[ICanScienceThat]

Guys, he's suckered you. He knows exactly how it works. He acts confused to make you guys jump around trying to answer his question while he continues to act like he doesn't get it.

Get serious here. When have you EVER heard a flat Earther talk about the speed of the Earth's rotation as a rotational speed? They ALWAYS quote it by the linear speed. And yet, here we have Tom who begins with a given linear speed and converts that into a rotational speed to compare it to the speed of the Earth. And we're supposed to believe that this is anything other than absolutely on purpose? Get real.

Tom will never concede that you have explained the situation. No matter what. This is not the behavior of a genuine truth seeker. Tom is doing an act. I could only guess why, but I'm quite convinced he does it on purpose.

[stack]

Guys, he's suckered you. He knows exactly how it works. He acts confused to make you guys jump around trying to answer his question while he continues to act like he doesn't get it.

Get serious here. When have you EVER heard a flat Earther talk about the speed of the Earth's rotation as a rotational speed? They ALWAYS quote it by the linear speed. And yet, here we have Tom who begins with a given linear speed and converts that into a rotational speed to compare it to the speed of the Earth. And we're supposed to believe that this is anything other than absolutely on purpose? Get real.

Tom will never concede that you have explained the situation. No matter what. This is not the behavior of a genuine truth seeker. Tom is doing an act. I could only guess why, but I'm quite convinced he does it on purpose.

I couldn't agree more. He's merely trying to pretend how a 'shadow' doesn't work. Much like the dozen plus pages a half a dozen of us spent trying to make him go outside for 1 minute with a piece of string and a tennis ball to zetetically see how the 'moon terminator illusion' works. He's trolling, that's all. Pay no mind.

[Tom Bishop]

Tumeni, you subtract the speed of the earth's rotation from the speed of the moon around the earth to say that the moon's shadow is traveling over the earth faster than the Earth's rotation. And that this shadow is traveling from West to East at a speed of about 1200mph to make the eclipse path from the west coast of the US to the east coast.

How can this be the case when observers see the moon passing in front of the Sun from East to West, not West to East?

See: https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

The Moon starts in a Eastern direction on the Sun and ends in a Western direction on the Sun.

If the Moon was passing by overhead West to East at 1200 miles per hour to make an eclipse path from West to East on the Earth's surface, then one is inclined to think that we should see it start from the West on the Sun.

Read:

https://www.space.com/36388-total-solar-eclipse-2017-duration.html

Then dispute.

I'm wasting time trying to find you yet another nice visual that shows how a shadow works. And you simply deny them all for reasons that only fall into a troll bucket.

I could tease out, cherry pick from the article, which you often do. But why bother. It answers all of your "questions". Answers which have already been pointed out to you, you are trying to make into a 'paradox', one that doesn't exist. Nice try.

That article doesn't say anything about these topics we are discussing. I want to know how the geometry of your model works in comparison to what we observe.

You need the Moon going west, so why do we see it starting on the east on the sun?

If you guys can't explain it then you should abandon the thread.

[stack]

Tumeni, you subtract the speed of the earth's rotation from the speed of the moon around the earth to say that the moon's shadow is traveling over the earth faster than the Earth's rotation. And that this shadow is traveling from West to East at a speed of about 1200mph to make the eclipse path from the west coast of the US to the east coast.

How can this be the case when observers see the moon passing in front of the Sun from East to West, not West to East?

See: https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

The Moon starts in a Eastern direction on the Sun and ends in a Western direction on the Sun.

If the Moon was passing by overhead West to East at 1200 miles per hour to make an eclipse path from West to East on the Earth's surface, then one is inclined to think that we should see it start from the West on the Sun.

Read:

https://www.space.com/36388-total-solar-eclipse-2017-duration.html

Then dispute.

I'm wasting time trying to find you yet another nice visual that shows how a shadow works. And you simply deny them all for reasons that only fall into a troll bucket.

I could tease out, cherry pick from the article, which you often do. But why bother. It answers all of your "questions". Answers which have already been pointed out to you, you are trying to make into a 'paradox', one that doesn't exist. Nice try.

