[Rama Set]

The quote you provided does not say that they invetstigated the particular claims made. They did machine forensic audits on Dominion? Really? Where?

this is one of the perils of letting other people do research for you instead of doing it yourself.

https://apnews.com/article/barr-no-widespread-election-fraud-b1f1488796c9a98c4b1a9061a6c7f49d

Barr didn’t name Powell specifically but said: “There’s been one assertion that would be systemic fraud and that would be the claim that machines were programmed essentially to skew the election results. And the DHS and DOJ have looked into that, and so far, we haven’t seen anything to substantiate that.”
[...]
“Most claims of fraud are very particularized to a particular set of circumstances or actors or conduct. ... And those have been run down; they are being run down,” Barr said. “Some have been broad and potentially cover a few thousand votes. They have been followed up on.”

Nope. Read your quote. It certainly does not say that they seized machines and conducted a forensic audit. It says that they "looked into" it, which could mean various things.

It means they looked in to whether or not machines skewed votes. Are you claiming the DOJ doesn’t know how to investigate the fraud that was alleged?

[Tom Bishop]

Trump was the top law enforcement official of the executive branch (which includes the Justice Department) during the election,

"They are saying what a wonderful job the Trump administration did in making 2020 the most secure election ever. Actually this is true"
- Donald J. Trump.

Please stop being disingenuous and quote him in full. A vault can be secure but still broken into by nefarious criminals.

"For years the Dems have been preaching how unsafe and rigged our elections have been. Now they are saying what a wonderful job the Trump Administration did in making 2020 the most secure election ever. Actually this is true, except for what the Democrats did. Rigged Election!"

The top law enforcement official was clearly saying that the election was rigged here.

The quote you provided does not say that they invetstigated the particular claims made. They did machine forensic audits on Dominion? Really? Where?

this is one of the perils of letting other people do research for you instead of doing it yourself.

https://apnews.com/article/barr-no-widespread-election-fraud-b1f1488796c9a98c4b1a9061a6c7f49d

Barr didn’t name Powell specifically but said: “There’s been one assertion that would be systemic fraud and that would be the claim that machines were programmed essentially to skew the election results. And the DHS and DOJ have looked into that, and so far, we haven’t seen anything to substantiate that.”
[...]
“Most claims of fraud are very particularized to a particular set of circumstances or actors or conduct. ... And those have been run down; they are being run down,” Barr said. “Some have been broad and potentially cover a few thousand votes. They have been followed up on.”

Nope. Read your quote. It certainly does not say that they seized machines and conducted a forensic audit. It says that they "looked into" it, which could mean various things.

It means they looked in to whether or not machines skewed votes. Are you claiming the DOJ doesn’t know how to investigate the fraud that was alleged?

If you say that you couldn't find your keys in your house does it mean that the keys are not in your house? No. This is a negative form of evidence.

There is no claim that they seized the machines, conducted a forensic audit, or any of that.

If you want to prove that Biden is the legitimate president then you need to provide positive evidence supporting his win, rather than the weak level of negative evidence and excuses that you are providing.

[AATW]

If you want to prove that Biden is the legitimate president then you need to provide positive evidence supporting his win

No. You need to provide proof that he isn't. You are the one alleging fraud.
Multiple audits and recounts have shown that to be false.
60 court cases were brought and not one found any evidence which stood up to scrutiny.
And you have repeatedly dodged the question about why the Democrats would "steal" the Presidential election but actually lose ground in the Senate one which were on the same ballots.

[JSS]

If you want to prove that Biden is the legitimate president then you need to provide positive evidence supporting his win, rather than the weak level of negative evidence and excuses that you are providing.

The proof is in the 81 million votes Biden got, and the 74 million that Trump got.  That's seven million pieces of direct evidence that he won.

Plenty of audits were carried out, many hand-counted the ballots so there could be no machine tampering.

There simply is no evidence that there was any large scale fraud, or we would have seen it in the near 100 court cases Trump supporters filed and lost. Every recount has shown the vote totals to be accurate, every one.

Nobody has been able to show any evidence that supports Trump winning, and while absence of evidence isn't proof there isn't any... until someone actually finds evidence Biden cheated, he is our legitimate President.

[Rama Set]

Trump was the top law enforcement official of the executive branch (which includes the Justice Department) during the election,

"They are saying what a wonderful job the Trump administration did in making 2020 the most secure election ever. Actually this is true"
- Donald J. Trump.

Please stop being disingenuous and quote him in full. A vault can be secure but still broken into by nefarious criminals.

"For years the Dems have been preaching how unsafe and rigged our elections have been. Now they are saying what a wonderful job the Trump Administration did in making 2020 the most secure election ever. Actually this is true, except for what the Democrats did. Rigged Election!"

The top law enforcement official was clearly saying that the election was rigged here.

