[Tom Bishop]

Tom. Hey! I'm not in a cult! Stop saying that MAGA is a cult!
Also Tom...

Why would he keep it when it can be a main feature of a major tourist destination dedicated to the Trump Presidency and further immortalize him?

All Hail Our Supreme Leader, May His Name Live On Forever!! #notacult

The US Government immortalizes all of its presidents. Every child is provided books praising them all. Trump will be remembered 500 years from now and beyond. The US President is essentially a king, and so it is only right that his name is remembered among the names of kings.

No, that's a bill to allow him to build one without having to follow state or local laws.  It says nothing about actually doing it.

So essentially... It's a concept of a plan.  He can't even be bothered to follow local building laws.  And even if it passes, no obligation to build it there.

Actually the location of Florida is not a coincidence. The Republican party is clearing the way because they intend to build there.

Yeah... You should read the PDF.  They have 36 million in expenses.  So their net profit is -3 million

It doesn't cost $36 million a year to maintain a museum for a President who left office in 1989. This is a reflection of having a lot of other money in their pocket to spend on improvements. The same PDF says on page 16 that they have investments of over 300 million



The revenue of 33.3 million shows that the museum is capable of making millions.

1. He ordered a new plane in 2018.  Now you're saying he didn't have to?
2. So millions in revenue per year while the next president has to spend hundreds of millions on another plane.
3. The Regan Library had a profit of -3 million a year.  Trump is more hated than Regan.  He won't get nearly as many visitors or donations.  So... How would it make money?  Show me the math.

1. He doesn't have a new plane. If it's going to be ready in 2027, the 2028 president can use it.
2. See above, if there is a plane ordered then the money is already spent.
3. I doubt the liberals are flocking to Republican Ronald Reagan's library. So the people who hate Trump are irrelevant to the potential revenue of the Trump library.

[Tom Bishop]

What do you think the Trump Organization’s luxury golf course in Qatar is supposed to be, if nothing less than a conflict of interest?   
https://apnews.com/article/trump-qatar-deal-conflicts-saudi-arabia-emoluments-7379bee2e307d39bd43b534a05ae3207

BTW, you didn’t say how long the plane would be used as Air Force One before it would be decommissioned.  Could the upgrades even be completed before the end of his term?  Do you really think that any savvy businessman would consider a reasonable return on investment for all of the required upgrades?

That's a licensing deal. The article says that he is licensing the name to a Saudi firm who is building in Quatar. If Trump is receiving money from any of these parties, it is irrelevant. It's not a conflict of interest because there has been no proof that this has affected Trump's decisions in the workplace, or that there has been a clash of personal and professional interests. There are just accusations that their could be a clash.

Again, if you or anyone wants to give me money I would just say thanks and be on my way about it. It's not a given that I am going to owe or give you anything back. In fact, any money you give me will be going into a deep dark hole, never to be heard of again. It's probably not a good idea to send me money if you are expecting anything in return.

If you do think that a debt is inherently owed from random gifts, then I challenge you to send me a gift card of any amount and see if the debt is returned.

[markjo]

1. He doesn't have a new plane. If it's going to be ready in 2027, the 2028 president can use it.

Check me if I’m wrong, but Trump’s term ends in 2029.  When will the Qatari Air Force One be ready?

[AATW]

"Trump announces deals with Qatar after praising 'tough, attractive' Syrian president"

lol

nohomo.
What a weird thing to say.

[markjo]

If Trump is receiving money from these parties this, it is irrelevant. It's not a conflict of interest because there has been no proof that this has affected Trump's decisions in the workplace, or that there has been a clash of personal and professional interests. There are just accusations that their could be a clash.

If Trump is using his status as POTUS to further his personal financial interests, then that is absolutely a conflict of interest because he is supposed to be putting the interests of America before his own.   

Again, if you or anyone wants to give me money I would just say thanks and be on my way about it. It's not a given that I am going to owe or give you anything back.