That article doesn't say anything about these topics we are discussing. I want to know how the geometry of your model works in comparison to what we observe.

If you guys can't explain it then you should abandon the thread.

It's already been explained, exhibited, and demonstrated ad nausea. If you claim to not get it, then that is a personal failing.

[Tom Bishop]

You have not explained it at all. You are running away from it. If you don't have answers then don't post and quietly admit defeat by silence.

[stack]

You have not explained it at all. You are running away from it. If you don't have answers then don't post and quietly admit defeat by silence.

I already provided something for you to refute. Just saying something has not been explained to your satisfaction is what is considered running away. Quit trolling. It's not very becoming and is very desperate. You've taken a beating lately, so perhaps understand your desperation. Carry on.

[Tom Bishop]

That link does not have anything about which direction the moon passes in front of the sun. If you can't quote from your source to demonstrate your argument then you have none.

[J-Man]

You're all being suckered. Over two thousand years ago people had been studying the movements of lights in the sky. Lets say for 2000 years prior to that, they documented movement, to come up with a device that ultimately proved the celestial movement of all lights in the firmament. We call the discovery Antikythera Mechanism.



https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/17/15650210/antikythera-mechanism-discovery-anniversary-analog-astronomical-computer

So Please....get a yob

[stack]

That link does not have anything about which direction the moon passes in front of the sun. If you can't quote from your source to demonstrate your argument then you have none.

Didn't know you had a problem with the direction of which way the moon passes in front of the sun. Seems like you may have answered your own question. Why don't you state exactly what your issue is and we'll take it from there. You keep on moving not only questions around but actual celestial bodies. Of which you have no knowledge of anyway. As previously admitted by you. So carry on, maybe we'll get somewhere.

[markjo]

Tumeni, you subtract the speed of the earth's rotation from the speed of the moon around the earth to say that the moon's shadow is traveling over the earth faster than the Earth's rotation. And that this shadow is traveling from West to East at a speed of about 1200mph to make the eclipse path from the west coast of the US to the east coast. The moon is passing in front of the sun at a speed of 1200mph to make the Eastwardly moving shadow which moves at that speed.

How can this be the case when observers see the moon passing in front of the Sun from East to West, not West to East?

See: https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

The Moon starts in a Eastern direction on the Sun and ends in a Western direction on the Sun.

If the Moon was passing by overhead West to East at 1200 miles per hour to make an eclipse path from West to East on the Earth's surface, then one is inclined to think that we should see it start from the West on the Sun.

Again Tom, think about it.  FE'ers are seeing exactly the same thing that RE'ers are seeing and the important parts of the geometry aren't really that much different.  If you can formulate a reasonable FE explanation, then it will most likely be quite similar to the RE explanation.  That is unless you feel the need to invoke bendy light or something.

[Tom Bishop]

It's a simple geometric question. What's the problem?

According to Tumeni/whoever, we can subtract the speed of the moon from the rotation of the earth and see that the moon's shadow is traveling from West to East at 1200 mph across the continental US.

In which case, we get a scene like this:



Yet the Moon does not cross in front of the Sun from West to East. It crosses in front of the Sun from East to West.

See the Aug 2017 Solar Eclipse in question: https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

The first video shows that the Moon travels from East to West across the Sun, not West to East.

There is a geometric issue with this explanation.

[stack]

It's a simple geometric question. What's the problem?

According to Tumeni/whoever, we can subtract the speed of the moon from the rotation of the earth and see that the moon's shadow is traveling from West to East at 1200 mph across the continental US.

In which case, we get a scene like this:



Yet the Moon does not cross in front of the Sun from West to East. It crosses in front of the Sun from East to West.

See the Aug 2017 Solar Eclipse in question: https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

There is a geometric issue with this explanation.

What's your question exactly?

[Tom Bishop]

The Moon travels from East to West across the face of the Sun, not West to East. See the first video in the timeanddate.com link.

https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

[stack]

The Moon travels from East to West across the face of the Sun, not West to East. See the first video in the timeanddate.com link.

https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

So what's your question?

