*

Offline Baby Thork

  • *
  • Posts: 2183
  • I am Baby Thork. Hear me roar!
    • View Profile
Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« on: June 17, 2019, 11:06:52 PM »
There is a fun video going around the internet, where a Boston Dynamics robot fights back.



And they just released the making of the video.



And this got me thinking about the real Boston Dynamics videos. I mean honestly, they are the same kind of trollish green screen.

The feet can be a give away ... they slide when they should be planted. The audio is often out of wack and the movement just doesn't look right ... usually too fast.


This thing doesn't look right. Especially around the 33-37 second mark. It is just too fast. And of course this is an incredibly stupid design for a robot that moves boxes. Why on earth would you make it look like an ostrich? And it doesn't do anything else.

All their robots look ... well just not like robots and not in a good next level way. In a CGI not real way.

They have 10 products now ... and no customers.
https://www.bostondynamics.com/robots

No one has ever bought a Boston Dynamics robot. So what is the business model?

Google sold Boston a while back. I have to wonder why? If Boston is telling lies about its robots ... maybe Theranos and the spectre of being accused of wire fraud (Alphabet is listed) made them drop it.

Anyway ... am I on my own or does anyone else think there is something very suspect about Boston? They have very very little content anywhere and it is nearly all just a few curated youtube videos.


Look at this thing jumping. If seems to float or hang in the air just before it lands some of the jumps. Like the physics isn't quite there. Look at and focus on its feet when it jumps. They are the only bit where the CGI has to interact with the room ... and this is where I think I see continuity issues.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

FYI you can step through youtube videos using the < and > keys on your keyboard to look frame by frame. Some of their videos with the dog thing look very weird like this. Again, focus on the feet.

In this video check out 1:27 ... step through the video and look at the back feet when its front foot touches the banana skin. It throws itself over like Neymar. It just doesn't look real.


« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 11:16:47 PM by Baby Thork »
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2019, 11:53:39 PM »
Really Thork? Do a little research for once. Boston Dynamics isn't even really a business, it's basically an R&D division. They were an MIT spinoff that did work for the US government under DARPA grants and actually made a robot for them called the BigDog way back in 2005. Not sure how you can fool DARPA.
And even if they were fake, why would Softbank buy them up for millions in 2017 and invest millions more into them this year?

Sounds to me like you got drunk while watching too many of their robot videos.
We are smarter than those scientists.
I see multiple contradicting explanations. You guys should have a pow-wow and figure out how your model works.

*

Offline Baby Thork

  • *
  • Posts: 2183
  • I am Baby Thork. Hear me roar!
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2019, 12:04:19 AM »
Maybe the thing that people like the military was investing in, was the CGI for hoaxes. But then newer better stuff like deep fakes came out with the new AI stuff and softbank (a bunch of bankers, not tech people) have bought up a pup.

I mean ... forget the motives. Does this look real? Is there any independent video of say a news reporter or youtuber visiting their factory and shooting footage of a robot in the car park or something? I can find zero 3rd party footage. Everything is just what Boston put out.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 09:31:38 AM by Baby Thork »
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2019, 01:09:23 AM »
Maybe the thing that people like the military was investing in, was the CGI for hoaxes. But then newer better stuff like deep fakes came out with the new AI stuff and softback (a bunch of bankers, not tech people) have bought up a pup.

I mean ... forget the motives. Does this look real? Is there any independent video of say a news reporter or youtuber visiting their factory and shooting footage of a robot in the car park or something? I can find zero 3rd party footage. Everything is just what Boston put out.

Well Thork, I have to hand it to you, but you are right on this, there is no third party anything on Boston Dynamics. But that doesn't mean they're entirely fake. These were some articles I found in my search for 3rd party stuff, and they do a good job breaking stuff down.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2016/feb/25/how-real-is-that-atlas-robot-boston-dynamics-video

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/boston-dynamics-robotics-roboticist-how-to-watch

Basically, it's obvious the videos they put out are not a true representation of their robots. And why should they be? They're a private company maintaining an image, putting out an unedited video showing the true capabilities of their robots would destroy that image and their real progress. It's obvious they have human controllers and preprogrammed commands and cut out mistakes to make their robots seem better than they really are. Absence of third party footage does not mean that what Boston Dynamics puts out is necessarily CGI. The founder of Boston Dynamics did bring out Spot for his TED talk. That didn't look like CGI to me, not sure how you do it in front of a live audience. Could they be touching up their youtube videos? Most probably. Are they fake? Not likely.
We are smarter than those scientists.
I see multiple contradicting explanations. You guys should have a pow-wow and figure out how your model works.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2019, 06:10:21 AM »
Is it like fake fake? In that it's not even seated in reality and all CGI? Or is it like fake, enhanced, aided by CGI? Or is it just real?

