Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2019, 01:58:23 PM »
... all conveniently caught with the purview of the ISS cupola from a supposed height of just over 250 miles above the earth's surface...

Gimme a break...LOL!
So, are you saying that because you found one camera on the ISS that uses a fish-eye lens that proves that all cameras on the ISS use fish-eye lenses?
I don't care what kind of camera is being used.

I wrote: "I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual."

In response, I received this query from AATW: "OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?"

I am writing the images presented by NASA present a false narrative of a globe earth and I have provided visual evidence they indeed do just that.
OK, and do you by chance have a source for the image you presented? Did you look into it in order to determine that it's actually impossible? Or are you just making an assumption? A quick google on it reveals it's an image taken out of the ISS cupola utilizing a fisheye lens. The cupola extends out beyond the surface of the ISS to provide essentially a 360 degree view with a 'horizon' of the edge of the station. How is it impossible for such a setup to be able to capture the whole of the Earth utilizing a fisheye lens? Sounds more like you need it to be fake, so you've decided it's fake without any investigation. Which is exactly what the video is essentially accusing FE'rs of doing.
You cannot capture the "whole," of the earth (per RE parameters) at the altitude of the ISS.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2019, 02:11:01 PM »
Totallackey... The title of this thread states this is your opportunity to prove the NASA images are fake. You presented an image from NASA and said impossible images like this are the reason. You don't need to specifically call something fake if you're calling it impossible and implying it's not real. Watch me do it;

Flat earth isn't real, it's not a thing, it's made up. On the other hand, Globe earth is real.

See how I didn't say flat earth was fake but still made the claim that is is fake? Real is an antonym of fake. By claiming something is impossible you're claiming the photo is not possible, if it were possible, it would be real while if it were impossible, it *must* have been a fake, a forgery, a hoax. it doesn't matter what word you use to describe it, your whole claim is that the photo is fake but your evidence thus far is zero.

Stop dodging the question, how is the photo impossible to take? What makes that photo impossible? Please give us some actual evidence of fakery and not just your opinion. A claim must be backed up by evidence.

As a side note I genuinely wish for you to be right about this photo. I want it to be fake. If you were right it would be pretty fun to find out and I literally don't care if the world is flat or sphere (I mean it really makes literally no difference to me) but it'd be pretty interesting to me if it were flat. So while I think the NASA images are real based on my professional record as a CGI artist who's been using Photoshop for the last 17 years, I wouldn't mind them being fake either. I also take my constructive citisism pretty well so by all means prove me wrong when I say the photo is perfectly possible and thus real (or the very least no reason or evidence to be fake that I can see).
I have responded to the thread offering my own take on NASA images.

You have consistently demonstrated the urgent need to interpret my writing in a false way.

You claim you want me to be right in my claim the images from NASA are fake.

Well, I got news.

And the news is this:

They are images.

That means they are real images.

You can see them and I can see them and all God's children can see them.

That does not mean that what is depicted by the images is a true characterization of the subject matter, much like your image, here:

Thanks for proving my point!

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Online markjo

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2019, 02:52:37 PM »
You said the image was impossible which implies it is fake.  Are you being obtuse?

You also said you did not know how the image was composed or complied.  Your admitted ignorance means you cannot make the claim it is impossible.
I did say the image was impossible.

It is impossible based on the math involved.
Would you care to show your math, including the focal length and field of view of the camera used?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2019, 03:22:19 PM »
Totallackey... The title of this thread states this is your opportunity to prove the NASA images are fake. You presented an image from NASA and said impossible images like this are the reason. You don't need to specifically call something fake if you're calling it impossible and implying it's not real. Watch me do it;

Flat earth isn't real, it's not a thing, it's made up. On the other hand, Globe earth is real.

See how I didn't say flat earth was fake but still made the claim that is is fake? Real is an antonym of fake. By claiming something is impossible you're claiming the photo is not possible, if it were possible, it would be real while if it were impossible, it *must* have been a fake, a forgery, a hoax. it doesn't matter what word you use to describe it, your whole claim is that the photo is fake but your evidence thus far is zero.

Stop dodging the question, how is the photo impossible to take? What makes that photo impossible? Please give us some actual evidence of fakery and not just your opinion. A claim must be backed up by evidence.

As a side note I genuinely wish for you to be right about this photo. I want it to be fake. If you were right it would be pretty fun to find out and I literally don't care if the world is flat or sphere (I mean it really makes literally no difference to me) but it'd be pretty interesting to me if it were flat. So while I think the NASA images are real based on my professional record as a CGI artist who's been using Photoshop for the last 17 years, I wouldn't mind them being fake either. I also take my constructive citisism pretty well so by all means prove me wrong when I say the photo is perfectly possible and thus real (or the very least no reason or evidence to be fake that I can see).
I have responded to the thread offering my own take on NASA images.

