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Messages - Pickel B Gravel

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Why Though?

I think the problem is people wrongly classify the earth as a planet. So, many assume that if the earth is a planet, it must be the shape of other celestial bodies.

Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

Ah, there it is AGAIN. The "I don't have the time for this", or "I'm bored with this conversation" get-out clause.

It's not a get-out clause. The round earthers I've come across here are never satisfied with an answer, and they often resort to some form of strawman or red herring cowardice. This question itself refers to flat earth theorists as "flat-heads". If that isn't a derogatory term meant to deride flat earth theorists, then I don't know what is.

Ah, yes, Pickel B Gravel again. That signature admittedly triggered me the first time I read it, but now I'm used to it. Let's see... You have a rather short memory, right? I dug up a rather engaging thread I had with you
You got destroyed. Remember?

I didn't get destroyed at all. You completely misrepresented my positions and engaged in such cowardice, resorting to strawman fallacies, ad hominem attacks, and red herring attacks. And you kept doing it even after I requested you to refrain from such.

It was you who didn't understand the conservation of energy.

Of course I understand it. As I've said on that thread, I haven't provided all the details for the proposed model of the Sun. You take the lack of detail I provide and use it to discredit me and the proposed Sun model. Would you like me to do the same? Alright, the Sun isn't billions of years old because comets still exist, which violates the second law of thermodynamics.

It was you who couldn't do the basic calculations for black body radiation from the Sun.

I don't believe in the premise that the calculations of black body radiation are based on. And asking you why you believed the sun was a certain temperature doesn't mean I couldn't do the basic calculations.

It was you who made up some electrolysis junk while we tried to explain to you that the energy just wasn't there (aka not addressing/understanding the argument).

You are absolutely wrong. I have addressed the arguments you've made. You kept making too many assumptions and resorted to ad hominem attacks, red herring attacks, and strawman attacks that it just became pointless to argue. You didn't want to have a meaningful discussion of the proposed scientific theory that I was proposing; you simply wanted to insult, fight with, and misrepresent me.

We then reduced you to asserting that the water came from somewhere and you didn't really understand where the energy came from (and that there's a water stream in space that we cannot see).

I have stated quite clearly that the water vapor formed into clouds and then reversed back into separate hydrogen and oxygen via natural electrolysis. These separate molecules would then diffuse into the Sun to be recombined into h2o and released back into the atmosphere. The water came from the Sun. I've made this clear.

Not to mention the many different posts douglips and I had to make explaining that combustion reactions cannot make the Sun as hot as 5700 K.

When have I ever said the Sun was that hot? NEVER.

You also asserted that the Sun is in the atmosphere (wtf?). You don't think a 30-mile wide ball of flaming gas at 5700 K would cause extreme winds? Well, pardon me.

If the Sun was 5700 k, which I never typed that it was, then it would cause extreme winds. But, again, this is a prime example of you resorting to strawman cowardice by insisting (or assuming) that I accept the Sun to be 5700 k.

And then I caught you in a lie about a 1595 on the SAT, which I know isn't true.

I didn't lie. I told you that the essay is graded in one-point intervals. You just can't admit you're wrong.

TL;DR: You got destroyed.

And let's not start on the Holocaust denial...

No, I didn't get destroyed. I did get insulted and misrepresented. I did have to argue with many aggressive round earthers. And the holocaust? Everything I've typed about it has not been disproved. Now WHY is that?


Why is the southern jet stream so similar to the northern one, speed and shapes?

How does this debunk a flat earth?

There are many space agencies in the world. Do they all lie?

Yes. Space agencies are used as a cover to embezzle tax money.

Why does Antarctica get twenty-four hours of sunlight during December if the earth is flat?

Can you verify this? Have you actually gone to Antarctica and observed this? Or are you simply accepting what is told to you?

If the earth is flat then why would the Australians and South Africans get an entirely different set of stars in their night sky like they do in a round Earth, and which can be demonstrated to be the case simply by flying there?

The "stars" are much closer to us. So, the distances that they can be seen is limited. If a plane flies above los Angeles, California, it won't be seen from Sacramento, California because of the plane's close proximity to the earth.

