was trying to protect his son, and by extension Burisma, then why would he be demanding the removal of someone who had also protected Burisma? The narrative falls apart. Shokin only started claiming that he actually totally was investigating Burisma and that's why Biden wanted him out in 2019, when he recognized that he had an ally in the Trump administration. He's obviously lying, and I'd feel comfortable making that assessment even if we didn't have plenty of documentary evidence and witness testimony (which we do) making it clear that, no, he wasn't investigating Burisma vigilantly. In any case, this is all concerning activities that took place from 2010-2012. Hunter didn't join Burisma until 2014, so he couldn't possibly have been implicated in anything Shokin was or wasn't investigating.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 24, 2020, 05:57:55 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.

Wow what a surprise
Kind of is a surprise. When your idiot son gets $millions for being on the board of an oil and gas company and by his own admission knows nothing about oil and gas but your father is Vice-President of the USA ... yeah, that is a surprise there is no conclusive proof. I might also say conclusive proof might be a high bar to leap. It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.

Not really though. Cronyism is perfectly legal in American politics, and (probably detrimentally, I'll admit) practiced with vigour on both sides. Blackmail is a way different story. Obviously the GOP could find no evidence that anything improper was done (and you can be sure, they tried), and whatever you think of Hunter Biden's qualifications for the job, there was never any reason to assume anything improper was done, apart from baseless conspiracy theories intended to smear Biden's name.

So yeah, no surprises, unless you're one of those morons who takes Trump and the political pundits working for him seriously (lol).

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 24, 2020, 06:31:33 PM
So why did Burisma Holdings hire Hunter Biden, please?

Please give me your reason for this occurrence and why this Ukrainian company gave away $millions to this particular individual in exchange for zero expertise, experience or labour.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 24, 2020, 06:45:05 PM
So why did Burisma Holdings hire Hunter Biden, please?

Please give me your reason for this occurrence and why this Ukrainian company gave away $millions to this particular individual in exchange for zero expertise, experience or labour.
Business culture.  By aiming the son of the US VP was on their board, they appear both more legitimate and far reaching.  Which, for other Ukrainian business, that sounds like you're amazing and really have your shit together.  It was like taking a $30 shoe, giving it to a basketball player to wear, and selling it for $150 because "Famous basketball player wears our shoes so they must be good."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 24, 2020, 06:55:39 PM
Business culture.  By aiming the son of the US VP was on their board, they appear both more legitimate and far reaching.  Which, for other Ukrainian business, that sounds like you're amazing and really have your shit together.  It was like taking a $30 shoe, giving it to a basketball player to wear, and selling it for $150 because "Famous basketball player wears our shoes so they must be good."

You think Hunter Biden has celebrity cache like Michael Jordan and that people will buy more Ukrainian gas because ... 'Hunter Biden'?

Gas is a global commodity. It isn't like a pair of shoes. It trades on the global markets and has a set price. You don't get more for your gas because 'Hunter Biden!'.

I fail to see how the inexperienced addition of the son of a US politician adds to your legitimacy nor do I see how your global company becomes more far reaching when people whisper in hushed tones 'Hunter Biden'.

If I was a Ukrainian Oligarch and my company was being investigated by the UK serious fraud office and all my assets were frozen ... What I'd be hoping is that by hiring the son of the US vice president, that VP might feel he owes me a favour and puts pressure on other nations and so they unfreeze my assets and the case mysteriously collapses. Which by complete coincidence is exactly what happened.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 24, 2020, 07:56:38 PM
So why did Burisma Holdings hire Hunter Biden, please?

Please give me your reason for this occurrence and why this Ukrainian company gave away $millions to this particular individual in exchange for zero expertise, experience or labour.

It really doesn't matter. Political reasons, obviously. The salient point is that it wasn't blackmail and the Republicans could find no evidence of wrongdoing.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 24, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
Business culture.  By aiming the son of the US VP was on their board, they appear both more legitimate and far reaching.  Which, for other Ukrainian business, that sounds like you're amazing and really have your shit together.  It was like taking a $30 shoe, giving it to a basketball player to wear, and selling it for $150 because "Famous basketball player wears our shoes so they must be good."

You think Hunter Biden has celebrity cache like Michael Jordan and that people will buy more Ukrainian gas because ... 'Hunter Biden'?

Gas is a global commodity. It isn't like a pair of shoes. It trades on the global markets and has a set price. You don't get more for your gas because 'Hunter Biden!'.

I fail to see how the inexperienced addition of the son of a US politician adds to your legitimacy nor do I see how your global company becomes more far reaching when people whisper in hushed tones 'Hunter Biden'.

If I was a Ukrainian Oligarch and my company was being investigated by the UK serious fraud office and all my assets were frozen ... What I'd be hoping is that by hiring the son of the US vice president, that VP might feel he owes me a favour and puts pressure on other nations and so they unfreeze my assets and the case mysteriously collapses. Which by complete coincidence is exactly what happened.
Clearly you don't understand business.

Name Dropping Biden is a big fucking deal.  Not because Hunter Biden is some kind of golden child of skill, but because he's got connections.  (or so you would think) 

And, reading further, apparently it was just that.  Not for business, of course, but to make the international community think they were super legit.  Not sure how the US VP managed to get a UK judge to rule a case was conjecture but... Ok.  I guess UK judges are super easy to manipulate.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 24, 2020, 08:21:07 PM
So why did Burisma Holdings hire Hunter Biden, please?

Please give me your reason for this occurrence and why this Ukrainian company gave away $millions to this particular individual in exchange for zero expertise, experience or labour.

Why does it matter?

Why should this be of any concern to an American who has lost family or friend, along with around 200,000 others, to COVID-19, when the President and his administration are doing practically b*gger-all to prevent its spread, with the President's son-in-law showing specific lack of skill and expertise in the field?

Why is this of any concern, when the President is aiming to subvert the basics of democracy, install a cultish religious fanatic on the highest court in the land, and shows overt racism and misogyny at every turn?

Hunter Biden is an irrelevance compared to this. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 25, 2020, 03:46:27 PM
When your idiot son gets $millions for being on the board of an oil and gas company and by his own admission knows nothing about oil and gas but your father is Vice-President of the USA ...

So the Republicans investigated Hunter, and ended up implicating one of their own.

https://www.salon.com/2020/09/24/democrats-alert-inspector-general-that-gops-biden-probe-directly-implicated-perry-in-corruption/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 25, 2020, 05:46:44 PM
https://youtu.be/k57TvPwtA0c
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 25, 2020, 06:00:48 PM
Can you please stop just posting videos without any sort of comment? There is an entire thread started for political mending if that makes you feel good.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 25, 2020, 06:03:59 PM
Tom's not wrong.  Liberalism is what helped Found America.  So naturally the founding fathers were batshit crazy.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 25, 2020, 08:50:19 PM
Tom, did you steal that from Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity? They both like to represent that the craziest fringes are representative of all liberals too.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 25, 2020, 08:53:02 PM
Can you please stop just posting video without any sort of comment?
I'd like to echo Rama's sentiment with my mod hat on. There's nothing wrong with sharing videos to support or enrich a point, but posting videos with no context or original discussion has always been frowned upon around here.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on October 12, 2020, 12:24:06 AM
#walkaway is picking up a lot of momentum.


I'll just leave this here. Maybe someone like Lord Dave or Roundy will come to their senses. Or maybe they will continue to support Beelzebub. Whatever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flp7gKg5G4E
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on October 12, 2020, 12:49:29 AM
#walkaway is an astroturfing campaign mainly fueled by dyed-in-the-wool conservatives rather than actual disaffected Democrats.

https://arcdigital.media/pro-trump-russian-linked-twitter-accounts-are-posing-as-ex-democrats-in-new-astroturfed-movement-20359c1906d3

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/07/02/the-walkaway-meme-is-what-happens-when-everything-is-viral-and-nothing-matters/

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/opinions/russian-bots-2018-midterm-elections-opinion-love/index.html

Admittedly, these articles are from 2018, but I doubt that the movement has suddenly turned genuine in the two years since. People can and do change their political views, but there's no real exodus of former liberals driven from the modern Democratic Party by the radicalism of its leaders.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 12, 2020, 03:54:16 AM
#walkaway is picking up a lot of momentum.


I'll just leave this here. Maybe someone like Lord Dave or Roundy will come to their senses. Or maybe they will continue to support Beelzebub. Whatever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flp7gKg5G4E

Fun fact:
I'm not a Democrat.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 12, 2020, 04:54:06 AM
#walkaway is picking up a lot of momentum.


I'll just leave this here. Maybe someone like Lord Dave or Roundy will come to their senses. Or maybe they will continue to support Beelzebub. Whatever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flp7gKg5G4E

Who is Georgia and why do we care what she has to say in a 40 minute video? And how are you gauging that this walkaway movement is "picking up a lot of momentum"? It's been kicking around since the 2018 midterms - Apparently had zero impact back then as evidenced by how the midterms turned out. Seems almost irrelevant.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 12, 2020, 11:44:15 AM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 12, 2020, 07:03:00 PM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?

Biden verbatim said he wants to take away guns, so regardless of what individual Democrats believe, the key candidate representing the party wants to take away guns. I'd say that's a pretty alarming sentiment that isn't properly met with "but muh both sides".
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 12, 2020, 07:41:15 PM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?

Biden verbatim said he wants to take away guns, so regardless of what individual Democrats believe, the key candidate representing the party wants to take away guns. I'd say that's a pretty alarming sentiment that isn't properly met with "but muh both sides".
Well, police take away guns all the time.  The question is: does he want to take away ALL guns from everyone, some guns from everyone, all guns from some people?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 12, 2020, 08:29:17 PM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?

Biden verbatim said he wants to take away guns, so regardless of what individual Democrats believe, the key candidate representing the party wants to take away guns. I'd say that's a pretty alarming sentiment that isn't properly met with "but muh both sides".

No, he didn't say that, per se...

Facts First: Biden's gun control plan does not include confiscating legally owned weapons and an interpretation of a "viral video" is a mishearing of what was said. The former vice president has said in the past that a Biden administration would come for people's "assault weapons."
Biden's gun control plan outlines a buyback program for "assault weapons and high-capacity magazines," but the program is not a mandatory buyback and would not force people to give their up their guns.
According to Biden's website, the buyback program "will give individuals who now possess assault weapons or high-capacity magazines two options: sell the weapons to the government, or register them under the National Firearms Act."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/politics/fact-check-joe-biden-gun-control/index.html

Here's more detail:
https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 03:23:48 AM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?

Biden verbatim said he wants to take away guns, so regardless of what individual Democrats believe, the key candidate representing the party wants to take away guns. I'd say that's a pretty alarming sentiment that isn't properly met with "but muh both sides".

No, he didn't say that, per se...