Dunno. But as the Wired article stated, "But even Atlas' backflip only requires "a very crude calculation to make the jump" he continues. "Then when it lands, it makes the corrections. It doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough."

So there's this thing where a BD robot can actually be sub-par in terms of accuracy in comparison to other robotic endeavors. Which is ironically creepy; it can actually be as clumsy as we are and still scare the shit out of us.

idk Thork. Personally, I would say they are pretty 'real', human guided machines certainly sans autonomy. Cabled and guided by humans. Funding/Motive? DARPA, US military, usual suspects. That's about it.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

Macarios

Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2019, 06:50:10 AM »
It simply doesn't need any CGI. You can always program any behavior into robot's controlere and record whatever you want directly.

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 1391
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2019, 08:29:35 AM »
If you were going to green screen, wouldn't you leave the messy dumpsters out of it ...?

==============================
==============================
Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 1391
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2019, 08:33:35 AM »
This thing doesn't look right.   (So what?)

Why on earth would you make it look like an ostrich?   (Why not?)

No one has ever bought a Boston Dynamics robot.  (So what?)

... am I on my own (Probably)

They have very very little content anywhere and it is nearly all just a few curated youtube videos. (Lack of video is no proof of anything)
==============================
==============================
Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

Offline ChrisTP

  • *
  • Posts: 446
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2019, 10:25:06 AM »
Quote
Is Boston Dynamics fake?
No. The robots are physical and plenty of people have seen them. Also robotics and AI are becoming very advanced and at this point it's almost like their robots are lagging behind. AI by quite a bit. I see no reason why you'd think these bulky, barely practically functional machines would need to be faked.

Also the robot with the long necks moving boxes seem pretty perfectly shaped for their function... Why do you question that?
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

*

Offline Baby Thork

  • *
  • Posts: 2183
  • I am Baby Thork. Hear me roar!
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2019, 10:40:55 AM »
Really Thork? Do a little research for once.

Well Thork, I have to hand it to you, but you are right on this, there is no third party anything on Boston Dynamics.

 ::)

Basically, it's obvious the videos they put out are not a true representation of their robots. And why should they be? They're a private company maintaining an image, putting out an unedited video showing the true capabilities of their robots would destroy that image and their real progress.
Putting out videos of robots slipping on banana skins is a true representation? Every video is gimmicky. Every single one. There isn't one that is a straight explanation of technologies.

And where are the press? I'm expecting "Hi, I'm Chip Chapley reporting for 'I've Got This'. Today, I'm here at Boston Dynamics for a first look at [insert new robot name]. I can shove it, or encourage it to follow me. ... etc etc".
There is nothing. No journalism. Just curated press releases.

Where is the Steve Jobs standing on stage? The Blizzcon, the Apple WWDC, the Microsoft, Facebook, AMD, Nvidia anyone who is anyone standing on stage once a year showing off your new product in front of an audience?

Why does not one single soul get to see their robots in the flesh? How hard to go to a congress and do a keynote with a robot on stage? Nothing. Literally nothing. Just a 2 min youtube video.

I mean imagine ... you design a robot like the one below.


And that's it. All that time, effort, money for a 97 second youtube video. That's all they did with it.

As for the Ted talk ... I'm reviewing. I'm not sure that is a real Ted Talk rather its a mock up of a Ted Talk. I'll investigate that one further but there are bits that look very suspect.

This thing doesn't look right.   (So what?)
So that's what raised my suspicions.

Why on earth would you make it look like an ostrich?   (Why not?)
Because it isn't going to be useful.

No one has ever bought a Boston Dynamics robot.  (So what?)
Odd business that designs robots and never sells any. It has been going since 1992. That's 27 years of building robots that no one ever sees or buys or that come to market.

... am I on my own (Probably)
Well you can fool most of the people most of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

They have very very little content anywhere and it is nearly all just a few curated youtube videos. (Lack of video is no proof of anything)
When you claim to be making the best robots on earth ... the burden of proof is really on you to prove that you do. Not the rest of the world to take you at face value.

The robots are physical and plenty of people have seen them.
Have they though. I mean have they really? Because I have never seen a 3rd party individual say "I saw this one robot from Boston Dynamics and it was like this". There is no anecdotal mention of their existence anywhere.
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 1391
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2019, 10:50:12 AM »
The robots are physical and plenty of people have seen them.
Have they though. I mean have they really?

Do you think the people in the video at #6 are real or CGI?

How about the terrier? Real dog, or CGI?


