Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #220 on: September 02, 2014, 05:37:47 PM »
And no, we don't raise the cry of anti-Semitism unless that's what it is. Criticism of Israel is one thing. But when you start demanding that Israel behave in a way that NO other nation would behave, THAT is anti-Semitism. Any nation on earth, when directly attacked with rockets, would respond by sending troops to stop those rockets. Any government that failed to do this would be very quickly removed from power by its own people, either democratically or by force, for failure to lead.

And, yes, yes, I know, I am going to hear about Occupation. Well, Israel left Gaza in 2005. Completely left it. And had to partially re-enter in terms of taking control of the borders, the skies, and the water in 2007 when a terrorist organisation was given control by the people who live there.

A good rule of thumb is the following: If you don't want your neighbours to become alarmed and take control of your shit, don't elect terrorists as your leaders. This applies whether you live in Gaza or in Mexico.

I mean, come on, people, think. How hard is it to come up with common sense rules regarding people that want to fuck up your day?


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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #221 on: September 02, 2014, 05:56:44 PM »
And no, we don't raise the cry of anti-Semitism unless that's what it is. Criticism of Israel is one thing. But when you start demanding that Israel behave in a way that NO other nation would behave, THAT is anti-Semitism. Any nation on earth, when directly attacked with rockets, would respond by sending troops to stop those rockets. Any government that failed to do this would be very quickly removed from power by its own people, either democratically or by force, for failure to lead.

And, yes, yes, I know, I am going to hear about Occupation. Well, Israel left Gaza in 2005. Completely left it. And had to partially re-enter in terms of taking control of the borders, the skies, and the water in 2007 when a terrorist organisation was given control by the people who live there.

A good rule of thumb is the following: If you don't want your neighbours to become alarmed and take control of your shit, don't elect terrorists as your leaders. This applies whether you live in Gaza or in Mexico.

I mean, come on, people, think. How hard is it to come up with common sense rules regarding people that want to fuck up your day?



The please tell me how I was being Anti-Semitic.  I think any nation that sanctions their citizens to squat on land whose rights have been signed away by bi-lateral treaty is not behaving properly.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #222 on: September 02, 2014, 06:42:19 PM »
Israel is literally perfect and anyone who dislikes it simply does so because it has Jews in it. But don't say it's a Jewish state, or they'll counter with "we do have some arabs, so we're totally like, not a Jewish state."

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #223 on: September 02, 2014, 08:13:50 PM »
Israel has always stated that land would possibly be used for the natural growth of settlements. Aside from that, treaties cease to be valid when one of the signatories starts launching rockets at the other. Then, all is fair in love and war.

Incidentally, I am not an Israeli, but an English Jew living in the American Midwest State of Iowa.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 08:34:51 PM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #224 on: September 02, 2014, 10:44:44 PM »
I'm back on my feet again, at least temporarily.

What's this? A Jew back from the dead?

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #225 on: September 03, 2014, 12:50:46 AM »
To my knowledge, Jews in Jerusalem do NOT include those words in Passover Seders. Furthermore, in Orthodox & Conservative prayer books, daily prayers are rendered for the return of our People to Israel, as well as a prayer for the State of Israel. It seems pretty clear that Jews always claimed ownership of the Land.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/274826/jewish/Next-Year-in-Jerusalem.htm
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/holidays/Jewish_Holidays/Passover/The_Seder/Conducting_a_Seder/After_the_Meal/Next_Year_in_Jerusalem.shtml
http://www.vox.com/cards/everything-need-to-know-passover-moses-seder/why-are-you-supposed-to-say-next-year-in-jerusalem

Those three links seem to contradict your knowledge.
It seems that they see Jerusalem as an Ideal, a wish, or with a rebuilt temple.

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Furthermore, in Orthodox & Conservative prayer books, daily prayers are rendered for the return of our People to Israel, as well as a prayer for the State of Israel.
Can you give me the name of the prayer because I can't seem to find any that pray for the return of people to Israel.


I'd like to point out that the US has had a very real and threatening buildup of weapons at it's doorstep.
Cuban Missile Crisis.  Not that I expect you to understand.

I'm really really glad that JFK wasn't a Jew.  I'd have never been born.  Of course, Israel would have been destroyed in the process.  So maybe there would be peace by now?

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #226 on: September 03, 2014, 03:12:34 AM »
JFK was prob. the single worst thing that ever happened to the US. Much as I don't recommend assassinating people in general, in his case (& his brother) it was a blessing. Look up the Artscroll Siddur & Siddur Sim Shalom for prayers re: the State of Israel & returning to our Land. I'm too sick to do it for you right now, as those books are in boxes yet to be unpacked.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #227 on: September 03, 2014, 10:33:13 AM »
JFK was prob. the single worst thing that ever happened to the US. Much as I don't recommend assassinating people in general, in his case (& his brother) it was a blessing.
Citation needed.

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Look up the Artscroll Siddur & Siddur Sim Shalom for prayers re: the State of Israel & returning to our Land. I'm too sick to do it for you right now, as those books are in boxes yet to be unpacked.
Both of these are modern prayer books.  The Siddur Sim Shalom even touts passages celebrating Israel's existance and has works about the holocaust.