Facts First: Biden's gun control plan does not include confiscating legally owned weapons and an interpretation of a "viral video" is a mishearing of what was said. The former vice president has said in the past that a Biden administration would come for people's "assault weapons."
Biden's gun control plan outlines a buyback program for "assault weapons and high-capacity magazines," but the program is not a mandatory buyback and would not force people to give their up their guns.
According to Biden's website, the buyback program "will give individuals who now possess assault weapons or high-capacity magazines two options: sell the weapons to the government, or register them under the National Firearms Act."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/politics/fact-check-joe-biden-gun-control/index.html

Here's more detail:
https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/

From the same article:

Quote
But in August 2019, during an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper, Biden was asked about people who think a Biden administration "means they're going to come for my guns." Biden replied, "Bingo, you're right if you have an assault weapon. The fact of the matter is they should be illegal. Period."

Right, so lets look up what an "assault weapon" is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

"Drawing from federal and state law definitions, the term assault weapon refers primarily to semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns that are able to accept detachable magazines and possess one or more other features."

Ah, so Joe Biden wants to make nearly every gun in the country illegal and he wants to seize them. So let's take another look at:

Quote
Biden's gun control plan does not include confiscating legally owned weapons

Okay, but Joe wants to make them illegal, hence confiscation of illegal weapons. These silly word games where they say "well I won't take your legal firearms" but also "by the way, I want to make all of your legal firearms illegal" are so tiresome. Joe has a long history of anti-gun propaganda. Suddenly changing his website to be full of weasel words during an election doesn't make me feel like he's changed his mind.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 16, 2020, 04:18:24 AM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?

Biden verbatim said he wants to take away guns, so regardless of what individual Democrats believe, the key candidate representing the party wants to take away guns. I'd say that's a pretty alarming sentiment that isn't properly met with "but muh both sides".

No, he didn't say that, per se...

Facts First: Biden's gun control plan does not include confiscating legally owned weapons and an interpretation of a "viral video" is a mishearing of what was said. The former vice president has said in the past that a Biden administration would come for people's "assault weapons."
Biden's gun control plan outlines a buyback program for "assault weapons and high-capacity magazines," but the program is not a mandatory buyback and would not force people to give their up their guns.
According to Biden's website, the buyback program "will give individuals who now possess assault weapons or high-capacity magazines two options: sell the weapons to the government, or register them under the National Firearms Act."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/politics/fact-check-joe-biden-gun-control/index.html

Here's more detail:
https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/

From the same article:

Quote
But in August 2019, during an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper, Biden was asked about people who think a Biden administration "means they're going to come for my guns." Biden replied, "Bingo, you're right if you have an assault weapon. The fact of the matter is they should be illegal. Period."

Right, so lets look up what an "assault weapon" is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

"Drawing from federal and state law definitions, the term assault weapon refers primarily to semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns that are able to accept detachable magazines and possess one or more other features."

Ah, so Joe Biden wants to make nearly every gun in the country illegal and he wants to seize them. So let's take another look at:

Quote
Biden's gun control plan does not include confiscating legally owned weapons

Okay, but Joe wants to make them illegal, hence confiscation of illegal weapons. These silly word games where they say "well I won't take your legal firearms" but also "by the way, I want to make all of your legal firearms illegal" are so tiresome. Joe has a long history of anti-gun propaganda. Suddenly changing his website to be full of weasel words during an election doesn't make me feel like he's changed his mind.

I get where you're coming from. But I also wouldn't worry about. Every Dem has been gunning for guns for as long as I've been alive. The NRA is more powerful than any government it seems. You may get hit with a large mag, bump stock, maybe even "assault rifle" ban, but doubtful. The 2nd amendment is even stronger with the new SCOTUS. Biden won't be able to do anything about it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 01:02:53 PM
I get where you're coming from. But I also wouldn't worry about. Every Dem has been gunning for guns for as long as I've been alive. The NRA is more powerful than any government it seems. You may get hit with a large mag, bump stock, maybe even "assault rifle" ban, but doubtful. The 2nd amendment is even stronger with the new SCOTUS. Biden won't be able to do anything about it.

Assault rifles are already banned in the US. Democrats want to ban "assault weapons" which is their entirely self-created term that means "any gun we don't like". Also, Biden is refusing to say he won't pack the SCOTUS just to get his way. We already have numerous gun bans across Democratic states such as California and New York. It's entirely evident that Democrats want to ban weapons, there's just this pesky 2nd amendment that keeps getting in the way. Saying Biden isn't coming for guns is entirely incorrect, as I previously stated. You've already gone from "well that's wrong" to "well, he wants to, but he can't". Biden is scared to hammer on his anti-gun nature outright because he knows it would make his poll numbers nosedive. Anti-gun sentiment is still a very fringe factor in the US.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 01:06:07 PM
Assault rifles are already banned in the US. Democrats want to ban "assault weapons" which is their entirely self-created term that means "any gun we don't like". Also, Biden is refusing to say he won't pack the SCOTUS just to get his way.

Surely you don't have a problem with politicians vying to get the justices they want on SCOTUS to further their agenda?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
Assault rifles are already banned in the US. Democrats want to ban "assault weapons" which is their entirely self-created term that means "any gun we don't like". Also, Biden is refusing to say he won't pack the SCOTUS just to get his way.

Surely you don't have a problem with politicians vying to get the justices they want on SCOTUS to further their agenda?

It's an entirely legal process and he is free to pack the court if he has the political control to do so. In the sense that I would not want him to do it, then yes, I have a problem with it, but he is legally allowed to do it. However, taking away guns is a different matter. Weapon ownership is a human right and no legal process exists to prevent it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 01:12:57 PM
Constitutional amendments are the legal process. Reasonable restrictions on rights often illuminated by the judiciary are a way to constrain rights. So there are ways legal
ways to impose policy positions on gun ownership.

That being said, I seriously doubt your guns will be taken away, but it’s not unreasonable to attribute that position to him. Guns are sadly too ingrained in your culture.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 01:17:12 PM
Constitutional amendments are the legal process. Reasonable restrictions on rights often illuminated by the judiciary are a way to constrain rights. So there are ways legal
ways to impose policy positions on gun ownership.

That being said, I seriously doubt your guns will be taken away, but it’s not unreasonable to attribute that position to him. Guns are sadly too ingrained in your culture.

Constitutional amendments do not determine human rights. If a constitutional amendment made it illegal to be X religion, to be X race, or to own a home or business, it would also be rightfully ignored. If this were the case in your country, you would (hopefully) ignore such laws as well.

That said, your overall point is correct. Biden does not have the personal or political power to actually take away guns, but he does have the desire to do so.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 01:42:37 PM
Constitutional amendments are the legal process. Reasonable restrictions on rights often illuminated by the judiciary are a way to constrain rights. So there are ways legal
ways to impose policy positions on gun ownership.

That being said, I seriously doubt your guns will be taken away, but it’s not unreasonable to attribute that position to him. Guns are sadly too ingrained in your culture.

Constitutional amendments do not determine human rights. If a constitutional amendment made it illegal to be X religion, to be X race, or to own a home or business, it would also be rightfully ignored. If this were the case in your country, you would (hopefully) ignore such laws as well.

That said, your overall point is correct. Biden does not have the personal or political power to actually take away guns, but he does have the desire to do so.

Where is gun ownership described as a fundamental human right? I haven’t seen it described that way and there is no prohibition against it being repealed. The international community certainly doesn’t uphold gun ownership as fundamental.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on October 16, 2020, 03:21:03 PM
So gun ownership is a fundamental human right but healthcare isn't, ok
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 16, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Assault rifles are already banned in the US. Democrats want to ban "assault weapons" which is their entirely self-created term that means "any gun we don't like". Also, Biden is refusing to say he won't pack the SCOTUS just to get his way.

Surely you don't have a problem with politicians vying to get the justices they want on SCOTUS to further their agenda?
Weapon ownership is a human right and no legal process exists to prevent it.

It is not a human right.  Its a US right, but not a human one.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 04:09:38 PM
Where is gun ownership described as a fundamental human right? I haven’t seen it described that way and there is no prohibition against it being repealed. The international community certainly doesn’t uphold gun ownership as fundamental.

Everywhere.

So gun ownership is a fundamental human right but healthcare isn't, ok

One requires that you take other people's money to pay for something, the other does not. You're not entitled to other people's products or labor. A doctor doesn't have to care for you. A nurse doesn't have to tend to you. It's impossible for healthcare to be a human right.

It is not a human right.  Its a US right, but not a human one.

Incorrect.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on October 16, 2020, 04:17:31 PM
Where is gun ownership described as a fundamental human right? I haven’t seen it described that way and there is no prohibition against it being repealed. The international community certainly doesn’t uphold gun ownership as fundamental.

Everywhere.

So gun ownership is a fundamental human right but healthcare isn't, ok

One requires that you take other people's money to pay for something, the other does not. You're not entitled to other people's products or labor. A doctor doesn't have to care for you. A nurse doesn't have to tend to you. It's impossible for healthcare to be a human right.

It is not a human right.  Its a US right, but not a human one.

Incorrect.

You're just using arguments that fit your opinion, you haven't logically supported that gun ownership is a fundamental human right.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 04:18:12 PM
Where is gun ownership described as a fundamental human right? I haven’t seen it described that way and there is no prohibition against it being repealed. The international community certainly doesn’t uphold gun ownership as fundamental.

Everywhere.

Can you give me one source from the US government that says so?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 16, 2020, 05:26:13 PM
Well Rushy, I have here the UN human rights declaration.

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

So kindly tell us which version of human rights you are using as I know its not this one.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 07:55:20 PM
You're just using arguments that fit your opinion

Well, yes, that's the fundamental basis for all arguments.

you haven't logically supported that gun ownership is a fundamental human right.

There's no such thing as logical support of a right. For example, saying "human beings have a right to live" is just an opinion. You can approach an opinion logically but ultimately it's still just an opinion.

Can you give me one source from the US government that says so?

Governments do not determine human rights.

Well Rushy, I have here the UN human rights declaration.

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

So kindly tell us which version of human rights you are using as I know its not this one.

If the UN said "Asians do not have the right to live", would you think "well, it's the UN, so I must agree"? If not, then obviously the UN isn't actually the source of human rights and your point is nonsense.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 16, 2020, 09:11:03 PM
Ahhh, I figured you were using your own personal definition.

