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Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Investigations => Topic started by: Baby Thork on June 17, 2019, 11:06:52 PM

Title: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Baby Thork on June 17, 2019, 11:06:52 PM
There is a fun video going around the internet, where a Boston Dynamics robot fights back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKjCWfuvYxQ

And they just released the making of the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIlEYGFBECU

And this got me thinking about the real Boston Dynamics videos. I mean honestly, they are the same kind of trollish green screen.

The feet can be a give away ... they slide when they should be planted. The audio is often out of wack and the movement just doesn't look right ... usually too fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iV_hB08Uns
This thing doesn't look right. Especially around the 33-37 second mark. It is just too fast. And of course this is an incredibly stupid design for a robot that moves boxes. Why on earth would you make it look like an ostrich? And it doesn't do anything else.

All their robots look ... well just not like robots and not in a good next level way. In a CGI not real way.

They have 10 products now ... and no customers.
https://www.bostondynamics.com/robots

No one has ever bought a Boston Dynamics robot. So what is the business model?

Google sold Boston a while back. I have to wonder why? If Boston is telling lies about its robots ... maybe Theranos and the spectre of being accused of wire fraud (Alphabet is listed) made them drop it.

Anyway ... am I on my own or does anyone else think there is something very suspect about Boston? They have very very little content anywhere and it is nearly all just a few curated youtube videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRj34o4hN4I
Look at this thing jumping. If seems to float or hang in the air just before it lands some of the jumps. Like the physics isn't quite there. Look at and focus on its feet when it jumps. They are the only bit where the CGI has to interact with the room ... and this is where I think I see continuity issues.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

FYI you can step through youtube videos using the < and > keys on your keyboard to look frame by frame. Some of their videos with the dog thing look very weird like this. Again, focus on the feet.

In this video check out 1:27 ... step through the video and look at the back feet when its front foot touches the banana skin. It throws itself over like Neymar. It just doesn't look real.
https://youtu.be/tf7IEVTDjng?t=87

Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Bastian Baasch on June 17, 2019, 11:53:39 PM
Really Thork? Do a little research for once. Boston Dynamics isn't even really a business, it's basically an R&D division. They were an MIT spinoff that did work for the US government under DARPA grants and actually made a robot for them called the BigDog way back in 2005. Not sure how you can fool DARPA.
And even if they were fake, why would Softbank buy them up for millions in 2017 and invest millions more into them this year?

Sounds to me like you got drunk while watching too many of their robot videos.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Baby Thork on June 18, 2019, 12:04:19 AM
Maybe the thing that people like the military was investing in, was the CGI for hoaxes. But then newer better stuff like deep fakes came out with the new AI stuff and softbank (a bunch of bankers, not tech people) have bought up a pup.

I mean ... forget the motives. Does this look real? Is there any independent video of say a news reporter or youtuber visiting their factory and shooting footage of a robot in the car park or something? I can find zero 3rd party footage. Everything is just what Boston put out.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Bastian Baasch on June 18, 2019, 01:09:23 AM
Maybe the thing that people like the military was investing in, was the CGI for hoaxes. But then newer better stuff like deep fakes came out with the new AI stuff and softback (a bunch of bankers, not tech people) have bought up a pup.

I mean ... forget the motives. Does this look real? Is there any independent video of say a news reporter or youtuber visiting their factory and shooting footage of a robot in the car park or something? I can find zero 3rd party footage. Everything is just what Boston put out.

Well Thork, I have to hand it to you, but you are right on this, there is no third party anything on Boston Dynamics. But that doesn't mean they're entirely fake. These were some articles I found in my search for 3rd party stuff, and they do a good job breaking stuff down.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2016/feb/25/how-real-is-that-atlas-robot-boston-dynamics-video (https://www.theguardian.com/science/the-lay-scientist/2016/feb/25/how-real-is-that-atlas-robot-boston-dynamics-video)

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/boston-dynamics-robotics-roboticist-how-to-watch (https://www.wired.co.uk/article/boston-dynamics-robotics-roboticist-how-to-watch)

