Recent Posts

11
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why is there no standard map of the earth?
« Last post by Mark Antony on February 26, 2021, 11:21:16 PM »
I don't think there is a standard RE map. There seem to be several different ones if you look for them. Many of them offer a very euro-centric view of the world with Europe given greater space than is accurate. How can RE maps be assumed "accurate" if they have these inbuilt biases? FE maps should avoid this pitfall I think.
BTW I'm new so go easy on me!

The ‘standard RE map’ is a globe.

Everything else suffers from some sort of error, and which errors you choose to live with depends on what you need the map for and, yes, bias certainly creeps in - witness the fact that we choose to orientate the earth north-up, for example.

However, the fact that it is impossible to accurately represent a globe earth on a flat map is not in any way an argument to support the contention that the earth isn’t a globe.

Flat earth, on the other hand, shouldn’t have any such problem - it should be easy to create a map of the world, with distances and bearings all accurately represented. The fact is that it can’t be done, and there’s a very good reason for that.

How are you so confident that the "standard" round earth map is so accurate?

I've seen this baseless and shallow argument pop up countless times in these forums.
12
Flat Earth Investigations / Where is the sun at night?
« Last post by jimster on February 26, 2021, 10:31:49 PM »
On a clear night, I can see stars over the entire sky. Where is the FE sun? Seems like it can't be anywhere in the sky if I can see stars over the entire dome. Yet in other places, the sky is light blue and the sun is clearly visible. Even if the light shines directionally downward as a beam and doesn't travel far enough that I can see it when it is night here, I can still see stars in every direction. Why does the sun not block the stars wherever it is up there? Why does the sunlight not get to the entire earth when the comparatively weak light of the stars gets to me from the most distant part of the dome?

I hope some FE will explain. Thank you in advance.
13
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: An Idea for the flat earth cover-up
« Last post by stack on February 26, 2021, 09:55:02 PM »
Okay, wow, you found that conversation I've been agonizing over.   Its actually closer to 3,333miles using Australia as a benchmark From Santiago Chile to Cape Town (Please as usual point out something anomolis).

The anomaly with your map is that 3333 miles is still 1600 miles short of reality.



Distances are a bit confusing to work out.  You have a globe which is compressed and stretched into a flat map by removing the 3D sphere which then uses the same distances, but not really.  That's why Peter rightfully pointed out that Pi doesn't work on this flat map because you are using distances from a Globe Earth. 

But when I removed a second lens (or mini dome) from the standard flat map to make this, I just used acceptable distances like Australia to calculate other distances.

Distances are a bit confusing. But one of the core elements of what makes a map useful for navigation is obviously accuracy in distances. Without that, you don't have a working, useful, accurate map. If a plane only carried enough fuel to travel what you think is the distance using your map, this would happen:



Calculating fuel is an extremely important task for every flight. There's an infamous story of an Air Canada flight where the pilots calculated the fuel amount with pounds instead of by metric kilos by mistake. They actually had only half the fuel they needed for the flight from Montreal to Edmonton. They landed somewhat safely after gliding for 17 minutes from 40k feet when all engines cut out and fortunately found a runway.

So how do you reconcile the distance inaccuracies in your map?
14
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why is there no standard map of the earth?
« Last post by SteelyBob on February 26, 2021, 09:53:08 PM »
I don't think there is a standard RE map. There seem to be several different ones if you look for them. Many of them offer a very euro-centric view of the world with Europe given greater space than is accurate. How can RE maps be assumed "accurate" if they have these inbuilt biases? FE maps should avoid this pitfall I think.
BTW I'm new so go easy on me!

The ‘standard RE map’ is a globe.

Everything else suffers from some sort of error, and which errors you choose to live with depends on what you need the map for and, yes, bias certainly creeps in - witness the fact that we choose to orientate the earth north-up, for example.

However, the fact that it is impossible to accurately represent a globe earth on a flat map is not in any way an argument to support the contention that the earth isn’t a globe.