Welp, nothing to argue then. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: garygreen on October 16, 2020, 09:21:46 PM
One requires that you take other people's money to pay for something, the other does not. You're not entitled to other people's products or labor. A doctor doesn't have to care for you. A nurse doesn't have to tend to you. It's impossible for healthcare to be a human right.

my dude, private insurance already works on exactly the same principle. your insurer doesn't set your dollars aside for you in case you need them later. they spend the money you give them on other people's healthcare. that's just how any kind of group insurance works. you're paying for it to be available to you when you need it.

i do not understand this quixotic quest to preserve the "freedom" to not spend money on healthcare. that's not a genuine freedom. i don't think i've ever met a single human who wants to make that choice. and that's because it isn't really a free and un-coerced choice. everyone wants to not be sick and debilitated. being sick and debilitated are anathema to freedom.

put another way: "i have to pay these taxes because i don't want to lose freedom by going to jail" is qualitatively identical to "i have to pay my private insurance bill because i don't want to lose freedom by getting sick and not having any healthcare." they're both coerced choices.

the only real consideration is — how do we min-max cost and access to a service that literally everyone requires? right now we have a system of private firms that minimize access and maximize costs for the purpose of extracting profit from the coerced choice to purchase health insurance. how about instead we have a system that operates on literally precisely the same principle as private insurance, but actually provides a service.

tbh if the choice were between single-payer and private insurance with the same access to healthcare, then i'd probably be more sympathetic to your view. i dunno about you, but my plan is currently "give us lots of money now for the privilege of still paying lots of money out-of-pocket when you need healthcare later."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 09:34:47 PM
Can you give me one source from the US government that says so?

Governments do not determine human rights.

On what basis are you saying gun ownership is described as a fundamental right everywhere?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 10:19:52 PM
my dude, private insurance already works on exactly the same principle. your insurer doesn't set your dollars aside for you in case you need them later. they spend the money you give them on other people's healthcare. that's just how any kind of group insurance works. you're paying for it to be available to you when you need it.

i do not understand this quixotic quest to preserve the "freedom" to not spend money on healthcare. that's not a genuine freedom. i don't think i've ever met a single human who wants to make that choice. and that's because it isn't really a free and un-coerced choice. everyone wants to not be sick and debilitated. being sick and debilitated are anathema to freedom.

put another way: "i have to pay these taxes because i don't want to lose freedom by going to jail" is qualitatively identical to "i have to pay my private insurance bill because i don't want to lose freedom by getting sick and not having any healthcare." they're both coerced choices.

the only real consideration is — how do we min-max cost and access to a service that literally everyone requires? right now we have a system of private firms that minimize access and maximize costs for the purpose of extracting profit from the coerced choice to purchase health insurance. how about instead we have a system that operates on literally precisely the same principle as private insurance, but actually provides a service.

tbh if the choice were between single-payer and private insurance with the same access to healthcare, then i'd probably be more sympathetic to your view. i dunno about you, but my plan is currently "give us lots of money now for the privilege of still paying lots of money out-of-pocket when you need healthcare later."

Private insurance is voluntary and makes people pay based on their individual status. If a person is more likely to require expensive healthcare, an insurer will give them a higher premium to offset their costs. The government cannot (and should not) charge people based on their healthcare choices. Asking for public healthcare, and considering it a right, is the equivalent of asking the government to do things like regulate health as a whole. No, the system is not perfect, but it's better than moving the cost to the government. What you'll end up with is a bad case of regulatory capture. (or, you know, exactly what happened with ACA). Moving the cost to the government makes healthcare cheaper in much the same way as having the government pay for higher learning makes tuition for colleges go down: ergo, it doesn't.

I would only agree with public healthcare alongside the introductions of things like sugar taxes, higher drug taxes, and mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications. In other words, if the government gets involved in the healthcare business, it should be all of it, not just fronting the cost of healthcare to taxpayers who shouldn't be responsible for it. Personally, I don't think the government should do any of that and therefore it should stay out of healthcare. Unless you want to tax people for being fat, you shouldn't want public healthcare, either.

Ahhh, I figured you were using your own personal definition.

Welp, nothing to argue then. 

You never answered my question. If the UN determined that X race has no right to live, would you agree with it? The answer is almost certainly 'no' and that means you're the one deciding what are human rights and not the UN. Ultimately, rights are up to you to decide for yourself, not for some government or psuedo-government to lecture to you.

On what basis are you saying gun ownership is described as a fundamental right everywhere?

The basis that human rights do not suddenly exist in some places and not in others. You are confused between what's legal and illegal and what's a human right. The two are not connected at all.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 16, 2020, 10:24:55 PM
mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications

Why should anyone have to pay more because of this?  The whole point to insurance is that everyone chips in and the money goes to who needs it.  You are healthy and don't have any genetic problems, well good for you, feel lucky you DON'T need to use it as much as others, don't get upset because you have to 'waste' money on insurance you don't need.

Why have insurance at all if you're just going to force people to pay for their misfortune and bad luck?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 10:29:48 PM
mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications

Why should anyone have to pay more because of this?  The whole point to insurance is that everyone chips in and the money goes to who needs it.  You are healthy and don't have any genetic problems, well good for you, feel lucky you DON'T need to use it as much as others, don't get upset because you have to 'waste' money on insurance you don't need.

Why have insurance at all if you're just going to force people to pay for their misfortune and bad luck?

Insurance is fundamentally a bet that the insurer will make more money than they'll expend taking care of the collective insured. The betting odds change based on how healthy you are. If the government is paying a cost based on betting, how is it not fair that the government get a better idea of the odds?

If the odds are that a given person will cost more money, then that person should be required to pay a higher cost over time to offset the chance they'll require more money. The most common healthcare problems are often entirely voluntary. Drinking, obesity, reckless driving, smoking, unprotected sex, these are all voluntary items that increase the cost of healthcare to the individual. Why should a taxpayer who chooses none of these things be forced to pay for one who does?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 10:36:56 PM
mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications

Why should anyone have to pay more because of this?  The whole point to insurance is that everyone chips in and the money goes to who needs it.  You are healthy and don't have any genetic problems, well good for you, feel lucky you DON'T need to use it as much as others, don't get upset because you have to 'waste' money on insurance you don't need.

Why have insurance at all if you're just going to force people to pay for their misfortune and bad luck?

Insurance is fundamentally a bet that the insurer will make more money than they'll expend taking care of the collective insured. The betting odds change based on how healthy you are. If the government is paying a cost based on betting, how is it not fair that the government get a better idea of the odds?

If the odds are that a given person will cost more money, then that person should be required to pay a higher cost over time to offset the chance they'll require more money. The most common healthcare problems are often entirely voluntary. Drinking, obesity, reckless driving, smoking, unprotected sex, these are all voluntary items that increase the cost of healthcare to the individual. Why should a taxpayer who chooses none of these things be forced to pay for one who does?

So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 10:42:50 PM
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 16, 2020, 11:02:33 PM
mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications

Why should anyone have to pay more because of this?  The whole point to insurance is that everyone chips in and the money goes to who needs it.  You are healthy and don't have any genetic problems, well good for you, feel lucky you DON'T need to use it as much as others, don't get upset because you have to 'waste' money on insurance you don't need.

Why have insurance at all if you're just going to force people to pay for their misfortune and bad luck?

Insurance is fundamentally a bet that the insurer will make more money than they'll expend taking care of the collective insured. The betting odds change based on how healthy you are. If the government is paying a cost based on betting, how is it not fair that the government get a better idea of the odds?

If the odds are that a given person will cost more money, then that person should be required to pay a higher cost over time to offset the chance they'll require more money. The most common healthcare problems are often entirely voluntary. Drinking, obesity, reckless driving, smoking, unprotected sex, these are all voluntary items that increase the cost of healthcare to the individual. Why should a taxpayer who chooses none of these things be forced to pay for one who does?

Because this isn't a game.  It's not about keeping score and making sure health care is fair.  Life isn't fair.  It's not fair to be diagnosed with cancer when you're 6.

It's immoral to deny health care to people just because they weren't born to rich parents or fell into the wrong risk group.  Dying because of where you were born? That's not fair.

If you are concerned people are doing unhealthy things and it's not fair they get health care, well tax the things you don't like, you mentioned that before.

But don't deny people health care based on risk factors they can't control.  The US healthcare system is a disaster. People shouldn't have to die because a corporation wants more profits.

I know people in other countries would never have survived to be an adult here because they couldn't have paid for care they needed.  Do they not deserve to live?  Are their lives worthless because their parents were not wealthy? 

I'm sorry if you feel your forced to pay for other peoples health care.  I hope you continue to be forced to pay for others, it's way better than being the one that needs it.  Consider yourself lucky.

You don't want to go down the road of deciding who should get care based on their life choices.  After all, smokers actually cost the government LESS because on average they die early from aggressive cancers and don't live long enough to collect lots of benefits and need years of expensive end of life care.  If you're going to value a life purely on how much the government has to spend on them you might find yourself the one being thrown out into the cold.  Your healthy living is going to be expensive in the long run after all. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 17, 2020, 12:20:30 AM
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.

Makes a lot more sense than gun ownership being a right.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 17, 2020, 01:14:59 AM
Quote
But don't deny people health care based on risk factors they can't control.  The US healthcare system is a disaster. People shouldn't have to die because a corporation wants more profits.

There already is socialized medicine in the US. It's called medicaid for the poor and medicare for the old. Millions are on it, and use it to get healthcare.

Why should people who can afford healthcare get it too?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 17, 2020, 01:40:06 AM
Quote
But don't deny people health care based on risk factors they can't control.  The US healthcare system is a disaster. People shouldn't have to die because a corporation wants more profits.

There already is socialized medicine in the US. It's called medicaid for the poor and medicare for the old. Millions are on it, and use it to get healthcare.

Why should people who can afford healthcare get it too?

Why not?  Other countries manage it.  Why can't the richest country on the planet give all their citizens access to heath care?

Why do you want to deny people health care?  There are plenty of people who can't afford health care but are not old or poor enough to get either medicare or medicaid.  Plenty of people who can afford insurance still go bankrupt due to medical bills that insurance won't cover.

Obamacare expanded Medicaid to younger people but of course, only the blue states enacted it, so if you're in a red state you are out of luck.

Millions are on it, but we still have 30 million people without health care.  In the richest country on the planet.  That is just sad.



Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 17, 2020, 02:14:45 AM
That's not a good enough reason. If hospitals are playing games and using out of network doctors and causing medical bankruptcies, that can be fixed through legislation. I don't see why the entire field needs to be socialized if there is a single problem.

The people who are poor or old are largely already on the socialized programs. The socialized programs of Medicare and Medicaid already serve almost 160 million people combined.

Medicare - 61.2 Million (https://www.ncpssm.org/our-issues/medicare/medicare-fast-facts/)
Medicaid - 97 Million  (https://www.cbpp.org/research/health/policy-basics-introduction-to-medicaid)

Much more than the 30 million figure cited. Considering the US population is 328.2 million (https://www.google.com/search?q=US+population), that's a lot. Medicine is already largely socialized. Medicaid even offers socialized supplemental insurance for people who are under-insured.

