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Offline Lemon

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #260 on: September 04, 2014, 04:36:02 PM »
I'm impressed by how much you just wrote, regardless of content.
NOTHING TO SEE HERE. IGNORE RAMA SET.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #261 on: September 04, 2014, 04:52:00 PM »
Desire to reside in a location does not trump ownership.  No American wants to live in Louisiana, it's a backward shit hole, this doesn't mean we would be okay with the UN handing it back to the French.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #262 on: September 04, 2014, 07:04:33 PM »
Jews have always owned Eretz Israel. Throughout 4500 years of history, Jews have had the longest connection to the land than any other group in history. As indicated above, the Arabs, and later the Turks, treated it as a backwater. They are newcomers to the territory, displacing the native Jewish population. Only in the 20th century, AFTER the establishment of the State of Israel, did any Arab begin to think of himself as a "Palestinian". Until 1967, the West Bank was under Jordanian rule, and the Gaza Strip was controlled by Egypt. Neither nation had any real desire to control either area. Both considered the areas as backwaters, basically pits to which incompetents got sent to administrate. The people living there were treated the same as the land in which they lived.

The only reason that anybody gives a rat's ass about the "Palestinian" problem is the left over anti-Semitism of bygone days. For the most part, it is politically incorrect in the US to hate Jews (some Jew hatred is tolerated in Europe, but not too much; more in the Eastern part than in the West, but not huge amounts thereof, at least not at present). However, it is politically ok in both Europe and in the US to hate Israel.

Of course, the people who hate Israel claim not to hate Jews. They claim that their hatred is reserved only for "Zionism" or for "Israel" or for some PC term such as "apartheid" even though there is absolutely no similarity between the South African variety of racial separation and anything that occurs in Israel and the Occupied Territories. It should be noted that the UN, however useless it may be, even said that their earlier declaration that Zionism was racism was in fact not true. That statement was retracted in the early 1990's.

Even the claim that hating Israel's governmental decisions, while possibly valid in its own way (after all, no one has to agree with every decision a government makes), often turns into Jew hatred. The people who despise the Government of Israel end up demanding that said Government behave in ways that NO government on Earth would behave. Israel already treats the Arabs of the Occupied Territories far better than any occupying power ever has in history.

In what other part of the world, at any time in history, has an occupying power allowed the occupied population to bring suit against it, even against the military itself, in that power's own Supreme Court, which in fact, often renders decisions IN FAVOUR of the occupied? Try doing that in Tibet.

What occupying power unilaterally leaves a territory as Israel did in 2005, pulling ALL of its military, citizens, etc, leaving its entire civilian infrastructure in place for the native population to use as they saw fit? They left a fully functioning horticultural industry, which of course, Hamas destroyed in order to use the materials for weapons against Israel. THAT is why, two years later, Israel had to retake control of the borders, the water border, and the air of Gaza, NOT because they wanted to. Hamas was importing weapons for use against Israel.

What military power fights a war that actually warns civilians to get out of the way before dropping ordnance on buildings and the like, which Israel does by leaflets, phone calls, text messages, and roof knocking? The fact that civilians end up killed is because Hamas refuses to let them leave, and even uses them as shields, and often puts military material in civilian things such as schools and mosques?

What other Government, when rockets are raining down on their civilian population, would be told to NOT do anything to stop it? If Mexico were shooting rockets at San Diego and Los Angeles, and other cities in the Southwest USA, the USA WOULD respond by bombing the living shit out of them, and everyone knows it. But for some reason, Israel is expected to take it.

So, I ask you my friends, to think. Think long and hard. What is the new anti-Semitism? I put it to you: it is the hatred of Israel that is so talked about at our left wing universities. It is the new style mindset that sits in the minds of our liberal politicians both here Stateside and in Europe. It is obviously in the mind of the radical Nazi minded Right, but they have their own weird racial theories that every sane person knows are crazy.

