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Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Roundy on June 25, 2020, 08:02:44 PM

Title: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on June 25, 2020, 08:02:44 PM
At least he would be if the election were held today.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/politics/donald-trump-swing-state-polls-new-york-times-siena/index.html
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on June 25, 2020, 09:08:37 PM
At least he would be if the election were held today.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/politics/donald-trump-swing-state-polls-new-york-times-siena/index.html

I imagine polling went like this.

Pollster: "Hi, I'm from the New York Times. Would you mind telling me how you would vote if there were an election tomorrow?"
Democrat voter: "I'd vote Biden. Orange man bad.

Pollster: "Hi, I'm from the New York Times. Would you mind telling me how you would vote if there were an election tomorrow?"
Republican voter: "New York Times? How about you f-off, you total disgrace.  >o<"
Pollster: "I'll pop you down as an undecided.

Conservatives in all countries are much more likely to refuse to disclose their voting intentions. This is likely because the New York Times et al frequently tell people they are stupid if they vote Republican. When a left wing journalist asks you how you will vote, you're unlikely to be cooperative with them. I wouldn't have '5 mins to spare' for the BBC for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy_Tory_factor
^ I guess you would have something similar in the USA.


My verdict ... Trump will win again without breaking a sweat. By the time the head to head debate has happened and Biden is shown to be absolutely out of his skull with dementia, it'll all be over for another 4 years.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on June 26, 2020, 01:01:51 AM
Thork, I want people to have that attitude. I want people to be paranoid that the Orange Man will win again,  despite the overwhelming evidence that he won't. Apparently it's the only way to energize enough Democrats to make a difference.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on June 26, 2020, 03:58:17 AM
Except they wouldn't mention the New York Times.  Or any company name, to ensure unbiased answers.
Only if pressed would they say what their polling company or university is. 


Also, I'm with Roundy.  We got complacent last time and it fucked us over.  Hell, I'm gonna vote this time around.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on June 29, 2020, 01:48:10 PM
Also, I'm with Roundy.  We got complacent last time and it fucked us over.  Hell, I'm gonna vote this time around.

You don't even live in the US anymore. It didn't change your life one jot having Trump. You've been watching too much CNN again.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on June 29, 2020, 03:03:52 PM
Also, I'm with Roundy.  We got complacent last time and it fucked us over.  Hell, I'm gonna vote this time around.

You don't even live in the US anymore. It didn't change your life one jot having Trump. You've been watching too much CNN again.

We don't get CNN over here. :P
I am also a citizen so his actions reflect on me.
I also file taxes.  I got his stimulus money and spent it in Norway.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: totallackey on June 29, 2020, 03:41:42 PM
Also, I'm with Roundy.  We got complacent last time and it fucked us over.  Hell, I'm gonna vote this time around.

...It didn't change your life one jot having Trump.
This is true for every single person on the planet.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on June 29, 2020, 03:48:05 PM
This is true for every single person on the planet.

TIL POTUS doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: totallackey on June 29, 2020, 03:51:59 PM
This is true for every single person on the planet.

TIL POTUS doesn't matter.
Please describe one thing any president has done that impacted your life to any degree.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on June 29, 2020, 04:04:04 PM
This is true for every single person on the planet.

TIL POTUS doesn't matter.
Please describe one thing any president has done that impacted your life to any degree.

Why are you singling me out?  You said it was true for every single person on the planet.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: TomInAustin on June 29, 2020, 04:17:38 PM
Thork, I want people to have that attitude. I want people to be paranoid that the Orange Man will win again,  despite the overwhelming evidence that he won't. Apparently it's the only way to energize enough Democrats to make a difference.

Sadly America's youth will not vote, they just can't be bothered.  Maybe if they could vote on Tik Tok?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on June 29, 2020, 05:59:55 PM
This is true for every single person on the planet.

TIL POTUS doesn't matter.
Please describe one thing any president has done that impacted your life to any degree.

This is a very odd thing to say or argue.  By this logic, you should not care who wins any presidency as they have no power over you.  Obama couldn't take your guns, Trump can't get you jobs, nothing.

Hell, it means any military action ordered by a president has no impact, regardless of who dies.
Go figure, eh?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on June 29, 2020, 06:11:22 PM
I also file taxes.  I got his stimulus money and spent it in Norway.
You are a parasite on decent hard working Americans. And now you wish to impose your political ideologies on those living in the States without having to face the consequences of your vote yourself? Honestly, look at your behaviour and decide if you are a morally bankrupt. I'd say you are behaving as such.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on June 29, 2020, 06:17:15 PM
I also file taxes.  I got his stimulus money and spent it in Norway.
You are a parasite on decent hard working Americans. And now you wish to impose your political ideologies on those living in the States without having to face the consequences of your vote yourself? Honestly, look at your behaviour and decide if you are a morally bankrupt. I'd say you are behaving as such.

All of a sudden you care what an American is doing?  But it's weird to care what the president of the USA is doing?  Do you see how completely two-faced you are?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on June 29, 2020, 06:21:06 PM
All of a sudden you care what an American is doing?  But it's weird to care what the president of the USA is doing?  Do you see how completely two-faced you are?
Lord Dave is part of my every day life. I've been talking to Lord Dave for a decade. I know everything about him and his life. I have never had any interaction with Donald Trump. To me, Lord Dave is a reality. Trump is just a media fiction.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on June 29, 2020, 06:23:07 PM
All of a sudden you care what an American is doing?  But it's weird to care what the president of the USA is doing?  Do you see how completely two-faced you are?
Lord Dave is part of my every day life. I've been talking to Lord Dave for a decade. I know everything about him and his life. I have never had any interaction with Donald Trump. To me, Lord Dave is a reality. Trump is just a media fiction.

Well, it turns out that acting like an ostrich won't make Trump a fiction.  He is a real person.  He makes decisions of consequence to the world.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on June 29, 2020, 06:28:17 PM
Thork, I want people to have that attitude. I want people to be paranoid that the Orange Man will win again,  despite the overwhelming evidence that he won't. Apparently it's the only way to energize enough Democrats to make a difference.

Sadly America's youth will not vote, they just can't be bothered.  Maybe if they could vote on Tik Tok?

Thanks for contributing to the cause!  :)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on June 30, 2020, 02:57:05 AM
Thork, I want people to have that attitude. I want people to be paranoid that the Orange Man will win again,  despite the overwhelming evidence that he won't. Apparently it's the only way to energize enough Democrats to make a difference.

Sadly America's youth will not vote, they just can't be bothered.  Maybe if they could vote on Tik Tok?

I don't know... with all that has happened lately, I wonder if it will outrage enough young people to pay attention.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on June 30, 2020, 04:11:47 AM
I also file taxes.  I got his stimulus money and spent it in Norway.
You are a parasite on decent hard working Americans. And now you wish to impose your political ideologies on those living in the States without having to face the consequences of your vote yourself? Honestly, look at your behaviour and decide if you are a morally bankrupt. I'd say you are behaving as such.
Its not my fault they sent a check to people who live out of country.  They could easily have just not sent one to someone who works out of country or lives out of country, but they chose not to.  So yes, I took the check I was given, all $1,700, and cashed it to add to my home savings account.

As for consequences.  There are always consequences.  I may not have to live under his rule (unless he forces me back or invades Norway) but I am still bound by many American laws by virtue of being American.  I have student loans whose interest rates vary by the word if the Treasury.  Whose repayment terms are dictated by his choice of education secretary.  I file taxes in accordance to the IRS and current Tax laws, a major one of which HE SIGNED INTO LAW.

So yes, I don't have to live in Trump's America, but I sure as hell feel his shit.
I also have friends and family there.  So even if I don't live there, they do and I want them to have a good life.  Wouldn't you?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on July 26, 2020, 03:05:27 AM
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/trump-says-biden-would-destroy-the-suburbs-so-what-is-his-housing-plan

When an article strains to be critical of Biden, and somehow ends up as a glowing endorsement of his proposed policy. Biden's initiatives are stated in a Fox News article, without any attempt on their part to dispute the point, to reduce overall poverty by 22% and child poverty by 34%, all by (gasp!) forcing the suburbs to be more inclusive. I know, right? Pure evil!

I mean the subtext is that all of a sudden more people from urban areas (ie people of color, and obviously largely criminals) are going to move into the burbs and that's why what Biden is doing is "destroying the suburbs". I guess to the racists that make up a significant portion of Fox's viewership such consequences are terrifying.

It's just crazy that in attacking a liberal over a liberal policy, in the name of defending Trump's inane accusations, a conservative outfit can't spin things so that it really sounds like a bad idea. Unless, of course, you take issue with more people being able to make their way out of poverty, and conceivably move into your development. There goes the neighborhood, huh?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on July 26, 2020, 03:28:20 AM
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/trump-says-biden-would-destroy-the-suburbs-so-what-is-his-housing-plan

When an article strains to be critical of Biden, and somehow ends up as a glowing endorsement of his proposed policy. Biden's initiatives are stated in a Fox News article, without any attempt on their part to dispute the point, to reduce overall poverty by 22% and child poverty by 34%, all by (gasp!) forcing the suburbs to be more inclusive. I know, right? Pure evil!

I mean the subtext is that all of a sudden more people from urban areas (ie people of color, and obviously largely criminals) are going to move into the burbs and that's why what Biden is doing is "destroying the suburbs". I guess to the racists that make up a significant portion of Fox's viewership such consequences are terrifying.

It's just crazy that in attacking a liberal over a liberal policy, in the name of defending Trump's inane accusations, a conservative outfit can't spin things so that it really sounds like a bad idea. Unless, of course, you take issue with more people being able to make their way out of poverty, and conceivably move into your development. There goes the neighborhood, huh?

Its hard to spin it without either trashing the suburbs (So fox viewers) or outright calling city folk criminals.
Plus, I think Fox see's the writing on the wall and isn't giving it their A game right now.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on July 26, 2020, 07:47:06 AM
Joe Biden is still winning by a landslide, by the way. Even more so than before.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on July 26, 2020, 07:51:30 AM
The best landslide.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on July 27, 2020, 01:30:20 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-campaign-declines-fox-news-sunday-interview-chris-wallace

I mean, of course he does. And why wouldn't he?

Trump has been notorious for agreeing to nothing but softball interviews with personal friends like Sean Hannity throughout his presidency. This interview was not a sign that that attitude has changed; it's just a sign that the Trump campaign recognizes how far underwater he is, and it forced Trump to step outside his comfort zone. It was an act of desperation more than anything else.

Biden has no such problem. Biden has been doing just fine without having to subject himself to a difficult interview on a hostile network.

I'd decline the interview if I were him too. It was a publicity stunt for Trump. Biden doesn't need a publicity stunt right now, he needs to keep doing what he's been doing, because it's working.

And Fox News putting out an article challenging him for refusing the interview might feel good on their part, but it will have very, very little effect on the election, because the zombies that pay attention to Fox News have made their choice already.

Keep doing what you're doing, Joe!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on July 28, 2020, 12:41:50 AM
I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but I have to admit I'm feeling a lot more optimistic about the election than I was a few months ago. Trump is his own worst enemy, and he's doing far more to hurt his chances of reelection than Biden ever could. I'd like to see Biden also decline to debate Trump. He'll take a hit for backing out, sure, but there's no benefit in a debate for him. If he gets onto a stage with Trump, Trump will simply lie. He'll lie wildly and frantically, desperate to say something, anything that could narrow the gap between them. Why give him the opportunity? There's no point in having a debate if both candidates aren't making a good-faith effort to actually discuss the issues and let the voters decide which of them has the better stance on them.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on July 28, 2020, 03:48:00 AM
Doesn’t matter. Go vote, people. (Not you Tom)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on July 28, 2020, 05:09:22 AM
I think we're all mature enough to handle a discussion on the election while also agreeing to vote no matter what we think the outcome will be.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: GreatATuin on July 28, 2020, 05:35:48 AM
What if the pandemic makes it impossible to hold elections in November? Is that possibility even considered?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on July 28, 2020, 07:33:10 AM
What if the pandemic makes it impossible to hold elections in November? Is that possibility even considered?

Yes.
People will vote anyway tho older people (who generally vote Republican) probably won't.

Trump will declare it a sham election if he loses and can blame corona, to which everyone will go 'But you said mail in voting was full of fraud.'

I suspect you'll have alot of mail in voting tho.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on July 28, 2020, 11:12:34 PM
Trump will declare it a sham election if he loses and can blame corona, to which everyone will go 'But you said mail in voting was full of fraud.'

I'm sure if Trump loses, there will be people on the left saying the same thing. It's a no-win situation.

I hope everyone can and does vote.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 01, 2020, 02:51:31 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/chris-wallace-joe-biden-fox-news-sunday

We know, we know, Fox News, we heard you the first time.  ::)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 01, 2020, 07:05:05 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/media/chris-wallace-joe-biden-fox-news-sunday

We know, we know, Fox News, we heard you the first time.  ::)
Sounds like Biden has been skipping leg-day.  >:(
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 01:28:30 AM
And guess who the VP pick is?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/11/us/politics/kamala-harris-vp-biden.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/11/politics/biden-vp-pick/index.html

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/11/897427306/in-historic-pick-joe-biden-taps-kamala-harris-to-be-his-running-mate

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/harris-bidens-vp-pick-scrutiny-prosecutor
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on August 12, 2020, 01:51:03 AM
isn;t joey brain dead like his voters?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 12, 2020, 02:30:59 AM
lol, a vice presidential candidate who believes that her running mate is a rapist.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/11/flashback-kamala-harris-said-she-believed-bidens-rape-accusers/

"Its ok because I want to be VP" -Kamala probably

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 03:08:55 AM
lol, a vice presidential candidate who believes that her running mate is a rapist.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/11/flashback-kamala-harris-said-she-believed-bidens-rape-accusers/

"Its ok because I want to be VP" -Kamala probably

I’ll admit he’s too touchy feely and that kind of behavior is not tolerated in society these days, but isnt a bit disingenuous to call it rape?

The guy you support is not any better in this regard.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 12, 2020, 03:22:35 AM
isnt a bit disingenuous to call it rape?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52584774

Quote
What did Tara Reade say about the alleged assault?

Ms Reade, now 56, worked as a staff assistant to Mr Biden from 1992-93 when he was a senator for the US state of Delaware.

She has said that in 1993 he forced her against a wall and put his hands under her shirt and skirt, penetrating her with a finger, after she delivered him his gym bag.

In her most graphic, detailed account yet of the alleged assault, Ms Reade told US media personality Megyn Kelly that Mr Biden kissed her neck and told her he wanted to have sex with her, using an obscene term.

"So, he had one hand underneath my shirt, and the other had, I had a skirt on, and he went down my skirt and then went up and I remember I was up almost on my tippy toes," she said.

"When he went inside the skirt, he was talking to me at the same time, and he was leaning into me and I pulled this way away from his head."

When she refused his advances, she said: "He looked at me and said, 'What the hell, man, I heard you liked me'."

She added: "He pointed his finger at me and he said 'You're nothing to me. You're nothing'."

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/rape

Quote
rape
noun
unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 12, 2020, 07:40:17 AM
It looks to me like the democrats have given up this year. Biden is a waste of space.

Their campaign is a negative one. It isn't vote for Biden. It is vote against Trump. Those types of campaigns fail to bring out base support because the base isn't enthusiastic about its own candidate. I can't see the dems winning ... thank god.

And Kamala Harris ... congratulations on being a black woman. Its the only qualification required to be Biden's VP. You are the token box ticker who is purely there because the Dems are obsessed with race, sex and victimhood.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 12, 2020, 11:05:49 AM
It looks to me like the democrats have given up this year. Biden is a waste of space.

Their campaign is a negative one. It isn't vote for Biden. It is vote against Trump. Those types of campaigns fail to bring out base support because the base isn't enthusiastic about its own candidate. I can't see the dems winning ... thank god.

And Kamala Harris ... congratulations on being a black woman. Its the only qualification required to be Biden's VP. You are the token box ticker who is purely there because the Dems are obsessed with race, sex and victimhood.

She is also an Attorney General. Thats an accomplishment most would never sniff at.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: jimbaker7773 on August 12, 2020, 11:14:43 AM
It looks to me like the democrats have given up this year. Biden is a waste of space.

Their campaign is a negative one. It isn't vote for Biden. It is vote against Trump. Those types of campaigns fail to bring out base support because the base isn't enthusiastic about its own candidate. I can't see the dems winning ... thank god.

And Kamala Harris ... congratulations on being a black woman. Its the only qualification required to be Biden's VP. You are the token box ticker who is purely there because the Dems are obsessed with race, sex and victimhood.

She is also an Attorney General.
"News broke on Tuesday that Kamala Harris was ending her run for president. While there are a number of reasons her candidacy was not successful, chief among them was her decision to brand herself a “progressive prosecutor.” She was not, at least not by today’s standards."
https://theappeal.org/kamala-harris-criminal-justice-record-killed-her-presidential-run/ (https://theappeal.org/kamala-harris-criminal-justice-record-killed-her-presidential-run/)
Doesn't seem to be a worthwhile record.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 12, 2020, 11:24:25 AM
I don’t recall lauding her record as AG just rebuffing Thonk’s ridiculous assertion that her only qualification is her skin colour and sex
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on August 12, 2020, 12:01:43 PM
And Kamala Harris ... congratulations on being a black woman. Its the only qualification required to be Biden's VP. You are the token box ticker who is purely there because the Dems are obsessed with race, sex and victimhood.

She's got more qualifications than Trump.  If Trump is the low bar, she's in orbit.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 02:56:57 PM
It looks to me like the democrats have given up this year. Biden is a waste of space.

Their campaign is a negative one. It isn't vote for Biden. It is vote against Trump. Those types of campaigns fail to bring out base support because the base isn't enthusiastic about its own candidate. I can't see the dems winning ... thank god.

And Kamala Harris ... congratulations on being a black woman. Its the only qualification required to be Biden's VP. You are the token box ticker who is purely there because the Dems are obsessed with race, sex and victimhood.

