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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« Last post by Lord Dave on Today at 05:06:55 PM »

the federal government is actually extremely limited in its direct control of education. it's a 10th amendment issue.

that's why the fed always has to resort to "do what we say or we'll withhold federal dollary-doos from y'allery-youse" to fuck with education shit. they can't just direct public schools to teach x/y/z.

^
This.

They have general things like "Kids must learn Math"
But can't tell you how to teach it.  They can give guidelines (and god do they) but thats it.

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Suggestions & Concerns / Re: #justiceforRonJ

« Last post by Pete Svarrior on Today at 04:36:31 PM »

Deal with the subject matter.

The subject matter has been dealt with. Every member of staff reviewed the issue individually, and the agreement reached was that the rules were executed properly, within a reasonable use of moderator discretion. You are perfectly entitled to dislike this, but ultimately, the site is run by its owners, not by you.

You claim to represent "the community" - I'll defer you to garygreen's comment in this thread. You represent nobody but yourself, and nobody is buying your holier-than-thou attitude. Roundy has made some interesting points about the letter vs. spirit of the rules, and I'll see if we can tighten the phrasing in some occasions. In the meantime, your "do as I say or else I'll keep shitting all over the forum" attitude has run its course.

You made yourself perfectly clear yesterday. You don't give a damn about this site or its users. What you care about is starting trouble and "winning", even if it comes at the cost of wrecking the place. We are not going to waste any more time on you or your concern-trolling.

Thread locked.

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Suggestions & Concerns / Re: #justiceforRonJ

« Last post by Toddler Thork on Today at 04:33:06 PM »

Stop derailing the thread with your nonsense about trolling. Deal with the subject matter. Your application of rule 2 when a user was well within their rights subject to rule 1. We've already established that the rules are more important that your useless personal judgement. That's why we have rules. Rules first, judgement second. Rules FIRST.

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Suggestions & Concerns / Re: #justiceforRonJ

« Last post by Pete Svarrior on Today at 04:30:14 PM »

I'm sorry to hear you feel that way. Of course, I know you actually don't. How you actually feel is something you already described for all of us.

Now, please stop trolling S&C.

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Suggestions & Concerns / Re: #justiceforRonJ

« Last post by Toddler Thork on Today at 04:29:06 PM »

Fix the mess you made with Ronj. You gave him a 5 week ban because you and the mod team don't respect the rules of the forum or the manifesto.

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Suggestions & Concerns / Re: #justiceforRonJ

« Last post by Pete Svarrior on Today at 04:26:36 PM »

Now, I'd like to direct you to item 4 of the manifesto

In all decisions, you shall defer to the rules as written rather than relying on your personal judgment.

You might want continue reading.

Thork, last night you openly admitted that this is nothing but another one of your trolling stunts. Deleting the post doesn't change that. Please take a break to clean up your underwear and come back when you're done dealing with whatever personal crap sent you on this mission.

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Suggestions & Concerns / Re: #justiceforRonJ

« Last post by Toddler Thork on Today at 03:59:02 PM »

In other words, despite moderators frequently asking users to familiarise themselves with the rules, that's actually a waste of time because they interpret, or one might say make them up on the fly, as they feel like on any given day. In fact, there isn't even any point in the rules because

something isn't mentioned expressly in the rules doesn't mean it can't happen, likewise, just because strict wording of the rules might protect certain behavior doesn't mean a moderator can't just remove bad actors anyway.

so rules are added and ignored by whoever feels like being a dick to the other users on the site. So this begs a new question ... if there aren't any rules ... why do we have mods? We'd be better off without you.


Now, I'd like to direct you to item 4 of the manifesto

In all decisions, you shall defer to the rules as written rather than relying on your personal judgment.

Which is the exact opposite of

As typical guidelines for behavior subject to the interpretation of moderators and admins.

So you are supposed to use the rules and not your god awful personal judgement. And if you don't like that, please have a read of item 2 of the manifesto.

At any time, you may revoke your agreement to this or any other version of the manifesto by resigning your position on the forum.

Follow the rules or resign. You can choose. 


Now we know you are supposed to use the rules, back to Ronj ....

As has been stated numerous times in the past, bans are issued for patterns of behaviour, not isolated incidents. RonJ can either demonstrate good faith by improving his behaviour, or he can continue doing what he just did and keep getting banned for it. The choice is his.

Which is the exact opposite of

You shall apply the same rules equivalently to all members on the forum, without invoking your personal opinion of a member, their posting history or any factor other than the rules and their behaviour in the situation at hand.

Unban Ronj. Your justifications have all been in contradiction to the manifesto which was put in place to prevent the mod team terrorising the user base via

a totalitarian dictatorship and we mods are police that are mad with power.

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« Last post by garygreen on Today at 03:33:41 PM »

the federal government is actually extremely limited in its direct control of education. it's a 10th amendment issue.

that's why the fed always has to resort to "do what we say or we'll withhold federal dollary-doos from y'allery-youse" to fuck with education shit. they can't just direct public schools to teach x/y/z.

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« Last post by Rushy on Today at 01:56:09 PM »

The federal government already has primary control over what's taught in state schools. It's called the Department of Education and, as far as I know, it's not exactly a new thing.

They do not, actually.

Some national professional or educational policy organizations have suggested standards and curricula, but there are no federal national standards for any academic area. Education is mainly a state and local responsibility in the Unites States. When the Department of Education was created, Congress made clear that the secretary of education and other Department officials be prohibited from imposing "any direction, supervision, or control over the curriculum program of instruction, administration, or personnel of any educational institution, school, or school system." (20 USC 3403). It is left to the states to create standards while States and local agencies develop curricula. To determine specific standards or curricula in your state, please contact your state department of education.

https://www.ed.gov/answers/

They do, actually. I didn't say state and local governments have zero control, just that the federal government has primary control. If the federal government tells schools "you must do X" then they must, as state law cannot override federal law. How stringent that control is maintained is up to the Department of Education.

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Suggestions & Concerns / Re: #justiceforRonJ

« Last post by Rushy on Today at 01:51:14 PM »

The rules aren't, and shouldn't be, read like they're legal rights in a court of law.

Interesting. How should they be read?

As typical guidelines for behavior subject to the interpretation of moderators and admins. Just because something isn't mentioned expressly in the rules doesn't mean it can't happen, likewise, just because strict wording of the rules might protect certain behavior doesn't mean a moderator can't just remove bad actors anyway. Ultimately this is a totalitarian dictatorship and we mods are police that are mad with power.