You have consistently demonstrated the urgent need to interpret my writing in a false way.

You claim you want me to be right in my claim the images from NASA are fake.

Well, I got news.

And the news is this:

They are images.

That means they are real images.

You can see them and I can see them and all God's children can see them.

That does not mean that what is depicted by the images is a true characterization of the subject matter, much like your image, here:

Thanks for proving my point!
Right so what you're saying now just to be sure I understand, that the images are real (obviously, it's a real image, and I'll move past your pedantry once again) but what they depict within the image is not possible. So, do you think then that there was in fact a photo taken on the ISS and that image is just distorted or taken from a 360 camera or whatever and thus because it doesn't depict exactly how we would see it with our own eyes, it's an impossible image?

I'm really trying to understand your point of view here despite your hostility so either;

1. You think the image was faked and it was not taken on the ISS showing the real earth, in which case please provide evidence.

2. You think the image was taken on the ISS and you have a problem with how the camera has captured the earth and thus think it disingenuous, in which case I think that this is a misunderstanding, if you were stood at on the ISS about 2 meters from that window you would not be able to see the circle of earth. Cameras can capture 360 images or in the case with fisheye lenses, can capture a wider area than our eyes. if a fly can see in a similar way to a 360 camera that doesn't mean what the fly sees is impossible simply because you can't see that way yourself.

3. Image isn't real because you think ISS isn't real and if the if the ISS isn't real the image isn't real so the ISS isn't real so the image isn't real so the ISS isn't real. - infinite loop of thought that is a rabbit hole where you're plunging into a fallacy.

4. I've misunderstood, please explain

So far you may as well have said "it's impossible because reasons." and unless you back up your reasons I can only assume you're stuck with number 3. You're not making much sense to anyone here by the looks of it, please elaborate.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2019, 03:24:41 PM »
... all conveniently caught with the purview of the ISS cupola from a supposed height of just over 250 miles above the earth's surface...

Gimme a break...LOL!
So, are you saying that because you found one camera on the ISS that uses a fish-eye lens that proves that all cameras on the ISS use fish-eye lenses?
I don't care what kind of camera is being used.

I wrote: "I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual."

In response, I received this query from AATW: "OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?"

I am writing the images presented by NASA present a false narrative of a globe earth and I have provided visual evidence they indeed do just that.

So you then acknowledge your own ignorance to the matter and cherry pick an image from the ISS cupola taken by a camera with a fisheye lens and imply it's an image representative of all NASA images to support your conclusion that all NASA images are fake. Do a little research, and you'll find a strikingly similar
image claimed to have been taken by a camera with a fish eye lens.
https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2010/06/02/astro_soichi-comes-back-to-earth/

And as Tom Bishop said:
Unless you've debunked all evidence it remains as evidence.
We are all eagerly awaiting your photoanalysis of all other NASA images or at least evidence that your provided is representative of all NASA images, but wait, it clearly is not since it was taken with a fish eye lens.

So what have learned today? totallackey here is being deliberately disingenuous by providing one image, claiming it is impossible in the face of evidence showing it was taken with a fisheye lens, and then further implying it is representative of all of NASA's other images, in essence handwaving loads of evidence with a weak and ignorant photoanalysis.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 03:27:12 PM by Bastian Baasch »
We are smarter than those scientists.
Hmm. So Tom Bishop is a Russian spy. That would explain why he is so dedicated.

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Offline BillO

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2019, 03:28:47 PM »
It is impossible based on the math involved.

Even if RE is true, the stated parameters of RE, combined with the stated parameters of the ISS, indicates the image is impossible.
No, it's not.  That is exactly the kind of picture fisheye lenses were designed to take.  This has been pointed out multiple times in this thread.  Fisheye lenses can provide greater than 180 degrees of view.  I'm not sure why your not getting this.  Look them up.

If you are privy to some math that the rest of the universe is unaware of, then please share.

Quote
Quit being so disingenuous with your silly characterizations.
LOL!  How hilarious is this?  Your definitions, like your math seem to be your own.
Here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

Quote from: Tom Bishop - Zetetic Council Member
The moon's orbital path has a diameter of 768,000 km. That is almost one million miles.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2019, 03:32:46 PM »
... all conveniently caught with the purview of the ISS cupola from a supposed height of just over 250 miles above the earth's surface...

Gimme a break...LOL!
So, are you saying that because you found one camera on the ISS that uses a fish-eye lens that proves that all cameras on the ISS use fish-eye lenses?
I don't care what kind of camera is being used.

I wrote: "I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual."

In response, I received this query from AATW: "OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?"