I'm not buying this argument against people for voting "against trump".

If someone is in power that is obviously a tyrant, guilty of treason, and other covered-up crimes, and you wanted them out of office, wouldn't the logical thing be to vote for their opponent? I mean, that's just common sense. You don't like someone, don't vote for them, and sometimes that means simply voting the other way - nothing wrong with that.

Trump is literally THAT terrible that so many Americans are going to settle for just "voting against trump". People might not be enthusiastic about getting Biden in office, but they are enthusiastic about getting Trump out of office.

That doesn't say anything negative about the voters, that says a hell of a lot about the POTUS.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 12, 2020, 03:12:24 PM
I'm not buying this argument against people for voting "against trump".

And yet you then go on to say

Trump is literally THAT terrible that so many Americans are going to settle for just "voting against trump". People might not be enthusiastic about getting Biden in office, but they are enthusiastic about getting Trump out of office.

You just re-worded my exact statement that you refused to buy.  ::)

If someone is in power that is obviously a tyrant
Do you know what tyrant means? Is he having people murdered? Is there a secret police making his enemies disappear? Is torture a regular thing in the US? Is he confiscating land and businesses? Is he removing people's right to practise religion? Is he enslaving people or creating a genocide? Dems are so babyish. There is no nuance, just like a child. They just throw our idiotic terms like racist, tyrant, orange man bad. What a pampered child you are to think Trump is a tyrant. Try living under Idi Amin or Pol Pot.

guilty of treason
I must have missed this trial. Can you point me to the case where he was found guilty of treason. Because if you can't, he's innocent until proven guilty and just because you screech guilty like a peasant at a witch trial doesn't make it so.

, and other covered-up crimes,
How convenient. He's committed crimes, but just crimes he covered up so as I can't verify them ... but they happened, because you said so.  ::)



I really hope your lot don't get in. Just look how you all behave. Hollywood celebs, the mainstream media in the US, and the braying harpies that support the dems. Squealing and accusing people of crimes that never happened because you don't like a candidate. Its fine not to like a candidate, but yours is the dishonest party. The party that tells all the lies. The party that divides with identity politics. The party that is filled with awful left-wing extremists advocating to defund the police, burn books and pull down statues, nominates candidates based on the colour of their skin, believes in the original sin of white privilege ... its a shit show and such a basket case of a party shouldn't be anywhere near power. Trump is positively sophisticated compared to your lot. 5 more years please America. We don't want a senile puppet with a Marxists hand up his arse for a leader of the free world, thank you very much.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 03:17:33 PM
I'm not buying this argument against people for voting "against trump".

And yet you then go on to say

Trump is literally THAT terrible that so many Americans are going to settle for just "voting against trump". People might not be enthusiastic about getting Biden in office, but they are enthusiastic about getting Trump out of office.

You just re-worded my exact statement that you refused to buy.  ::)


No worries, you simply mis-read my statement. Read it again, but more slowly this time.....

I said I wasn't buying your argument "AGAINST" people who .....

So what if they vote against Trump.... this is what I said.

If someone is in power that is obviously a tyrant
Do you know what tyrant means? Is he having people murdered? Is there a secret police making his enemies disappear? Is torture a regular thing in the US? Is he confiscating land and businesses? Is he removing people's right to practise religion? Is he enslaving people or creating a genocide? Dems are so babyish. There is no nuance, just like a child. They just throw our idiotic terms like racist, tyrant, orange man bad. What a pampered child you are to think Trump is a tyrant. Try living under Idi Amin or Pol Pot.

Tyrant means someone who rules with absolute power - I believe Trump has been quoted saying something like, "The president has all authority".

There is also a thing in this country called "The Patriot Act" which allows the government to take people away (make them disappear) if they feel they are a threat.

Quote
Is torture a regular thing in the US?

Have you heard of Guantanamo?


guilty of treason
I must have missed this trial. Can you point me to the case where he was found guilty of treason. Because if you can't, he's innocent until proven guilty and just because you screech guilty like a peasant at a witch trial doesn't make it so.

, and other covered-up crimes,
How convenient. He's committed crimes, but just crimes he covered up so as I can't verify them ... but they happened, because you said so.  ::)



I really hope your lot don't get in. Just look how you all behave. Hollywood celebs, the mainstream media in the US, and the braying harpies that support the dems. Squealing and accusing people of crimes that never happened because you don't like a candidate. Its fine not to like a candidate, but yours is the dishonest party. The party that tells all the lies. The party that divides with identity politics. The party that is filled with awful left-wing extremists advocating to defund the police, burn books and pull down statues, nominates candidates based on the colour of their skin, believes in the original sin of white privilege ... its a shit show and such a basket case of a party should be anywhere near power. Trump is positively sophisticated compared to your lot. 5 more years please America. We don't want a senile puppet with a Marxists hand up his arse for a leader of the free world, thank you very much.

Who knows what the hell Trump is really doing. This is the game he plays - divide, concur, and confuse. I have no proof of anything I have just accused him of, but does that really matter what I accuse him of? He has shown his inability to be president - that is what matters. He has shown that he does not have your interests at heart - that is what matters.

I don't know for sure that Trump has committed these crimes, but I know for sure he only cares about himself - this alone is enough for me to not vote for him.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 12, 2020, 03:50:20 PM
I could discredit your entire post but its like shooting fish in a barrel at this point. We'll just cut to the chase.

Who knows what the hell Trump is really doing.
Well you just accused him of being a tyrant, a traitor and a criminal ... I'm hoping you know what he's been up to before you start accusing him of the worst possible things you can think of.

This is the game he plays - divide, concur, and confuse.
No, that would be the Democrat party. Black Lives Matter, Antifa, policed speech and thought, hate crimes. It is all about pitting people against each other based on inherent biological properties.
https://youtu.be/We6Qr9-dDn8?t=19


I have no proof of anything I have just accused him of
Wow. Just wow. And there is a motto for the Dems in this Presidential election. You summed it up in a sentence. That is the Democratic platform for the next election.

but does that really matter what I accuse him of?
Dunno. How would you feel about people libelling you? What if people said you were a peadophile on the internet. Would you like that? Is it civilised. Apparently it doesn't matter what people accuse you of and its fine even if they have no proof. Who looks like the awful weasel who would say anything to get their political way? You or Trump?

He has shown his inability to be president - that is what matters.
He's almost done 4 years. Where is the inability? He's still President.

He has shown that he does not have your interests at heart - that is what matters.
No, he doesn't. I'm British and as he said from his first day in office ... America First! He's got YOUR interests at heart. This is why he's trying to bring jobs back from China. Why he isn't starting wars so young men like you aren't coming back in body bags. Why he is trying to reduce illegal immigration to prevent crime and a collapse in wages for US citizens. If you had any perspective, you'd look at what he has ACTUALLY DONE and realise he's been a pretty good President, despite the dems trying to block progress at every turn. So he says dumb stuff some times. But his actions are those of a good President. He does the right thing 9 times out of 10. No Dem would get close to that. Too much corporate interest.

I don't know for sure that Trump has committed these crimes
then how about you stop accusing him of them. It is you that then looks like the morally devoid one. Not trump.

but I know for sure he only cares about himself
No, you don't know that either. Stop talking off the top of your head as though your unfounded statements are real.

this alone is enough for me to not vote for him.
No. You're a leftist. A narcissist. Its you first. Not America. You want people to say you are virtuous, and you will stand up for other people's rights. Not because you care about them. Because you want the virtue. You'll speak up for them, not because you care about their plight but because you want to wrestle the mic off them and make yourself the centre of attention. You want people to think you are brave standing up to a tyrant ... when you aren't in any danger at all because TRUMP ISN'T A TYRANT! You're a self-absorbed leftist baby ... and this is why you vote Dems. Its nothing to do with Trump in the slightest.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 04:20:02 PM
Who knows what the hell Trump is really doing.
Well you just accused him of being a tyrant, a traitor and a criminal ... I'm hoping you know what he's been up to before you start accusing him of the worst possible things you can think of.

He has not been convicted of any crimes, so I can't say for sure what he's been up to. However, I did offer you proof that he runs the country like a tyrant. And he cries and whines when he realizes he isn't total authority. This happened when he didn't get his way about the wall, twitter, media, and now tik tok (although he may get his way here).


I have no proof of anything I have just accused him of
Wow. Just wow. And there is a motto for the Dems in this Presidential election. You summed it up in a sentence. That is the Democratic platform for the next election.

You see, the thing about being an American, is that it is my right to have opinions of people, and speak about it, regardless whether or not someone disagrees with me.

but does that really matter what I accuse him of?
Dunno. How would you feel about people libelling you? What if people said you were a peadophile on the internet. Would you like that? Is it civilised. Apparently it doesn't matter what people accuse you of and its fine even if they have no proof. Who looks like the awful weasel who would say anything to get their political way? You or Trump?

Oh poor f'ing Trump. Someone accuses him of awfulness, he can go cry in a corner for all I care - if accusations get him down, why the hell does he put himself in the spotlight? Are you kidding me??? Trump LOVES the attention he gets from people like me who call him out for his BS.

As I said, it is my right to say whatever the hell I want to about the president. 


He has shown his inability to be president - that is what matters.
He's almost done 5 years. Where is the inability? He's still President.

And yet he was impeached.


He has shown that he does not have your interests at heart - that is what matters.
No, he doesn't. I'm British

Don't be pedantic.


I don't know for sure that Trump has committed these crimes
then how about you stop accusing him of them. It is you that then looks like the morally devoid one. Not trump.

Riiiight. I'm calling out the POTUS for being a tyrant when he has demonstrated tyrant mentality publicly on more than one occasion, accusing him of crimes that have been well publicized and covered up by the POTUS asserting his tyrant mentality to block evidence from court, and you say I'm the one who is morally devoid? You don't know who the fuck I am, nor do you know what the fuck you're talking about.

but I know for sure he only cares about himself
No, you don't know that either. Stop talking off the top of your head as though your unfounded statements are real.

this alone is enough for me to not vote for him.
No. You're a leftist. A narcissist. Its you first. Not America. You want people to say you are virtuous, and you will stand up for other people's rights. Not because you care about them. Because you want the virtue. You'll speak up for them, not because you care about their plight but because you want to wrestle the mic off them and make yourself the centre of attention. You want people to think you are brave standing up to a tyrant ... when you aren't in any danger at all because TRUMP ISN'T A TYRANT! You're a self-absorbed leftist baby ... and this is why you vote Dems. Its nothing to do with Trump in the slightest.

Don't act like your some righteous moral being - I've seen your posts. You calling me a narcissist is laughable.

Furthermore, your opinions of me have nothing to do with Trump being an insufferable ego-maniac tyrant.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 12, 2020, 04:48:23 PM
He has not been convicted of any crimes
But you accused him anyway.

However, I did offer you proof that he runs the country like a tyrant.
I'm still waiting for this proof. Please provide it.

And he cries and whines when he realizes he isn't total authority. This happened when he didn't get his way about the wall, twitter, media, and now tik tok (although he may get his way here).
OMG. A politician tried to get his manifesto promise done, was blocked by the opposition and then complained about that. Well stop the press. We have a monster on our hands!

You see, the thing about being an American, is that it is my right to have opinions of people, and speak about it, regardless whether or not someone disagrees with me.
The thing about being an American is the person you are trying to damage also has rights and your rights end where their rights begin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States#Defamation


Oh poor f'ing Trump. Someone accuses him of awfulness, he can go cry in a corner for all I care - if accusations get him down, why the hell does he put himself in the spotlight? Are you kidding me??? Trump LOVES the attention he gets from people like me who call him out for his BS.
All I see is your BS. Lie upon lie about things Trump never did such as commit treason or subject Americans to tyranny.

As I said, it is my right to say whatever the hell I want to about the president. 
And its my right to call you out on your BS.

And yet he was impeached.
The Senate acquitted Trump of these charges on February 5, 2020. So Dems all voted him guilty ... because just like you they don't care about the truth, only the result. Not one Republican agreed. It was a dark day for the Democrat party. Nio due process. Just might is right. Superior numbers found a man guilty. Just awful. Can't believe you'd want such people running the country.


He has shown that he does not have your interests at heart - that is what matters.
No, he doesn't. I'm British

Don't be pedantic.
You mean accurate. You're asking, don't bring facts into the discussion.

Riiiight. I'm calling out the POTUS for being a tyrant when he has demonstrated tyrant mentality
Tyrant mentality? Is that a thought crime? You are saying he hasn't actually been a tyrant ... but he said things you don't like and suspect might be a bit tyranty because you don't know what a tyrant is.  ::)

You don't know who the fuck I am, nor do you know what the fuck you're talking about.
Actually, I don't know what the fuck you are talking about and neither do you. Its just rhetoric. Utter twaddle. You've been indoctrinated by the leftists.

(https://theinfosphere.org/images/thumb/d/d6/Brain_Slugs.jpg/600px-Brain_Slugs.jpg)

Don't act like your some righteous moral being - I've seen your posts. You calling me a narcissist is laughable.

Furthermore, your opinions of me have nothing to do with Trump being an insufferable ego-maniac tyrant.
You keep using that word tyrant, don't you? Despite admitting you have zero proof.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: timterroo on August 12, 2020, 05:01:37 PM
Bullshit aside.....

Riiiight. I'm calling out the POTUS for being a tyrant when he has demonstrated tyrant mentality
Tyrant mentality? Is that a thought crime? You are saying he hasn't actually been a tyrant ... but he said things you don't like and suspect might be a bit tyranty because you don't know what a tyrant is.  ::)

You keep using that word tyrant, don't you? Despite admitting you have zero proof.

He is a tyrant. He has been restricted in his ability to act on this because of the American process - thank god.

He has shown his ability to be a tyrant in his first few months in office when he separated children from their parents because their parents didn't have the right to be in the country - the children, on the other hand were innocent, and they were immorally oppressed by the POTUS.

Along those same lines, Trump has called for "foreigners" to leave the country time and time again. He is doing it now with international students by sending them home if they can't otherwise be present for classes due to coronavirus - oppression.

Trump has taken rights from the American people when he used federal police officers to illegally remove citizens from expressing their constitutional rights.

This is all oppression.

Trump has made statements about his "total authority", truly believing that he is the be all, end all. He would exercise this delusion if he could.

The fact that Trump has been held accountable by the American process has prevented him from becoming full-fledged tyrant. That doesn't mean he isn't one, and wouldn't be one.

All of the above is more than rhetoric - these are the actions of one man.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 12, 2020, 05:17:33 PM
He has shown his ability to be a tyrant in his first few months in office when he separated children from their parents because their parents didn't have the right to be in the country - the children, on the other hand were innocent, and they were immorally oppressed by the POTUS.
So people who broke the law were separated from their families? Yes, this happens in every country on earth. It is called prison.

Along those same lines, Trump has called for "foreigners" to leave the country time and time again. He is doing it now with international students by sending them home if they can't otherwise be present for classes due to coronavirus - oppression.
He doesn't represent foreigners. Foreigners don't vote. He represents Americans and American needs. And getting rid of criminals, illegal immigrants, trafficked people and terrorists is his job.

Trump has taken rights from the American people when he used federal police officers to illegally remove citizens from expressing their constitutional rights.
Citation please.

This is all oppression.
It is called maintaining law and order. Supporting a party that wants to defund the police, I guess you aren't going to be able to grasp that one. Seems you prefer anarchy and an unsafe society.

Trump has made statements about his "total authority", truly believing that he is the be all, end all. He would exercise this delusion if he could.
He is the most powerful man on earth. What is your point?

The fact that Trump has been held accountable by the American process has prevented him from becoming full-fledged tyrant.
That's like saying your father would be a peadophile if there weren't laws to prevent peadophilia.

That doesn't mean he isn't one, and wouldn't be one.
I guess your father is a peadophile, then.  ::)

All of the above is more than rhetoric - these are the actions of one man.
Its rhetoric.

https://youtu.be/p8M2tg2RkIQ?t=163
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 21, 2020, 02:57:31 PM
Joe Biden draws a crowd in Delaware - https://streamable.com/pl5llr
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 21, 2020, 03:15:13 PM
Joe Biden draws a crowd in Delaware - https://streamable.com/pl5llr

Trump fans have to do something to distract themselves from the ongoing exposure of corruption and incompetence in his administration. Turns out cognitive dissonance is difficult to maintain when you pay attention to facts.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: jimbaker7773 on August 21, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
He has shown his ability to be a tyrant in his first few months in office when he separated children from their parents because their parents didn't have the right to be in the country - the children, on the other hand were innocent, and they were immorally oppressed by the POTUS.
To be more accurate, he separated some children from some people claiming to be the parents. Plus, adults who model illegal behavior should not do so in front of children.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: jimbaker7773 on August 21, 2020, 03:43:02 PM
Joe Biden draws a crowd in Delaware - https://streamable.com/pl5llr

Trump fans have to do something to distract themselves from the ongoing exposure of corruption and incompetence in his administration. Turns out cognitive dissonance is difficult to maintain when you pay attention to facts.
What ongoing exposure of what corruption?If you are referring to Steve Bannon, he isn't associated with the Trump Administration.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 21, 2020, 03:53:38 PM
Joe Biden draws a crowd in Delaware - https://streamable.com/pl5llr

Trump fans have to do something to distract themselves from the ongoing exposure of corruption and incompetence in his administration. Turns out cognitive dissonance is difficult to maintain when you pay attention to facts.
What ongoing exposure of what corruption?If you are referring to Steve Bannon, he isn't associated with the Trump Administration.

He was.  He was an advisor in the White House.  Literally privy to top secret information.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 21, 2020, 03:56:53 PM
Joe Biden draws a crowd in Delaware - https://streamable.com/pl5llr

Trump fans have to do something to distract themselves from the ongoing exposure of corruption and incompetence in his administration. Turns out cognitive dissonance is difficult to maintain when you pay attention to facts.
What ongoing exposure of what corruption?

USPS anyone?
Quote
If you are referring to Steve Bannon, he isn't associated with the Trump Administration.