Trump is not lawyer or trained in law enforcement.  Bill Barr is a lawyer with decades of experience.  Trump was pursuing naked self-interest, Bill Barr sacrificed his position to tell Trump his fraud claims were bull shit.  It is very very obvious that Bill Barr is more qualified and more trustworthy.

It means they looked in to whether or not machines skewed votes. Are you claiming the DOJ doesn’t know how to investigate the fraud that was alleged?

If you say that you couldn't find your keys in your house does it mean that the keys are not in your house? No. This is a negative form of evidence.

There is no claim that they seized the machines, conducted a forensic audit, or any of that.

They claimed they investigated whether or not machines were used to switch votes.  Please show me your positive evidence that they did not do a thorough investigation.

If you want to prove that Biden is the legitimate president then you need to provide positive evidence supporting his win, rather than the weak level of negative evidence and excuses that you are providing.

Exhibit #1 - ~81,000,000 votes for Biden v ~74,000,000 a clear margin of victory.
Exhibit #2 - 100% of audits of election results upheld the certified results.

You can continue to lie and say we have not provided positive evidence, but that is on you.

[Tom Bishop]

If you want to prove that Biden is the legitimate president then you need to provide positive evidence supporting his win

No. You need to provide proof that he isn't. You are the one alleging fraud.

There is plenty of evidence of fraud. Visit https://hereistheevidence.com/

You can't tell me that there is no evidence here. Stop being disingenuous.

Multiple audits and recounts have shown that to be false.

Recounts organized by the same people committing the fraud, and who would face stiff penalties if caught. Yeah right.

Audits haven't gone all that well in the Democrat's favor.

60 court cases were brought and not one found any evidence which stood up to scrutiny.

Here you are admitting that you don't know about the bulk of those cases:

I don't know about the bulk of them.

If you don't know about them, why are you making this claim about them? Others here have already gave up on the courts argument.

And you have repeatedly dodged the question about why the Democrats would "steal" the Presidential election but actually lose ground in the Senate one which were on the same ballots.

People pay to win on either side. Money from lobbyists, governments, whoever for whatever.

Also possible that there wasn't enough money or org financers to convince them to influence some things.

[Tom Bishop]

Trump is not lawyer or trained in law enforcement.  Bill Barr is a lawyer with decades of experience.  Trump was pursuing naked self-interest, Bill Barr sacrificed his position to tell Trump his fraud claims were bull shit.  It is very very obvious that Bill Barr is more qualified and more trustworthy.

Bill Barr doesn't sound too competent here:

https://nationalfile.com/subversion-bill-barr-told-trump-election-fraud-was-bullst-protected-blm-rioters-from-insurrection-act-and-blocked-snowden-pardon/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=subversion-bill-barr-told-trump-election-fraud-was-bullst



He wasn't even watching the hearings.

From the Axios link:



If you're going to claim to be an election fraud authority, it doesn't look too good if you aren't even watching the state hearings on election fraud.

Trump's lawyers say that Barr didn't follow up on evidence:

https://nationalfile.com/trump-team-slams-barr-for-denying-election-fraud-says-he-lacks-any-knowledge-or-investigation/

[Rama Set]

Trump is not lawyer or trained in law enforcement.  Bill Barr is a lawyer with decades of experience.  Trump was pursuing naked self-interest, Bill Barr sacrificed his position to tell Trump his fraud claims were bull shit.  It is very very obvious that Bill Barr is more qualified and more trustworthy.

Bill Barr doesn't sound too competent here:

https://nationalfile.com/subversion-bill-barr-told-trump-election-fraud-was-bullst-protected-blm-rioters-from-insurrection-act-and-blocked-snowden-pardon/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=subversion-bill-barr-told-trump-election-fraud-was-bullst



He wasn't even watching the hearings.

Watching a political hearing isn't an indication of competence in law enforcement.

If you're going to claim to be an election fraud authority, it doesn't look too good if you aren't even watching the state hearings on election fraud.

Says the internet rando.

Trump's lawyers say that Barr didn't follow up on evidence:

https://nationalfile.com/trump-team-slams-barr-for-denying-election-fraud-says-he-lacks-any-knowledge-or-investigation/

How would Trump's lawyers know what the DOJ had investigated?  Where is the evidence they didn't follow up on evidence?

[Tom Bishop]

A team of lawyers would hear something if their witnesses were being investigated and their cases were being followed up on. Pretty ridiculous to suggest that an agency would investigate without asking your team a single question about the details of the case/witnesses/etc. 

Trump also said that they were inactive. DOJ is part of the Executive Branch. DOJ reports to the President. President says that they were missing in action.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-doj-missing-in-action-alleged-election-fraud



Asleep at the wheel:

https://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/world-news/trump-campaign-adviser-says-doj-asleep-at-the-wheel-not-forceful-enough-with-voter-fraud-investigations/



No 'overt moves':

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3909944/posts



I don't see evidence that they did much of anything.