I am writing the images presented by NASA present a false narrative of a globe earth and I have provided visual evidence they indeed do just that.
OK, and do you by chance have a source for the image you presented? Did you look into it in order to determine that it's actually impossible? Or are you just making an assumption? A quick google on it reveals it's an image taken out of the ISS cupola utilizing a fisheye lens. The cupola extends out beyond the surface of the ISS to provide essentially a 360 degree view with a 'horizon' of the edge of the station. How is it impossible for such a setup to be able to capture the whole of the Earth utilizing a fisheye lens? Sounds more like you need it to be fake, so you've decided it's fake without any investigation. Which is exactly what the video is essentially accusing FE'rs of doing.
You cannot capture the "whole," of the earth (per RE parameters) at the altitude of the ISS.
But the cupola as it's stated to exist on the ISS would allow such an image via the use of a fisheye lens. As I stated. All you've done is go 'nuh-uh' to the information about the image I provided. I'm once again forced to presume you aren't actually interested in any form of legitimate discussion or debate and are here to troll. Good day to you.

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Offline BillO

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2019, 03:33:38 PM »
You cannot capture the "whole," of the earth (per RE parameters) at the altitude of the ISS.
Perhaps not with any rectilinear lens we are capable of building, but you certainly can with a circular fisheye.
Here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

Quote from: Tom Bishop - Zetetic Council Member
The moon's orbital path has a diameter of 768,000 km. That is almost one million miles.

Offline JCM

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2019, 06:07:31 PM »
That photo is obviously not the entirety of the earth, what makes you think that photo is showing too much of the Earth from one side?  Did NASA claim that photo or the ISS is capable of showing an entire hemisphere of the Earth in a single photo (even fisheye)?   Isn’t the first step to disprove that photo to display what the photo even is? Are you suggesting there is no “horizon” equivalent effectively cutting off the view prior to where the hemisphere ends as viewable for the ISS? That horizon for the ISS would reveal more and more of the Earth surface if the ISS were to change its altitude.  Obviously it’s not high enough in altitude to see anywhere near half the spherical Earth, no one has ever claimed it was.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 06:18:16 PM by JCM »

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Offline BillO

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2019, 08:11:18 PM »
You can certainly get a shot of all that is visible from 400km away from earth with a fisheye.  However, that would not be an entire hemisphere - just what is visible.

Given a sphere of radius R and an observer a distance D from the sphere, the viewing angle a, subtended by the sphere to the observer will be given by:
a = 2 * arcsin (R/(R+D))

The earth has a radius of approximately 6371km
The ISS is approximately 408km from the earth’s surface.
Therefore we have:

a = 2 * arcsin (6371/6779) = 2 * arcsin (.9294) = 2* 68.34 = 136.7 degrees

Easily captured with a 180 degree circular fisheye.
Here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

Quote from: Tom Bishop - Zetetic Council Member
The moon's orbital path has a diameter of 768,000 km. That is almost one million miles.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2019, 11:36:13 AM »
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

All of you have effectively agreed with my point.

NASA produces images that do not accurately depict things in a true way.

It is a false visual.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2019, 11:42:42 AM »
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

All of you have effectively agreed with my point.

NASA produces images that do not accurately depict things in a true way.

It is a false visual.
A false visual taken with a camera on the ISS.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2019, 11:57:26 AM »
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

All of you have effectively agreed with my point.

NASA produces images that do not accurately depict things in a true way.

It is a false visual.
A false visual taken with a camera on the ISS.
I don't care where it was taken.

It is a false visual rendering.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2019, 12:03:09 PM »
I don't care where it was taken.
You should, that's the point. If I take a photo of something with a fish eye lens then it might not truly reflect reality - in the sense that straight lines may appear curved - but I still have to be looking at the something.
Where the photo is taken from is pretty much the entire point - NASA are claiming these photos are from space, as are many other space agencies both national and private.
If that claim is true and the photos are taken from the ISS which is orbiting the earth then the earth isn't flat.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline BillO

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2019, 07:00:51 PM »
Just as a point of discussion folks, if you take a picture of a globe with a circular fisheye lens, there is only perspective distortion (close things look closer - far things look farther).  The perspective distortion of an earth image from 400km would be fairly intense and would tend to exaggerate objects (land masses/seas/clouds) that are nearest the camera.  However a fisheye lens would not distort the shape of a globe.
Here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

Quote from: Tom Bishop - Zetetic Council Member
The moon's orbital path has a diameter of 768,000 km. That is almost one million miles.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2019, 07:19:17 PM »
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

All of you have effectively agreed with my point.

NASA produces images that do not accurately depict things in a true way.

It is a false visual.