Not anymore, Total Lackey at least not directly. Bannon’s allegedly fraudulent organization has ties with DTJr though.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on August 21, 2020, 03:59:44 PM
"I hardly knew the guy..."

I don't know about you, but Trump seems to not know a whole lot of people that he hand picked to work directly for him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 21, 2020, 05:36:34 PM
He was going to pick all the best people. Until he fired them or they left and they became incompetent idiots.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on August 22, 2020, 02:44:08 AM
It's important Joe Biden is given the best medical care known in the US. For Gods sake he was vice pres. , You ok joe?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 22, 2020, 10:48:24 AM
It's important Joe Biden is given the best medical care known in the US. For Gods sake he was vice pres. , You ok joe?

What? What does this pertain to?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on August 22, 2020, 11:04:28 AM
It's important Joe Biden is given the best medical care known in the US. For Gods sake he was vice pres. , You ok joe?

He's getting along just fine without posting random stuff on the interwebs. You OK, J-Man?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 22, 2020, 11:11:39 PM
Joe Biden grifting his speeches from other politicians again - https://nationalpost.com/news/joe-biden-accused-of-plagiarizing-from-jack-laytons-final-letter-in-nomination-speech
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 23, 2020, 04:36:16 AM
Joe Biden grifting his speeches from other politicians again - https://nationalpost.com/news/joe-biden-accused-of-plagiarizing-from-jack-laytons-final-letter-in-nomination-speech

Eh.
Its not a direct quote.  It has a similar tone but thats about it.  Not like its a complex 3 sentences.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on August 23, 2020, 10:53:43 AM
Joe Biden grifting his speeches from other politicians again

So what? If you think this paints Trump's speaking "skills" in a good light, think again...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 27, 2020, 12:47:55 PM
So what? If you think this paints Trump's speaking "skills" in a good light, think again...
Perhaps we should be able to discuss Joe Biden without regressing to "ok but Trump bad"? Their speaking skills can be looked at independently of one another.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on August 27, 2020, 11:46:34 PM
Once again, it's clear that the Democrats do not even like their own candidate, they are anti-Trump, not pro-Biden. This was the same way in 2016, when Democrats were anti-Trump, not pro-Clinton. It's the exact same thing that's going to cost them the election. The DNC had four years, four fucking years to find someone better than literally Donald Trump and they picked Joe Biden. It's like something out of a bad political novel.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 27, 2020, 11:52:41 PM
To be fair the GOP doesn’t like Trump either. Your country is fucked.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 28, 2020, 12:02:59 AM
So what? If you think this paints Trump's speaking "skills" in a good light, think again...
Perhaps we should be able to discuss Joe Biden without regressing to "ok but Trump bad"? Their speaking skills can be looked at independently of one another.

With Tom? Seems unlikely.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on August 28, 2020, 12:08:28 AM
To be fair the GOP doesn’t like Trump either. Your country is fucked.

The GOP doesn't like Trump but Trump has plenty of people who fanatically support him. That kind of fanatical support existing only on one side is what will likely cause Biden to lose.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on August 28, 2020, 01:20:03 AM
Joe Biden grifting his speeches from other politicians again

So what? If you think this paints Trump's speaking "skills" in a good light, think again...

I didn't say anything about Trump. You have some issues.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 28, 2020, 01:25:39 AM
Joe Biden grifting his speeches from other politicians again

So what? If you think this paints Trump's speaking "skills" in a good light, think again...

I didn't say anything about Trump. You have some issues.

You’ve said plenty on the topic of their respective speaking skills. Don’t be dishonest, Tom.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 28, 2020, 01:38:43 AM
To be fair the GOP doesn’t like Trump either. Your country is fucked.

The GOP doesn't like Trump but Trump has plenty of people who fanatically support him. That kind of fanatical support existing only on one side is what will likely cause Biden to lose.

Well the fanatics are a minority of the population so he will need something more than that. Not saying it won’t happen but it seems less likely than in 2016.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 28, 2020, 01:54:07 AM
To be fair the GOP doesn’t like Trump either. Your country is fucked.

The GOP doesn't like Trump but Trump has plenty of people who fanatically support him. That kind of fanatical support existing only on one side is what will likely cause Biden to lose.

The thing is that people who are against Trump are kind of fanatical about that, too, and that's only intensified after 4 years in office, so it's a different dynamic from what we've seen in the past.

But still you have a point, and I'm glad you made it. We need people making completely reasonable arguments about the danger we're facing in this election. You can never count Trump out, Republicans tend to turn out in higher numbers as a rule, and fear seems to be the only thing that really mobilizes Democrats, unfortunately. If people start seeing Joe's winning as a foregone conclusion they might just stay at home again. Although I do hope that the overwhelming hatred the majority of the country has for Trump is enough of a factor on its own that enough Democrats are primed to vote to make a difference.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: existoid on August 29, 2020, 03:18:03 AM
To be fair the GOP doesn’t like Trump either. Your country is fucked.

The GOP doesn't like Trump but Trump has plenty of people who fanatically support him. That kind of fanatical support existing only on one side is what will likely cause Biden to lose.



Well the fanatics are a minority of the population so he will need something more than that. Not saying it won’t happen but it seems less likely than in 2016.


Before the election in 2016 everyone knew that Trump would lose.  Then he didn't.

I think Rushy has a solid point - no one is excited about Biden. Like, literally no one.  Plenty of folks are still excited about Trump, even if a minority overall.  The elections are always decided by the center. And the center gets slightly pulled to the side that has the most passion overall.  Obama is a fantastic example of this.

I am not particularly a fan of Trump, but I think he has a decent chance.

One thing I read was that after the DNC convention there was a DIP in polls favoring Biden. That basically never happens. Conventions lead to (temporary) bumps in the polls for that side.  But the opposite happened this time for the the DNC.  Could be a symptom or example of the lack of enthusiasm for Biden.  That could be hugely problematic for the DNC...










Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 29, 2020, 09:01:50 PM
The thing is that people who are against Trump are kind of fanatical about that, too, and that's only intensified after 4 years in office, so it's a different dynamic from what we've seen in the past.

But still you have a point, and I'm glad you made it. We need people making completely reasonable arguments about the danger we're facing in this election. You can never count Trump out, Republicans tend to turn out in higher numbers as a rule, and fear seems to be the only thing that really mobilizes Democrats, unfortunately. If people start seeing Joe's winning as a foregone conclusion they might just stay at home again. Although I do hope that the overwhelming hatred the majority of the country has for Trump is enough of a factor on its own that enough Democrats are primed to vote to make a difference.

Ok, let's unpack this nonsense.

The thing is that people who are against Trump are kind of fanatical about that, too, and that's only intensified after 4 years in office, so it's a different dynamic from what we've seen in the past.
This is a one horse race. Are you for Trump or against Trump? No one cares about Biden.

We need people making completely reasonable arguments about the danger we're facing in this election.
Why are Democrats always so melodramatic? There is no danger. You might not get your first pick of President but its not the end of the world.

You can never count Trump out,
Rule him out? He's going to win. What kind of echo chamber are you living in to think a man with full blown dementia is going to be elected by middle America instead? Also Biden being weak on crime is the final nail. You can't side with rioters and those advocating to defund the police. What an asshat.

If people start seeing Joe's winning as a foregone conclusion
Then they need to stop watching so much CNN.

Although I do hope that the overwhelming hatred the majority of the country has for Trump is enough of a factor on its own that enough Democrats are primed to vote to make a difference.
People won't vote against a President. Apathy will reign supreme. They need someone to vote for and literally no one is excited about Biden.

4 more years.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 30, 2020, 01:16:31 AM
Thork, you obviously don’t pay much attention. Some segments of Fox News has been praising Biden and criticizing Trump lately. This isn’t just a left wing echo chamber.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 30, 2020, 02:03:04 PM
Thork lives in a fantasy world. No incumbent President with a favorability rating under 48% has ever won reelection. Trump's has never gone above 42. Biden is still kicking his ass in the polls. There's simply no logical reason to think Trump has a better shot at winning right now.

It's weird that right-wingers in other countries would be in denial about the state of the election right now, but apparently even they can be delusional about where this is headed.

But I do love him for being there to help sow the seeds of fear. Thanks for the effort, Thork, it can only help.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 30, 2020, 03:20:38 PM
Thork lives in a fantasy world. No incumbent President with a favorability rating under 48% has ever won reelection. Trump's has never gone above 42. Biden is still kicking his ass in the polls. There's simply no logical reason to think Trump has a better shot at winning right now.
Biden is only leading by 6 percentage points? Biden is toast.
https://time.com/4546942/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-lead-poll/

1) The US media is almost all left wing.
2) They know that many left-wing Americans are narcissistic babies and will only vote if they think they will win. Seems so many Americans hate losing that they won't vote for a candidate that will likely lose. The left are always told that they will win.
3) Conservative voters are much less likely to tell posters their voting intentions as left wingers tend to get violent.
4) Many young people (who are much more likely to vote left) tend to be very vocal about their voting intentions and then don't bother their arses to vote on the day. Same with the hispanic vote. 

It's weird that right-wingers in other countries would be in denial about the state of the election right now, but apparently even they can be delusional about where this is headed.

But I do love him for being there to help sow the seeds of fear. Thanks for the effort, Thork, it can only help.
Every election in the last 5 years that predicted a left wing vote massively over inflated their chances.

Trump 2016
Brexit
UK Conservative whitewash 2019

You guys won't learn.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy_Tory_factor
The shy Tory factor is a name given by British opinion polling companies to a phenomenon first observed by psephologists in the early 1990s. They observed that the share of the electoral vote won by the Conservative Party (known colloquially as the "Tories") was significantly higher than the equivalent share in opinion polls.[1] The accepted explanation was that so-called "shy Tories" were voting Conservative after telling pollsters they would not. The general elections held in 1992 and 2015 are examples where it has dramatically affected the overall result, but has also been discussed in other elections where the Conservatives did unexpectedly well. It has also been applied to the success of the Republican Party in the United States.

+6% means you guys will get wrecked in the final reckoning.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on August 30, 2020, 04:06:49 PM
This insight by the guy who frequently shits on polls as not worthwhile.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 30, 2020, 04:14:03 PM
2018 blue wave.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 30, 2020, 05:02:27 PM
This insight by the guy who frequently shits on polls as not worthwhile.
I've heard all this from the left before. One day you'll win an election, but I don't think it will be in 2020.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on August 30, 2020, 05:59:40 PM
All these partisan warriors are missing the fact that Trump was a gigantic piece of shit long before he became president. Because the American public has the attention span of a house fly, they've forgotten all about Marla Maples, Trump Taj Mahal, Trump University and all the other bullshit that is his life. This has nothing to do with left or right media, his public life is decades of scandal and failure. But some stupid catch phrases and empty, impossible promises is all it takes for dumbass people whip out their credit cards to order now. This man destroyed his family's fortune, crashed a half dozen companies into the ground while saddling all those small contractors with the cost in bankruptcy filings. American finance institutions won't go near this guy but the ignorant public is buying his ghost-written books on business. His only real success money-wise was stamping his name on cheap imported crap and selling it to dumb rednecks. Then he shot himself in the dick with his "MAGA! Made in America" routine, and destroyed that business too.

But, this is where the Democrats will lose. Their trying to use logic and truth on a public that believes the garbage they read in the National Enquirer. If the Democrats, "Go high when they go low," they're going to get kicked in the nuts again.

I'm a politically conservative Libertarian independent who owns guns and has a concealed carry permit. But because I'm not stupid and I don't eat his shit, he calls me a liberal globalist who hates America and wants to take your guns. Fuck him.

He's using the conservative movement, the Republicans, the Evangelicals to further his agenda just like he was using Hillary Clinton and the Democrats a few years ago when they suited him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 30, 2020, 06:31:29 PM
Thork lives in a fantasy world. No incumbent President with a favorability rating under 48% has ever won reelection. Trump's has never gone above 42. Biden is still kicking his ass in the polls. There's simply no logical reason to think Trump has a better shot at winning right now.
Biden is only leading by 6 percentage points? Biden is toast.
https://time.com/4546942/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-lead-poll/

1) The US media is almost all left wing.
2) They know that many left-wing Americans are narcissistic babies and will only vote if they think they will win. Seems so many Americans hate losing that they won't vote for a candidate that will likely lose. The left are always told that they will win.
3) Conservative voters are much less likely to tell posters their voting intentions as left wingers tend to get violent.
4) Many young people (who are much more likely to vote left) tend to be very vocal about their voting intentions and then don't bother their arses to vote on the day. Same with the hispanic vote. 

It's weird that right-wingers in other countries would be in denial about the state of the election right now, but apparently even they can be delusional about where this is headed.

But I do love him for being there to help sow the seeds of fear. Thanks for the effort, Thork, it can only help.
Every election in the last 5 years that predicted a left wing vote massively over inflated their chances.

Trump 2016
Brexit
UK Conservative whitewash 2019

You guys won't learn.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy_Tory_factor
The shy Tory factor is a name given by British opinion polling companies to a phenomenon first observed by psephologists in the early 1990s. They observed that the share of the electoral vote won by the Conservative Party (known colloquially as the "Tories") was significantly higher than the equivalent share in opinion polls.[1] The accepted explanation was that so-called "shy Tories" were voting Conservative after telling pollsters they would not. The general elections held in 1992 and 2015 are examples where it has dramatically affected the overall result, but has also been discussed in other elections where the Conservatives did unexpectedly well. It has also been applied to the success of the Republican Party in the United States.

+6% means you guys will get wrecked in the final reckoning.

Yes, yes. Keep sowing that fear! Democrats not showing up to vote is exactly what I'm afraid of in this election, and the Right's constant assurances that Trump will win despite what the polls say is the ideal antidote. Thanks again for your contribution to the cause!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 30, 2020, 06:40:17 PM
Many years ago Trump owned an airline called Trump Shuttle. Here is what one of his former employees (pilot) had to say about him.

Quote from: ex-Trump employee
It really wasn't a failure. I think it was pretty successful. I mean, Trump saved our careers, I mean, absolutely. They really took care of their employees. My wife, who had breast cancer, the CEO of the company, he said, "Hey, any bills that aren't covered, just leave it on my desk."

I left some bills on those desks. It was like, I don't know, a $30,000 pharmacy bill. You know, that's how I was treated, and so I'm sure that came down from Trump. I don't have anything bad to say.

Today, the US Air Shuttle is known as the American Airlines Shuttle. It serves New York, Boston, Washington, and Chicago.

Could you imagine Biden doing that in your wildest dreams?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on August 30, 2020, 06:47:02 PM
Many years ago Trump owned an airline called Trump Shuttle. Here is what one of his former employees (pilot) had to say about him.

Quote from: ex-Trump employee
It really wasn't a failure. I think it was pretty successful. I mean, Trump saved our careers, I mean, absolutely. They really took care of their employees. My wife, who had breast cancer, the CEO of the company, he said, "Hey, any bills that aren't covered, just leave it on my desk."

I left some bills on those desks. It was like, I don't know, a $30,000 pharmacy bill. You know, that's how I was treated, and so I'm sure that came down from Trump. I don't have anything bad to say.

Today, the US Air Shuttle is known as the American Airlines Shuttle. It serves New York, Boston, Washington, and Chicago.


You're quoting Trump generated mythology and believing it.

Trump fired 100 employees. Just 18 months after the Trump Shuttle launch, the airline had already lost $128 million. In 1992, Donald Trump decided it was time to bail. Trump Shuttle's majority stakeholder, Citigroup, started negotiating a sale with US Air, who still saw value in the product. Donald Trump claimed he didn't lose money on the shuttle. He told the Boston Globe, "I'm smart. I got out at a good time."

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 31, 2020, 04:06:02 AM
Many years ago Trump owned an airline called Trump Shuttle. Here is what one of his former employees (pilot) had to say about him.

Quote from: ex-Trump employee
It really wasn't a failure. I think it was pretty successful. I mean, Trump saved our careers, I mean, absolutely. They really took care of their employees. My wife, who had breast cancer, the CEO of the company, he said, "Hey, any bills that aren't covered, just leave it on my desk."

I left some bills on those desks. It was like, I don't know, a $30,000 pharmacy bill. You know, that's how I was treated, and so I'm sure that came down from Trump. I don't have anything bad to say.

Today, the US Air Shuttle is known as the American Airlines Shuttle. It serves New York, Boston, Washington, and Chicago.

Could you imagine Biden doing that in your wildest dreams?

So you're saying that Trump personally knew that one guy who worked for a company he owned but didn't manage and told the ceo to cover medical bills not covered by their crappy insurance?

No.  Its far more likely that the CEO did it themselves, hiding the bills in the company's finances.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on August 31, 2020, 06:05:49 AM
No.  Its far more likely that the CEO did it themselves, hiding the bills in the company's finances.


Quote from: ex-Trump employee
and so I'm sure that came down from Trump.
Sure. Clearly you with your TDS having not been there, have a better idea than the guy it actually happened to.  ::)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on August 31, 2020, 07:55:57 AM
And then everybody clapped.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 31, 2020, 09:23:27 AM
No.  Its far more likely that the CEO did it themselves, hiding the bills in the company's finances.


Quote from: ex-Trump employee
and so I'm sure that came down from Trump.
Sure. Clearly you with your TDS having not been there, have a better idea than the guy it actually happened to.  ::)

Does that sound like Trump?  Doing expensive, good deeds without recognition?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on August 31, 2020, 05:00:55 PM
No.  Its far more likely that the CEO did it themselves, hiding the bills in the company's finances.


Quote from: ex-Trump employee
and so I'm sure that came down from Trump.
Sure. Clearly you with your TDS having not been there, have a better idea than the guy it actually happened to.  ::)

The guy makes it clear in your quote that he's assuming the money came down from Trump. He states that it was the CEO who actually made the offer. But I guess you know better than the guy it actually happened to who didn't know himself.  ::)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: existoid on August 31, 2020, 05:30:14 PM
Sooo....back to the OP of this thread -


Now that the RNC and DNC conventions are over, what are the best guesses?  Who is REALLY going to win?  Biden is up by around 6% right?  But hasn't that gap been narrowing for a while now?  It's still two whole months away.  Is Biden a sure thing, or does Trump have a good chance?