Looking at the model of the world which you folks present would indicate that every star in the night sky would be in line of sight to nearly everyone on Earth, no matter where they stand.

No. The stars aren't as far away from us as is claimed by round earthers.

why do you all tell us NASA/Government are lying to us? What possible benefits are there to be gained? Don't tell me they are scared to admit they were wrong as science is always striving to better understand our universe.

They faked space travel during the space race, and when they faked it they made fake images of the earth that the public already believed--a spherical earth. Now NASA and other space agencies are just used as a cover for government leaders and the wealthy elite to take tax money from taxpayers. The money allocated to space agencies go into their pockets.

...ISS ever captured them on video? Maybe because both the ISS and satellites in general are hoaxes and the alleged ISS video footage of space is faked?

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Sexual Scandals
« on: May 03, 2018, 03:31:11 PM »
If you're a Moore supporter its something.  That's all they need to keep denying it.

It underscores the problem with a 2 party system.
No matter how bad your candidate is as a human being, you can't afford to have "The enemy" in office so you go with your party.

Exactly! That's why I supported 2016 Green party candidate Dr Jill Stein. The lesser of two evils is a logical fallacy. And the two parties of the USA actually work together to keep third parties down. They ignore rank choice voting, set up next-to-impossible criteria for parties to be eligible for campaign funding and ballot access, and they control the televised debates and makes it almost impossible for third party candidates to participate in the debates. I personally believe that the two parties are two sides of the same coin that are controlled by the elite class.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: May 03, 2018, 03:21:32 PM »
Yes, we need a new thread, I think so anyway.  The election is over (except the recounts).

Donald Trump and his VP (the governor of Indiana) have successfully kept 800 jobs in the state of Indiana by giving a company $7 Million worth of tax cuts over 10 years to said company.
Indiana officials agreed to give United Technologies Corp. $7 million worth of tax breaks over 10 years to encourage the company’s Carrier Corp. unit to keep about 1,000 jobs in the state, according to people familiar with the matter.
The heating and air conditioning company will invest about $16 million to keep its operations in the state, including a furnace plant in Indianapolis that it had previously planned to close and shift the work to Mexico, the people said.
Carrier has previously said it expected to save about $65 million a year by shutting the plant and moving its operations to Monterrey.
President-elect Donald Trump and Vice President-elect Mike Pence were expected to announced the deal with Carrier in Indiana on Thursday.
The deal would cover 800 Carrier workers from the Indianapolis furnace plant and an additional 300 research and headquarters positions that weren’t slated to go to Mexico, according to another person briefed on the deal.
The company still plans to move 600 jobs from the Carrier plant to Mexico. It also will proceed with plans to close a second plant in Huntington, Ind., that makes electronic controls, moving 700 other jobs to Mexico.
Mr. Trump has played up the partial rescue as a sign he can deliver on campaign promises. Through the presidential primary and general election, the Republican businessman had made an example of Carrier, at one point threatening to put a 35% tariff on Carrier imports unless it reversed its decision to move the jobs to Mexico.
“This is a big win for the incoming administration but an even bigger win for the people of Indiana,” transition spokesman Jason Miller said Thursday. The transition team has declined to provide details about the cost of keeping those jobs in the state.
Mr. Trump also will host an evening rally at U.S. Bank Arena in Cincinnati, a Republican stronghold. Ohio was one of six states the Republican captured after being won twice by Democratic President Barack Obama. That is the start of a broader “thank you” tour that is expected to include stops in Florida and across the Midwest.
Sen. Bernie Sanders, who during his presidential campaign had also attacked Carrier and other firms shifting work abroad, criticized the deal on Thursday, saying Mr. Trump failed to make good on his campaign pledge to save all of the jobs from moving to Mexico.
The deal also creates a bad precedent, Mr. Sanders contended, writing that Mr. Trump “has signaled to every corporation in America that they can threaten to offshore jobs in exchange for business-friendly tax benefits and incentives.”
The deal that emerged from weeks of negotiations between United Technologies brass and officials in the Trump camp led by Mr. Pence, the Indiana governor, is a relatively standard package of state incentives, according to people familiar with the agreement.
On Wednesday, Carrier said “incentives offered by the state were an important consideration,” without providing further details.
“This agreement in no way diminishes our belief in the benefits of free trade and that the forces of globalization will continue to require solutions for the long-term competitiveness of the U.S. and of American workers moving forward,” the company said.
In addition to Carrier, United Technologies makes Pratt & Whitney jet engines and Otis elevators. It employs about 200,000 people, about one third of them in the U.S.
Representatives of the incoming administration also discussed the Farmington, Conn., company’s wishes regarding federal regulations and their desires for an overhaul of corporate tax laws, according to one of the people.
For Mr. Trump, the trips to Indiana and Ohio meant there were no announced meetings on Thursday with prospective cabinet members. Those meetings will resume on Friday in New York, where Mr. Trump is scheduled to visit with Sen. David Perdue (R., Ga.), retired Adm. Jay Cohen, Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, former United Nations Ambassador John Bolton, and Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D., N.D.).