The 30 million figure appears to only refer to people who went without coverage at some point during the year: “Nearly 30 million Americans went without coverage at some point in 2019.” (https://www.marketplace.org/2020/09/16/census-survey-nearly-30-million-people-without-health-insurance-2019/) The Continuation of Health Coverage (COBRA) program allows you to bill medical claims to your previous insurance if you get sick for up to 18 months if they are transitioning between jobs, as long as you pay the rate your employer was paying. If you are unemployed for a long period of time then you should probably be on Medicaid. Medicaid can be applied for 60 days after losing your job, which some people neglect to apply for.

The actual number of chronically uninsured might be unaware of the socialized healthcare options available to them, are young and healthy, or don't care. If they get sick they know that they can just get insurance when they need it, since applicants are not judged for pre-existing conditions anymore.

Medicine is already socialized for those who need it. There is no reason to socialize it for people who can afford it. If it was totally socialized the people who could afford it would just be paying for it anyway via taxes, with an extra layer of government bureaucracy, and would likely get less options available to them. Right now young people can choose a cheaper catastrophic plan, and people willing to pay more can choose elaborate plans that include non-standard alternative practitioners or incidentals considered cosmetic by regular plans. If it was standardized by the government to a single plan there would be fewer options available. It also removes the competition aspect among insurance providers which naturally makes the standard plans employers buy cheaper.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 17, 2020, 01:29:47 PM
Giuliani to release (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/16/giuliani_hard_drives_and_texts_back_up_hunter_biden_story_trump_taxes_published_without_verification.html) evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

(https://i.imgur.com/QDiCTUt.gif)

Giuliani interview with Daily Caller on Hunter Biden's laptop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7ziEwfWghA&feature=emb_title&ab_channel=DailyCaller
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 17, 2020, 01:48:17 PM
That's not a good enough reason. If hospitals are playing games and using out of network doctors and causing medical bankruptcies, that can be fixed through legislation. I don't see why the entire field needs to be socialized if there is a single problem.

The people who are poor or old are largely already on the socialized programs. The socialized programs of Medicare and Medicaid already serve almost 160 million people combined.

Medicare - 61.2 Million (https://www.ncpssm.org/our-issues/medicare/medicare-fast-facts/)
Medicaid - 97 Million  (https://www.cbpp.org/research/health/policy-basics-introduction-to-medicaid)

Much more than the 30 million figure cited. Considering the US population is 320 million, that's a lot. Medicine is already largely socialized.

The 30 million figure appears to only refer to people who went without coverage at some point during the year: “Nearly 30 million Americans went without coverage at some point in 2019.” (https://www.marketplace.org/2020/09/16/census-survey-nearly-30-million-people-without-health-insurance-2019/) The Continuation of Health Coverage (COBRA) program allows you to bill medical claims to your previous insurance if you get sick for up to 18 months if they are transitioning between jobs, as long as you pay the rate your employer was paying. If you are unemployed for a long period of time then you should probably be on Medicaid. Medicaid can be applied for 60 days after losing your job, which some people neglect to apply for.

The actual number of chronically uninsured might be unaware of the socialized healthcare options available to them, are young and healthy, or don't care. If they get sick they know that they can just get insurance when they need it, since applicants are not judged for pre-existing conditions anymore.

Medicine is already socialized for those who need it. There is no reason to socialize it for people who can afford it. If it was totally socialized the people who could afford it would just be paying for it anyway via taxes, with an extra layer of government bureaucracy, and would likely get less options available to them. Right now young people can choose a cheaper catastrophic plan, and people willing to pay can choose elaborate plans that include non-standard alternative practitioners or incidentals considered cosmetic by regular plans. If it was standardized by the government to a single plan there would be fewer options available. It also removes the competition aspect which naturally makes the standard plans employers buy cheaper.
Medicare and medicaid qualifications vary by state and "need" is a hard term to apply.  For example, a walmart cashier doesn't get insurance via his job nor will medicaid be offered in most cases. 

The requirements are strict in many states.  Also, doctors are not required to accept medicare patients, if I recall.  So that hurts options too.


Giuliani to release (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/16/giuliani_hard_drives_and_texts_back_up_hunter_biden_story_trump_taxes_published_without_verification.html) evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

(https://i.imgur.com/QDiCTUt.gif)

Giuliani interview with Daily Caller on Hunter Biden's laptop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7ziEwfWghA&feature=emb_title&ab_channel=DailyCaller

As opposed to... Now?
Also, he really wants to play that card?  Mr. 'Join my club and you can meet me' Trump?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 17, 2020, 02:09:54 PM
If people on medicare and medicaid are still paying out of pocket and experiencing medical bankruptcies, then its a shit system.  My friend in the US, who had medical insurance, got breast cancer and still had to pay tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket.  Its a shit system.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 17, 2020, 02:53:26 PM
Giuliani to release (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/16/giuliani_hard_drives_and_texts_back_up_hunter_biden_story_trump_taxes_published_without_verification.html) evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

Yes, I'm sure whatever this is will be vastly more corrupt than all the crap Trump has done in the past 4 years with his hotels and resorts directly funneling taxpayer money into his properties and making the secret service pay to stay at his hotels and letting foreign governments directly bribe him by going to his hotels.

Plus God knows what with whatever foreign bank he owes that 400 million to and... yeah.

Yawn.

Trump is a walking conflict of interest and we are supposed to get riled up about something crazy Giuliani is going to say?  Sure.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 17, 2020, 04:51:44 PM
Giuliani to release (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/16/giuliani_hard_drives_and_texts_back_up_hunter_biden_story_trump_taxes_published_without_verification.html) evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

Yes, I'm sure whatever this is will be vastly more corrupt than all the crap Trump has done in the past 4 years with his hotels and resorts directly funneling taxpayer money into his properties and making the secret service pay to stay at his hotels and letting foreign governments directly bribe him by going to his hotels.

Plus God knows what with whatever foreign bank he owes that 400 million to and... yeah.

Yawn.

Trump is a walking conflict of interest and we are supposed to get riled up about something crazy Giuliani is going to say?  Sure.

My guess is that it's going to be as treasonous, juicy, and fact-filled as the Falconer and the Survivor story.

I get the sort of TV "Upcoming Episode Teaser" aspect of saying stuff will be released 10 days before, but also seems like sort of a risky gambit to wait when so many people are voting early. I'm looking forward to it anyway and will set my DVR accordingly.

Edit: Just read the last line again: "This has three people on the record, now four. It's a hard drive and text messages. If you read them, it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."

...it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's. - "Almost"? Interesting hedge. Very unlike Rudy. Based upon his past bloviating I would expect something more like, "It's impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 17, 2020, 05:44:54 PM
Giuliani to release (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/16/giuliani_hard_drives_and_texts_back_up_hunter_biden_story_trump_taxes_published_without_verification.html) evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

Yes, I'm sure whatever this is will be vastly more corrupt than all the crap Trump has done in the past 4 years with his hotels and resorts directly funneling taxpayer money into his properties and making the secret service pay to stay at his hotels and letting foreign governments directly bribe him by going to his hotels.

Plus God knows what with whatever foreign bank he owes that 400 million to and... yeah.

Yawn.

Trump is a walking conflict of interest and we are supposed to get riled up about something crazy Giuliani is going to say?  Sure.

My guess is that it's going to be as treasonous, juicy, and fact-filled as the Falconer and the Survivor story.

I get the sort of TV "Upcoming Episode Teaser" aspect of saying stuff will be released 10 days before, but also seems like sort of a risky gambit to wait when so many people are voting early. I'm looking forward to it anyway and will set my DVR accordingly.

Edit: Just read the last line again: "This has three people on the record, now four. It's a hard drive and text messages. If you read them, it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."

...it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's. - "Almost"? Interesting hedge. Very unlike Rudy. Based upon his past bloviating I would expect something more like, "It's impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."

"We have all this evidence but, you know, we're not entirely sure where its from.  Could be from Hunter Biden's HDD.  Could be from a fan fic someone wrote.  Who can say?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 17, 2020, 06:27:42 PM
The story on how this HD came in to Giuliani’s possession has been very malleable from telling to telling. Either the store owner cloned it and got in touch with Giuliani somehow or Giuliani got in touch with him or it was through the FBI. It’s also possible the emails came from the identified Russian agent he has been working with, but that’s speculatory. What has been leaked so far is not very damning. I’m interested you see if there anything with more teeth.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 17, 2020, 09:24:51 PM
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.

(https://i.imgur.com/FSgZphv.gif)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 17, 2020, 09:58:10 PM
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.

I wish we had that Rudy Guliani today.

I'm not sure who this half senile butt-dialing, hot-micing, lying, ass-kissing Trump sycophant is, but it's not him.

Have you seen him talk lately? He's clearly lost his marbles.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 17, 2020, 11:30:46 PM
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.


His job is to do Trump’s bidding now. He may or may not have evidence of a crime, Im interested to see, but I highly doubt anything related to Burisma will be that damning, especially considering what’s generally acceptable in US politics.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 18, 2020, 05:22:57 AM
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.

(https://i.imgur.com/FSgZphv.gif)

Isn't it nice to see political enemies as the same as mafia crime families?  Gives you a real, fuzzy, communist USSR feel, doesn't it, Comrade? 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 21, 2020, 10:50:43 PM
If Gulania had info the best thing to do would be to release it before tomorrow's Thursday debate. Release it at a time for peak embarrassment. Biden would either have to answer for it on air or drop out of the debate, generating more media momentum on it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman2020 on October 22, 2020, 02:14:25 AM
Well anything he drops now is going to be a lot less effective, now that he was found duped into (almost) jacking off in a hotel room as part of the next Borat movie...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 22, 2020, 03:47:31 AM
If Gulania had info the best thing to do would be to release it before tomorrow's Thursday debate. Release it at a time for peak embarrassment. Biden would either have to answer for it on air or drop out of the debate, generating more media momentum on it.

But he won't because he doesn't.

Just like I could release all the data I have on Tom, showing that he's actually a 26 year old high school dropout troll.  I mean, its ALOT of data, really.  But I'm not ready to release it. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 23, 2020, 01:24:13 AM
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.

Makes a lot more sense than gun ownership being a right.

How do you make it a right to provide a service? Do you intend on forcing doctors to attend to patients? Such a system doesn't make fundamental sense to me. Remember, the right is to own a gun, not the right to be given a gun. No one has the right to be given a service or product, the very idea that they do is against the autonomy rights of others.

That isn't to say that some countries do in fact force people to provide a service or product to others. Governments exist to force people to do things, so this shouldn't be a surprise.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 23, 2020, 01:31:17 AM
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.

Makes a lot more sense than gun ownership being a right.