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on August 31, 2020, 06:18:34 PM
Trump's premise from the convention is largely;

"Look at all the riots that are happening under my Presidency, right now. This is what you'll get if you elect Biden. Vote for four more years of me"

The sub-text to that is "... so that... we don't get more of the same. Even though this is what's happening 3.5 years after I took office"
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: TomInAustin on August 31, 2020, 06:24:24 PM
Sooo....back to the OP of this thread -


Now that the RNC and DNC conventions are over, what are the best guesses?  Who is REALLY going to win?  Biden is up by around 6% right?  But hasn't that gap been narrowing for a while now?  It's still two whole months away.  Is Biden a sure thing, or does Trump have a good chance?

Thoughts?

One thing the polls do not show is the huge numbers of life long Republicans that will hold their noses and vote for Trump.   Too lazy to look it up but a recent poll showed that a large number of people are not honest with pollsters.  Many people are afraid of repercussions if they announce for Trump.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: existoid on August 31, 2020, 06:25:23 PM
Trump's premise from the convention is largely;

"Look at all the riots that are happening under my Presidency, right now. This is what you'll get if you elect Biden. Vote for four more years of me"

The sub-text to that is "... so that... we don't get more of the same. Even though this is what's happening 3.5 years after I took office"

That is an interesting point.  Given that Trump has utterly failed to influence any real police reform (qualified immunity, training, all sorts of potential measures), it's kind of laughable that he would blame Biden for these riots.  Hilarious in fact. 

I can't say I've seen some realistic plan from Biden on how to address and stop the riots, though, either.

But the larger point of discussion would then be - are the riots going to help Trump (because law and order) or help Biden (because police brutality) ?  I can kind of seeing it go either way.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: existoid on August 31, 2020, 06:28:44 PM
Sooo....back to the OP of this thread -


Now that the RNC and DNC conventions are over, what are the best guesses?  Who is REALLY going to win?  Biden is up by around 6% right?  But hasn't that gap been narrowing for a while now?  It's still two whole months away.  Is Biden a sure thing, or does Trump have a good chance?

Thoughts?

One thing the polls do not show is the huge numbers of life long Republicans that will hold their noses and vote for Trump.   Too lazy to look it up but a recent poll showed that a large number of people are not honest with pollsters.  Many people are afraid of repercussions if they announce for Trump.

Yeah, that could be.   So, let's say that phenomenon has a 5% impact in favor of Trump, such that he's 1% below Biden (which is the same as saying they are exactly equal, given polling norms of errors), this means it could go either way and we have no idea.

So, before Nov. 2, 2016 Hillary was pretty close to certain to win. But now, Biden merely has an equal chance?  This is strangely turning out to be a fascinating race. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on August 31, 2020, 06:44:24 PM
I can't say I've seen some realistic plan from Biden on how to address and stop the riots, though, either.

Given that the protests are against police brutality, and Trump wants to meet this with more brutality, I would dismiss his plan as unrealistic. If pushed to the extreme, this could bring the country to civil war again.

Unaware of it being explicitly stated, but police reform and reduction in police brutality/ethnic bias would seem to be Biden's best option.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: TomInAustin on August 31, 2020, 07:10:19 PM
I can't say I've seen some realistic plan from Biden on how to address and stop the riots, though, either.

Given that the protests are against police brutality, and Trump wants to meet this with more brutality, I would dismiss his plan as unrealistic. If pushed to the extreme, this could bring the country to civil war again.

Unaware of it being explicitly stated, but police reform and reduction in police brutality/ethnic bias would seem to be Biden's best option.

Biden waited too long to denounce the violence and that scares the crap out of half the country.   

It still boils down to this for me...  Are these really the best two we could come up with.  I said the same in 16 but this makes that look like a picnic. 

Being an old fart, I have observed American politics for decades and I am blown away by the hatred each side has for the other.  I think civil war is a very real possibility no matter who wins.  The other side is going to scream cheaters!   Being very middle of the road and libertarian (not the party, the concepts) puts me in a weird place.  It's like going to prison, you have to pick a side.  Both sides are very poor choices.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on August 31, 2020, 07:14:27 PM
I can't say I've seen some realistic plan from Biden on how to address and stop the riots, though, either.

Given that the protests are against police brutality, and Trump wants to meet this with more brutality, I would dismiss his plan as unrealistic. If pushed to the extreme, this could bring the country to civil war again.

Unaware of it being explicitly stated, but police reform and reduction in police brutality/ethnic bias would seem to be Biden's best option.

Biden waited too long to denounce the violence and that scares the crap out of half the country.   

It still boils down to this for me...  Are these really the best two we could come up with.  I said the same in 16 but this makes that look like a picnic. 

Being an old fart, I have observed American politics for decades and I am blown away by the hatred each side has for the other.  I think civil war is a very real possibility no matter who wins.  The other side is going to scream cheaters!   Being very middle of the road and libertarian (not the party, the concepts) puts me in a weird place.  It's like going to prison, you have to pick a side.  Both sides are very poor choices.

Of course.  Its because both sides do anything they can to stop a 3rd party from forming with any real power.  The Tea Party has promise but they got sucked into the Republicans.

And as for the best they could come up with: Well, the people spoke.  And people are dumb.  They choose name recognition or "best chance to win" over actual policies and skill.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: TomInAustin on August 31, 2020, 07:24:46 PM

Biden waited too long to denounce the violence and that scares the crap out of half the country.   

It still boils down to this for me...  Are these really the best two we could come up with.  I said the same in 16 but this makes that look like a picnic. 

Being an old fart, I have observed American politics for decades and I am blown away by the hatred each side has for the other.  I think civil war is a very real possibility no matter who wins.  The other side is going to scream cheaters!   Being very middle of the road and libertarian (not the party, the concepts) puts me in a weird place.  It's like going to prison, you have to pick a side.  Both sides are very poor choices.

Of course.  Its because both sides do anything they can to stop a 3rd party from forming with any real power.  The Tea Party has promise but they got sucked into the Republicans.

And as for the best they could come up with: Well, the people spoke.  And people are dumb.  They choose name recognition or "best chance to win" over actual policies and skill.

Agree and a real 3rd party is our only hope.  With warlords like Mccain and Schumer and entrenched Nancy Pelosi and Mitch Mcconnell types only carrying about the party and personal power and wealth we will never get anywhere.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on August 31, 2020, 07:35:43 PM

Biden waited too long to denounce the violence and that scares the crap out of half the country.   

It still boils down to this for me...  Are these really the best two we could come up with.  I said the same in 16 but this makes that look like a picnic. 

Being an old fart, I have observed American politics for decades and I am blown away by the hatred each side has for the other.  I think civil war is a very real possibility no matter who wins.  The other side is going to scream cheaters!   Being very middle of the road and libertarian (not the party, the concepts) puts me in a weird place.  It's like going to prison, you have to pick a side.  Both sides are very poor choices.

Of course.  Its because both sides do anything they can to stop a 3rd party from forming with any real power.  The Tea Party has promise but they got sucked into the Republicans.

And as for the best they could come up with: Well, the people spoke.  And people are dumb.  They choose name recognition or "best chance to win" over actual policies and skill.

Agree and a real 3rd party is our only hope.  With warlords like Mccain and Schumer and entrenched Nancy Pelosi and Mitch Mcconnell types only carrying about the party and personal power and wealth we will never get anywhere.

California has ranked choice voting.  I loved voting there.  I could vote my conscience AND not throw away my vote.  Superb.

Until the whole US adopts it or something similar we're going to be stuck with two parties.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 01, 2020, 03:56:15 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/HpX2JBT/Egxqcg1-Xs-AUz-Ad-R.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 01, 2020, 05:39:53 AM
I wish you would use your own words to form your arguments and stop posting these dumb memes. They're really annoying. And Biden has never been in favor of rioting.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 01, 2020, 06:37:25 AM
He did take too long to condemn it, and it was because he thought it would be politically advantageous. A drop in the bucket compared to the evil Trump inflicts on the country on a regular basis but it is a reminder that Biden is just another pandering politician at heart.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 01, 2020, 06:40:33 AM
I wish you would use your own words to form your arguments and stop posting these dumb memes. They're really annoying.
Take this as an opportunity to think about your constant reposting of that one photo of Trump. At least Tom uses multiple images, and keeps them roughly up to date.

And Biden has never been in favor of rioting.
I dunno, he's been pretty happy to talk to BLM'ers, proudly announcing that he would totally, definitely not use them for political gain, and that his support for them is purely based in a heartfelt feeling of racial justice. As BLM's support is now plummeting, Joe will have to make some difficult decisions about who to side with. Or maybe it'll stop plummeting and JB will enjoy a free ride on the subject. We'll see.

In other news, President Record Player is back at it again. This time, COVID has taken this year, just since the outbreak... has taken more than 100 year. Look! Here's— The lives... It's just... you mean, think about it. More lives this year than any other year for the past hundred years!


https://v.omgomg.eu/biden_covid


I kind of hope he wins and lives long enough to make a State of the Union address. It would be delicious.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 01, 2020, 09:19:13 AM

Transcript:
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/joe-biden-pittsburgh-speech-transcript-august-31


Quote
COVID has taken this year, just since the outbreak, has taken more than 100… Look, the lives, when you think about it, more lives this year than any other year for the past 100 years. More than 180,000 lives in just six months, an average of 1,000 people dying every day in the month of August. Do you really feel safe under Donald Trump?

Yeah, he mispoke.  He got ahead of himself in his speech.
And I'm fairly certain he was referring to deaths in America, not COVID deaths.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 01, 2020, 09:35:15 AM
He has full blown dementia, and the evil Marxist cowards who could never get elected with their own wicked ideas are pushing a 'moderate' puppet. They don't care how undignified it is.

I don't understand how so much of the country is taken in by the party that is obviously evil. But I guess that's how Hitler came to power.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 01, 2020, 10:04:23 AM
He has full blown dementia, and the evil Marxist cowards who could never get elected with their own wicked ideas are pushing a 'moderate' puppet. They don't care how undignified it is.

I don't understand how so much of the country is taken in by the party that is obviously evil. But I guess that's how Hitler came to power.

Actually Hitler rose in power by using fear tactics to scapegoat the destruction of parliament on Dutch immigrants (his party did it) to give the Chancelor extra powers, then became Chancelor by blaming all the problems everyone had on minority groups (immigrants, disabled, gylsies, jews,etc..), encouraging violence against them, then promising to 'keep them safe away from us' by loading them on Trains.

He wasn't obviously evil.  Also, you just described Trump.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 01, 2020, 01:43:30 PM
He has full blown dementia, and the evil Marxist cowards who could never get elected with their own wicked ideas are pushing a 'moderate' puppet. They don't care how undignified it is.

I don't understand how so much of the country is taken in by the party that is obviously evil. But I guess that's how Hitler came to power.

Actually Hitler rose in power by using fear tactics to scapegoat the destruction of parliament on Dutch immigrants (his party did it) to give the Chancelor extra powers, then became Chancelor by blaming all the problems everyone had on minority groups (immigrants, disabled, gylsies, jews,etc..), encouraging violence against them, then promising to 'keep them safe away from us' by loading them on Trains.

He wasn't obviously evil.  Also, you just described Trump.

It's crazy how often right-wingers, while trying to paint the Left as evil, end up just describing their own side. Projection seems to be a legitimate political tool in their eyes.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 01, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
The left is evil. The left starts from the premise of theft and all other ideas flourish from there. The left is inherently wicked. Its founding premise is a crime against simple citizens.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 01, 2020, 03:13:11 PM
The left is evil. The left starts from the premise of theft and all other ideas flourish from there. The left is inherently wicked. Its founding premise is a crime against simple citizens.

TIL taxes are theft.

Hopefully Thork will realize both the left and right tax people.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 01, 2020, 03:22:39 PM
The left is evil. The left starts from the premise of theft and all other ideas flourish from there. The left is inherently wicked. Its founding premise is a crime against simple citizens.

I'm not sure you understand what 'left' means.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 01, 2020, 04:06:28 PM
Because the American public has the attention span of a house fly, they've forgotten all about Marla Maples, Trump Taj Mahal, Trump University and all the other bullshit that is his life. This has nothing to do with left or right media, his public life is decades of scandal and failure.

The trouble is that he throws so much sh*t around, it becomes difficult to keep track of it all. American or not, someone can mention something Trump said or did from merely a few weeks ago, and with all that's happened between, it seems like an eternity ago.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on September 01, 2020, 07:38:36 PM
I don't understand how so much of the country is taken in by the party that is obviously evil. But I guess that's how Hitler came to power.

Was it Biden or Trump that said Nazi's were good people?

I can't remember... which side has literal Nazi's marching on the streets to unite the... was it left or right?

And those awful Anti-Facisist liberals... yeah, I'm pretty sure I know which side Hitler would vote for.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 01, 2020, 08:06:08 PM
I'm pretty sure I know which side Hitler would vote for.

Nazi ... national socialist ... he'd vote for Bernie. Bernie also likes shouting and demanding to take money off rich Jews.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 01, 2020, 09:10:43 PM
I'm pretty sure I know which side Hitler would vote for.

Nazi ... national socialist ... he'd vote for Bernie. Bernie also likes shouting and demanding to take money off rich Jews.
You do know that Most Authoritarian governments are Right, politically, yes?  Liberals have democracy, Conservatives have dictators.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 01, 2020, 09:59:19 PM
All these partisan warriors are missing the fact that Trump was a gigantic piece of shit long before he became president. Because the American public has the attention span of a house fly, they've forgotten all about Marla Maples, Trump Taj Mahal, Trump University and all the other bullshit that is his life. This has nothing to do with left or right media, his public life is decades of scandal and failure. But some stupid catch phrases and empty, impossible promises is all it takes for dumbass people whip out their credit cards to order now. This man destroyed his family's fortune, crashed a half dozen companies into the ground while saddling all those small contractors with the cost in bankruptcy filings. American finance institutions won't go near this guy but the ignorant public is buying his ghost-written books on business. His only real success money-wise was stamping his name on cheap imported crap and selling it to dumb rednecks. Then he shot himself in the dick with his "MAGA! Made in America" routine, and destroyed that business too.

This is all true, but arguably The Apprentice was the biggest vehicle for Trump's rehabilitation. I know I've linked this article (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/01/07/how-mark-burnett-resurrected-donald-trump-as-an-icon-of-american-success) before, but I want to encourage anyone who hasn't already to read it, especially people who may not realize how heavily scripted the show was, and how deliberately it manufactured the idea that Trump was a great businessman. Before that show, everyone knew that Trump was a joke.

Take this as an opportunity to think about your constant reposting of that one photo of Trump.

That was months ago. I haven't done that since totallackey appropriated it and made it a pro-Trump image. It is now powerless as a symbol in my hands. :(
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 01, 2020, 10:47:40 PM
I'm pretty sure I know which side Hitler would vote for.

Nazi ... national socialist ... he'd vote for Bernie. Bernie also likes shouting and demanding to take money off rich Jews.
You do know that Most Authoritarian governments are Right, politically, yes?  Liberals have democracy, Conservatives have dictators.

Demonstrably false.

With the exception of the nazis who were painted as right* (they aren't right wing but we'll look at that in a second), almost all authoritarians are left wing. Of course they are left-wing, it is the left who believe in huge all powerful governments that control every aspect of their citizens lives. Other than nazi Germany who aren't actually right wing, you'll have to google to name another one.


*There was no fundemental difference between what Hitler did and what Stalin did.

Both used secret police.
Both sought to control the means of production
Hitler persecuted the Jews, Stalin persecuted the kulaks
Both were happy to kill millions
Both wanted to expand their borders via conquest
Both were dictators

So after WW2 when the allies were deciding to write history they made some important choices.
1) It wasn't the Germans ... it was the Nazis. Germans good, Nazis bad.
2) Nazis are right wing and communists are left wing. They are not to be described as like Russians. They must be the other end of the political spectrum. Couldn't be further apart in ideology ... except for doing all the exact same things, of course. Stalin would not let Nazis be painted as both bad and having similar ideology to Russians. There is no such thing as right and left wing before the late 1930s. It's the same kind of bodge that says Nazis are evil, Germans are good.
What you actually have are authoritarians and libertarians. Authoritarians are dangerous. The Democrats are dangerous. They are the party looking to restrict your freedoms and dominate every aspect of your life with big government. Yet you still want to vote for the evil party. Just like the Germans Nazis.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 01, 2020, 11:20:52 PM
Without Googling, two very obvious examples of right-wing authoritarian regimes are Spain under Franco and Italy under Mussolini. And yes, the Nazis were also right-wing. The word "socialist" being in their full name did not make their actual policies and governance socialist. I don't know what all the talk about how bad Stalin was (he certainly was very bad) or how Germans are good while Nazis are bad has to do with it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 02, 2020, 08:58:44 AM
The word "socialist" being in their full name did not make their actual policies and governance socialist.
Of course, the name makes no difference. It's their economic and social policy that does. It gets a bit overshadowed by the whole "psychotic genocidal dictatorship that waged war with most of the world" kerfuffle, but there was a lot of left wing sentiment in the kind of support they provided for their working class.

The "fun" part here is that different people use "left" and "right" to mean different things, mostly because the division is so outdated that it can't really apply to anything remotely recent.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 09, 2020, 01:38:47 AM
MSNBC says Joe Biden’s campaign “lacks the dynamism, the energy” of a presidential campaign

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=31&v=B3wSbw11zUs&feature=emb_title
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 09, 2020, 02:07:49 AM
No, he says it lacks the dynamism and energy "of campaigns that you and I have covered in the past," not "of a presidential campaign." He's comparing it to other campaigns, not declaring it unworthy of even being considered a presidential campaign. What a stupid argument.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 09, 2020, 08:00:47 AM
MSNBC says Joe Biden’s campaign “lacks the dynamism, the energy” of a presidential campaign

Yeah, so?