Trump is in a position to return favors, you are not.   That’s why he’s getting lavish gifts from shady governments and big corporations while you get screwed by footing the bill to upgrade then decommission an Air Force One that probably will never be used as Air Force One.   Pray tell, why decommission it when it would make far more sense for it to serve future presidents?   Trump is trying to cut wasteful spending, isn’t he?  Maybe DOGE should take a look at this deal.

[Pete Svarrior]

It's only a quid pro quo if there is a pro quo.

I dunno, my man, that's not what the clause says. Mitch McConnell had a thing or two to say about this sort of selective application of the law, and you were absolutely ecstatic about it back then.

[honk]

Trump is not going to be storing the plane in a nonexistent structure when he leaves office. He is going to be keeping it, and the cowards whose job it is to hold him to account will once again just mumble about how much they disapprove.

Really? Why would he keep it when it can be a main feature of a major tourist destination dedicated to the Trump Presidency and further immortalize him? The museum would be a grander use for it. It is being given to the federally administered Trump library after his term because it will become a part of the Trump library. It's not too hard to understand.

Again, there is no tourist destination. There is no museum. There is no physical library. There's just a website. It's up to each former president to pay for the design and construction of their presidential center, and while I'm sure that Trump's ego would enjoy having a hagiographic monument to his greatness, he clearly doesn't want to pay for it. If he did, he would have begun four years ago, when he first left office - he had no way of knowing that he'd be elected again four years later, and even if he did, that was no reason to put the whole thing off, especially for a man of Trump's age. If I were to make a reasonable guess as to why he's reluctant to build a presidential center, I'd say that it's because he wouldn't be able to afford it without a dramatic change of lifestyle. Remember that Trump lives very extravagantly, his brand took a major hit when he began running and burned so many bridges, he lost the privilege of ushering foreign and government business his way when he left office - and this was all even as he continued to aggressively solicit donations from his supporters and find other ways to take their money with every passing day, so it's not like he could count on a fresh surge of income from them. Trump is rich, but that doesn't mean that he's made of money.

My musings on Trump's finances aside, the fact remains that there is no real physical presidential center and no plans to build one. There is nowhere "official" to store the plane. So Trump will simply keep it, say something like "I'll hang onto it until the presidential center is built!" and every Trump supporter will continue to parrot this for the rest of his life as Trump continues to jet around in his luxurious airborne throne and every donation meant for the presidential center will be immediately blown on Trump's usual schmoozing.

[Lord Dave]

Trump is not going to be storing the plane in a nonexistent structure when he leaves office. He is going to be keeping it, and the cowards whose job it is to hold him to account will once again just mumble about how much they disapprove.

Really? Why would he keep it when it can be a main feature of a major tourist destination dedicated to the Trump Presidency and further immortalize him? The museum would be a grander use for it. It is being given to the federally administered Trump library after his term because it will become a part of the Trump library. It's not too hard to understand.

Again, there is no tourist destination. There is no museum. There is no physical library. There's just a website. It's up to each former president to pay for the design and construction of their presidential center, and while I'm sure that Trump's ego would enjoy having a hagiographic monument to his greatness, he clearly doesn't want to pay for it. If he did, he would have begun four years ago, when he first left office - he had no way of knowing that he'd be elected again four years later, and even if he did, that was no reason to put the whole thing off, especially for a man of Trump's age. If I were to make a reasonable guess as to why he's reluctant to build a presidential center, I'd say that it's because he wouldn't be able to afford it without a dramatic change of lifestyle. Remember that Trump lives very extravagantly, his brand took a major hit when he began running and burned so many bridges, he lost the privilege of ushering foreign and government business his way when he left office - and this was all even as he continued to aggressively solicit donations from his supporters and find other ways to take their money with every passing day, so it's not like he could count on a fresh surge of income from them. Trump is rich, but that doesn't mean that he's made of money.

My musings on Trump's finances aside, the fact remains that there is no real physical presidential center and no plans to build one. There is nowhere "official" to store the plane. So Trump will simply keep it, say something like "I'll hang onto it until the presidential center is built!" and every Trump supporter will continue to parrot this for the rest of his life as Trump continues to jet around in his luxurious airborne throne and every donation meant for the presidential center will be immediately blown on Trump's usual schmoozing.