Basically, it's obvious the videos they put out are not a true representation of their robots. And why should they be? They're a private company maintaining an image, putting out an unedited video showing the true capabilities of their robots would destroy that image and their real progress. It's obvious they have human controllers and preprogrammed commands and cut out mistakes to make their robots seem better than they really are. Absence of third party footage does not mean that what Boston Dynamics puts out is necessarily CGI. The founder of Boston Dynamics did bring out Spot for his TED talk. That didn't look like CGI to me, not sure how you do it in front of a live audience. Could they be touching up their youtube videos? Most probably. Are they fake? Not likely.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: stack on June 18, 2019, 06:10:21 AM
Is it like fake fake? In that it's not even seated in reality and all CGI? Or is it like fake, enhanced, aided by CGI? Or is it just real?

Dunno. But as the Wired article stated, "But even Atlas' backflip only requires "a very crude calculation to make the jump" he continues. "Then when it lands, it makes the corrections. It doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough."

So there's this thing where a BD robot can actually be sub-par in terms of accuracy in comparison to other robotic endeavors. Which is ironically creepy; it can actually be as clumsy as we are and still scare the shit out of us.

idk Thork. Personally, I would say they are pretty 'real', human guided machines certainly sans autonomy. Cabled and guided by humans. Funding/Motive? DARPA, US military, usual suspects. That's about it.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Macarios on June 18, 2019, 06:50:10 AM
It simply doesn't need any CGI. You can always program any behavior into robot's controlere and record whatever you want directly.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Tumeni on June 18, 2019, 08:29:35 AM
If you were going to green screen, wouldn't you leave the messy dumpsters out of it ...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEg6oeazTNY
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Tumeni on June 18, 2019, 08:33:35 AM
This thing doesn't look right.   (So what?)

Why on earth would you make it look like an ostrich?   (Why not?)

No one has ever bought a Boston Dynamics robot.  (So what?)

... am I on my own (Probably)

They have very very little content anywhere and it is nearly all just a few curated youtube videos. (Lack of video is no proof of anything)
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: ChrisTP on June 18, 2019, 10:25:06 AM
Quote
Is Boston Dynamics fake?
No. The robots are physical and plenty of people have seen them. Also robotics and AI are becoming very advanced and at this point it's almost like their robots are lagging behind. AI by quite a bit. I see no reason why you'd think these bulky, barely practically functional machines would need to be faked.

Also the robot with the long necks moving boxes seem pretty perfectly shaped for their function... Why do you question that?
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Baby Thork on June 18, 2019, 10:40:55 AM
Really Thork? Do a little research for once.

Well Thork, I have to hand it to you, but you are right on this, there is no third party anything on Boston Dynamics.

 ::)

Basically, it's obvious the videos they put out are not a true representation of their robots. And why should they be? They're a private company maintaining an image, putting out an unedited video showing the true capabilities of their robots would destroy that image and their real progress.
Putting out videos of robots slipping on banana skins is a true representation? Every video is gimmicky. Every single one. There isn't one that is a straight explanation of technologies.

And where are the press? I'm expecting "Hi, I'm Chip Chapley reporting for 'I've Got This'. Today, I'm here at Boston Dynamics for a first look at [insert new robot name]. I can shove it, or encourage it to follow me. ... etc etc".
There is nothing. No journalism. Just curated press releases.

Where is the Steve Jobs standing on stage? The Blizzcon, the Apple WWDC, the Microsoft, Facebook, AMD, Nvidia anyone who is anyone standing on stage once a year showing off your new product in front of an audience?

Why does not one single soul get to see their robots in the flesh? How hard to go to a congress and do a keynote with a robot on stage? Nothing. Literally nothing. Just a 2 min youtube video.

I mean imagine ... you design a robot like the one below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7xvqQeoA8c

And that's it. All that time, effort, money for a 97 second youtube video. That's all they did with it.

As for the Ted talk ... I'm reviewing. I'm not sure that is a real Ted Talk rather its a mock up of a Ted Talk. I'll investigate that one further but there are bits that look very suspect.

This thing doesn't look right.   (So what?)
So that's what raised my suspicions.