How do you make it a right to provide a service? Do you intend on forcing doctors to attend to patients? Such a system doesn't make fundamental sense to me.

I would recommend researching other countries that implement these services.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Clyde Frog on October 23, 2020, 01:33:42 AM
I'm pretty sure ER doctors, for example, don't have a choice either way - they have to provide service when someone shows up that needs care. And the cost of the uninsured who also can't and/or refuse to pay gets passed on to the rest of us as increased cost. Sure would be nice to have that accounted for as a true "cost of doing business" that would be negotiated as such and, in the end, should cost the public less. We're paying that money anyway. If we can provide all Americans a better quality of life, which we can seemingly afford based on looking at how other countries have implemented single payer healthcare, and in doing so we can also end up spending less overall (which, again, other countries that are using that model have shown is possible), that seems like a win.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 23, 2020, 01:36:16 AM
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.

Makes a lot more sense than gun ownership being a right.
How do you make it a right to provide a service? Do you intend on forcing doctors to attend to patients?

The Hippocratic Oath pretty much covers off on this already.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 29, 2020, 10:49:25 AM
So Tucker Carlson claimed he had incriminating documents about Biden.

But he lost them.

Seriously.  (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/fox-news-tucker-carlson-hunter-biden-evidence-deep-state-b1412878.html)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 29, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
So Tucker Carlson claimed he had incriminating documents about Biden.

But he lost them.

Seriously.  (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/fox-news-tucker-carlson-hunter-biden-evidence-deep-state-b1412878.html)

I know.
No backups.
No copies.
No one even read them, apparently.

Go figure.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on October 29, 2020, 02:43:28 PM
Somebody characterized it as "The dog ate my October Surprise", that's hilarious.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on October 29, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
It's funny, but Carlson's usual viewers are the intended audience for this, not us, and they undoubtedly fully believe him and are frantically imagining all sorts of terrible things that the documents would have disclosed.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 29, 2020, 06:54:35 PM
It's funny, but Carlson's usual viewers are the intended audience for this, not us, and they undoubtedly fully believe him and are frantically imagining all sorts of terrible things that the documents would have disclosed.

Reading youtube comments it seems like its more "Well, he didn't SAY he didn't have backups so lets wait and see..."

Which is just sad.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 29, 2020, 07:23:10 PM
Carlson didn't say anything about not having copies, though. Carlson just said that his mail appears to have been tampered with/stolen.

Journalist Roger Sollenberger claims that Carlson told him that he did have copies.

https://twitter.com/SollenbergerRC/status/1321638898834038785

(https://i.imgur.com/C2dugS5.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 29, 2020, 07:32:30 PM
There may be hope after all for yet another treasonous, damning October Surprise just like the last handful of them that all crashed and burned:

UPS says it found the lost cache of documents that Tucker Carlson claimed would damage Joe Biden's campaign
https://www.businessinsider.com/ups-said-found-lost-tucker-carlson-documents-sending-back-2020-10
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 29, 2020, 10:11:36 PM
There may be hope after all for yet another treasonous, damning October Surprise just like the last handful of them that all crashed and burned:

UPS says it found the lost cache of documents that Tucker Carlson claimed would damage Joe Biden's campaign
https://www.businessinsider.com/ups-said-found-lost-tucker-carlson-documents-sending-back-2020-10

I'm sure they'll be just as damning as literal treason.  Yep.  And we'll see them and they'll live up to the hype.  No doubt.  I'm sure a digital copy is being readied to be posted online as we speak.


Oh snap.  I just realized what they're doing: November Surprise.
They hype up some damning evidence so close to election day that by the time they release it and admit its nothing big, its already Nov. 4.

Example:
Oct 30  Biden is going to court!
Nov 1 Biden Broke THE LAW!!!!!!
Nov 2: Biden to stand before A JUDGE!
Nov 3: Election coverage
Nov 4: Biden goes before judge about parking ticket.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 04, 2020, 03:44:21 AM
Trump is winning by a landslide. :(
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 04, 2020, 07:09:07 PM
Trump is winning by a landslide. :(

He is.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 04, 2020, 09:54:09 PM
For the Trump landslide to be stopped he only needs to lose:
• NV and AZ, where Trump is currently losing
• PA which is trending away from Trump
• GA which is trending away from Trump and “oopsie! Lost 300,000 ballots”
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 04, 2020, 09:57:48 PM
If Biden gets Nevada and Michigan, where he's currently ahead, that's 270 and it's over.

Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Georgia are all in play too.

It's looking pretty good for Joe right now.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: junker on November 04, 2020, 09:58:53 PM
If Biden gets Nevada and Michigan, where he's currently ahead, that's 270 and it's over.

Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Georgia are all in play too.

It's looking pretty good for Joe right now.

NYT has called MI for Biden, so it looks like he has WI and MI. If NV and AZ hold, then Biden wins.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 04, 2020, 09:59:52 PM
If Biden gets Nevada and Michigan, where he's currently ahead, that's 270 and it's over.

Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Georgia are all in play too.

It's looking pretty good for Joe right now.

NYT has called MI for Biden, so it looks like he has WI and MI. If NV and AZ hold, then Biden wins.
Fox News interrupted Rudy G to call MI for Biden, so you know it’s legit.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 04, 2020, 10:15:14 PM
I won't be satisfied by a victory this narrow, especially not with Republicans retaining the Senate. There is inherent value to the Oval Office not being occupied by a literal piece of shit who revels in his IRL villainy, but I was hoping for a definitive repudiation of Trump's presidency. I can't believe that there are this many Americans looking at the state of our country and apparently saying, "Yes, this is acceptable. Four more years of this, please."

And I'm not willing to take it for granted that Biden has won yet.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 04, 2020, 10:25:01 PM
And I'm not willing to take it for granted that Biden has won yet.
Wise. But I am starting to think that Biden is going to do it. It’s going to be very close though and is going to get very nasty and litigious and will leave the US a more divided nation than ever.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on November 04, 2020, 11:01:06 PM
The good part about Biden is he;s gonna give us the socialized meds, free money, easy life or dems burn the place down. Satan would approve.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 04, 2020, 11:02:13 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/crowd-storm-detroit-vote-count-election-2020-b1598248.html

First civil unrest related to Trump's stupid and irresponsible proclamations about voting.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman2020 on November 04, 2020, 11:07:42 PM
Yeah, the real pain isnt going to start until after the votes have been counted. Sad to think it's only going to get worse from here...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on November 04, 2020, 11:17:30 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/crowd-storm-detroit-vote-count-election-2020-b1598248.html

First civil unrest related to Trump's stupid and irresponsible proclamations about voting.
I can't wait for free dog food at Walmart....this is going to be a great year.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 04, 2020, 11:21:35 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/crowd-storm-detroit-vote-count-election-2020-b1598248.html

First civil unrest related to Trump's stupid and irresponsible proclamations about voting.
I can't wait for free dog food at Walmart....this is going to be a great year.

Jesus hates looters, sinner.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: crutonius on November 05, 2020, 01:15:16 AM
I won't be satisfied by a victory this narrow, especially not with Republicans retaining the Senate. There is inherent value to the Oval Office not being occupied by a literal piece of shit who revels in his IRL villainy, but I was hoping for a definitive repudiation of Trump's presidency. I can't believe that there are this many Americans looking at the state of our country and apparently saying, "Yes, this is acceptable. Four more years of this, please."

And I'm not willing to take it for granted that Biden has won yet.

Agreed.  Should Biden win then many will be celebrating but they should be freaking the hell out.  If it weren't for covid then Trump would have easily skated to reelection. 

Four years ago when Trump won it was shocking.  I felt like I didn't know this country.  But maybe that many people didn't watch TV.  Maybe they didn't research  Trump all that much.

Now all of Trump's faults have been on a loudspeaker to the entire world for the last four years.  But without a catastrophe he would have won.

There is something deeply wrong with this country.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 05, 2020, 10:21:47 PM
I won't be satisfied by a victory this narrow, especially not with Republicans retaining the Senate. There is inherent value to the Oval Office not being occupied by a literal piece of shit who revels in his IRL villainy, but I was hoping for a definitive repudiation of Trump's presidency. I can't believe that there are this many Americans looking at the state of our country and apparently saying, "Yes, this is acceptable. Four more years of this, please."

And I'm not willing to take it for granted that Biden has won yet.

We live in a shit country. That's really all there is to it. We can now confidently box in nearly three quarters of the country (people who voted for Trump or a third party, and people eligible to vote that chose not to) as either a despicable asshole or just an unrelenting idiot. The idiots can't help it, obviously, though I do think there's a lot of willful ignorance out there; most people just don't even care about politics.

This is the country we live in, a country largely defined by its ignorance, greed, bigotry, xenophobia, and desperate need to hold onto them guns. Yeah, it's depressing.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 05, 2020, 11:32:53 PM
You probably shouldn’t include minors in your polemic.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 05, 2020, 11:49:32 PM
You probably shouldn’t include minors in your polemic.

I didn't really, I made it clear I was talking about people who can vote... but anyway, why not? Minors grow up, and most of them will grow up to be assholes or idiots in this country too. The cycle will repeat. Is it reaching for me to suggest that Barron Trump will likely grow up to be as much of an ignorant piece of shit as his parents and half-siblings? Assholes and morons are assholes and morons no matter how old they are. The kids of today are nothing more than the ignorant cunts of tomorrow, for the most part.

We've been a shit country for most of our existence; what this election demonstrates, more than anything else, is that it's nothing but empty idealism to think that we live in some kind of more enlightened time.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on November 06, 2020, 12:17:00 AM
I won't be satisfied by a victory this narrow, especially not with Republicans retaining the Senate. There is inherent value to the Oval Office not being occupied by a literal piece of shit who revels in his IRL villainy, but I was hoping for a definitive repudiation of Trump's presidency. I can't believe that there are this many Americans looking at the state of our country and apparently saying, "Yes, this is acceptable. Four more years of this, please."

And I'm not willing to take it for granted that Biden has won yet.
Jesus said turn the other cheek, not drop your Smith & Wesson. Peter whacked off an ear. Having a weapon at the ready as Jesus instructed (The sword is a symbol representing the power of God to fight the influences of evil and bring people to repentance, for it has “divine power to destroy strongholds” (2 Cor 10:4 ESV)) is a way to combat the evil that has infiltrated our lives. I can't believe anyone couldn't believe most, if not all, these politicians are as evil as Satan and his minions.

The rule of law says I can bare arms, God says combat EVIL, destroy strongholds.....

We live in a shit country. That's really all there is to it. We can now confidently box in nearly three quarters of the country (people who voted for Trump or a third party, and people eligible to vote that chose not to) as either a despicable asshole or just an unrelenting idiot. The idiots can't help it, obviously, though I do think there's a lot of willful ignorance out there; most people just don't even care about politics.