If , what Tom claims, does happen where the plane will be given to the federal library system... They can just give it back to the next president and put it into Trump's library if he ever builds one.

[Tom Bishop]

If Trump is using his status as POTUS to further his personal financial interests, then that is absolutely a conflict of interest because he is supposed to be putting the interests of America before his own.

That's not the issue in conflict of interest. Conflict of interest issues deal with workplace ethics and responsibilities. It doesn't matter if a bank is giving bigger loans to CEOs. It doesn't matter if celebrities are using their celebrity to get last minute tables at high profile restaurants. The issue arises when that CEO or celebrity utilizes their workplace to give favor to that entity. As long as they are not doing that then they are free to receive benefits and make as much money as they want, and so is Trump.

Trump is in a position to return favors, you are not.   That’s why he’s getting lavish gifts from shady governments and big corporations while you get screwed by footing the bill to upgrade then decommission an Air Force One that probably will never be used as Air Force One.   Pray tell, why decommission it when it would make far more sense for it to serve future presidents?   Trump is trying to cut wasteful spending, isn’t he?  Maybe DOGE should take a look at this deal.

Your argument assumes that every gift received by Trump as president comes with an expectation of future favors, but this view oversimplifies the dynamics of gift-giving in diplomacy and politics. Gifts from foreign governments or corporations are often ceremonial, a norm in international relations, with a long history. If there is evidence that a gift directly influenced policy decisions to benefit a specific entity or government, then that would indeed warrant scrutiny. However, the mere receipt of gifts does not automatically imply corruption or a quid pro quo arrangement.

[markjo]

The issue arises when that CEO or celebrity utilizes their workplace to give favor to that entity. As long as they are not doing that then they are free to receive benefits and make as much money as they want, and so is Trump.

Not according to the domestic and foreign emoluments clauses in the Constitution.  Why do you think that Trump went through the motions of (partially) divesting himself from the Trump Organization for his first term?  This time around he isn't even pretending.

[Lord Dave]

If Trump is using his status as POTUS to further his personal financial interests, then that is absolutely a conflict of interest because he is supposed to be putting the interests of America before his own.

That's not the issue in conflict of interest. Conflict of interest issues deal with workplace ethics and responsibilities. It doesn't matter if a bank is giving bigger loans to CEOs. It doesn't matter if celebrities are using their celebrity to get last minute tables at high profile restaurants. The issue arises when that CEO or celebrity utilizes their workplace to give favor to that entity. As long as they are not doing that then they are free to receive benefits and make as much money as they want, and so is Trump.

Trump is in a position to return favors, you are not.   That’s why he’s getting lavish gifts from shady governments and big corporations while you get screwed by footing the bill to upgrade then decommission an Air Force One that probably will never be used as Air Force One.   Pray tell, why decommission it when it would make far more sense for it to serve future presidents?   Trump is trying to cut wasteful spending, isn’t he?  Maybe DOGE should take a look at this deal.

Your argument assumes that every gift received by Trump as president comes with an expectation of future favors, but this view oversimplifies the dynamics of gift-giving in diplomacy and politics. Gifts from foreign governments or corporations are often ceremonial, a norm in international relations, with a long history. If there is evidence that a gift directly influenced policy decisions to benefit a specific entity or government, then that would indeed warrant scrutiny. However, the mere receipt of gifts does not automatically imply corruption or a quid pro quo arrangement.

And how would you know if it did or did not?  Are you privy to every conversation and thought Trump has?

[Lord Dave]

Should also be noted how many foreign nations paid for rooms in Trump hotels, even if they didn't use them, just to make Trump more agreeable in negotiations and talks.

The corruption was so blatent that Republicans had to stop the case from being brought to SCOTUS by essentially delaying it until it became moot and SCOTUS had the lower courts dismiss the case for having no standing or relevance anymore.