Why on earth would you make it look like an ostrich?   (Why not?)
Because it isn't going to be useful.

No one has ever bought a Boston Dynamics robot.  (So what?)
Odd business that designs robots and never sells any. It has been going since 1992. That's 27 years of building robots that no one ever sees or buys or that come to market.

... am I on my own (Probably)
Well you can fool most of the people most of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

They have very very little content anywhere and it is nearly all just a few curated youtube videos. (Lack of video is no proof of anything)
When you claim to be making the best robots on earth ... the burden of proof is really on you to prove that you do. Not the rest of the world to take you at face value.

The robots are physical and plenty of people have seen them.
Have they though. I mean have they really? Because I have never seen a 3rd party individual say "I saw this one robot from Boston Dynamics and it was like this". There is no anecdotal mention of their existence anywhere.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Tumeni on June 18, 2019, 10:50:12 AM
The robots are physical and plenty of people have seen them.
Have they though. I mean have they really?

Do you think the people in the video at #6 are real or CGI?

How about the terrier? Real dog, or CGI?


"I have never seen a 3rd party individual say "I saw this one robot from Boston Dynamics and it was like this""

Unless you routinely move in circles where robots are designed or built, why would you be likely to hear this?


"There is no anecdotal mention of their existence anywhere."

Come on, now. There's no way you have actually LOOKED "everywhere" ...
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on June 18, 2019, 11:09:51 AM
You've gone full Tin Foil Hat on this one, Thork.
To what end do you think this is all being faked?
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Tumeni on June 18, 2019, 11:19:43 AM
Plenty of job vacancies there, Thork.

You could always infiltrate them and make your name through the big reveal ....

https://www.linkedin.com/search/results/all/?keywords=boston%20dynamics&origin=GLOBAL_SEARCH_HEADER (https://www.linkedin.com/search/results/all/?keywords=boston%20dynamics&origin=GLOBAL_SEARCH_HEADER)
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: ChrisTP on June 18, 2019, 11:25:29 AM
Quote
Have they though. I mean have they really? Because I have never seen a 3rd party individual say "I saw this one robot from Boston Dynamics and it was like this". There is no anecdotal mention of their existence anywhere.
here's a third party tech media company showing one of the robots to people;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q0ZC_wDoGI

Here's the ted talk on the official website, TED is also a third party. This is also done on a stage in front of people;

https://www.ted.com/talks/marc_raibert_meet_spot_the_robot_dog_that_can_run_hop_and_open_doors

So yea people have seen it, third party media has recorded it. Heck even the employees at BD admit their robots are still pretty clunky and fall down a lot. They aren't even remotely ready for real world use yet because of how slow, clunky and power consuming they are. The only impressive thing about these robots are the AI, and advanced AI is not hard to believe.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Tumeni on June 18, 2019, 12:16:47 PM
This thing doesn't look right. Especially around the 33-37 second mark. It is just too fast. And of course this is an incredibly stupid design for a robot that moves boxes. Why on earth would you make it look like an ostrich?

Now that I've watched the video...

So that the tail can independently move, to counterbalance the (varying) loads that are picked up at the head? Move the tail outward, the torque around the centre of gravity increases. Pull it in, it decreases. The whole idea being to keep the thing balanced.

It's what humans and animals naturally do, and it's clearly what they're trying to mimic, probably for the practical reason I stated above.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: markjo on June 18, 2019, 01:36:10 PM
No one has ever bought a Boston Dynamics robot.  (So what?)
Odd business that designs robots and never sells any. It has been going since 1992. That's 27 years of building robots that no one ever sees or buys or that come to market.
Not so odd when you consider the fact that their biggest customer is the US military.  It seems to me that they're more of an R&D company than an end user product company.  The military does a lot of research into technology that might not hit the battlefield for 10-20 years (if ever), and this is most likely part of that program.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: spherical on June 18, 2019, 03:18:16 PM
Not fake... I saw those robots acting in person.  Amazing technology.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: WellRoundedIndividual on June 18, 2019, 04:40:38 PM
I've been programming industrial robots for over 13 years. Been to robotics conferences, etc. These are all doable, achievable things. To perfection? No. I have seen some pretty amazing technology just on the commercial/industrial side. (yes, yes, I know - authority fallacy, blah blah blah).
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Bastian Baasch on June 18, 2019, 05:27:19 PM
No one has ever bought a Boston Dynamics robot.  (So what?)
Odd business that designs robots and never sells any. It has been going since 1992. That's 27 years of building robots that no one ever sees or buys or that come to market.
Not so odd when you consider the fact that their biggest customer is the US military.  It seems to me that they're more of an R&D company than an end user product company.  The military does a lot of research into technology that might not hit the battlefield for 10-20 years (if ever), and this is most likely part of that program.