No, I tell you my friends, it is the supposedly enlightened left that we must fear today. So what will you do? Continue to be blinded by the bullshit? You can do that. And you can stand before God on Judgement Day and be asked, where were you when the one State in the Middle East that is worth a shit got stomped on, and to face another Holocaust, and yes, they won, because they always have, Jews are like that, they always find a way to kick some ass, but how many had to die first? Or will you stand now and fight for that State and what is right and decent against all the dictators and kings and other assholes that dominate that region and the horrors they represent? The choice is yours. If you make the wrong one, your future may be what an ISIS defector just said today.

First, they will make a caliphate of the Arab world. Then, they will go after other countries. Make your choice. And make it now.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #263 on: September 04, 2014, 08:15:24 PM »
The US wouldn't indiscriminately bomb civilians with military targets. You have to minimize civilian casualties in a conflict these days or else you are seen to be a vile country, see Israel. No one is arguing they shouldn't defend themselves, just that they shouldn't be looking civilians by the thousands.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #264 on: September 04, 2014, 08:22:12 PM »
Read Paragraph Seven (7).

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #265 on: September 04, 2014, 08:24:30 PM »
It's irrelevant.  You don't kill the hostages to solve a hostage situation.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #266 on: September 04, 2014, 08:30:46 PM »
If someone is using a rocket launcher to kill your people, and you have to stop that from happening, and you know there are people there, and you want them to leave, but they do not leave, then it is your right to remove the rocket launcher, even if you know that the people attached to it will die as a result. This is what happens in wars. At least, this is what happens in wars that are fought in any sane way. The USA and Britain did not apologise for bombing Berlin or Dresden. The USA did not apologise for bombing Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Shit happens, dude. That's why its not a good idea to fight a war when you know you can't win it.

Ghost of V

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #267 on: September 04, 2014, 08:31:48 PM »
I'm still waiting for an answer to my question. If it was somewhere in that drivel up there then forgive me.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #268 on: September 04, 2014, 08:44:42 PM »
The US has repeatedly been criticised for the use of nuclear weapons.  Notice how those were the only two times a nation has actually used nuclear weapons.  Also, Israel has lost how many civilians in this current conflict, I'd have to double check but I think it's on the scale of 10s. The threat is there but Israel has a solid defense system to where they don't have to worry too much.  Meanwhile thousands of Palestinians have been murdered by Israeli rockets.  UN establishments have been targets of Israel.  The first time it happens you might be able to say oops, but the UN should have stepped on Israel the second time it happened.  They have zero concern for human life other than their own.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #269 on: September 04, 2014, 08:48:56 PM »
QUOTE: "Damn. 2 million people? No possible way Judaism could be wrong now.


Why don't such miracles and revelations happen in modern times? Has Yahweh abandoned us?"

I'm sorry! I forgot about that question. I shall try to answer it. Many people have asked themselves that. Why don't miracles of that nature occur today? Well, I can't say why they don't occur to non-Jews.

Here's the thing, Vauxhall. As a Jew, I know what God has commanded me, as a Jew, to do. I know what He has taught us, as our God, and we, as his People, to expect in our relationship with him. This not to say that I have direct telephone line to the Deity (boy, wouldn't that be nice). It is merely to say that the Jewish Bible contains within it all the revealed material that God has given to the People Israel. That material is what we NEED to know in order to please God, and to live up to our part of the Covenant. The Talmud and all that just explain the Bible. And God knows, the Talmud itself is 20 volumes long and takes up a HUGE amount of space on a bookshelf! And that is not the ONLY literature. There is so much that our Rabbis and other scholars have written trying to understand and probe and explain the Bible, and the Jewish Law, and Custom, and Jewish Life, and so-forth.

So why hasn't God caused miracles like that sort of thing to happen now? For us, the answer is simple: they are not necessary. As the Sages say: After Malachi, the Prophecy passed out of Israel. Now we live by what we have. We don't need more.