 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 09, 2020, 09:50:14 AM
MSNBC says Joe Biden’s campaign “lacks the dynamism, the energy” of a presidential campaign
It's really worrying if they or you think this matters.
Surely what matters is not whether he puts on a show but what he says.
If you disagree with his policies (I mean his actual ones, not the ones people like Trump claims he has) then fine.
But what does this nonsense have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 10:20:15 AM
Surely what matters is not whether he puts on a show but what he says.
He recently said a black man invented the light bulb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPcLtrNATvY

Where do you go with that? I mean let us be as generous to Biden as we can. Either

1) He deliberately lied because he feels black people have no real achievements and he wanted to hand them one
2) He honestly thinks a black man invented the light bulb because he is surrounded by liars who have been pumping his brain full of this nonsense
3) He doesn't even know what he had for breakfast, so bad is his dementia.

Now you can pick. And we'll be generous and go with your explanation. Which of those 3 do you want and how does that behaviour seem presidential?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 09, 2020, 10:45:32 AM
Surely what matters is not whether he puts on a show but what he says.
He recently said a black man invented the light bulb.
*Googles*

Well that took me about 2 minutes. He's clearly referring to Lewis Latimer:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/04/us/biden-lightbulb-black-man-trnd/index.html

Quote
As far as we know, Edison did invent the light bulb, but a Black inventor named Lewis Latimer actually made it better and more accessible.
After years of experiments and thousands of tests of various filament materials, [Edison's] longest-lasting light bulb could only last for about 15 hours before the filament burned out.
Around the same time Edison was experimenting with his bulb -- using carbonized filaments of bay wood, cedar, bamboo and other fibers -- so was Latimer.
According to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Latimer improved upon Edison's original design. Latimer created a light bulb with a more durable filament made of carbon. He sold the patent to the US Electric Co. in 1881, and a year later patented a process for efficiently manufacturing the carbon filament. He even wrote a book in 1890 on electric lighting, the first of its kind.
Because of Latimer's contributions, incandescent light bulbs became more affordable and practical, MIT says, thus transforming American culture.

So I guess the point he's making is why is Latimer not better known in which case he has a point.
It was pandering to the audience he was talking to but I'd expect that from a politician. Biden's opponents will obviously try to spin this as "the old man's lost it", but he is referring to historical truths even if he somewhat twists them. It's hardly the Goodness Gracious Me character who claims everything is Indian.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 11:08:32 AM
Yeah he’s pandering for sure.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 11:21:38 AM
So I guess the point he's making is why is Latimer not better known in which case he has a point.
Because who the hell cares who incrementally improved a light bulb once upon a time? That's like saying Henry Ford invented the car but *insert black man* invented the clutch and so clutch guy needs more recognition. Unfortunately clutch guy happens to be Professor Henry Selby Hele-Shaw who was a white guy so instantly Biden isn't interested. But why should I or anyone be interested in filament guy? Because he's black? That's racist.

It was pandering to the audience
Well you are right about that. Biden is a manipulative piece of shit from the same stable as Hilary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi. The dems should stay out of power until their current generation of old Marxists are all either dead or retired.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 11:52:32 AM
Well you are right about that. Biden is a manipulative piece of shit from the same stable as Hilary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi. The dems should stay out of power until their current generation of old Marxists are all either dead or retired.

If you think that Trump isn't at least as manipulative (he is worse), then you are deluded.  Trump has made an exceptional amount of pandering and patently false claims.  So many that his presidency has basically turned in to a 4 year gish gallop.  Also, if you think Biden is a Marxist, then you literally have no idea what Marxism is.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 09, 2020, 12:18:05 PM
Because who the hell cares who incrementally improved a light bulb once upon a time?

Can't you read? This wasn't some "incremental improvement". Let me quote a bit of that article again for you:

Quote
Latimer created a light bulb with a more durable filament made of carbon. He sold the patent to the US Electric Co. in 1881, and a year later patented a process for efficiently manufacturing the carbon filament. He even wrote a book in 1890 on electric lighting, the first of its kind.
Because of Latimer's contributions, incandescent light bulbs became more affordable and practical, MIT says, thus transforming American culture.

There' I've even bolded the most important part for you.
Henry Ford didn't invent the car by the way, from what I understand he invented the production line, but anyway your comparison is ridiculous.

Quote
But why should I or anyone be interested in filament guy?

Because of the bit I've quoted, particularly the bolded part.
So yeah, Biden was pandering to the audience he was talking to and to say Latimer invented the lightbulb is a stretch.
But your initial post implies he said it because he's confused, when a 2 minute Google shows pretty clearly what and who he was referring to.
One could argue that saying it to that particular audience was a pretty shrewd thing to do.

So which is it? Is he pandering to a crowd in a politically smart way, or is he a dementia patient? He can't be both.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 12:39:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2chrFOwf-YE&feature=youtu.be&t=1500

Less than 5 mins later ... to paraphrase Biden ... why in God's name don't we tell the truth about mixed race families? They are very rare. Less than 2% of the US. The man is a sinister hypocrite.

He is trying to paint white Americans as guilty of an original sin. Being born white and so somehow guilty of slavery. Despite no one alive having anything to do with slavery. Like the media he's constantly painting black people as heroes and victims and white people as evil greedy oppressors. White Americans need to stand up for themselves.

Systemic racism is something that Western Marxists have developed over time, its rooted in critical theory (CT) , specifically the subset critical race theory (CRT). It takes the classical Marxist oppressor-oppressed dialectic conflict and turns it onto race. Race was not a major aspect of Marxist theory in the previous century because it was thought to be simply a type of class conflict. The new age of Marxists that follow CT actually believe that the oppressor is creating a system of oppression from which he can benefit, thus when they say "white supremacy" they mean the oppressor is maintaining the system of oppression for his own benefit. This is why you don't have to actually be racist to be a racist supremacist, because systemic racism and racism are fundamentally different things. Basically,  you are racist if you don't want to destroy the system so that's why they are destroying the system: to prove that they are not. There's a lot more to write about this, but to keep it short: anyone who uses language like "systemic racism" is engaging you in open warfare, they are your enemy, they want you dead.

If you are white and you are voting Democrat, your have learning difficulties. Listen to what the man says ...
https://youtu.be/dcx6_2LmcG4?t=4912

He just accused you of original sin. You are white and therefore guilty of a crime. If someone accuses you of an original sin, they are saying that you are the enemy. There's no trial. There's no jury. The evidence is that you are white and therefore you are guilty. There's no redemption. No forgiveness. You are evil because you exist. Americans need to kick the Dems and their race baiting into touch in the election. We did that in the UK and both the lib dems and the Labour party are now being cleansed of these revolting ideas. You don't vote for a party that paints you as wicked. That's just stupid. And I don't think Americans are stupid. I think Trump's got this.


Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 12:46:06 PM
Do you vote for a party whose leader declares that Nazis are good people and refuses to condemn them?  This is the situation in the USA.  Neither is a great choice.

P.S. You still don't know what a Marxist is if you think there is any hint of Marxism in US politics.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 01:18:47 PM
Do you vote for a party whose leader declares that Nazis are good people and refuses to condemn them?

Who told you this? Fact check it. You are believing a lie from a man who thinks you are guilty of original sin. Surely the choice of who to vote for is simple?

Trump has a long history of condemning racism and white supremacists.

https://youtu.be/4txFXtgqK18?t=29

How much condemning does he need to do?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 09, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
Do you vote for a party whose leader declares that Nazis are good people and refuses to condemn them?

Who told you this? Fact check it. You are believing a lie from a man who thinks you are guilty of original sin. Surely the choice of who to vote for is simple?

Trump has a long history of condemning racism and white supremacists.

https://youtu.be/4txFXtgqK18?t=29

How much condemning does he need to do?
Preferably without the need for a prepared statement written by someone else.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 01:50:07 PM
Preferably without the need for a prepared statement written by someone else.
You mean a speech? Condemning nazis over and over isn't enough for you. You want him to condemn nazis in the exact way you specify or it doesn't count. So unless Trump condemns Nazis at midnight in the town of Little Rock whilst sat upon a horse on the 2nd of July in the presence of at least 3 million Mexicans, then he must endorse Nazism. 🙄
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 02:03:11 PM
Preferably without the need for a prepared statement written by someone else.
You mean a speech? Condemning nazis over and over isn't enough for you. You want him to condemn nazis in the exact way you specify or it doesn't count. So unless Trump condemns Nazis at midnight in the town of Little Rock whilst sat upon a horse on the 2nd of July in the presence of at least 3 million Mexicans, then he must endorse Nazism. 🙄

He did that after he had declared them to be good people. You will understand why I don’t think he is sincere.

This is the same person that one day encourages people to wear masks and then disparages the use the next.

It’s also hilariously out of touch that you think I agree with Biden when I have admitted he is pandering. Perhaps take a breath and read my words as written.

Or is this connected to your delusions about Marxism in America as well?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 02:07:02 PM
What are you babbling about? He waited 48 hours until he had the facts and then condemned the Neo-Nazis. What is the problem? At no point has he said nazism is good, which is what you are disingenuously accusing him of, so you can get your putrid race baiting favourites voted in instead.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 09, 2020, 02:11:44 PM
https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/

Trump didn't explicitly say, "Nazis are very fine people." Of course he didn't. But the Unite the Right rally was openly, explicitly racist. It may have been inspired initially by the removal of Confederate statues, but its participants wore their hatred on their sleeves, making that the overriding theme of the event, and one of them ended up murdering an innocent woman. This should have been an easy straightforward condemnation for Trump. One side spewed hatred; the other did not. One side murdered someone; the other did not. But he couldn't do it, not without weakly blaming "both sides" and pretendng the rally participants were anything more than hateful racists.

He waited 48 hours until he had the facts and then condemned the Neo-Nazis.

It didn't take 48 hours to figure out what had happened. He eventually condemned the Nazis only because he had been relentlessly blasted for not doing so immediately.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 02:18:12 PM
What are you babbling about? He waited 48 hours until he had the facts and then condemned the Neo-Nazis. What is the problem? At no point has he said nazism is good, which is what you are disingenuously accusing him of, so you can get your putrid race baiting favourites voted in instead.

He read a speech condemning white supremacists but then after that, when speaking candidly, he said there were “many fine people on both sides”. So every time he spoke candidly he did not condemn white supremacy and only spoke words of condemnation when they were written by someone else.

But let’s be clear. I still think any attempt to imply some sort of culpability for slavery to people living in 2020 is reprehensible. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
Less than 5 mins later ... to paraphrase Biden ... why in God's name don't we tell the truth about mixed race families? They are very rare. Less than 2% of the US. The man is a sinister hypocrite.

Mixed race relationships were illegal for explicitly racist reasons until 1967 and it took a long time for them to be portrayed without controversy.  His point about that was how far we have come as a society, how much less racist we are.  If he were solely propping up woke culture, this statement would not be made.

Quote
He just accused you of original sin. You are white and therefore guilty of a crime. If someone accuses you of an original sin, they are saying that you are the enemy. There's no trial. There's no jury. The evidence is that you are white and therefore you are guilty. There's no redemption. No forgiveness. You are evil because you exist. Americans need to kick the Dems and their race baiting into touch in the election. We did that in the UK and both the lib dems and the Labour party are now being cleansed of these revolting ideas. You don't vote for a party that paints you as wicked. That's just stupid. And I don't think Americans are stupid. I think Trump's got this.

You honestly can't assess his words dispassionately.  He said that "slavery and all it's vestiges" are the original sin of the USA, not white people.  I know American's, who were in high school in the 90s, who had no idea how central slavery was to the Civil War.  The USA, in many places, does not want to confront the mistakes of history and how they may be continuing today.  Acceptance of history is extremely important to a large part of the constituents he wants to represent, and if he can address that without inflaming tribal emotions, then it's a good thing.  I am not sure he can though.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 03:06:24 PM
I believe that the messaging is completely wrong. Blacks resent whites because of the messaging. The messaging is causing the riots and racial tensions and it is the left responsible for this. They are trying to stir up trouble so that they get elected. That's despicable.

They messaging should say "You are not victims. Stop blaming everyone else for your poor life choices. You have as much opportunity as anyone else in America. If you keep believing you are victims you will forever live like victims. Powerless and dependent on great white saviours like Biden to get you free stuff. Put your begging bowls away and seize the opportunities available to you. The highest earning sport star in America last year was a black man (LeBron James). The highest paid actor last year was a black man (Dwaine Johnson). The Highest paid comedian last year was a black man (Kevin Hart). You just had a black President. The average black family in America earns $41,000 a year. Name another country where blacks earn so much ... you may include African countries. No doors are closed to you and there is no better country on earth to grow up black. But if you keep accusing everyone else of being racist, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy as the rest of America tires of your rioting and your accusations and your complaining. - Vote Thork 2020. "

Get rid of the dems for another 5 years and force them to come back with something better. 'Trump is evil' isn't any kind of endorsement that they are any better. They would be far worse.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 03:12:25 PM
I believe that the messaging is completely wrong. Blacks resent whites because of the messaging. The messaging is causing the riots and racial tensions and it is the left responsible for this. They are trying to stir up trouble so that they get elected. That's despicable.

This is mostly just your own spicy hot take, specifically attributing assumed resentment to a singular cause; you just flat out made that up.  The unrest in the USA isn't solely the work of one ideology.

Quote
They messaging should say "You are not victims. Stop blaming everyone else for your poor life choices. You have as much opportunity as anyone else in America. If you keep believing you are victims you will forever live like victims. Powerless and dependent on great white saviours like Biden to get you free stuff. Put your begging bowls away and seize the opportunities available to you. The highest earning sport star in America last year was a black man (LeBron James). The highest paid actor last year was a black man (Dwaine Johnson). The Highest paid comedian last year was a black man (Kevin Hart). You just had a black President. The average black family in America earns $41,000 a year. Name another country where blacks earn so much ... you may include African countries. No doors are closed to you and there is no better country on earth to grow up black. But if you keep accusing everyone else of being racist, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy as the rest of America tires of your rioting and your accusations and your complaining. - Vote Thork 2020. "

You would make a shitty leader.  Standing in a position of power and using it to criticize people, then thinking your actions will inspire shows just how shitty your notions of power are.

Quote
Get rid of the dems for another 5 years and force them to come back with something better. 'Trump is evil' isn't any kind of endorsement that they are any better. They would be far worse.

You just spent your last however many points talking about their ideas that have nothing to do with Trump, then make it about Trump.  You have no idea what's going on apparently.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 09, 2020, 04:03:03 PM
Thork does not understand the poverty cycle.
Or percentages.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 04:44:23 PM
Thork does not understand the poverty cycle.
Or percentages.
Sure I do. I saw a video on that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlR7dI1XvvM

I filed it in the same part of my brain as the gender wage gap and dragons.

You would make a shitty leader.  Standing in a position of power and using it to criticize people, then thinking your actions will inspire shows just how shitty your notions of power are.
It's a damn site better than telling blacks that people who aren't harming them, are harming them.

You just spent your last however many points talking about their ideas that have nothing to do with Trump, then make it about Trump.  You have no idea what's going on apparently.
Trump has been in power for 5 years. What has he done? Not said, ... done. Where is the great harm? He keeps the US ticking along. It's the dems that want to pull America down and start again. They are the ones encouraging violence. They are the ones in all the corporate pockets. The darlings of Hollywood, Google and any other massively powerful piece of shit that needs its wings clipped. You are supporting the Empire ... the Dark side. Help them Obi-Trump-Kneobi, you're their only hope.

A vote for Biden is a vote for revolution. What a stupid thing to vote for in the world's most prosperous nation.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 09, 2020, 04:54:31 PM
Trump has not even been in power for 4 years. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 05:03:25 PM
TIL that Thork thinks tax cuts for the rich isn't being in the pocket of corporations.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 09, 2020, 05:08:13 PM
Trump has been in power for 5 years.

January 2017 to Sep 2020 = 3 years and 8 months, not five years...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 06:05:25 PM
TIL that Thork thinks tax cuts for the rich isn't being in the pocket of corporations.
The rich pay the most tax. By definition any tax cut benefits the rich. Why don't you understand these very basic economic principals? You keep tripping on them. The top 20% of earners in the USA pay 95% of the tax. Of course any tax cut benefits the rich the most. They pay all the tax.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/omb-top-20-pay-95-of-taxes-middle-class-single-digits

But cutting taxes simulates the economy providing jobs and boosting pay and can actually increase tax revenue.

Have you never heard of the Laffer curve? Its economics for kids.

(https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/laffer-curve-2018.png.webp)

Trump has been in power for 5 years.

January 2017 to Sep 2020 = 3 years and 8 months, not five years...
Yeah, we have 5 year terms here in the UK and Trump has nearly done a full term. I dropped an oopsie. Please excuse my faux pas. I meant 4 years.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 06:18:56 PM
Cutting taxes only stimulates the economy if the corporation receiving the tax cut reinvests the savings. Theory is different than practice. I would think that you would understand that considering how deranged you are about socialism.

According to the congressional budget office, tax cuts to corporations caused a loss of jobs in those entities, even while jobs were increasing generally. They also found that tax cuts to the middle and lower classes were more effective at job creation than cuts to the upper class.

Guess what was more effective at driving job creation than tax cuts?

This fact drives conservatives mental: Extending unemployment benefits

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 09, 2020, 10:11:52 PM
I would think that you would understand that considering how deranged you are about socialism.

Either you are stupid, ignorant or a psychopath. I still haven't figured it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tZ79ep4S3o&feature=emb_logo

Trust me to pick a clip where the guy has a rant about the globe at the end. FML.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 09, 2020, 11:38:17 PM
I would think that you would understand that considering how deranged you are about socialism.

Either you are stupid, ignorant or a psychopath. I still haven't figured it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tZ79ep4S3o&feature=emb_logo

Trust me to pick a clip where the guy has a rant about the globe at the end. FML.