[stack]

A team lawyers would hear something if their witnesses were being investigated and their cases were being followed up on. Pretty ridiculous to suggest that an agency would investigate without asking your team a single question about the details of the case/witnesses/etc. 

Trump also said that they were inactive. DOJ is part of the Executive Branch. DOJ reports to the President. President says that they were missing in action.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/poll-watcher-submits-affidavit-alleging-houston-judge-election-staff-voter-fraud

Was Bill Barr the only person in the DOJ actually investigating? I wasn't aware that he personally handled all of the DOJ's investigations himself.  Or did, you know, he have some other folks that might do the actual investigating bit?

[Tom Bishop]

Time Magazine bragging that the election was influenced by a "cabal of powerful people" who changed rules, laws, voting systems, and steered media coverage.

https://i.imgur.com/3MRxDYM.jpg

[Rama Set]

ITT: Tom is surprised America is controlled by corporate interests.

[Tom Bishop]

ITT: Tom is surprised America is controlled by corporate interests.

If you are agreeing with the Times article that a powerful corporate cabal "saved the 2020 election" by changing laws, rules, voting systems and molding media coverage then the premise that this was a free and fair election is moot.

Why should elections be orchestrated by corporate interests?

[JSS]

Time Magazine bragging that the election was influenced by a "cabal of powerful people" who changed rules, laws, voting systems, and steered media coverage.

https://i.imgur.com/3MRxDYM.jpg

Your own source contradicts you.  Right after the part it underlines it says...

"They were not rigging the election"

If you only look at keywords and ignore the context and meaning of things it will only lead to being confused. You have to read, comprehend, and understand a source and not just cherry-pick a few words or a sentence, or copy-paste a meme.

Nothing in that entire article indicates any fraud was committed, or anything illegal was done.

Laws were changed.  Yes, that's how government works, they pass laws.

[AATW]

You can't tell me that there is no evidence here.

I didn't tell you that.
I told you, and keep telling you, that not all evidence is created equal.
Someone making a claim is evidence, sure. But they had 60 court cases to present some evidence of fraud and failed to present anything which was credible. Which is why Joe Biden is in the White House right now.
That website, which I've seen before, is basically a box set of all the crazy stuff you've been coming out with for the last few months and kept telling us would flip the election any day now.
We told you that wouldn't happen.
It didn't happen.
Soz.

[Tom Bishop]

Nothing in that entire article indicates any fraud was committed, or anything illegal was done.

Oh okay, a powerful corporate cabal should be inherently trusted to manipulate the election of a country from top to bottom, "touching every aspect of the election", in a fair manner. 

Please double down on how corporate cabals should be implicitly trusted. I am interested in hearing more about that.

[Rama Set]

ITT: Tom is surprised America is controlled by corporate interests.

If you are agreeing with the Times article that a powerful corporate cabal "saved the 2020 election" by changing laws, rules, voting systems and molding media coverage then the premise that this was a free and fair election is moot.

Why should elections be orchestrated by corporate interests?

That’s a great question. I’ve long held that the amount of sway corporate interests have on government is a problem that transcends party lines. Both parties cow-tow to big money. It’s kind of funny that you all of a sudden want to sound the alarm yet have remained silent on people like the Koch brothers and the influence they wield on the right.

Nothing in that entire article indicates any fraud was committed, or anything illegal was done.

Oh okay, a powerful corporate cabal should be inherently trusted to manipulate the election of a country from top to bottom, "touching every aspect of the election", in a fair manner. 

Please double down on how corporate cabals should be implicitly trusted. I am interested in hearing more about that.

So you are saying he should form a belief without evidence. No one is surprised you would think that.

[Dr Van Nostrand]

There is plenty of evidence of fraud. Visit https://hereistheevidence.com/

You can't tell me that there is no evidence here. Stop being disingenuous.

Yes, and here is plenty of evidence for Bigfoot.

https://data.world/timothyrenner/bfro-sightings-data


Despite these mountains of evidence not one molecule, hair or trace of any real Bigfoot ever.

[Rama Set]

Yeah but does Benford’s law predict Bigfoot? Checkmate, atheist.

[JSS]

Nothing in that entire article indicates any fraud was committed, or anything illegal was done.

Oh okay, a powerful corporate cabal should be inherently trusted to manipulate the election of a country from top to bottom, "touching every aspect of the election", in a fair manner. 

Please double down on how corporate cabals should be implicitly trusted. I am interested in hearing more about that.

Where did I say that 'corporate cabals' should be implicitly trusted?  Please read my post again, carefully this time.

It seems the entirety of your complaint here is this group being called a 'corporate cabal'.  Again, you are focusing on a word and disregarding the entire rest of the article.

You are acting as if there are no 'corporate cabals' working for the right wing trying to get laws passed.  The GOP has been "touching every aspect of the election" for decades.  Are you going to complain about them too and use their existence as proof Trump cheated in 2016?

Do you think right-wing corporate cabals are good? You seem to think so. Why do you think that?