As for the non-Jews? I don't know. I don't know what God has taught them, or not taught them. I don't know what prophets or sages or wise ones he may have sent to them, although I expect that he did indeed send people. I am inclined to believe that men such as the Buddha, Mahavira, Gandhi, Confucius, and so-forth, were sent by God as Prophets to their own people, and that they taught them in ways that they could understand. But that is pure speculation on my part. I could be full of crap on that. I don't know.

I hope that answers your question. I apologise for not responding sooner.

Duck, as I said, when Israel suspects that Hamas is hiding something in a school, UN or otherwise (as they so often do, even in UN schools, as has been proven on more than one occasion), that renders it a valid military target. And since the UN has no right to even exist, the notion of them stomping on anybody is a bad joke.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #270 on: September 04, 2014, 08:59:22 PM »
The member nations of the UN would surely say it has a right to exist but whatever.  Would you be condemning hamas for the murder of civilians if an Israeli military target was hit along with an Israeli school killing 25 children?  Ignore any real life evidence of anything and deal with the hypothetical.  I'm sure you would so you should be equally condemning Israel's murder of thousands.  Regardless of evacuation notices and such, if intelligence says civilians are present, an alternate method needs to be employed of removing the threat.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #271 on: September 04, 2014, 09:01:24 PM »
The key difference being that Israel doesn't put military shit anywhere near civilian shit. See that difference?

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #272 on: September 04, 2014, 09:05:55 PM »
You obviously didn't read my post or know what a hypothetical is.  Go back and read it again and give an honest answer.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #273 on: September 04, 2014, 09:10:56 PM »
I know what a hypothetical is. But such a hypothetical could never occur for a couple of reasons.

1. Jews are not stupid (for the most part).
2. Jews are ethical (for the most part).
3. Jews are strategically minded (for the most part).

In other words, a smart, ethical, strategically thinking Jew knows that it is very unwise to put civilians around military equipment. However, A Jew ALSO knows that if you DO put civilians around military equipment, and your enemy comes and bombs your shit, and kills your civilians that should not have been around your military equipment, you have no one to blame but yourself.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #274 on: September 04, 2014, 09:49:28 PM »
In the US, when someone with rockets is firing on a position, the US government sends in elite soldiers to neutralize the threat.
In Israel, they just blow up the area around the rocket and hope it works.

Imagine if the US simply bombed abbottabad instead of just sending in Seal Team 6?

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #275 on: September 04, 2014, 09:53:59 PM »
The word "Palestine" was invented by the Romans after they defeated the Jews and exiled most of them (not all) from the Land.

The sense of entitlement is strong in this one.

Dude. Borders change. Please get over yourself.

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Online Rama Set

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Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #276 on: September 04, 2014, 09:56:38 PM »
There is a difference between a valid military target and carte Blanche to kill everyone inside said target. See Duck's comment about collateral damage if you are confused. The development of the smart bomb was, in part, to alleviate this concern.

As to your claim that Jew's have always owned Israel, that is false and your own history bears that out. The Jews came down as a bunch of murderers and left no one alive and/or unraped.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #277 on: September 04, 2014, 10:01:07 PM »
The problem with that is that Abbottabad was ONE target. Israel is facing hundreds. You can't send special forces in to take out hundreds of targets. The next comment about borders has already been dealt with and needs no response here.

Frankly, a legitimate military target renders anything in it a part of that target. Collateral damage is unfortunate, but such is life. See the bombing of Berlin or Dresden as an example. 

As for the manner in which the Hebrews ENTERED the Land, 4500 years ago, wars were fought pretty fucking brutally. Such is life. Get over it.

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #278 on: September 04, 2014, 10:06:26 PM »
As for the manner in which the Hebrews ENTERED the Land, 4500 years ago, wars were fought pretty fucking brutally. Such is life. Get over it.

You seem to be arguing that might is right.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Jew anything.
« Reply #279 on: September 04, 2014, 10:07:42 PM »
No, I am just acknowledging reality.