Oh that’s sweet. You totally didn’t understand a simple sentence. Once more. Theory is different than practice.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 10, 2020, 12:30:09 AM
How much condemning does he need to do?
(https://i0.wp.com/stonetoss.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/trump-comic-2.png) (http://stonetoss.com/comic/sure-thing/)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 10, 2020, 01:44:44 AM
(dumb alt-right comic)

It's not a question of how much disavowing he does, or how many disavowals he makes. His initial response is what was criticized, and nothing he said after the fact changed what his initial response was.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 10, 2020, 05:56:51 AM
I would think that you would understand that considering how deranged you are about socialism.

Either you are stupid, ignorant or a psychopath. I still haven't figured it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tZ79ep4S3o&feature=emb_logo

Trust me to pick a clip where the guy has a rant about the globe at the end. FML.
Its cute how you think socialism is the same as authoritarian dictators.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 06:41:16 AM
Also, if you think Biden is a Marxist, then you literally have no idea what Marxism is.

Biden is whatever the goons behind him want him to be. Also, Thork is right. The disease of collectivism must be rooted out and destroyed with extreme prejudice.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 06:56:38 AM
Also, if you think Biden is a Marxist, then you literally have no idea what Marxism is.

Biden is whatever the goons behind him want him to be. Also, Thork is right. The disease of collectivism must be rooted out and destroyed with extreme prejudice.

Society is based on some degree of collectivism, so square that circle.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 07:19:15 AM
Society is based on some degree of collectivism

Yes, and cars have four wheels. I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your usual nonsense and non-starter arguments out of this very nice thread.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 07:26:01 AM
Society is based on some degree of collectivism

Yes, and cars have four wheels. I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your usual nonsense and non-starter arguments out of this very nice thread.

Sorry you think it’s nonsense, but no I won’t go away. You throw strongman hyperbole out like that and it deserves to be challenged. Any ideology that is out of balance isn’t good. No great insight there. That includes the extremist anti-collectivism you just expressed. Maybe you just wanted to sound “strong”? You tell me. What are you talking about when you say, “The disease of collectivism must be rooted out and destroyed with extreme prejudice”. How do you destroy an idea?  Do you want to destroy the people who spread collectivist ideas? That’s what your rhetoric strongly implies.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 07:35:44 AM
Sorry you think it’s nonsense, but no I won’t go away.

And I'm sorry you apparently can't infer the specific brand of collectivism I'm referring to.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 07:39:09 AM
Sorry you think it’s nonsense, but no I won’t go away.

And I'm sorry you apparently can't infer the specific brand of collectivism I'm referring to.

Why would I let you get away with lazily communicating your desire to destroy things?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 07:55:40 AM
Sorry you think it’s nonsense, but no I won’t go away.

And I'm sorry you apparently can't infer the specific brand of collectivism I'm referring to.

Why would I let you get away with lazily communicating your desire to destroy things?

The only thing you did is show you can't follow a discussion. If you wanted to get me you should have posted something else entirely.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 08:01:58 AM
There isn’t much to get. You’re just behaving like another “hurr durr the other side is evil” reductionist.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 08:36:02 AM
Collectivism is fine when applied to people who require help in society. A great example being children. They tend to be shit at most jobs and so we don't make them work any more. This means children don't have any money and it isn't their fault they don't earn any money. They can't realistically earn money. And everyone was at some point a child. So it seems entirely reasonable that everyone should get a free socialised education as a child, and you can start putting back into the system once you are old enough and repay society's investment in you. The same could be said of healthcare and dental for children. They need it, and its not their fault if they have terrible parents who can't earn a living or are dead or whatever. No question, socialism for kids is a great idea.

But socialism for adults is abhorrent. The world does not owe you a living. You had your childhood. Now its time to grow up and stand on your own two feet. Buy health insurance. Get a job. I don't care if your gangrenous foot drops off. Its not my problem. You're an adult. Look after yourself. I don't want to look after you. Stop demanding the government steals my money to make up for your shortcomings.  >o<

Now, back to Biden and why only a pathetic sponge would vote for him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 10:54:09 AM
Yeah sorry, I don’t want anyone to live in a world where medical bankruptcy is possible.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 10, 2020, 10:57:50 AM
(dumb alt-right comic)
nazi*

It's not a question of how much disavowing he does, or how many disavowals he makes. His initial response is what was criticized, and nothing he said after the fact changed what his initial response was.
Of course, it's never the question that was expressly asked. If Trump is asked to disavow racism, and then disavows it, then obviously that's not good enough. He should have done something else, something he hasn't done.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 11:03:30 AM
You understand that when someone disavows racism but then undermines his own comments by saying many of them a fine people, it’s good grounds to think he isn’t sincere?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 10, 2020, 11:23:45 AM
You understand that when someone disavows racism but then undermines his own comments by saying many of them a fine people, it’s good grounds to think he isn’t sincere?
Yes, and if you want to argue that he's done it insincerely, I have no issue with that.

What annoys me is people repeatedly demanding that he stands on a pedestal and says "racism bad", until he eventually caves in and says exactly that. Then the narrative shifts to "okay so he did say it but we didn't actually want him to say it, not like that".

If you think the man's a racist, then demanding that he says otherwise won't change anything. You'd practically be asking him to lie, and you're pretty much guaranteed to be unhappy with any response he makes.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 11:49:10 AM
Yeah sorry, I don’t want anyone to live in a world where medical bankruptcy is possible.

And I don't want to live in world where you never exercise, smoke 20 cigarettes a day, drink 6 litres of coke and have take away meals three times a day until you eat yourself up to the weight of a small family hatchback, and then have you pass me a share of your medical bills. BUY INSURANCE, YOU FAT BASTARD!  >o<
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 11:54:05 AM
That’s just throwing the baby out with the bath water. When you see that the cost of insurance plus taxes in the US is about par with taxes in Canada, there isn’t a strong economical argument for this. Not sure what taxation is like in the UK compared to North America.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 10, 2020, 12:01:30 PM
And I don't want to live in world where you never exercise, smoke 20 cigarettes a day, drink 6 litres of coke and have take away meals three times a day until you eat yourself up to the weight of a small family hatchback, and then have you pass me a share of your medical bills.

... yet the income tax, excise duty, and VAT paid by the fat b*stard still goes to providing ambulance, hospital and similar for you should you happen to get sick or fall victim to assault, car accident or similar.

I take it you don't take out any form of insurance, then, on principle? No home or contents insurance, no motor insurance, health insurance, etc. ...?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 12:09:03 PM
But socialism for adults is abhorrent. The world does not owe you a living. You had your childhood. Now its time to grow up and stand on your own two feet. Buy health insurance. Get a job. I don't care if your gangrenous foot drops off. Its not my problem. You're an adult. Look after yourself. I don't want to look after you. Stop demanding the government steals my money to make up for your shortcomings.  >o<
Right. I agree with you to an extent, although as always you've phrased things in a particularly Thorky way.
But there is no doubt that privilege exists. Not "white privilege", but in general.
The video you posted says Bob teleported across the river, implying he didn't have to do anything. That's obviously bollox.
I had to work hard to get my degree and career which has enabled me to buy quite a nice house. It wasn't just given to me.

But, and we've had this conversation before, I recognise that I had advantages from growing up in a stable home with 2 parents and while we weren't rolling in money we were comfortably off.
Dad made some investments for me which helped with the deposit on my first place and I'm old enough that I was able to scramble on the property ladder before the bottom rung went out of reach and that enabled me to take the step up to the place I have now. Kids starting out now have no chance.

You gave some stats about how much black people earn in the US, I had a look and while you're right, that's only 2/3rds of what white people earn. Boo! Racism! Right?
Well no, because Asians in the US earn more than whites, on average. Because they have a real culture of working hard and there's lots of family pressure for them to succeed.
The issue for black people in the US is historic racism means that, on average, their starting point is lower. So while in theory the opportunities for them are the same as for anyone, in practice it's not as easy for them to climb the ladder, they have further to climb, statistically speaking.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 12:20:06 PM
So while in theory the opportunities for them are the same as for anyone, in practice it's not as easy for them to climb the ladder, they have further to climb, statistically speaking.
Well boohoo. 😭

My father abandoned my family when I was 14 and he was dead by the time I was 21. My family was not well off (my mother was an air hostess) and no fairy godmother gave me a wedge of cash. I started, by your metrics, in a far worse position than you did. But because I'm white you don't give a shit about balancing that inequality. In fact you want to take what I have earned and potentially give it to the children of wealthy black folks who couldn't be bothered to work. Giving advantages to any race is a rotten policy and it is why the dems need to die. Come back with a policy for all Americans. Not just the brown and black ones.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 12:29:57 PM
So while in theory the opportunities for them are the same as for anyone, in practice it's not as easy for them to climb the ladder, they have further to climb, statistically speaking.
Well boohoo. 😭

My father abandoned my family when I was 14 and he was dead by the time I was 21. My family was not well off (my mother was an air hostess) and no fairy godmother gave me a wedge of cash. I started, by your metrics, in a far worse position than you did. But because I'm white you don't give a shit about balancing that inequality. In fact you want to take what I have earned and potentially give it to the children of wealthy black folks who couldn't be bothered to work. Giving advantages to any race is a rotten policy and it is why the dems need to die. Come back with a policy for all Americans. Not just the brown and black ones.

Classic mistake of thinking anecdotes is the singular of data.

Back to your abhorrence of socialism, I’m wondering if you also abhor socialized law enforcement, fire department and civil legal system?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 12:39:09 PM
Back to your abhorrence of socialism, I’m wondering if you also abhor socialized law enforcement, fire department and civil legal system?

No, yes, no ... in that order. Get you own fire insurance. It should be like car insurance ... mandatory with a building.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_insurance_mark

You can also socialise the military. And that's it. Don't ask me for a penny more.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 01:24:52 PM
My father abandoned my family when I was 14 and he was dead by the time I was 21.
So? In the Covid thread you weren't interested when I started talking anecdotally about some people's experiences of getting the disease, why do you think I'd care about your anecdotes?
I'm interested in data and statistics.

Quote
I started, by your metrics, in a far worse position than you did. But because I'm white you don't give a shit about balancing that inequality. In fact you want to take what I have earned and potentially give it to the children of wealthy black folks who couldn't be bothered to work.

I literally have no idea how you got any of that from what I said. I simply think getting people from disadvantaged homes more help is a good thing.
I don't care what race they are. Statistically, any policy in the US which helps disadvantaged people would happen to help more black people.
Not because they're black but because black families tend to be poorer. And that's because of all kinds of historic racism which we can't fix now.
What we can do is try and help poorer people, no matter their race, so that their hard work is more likely to yield a good outcome.

I don't believe in positive discrimination - that is an oxymoron, discrimination is discrimination. I don't believe in "quotas". That's some racist bullshit right there.
I don't want to go for a job and not get it because the other guy is black and they have some quota to fill - I doubt he'd want that either.
Give me a job on merit, or give him it on merit depending on who is better.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 01:53:48 PM
Why do you believe that all poor people need is a little help? They are poor because they are stupid, or lazy, or drug addicts. You just told me you don't care about individual cases. Well the vast majority of the unemployed are unemployed because they choose to be ... so fuck 'em.

An intersting article finishes with the conclusion
Quote from: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-choosiness-of-the-unemployed-academic-evidence-on-voluntary-unemployment-in-the-uk/
So all of my four research projects delivered findings consistent with the view that many unemployed people prefer living on benefits to undertaking jobs which would increase their income, but which they consider unattractive. This has not emerged to anything like the same extent before in social policy empirical literature, and this, I think, is because the vast majority of authors are left-of-centre.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 02:10:39 PM
Why do you believe that all poor people need is a little help? They are poor because they are stupid, or lazy, or drug addicts.

Apparently you can be stupid and not poor.  You can also be smart and not rich.  You can also work hard and be poor.  It's astounding how myopic your view of the world is.

Quote
An intersting article finishes with the conclusion
Quote from: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-choosiness-of-the-unemployed-academic-evidence-on-voluntary-unemployment-in-the-uk/
So all of my four research projects delivered findings consistent with the view that many unemployed people prefer living on benefits to undertaking jobs which would increase their income, but which they consider unattractive. This has not emerged to anything like the same extent before in social policy empirical literature, and this, I think, is because the vast majority of authors are left-of-centre.

There is also evidence that if you provide social assistance that it's effective at reducing unemployment.  This blogger is addressing other conclusions without rebutting the data, but simply by positing an opinion about them.  Not very convincing.

No, yes, no ... in that order. Get you own fire insurance. It should be like car insurance ... mandatory with a building.

So if someone's house burns down, taking yours with it, because there is no fire department, you are cool with that?  Why are you ok with law enforcement being publicly funded?  You aren't committing crimes, so it's money from your pocket for no reason, and you clearly aren't concerned with property protection or you would be in favor of a fire department.  Just get a gun and defend yourself.  It would save you money.  Why are you in favor of a civic legal system?  Shouldn't you want the government to stay out of your business rather than having the ability to impose their beliefs and values on you?

Quote
You can also socialise the military. And that's it. Don't ask me for a penny more.

Why are you socializing the military?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
So if someone's house burns down, taking yours with it, because there is no fire department, you are cool with that?
I'm expecting them to do a 5 year stretch for not buying the mandatory fire cover and I'm insured anyway so whatever.

Why are you ok with law enforcement being publicly funded?
Because I want my stuff protected from ruffians. Everyone requires security from crime so crime prevention gets socialised. You can't have people hiring private armies. That's a recipe for mafias and warlords.

Why are you in favor of a civic legal system?
A fundamental tenant of western civilisation is that you have the right to council. This prevents people with lots of money just destroying poor people with baseless accusations in the courts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_counsel
You don't have the right to sit on your backside all day getting paid for that out of my tax contributions. I have said this in about 10 ways now. Why are you so hard of learning? Welfare is abhorrent. I don't like welfare. Most of our money goes on welfare. It's a waste. I want to stop the welfare. What has legal representation or police cover got to do with welfare?


Why are you socializing the military?
See private armies above. Also without a large national army, the vikings would come and take all our stuff again. That's why we formed England in the first place, rather than having about 25 separate kingdoms.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 02:35:07 PM
So if someone's house burns down, taking yours with it, because there is no fire department, you are cool with that?
I'm expecting them to do a 5 year stretch for not buying the mandatory fire cover and I'm insured anyway so whatever.

Putting aside that you obviously aren't considering how incredibly traumatic and disruptive having your house burn down would be, have you considered that it could kill you as well?

Quote
Why are you ok with law enforcement being publicly funded?
Because I want my stuff protected from ruffians. Everyone requires security from crime so crime prevention gets socialised. You can't have people hiring private armies. That's a recipe for mafias and warlords.

But gun ownership is apparently the solution to civil disorder.  You need to talk to the NRA.  Now, why do you want people to pay to protect your property from people, but not fires?  How about you stay consistent in your beliefs or try to explain the massive discrepancy.

Quote
A fundamental tenant of western civilisation is that you have the right to council. This prevents people with lots of money just destroying poor people with baseless accusations in the courts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_counsel
You don't have the right to sit on your backside all day getting paid for that out of my tax contributions. I have said this in about 10 ways now. Why are you so hard of learning? Welfare is abhorrent. I don't like welfare. Most of our money goes on welfare. It's a waste. I want to stop the welfare. What has legal representation or police cover got to do with welfare?

A civil court is a way of redistributing wealth for injustices decided by the government.  That is a form of socialism, which you called evil.  You have also said numerous times that you want the government to stay out of your life, but now suddenly it's fine.  You need to go rethink your rhetoric. 

Quote
See private armies above. Also without a large national army, the vikings would come and take all our stuff again. That's why we formed England in the first place, rather than having about 25 separate kingdoms.

Cool, you like some forms of collectivism.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 02:42:26 PM
Putting aside that you obviously aren't considering how incredibly traumatic and disruptive having your house burn down would be, have you considered that it could kill you as well?
That's not how it worked. Why don't you ever read the links provided to you? My fire company would just put out my neighbours fire and invoice them. That's how it worked with the uninsured.

But gun ownership is apparently the solution to civil disorder.  You need to talk to the NRA.  Now, why do you want people to pay to protect your property from people, but not fires?  How about you stay consistent in your beliefs or try to explain the massive discrepancy.
Learn how fire insurance worked.


A civil court is a way of redistributing wealth for injustices decided by the government.  That is a form of socialism, which you called evil.  You have also said numerous times that you want the government to stay out of your life, but now suddenly it's fine.  You need to go rethink your rhetoric. 
Court is not government. Court is the legal system. We need law and order ... oh wait, I'm talking to a leftist.  ::) We don't need the unemployed.

Cool, you like some forms of collectivism.
I already said that 2 pages ago. What I don't like is the welfare state.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 03:00:04 PM
Why do you believe that all poor people need is a little help? They are poor because they are stupid, or lazy, or drug addicts.
No, they aren't. Stop reading the Daily Mail and watching Benefits Street.

Yes, some people are lazy and prefer to sit on their arses. I don't think that should be encouraged. And I don't think it's as common as some people make out.

As a general principle I'd suggest everyone deserves the same opportunities in life. In practise that's never going to happen. I was never going to go to Eton and it's no coincidence that people who do tend to get further in life. They're not smarter than me, they don't work harder. They just start with a massive advantage over me.

It's impossible to completely level the playing field, but any policies which help to do that are a good thing.

And this is nothing to do with employment. You can be employed in this country and struggling. I know I just told you to stop reading the Daily Mail but it's the first article I found. Basically, people born into wealthy families tend to earn more than people who weren't:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6261249/Children-wealthy-parents-successful-gifted-kids-born-low-income-families.html
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 03:06:14 PM
That's not how it worked. Why don't you ever read the links provided to you? My fire company would just put out my neighbours fire and invoice them. That's how it worked with the uninsured.

How does a private service get to provide their service without the consent of the person receiving the services?  Sounds like a really dumb version of socialism.

Quote
Learn how fire insurance worked.

Fire insurance with a public service is different than with a private service.


Quote
Court is not government. Court is the legal system. We need law and order ... oh wait, I'm talking to a leftist.  ::) We don't need the unemployed.

