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Messages - Pete Svarrior

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1
Fair enough, my apologies. In that case: I don't support the bipolar model. Antarctica is the Ice Wall

2
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 24, 2019, 07:03:10 PM »
Can or has the wall of ice encircling the earth been observed from the Western, Eastern and Northern hemiplanes, or just the Southern hemiplane?
East/west should have little bearing on how far south you are. Other than this small correction: I don't know.

Is the wall of ice encircling the earth Antarctica or is Antarctica a continent and the ice encircling the earth is distinctly its own thing?
I don't understand this question, or where it's coming from. I already said that Antarctica and the Ice Wall are different terms for the same thing. I maintain that questions like "Is Antarctica encircling Antarctica?" or "Are Antarctica and Antarctica distinct things?" are best left to philosophers.

3
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 24, 2019, 06:21:41 PM »
1) Do you believe there is a wall of ice encircling the earth?
Yes. I think this is the fourth or fifth time I'm telling you this. Let me just cut ahead a bit: Yes.

Is it sinking in yet? Is "yes" a vague word to you? If so, is there a language you're more proficient in that I could perhaps try to use?

2) If yes, what is your basis/evidence for that belief?
It's quite easy to see from the southern hemiplane. That, combined with an abundance of photographic visual aids, and a general consensus of its elevation regardless of which camp you're in.

3) What is your position on the people who have visited the South Pole, the permanent Scott Base which is alleged to be there and the 24 hour sun said to be observed there in their summer?
I can't help you with allegations someone else made. You're going to have to ask them.

5
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 24, 2019, 03:28:17 PM »
You said:

Quote
it's interesting to find out that this photograph only represents a former part of the Ice Wall. I would be keen to replace it with a more recent photo of the Ross Ice Shelf proper

So, from that I infer you believe that the Ross Ice Shelf is the "Ice Wall", or part of it - which in the FE model is a wall of ice which goes around the edge of the earth. Your Wiki quotes Ross saying he couldn't get past it and goes on to say:

Quote
Beyond the 150 foot Ice Wall is anyone's guess. How far the ice extends; how it terminates; and what exists beyond it, are questions to which no present human experience can reply. All we at present know is, that snow and hail, howling winds, and indescribable storms and hurricanes prevail; and that in every direction "human ingress is barred by unsealed escarpments of perpetual ice," extending farther than eye or telescope can penetrate, and becoming lost in gloom and darkness.

So it doesn't sound like you collectively believe that you can get far past it, if at all.
None of this gets me any closer to understanding why you think I think the Ice Wall is "impenetrable" - especially when you try to force an equivalence between the Ice Wall and what may or may not lie beyond it. Hopefully the fact that I now told you three times that I don't believe the Ice Wall to be impenetrable will be of some help.

It's quite hard to determine whether I disagree with you as you so rarely say plainly what you do believe.
[...]
You could help me - and help debates on here generally - by plainly stating what you actually believe and what your basis for those beliefs are.
Aside from the personal tone of your message (which I'll gently remind you to avoid), I'm not sure how I could be of more help. I feel like I was quite explicit in what I'm proposing, and when QED tried putting words in my mouth, I was quite clear in my disagreement.

It sounds like you were looking for more detail, but instead of asking questions you opted for a mix of guessing and reading the words of others. I'm still happy to answer questions, but I think you'll find it easier to understand others' positions when you base your understanding only on what they said, and not what you yourself thought up.

I simply can't help you understand my position if you:
  • Choose not to state what it is you don't understand.
  • Fill the gaps in your understanding with your imagination and then demand that I address it.

6
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 23, 2019, 08:26:34 PM »
I have evidence that the Ross Ice Shelf is not an impenetrable wall of ice which circles the earth, or part thereof.
I don't recall ever claiming that the Ice Wall is impenetrable. As for things I actually did say - you don't actually appear to disagree with me. You just need to assert your belonging to a tribe.

That's fine, I've grown to expect that. But I'm not sure how to help you when you're just expressing your indignation while not disagreeing with me.