I'll wait until you can give me an actual prayer name, not a book published in the last 20 years.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #228 on: September 03, 2014, 11:21:06 AM »
You really aren't that bright. Both books are modern, but especially in the case of the Artscroll, the prayers have gone mostly unchanged in about 500 years. Granted, the Prayer for the State of Israel is fairly new, no one disputes that. The Baum Prayer Book is actually the one I have. There isn't much difference between that and the Artscroll Siddur.

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Offline Lemon

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #229 on: September 03, 2014, 02:18:09 PM »
  • Think you're the greatest group of people on earth
  • kill or oppress others that don't suit this group
  • are nazi

  • Think you're the greatest group of people on earth
  • kill or oppress others that don't suit this group
  • are israeli jew
NOTHING TO SEE HERE. IGNORE RAMA SET.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #230 on: September 03, 2014, 02:30:52 PM »
Even if that WERE accurate, which it is not, I am not an Israeli. By the way: Godwin's Law. You lose.

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Offline Lemon

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #231 on: September 03, 2014, 02:34:52 PM »
Do I lose or does Godwin win? I'm going to go with the latter. Regardless, it is common to compare Israel to Nazi Germany due to the similarities.
NOTHING TO SEE HERE. IGNORE RAMA SET.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #232 on: September 03, 2014, 03:13:35 PM »
Since there are no similarities, the comparison falls under Godwin's Law. Israel is NOT engaging in genocide. The "Palestinian" population has increased at least 4-fold since 1948, from 750,000 to 4,000,000 today. This number does not include Israeli Arabs.

If Israel wanted to commit genocide, it would be VERY easy to do. The so-called "Palestinians" are confined in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It would not be hard to carpet bomb both areas to smithereens within about a week, thus eliminating the residents.

Lets face it: Hitler killed 6 million Jews in 12 years, 2/3 of Europe's Jews. If Israel is trying to commit genocide, and can't even do as well as Hitler did, then they obviously suck at it, since they have had 47 years to try.

The so-called "Palestinian Territories" are the only occupied territory in the world where the occupied are allowed to bring suit against the occupier in the occupier's Supreme Court, where in fact, they often win. Try doing that in Tibet.

So, yes, you do lose based on Godwin's Law, and you end up looking like a schmuck.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #233 on: September 03, 2014, 03:27:45 PM »
Good so then you admit that it is an occupied territory as opposed to Israel's domain.  We are getting somewhere.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #234 on: September 03, 2014, 03:31:49 PM »
I freely admit it is occupied territory. But it belongs to Israel. The fact is, all the "Palestinians" living there should be deported, with six months living wages, and eminent domain for any property they would lose, to the Arab country of there choice. Those who refuse to leave should be shot. The IDF HAS to occupy it since the wrong people are squatting there. Hence the need for military occupation. But yes, it is a military occupation. No one disputes that.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #235 on: September 03, 2014, 06:50:43 PM »
You really aren't that bright. Both books are modern, but especially in the case of the Artscroll, the prayers have gone mostly unchanged in about 500 years. Granted, the Prayer for the State of Israel is fairly new, no one disputes that. The Baum Prayer Book is actually the one I have. There isn't much difference between that and the Artscroll Siddur.
It was new and in crisp modern writing.  Or so the description said.
I can't read the books for their prayer content without purchasing said book.  So if you would be so kind as to ...

Wait.  500 years?  That's it?
What happened to the previous 1,200?  Or 3,500?  Wouldn't a prayer having faith in returning to Israel have to be almost 2,000 years old for Jews to not have lost hope?

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Offline markjo

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #236 on: September 03, 2014, 07:41:24 PM »
The fact is, all the "Palestinians" living there should be deported, with six months living wages, and eminent domain for any property they would lose, to the Arab country of there choice.
What if their Arab country of choice is Palestine?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #237 on: September 03, 2014, 09:30:07 PM »
LORD DAVE, as soon as I am feeling better, I shall access my books. The prayers of the Siddur assumed FINAL FORM around 500 years ago. Since then, the book hasn't altered. However, most of the prayers in it go back much further, 1000, 1500, even 2000 or more years.

Yes, I do see your problem. Knowing how expensive those books are, I wouldn't want to purchase them either unless I had some use for them beyond a discussion with someone online. I have the Baum Siddur that I got hold of here and there, the content of which is basically the same as the Artscroll. Only the Introduction and whatnot would be different. The footnoting might also be different.

I'll see what I can find in the next few days when I feel better. Not today though. For the moment, I shall withdraw my accusation of your not being that bright. (:

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #238 on: September 03, 2014, 10:51:26 PM »
The fact is, all the "Palestinians" living there should be deported,

Why are you putting Palestinians in scare quotes?

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Offline Lemon

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #239 on: September 03, 2014, 10:52:38 PM »
The fact is, all the "Palestinians" living there should be deported,

Why are you putting Palestinians in scare quotes?

Maybe because he sees them as Arabs that don't belong there and as such there isn't really a Palestinian? Only Arabs living in Israel under unique conditions?
NOTHING TO SEE HERE. IGNORE RAMA SET.