An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« on: February 07, 2019, 07:13:48 PM »
In case people are not already aware, youtuber VoysovReason has put out a challenge to the FE community to demonstrate HOW images put out by NASA are faked, by providing 12 images of his own, one of which has been modified. See the video for a full explanation which comes towards the end.




This seems like a very reasonable challenge. It is also one that, given the wealth of knowledge in your community, should an easy one to rise to.

I’ve not been posting here for very long, but am genuinely interested and fascinated by the FE world view, especially as someone leading a spiritual life, influenced by Christian and Buddhist teaching (because I assume that this view is driven by a literal reading of scripture).

There seems to be some very sharp minds here - with a far better understanding of science than I have. This is what piques my interest - that the obvious truth of a globe Earth is disbelieved. I struggle to understand how that thinking works. My belief in a globe Earth is supported by the simpler things that one can observe e.g. the scattering of blue shortwave light that gives the red/orange end of the spectrum colour to sunsets, how the light lights up a mountain from the top first, how ships disappear bottom first over the horizon (despite what some claim, there are tons of images of this phenomenon), rather than the more complicated maths etc that I see in some YT videos - I just don’t get that complex maths stuff (though I am signed up to a maths course later this year as I dropped out of school in the 1970’s and never got a maths qualification).

As always, with genuinely warm wishes.

God bless.

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Offline BillO

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2019, 08:25:14 PM »
Interesting challenge but I doubt anyone here will take it up.

As far as I can determine, most of the Flat Earth believers on this site claim to be atheist.  I'm not sure if the recent (last 200+/- years) resurgence in a FE belief was begun by people with literal view of the Christian canon but at least one of the FE heroes from 200 years ago, Samuel Robotham, seems to have been driven by his fundamentalist faith.  However, one must consider he was considered a complete quack by the scientific community of the time.  Things have not changed much in that respect.
Here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

Quote from: Tom Bishop - Zetetic Council Member
The moon's orbital path has a diameter of 768,000 km. That is almost one million miles.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2019, 11:25:03 PM »
How does picking out an item what was photshopped from one of a series of photos prove whether NASA's content is fake?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 05:57:07 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 09:40:37 AM »
How does picking out an item what was photshopped into one of a series of photos prove whether NASA's content is fake?
It doesn't. But what it does so is demonstrate that you have the necessary skills to tell real images from fake ones and are not just arbitrarily calling everything fake which doesn't fit in your world-view because of confirmation bias.
I have asked on this board several times what actual analysis has been done of photos and videos from space - I mean proper analysis by people skilled in such things, not vague assertions. I've yet to get an answer.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 12:01:31 PM »
So it's essentially a "fake or foto" test to see whether flat earthers are bullshitting when they call photos fake.

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Offline BillO

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2019, 01:18:02 PM »
That is precisely it.  You could use photos of rib steaks if you wish, the subject matter is immaterial.  Rather it is the proving an image had been manipulated enough to be considered completely inaccurate/false representation.
Here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

Quote from: Tom Bishop - Zetetic Council Member
The moon's orbital path has a diameter of 768,000 km. That is almost one million miles.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2019, 01:36:48 PM »
So it's essentially a "fake or foto" test to see whether flat earthers are bullshitting when they call photos fake.

That’s it, basically; then to apply that analysis to images put out by NASA to deconstruct how they did it.

I find it quite astonishing that the majority of FErs would be atheist, as Bill0 says he thinks is the case. The literal Bible believers I get; the Atheists? I find it harder to think my way into that mindset and work out a motivation.

What is important to me is try to maintain compassion and understanding for views that differ from my own. Also to keep an open mind - I might be wrong! Case in point is my religious faith. I moved from militant atheism to a belief in God during my early 50s. 

I get that there’s a mistrust of science, probably fuelled by the seeming incomprehensibility of much of the complex maths and physics involved, coupled with what seems like the constantly shifting ground as new information modifies or even refutes previous knowledge - but that is the very nature of the scientific method. There is always an open formulation, ready for new information to inform it.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2019, 04:59:56 PM »
Like BillO and AATW have already pointed out, ir's doubtful whether FE'ers will answer at all. The basic reason for that I think is that for pictures of the Earth, the logic basically goes: "The Earth is flat, therefore, the Conspiracy is real, therefore, the pictures showing Earth as a globe are fake." And then they just throw in CGI as an explanation without actually pointing out how it's fake.
In the words of Tom Bishop,
Unless you've debunked all evidence it remains as evidence.
We are smarter than those scientists.
Hmm. So Tom Bishop is a Russian spy. That would explain why he is so dedicated.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2019, 12:01:45 PM »
How does picking out an item what was photshopped into one of a series of photos prove whether NASA's content is fake?
It doesn't. But what it does so is demonstrate that you have the necessary skills to tell real images from fake ones and are not just arbitrarily calling everything fake which doesn't fit in your world-view because of confirmation bias.
I do not believe I have witnessed any FE adherent label every image they see as "fake."
I have asked on this board several times what actual analysis has been done of photos and videos from space - I mean proper analysis by people skilled in such things, not vague assertions. I've yet to get an answer.
Usually, the vetting of evidence is incumbent on the presenter...correct?