Ok, think back to grade school and please tell me the three different branches of government.  (Answer below)

Legislative, executive and JUDICIAL

Quote
I already said that 2 pages ago. What I don't like is the welfare state.

Your beliefs aren't confined to this thread and I am not behaving as if they are.  What a silly thing to think.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 03:17:15 PM
Basically, people born into wealthy families tend to earn more than people who weren't:
Something liberals will never tell you. Consider one set of parents. Mother is a lawyer and the father a doctor. What are the odds they will have smart kids?
Now consider the offspring of 2 chavs on benefits. How smart will their kids be? An uncomfortable truth is that intelligence is a genetic trait.

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ
Twin studies of adult individuals have found a heritability of IQ between 57% and 73%[6] with the most recent studies showing heritability for IQ as high as 80%[7] IQ goes from being weakly correlated with genetics, for children, to being strongly correlated with genetics for late teens and adults.

Of course children of wealthy families tend to earn more ... they tend to be smarter!

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 03:27:08 PM
Of course children of wealthy families tend to earn more ... they tend to be smarter!

Literally the first paragraph of the article I pointed you at:

Quote
Rich children of average intelligence are more likely to succeed in life than brilliant people born into poor families, according to a new genetic study that focuses on the intersection of genes and economics.

Later down the same article:

Quote
Researchers found that intellectual gifts are fairly evenly distributed among the rich and poor, however eventual success is heavily weighted in favour of the rich

Hardly from the liberal lefty media, it's from the Daily fucking Mail!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 03:45:37 PM
I don't read the Daily Mail. I don't believe the crap they put in there. Do you have a scientific source like the one I linked you? One with studies?


I was also given some good advice a few years ago by a businessman. He told me ... you will likely be the average of your friends. If all your friends are drop outs and junkies, you'll be one too. If your friends are all top bankers and business leaders, guess what you will be doing for a living.

So it is of no surprise to me that an average IQ rich kid does better than a brilliant poor kid ... they will network better. But also they are much more likely to be smarter on average. The brilliant poor child is as rare as hen's teeth.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 10, 2020, 04:27:49 PM
I don't read the Daily Mail. I don't believe the crap they put in there.

Why not? All they do is lift stories from news agency websites, and repackage news from other sites, so if anything is wrong, you're blaming the messenger, not the writer.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 04:36:02 PM
So it is of no surprise to me that an average IQ rich kid does better than a brilliant poor kid ... they will network better.
Right. So that's another advantage of being rich - your will tend to mix with other rich people and that confers another advantage.
But also rich parents being able to afford tutors or private education can help average kids to perform better.

And all the Daily Mail are doing is quoting a study. You can find it yourself, if you're too lazy then that's not my problem.

Quote
But also they are much more likely to be smarter on average. The brilliant poor child is as rare as hen's teeth.
Evidence?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 04:49:29 PM
Thork values links to a blog that links to a study more than a newspaper that links to a study. Wow.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 07:27:58 PM
Yeah sorry, I don’t want anyone to live in a world where medical bankruptcy is possible.

And I don't want to live in world where you never exercise, smoke 20 cigarettes a day, drink 6 litres of coke and have take away meals three times a day until you eat yourself up to the weight of a small family hatchback, and then have you pass me a share of your medical bills. BUY INSURANCE, YOU FAT BASTARD!  >o<

In America you can walk into any given Walmart and see a bunch of fat poor people in sweatpants loading their carts with garbage. If they weren’t such idiots I’d have more sympathy for them. The culture here makes it impossible to sustain a nationwide universal healthcare system.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 08:05:23 PM
I went into a Walmart many years ago whilst on holiday because I wanted to see what real Americans looked like. You wouldn't believe how big they are in real life.  😱
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Fortuna on September 10, 2020, 09:20:25 PM
I went into a Walmart many years ago whilst on holiday because I wanted to see what real Americans looked like. You wouldn't believe how big they are in real life.  😱

Obesity and general cultural degeneracy have become normal here to the point that you don’t notice it on a day-to-day basis. It was only when I started watching videos of Japanese and Chinese city life that it hit me how disgusting American society has become. People here really are rude, fat, and narcissistic to a higher degree than most other developed countries. But that’s probably just the skinny privilege talking.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on September 10, 2020, 09:29:07 PM
I went into a Walmart many years ago whilst on holiday because I wanted to see what real Americans looked like. You wouldn't believe how big they are in real life.  😱
Have you been to Florida?
Holy shit there are some fat people there.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 09:51:33 PM
I went into a Walmart many years ago whilst on holiday because I wanted to see what real Americans looked like. You wouldn't believe how big they are in real life.  😱
Have you been to Florida?
Holy shit there are some fat people there.

It was a Florida Walmart. And yes, they are fat as fuck in Florida. And Rama thinks sharing medical bills with these land whales is a good idea. No, harpooning them and using their blubber for lamp oil is a good idea. 🤬
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 09:53:52 PM
Maybe regular access to doctor’s would be a net benefit to public health hmm...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 10, 2020, 09:56:42 PM
I don't give a fuck about these people.

(https://backpackerlee.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/top5americanfat.jpg?w=1200)

This guy didn't share his pies with me. I don't want to share my medical insurance contributions with him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 10, 2020, 09:57:56 PM
I don't give a fuck about these people.

This guy didn't share his pies with me. I don't want to share my medical insurance contributions with him.

You don’t give a fuck about anyone unless they feed your ego. Say something relevant.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 11, 2020, 05:57:31 AM
I don't give a fuck about these people.

(https://backpackerlee.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/top5americanfat.jpg?w=1200)

This guy didn't share his pies with me. I don't want to share my medical insurance contributions with him.

But you would anyway.  You do know how insurance works, right?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 11, 2020, 07:58:13 AM
But you would anyway.  You do know how insurance works, right?
Yes ... premiums are based on risk. Not on how much I earn.

He's going to be paying a lot regardless of whether he is a part time cleaner or a celebrity lawyer. I'm not.


I'm guessing you don't know how insurance works because you have a long and tedious history of not knowing very much about anything. See, we can both be rude. Doesn't really further the conversation though, does it?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 11, 2020, 09:32:58 AM
But you would anyway.  You do know how insurance works, right?
Yes ... premiums are based on risk. Not on how much I earn.

He's going to be paying a lot regardless of whether he is a part time cleaner or a celebrity lawyer. I'm not.


I'm guessing you don't know how insurance works because you have a long and tedious history of not knowing very much about anything. See, we can both be rude. Doesn't really further the conversation though, does it?

No, I meant your premiums go to pay his medical bills.  You said you didn't want that but regardless, you will.  Unless you have different insurance companies, of course.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 11, 2020, 11:22:26 AM
But you would anyway.  You do know how insurance works, right?
Yes ... premiums are based on risk. Not on how much I earn.

He's going to be paying a lot regardless of whether he is a part time cleaner or a celebrity lawyer. I'm not.


I'm guessing you don't know how insurance works because you have a long and tedious history of not knowing very much about anything. See, we can both be rude. Doesn't really further the conversation though, does it?

No, I meant your premiums go to pay his medical bills.  You said you didn't want that but regardless, you will.  Unless you have different insurance companies, of course.

No, but you can google why yourself. I just stated why and it went right over your head.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 11, 2020, 11:40:01 AM
Maybe regular access to doctor’s would be a net benefit to public health hmm...
Doctors would help, I'm sure, but the real issue is food standards and lack of public awareness. All the unhealthy crap is bigger and cheaper in America, and the healthy options are pictured as weird stuff for hipsters.

Just another case of "It's expensive to be poor"
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 11, 2020, 02:56:46 PM
Maybe regular access to doctor’s would be a net benefit to public health hmm...
Doctors would help, I'm sure, but the real issue is food standards and lack of public awareness. All the unhealthy crap is bigger and cheaper in America, and the healthy options are pictured as weird stuff for hipsters.

Just another case of "It's expensive to be poor"

It's more than that. Advertising is a form of mind control and we're exposed to it fairly constantly throughout the day, in many different forms, and most of it is for stuff that's bad for us. Couple that with the fact that it really is prohibitively expensive for a lot of people in this country to truly live a healthy lifestyle (compare the healthiness of food available at a high end store like Whole Foods to that at a discount store like Sav-a-Lot, or even the prices between the healthier food vs the unhealthier food at an Acme to see my point) and it's no wonder we're a country of fat slobs. Society is to blame!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 11, 2020, 03:30:10 PM
Society is to blame!

Well that's easy. Just blame society. No one should ever take any personal responsibility. Oh, you murdered a man because you are from a broken home and have rage issues? Its fine. Society did that. Been sexually abusing your teenage daughter because you've been watching too much porn? That's society's fault. Stole a Bentley because you saw your favourite sports star driving one and you can't emulate your hero without one? Its OK. Society created that envy inside you.

Oh, and you are 300lbs and ate 2 cheesecakes for breakfast before your insulin shot? No worries buddy. Its not your fault. Its society!

No ... if you are fat ... you are to blame.

You're not big boned. No anthropologist ever dug up a skeleton and said "Look at the size of the bones on him."
Its not your glands. I only need to look at images from the 1950s to see how rare obesity was.
Its not genetics. Your great great grandparents weren't fat.
And its not corporations. I eat on the same planet as you do.

You are fat because you are greedy and lazy. Its always those two things. A person needs to be both. Greedy and lazy.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 11, 2020, 05:24:05 PM
It's more than that. Advertising [...]
I agree completely - you've identified the cause behind the "lack of public awareness" I hinted at. I just didn't want to go into as much detail.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 11, 2020, 08:40:41 PM
Society is to blame!

Well that's easy. Just blame society. No one should ever take any personal responsibility. Oh, you murdered a man because you are from a broken home and have rage issues? Its fine. Society did that. Been sexually abusing your teenage daughter because you've been watching too much porn? That's society's fault. Stole a Bentley because you saw your favourite sports star driving one and you can't emulate your hero without one? Its OK. Society created that envy inside you.

Oh, and you are 300lbs and ate 2 cheesecakes for breakfast before your insulin shot? No worries buddy. Its not your fault. Its society!

No ... if you are fat ... you are to blame.

You're not big boned. No anthropologist ever dug up a skeleton and said "Look at the size of the bones on him."
Its not your glands. I only need to look at images from the 1950s to see how rare obesity was.
Its not genetics. Your great great grandparents weren't fat.
And its not corporations. I eat on the same planet as you do.

You are fat because you are greedy and lazy. Its always those two things. A person needs to be both. Greedy and lazy.

No one is surprised you didn't really address the substance of what was said, just the tag at the end that was there for lulz.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 12, 2020, 05:24:08 PM
At least he would be if the election were held today.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/politics/donald-trump-swing-state-polls-new-york-times-siena/index.html

By a landslide I tell you:

https://news.yahoo.com/yahoo-news-yougov-poll-trump-233720272.html
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 12, 2020, 05:40:08 PM
Those same outlets were claiming that Hillary had an overwhelming lead on Trump up to the day of the election. Hardly credible.

Also from Yahoo and CNN:

Yahoo Aug 4 - ELECTORAL MAP: Hillary Clinton is on track for a blowout win in November (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electoral-map-hillary-clinton-track-153640976.html)

Yahoo Oct 18 - Poll: Hillary Clinton Will Win Election (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/poll-hillary-clinton-win-election-162327502.html)

CNN Nov 1 - Key model predicts big election win for Clinton (https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/01/news/economy/hillary-clinton-win-forecast-moodys-analytics/)

"this model has correctly predicted the results of every election since 1980"

lol
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 12, 2020, 05:45:16 PM
Those same outlets were claiming that Hillary had an overwhelming lead on Trump up to the day of the election. Hardly credible.

Also from Yahoo:

Yahoo - ELECTORAL MAP: Hillary Clinton is on track for a blowout win in November (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electoral-map-hillary-clinton-track-153640976.html)

Yahoo - Poll: Hillary Clinton Will Win Election (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/poll-hillary-clinton-win-election-162327502.html)

CNN - Key model predicts big election win for Clinton (https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/01/news/economy/hillary-clinton-win-forecast-moodys-analytics/)

"this model has predicted the results of every election since 1988"

lol

They got the popular vote right. Hard to predict the fuckery that is GOP gerrymandering combined with the electoral college.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 12, 2020, 07:16:09 PM
Those same outlets were claiming that Hillary had an overwhelming lead on Trump up to the day of the election. Hardly credible.

Also from Yahoo and CNN:

Yahoo Aug 4 - ELECTORAL MAP: Hillary Clinton is on track for a blowout win in November (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electoral-map-hillary-clinton-track-153640976.html)

Yahoo Oct 18 - Poll: Hillary Clinton Will Win Election (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/poll-hillary-clinton-win-election-162327502.html)

CNN Nov 1 - Key model predicts big election win for Clinton (https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/01/news/economy/hillary-clinton-win-forecast-moodys-analytics/)

"this model has correctly predicted the results of every election since 1980"

lol

You know Tom... Trump did say the Election was rigged..... Maybe he was right?  It was rigged to get him to win.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 16, 2020, 12:44:12 AM
Joe Biden gave some good advice once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HHqcr43qr0&ab_channel=KCCI
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 16, 2020, 10:05:03 AM
Fox News reckon that ABC "ambushed" Trump by including regular American voters in the audience for his "town hall" ....

Gee, how unfair. Having to answer questions from real people.

"Herd Mentality". Huh.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 16, 2020, 10:17:38 AM
It was a townhall for undecided voters... None of them were anyone’s voters.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 16, 2020, 10:47:43 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 17, 2020, 04:28:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Everything you just wrote makes no sense in context of the article.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 17, 2020, 06:53:17 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Everything you just wrote makes no sense in context of the article.

Yeah, reading comprehension is hard. Tell me which bits you are struggling with and I will hold your hand through it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 17, 2020, 09:26:19 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Everything you just wrote makes no sense in context of the article.

Yeah, reading comprehension is hard. Tell me which bits you are struggling with and I will hold your hand through it.
The article was about Biden, not Pelosi.  Pelosi is the speaker of the house.  She has little impact on foreign policy.  Her death would do nothing.

Also, y'all wanted trade deals with America so if you want us to leave the UK alone, then enjoy having no trade deals.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 17, 2020, 09:37:27 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Everything you just wrote makes no sense in context of the article.

Yeah, reading comprehension is hard. Tell me which bits you are struggling with and I will hold your hand through it.
The article was about Biden, not Pelosi.  Pelosi is the speaker of the house.  She has little impact on foreign policy.  Her death would do nothing.

Also, y'all wanted trade deals with America so if you want us to leave the UK alone, then enjoy having no trade deals.

Why don't you read the article rather than just the headline?

Quote from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571
But US Speaker Nancy Pelosi said there was "no chance" of a UK-US trade deal getting through the US Congress if the UK violated international agreements, undermining the Good Friday Agreement.

This is a bit rich coming from the US who have gone back on the Paris Climate agreement, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the UN human rights council, UNESCO, and are threatening to pull out of the WTO, NATO and the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty. But oh no, if Britain pull out of a bad deal with the EU, there will be hell to pay. 🙄

Get bent, America. 😤
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 17, 2020, 09:41:09 AM
What a fantastic trade deal partner our overlords chose for us, eh, Thork? Are you missing the Bruxellois elite yet?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 17, 2020, 09:52:55 AM
Are you sober now? Yesterday you were hanging around AR with piss stained pants shouting at the pigeons.

It shows in the UK, we need a Trump win. Voting Democrat will irreparably harm the special relationship. The Democrats aren't interested in fostering good relations. They are just out to pick up woke points off black people and lesbians. It's a different kind of politics and we'll find ourselves diverging in policy more and more if the dems get in. But with Trump, we're actually pretty aligned right now. We want the same things. More jobs, better manufacturing, less China and less war. We also both want to nail the EU's scrotum to the floor so they can't swing their bollocks about on the world stage.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 17, 2020, 10:11:43 AM
Are you sober now? Yesterday you were hanging around AR with piss stained pants shouting at the pigeons.
Thork, I'm going to ask you one last time: keep the personal attacks out of the upper.

It shows in the UK, we need a Trump win.
What a dire set of circumstances.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 17, 2020, 01:48:15 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571

Th>o<rking democrats!
What a truly awful party. Hurry up and die Pelosi. The UK is none of your business.
Everything you just wrote makes no sense in context of the article.

Yeah, reading comprehension is hard. Tell me which bits you are struggling with and I will hold your hand through it.
The article was about Biden, not Pelosi.  Pelosi is the speaker of the house.  She has little impact on foreign policy.  Her death would do nothing.

Also, y'all wanted trade deals with America so if you want us to leave the UK alone, then enjoy having no trade deals.

Why don't you read the article rather than just the headline?

Quote from: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571
But US Speaker Nancy Pelosi said there was "no chance" of a UK-US trade deal getting through the US Congress if the UK violated international agreements, undermining the Good Friday Agreement.

This is a bit rich coming from the US who have gone back on the Paris Climate agreement, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the UN human rights council, UNESCO, and are threatening to pull out of the WTO, NATO and the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty. But oh no, if Britain pull out of a bad deal with the EU, there will be hell to pay. 🙄

Get bent, America. 😤

You do know that Trump pulled out of all those, not Congress.  Right?  No congressional approval was required.  Pelosi could do nothing.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 17, 2020, 01:49:11 PM
Are you sober now? Yesterday you were hanging around AR with piss stained pants shouting at the pigeons.

It shows in the UK, we need a Trump win. Voting Democrat will irreparably harm the special relationship. The Democrats aren't interested in fostering good relations. They are just out to pick up woke points off black people and lesbians. It's a different kind of politics and we'll find ourselves diverging in policy more and more if the dems get in. But with Trump, we're actually pretty aligned right now. We want the same things. More jobs, better manufacturing, less China and less war. We also both want to nail the EU's scrotum to the floor so they can't swing their bollocks about on the world stage.

They are interested in good relations with good partners.  The UK is on the downturn and is showing that it won't concern itself with treaties they make if they find them to be inconvenient.  You don't need a Trump win, you need BJ to hit the road; he has made things worse than May.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 23, 2020, 08:21:49 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 23, 2020, 09:07:03 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.