[Tom Bishop]

The Moon travels from East to West across the face of the Sun, not West to East. See the first video in the timeanddate.com link.

https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

So what's your question?

I am asking you to please explain the scenario with your model.

[stack]

The Moon travels from East to West across the face of the Sun, not West to East. See the first video in the timeanddate.com link.

https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

So what's your question?

I am asking you to please explain the scenario with your model.

What and which scenario? You've been all over the place with this. Be specific with your question. I still don't see one.

[Tom Bishop]

It's a simple geometric question. Explain why the Moon goes from East to West in front of the Sun rather than from West to East with the explanation given:

It's a simple geometric question. What's the problem?

According to Tumeni/whoever, we can subtract the speed of the moon from the rotation of the earth and see that the moon's shadow is traveling from West to East at 1200 mph across the continental US.

In which case, we get a scene like this:



Yet the Moon does not cross in front of the Sun from West to East. It crosses in front of the Sun from East to West.

See the Aug 2017 Solar Eclipse in question: https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

The first video shows that the Moon travels from East to West across the Sun, not West to East.

There is a geometric issue with this explanation.

[stack]

It's a simple geometric question. Explain why the Moon goes from East to West in front of the Sun rather than from West to East with the explanation given:

It's a simple geometric question. What's the problem?

According to Tumeni/whoever, we can subtract the speed of the moon from the rotation of the earth and see that the moon's shadow is traveling from West to East at 1200 mph across the continental US.

In which case, we get a scene like this:



Yet the Moon does not cross in front of the Sun from West to East. It crosses in front of the Sun from East to West.

See the Aug 2017 Solar Eclipse in question: https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

The first video shows that the Moon travels from East to West across the Sun, not West to East.

There is a geometric issue with this explanation.

From what vantage point? Where is the observer? On the earth looking up? On the moon looking at the earth? On the sun looking at the moon? And then what are you trying to figure out from there? Which way the umbra should travel? Prepare a very specific question which you seem to find paradoxical. Thus far, it's unclear where you're tripped up.

[ICanScienceThat]

"Explain why the Moon goes from East to West in front of the Sun..."
Good question Tom, but I've got a better one. Explain why you THINK the Moon went from East to West in that video.

[Tumeni]

Tumeni, you subtract the speed of the earth's rotation from the speed of the moon around the earth to say that the moon's shadow is traveling over the earth faster than the Earth's rotation.

- - - No, I subtract the speed of any point on the surface from the speed of the Moon's shadow.

And that this shadow is traveling from West to East at a speed of about 1200mph to make the eclipse path from the west coast of the US to the east coast. The moon is passing in front of the sun at a speed of 1200mph to make the Eastwardly moving shadow which moves at that speed.

How can this be the case when observers see the moon passing in front of the Sun from East to West, not West to East?

See: https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/solar/2017-august-21

The Moon starts in a Eastern direction on the Sun and ends in a Western direction on the Sun.

- - - When observed from Earth, both objects move East to West during eclipse, in the same direction they always do


If the Moon was passing by overhead West to East at 1200 miles per hour to make an eclipse path from West to East on the Earth's surface, then one is inclined to think that we should see it start from the West on the Sun.

Once again, the Moon and the Moon's shadow exhibit two distinct forms of motion.

The Moon circles the Earth once every 28 days, whilst the point on the Earth observing the Moon moves in a circle once every day. The point on the Earth speeds along Eastward in a faster circle than the Moon itself, so the Moon is seen in the sky to move from East to West. The Moon lags behind the observer

The shadow moves across the space occupied by the Earth in a purely linear manner, passing over a distance, at maximum, of 7917.5 miles, at a speed of roughly 2200 mph, Eastward.  Any chosen point on the surface under this shadow is moving at max 1000 mph approx, also Eastward. The shadow has no rotational aspect around the Earth, so cannot be considered in terms of its angular position with respect to the Earth or observers.

Once again, with two motions Eastward, one of 2200 mph, one of around 1000 mph, the net result is 2200 - 1000  = 1200 mph, approx, still Eastward.