Flat earth, on the other hand, shouldn’t have any such problem - it should be easy to create a map of the world, with distances and bearings all accurately represented. The fact is that it can’t be done, and there’s a very good reason for that.
15
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why is there no standard map of the earth?
« Last post by Elyn95 on February 26, 2021, 09:26:11 PM »
I don't think there is a standard RE map. There seem to be several different ones if you look for them. Many of them offer a very euro-centric view of the world with Europe given greater space than is accurate. How can RE maps be assumed "accurate" if they have these inbuilt biases? FE maps should avoid this pitfall I think.
BTW I'm new so go easy on me!
16
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: An Idea for the flat earth cover-up
« Last post by MetaTron on February 26, 2021, 09:00:22 PM »
Okay, wow, you found that conversation I've been agonizing over.   Its actually closer to 3,333miles using Australia as a benchmark From Santiago Chile to Cape Town (Please as usual point out something anomolis).

Distances are a bit confusing to work out.  You have a globe which is compressed and stretched into a flat map by removing the 3D sphere which then uses the same distances, but not really.  That's why Peter rightfully pointed out that Pi doesn't work on this flat map because you are using distances from a Globe Earth. 

But when I removed a second lens (or mini dome) from the standard flat map to make this, I just used acceptable distances like Australia to calculate other distances.
17
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: An Idea for the flat earth cover-up
« Last post by stack on February 26, 2021, 07:49:34 PM »
I'm not sure how this conversation developed into a maps topic but here goes.

All topics end up as a maps topic in the end :)

Please see the attached photo.  I estimate the equator to be about 21,333 miles, tropic of cancer about 28k, and Capricorn at 13,333miles.

OK, so one Tropic is more than 2x the length of the other, with the Equator in the middle. And if you stand on any one of these at the right time of year, the Sun will pass directly overhead and then pass directly overhead again exactly 24 hours later. And because the length of these three circles is different, the Sun must be travelling at different speeds in order to make it back to the start at the same time. So the speed of the Sun much be constantly changing throughout the year. And we are not talking about small changes in speed. The Sun must move twice as fast at the December solstice as it does at the June solstice.

Peter, I'm sorry this wasn't clear, but I believe the Sun is centered and stationary over the south pole, but the earth tilts towards the sun at an angle to explain its position directly over the equator and tropics.  The sun doesn't change speed, but its apparent speed changes depending on how far away you are from it.  And you are aware this is a Antarctica centered projection?  The distance the sun travels in winter is shorter then in summer

The problem is that the Sun very clearly doesn't' change speeds throughout the year, not least because it would change the length of the day.

There is also the small fact that it would be pretty easy to measure each Tropic with sufficient accuracy to show that one is (or is not) twice the length of the other.

that's not totally true.  If you attempted to fly over the equator and tropics it would be A lot of water which is not an easy frame of reference

So the reason that maps keep coming up is that it is not possible to make an accurate map of the flat Earth because of simple geometric problems like this. Another obvious issue is the difference between the length of the Equator (40,000Km) and the distance from Equator to North Pole (10,000Km). Pi does not equal 40,000/20,000.

In this map, it is about 16cm around and 5cm across.  16/5 = 3.2 which is close to Pi.  Or, 21,333 miles around the equator, divided by 6,666 miles in diameter which equals 3.2

I really enjoyed your critique of a flat map, but the details in this map are what sets it apart.

The devil is always in the details. The problem you still have is that some of your distances don't comport with reality. Remember this exchange:

Quote
On your map, how far is it from Santiago, Chile to Cape Town, South Africa?

It should be 1/2 the normal distance about 2,500 miles

So doesn't that call into question the accuracy of your map?

You never answered the question, if your distances don't match reality doesn't that call into question the accuracy of your map?
18
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Help me understand how light rays travel
« Last post by jimster on February 26, 2021, 07:24:53 PM »
Thank you Jack for the direct specific explanation. I do hope you read this and continue my exploration into making sense of this on FE.