This is the country we live in, a country largely defined by its ignorance, greed, bigotry, xenophobia, and desperate need to hold onto them guns. Yeah, it's depressing.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 06, 2020, 01:14:40 AM
You probably shouldn’t include minors in your polemic.

I didn't really, I made it clear I was talking about people who can vote... but anyway, why not? Minors grow up, and most of them will grow up to be assholes or idiots in this country too. The cycle will repeat. Is it reaching for me to suggest that Barron Trump will likely grow up to be as much of an ignorant piece of shit as his parents and half-siblings? Assholes and morons are assholes and morons no matter how old they are. The kids of today are nothing more than the ignorant cunts of tomorrow, for the most part.

We've been a shit country for most of our existence; what this election demonstrates, more than anything else, is that it's nothing but empty idealism to think that we live in some kind of more enlightened time.

Ah sorry. I was confused.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 06, 2020, 02:20:12 PM
Well unless Trump manages to use the Supreme Court to steal it, Biden has won.

People seem to think he won't accomplish anything because the Republicans are likely retaining hold of the Senate. I almost hope so; I want to see if Joe lives up to his promises of trying to compromise with the other side. Maybe two years of Republican obstruction in the face of Biden's sincere attempts to reach out to them and accomplish positive change will disgust enough people that we can flip it in the next midterm.

Of course that might hinge on too many of the American people not being ignorant assholes for it to be feasible. Maybe I'm not giving up hope just yet.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 06, 2020, 02:22:10 PM
Well unless Trump manages to use the Supreme Court to steal it, Biden has won.

People seem to think he won't accomplish anything because the Republicans are likely retaining hold of the Senate. I almost hope so; I want to see if Joe lives up to his promises of trying to compromise with the other side. Maybe two years of Republican obstruction in the face of Biden's sincere attempts to reach out to them and accomplish positive change will disgust enough people that we can flip it in the next midterm.

Theoretically, if the Dems win both runoffs in GA, then they will have a Senate deadlock and the deciding vote.  I would like to see some bipartisan policy making though.  Something the country needs, desperately.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 06, 2020, 02:33:59 PM
Well unless Trump manages to use the Supreme Court to steal it, Biden has won.

People seem to think he won't accomplish anything because the Republicans are likely retaining hold of the Senate. I almost hope so; I want to see if Joe lives up to his promises of trying to compromise with the other side. Maybe two years of Republican obstruction in the face of Biden's sincere attempts to reach out to them and accomplish positive change will disgust enough people that we can flip it in the next midterm.

Of course that might hinge on too many of the American people not being ignorant assholes for it to be feasible. Maybe I'm not giving up hope just yet.

Probably but the margins are razer thin.  700 in Georgia.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 06, 2020, 02:42:43 PM
PA has swung huge for Biden, and AZ and NV are still his to win.  The mail in voting has been 4:1 for Biden in PA and his lead will likely widen.  Recounts rarely yield large vote swings, so unless there is actual evidence of fraud, then Trump is likely done.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on November 06, 2020, 06:23:48 PM
 QFS blockchain encryption codes

If every ballot was watermarked, Biden choo choo train is a world of hurt. Peeps going to jail. Trump out smarted the losers with da sting.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 06, 2020, 06:40:33 PM
No, the ballots have not been watermarked. Don't be stupid.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/bogus-qanon-claim-that-mail-in-ballots-are-illegitimate/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 06, 2020, 07:00:12 PM
No, the ballots have not been watermarked. Don't be stupid.

Uhh...

https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/news/10346-ballots-are-secure-knowledge-on-vote-by-mail-is

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 06, 2020, 07:24:21 PM
The context of what I said speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman2020 on November 06, 2020, 07:31:38 PM
I dont see what the big "AHA" moment is here... IF there were fake ballots entered, those will be uncovered in the inevitable investigations that will be initiated shortly. And IF there are fraudulent ballots, they will be eliminated and the FBI(?) will investigate their source and hopefully press charges.

So far I haven't heard of any evidence suggesting this has actually happened...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 06, 2020, 08:21:13 PM
The context of what I said speaks for itself.

What context is that? You said that the ballots have not been watermarked. They have been.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 06, 2020, 08:27:36 PM
No, the ballots have not been watermarked. Don't be stupid.

Uhh...

https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/news/10346-ballots-are-secure-knowledge-on-vote-by-mail-is

    "Ballots, like money, are printed on special fraud-resistant paper, with particular size, thickness, weight, texture, color, and formats made to exact specifications. Furthermore, the paper is impressed with unique identifiers, such as watermarks, that certify it as an official ballot."
Mine was not.
I can assure you mine has no water mark, special paper, texture, color, etc...  Although it was very exact in its specification: A4.


However, to further prod:
If these ballots are specially made (and I'm agreeing they are) then Trump has nothing to worry about.  It should be very very easy to spot Biden frauds.  So really, if there are frauds, the thousands of Republican pollsters should have caught it by now and it would have made national news.  Yeah?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 06, 2020, 08:35:02 PM
The context of what I said speaks for itself.

What context is that? You said that the ballots have not been watermarked. They have been.

You're usually better than this, Tom. Are you this rattled about Biden's likely victory?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman2020 on November 06, 2020, 08:42:17 PM
Is it too soon to point out the fact that with these razor-tight margins, Donnie really could have used the 240k votes of seniors who his actions and inactions as president failed over the last ~8 months?

Is that incredibly insensitive to point out, or is this (tentative) result a kind of justice?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 06, 2020, 08:46:31 PM
Is it too soon to point out the fact that with these razor-tight margins, Donnie really could have used the 240k votes of seniors who his actions and inactions as president failed over the last ~8 months?

Is that incredibly insensitive to point out, or is this (tentative) result a kind of justice?

I said this a long time ago. Republicans skew older; the average Fox News viewer is retirement age. Trump and his cronies actively murdered what might have actually ended up being a consequential part of his own constituency.

Fuck whether it's insensitive to say or not, it's hilariously ironic.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 06, 2020, 10:06:08 PM
The context of what I said speaks for itself.

What context is that?

This context:

QFS blockchain encryption codes

If every ballot was watermarked, Biden choo choo train is a world of hurt. Peeps going to jail. Trump out smarted the losers with da sting.

The secret watermarks that are going to prove that Biden and the Democrats produced a bunch of fake ballots don't exist. That's what J-Man was talking about, and that's what I was talking about. To interject with "but ballots do have watermarks" is a quibble and does not contribute to the discussion.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 07, 2020, 12:07:31 AM
Quote
The secret watermarks that are going to prove that Biden and the Democrats produced a bunch of fake ballots don't exist. That's what J-Man was talking about, and that's what I was talking about. To interject with "but ballots do have watermarks" is a quibble and does not contribute to the discussion.

There are watermarks and security features on the ballots to prevent fake ballots, though. Are you arguing that J-Man claimed that one organization was putting on those security features when it may have been another organization?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 07, 2020, 12:09:06 AM
I'm saying that the conspiracy theory he's referring to is nonsense. There's no secret watermark sting about to bust the Democrats.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 07, 2020, 12:27:22 AM
You're behind on your conspiracy theories, Tom, I'm disappointed. J-Man was specifically referring to a nutty QAnon claim about ultra secret watermarks put on ballots by the Trump campaign to catch them cheating Dems. Look it up, I'm sure you'll be posting about it soon yourself!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 07, 2020, 12:41:48 AM
You're behind on your conspiracy theories, Tom, I'm disappointed. J-Man was specifically referring to a nutty QAnon claim about ultra secret watermarks put on ballots by the Trump campaign to catch them cheating Dems. Look it up, I'm sure you'll be posting about it soon yourself!

November surprise!  There are terabytes of evidence for it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on November 07, 2020, 12:43:36 AM
You're all gonna feel real silly when the Democrats' fraud is exposed and Joe Biden is revealed to have personally fabricated all of those votes.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 07, 2020, 12:49:27 AM
I'm saying that the conspiracy theory he's referring to is nonsense. There's no secret watermark sting about to bust the Democrats.

The purpose of putting on the watermarks and security features is literally to make a sting to bust fraudsters. What do you mean there is no secret sting?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 07, 2020, 12:53:02 AM
I'm saying that the conspiracy theory he's referring to is nonsense. There's no secret watermark sting about to bust the Democrats.

The purpose of putting on the watermarks and security features is literally to make a sting to bust fraudsters. What do you mean there is no secret sting?

They aren't put on there by the Trump administration, Tom. That's what is being claimed.

Umm... Have you been drinking? Rough couple days there?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 07, 2020, 12:55:08 AM
I'm saying that the conspiracy theory he's referring to is nonsense. There's no secret watermark sting about to bust the Democrats.

The purpose of putting on the watermarks and security features is literally to make a sting to bust fraudsters. What do you mean there is no secret sting?

You know, the whole thing going around about the USPS patent to use blockchain and watermarked ballots as a premeditated sting operation by Trump to nab democrat fraudsters, right?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on November 07, 2020, 01:16:47 AM
What do we know? Biden did NOT win by a landslide, Trump continues to outlast, out play, most, and Chris Stapletons "starting over" sounds rather fitting. It will be #1. And we're gonna REROLL...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3svABDnmio&list=RDA3svABDnmio&start_radio=1&t=0

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 07, 2020, 01:21:53 AM
The purpose of watermarks and security features is to create a premeditated sting to bust fraudsters. Why should it matter which organization put them on the ballots? You guys are just arguing about which organization put the security features on them. Pretty weak argument.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 07, 2020, 01:24:07 AM
The purpose of watermarks and security features is to create a premeditated sting to bust fraudsters. Why should it matter which organization put them on the ballots?

Where did somebody say it should?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman2020 on November 07, 2020, 01:34:31 AM
If they watermarked them and it is revealed that there are bogus ballots out there, then find them, DIScount them, and charge those responsible. Adjust the counts accordingly. No one is saying that fake ballots should count... a lot of us are skeptical that there is such a conspiracy afoot, rather than just...a shit load of americans who got sick and tired of that fat orange tweet machine and just said no to four more years of this crap
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 07, 2020, 03:00:36 AM
For the record, Joe might very well win by a landslide, at least as far as Trump is concerned. If he gets PA, NV, AZ, and GA, that would be 306, which was what Trump got four years ago, which Trump considered a landslide victory. So...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman2020 on November 07, 2020, 03:13:02 AM
The thought of him losing by the same 'landslide' he beat Hillary by, despite losing the popular vote... just amazing.

Still early though.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 07, 2020, 03:21:01 AM
The thought of him losing by the same 'landslide' he beat Hillary by, despite losing the popular vote... just amazing.

Still early though.