Let's not forget that Boston Dynamics is planning to sell commercial versions of their robots starting with the Spotmini with production starting as soon as next month.
https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/18/boston-dynamics-debuts-the-production-version-of-spotmini/ (https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/18/boston-dynamics-debuts-the-production-version-of-spotmini/)
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: stack on June 18, 2019, 10:45:33 PM
Why does not one single soul get to see their robots in the flesh? How hard to go to a congress and do a keynote with a robot on stage? Nothing. Literally nothing. Just a 2 min youtube video.

I'm not sure what has got your knickers all in a twist. A bunch of people have seen them. I found these in about 1 minute:

Around the 24 minute mark they demo spot at some Robotics convention:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgfiS_nX0Y0

Live demo of Atlas from a couple of years ago. (Pretty funny, it falls off the stage at the end):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxobtWAFh8o
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: ICanScienceThat on June 19, 2019, 08:18:05 AM
It's not unreasonable to imagine that a company would fake videos of their products in order to try to raise capital. Try to convince a bunch of investors that you're way farther along than you really are. There have been cases of fraud like that in recent years. However, in this case, I think the live stage demos are pretty convincing, don't you agree?

Now, are they making footage that shows their robots in the best possible light? Yep. Are they cutting out all the times the robot totally blew it? For sure. Are they totally fake? Naw.

And now. This is the hard one. How hard did you try to answer this question before arguing about it on the internet? I mean, maybe arguing on the internet is fun all by itself. I suppose so. But if you really want the answer, it's available. I guess what I'm saying is, "Instead of just accusing somebody of lying and faking stuff, maybe spend a few minutes looking for independent verification." Right?
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on June 19, 2019, 09:31:45 AM
It's not unreasonable to imagine that a company would fake videos of their products in order to try to raise capital. Try to convince a bunch of investors that you're way farther along than you really are. There have been cases of fraud like that in recent years.
I think it's a bit unreasonable. Yes, I'm sure they are showing the robots in their best light and cutting out the times they fall on their arses (do robots have arses?)
But it's quite a leap to assert that the whole video is fake or composite...I think that mindset is interesting.
No actual evidence of fakery has been provided. Just a vague assertion that it "looks fake". What does that mean? That's completely subjective. On what basis is that being claimed? Where's the evidence?
This is my issue with the people claiming that space travel/the moon landings are fake. It's always people who clearly have no understanding of the subject and no qualifications or experience in photo/video editing or effects. They just make vague assertions that it "looks fake".

Boston Dynamics do seem to have some impressive kit and they clearly haven't seen any of the Terminator documentaries, but I suspect the tech they show off in their videos is nowhere near ready for commercial use, let along in people's homes. The robot butler is still a pipe dream for now.

Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: ICanScienceThat on June 19, 2019, 03:03:21 PM
It's not unreasonable to imagine that a company would fake videos of their products in order to try to raise capital. Try to convince a bunch of investors that you're way farther along than you really are. There have been cases of fraud like that in recent years.
I think it's a bit unreasonable. Yes, I'm sure they are showing the robots in their best light and cutting out the times they fall on their arses (do robots have arses?)
But it's quite a leap to assert that the whole video is fake or composite...I think that mindset is interesting.
No actual evidence of fakery has been provided. Just a vague assertion that it "looks fake". What does that mean? That's completely subjective. On what basis is that being claimed? Where's the evidence?
This is my issue with the people claiming that space travel/the moon landings are fake. It's always people who clearly have no understanding of the subject and no qualifications or experience in photo/video editing or effects. They just make vague assertions that it "looks fake".