What does this mean?
The company is getting $700,000 a year in tax savings to instead of $65 Million a year in cost savings.

I consider myself a liberal but have no problem with trump. He's got north Korea to end war with south Korea--a feat that none of his predecessors could accomplish. He's also correct about protecting the borders in my opinion. And I agree with him on international trade deals.

Cutting taxes does appear to attract businesses to the USA. I really don't mind it as long as all of the people of the USA are taken care of too, not just the merchant class.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Another big Mass Shooting
« on: May 03, 2018, 03:14:03 PM »
Holy shit, Trump is (maybe) bowing to pressure!

Watch the video.  Even the NRA, on Fox News, agrees with addition regulations for bump stocks!

Banning bump stocks won't do anything. You can make your own from supplies from Home Depot.

I am aware.
Doesn't mean it isn't a step.  I can only hope its used as a springboard to other bans.

And you just validated my concerns as to why I'm not in favor of the ban. If you succeed with this, you won't be happy until you're three miles down the road.
I won't be happy until kids can go to school without having to worry they'll be shot at.

And if you feel your guns are more important than that, then you don't deserve a future.

Why do you think that banning guns is the only solution to stopping school shootings? Better school security and allowing teachers to arm themselves May be just as effective.

Flat Earth Community / Re: Flat Earth UK Convention
« on: May 03, 2018, 01:58:09 AM »
It seems to have been a very productive convention. I wish I could've gone. I would've liked to hear Dave Marsh's scientific research in person and to hear about the proposed Pac man theory.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: satellite hoax
« on: May 03, 2018, 01:43:30 AM »
Hogwash. Balloons don't behave like that. If they were balloons, they would not stick to defined paths. They would be at the mercy of wind and weather.

Some balloons like blimps can be maneuvered on a defined path quite nicely actually.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: satellite hoax
« on: May 03, 2018, 01:36:10 AM »

The sky. More specifically, equipped balloons or a specific location in the sky where local radio towers send signals that bounce off the ionosphere.


It's a natural layer of the earth's atmosphere that can reflect radio waves. It's used to send radio signals around world.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: satellite hoax
« on: May 03, 2018, 01:31:08 AM »

Since satellites don't exist what is this thing that the government is calling the "international space station" that I am able to see?

It could very well be an abnormally shaped asteroid-like space object.

It was not there in 1980. When did it get there? How did it get there? If it's man made then it's a satellite by definition.

If it's a natural space object, then it was always there. We just didn't discover it until 1980. Or possibly it was captured by the earth around that time.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: satellite hoax
« on: May 03, 2018, 01:05:15 AM »

What the f*** is my satellite dish pointing at then?
The sky. More specifically, equipped balloons or a specific location in the sky where local radio towers send signals that bounce off the ionosphere.

And how does GPS work?

GPS doesn't need satellite.

And where do all those satellite photos used in weather reports come from.

In some cases, high altitude balloons. In other cases (like NASA earth images), faked images.

And how come you can SEE the ISS if you know what you're doing, exactly where NASA say it's going to be and going at significant speed?