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2019, 12:16:02 PM »
I do not believe I have witnessed any FE adherent label every image they see as "fake."
Oh, so you think some images of the spherical earth from space are real then? Unless you're being pedantic and meaning literally every image ever of anything... But that would be a stupid thing to say given that there is a context.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 12:25:58 PM by ChrisTP »

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2019, 12:59:40 PM »
I have asked on this board several times what actual analysis has been done of photos and videos from space - I mean proper analysis by people skilled in such things, not vague assertions. I've yet to get an answer.
Usually, the vetting of evidence is incumbent on the presenter...correct?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. NASA and lots of other space agencies, both national and private, have published images which they claim are taken from space.
Are you suggesting that it is incumbent on them to prove that the images are not doctored? I don't know how one would go about proving a negative like that.
But if the images are faked somehow then you'd think that someone with the necessary skills would be able to find evidence of that - especially with older photos where CGI techniques would have been less advanced. I've yet to seen any proper analysis of these images from someone with the necessary skills and professional experience. Just asserting they are fake is meaningless.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2019, 01:28:20 PM »
for the record this was answered a while ago.


Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2019, 01:46:37 PM »
for the record this was answered a while ago.



But that doesn't really matter, sure anyone could look up the answer on this forum but what matters here is the methodology, the criteria for determining photos fake or real. If you don't have that, then you've lost the challenge.
We are smarter than those scientists.
Hmm. So Tom Bishop is a Russian spy. That would explain why he is so dedicated.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2019, 01:53:28 PM »
Oh for sure I agree, and I'm sure flat earthers here will happily go about their business without acknowledging the video, but just in the off chance one of them does copy an answer that was already confirmed and then uses that as a self proclaimed professional photo analyst status, it's a thought experiment and nothing more.

The problem with this being a thought experiment is that we go away from it individually learning from it or silently scoffing. Flat earthers may not learn the lesson from this and walk away thinking they are still 'winning'. Continuing to just claim space photos fake without a premise.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2019, 02:29:52 PM »
I do not believe I have witnessed any FE adherent label every image they see as "fake."
Oh, so you think some images of the spherical earth from space are real then?
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.
Unless you're being pedantic and meaning literally every image ever of anything... But that would be a stupid thing to say given that there is a context.
Nope, not being pedantic.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2019, 02:45:50 PM »
I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2019, 06:02:42 PM »
The title of the OP is "An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!"

And we are encouraged to pick out a photoshopped element in a series of photos. If we did so, how would it prove that NASA's images are fake?

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2019, 06:10:46 PM »
The title of the OP is "An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!"

And we are encouraged to pick out a photoshopped element in a series of photos. If we did so, how would it prove that NASA's images are fake?
come on now, stop getting fixated on the wording of the title of the topic, it's not very productive.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2019, 08:08:48 PM »
The title of the OP is "An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!"

And we are encouraged to pick out a photoshopped element in a series of photos. If we did so, how would it prove that NASA's images are fake?

AATW literally spelled it out for you Tom. It doesn't do so directly, what it does is demonstrate that you have the skills and an objective criteria or methodology to determine whether a photo is fake or not. Since FE'ers contend NASA's photos are fake without any actual evidence besides out of context quotes, and composite images, etc., testing FE'ers skills and methodology with a series of images with a known photoshopped image would show whether you actually had the skills and methodology to back up your assertions about NASA's images.

This isn't rocket science Tom!
We are smarter than those scientists.
Hmm. So Tom Bishop is a Russian spy. That would explain why he is so dedicated.

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Offline BillO

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2019, 01:42:52 AM »
Usually, the vetting of evidence is incumbent on the presenter...correct?
No, this is not the usual case at all and never has been in the case of images.

As an example, a nature photography competition may have certain rules about what is allowed.  The PSA definition is here: https://psa-photo.org/index.php?nature-nature-definition  Photographers are welcome to submit pictures, but are never asked to provide any proof their submissions meet the criteria.  It is then up to the folks running the competition to determine whether or not the entered images meet the definition.

The audience always the final say.
Here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

Quote from: Tom Bishop - Zetetic Council Member
The moon's orbital path has a diameter of 768,000 km. That is almost one million miles.