Boston Dynamics do seem to have some impressive kit and they clearly haven't seen any of the Terminator documentaries, but I suspect the tech they show off in their videos is nowhere near ready for commercial use, let along in people's homes. The robot butler is still a pipe dream for now.
I argue that it is not unreasonable to imagine a company faking stuff. It would be foolish to discount the idea without research. Google "Theranos" for a recent example of this.
That said, I agree with the rest. It is one thing to imagine wrongdoing. The correct action would be to look into it. The part that bugs me is the jumping straight into the speculation and accusation.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Baby Thork on June 19, 2019, 05:11:12 PM
The part that bugs me is the jumping straight into the speculation and accusation.
You mean having the audacity to ask the question? To dare use a question mark in my OP? To even contemplate whether something that seems extraordinary might not be all that meets the eye? You've come to the wrong site, buddy.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: ICanScienceThat on June 20, 2019, 05:40:16 AM
The part that bugs me is the jumping straight into the speculation and accusation.
You mean having the audacity to ask the question? To dare use a question mark in my OP? To even contemplate whether something that seems extraordinary might not be all that meets the eye? You've come to the wrong site, buddy.

Consider... perhaps that's why I came to this site?

But I DO think I've overstated my position on this. Please allow me to soften it.

You saw something fishy. It's fishy, so I do not fault you. It is perfectly reasonable to come to a place like this and say something like, "Hey guys, this looks fishy. What do you think?" I do not fault you for this.

So what's my gripe? My gripe is how you transitioned from, "Is this fishy?" to defending a claim that it was fishy. It really wasn't hard to show it's not very fishy, but you don't seem to have looked for that information. You settled into a defensive position right away.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on June 20, 2019, 04:03:18 PM
So what's my gripe? My gripe is how you transitioned from, "Is this fishy?" to defending a claim that it was fishy. It really wasn't hard to show it's not very fishy, but you don't seem to have looked for that information. You settled into a defensive position right away.

Exactly this. Perfectly reasonable to question whether “they” are up to something. And, to an extent, they are in this instance. They’re clearly showing the best “take” to show their robots in their best light. But where Thork gets the tin foil hat out is the confident assertions that the videos are actually fake. No evidence is presented, just claims that they “don’t look right”.
This is the problem with people with no experience or expertise in analysing photos or videos being over-confident in their ability to do so. That leads to them basing opinions on their faulty analysis and so believing wrong things. In this instance, as you say, it’s very easy to get to the truth of the matter.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: stack on June 21, 2019, 01:32:02 AM
Such an interesting depiction of where we all land based upon our levels of skepticism, I guess. Thork kinda fell into the "Look how easy it is to fake this seemingly remarkable technology and began as the skeptic questioning motives, business models and perhaps zero independent affirmation existed so maybe this thing is all smoke and mirrors" thing. For me, on the flipside, it's never even crossed my mind that BD has 'faked' anything. Making the best of the best demos, sure, what company wouldn't, but I've never skeptically questioned the technology they market/display. Just more sorta like, "Yeah, the tech seems amazing, yet reasonable and yeah, the skynet robots taking over the world thing will probably, most definitely happen." It's all contextual and dependent on one's POV going in.

I will say this, if our team on this thread were dropped behind enemy lines to infiltrate whathaveyou, I'd want Thork on point to suss out the friends versus enemies. A hyper vigilant level of skepticism bodes well in that context.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: spherical on June 21, 2019, 08:32:48 PM
I know BD is not faking at all. 

First, I saw personally one of the robots working.