[AATW]

Your argument assumes that every gift received by Trump as president comes with an expectation of future favors, but this view oversimplifies the dynamics of gift-giving in diplomacy and politics. Gifts from foreign governments or corporations are often ceremonial

Oh it's a ceremonial $400m plane. OK, champ. Nothing to see here then.

[Tom Bishop]

Not according to the domestic and foreign emoluments clauses in the Constitution.  Why do you think that Trump went through the motions of (partially) divesting himself from the Trump Organization for his first term?  This time around he isn't even pretending.

Actually, in this case, he is following US protocols. See this gift to the Obama daughters. The Obamas could not personally keep the items and they were later turned over to the National Archives and Records Administration, the same federal agency Trump is turning the plane over to.

https://www.invaluable.com/blog/most-extravagant-gifts/?srsltid=AfmBOor2izZKBc6aurp0YChaqfJTRqKwmezVct7_B9HqkS5MfAk6g2hw

In 2014, just before his passing, the late Abdullah bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud, King of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia at the time, showered then president Obama with gifts. Among the swag was a white gold watch estimated at over $60,000, a jewelry set for First Lady estimated at over $500,000, and jewelry sets worth an estimated $80,000 for the First Daughters, Sasha and Malia Obama. In all, Abdullah presented the Obama family with gifts worth an estimated $1.3 million. While the exchange caused a minor political controversy at the time, many people didn’t realize that the Obama family could not actually keep any of the items. While the gifts were accepted in order to avoid a cultural snafu, per US protocol they must later be turned over to the National Archives and Records Administration to avoid any potential conflicts of interest.

The Trump Library is part of the same federal agency:

https://www.trumplibrary.gov - "The Trump Presidential Library is part of the Presidential Libraries system administered by the National Archives and Records Administration, a federal agency."

The only minor clarification I see in any of this is that the President can use the items on official business, but cannot personally keep the items after he leaves office. That's is like saying that if a CEO of a company is given a ceremonial and historic baseball glove by an organization, that he can keep the item at the office and show it off on official company business, but can't keep it personally.

And how would you know if it did or did not?  Are you privy to every conversation and thought Trump has?

No, and I don't particularly care. That is your side's job to bring a case.

Oh it's a ceremonial $400m plane. OK, champ. Nothing to see here then.

Correct. If the Obama daughters were given $400m of jewelry it would also be turned over to the National Archives and Records Administration. The value of the item is not in the recipient's control.

[markjo]

…the same federal agency Trump is turning the plane over to.

What Trump promises and what Trump does are not always the same.  He says that the plane should be ready by the end of the year.   That would only be possible if he intentionally forgoes many of the safety and security measures that make a proper Air Force One.

[Action80]

^ Shhhh...quiet everyone...

markjo is going to provide us all with his keen insight as to the necessary safety and security procedures that entail the construction of a "proper," AF1.

I mean, wtf...this tops the "basic physics," bullshit you find emanating from his keyboard.

LMMFAO!!!

[markjo]

Here are some of the unclassified features:
https://theaviationist.com/2018/10/23/these-are-the-systems-that-protect-air-force-one-from-heat-seeking-missiles/
https://www.expresscomputer.in/features/7-technologies-that-make-air-force-one-the-most-feared-non-military-aircraft-in-the-world/49664/

There’s plenty more that’s classified well above all of our pay grades.

[Action80]

^Shhh...quiet everyone...

markjo is going to tell us all about how he knows what is and isn't "classified," concerning AF1...aka, stuff real close to the "basic physics," or "emoluments," buzzwords that he so dearly loves to toss about as an "insider."

LMMFAO!!!

[Lord Dave]

Lets ask 2016 Trump what he thinks if 2025 Trump.

[Tom Bishop]

I just see a bunch of random clips without context. "If I said that, that's quid pro quo", said what? Quid pro quo requires a pro quo. I don't see that Trump has offered anything in return.

I also don't see that there is a history of presidents rejecting gifts. The gifts given to presidents go to the National Archives and Records Administration, which is where the plane is going. Considering that this is how it has worked in the past, I am not sure what you guys are whining about.