The ISS could very well be a natural space object (like an asteroid). It could be anything really. You could also see Venus exactly where NASA says it can be seen. Movements of heavenly bodies can be predicted with amazing accuracy.

And where are all those rockets going which people keep witnessing the launches of?
No evidence? Behave.

They're cheap rockets for show. They probably land in some remote location on earth. Have you actuallly observed a rocket on the moon?

OK, to play your game...there is no evidence that they are balloons.

They may or may not be balloons. I just offered balloons as an alternative explanation. They could very well be be little asteroid-like objects with the ability to reflect microwaves and radio waves.

I'm pretty sure it would be technically impossible to have balloons which float around in unpredictable ways depending on wind providing things like GPS, Satellite TV, meteorology photos and faking the ISS and all in locations accurate enough to do all this.

That's your opinion.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: satellite hoax
« on: May 03, 2018, 12:36:32 AM »
Flying around looking for sats, I could find none, no one can. They are a hoax. Gps is simply ground based. Enjoy, and hit this guys videos and learn.

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of satellites existing. It wouldn't debunk a flat earth. However, there simply is no evidence for satellites. Round earthers will often cite sources that list the time and location to track certain satellites. However, this doesn't prove that the objects seen are heavier-than-air objects floating around a spherical earth. These objects could very well be balloons that NASA routinely deploys into the atmosphere in order to give viewers the impression that satellites are real.
Clearly satellites exist for communication, broadcast and navigation.

Why do you believe that?

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Observation of the ISS
« on: April 29, 2018, 04:35:12 AM »
The other night I saw a notification by our local news station that the international space station would be passing overhead and would be visible between 6:56pm and 6:59 pm. It was a bright yellow dot that passed overhead at a very fast speed.

From a flat earth perspective, what else would this be if it's not the ISS?

A balloon of some sort. What makes you think it's a heavier-than-air object?

I'm pretty new here, and I was just wondering what reasons people, companies, and governments have to continue perpetuating the round earth.

It began between the USA and ussr faking space travel to try to outdo each other in the space race. Earth images and descriptions had to be faked during these fictitious voyages into space. So, the ussr and USA used the earth model that was already popular and accepted: a spherical earth. Now, space agencies are used to embezzle money from tax payers for very powerful and greedy individuals. It's about greed for money.

..and why isn't the FE side "winning" a single thread in the Debate forum?

Scrolling through pages after pages of the forum, I see the remains of many great threads that utterly destroy the FE myth. In most of them all the FE questions, misunderstandings, and objections have been addressed. I get that there are only a few flat-heads left here to reply to forum posts, and we're all very grateful for your efforts, but you'd at least hope to see some threads where the RE side is losing...

Why would we admit we're wrong? And we're not destroyed in debates here. Round earthers take cheap shots and gang up on us that it becomes too tedious and time-consuming to continue the debates.

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Common sense?
« on: April 29, 2018, 04:15:09 AM »
So this is what I don't get. When Flat-earthers state that the shape of the earth is a disc, and that its not and never was a sphere, not only the 18,000 people working at Nasa are bold-faced lying to everyone, but the 100,000 people working in Chinas space program, The Indian space program, the Japanese space program, and Russian space program, along with every single astrophysicist, (around 430,000 people in total) are just lying to literally everyone in the world for no reason? I mean, It's honestly absurd.

They're not lying for "no reason". They're lying to embezzle money from taxpayers via fake space agencies. And most of the workers at NASA and other space agencies wouldn't be in on the hoax. Most of the workers probably think they're actually sending things into space.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: satellite hoax
« on: April 29, 2018, 04:05:14 AM »
Flying around looking for sats, I could find none, no one can. They are a hoax. Gps is simply ground based. Enjoy, and hit this guys videos and learn.

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of satellites existing. It wouldn't debunk a flat earth. However, there simply is no evidence for satellites. Round earthers will often cite sources that list the time and location to track certain satellites. However, this doesn't prove that the objects seen are heavier-than-air objects floating around a spherical earth. These objects could very well be balloons that NASA routinely deploys into the atmosphere in order to give viewers the impression that satellites are real.

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