Second, my personal budget is waaaaay below BD, million times lower, and even so I was able to build a self standing and driving two wheels and one arm robot, with accelerators and gyros chips, infrared and ultrasound sensors for obstacles, no image camera yet (working on it), and a simple space orientation beacon based on 3 ultrasound emitters in the long room.  When he wants to make sure about location, it stops, shuts off its own ultrasound obstacle avoidance, blinks its strong IR LEd upwards in a certain sequence of pulses, this trigger the 3 emitters, then listen to them.  The first emitter beeps, the second hear such beep and issue its own beep, the third does it too.  The robot listen for the 3 beeps and measures time between them following its own IR flash.  As the time delay between each emitter  is known, the robot calculates the delays from what he hear, and with certain accuracy he can tell where he is in the room, walks a foot and repeat, now he even knows the direction.  This was home made (as many others in the world), using 8 simple AVR AtMega microcontrollers (including the emitters) a half size car battery, MosFET drivers, motors, etc.  Boston D uses much more advanced processors, memories, programming, drivers, actuators, engines, and millions of dollars.  If they can? Of course they can, much more even, talk about the military contracts we shouldn't know.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on June 22, 2019, 11:35:26 AM
I will say this, if our team on this thread were dropped behind enemy lines to infiltrate whathaveyou, I'd want Thork on point to suss out the friends versus enemies. A hyper vigilant level of skepticism bodes well in that context.
He’d probably declare you an enemy spy and shoot you...

Blindly believing everything anyone tells you is silly but it’s equally silly to go full tin foil hat and treat everyone and everything with extreme suspicion. Both can lead to errors as Thork has shown in this thread.

A combination of a natural distrust of everyone and everything and his over-estimation of his own ability to detect fakery in videos has led him to a false conclusion.
He may want to consider what else he might have got wrong because of this...
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Tumeni on June 24, 2019, 10:21:02 PM
Well, what a coincidence. Boston Dynamics prepares to launch first commercial dog ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqZgpp94ZbE
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on June 25, 2019, 12:55:52 PM
Well, what a coincidence. Boston Dynamics prepares to launch first commercial dog ...
Jesus, have we descended to the level of copy-pasting links to automatically generated youtube "news" stories with a text-to-speech "newsreader"?

No, the nice bot lady saying it's totally happening does not make it sound likely.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Tumeni on June 25, 2019, 02:40:10 PM
Well, what a coincidence. Boston Dynamics prepares to launch first commercial dog ...
Jesus, have we descended to the level of copy-pasting links to automatically generated youtube "news" stories with a text-to-speech "newsreader"?

No, the nice bot lady saying it's totally happening does not make it sound likely.

Is this moderation or personal contribution?
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on June 25, 2019, 03:15:37 PM
Is this moderation or personal contribution?
A personal comment. You're not strictly forbidden from citing terrible sources, but I'm still inclined to point out how terrible they are.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: ICanScienceThat on June 25, 2019, 04:15:14 PM
Well, what a coincidence. Boston Dynamics prepares to launch first commercial dog ...
Jesus, have we descended to the level of copy-pasting links to automatically generated youtube "news" stories with a text-to-speech "newsreader"?

No, the nice bot lady saying it's totally happening does not make it sound likely.

This is kind of my point once more. Let's investigate.
1) Tumeni links a video claiming Boston Dynamics is planning a commercial release.
2) Pete finds this link dubious. (I agree. It's weak.)
3) At this point we could...
  a) Look for more information
  b) Attack the quality of the link and reject the veracity of the claim.

I'll give you a moment.

Ok... so what happens if we take just 5 minutes to try out option a)?
https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/5/18653710/boston-dynamics-first-commercial-robot-spot-demo-amazon-remars-conference-marc-raibert
https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/11/boston-dynamics-will-start-selling-its-dog-like-spotmini-robot-in-2019/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/04/18/boston-dynamics-latest-video-shows-herd-robotic-dogs-hauling-massive-truck-with-ease/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1a80d33b9a38
https://bgr.com/2019/06/05/boston-dynamics-robot-spot-going-on-sale/
https://www.wired.com/story/what-boston-dynamics-rolling-handle-robot-really-means/

Interesting, right?

What's the take-away? Well Tumeni's video link was IMO pretty crappy. Text-to-speech? Seriously?
But does that make the claim false? No.