Can you imagine? He'll love it. And it's against the worst presidential candidate in American history (again, Trump's perspective)! How humiliating for him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 07, 2020, 04:44:00 PM
AP just called PA for Biden.

He won.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 10, 2020, 09:37:12 PM
I love the rhetoric I keep seeing that Trump's followers won't recognize Biden as president because of Trump's recent efforts to deligitimize the results. Like they were ever going to embrace any Democrat as president, lol.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 10, 2020, 09:43:29 PM
I love the rhetoric I keep seeing that Trump's followers won't recognize Biden as president because of Trump's recent efforts to deligitimize the results. Like they were ever going to embrace any Democrat as president, lol.

I fear that this is just gonna be the cycle:

Republican wins - "Support your Presidnet!"
Democrat wins - "He's not MY president!"

America is just so full of hypocryts that it just doesn't matter who wins anymore: Half the nation is gonna hate him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 11, 2020, 03:20:06 PM
Chris Wallace during the first debate: “Will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified?” Joe Biden: “Yes.”

Whoops.

Video: https://twitter.com/SocialM85897394/status/1326483692202635265

(https://i.imgur.com/Z1DZxYV.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 11, 2020, 03:24:33 PM
Chris Wallace during the first debate: “Will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified?” Joe Biden: “Yes.”

Whoops.

https://twitter.com/SocialM85897394/status/1326483692202635265

(https://i.imgur.com/Z1DZxYV.jpg)

I am going to pull from your playbook: it was certified by the media who are independent of Biden.

Now please throw all the rebuttals that we shower you with when you make similarly terrible rationalizations.

On the other hand...  Who gives a fuck if Biden either changed his mind about that or forgot he said that?  I mean it's not like he is bragging about walking unnannounced in to the Miss Teen America dressing room or grabbing women by the pussy, is it?  Surely you can admit that Trump has made much worse ethical violations?  Surely.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 11, 2020, 03:27:58 PM
Is Tom the first known victim of BDS?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 11, 2020, 03:34:11 PM
Is Tom the first known victim of BDS?

Nah, go have a look on Reddit and he has many compatriots.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 11, 2020, 04:00:25 PM
Is Tom the first known victim of BDS?
Nah, go have a look on Reddit and he has many compatriots.
Unfortunately, things could get pretty messy in the US and Trump is just adding fuel to the fire.
If...well, let's face it, when Trump's team's legal challenges are laughed out of court you'd like to think that people like Tom would think
"Oh, OK. Well maybe Trump was full of shit then and there was no widespread fraud that robbed Trump of a second term".

But you know what's going to happen. Trump will simply double down and say that the courts are "in on it" or evidence has been suppressed or do anything other to admit that he just lost bigly. And because of that his supporters will believe the same. Trump will continue to believe he was robbed and that means his supporters will believe that they were robbed.

And 70 million people - or a percentage of them - not just feeling pissed off about the result but actively feeling like they've been cheated out of the president they wanted is a recipe for a pretty toxic atmosphere.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 11, 2020, 04:18:56 PM
Is Tom the first known victim of BDS?
Nah, go have a look on Reddit and he has many compatriots.
Unfortunately, things could get pretty messy in the US and Trump is just adding fuel to the fire.
If...well, let's face it, when Trump's team's legal challenges are laughed out of court you'd like to think that people like Tom would think
"Oh, OK. Well maybe Trump was full of shit then and there was no widespread fraud that robbed Trump of a second term".

But you know what's going to happen. Trump will simply double down and say that the courts are "in on it" or evidence has been suppressed or do anything other to admit that he just lost bigly. And because of that his supporters will believe the same. Trump will continue to believe he was robbed and that means his supporters will believe that they were robbed.

And 70 million people - or a percentage of them - not just feeling pissed off about the result but actively feeling like they've been cheated out of the president they wanted is a recipe for a pretty toxic atmosphere.

I agree, this is going to get worse before it gets better.  I personally would like everyone to cool their jets.  The EC doesn't cast their votes until Dec. 14th anyway, so despite Trump's break with decorum and seemingly undeniable loss in the election, it still isn't a legal win yet.  If the responses could be kept to the easy debunking of Trump's actual legal challenges, or reminders that Trump's rhetoric is simply that, the climate might be a little cooler.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: crutonius on November 11, 2020, 07:07:11 PM
It's almost certainly a bunch of noise.  But still... I was really hoping to be done with Trump nonsense forever but I guess that'll have to wait 70 days.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 11, 2020, 08:19:44 PM
It's almost certainly a bunch of noise.  But still... I was really hoping to be done with Trump nonsense forever but I guess that'll have to wait 70 days.

Once the electoral college votes are allocated it’s all done for Trump.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 13, 2020, 09:13:34 PM
China congratulate Biden

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54871890

Even they can see through Trump’s bullshit now.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 14, 2020, 07:33:29 AM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/final-states-called-biden-s-projected-electoral-college-victory-matches-n1247766

Well, it's official (barring something really unlikely in the Georgia recount). Biden won with 306 electoral votes, the same number that Trump got in 2016.

That means Trump officially lost by a landslide against the worst presidential candidate in American history*.

*Trump's own assessment
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 14, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
It’s not official. State counts haven’t been certified and the Electoral College hasn’t cast their votes.

It’s pretty obvious what will happen, but 2020 might have another surprise for us mortals.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 14, 2020, 01:27:33 PM
Fine, almost officially.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 14, 2020, 01:33:29 PM
Fine, almost officially.
Just another month ish.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Crudblud on November 14, 2020, 01:39:36 PM
I have a couple of questions for people more versed in the minute detail of the US democratic process than I. Could unpledged/faithless electors give Trump the win? Also why is the EC so amazingly retarded as to permit electors to vote contrary to the state they're supposed to represent?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 14, 2020, 01:49:17 PM
I have a couple of questions for people more versed in the minute detail of the US democratic process than I. Could unpledged/faithless electors give Trump the win? Also why is the EC so amazingly retarded as to permit electors to vote contrary to the state they're supposed to represent?

It’s theoretically possible but it would amount to a constructional crisis and fundamental breakdown of their democratic process. If that happened I would expect things to get extremely ugly. The key swing states have already made statements pledging that such an eventuality is not conceivable for them.

EDIT: There are also states with laws against faithless electors. PA and Georgia notably don’t.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 14, 2020, 02:06:00 PM
That's my understanding, technically it can happen but there's no real reason to think it will, and to be fair it would require a hell of a turnover since 36 electors would have to flip to give Trump the win.

On the other hand there were two electors who did flip in the last election, actually giving Trump only 304 electors, so I suppose anything is possible.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: crutonius on November 14, 2020, 06:40:05 PM
I have a couple of questions for people more versed in the minute detail of the US democratic process than I. Could unpledged/faithless electors give Trump the win? Also why is the EC so amazingly retarded as to permit electors to vote contrary to the state they're supposed to represent?

Going by a strict reading of the Constitution, yes.  Our votes for the president are just sort of a recommendation.  Technically Mike Bloomberg could have just bribed each member of the electoral college with 10 million a piece to make him president. 

I believe there are penalties against faithless voters but I don't think they're actually prevented from faithless voting.

To answer your second question, everyone knows it's ridiculous.  But the system works very well as affirmative action for republicans so they're loathe to change it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 07:56:54 AM
(https://www.courant.com/resizer/HcBZ_7HedKvkzA18JP7FEaEqKXc=/1200x0/top/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/GIQECXRUMBETNDAD5X6QWNZKBM.jpg)

Someone should tell Joe that according to Congressional intent and precedent set by President Clinton, that there there is no apparent President-Elect as of today.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/release/hice-gsa-administrator-must-adhere-to-constitution-past-precedent-in-determining-president-elect/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 08:13:22 AM
(https://www.courant.com/resizer/HcBZ_7HedKvkzA18JP7FEaEqKXc=/1200x0/top/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/GIQECXRUMBETNDAD5X6QWNZKBM.jpg)

Someone should tell Joe that according to Congressional intent and precedent set by President Clinton, that there there is no apparent President-Elect as of today.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/release/hice-gsa-administrator-must-adhere-to-constitution-past-precedent-in-determining-president-elect/

Biden Did Not Invent the ‘Office of President-Elect’
Quick Take
Social media posts falsely claim that former Vice President Joe Biden “invented the Office of President-elect.” Donald Trump and Barack Obama also used the term during their transitions to the presidency.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/biden-did-not-invent-the-office-of-president-elect/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 08:17:15 AM
There is such a thing as a President-Elect. Joe Biden just isn't it.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf

(https://i.imgur.com/y8SXmxf.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 08:22:53 AM
Your BDS is getting worse.
We both know that this term is commonly used when someone has been called to have won the election.
Pence and Trump are called "elect" when being introduced to the victory speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsvy10D5rtc
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 08:27:04 AM
The difference is that Hillary conceded. Read the quote again:

Quote
There is such a thing as a President-Elect. Joe Biden just isn't it.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf

(https://i.imgur.com/y8SXmxf.png)

ABC News Video Description: "Hillary Clinton formally and publicly conceded to Donald Trump this morning after an upset defeat in the presidential election."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khK9fIgoNjQ&ab_channel=ABCNews
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 08:52:01 AM
The difference is that Hillary conceded.
Yes. That is the difference. She conceded. Like every defeated candidate since forever, she acted like a grown up.
But while Trump continues to hold his breath like a toddler until things go his way, back in the real world literally everyone else knows Biden won and are calling him President Elect. World leaders have queued up to congratulate him, even China now.
Is Biden and the rest of the world supposed to just not do anything while the Toddler in Chief refuses to accept reality?

EDIT: Parallels with 2000 don't really work. That was a genuinely close contest which needed some sorting out.
This has been a landslide for Biden. He'll get 306 Electoral Votes - which Trump got last time and he called that a landslide, so...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 09:04:43 AM
There is such a thing as a President-Elect. Joe Biden just isn't it.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf

(https://i.imgur.com/y8SXmxf.png)

Joe Biden isn't the president elect simply according to Jody Hice's interpretation and request to the GSA in a letter. A legal precedent was not set in 2000. Hice is making an argument. That's all.

And there are differing opinions on what occurred in 2000:

The Law of Presidential Transitions and the 2000Election
The ability of the incumbent administration to manipulate the Act for political purpose and to thereby undermine the transition efforts of a rival party is certain to tempt future administrations. The Act originally intended that the determination of a President-elect be a relatively simply matter, one to be ascertained solely by examining whether one candidate had earned an electoral college majority. As the sponsor of the Act observed, the 1960 election— one at least as close, contentious, and uncertain as the 2000 election—presented no problems in ascertaining an apparent winner.
Nonetheless, the Administrator of GSA, inspired in large part by political pressures emanating from the White House, refused to recognize an apparent winner until after the Supreme Court ruled in favor of George Bush and after Al Gore conceded the election. In so doing, the Administrator violated the Act’s language and intent and undermined its policies as well, harming the Bush transition and the country as a whole in the process.
Although the Administrator’s actions clearly violated the Act, the Bush-Cheney transition team had little recourse to rectify the violation.

https://digitalcommons.law.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2031&context=lawreview
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 09:18:07 AM
Joe Biden isn't the president elect simply according to Jody Hice's interpretation and request to the GSA in a letter. A legal precedent was not set in 2000. Hice is making an argument. That's all.