7
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 23, 2019, 12:14:01 AM »
I think the impasse is that you desire all photographs to either be accepted or rejected
I explicitly told you this is not the case, and for the avoidance of doubt I am doing so again.

8
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 22, 2019, 11:59:13 PM »
I do believe I apply it consistently, but am happy to adjust if you are aware of an instance otherwise. I just don’t think that all photographs must necessarily be either good evidence or not evidence. I’d rather assess each piece of evidence separately.
That is the blatantly obvious position for the "photographs are evidence" camp. The question isn't whether all photos are always strong evidence of something, the question is whether they can ever be evidence. Your compatriots, in my mind, showed that they can't - dismissing photographs as CGI before a photograph was even nominated, because it clashed with their worldview. It is therefore my preference to assume, overzealously, that no photographs are good evidence.

You are welcome to disagree with me, but then you have to apply it evenly - thus dismissing my own claim that no photographic evidence of the Ice Wall exists. You can grab any appropriate visual aid and elevate it to evidence status via your own (in my view, misguided) standard. Any photo of the "Ross Ice Shelf" will be a good starting point for your inquiry, but I won't be able to assist you with something I don't myself believe to be meaningful.

9
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 22, 2019, 11:47:29 PM »
The two options you have provided to me for photographic evidence are not a true dichotomy. There is a third that I see: evaluate each piece of photographic evidence on its own merits, rather than believing all or none. This is the position that I hold.
Then you disagree with me, and consider photographic material to be evidence, and should be doing so consistently. In that case, you have a whole lot of ice shelf photography to deal with. But that's your problem - you set a silly standard for yourself.

11
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 22, 2019, 11:01:00 PM »
As far as I can tell, there is no evidence forthcoming for #1, and Pete has confirmed to me that the picture is meant as a visual aid which he does not believe is literal.

There is evidence for #2, and pictures, videos can be found.
It's extremely discourteous of you to apply two different standards of evidence depending on which side you want to support. Either you agree with me that photographic material is not evidence for the purpose of this debate, or you don't. Pick one, and stick with it.

I also never said that "I don't believe for the photographs to be literal", to my knowledge, and frankly I don't see how a photograph could be anything but literal.

12
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: What Investigations are ongoing?
« on: April 22, 2019, 06:17:00 PM »
READ BEFORE POSTING: Welcome to Flat Earth Investigations!

Also, refrain from spamming the upper fora. Have a warning.

13
Flat Earth Community / Re: Trip To Flat Earth Antartica
« on: April 22, 2019, 06:10:13 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean by this. The most prevalent FE model is the AE with Antarctica as an ice ring/wall around the known, more grassy, continents. The wiki is careful to partially skirt and at the same time address that model. Though it is punctuated with a video that makes it seem like there must be something hiding there.
And I'm not sure what you mean by your comment.

The question was: "How can I prove that existing Ice Wall photographs are not CGI?"
My answer is: "I can't, and I have no interest in doing so."
Supporting comment: "It's funny that a RE'er surmised that a hypothetical, not-yet-chosen photo, would be deemed CGI. It shows why going to Antarctica to take photos would be a waste of time insofar that convincing the RET zealots goes."

I'm not sure how your post above links up with any of this at all. I'm particularly surprised by your comment on the Globebusters video. It sounds like you want us to be the gatekeepers and arbiters of truth. We will not be doing that.

All of which perpetuates the confusion around the ice wall concept. Probably why you get 1000 questions about it per year.
Let's face it: The vast majority of questions we get come from people who are barely literate, and who read a "Flat Earth 100% pwnz0red xDDDD" article somewhere on the Internet. They're not asking questions, they're just here to be righteously indignant. There would be no confusion whatsoever if they simply engaged with the literature with a little bit of integrity.

14
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 22, 2019, 06:07:09 PM »
As usual you provide no argument at all.
Indeed, that was a moderation comment. It would be unwise to interweave it with an argument.