Oxnard is at sea level and the boat is at sea level. Air should be equally dense. Why did the light ray not travel straight to me? Where did it go?

I would expect density bending to be a gradual proportionate process, but the top of the peak was undistorted with a sharp cutoff. How can that be?




19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: An Idea for the flat earth cover-up
« Last post by stack on February 26, 2021, 07:24:15 PM »
I think you should publish your flat earth map, if the directions and distances are correct with constant scale. Many FE maps have been made, but all have problems with direction and distance.
Every map ever used by anyone on the face of the planet has been flat and the people using them have had great success.

According to the dictionary you are wrong.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/globe

Quote
1. Usually the globe . the planet Earth.
2. a planet or other celestial body.
3. a sphere on which is depicted a map of the earth (terrestrial globe ) or of the heavens (celestial globe ).

Maps do not have to be flat.  You can buy one here if you want proof that they actually exist.

"Replogle Odessa - Blue Ocean 2-Way Map, Illuminated World Globe, Raised Relief, Up-to-Date Cartography, Made in USA"

https://www.amazon.com/Replogle-85391-Odessa-World-Globe/dp/B06WWMYRNK/
A globe is not a map.

No one uses a globe to navigate.

I do.


No, you don't.

You do not use a globe to navigate.

You use either a flat map or Google Maps or another phone app to navigate.

Why are you telling me what I use and what I don't use? How would you know? Rather presumptuous of you.

I use Google maps in Globe mode when navigating. I may zoom in and out, but it's still in globe mode. Try it, you may get to where you want to be going.

And if someone is using Google maps in non-Globe mode, it's still a Mercator projection, which is a projection of a globe. Here's how the Mercator projection from a globe works:

20
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: An Idea for the flat earth cover-up
« Last post by MetaTron on February 26, 2021, 07:15:46 PM »
I'm not sure how this conversation developed into a maps topic but here goes.

All topics end up as a maps topic in the end :)

Please see the attached photo.  I estimate the equator to be about 21,333 miles, tropic of cancer about 28k, and Capricorn at 13,333miles.

OK, so one Tropic is more than 2x the length of the other, with the Equator in the middle. And if you stand on any one of these at the right time of year, the Sun will pass directly overhead and then pass directly overhead again exactly 24 hours later. And because the length of these three circles is different, the Sun must be travelling at different speeds in order to make it back to the start at the same time. So the speed of the Sun much be constantly changing throughout the year. And we are not talking about small changes in speed. The Sun must move twice as fast at the December solstice as it does at the June solstice.

Peter, I'm sorry this wasn't clear, but I believe the Sun is centered and stationary over the south pole, but the earth tilts towards the sun at an angle to explain its position directly over the equator and tropics.  The sun doesn't change speed, but its apparent speed changes depending on how far away you are from it.  And you are aware this is a Antarctica centered projection?  The distance the sun travels in winter is shorter then in summer

The problem is that the Sun very clearly doesn't' change speeds throughout the year, not least because it would change the length of the day.

There is also the small fact that it would be pretty easy to measure each Tropic with sufficient accuracy to show that one is (or is not) twice the length of the other.

that's not totally true.  If you attempted to fly over the equator and tropics it would be A lot of water which is not an easy frame of reference

So the reason that maps keep coming up is that it is not possible to make an accurate map of the flat Earth because of simple geometric problems like this. Another obvious issue is the difference between the length of the Equator (40,000Km) and the distance from Equator to North Pole (10,000Km). Pi does not equal 40,000/20,000.

In this map, it is about 16cm around and 5cm across.  16/5 = 3.2 which is close to Pi.  Or, 21,333 miles around the equator, divided by 6,666 miles in diameter which equals 3.2

I really enjoyed your critique of a flat map, but the details in this map are what sets it apart.