So I agree with Pete that it's a poor link. Sure. But then Pete goes on with this...
"No, the nice bot lady saying it's totally happening does not make it sound likely." (emphasis mine)

Criticizing the video link is fair. Maybe I'm misreading this, but it sure sounds to me like Pete is discounting the facts based on the quality of the video WITHOUT even checking for corroborating evidence one way or the other.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on June 25, 2019, 05:57:39 PM
Ah, I think you're reading far too much into what I said, perhaps making assumptions about my mindset due to your association with "the opposite tribe"?

Let's look at my quote once again, keeping your emphasis: "No, the nice bot lady saying it's totally happening does not make it sound likely."

I maintain that what I said is true: that source alone does not make Tumeni's argument sound likely. I'd go so far as to say his approach was foolish. I suspect that he found the first result that matched his hypothesis and posted it without listening to the content, and I base this on the assumption that one wouldn't post this video after reviewing it.

It follows that I believe we shouldn't be using bad sources here. It does not follow that bad source => information is unequivocally false.

I have no strong position on Boston Dynamics, and my default stance would be not to assume foul play unless strong evidence was presented. So far, no strong evidence has been presented.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: ICanScienceThat on June 25, 2019, 06:01:08 PM
Ah, I think you're reading far too much into what I said, perhaps making assumptions about my mindset due to your association with "the opposite tribe"?

Let's look at my quote once again, keeping your emphasis: "No, the nice bot lady saying it's totally happening does not make it sound likely."

I maintain that what I said is true: that source alone does not make Tumeni's argument sound likely.

It follows that I believe we shouldn't be using bad sources here. It does not follow that bad source => information is unequivocally false.

I have no strong position on Boston Dynamics, and my default stance would be not to assume foul play unless strong evidence was presented. So far, no strong evidence has been presented.
Excellent. I agree with this completely. I was wondering if perhaps I wasn't reading your intent properly.
I agree that the link presented was weak. I also stand by my statement that the information presented in the link was easily corroborated with better links.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2019, 07:45:55 PM
Ah, I think you're reading far too much into what I said, perhaps making assumptions about my mindset due to your association with "the opposite tribe"?

Let's look at my quote once again, keeping your emphasis: "No, the nice bot lady saying it's totally happening does not make it sound likely."

I maintain that what I said is true: that source alone does not make Tumeni's argument sound likely.
I think that at least part of the problem is that pointing out the "nice bot lady" makes your comment sound an awful lot like a style over substance fallacy. 
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on June 25, 2019, 09:48:31 PM
I think that at least part of the problem is that pointing out the "nice bot lady" makes your comment sound an awful lot like a style over substance fallacy.
And why would you think that? Do you not support the use of reputable sources over automatically-generated clickbait?
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: markjo on June 25, 2019, 10:37:28 PM
I think that at least part of the problem is that pointing out the "nice bot lady" makes your comment sound an awful lot like a style over substance fallacy.
And why would you think that? Do you not support the use of reputable sources over automatically-generated clickbait?
Being "automatically-generated clickbait" doesn't automatically make it wrong, especially when "reputable sources" say the same thing.
https://www.cnet.com/news/boston-dynamics-spotmini-robot-dog-goes-on-sale-in-2019/
https://www.foxnews.com/tech/boston-dynamics-creepy-robot-dog-is-going-up-for-sale
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/spotmini-robots-boston-dynamics-spot-release-date-price-a8946871.html
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/14/spotmini-robotic-dog-sale-2019-former-google-boston-dynamics
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: Pete Svarrior on June 26, 2019, 01:34:23 AM
Being "automatically-generated clickbait" doesn't automatically make it wrong, especially when "reputable sources" say the same thing.
I'm other words, you're entirely in agreement with me. I'm going to have to ask you to stop trying to detail upper fora threads. You're a veteran, so I'll give you one last warning before condemning you back to you-know-where.
Title: Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
Post by: flachland on July 10, 2019, 05:03:02 AM
15 or so years ago I saw "Murata Boy" live in action at an exhibition. It a self-balancing robot on a bicycle. The robot was about teenager size I would say. Gyro-sensors where not so common then, quite breathtaking to see that live. Technology now is much further.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3_0OzaoQ00



EDIT - fixed broken video link. ~junker