...but it's not anyone's guess. Ross might well not have found a way to get past the ice shelf but other people subsequently did.
So, you have evidence that people explored beyond the known parts of Antarctica? This is revolutionary stuff.

Of course, that's not what you're saying. You're saying you think Antarctica is as described in RET. I'm sure you understand the futility of just stating that.

15
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 22, 2019, 03:09:47 PM »
No. I’m telling you that the Ross Ice Shelf isn’t the “Ice Wall” which is commonly claimed to encircle the earth in FE models.
Please remember that just stating you think RET is correct is not a useful argument in the upper fora.

16
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 22, 2019, 11:06:03 AM »
I didn’t think bits of it could randomly break off, doesn’t it keep the oceans in?
"Randomly"? In this case it was part of a natural cycle, by the looks of it.

Are you telling me, in a world plagued with climate change, that it surprises you that a large iceberg calved from the Ross Ice Shelf? It's probably going to start happening more often, y'know.

17
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 22, 2019, 12:27:36 AM »
It was my understanding that you said photographic evidence exists for the ice wall, and that it was commonly known.
I don't think I said that. I said that there's an abundance of evidence, and that Antarctica can be plainly seen by anyone who wishes to see it. What I didn't say is that it would take some resources, but I'm sure you'll find it in you to forgive me this logistical omission.

Can you confirm whether such pictures FES considers accurate do or do not exist?

If it does exist, I would be grateful for the link.
Photographs of Antarctica do exist. Since I have personally not taken any, I will not make a personal recommendation. Perhaps in a the distant future, though...

That said, it's interesting to find out that this photograph only represents a former part of the Ice Wall. I would be keen to replace it with a more recent photo of the Ross Ice Shelf proper, but I'll hold back on that until I'm able to acquire one from a source I can trust (in other words, we'll likely be waiting indefinitely)

18
Doesn't this means that Zetetics don't tell others "what" to think (they don't say "this is true, trust me."), but rather "How you arrive in thinking through experiment"?
Close, but not quite. We can still state and document our beliefs, while reminding others that these should not be taken for granted. The moment we tell you how to arrive at your truth, however, we've influenced the process. Some view this as an issue, others don't. Much like with any philosophy, you'll find some divergence.

Also, I'm not sure why you took issue with that particular sentence. I'd understand if you were objecting to the claim that most of these photos are doctored, but the Wiki states they are most likely not.

19
Flat Earth Community / Re: Ice wall picture (I hope this is correct)
« on: April 21, 2019, 11:53:33 AM »
I am hoping to receive input on whether this is the evidence mentioned for an ice wall existing
As per the FAQ, we lend very little credibility to photographs, and I wouldn't call it evidence. A "visual aid" would be a better term. Unfortunately, many of those on the other side of the debate repeatedly demand this photo (or similar ones), so we've included it.

1. How did you acquire it?
I'm not sure. It's been there for the better part of a decade. My suspicion is that it was one of Google search results for what you would call one of the ice shelves. Funnily enough, this has become difficult to verify, since virtually all sources that still host this image are Flat Earth ones, many of which credit us as the source.

2. It appears as those the ice wall borders Antarctica on the coast! Is my interpretation correct?
The words "Antarctica" and "the Ice Wall" are interchangeable. Whether the Ice Wall borders itself is a question I'll leave to theorists and philosophers.

3. Of the above is true, then this is verifiable information. Ships and planes can verify it without crossing an unknown distance into the continent.
Indeed, anyone can witness the Antarctic coast and see that it exists. Many people have done so, which is why visual aids are easily accessible.

20
Flat Earth Community / Re: Trip To Flat Earth Antartica
« on: April 21, 2019, 01:42:54 AM »
Oh, you mean that photo of a giant iceberg taken a decade ago that has been debunked thousands of times?
No.

Plus, how can you prove these photos are not CGI?
I can't, and I have no interest in doing so. But that doesn't exactly help your compatriot's case for this task being worthwhile, does it? If anything, you just corroborated my point that RE'ers are beyond reform on this issue.

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