Not according to the GSA. The government is refusing to recognize Joe Biden as President-Elect, provide intel briefings, or transition resources.

Another quote from that letter:

(https://i.imgur.com/Q0XmqCu.png)

Please provide the part in the Consecution where the media calls the president.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 09:23:41 AM
Why does any of this matter, Tom?
As usual you're just trying to derail this thread into minutiae of semantics and definitions.
Biden is acting like he won the election because pretty much everyone agrees he did. It wasn't close, either.
So, of course, he's gearing up to take office.
The only people who think there's some dispute about this are Trump and some of his more deluded supporters.
And tbh, I think even Trump secretly knows he lost, he's probably just doing this to fund raise from his supporters and create the support for whatever he wants to do next.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 09:30:35 AM
Why does any of this matter, Tom?
As usual you're just trying to derail this thread into minutiae of semantics and definitions.
Biden is acting like he won the election because pretty much everyone agrees he did. It wasn't close, either.
So, of course, he's gearing up to take office.
The only people who think there's some dispute about this are Trump and some of his more deluded supporters.
And tbh, I think even Trump secretly knows he lost, he's probably just doing this to fund raise from his supporters and create the support for whatever he wants to do next.

You must be confused. It's a statement from Congress's Committee of Oversight and Reform that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. The letter states that he is not President-Elect. Otherwise they would be telling the GSA to recognize Biden as President-Elect and give him the transition resources and intel briefings which he has requested and which other President-Elects have received.

(https://media.thedonald.win/post/AH6lHIRy.jpeg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 09:35:22 AM
Joe Biden isn't the president elect simply according to Jody Hice's interpretation and request to the GSA in a letter. A legal precedent was not set in 2000. Hice is making an argument. That's all.

Not according to the GSA. The government is refusing to recognize Joe Biden as President-Elect, provide intel briefings, or transition resources.

Another quote from that letter:

(https://i.imgur.com/Q0XmqCu.png)

Please provide the part in the Consecution where the media calls the president.

It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Here's what GSA is providing the incoming Biden administration even as it declines to recognize his president-elect status
"While it has not officially acknowledged him as the president-elect, the General Services Administration has been providing the incoming Biden administration with office space and other services as the Democratic nominee."
https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2020/11/13/gsa-reveals-mou-with-biden.html

The GSA isn't providing me with offices.

I don't even know what your point is. You don't like that Biden considers himself the President Elect? Good for you. Instead of someone needing to tell Joe he is not the president elect in some people's eyes, maybe someone should tell Donald to concede with his big boy pants on so we can get on with this peaceful transition of power which is far more of a precedent than any of these GSA transition interpretations.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 09:38:26 AM
Why does any of this matter, Tom?
As usual you're just trying to derail this thread into minutiae of semantics and definitions.
Biden is acting like he won the election because pretty much everyone agrees he did. It wasn't close, either.
So, of course, he's gearing up to take office.
The only people who think there's some dispute about this are Trump and some of his more deluded supporters.
And tbh, I think even Trump secretly knows he lost, he's probably just doing this to fund raise from his supporters and create the support for whatever he wants to do next.

You must be confused. It's a statement from Congress's Committee of Oversight and Reform that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. The letter states that he is not President-Elect. Otherwise they would be telling the GSA to recognize Biden as President-Elect and give him the transaction resources and intel briefings which he has requested and which other President-Elects have received.

(https://media.thedonald.win/post/AH6lHIRy.jpeg)

How is an appeal letter from Jody Hise equal to "Congress has made it official"? Does Jody represent all of Congress?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 09:38:37 AM
It's a statement from Congress's Committee of Oversight and Reform that Joe Biden is not President-Elect.
OK. So what?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 09:39:27 AM
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.

No, Jody Hice did. Not "Congress".
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 09:56:49 AM
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.

No, Jody Hice did. Not "Congress".

Hice is writing as a ranking member on behalf of the Congressional Committee on Oversight and Reform. They put it up on the front page of their website: https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/

(https://i.imgur.com/I8rHiVA.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 09:57:38 AM
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.

No, Jody Hice did. Not "Congress".
I honestly don't know what Tom's issue is here. Were the situation reversed we all know Trump would be going round calling himself President Elect, almost certainly in a more bombastic way than Biden is.
And what is Biden supposed to be doing? It's about 2 months till the inauguration, there needs to be a transfer of power.
Is he supposed to just sit around doing nothing until Trump finishes losing all his spurious cases?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 16, 2020, 10:52:51 AM
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

On the other side is Trump who has been reduced to litigating fucking terrible cases to try and swing a few hundred votes that won’t make a difference.

His inability to accept defeat is firing everyone up to the point that militias are vowing to resist any laws Biden passes because “the election was stolen”.

It wasn’t stolen, Trump just can not accept defeat. Because you have your identity wrapped up in Trump, you can’t either. I suppose once the Electoral College makes their decision on Dec 14th you will have some new complaint.

Only one week until Pennsylvania and Michigan verify their results. Time is running out.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 16, 2020, 01:37:07 PM
The Georgia recount continues with only minor shifts so far:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/georgia-recount-votes-biden-trump-results-b1723475.html

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 03:50:19 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.

https://youtu.be/W9XyTDaVhVQ
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman2020 on November 16, 2020, 04:06:02 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.

https://youtu.be/W9XyTDaVhVQ

No, they report on the results from each state, assume the electors will abide by the law, and project that the incumbent (now lame duck) will accept the will of the people and contribute to the shifting of power. Somehow those last two points arent a given in this crazy world were living in now!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 04:24:04 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.

They project the winner in every election. Literally the only difference right now is we have a toddler in the White House who can't accept he lost, and some of his supporters are gullible enough to believe him and keep sending him money.
What actual point are you making here? That Biden shouldn't call himself President Elect? Everyone else is calling him that.
Or do you object to the fact he's acting like he's going to be the next President? Firstly, pretty much everyone can see he is going to be and secondly what's he supposed to do? Wait until Trump's tantrum blows itself out before doing anything? It seems sensible that he would be preparing to govern as that's not an overnight job. If Trump's right and he did really win (spoiler: he isn't and he didn't) then no real harm done. Better that than not leaving enough time for a transition while Trump continues to stamp his feet in defiance of reality.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 16, 2020, 04:35:14 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.


Really great comment.  Unfortunately for you, it has nothing to do with what I said.  You can go look at state by state results that are self-reported and come to the same conclusion.  It just needs a rubber stamp now.  None of Trump's pathetic and delusional lawsuits will change the result.  You best hope is that the Electoral College completely betrays the will of the people and your democracy.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 04:47:44 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.

They project the winner in every election. Literally the only difference right now is we have a toddler in the White House who can't accept he lost, and some of his supporters are gullible enough to believe him and keep sending him money.
What actual point are you making here? That Biden shouldn't call himself President Elect? Everyone else is calling him that.

It doesn't matter if people are calling him the President-Elect. He's not the President-Elect. The issue is still in contention and the Congressional Oversight Committee and the GSA has confirmed that Biden has not met the necessary threshold. Do let us know when he is the President-Elect.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 04:56:41 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.

They project the winner in every election. Literally the only difference right now is we have a toddler in the White House who can't accept he lost, and some of his supporters are gullible enough to believe him and keep sending him money.
What actual point are you making here? That Biden shouldn't call himself President Elect? Everyone else is calling him that.

It doesn't matter if people are calling him the President-Elect. He's not the President-Elect. The issue is still in contention and the Congressional Oversight Committee and the GSA has confirmed that Biden has not met the necessary threshold. Do let us know when he is the President-Elect.

Do Jody Hise and the GSA determine who the president is?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 16, 2020, 05:02:16 PM
It doesn't matter if people are calling him the President-Elect. He's not the President-Elect.

Only because Trump has a severe truth allergy.

Quote
The issue is still in contention

lol

Quote
and the Congressional Oversight Committee and the GSA has confirmed that Biden has not met the necessary threshold. Do let us know when he is the President-Elect.

When Trump does the decent thing and concedes or once the Electoral College votes I suppose.  I mean, the term president elect isn't really an official designation anyway.  The GSA has specific definitions for their own purposes, but its also convention to name the apparent winner of the election President-Elect.  So... He is President-Elect, just not to the GSA because they have to follow their regulations.  But make no mistake, Biden has won the election.  There is no Kraken coming with terabytes of firehose data.  Trump lost, he is just so immature and narcissistic that he won't admit it publicly.

All hail the new God-Emperor Biden!  4 years may he reign!

He won by a landslide!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 16, 2020, 05:03:05 PM
Do Jody Hise and the GSA determine who the president is?

Of course not.  It's a democracy, despite what the Trump campaign wants.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 05:11:26 PM
It doesn't matter if people are calling him the President-Elect. He's not the President-Elect.

OK.
Even if you're technically correct, so what?
What is your actual point here?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 05:15:14 PM
Do Jody Hise and the GSA determine who the president is?

Of course not.  It's a democracy, despite what the Trump campaign wants.

Precisely. The GSA 'ascertains' whether to consider the candidate the "President Elect" or not for their sole purpose of providing transition funding and resources. They have yet to formally ascertain this. And good for them. I have no idea what Tom is trying to make of this. That Biden shouldn't be printing placards that say "President Elect" on them because the GSA hasn't recognized that designation yet? If that's his issue, well then so be it. It doesn't change the fact that Biden is our President. Although I know he wishes it would. Desperation on full display.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 05:18:39 PM
I can't begin to imagine why Trump is so desperately trying to cling to power...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54716550
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman2020 on November 16, 2020, 05:18:59 PM


All hail the new God-Emperor Biden!  4 years may he reign!

He won by a landslide!

Praise be unto him and to all those who bask in the glorious light cast down from he unto us. Join me and gaze upon our new supreme overlord, for he is good. And let him smell unto us and our children, for we smell good. And may he strip from us the burdens of our Christianity and replace it with the satanic praise for paedophilia that Grant's him life, so that we may sustain him too, for he is good.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 05:22:59 PM
Opportunity for a cross-over episode of 2 conspiracy theories here

https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/how-do-astronauts-vote-space
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 16, 2020, 07:26:50 PM
...precedent set by President Clinton

Since when do you listen to or accept anything Clinton says or does? :P