How can you be this slow? We've already pointed out it was a fisheye lens. I gave you link which said the photo was taken with a fisheye lens. No one here is lying or presenting it as a picture taken from the ISS with a normal camera. It is explicitly said to be taken with a fisheye lens. And how does one image prove NASA's other images are fake? You have provided no evidence this one image is representative of NASA's other images.

In fact, let's test you. You claim NASA's other images are fake. Enlighten us with your superior photoanalysis that does not even take into account the kind of camera or lens used.

This is a picture taken with the Earth Polychromatic Imaging Camera onboard NOAA's Deep Space Climate Observatory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Space_Climate_Observatory)  orbiting the earth.

Image link: https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/archive/natural/2019/02/13/png/epic_1b_20190213002713.png

The image isn't a composite or anything, it's one single frame. Tell us why it's fake without falling back to handwaving.


We are smarter than those scientists.
Hmm. So Tom Bishop is a Russian spy. That would explain why he is so dedicated.

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Offline stack

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2019, 04:46:25 AM »
totallackey is under the conspiratorial impression that all images in or from space are conjured with the express and sole intent to further convince the masses that the earth is a globe. No other purpose than that. Not that we might ever use such data gathering for real purposes other than perpetuating the ruse.

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #57 on: February 15, 2019, 12:37:32 PM »
I believe a great deal of the "information," in the images.

I do not believe the compilation of the "information," is correct and much of it is altered to render a false visual.

All of you have effectively agreed with my point.

NASA produces images that do not accurately depict things in a true way.

It is a false visual.

How can you be this slow?
I am not slow.
We've already pointed out it was a fisheye lens.
You got a mouse in your pocket?

Are you royalty?

Who tf is "we"?

Are you writing for others or the alts you have?
I gave you link which said the photo was taken with a fisheye lens. No one here is lying or presenting it as a picture taken from the ISS with a normal camera. It is explicitly said to be taken with a fisheye lens.
How can you be so slow?

I never claimed it was taken by any particular sort of camera.

You and supposedly other legitimate RE adherents have offered the type of camera used.

I write "supposedly legitimate," due to the fact you use the word,"we."
And how does one image prove NASA's other images are fake?
How can you be so slow?

I have, for the record, never stated in this thread any NASA images are fake, including the two I presented.

I have stated NASA images provide a false visual rendering of the subject matter.
You have provided no evidence this one image is representative of NASA's other images.
Don't need to.
In fact, let's test you. You claim NASA's other images are fake.
Again, where have I claimed NASA's other images are fake?

I have provided two images (purported to be from NASA) in response to a query posed by AATW:
OK, and what is your evidence for that belief and what are your qualifications and expertise in this area?
Surely that belief is based on something?

Enlighten us with your superior photoanalysis that does not even take into account the kind of camera or lens used.
First, enlighten the readers you have the ability to be intellectually and philosophically consistent.

Then I may consider writing down what you assign to me that I have never claimed to posses.

I have merely claimed I DO NOT NEED TO POSSESS superior photoanalysis skills when it comes recognizing NASA admitting to issuing composites, layered and shaded photographs, and other forms of BS.
This is a picture taken with the Earth Polychromatic Imaging Camera onboard NOAA's Deep Space Climate Observatory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Space_Climate_Observatory)  orbiting the earth.
Yeah, so?

Does that look like an image produced by, "10 different channels from ultraviolet to near-infrared."

Doesn't to me.

It looks like it has undergone further rendering.
Image link: https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/archive/natural/2019/02/13/png/epic_1b_20190213002713.png

The image isn't a composite or anything, it's one single frame. Tell us why it's fake without falling back to handwaving.
Same with this image.

According to your own source, EPIC uses: "The Earth Polychromatic Imaging Camera (EPIC) takes images of the sunlit side of Earth for various Earth science monitoring purposes in 10 different channels from ultraviolet to near-infrared."

So the final image, as you present, must, by definition, be further rendered.

No telling what the rendering process produces.

In other words, a false VISUAL RENDERING, just like I originally wrote.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 03:32:58 PM by totallackey »

Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #58 on: February 15, 2019, 12:40:39 PM »
totallackey is under the conspiratorial impression that all images in or from space are conjured with the express and sole intent to further convince the masses that the earth is a globe. No other purpose than that. Not that we might ever use such data gathering for real purposes other than perpetuating the ruse.
There is nothing conspiratorial about my impression.

I have presented enough evidence, as have RE adherents in this very thread, that photo manipulation occurs across the board.

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: An opportunity to prove NASA images are fake!
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2019, 12:55:55 PM »
Totallackey is either trolling or doesn't understand, there is no reason to continue talking to him about this as he's unwilling to learn. Given he doesn't understand the difference between the pixel size of a bitmap image and a screen resolution I doubt he understands much to do with images or 'rendering' in general. He fails this thought experiment.