"I have never seen a 3rd party individual say "I saw this one robot from Boston Dynamics and it was like this""

Unless you routinely move in circles where robots are designed or built, why would you be likely to hear this?


"There is no anecdotal mention of their existence anywhere."

Come on, now. There's no way you have actually LOOKED "everywhere" ...
==============================
==============================
Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2019, 11:09:51 AM »
You've gone full Tin Foil Hat on this one, Thork.
To what end do you think this is all being faked?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 1391
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2019, 11:19:43 AM »
Plenty of job vacancies there, Thork.

You could always infiltrate them and make your name through the big reveal ....

https://www.linkedin.com/search/results/all/?keywords=boston%20dynamics&origin=GLOBAL_SEARCH_HEADER
==============================
==============================
Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

Offline ChrisTP

  • *
  • Posts: 446
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2019, 11:25:29 AM »
Quote
Have they though. I mean have they really? Because I have never seen a 3rd party individual say "I saw this one robot from Boston Dynamics and it was like this". There is no anecdotal mention of their existence anywhere.
here's a third party tech media company showing one of the robots to people;



Here's the ted talk on the official website, TED is also a third party. This is also done on a stage in front of people;

https://www.ted.com/talks/marc_raibert_meet_spot_the_robot_dog_that_can_run_hop_and_open_doors

So yea people have seen it, third party media has recorded it. Heck even the employees at BD admit their robots are still pretty clunky and fall down a lot. They aren't even remotely ready for real world use yet because of how slow, clunky and power consuming they are. The only impressive thing about these robots are the AI, and advanced AI is not hard to believe.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 1391
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2019, 12:16:47 PM »
This thing doesn't look right. Especially around the 33-37 second mark. It is just too fast. And of course this is an incredibly stupid design for a robot that moves boxes. Why on earth would you make it look like an ostrich?

Now that I've watched the video...

So that the tail can independently move, to counterbalance the (varying) loads that are picked up at the head? Move the tail outward, the torque around the centre of gravity increases. Pull it in, it decreases. The whole idea being to keep the thing balanced.

It's what humans and animals naturally do, and it's clearly what they're trying to mimic, probably for the practical reason I stated above.
==============================
==============================
Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

*

Offline markjo

  • Purgatory
  • *
  • Posts: 3852
  • Zetetic Council runner-up
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2019, 01:36:10 PM »
No one has ever bought a Boston Dynamics robot.  (So what?)
Odd business that designs robots and never sells any. It has been going since 1992. That's 27 years of building robots that no one ever sees or buys or that come to market.
Not so odd when you consider the fact that their biggest customer is the US military.  It seems to me that they're more of an R&D company than an end user product company.  The military does a lot of research into technology that might not hit the battlefield for 10-20 years (if ever), and this is most likely part of that program.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2019, 03:18:16 PM »
Not fake... I saw those robots acting in person.  Amazing technology.

*

Offline WellRoundedIndividual

  • *
  • Posts: 605
  • Proverbs 13:20 is extremely relevant today.
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2019, 04:40:38 PM »
I've been programming industrial robots for over 13 years. Been to robotics conferences, etc. These are all doable, achievable things. To perfection? No. I have seen some pretty amazing technology just on the commercial/industrial side. (yes, yes, I know - authority fallacy, blah blah blah).
BobLawBlah.

Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2019, 05:27:19 PM »
No one has ever bought a Boston Dynamics robot.  (So what?)
Odd business that designs robots and never sells any. It has been going since 1992. That's 27 years of building robots that no one ever sees or buys or that come to market.
Not so odd when you consider the fact that their biggest customer is the US military.  It seems to me that they're more of an R&D company than an end user product company.  The military does a lot of research into technology that might not hit the battlefield for 10-20 years (if ever), and this is most likely part of that program.

Let's not forget that Boston Dynamics is planning to sell commercial versions of their robots starting with the Spotmini with production starting as soon as next month.
https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/18/boston-dynamics-debuts-the-production-version-of-spotmini/
We are smarter than those scientists.
I see multiple contradicting explanations. You guys should have a pow-wow and figure out how your model works.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 1254
    • View Profile
Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2019, 10:45:33 PM »
Why does not one single soul get to see their robots in the flesh? How hard to go to a congress and do a keynote with a robot on stage? Nothing. Literally nothing. Just a 2 min youtube video.

I'm not sure what has got your knickers all in a twist. A bunch of people have seen them. I found these in about 1 minute:

Around the 24 minute mark they demo spot at some Robotics convention:



Live demo of Atlas from a couple of years ago. (Pretty funny, it falls off the stage at the end):

Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.