You mean not even Trump's party could find anything?  Oh man, all those 'experts' must be so disappointed.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 23, 2020, 10:59:30 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.

Wow what a surprise
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 24, 2020, 04:32:32 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.

Wow what a surprise
Kind of is a surprise. When your idiot son gets $millions for being on the board of an oil and gas company and by his own admission knows nothing about oil and gas but your father is Vice-President of the USA ... yeah, that is a surprise there is no conclusive proof. I might also say conclusive proof might be a high bar to leap. It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 24, 2020, 04:34:11 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.

Wow what a surprise
Kind of is a surprise. When your idiot son gets $millions for being on the board of an oil and gas company and by his own admission knows nothing about oil and gas but your father is Vice-President of the USA ... yeah, that is a surprise there is no conclusive proof. I might also say conclusive proof might be a high bar to leap. It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.

Thork has princials.  He only takes jobs he's qualified for, no matter the pay or offer.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 24, 2020, 04:35:58 PM
My father didn't threaten another nation and try to blackmail them in order to get me a job in a chocolate factory.

Also, you are looking for your next President. Why the hell aren't you concerned with principles?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 24, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Quote
It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.

I’m not defending Trump. This thread is about Biden.

If there was even the smallest sign of impropriety, you can be sure the GOP would have cried bloody murder.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 24, 2020, 05:01:24 PM
Quote
It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.

I’m not defending Trump. This thread is about Biden.

If there was even the smallest sign of impropriety, you can be sure the GOP would have cried bloody murder.

Pretty sure the GOP aren't the party that cry bloody murder every two minutes.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 24, 2020, 05:05:24 PM
Quote
It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.

I’m not defending Trump. This thread is about Biden.

If there was even the smallest sign of impropriety, you can be sure the GOP would have cried bloody murder.

Pretty sure the GOP aren't the party that cry bloody murder every two minutes.

That’s because you don’t pay attention to US politics at all. Both sides bicker incessantly, regardless of the merits of their grievance.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 24, 2020, 05:07:27 PM
When your idiot son gets $millions for being on the board of an oil and gas company and by his own admission knows nothing about oil and gas but your father is Vice-President of the USA ...

When the President of the same USA brings his adult daughter, with no political expertise or experience in public office, into the Whitehouse as an "advisor" ...

(https://i.imgur.com/S12n7co.jpg)

Honestly, virtually EVERY criticism or accusation that I see or hear made by Trumpers or Republicans toward Biden or Dems is something that some Trumper or Republican is already guilty of doing.

Trump says Biden is in cognitive decline, but can barely string sentences together.
Trump wants Biden to take a drug test, but is seen blowing bits of pills out from nose and mouth at a rally.
Trump says there will be unrest in the streets if Biden is elected, but there's ALREADY unrest under his watch.
etc
etc 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 24, 2020, 05:26:21 PM
Tom.

Tom.

I saw.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on September 24, 2020, 05:38:56 PM
My father didn't threaten another nation and try to blackmail them in order to get me a job in a chocolate factory.

Also, you are looking for your next President. Why the hell aren't you concerned with principles?

For a Trump fan to complain about principles is laughable. Trump is easily the most unscrupulous, unprincipled, and shameless president we've had since at least Andrew Jackson. He's cheated on his wives numerous times, bragged about supposedly stealing other men's girlfriends, has a long history of making lewd, demeaning, and racist remarks, regularly stiffed local contractors for the money he owed them, and bankrupted his businesses so that he could personally profit at the expense of everyone else multiple times. He pointedly refused to divest himself from his businesses so that he could continue making money off of them at taxpayer expense, and has also refused to release his tax returns so that we could see how much money he's making and from whom it's coming.

There's no doubt that Hunter Biden is an unqualified fuckwit who was hired for his name. But there's no evidence that Joe Biden encouraged or asked for his hiring, and to tie it into America's demands that Viktor Shokin be fired doesn't make any sense. The concern with Shokin was that he was stonewalling or dragging out his investigations into corruption, including the one into Burisma. If Biden was trying to protect his son, and by extension Burisma, then why would he be demanding the removal of someone who had also protected Burisma? The narrative falls apart. Shokin only started claiming that he actually totally was investigating Burisma and that's why Biden wanted him out in 2019, when he recognized that he had an ally in the Trump administration. He's obviously lying, and I'd feel comfortable making that assessment even if we didn't have plenty of documentary evidence and witness testimony (which we do) making it clear that, no, he wasn't investigating Burisma vigilantly. In any case, this is all concerning activities that took place from 2010-2012. Hunter didn't join Burisma until 2014, so he couldn't possibly have been implicated in anything Shokin was or wasn't investigating.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 24, 2020, 05:57:55 PM
Republicans found there was no conclusive proof of wrongdoing by Biden in the Ukraine.

Wow what a surprise
Kind of is a surprise. When your idiot son gets $millions for being on the board of an oil and gas company and by his own admission knows nothing about oil and gas but your father is Vice-President of the USA ... yeah, that is a surprise there is no conclusive proof. I might also say conclusive proof might be a high bar to leap. It doesn't mean you aren't defending an absolute piece of shit human who sold his country out to enrich his family.

Not really though. Cronyism is perfectly legal in American politics, and (probably detrimentally, I'll admit) practiced with vigour on both sides. Blackmail is a way different story. Obviously the GOP could find no evidence that anything improper was done (and you can be sure, they tried), and whatever you think of Hunter Biden's qualifications for the job, there was never any reason to assume anything improper was done, apart from baseless conspiracy theories intended to smear Biden's name.

So yeah, no surprises, unless you're one of those morons who takes Trump and the political pundits working for him seriously (lol).

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 24, 2020, 06:31:33 PM
So why did Burisma Holdings hire Hunter Biden, please?

Please give me your reason for this occurrence and why this Ukrainian company gave away $millions to this particular individual in exchange for zero expertise, experience or labour.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 24, 2020, 06:45:05 PM
So why did Burisma Holdings hire Hunter Biden, please?

Please give me your reason for this occurrence and why this Ukrainian company gave away $millions to this particular individual in exchange for zero expertise, experience or labour.
Business culture.  By aiming the son of the US VP was on their board, they appear both more legitimate and far reaching.  Which, for other Ukrainian business, that sounds like you're amazing and really have your shit together.  It was like taking a $30 shoe, giving it to a basketball player to wear, and selling it for $150 because "Famous basketball player wears our shoes so they must be good."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on September 24, 2020, 06:55:39 PM
Business culture.  By aiming the son of the US VP was on their board, they appear both more legitimate and far reaching.  Which, for other Ukrainian business, that sounds like you're amazing and really have your shit together.  It was like taking a $30 shoe, giving it to a basketball player to wear, and selling it for $150 because "Famous basketball player wears our shoes so they must be good."

You think Hunter Biden has celebrity cache like Michael Jordan and that people will buy more Ukrainian gas because ... 'Hunter Biden'?

Gas is a global commodity. It isn't like a pair of shoes. It trades on the global markets and has a set price. You don't get more for your gas because 'Hunter Biden!'.

I fail to see how the inexperienced addition of the son of a US politician adds to your legitimacy nor do I see how your global company becomes more far reaching when people whisper in hushed tones 'Hunter Biden'.

If I was a Ukrainian Oligarch and my company was being investigated by the UK serious fraud office and all my assets were frozen ... What I'd be hoping is that by hiring the son of the US vice president, that VP might feel he owes me a favour and puts pressure on other nations and so they unfreeze my assets and the case mysteriously collapses. Which by complete coincidence is exactly what happened.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 24, 2020, 07:56:38 PM
So why did Burisma Holdings hire Hunter Biden, please?

Please give me your reason for this occurrence and why this Ukrainian company gave away $millions to this particular individual in exchange for zero expertise, experience or labour.

It really doesn't matter. Political reasons, obviously. The salient point is that it wasn't blackmail and the Republicans could find no evidence of wrongdoing.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 24, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
Business culture.  By aiming the son of the US VP was on their board, they appear both more legitimate and far reaching.  Which, for other Ukrainian business, that sounds like you're amazing and really have your shit together.  It was like taking a $30 shoe, giving it to a basketball player to wear, and selling it for $150 because "Famous basketball player wears our shoes so they must be good."

You think Hunter Biden has celebrity cache like Michael Jordan and that people will buy more Ukrainian gas because ... 'Hunter Biden'?

Gas is a global commodity. It isn't like a pair of shoes. It trades on the global markets and has a set price. You don't get more for your gas because 'Hunter Biden!'.

I fail to see how the inexperienced addition of the son of a US politician adds to your legitimacy nor do I see how your global company becomes more far reaching when people whisper in hushed tones 'Hunter Biden'.

If I was a Ukrainian Oligarch and my company was being investigated by the UK serious fraud office and all my assets were frozen ... What I'd be hoping is that by hiring the son of the US vice president, that VP might feel he owes me a favour and puts pressure on other nations and so they unfreeze my assets and the case mysteriously collapses. Which by complete coincidence is exactly what happened.
Clearly you don't understand business.

Name Dropping Biden is a big fucking deal.  Not because Hunter Biden is some kind of golden child of skill, but because he's got connections.  (or so you would think) 

And, reading further, apparently it was just that.  Not for business, of course, but to make the international community think they were super legit.  Not sure how the US VP managed to get a UK judge to rule a case was conjecture but... Ok.  I guess UK judges are super easy to manipulate.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 24, 2020, 08:21:07 PM
So why did Burisma Holdings hire Hunter Biden, please?

Please give me your reason for this occurrence and why this Ukrainian company gave away $millions to this particular individual in exchange for zero expertise, experience or labour.

Why does it matter?

Why should this be of any concern to an American who has lost family or friend, along with around 200,000 others, to COVID-19, when the President and his administration are doing practically b*gger-all to prevent its spread, with the President's son-in-law showing specific lack of skill and expertise in the field?

Why is this of any concern, when the President is aiming to subvert the basics of democracy, install a cultish religious fanatic on the highest court in the land, and shows overt racism and misogyny at every turn?

Hunter Biden is an irrelevance compared to this. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on September 25, 2020, 03:46:27 PM
When your idiot son gets $millions for being on the board of an oil and gas company and by his own admission knows nothing about oil and gas but your father is Vice-President of the USA ...

So the Republicans investigated Hunter, and ended up implicating one of their own.

https://www.salon.com/2020/09/24/democrats-alert-inspector-general-that-gops-biden-probe-directly-implicated-perry-in-corruption/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 25, 2020, 05:46:44 PM
https://youtu.be/k57TvPwtA0c
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on September 25, 2020, 06:00:48 PM
Can you please stop just posting videos without any sort of comment? There is an entire thread started for political mending if that makes you feel good.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on September 25, 2020, 06:03:59 PM
Tom's not wrong.  Liberalism is what helped Found America.  So naturally the founding fathers were batshit crazy.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on September 25, 2020, 08:50:19 PM
Tom, did you steal that from Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity? They both like to represent that the craziest fringes are representative of all liberals too.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on September 25, 2020, 08:53:02 PM
Can you please stop just posting video without any sort of comment?
I'd like to echo Rama's sentiment with my mod hat on. There's nothing wrong with sharing videos to support or enrich a point, but posting videos with no context or original discussion has always been frowned upon around here.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on October 12, 2020, 12:24:06 AM
#walkaway is picking up a lot of momentum.


I'll just leave this here. Maybe someone like Lord Dave or Roundy will come to their senses. Or maybe they will continue to support Beelzebub. Whatever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flp7gKg5G4E
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on October 12, 2020, 12:49:29 AM
#walkaway is an astroturfing campaign mainly fueled by dyed-in-the-wool conservatives rather than actual disaffected Democrats.

https://arcdigital.media/pro-trump-russian-linked-twitter-accounts-are-posing-as-ex-democrats-in-new-astroturfed-movement-20359c1906d3

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/07/02/the-walkaway-meme-is-what-happens-when-everything-is-viral-and-nothing-matters/

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/17/opinions/russian-bots-2018-midterm-elections-opinion-love/index.html

Admittedly, these articles are from 2018, but I doubt that the movement has suddenly turned genuine in the two years since. People can and do change their political views, but there's no real exodus of former liberals driven from the modern Democratic Party by the radicalism of its leaders.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 12, 2020, 03:54:16 AM
#walkaway is picking up a lot of momentum.


I'll just leave this here. Maybe someone like Lord Dave or Roundy will come to their senses. Or maybe they will continue to support Beelzebub. Whatever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flp7gKg5G4E

Fun fact:
I'm not a Democrat.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 12, 2020, 04:54:06 AM
#walkaway is picking up a lot of momentum.


I'll just leave this here. Maybe someone like Lord Dave or Roundy will come to their senses. Or maybe they will continue to support Beelzebub. Whatever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flp7gKg5G4E

Who is Georgia and why do we care what she has to say in a 40 minute video? And how are you gauging that this walkaway movement is "picking up a lot of momentum"? It's been kicking around since the 2018 midterms - Apparently had zero impact back then as evidenced by how the midterms turned out. Seems almost irrelevant.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 12, 2020, 11:44:15 AM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 12, 2020, 07:03:00 PM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?

Biden verbatim said he wants to take away guns, so regardless of what individual Democrats believe, the key candidate representing the party wants to take away guns. I'd say that's a pretty alarming sentiment that isn't properly met with "but muh both sides".
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 12, 2020, 07:41:15 PM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?

Biden verbatim said he wants to take away guns, so regardless of what individual Democrats believe, the key candidate representing the party wants to take away guns. I'd say that's a pretty alarming sentiment that isn't properly met with "but muh both sides".
Well, police take away guns all the time.  The question is: does he want to take away ALL guns from everyone, some guns from everyone, all guns from some people?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 12, 2020, 08:29:17 PM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?

Biden verbatim said he wants to take away guns, so regardless of what individual Democrats believe, the key candidate representing the party wants to take away guns. I'd say that's a pretty alarming sentiment that isn't properly met with "but muh both sides".

No, he didn't say that, per se...

Facts First: Biden's gun control plan does not include confiscating legally owned weapons and an interpretation of a "viral video" is a mishearing of what was said. The former vice president has said in the past that a Biden administration would come for people's "assault weapons."
Biden's gun control plan outlines a buyback program for "assault weapons and high-capacity magazines," but the program is not a mandatory buyback and would not force people to give their up their guns.
According to Biden's website, the buyback program "will give individuals who now possess assault weapons or high-capacity magazines two options: sell the weapons to the government, or register them under the National Firearms Act."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/politics/fact-check-joe-biden-gun-control/index.html

Here's more detail:
https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 03:23:48 AM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?

Biden verbatim said he wants to take away guns, so regardless of what individual Democrats believe, the key candidate representing the party wants to take away guns. I'd say that's a pretty alarming sentiment that isn't properly met with "but muh both sides".

No, he didn't say that, per se...

Facts First: Biden's gun control plan does not include confiscating legally owned weapons and an interpretation of a "viral video" is a mishearing of what was said. The former vice president has said in the past that a Biden administration would come for people's "assault weapons."
Biden's gun control plan outlines a buyback program for "assault weapons and high-capacity magazines," but the program is not a mandatory buyback and would not force people to give their up their guns.
According to Biden's website, the buyback program "will give individuals who now possess assault weapons or high-capacity magazines two options: sell the weapons to the government, or register them under the National Firearms Act."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/politics/fact-check-joe-biden-gun-control/index.html

Here's more detail:
https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/

From the same article:

Quote
But in August 2019, during an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper, Biden was asked about people who think a Biden administration "means they're going to come for my guns." Biden replied, "Bingo, you're right if you have an assault weapon. The fact of the matter is they should be illegal. Period."

Right, so lets look up what an "assault weapon" is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

"Drawing from federal and state law definitions, the term assault weapon refers primarily to semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns that are able to accept detachable magazines and possess one or more other features."

Ah, so Joe Biden wants to make nearly every gun in the country illegal and he wants to seize them. So let's take another look at:

Quote
Biden's gun control plan does not include confiscating legally owned weapons

Okay, but Joe wants to make them illegal, hence confiscation of illegal weapons. These silly word games where they say "well I won't take your legal firearms" but also "by the way, I want to make all of your legal firearms illegal" are so tiresome. Joe has a long history of anti-gun propaganda. Suddenly changing his website to be full of weasel words during an election doesn't make me feel like he's changed his mind.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 16, 2020, 04:18:24 AM
Claiming all Democrats are violent radical card carrying communist socialists who want to take away everyone's guns and 'destroy America' is like...

...claiming all Republicans are card carrying NAZI and KKK members who want to violently bring back slavery and murder all minorities.

I think one needs to be VERY careful before claiming one groups radicals represent all of them. Because every group has radicals they don't agree with, right?

Biden verbatim said he wants to take away guns, so regardless of what individual Democrats believe, the key candidate representing the party wants to take away guns. I'd say that's a pretty alarming sentiment that isn't properly met with "but muh both sides".

No, he didn't say that, per se...

Facts First: Biden's gun control plan does not include confiscating legally owned weapons and an interpretation of a "viral video" is a mishearing of what was said. The former vice president has said in the past that a Biden administration would come for people's "assault weapons."
Biden's gun control plan outlines a buyback program for "assault weapons and high-capacity magazines," but the program is not a mandatory buyback and would not force people to give their up their guns.
According to Biden's website, the buyback program "will give individuals who now possess assault weapons or high-capacity magazines two options: sell the weapons to the government, or register them under the National Firearms Act."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/politics/fact-check-joe-biden-gun-control/index.html

Here's more detail:
https://joebiden.com/gunsafety/

From the same article:

Quote
But in August 2019, during an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper, Biden was asked about people who think a Biden administration "means they're going to come for my guns." Biden replied, "Bingo, you're right if you have an assault weapon. The fact of the matter is they should be illegal. Period."

Right, so lets look up what an "assault weapon" is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

"Drawing from federal and state law definitions, the term assault weapon refers primarily to semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns that are able to accept detachable magazines and possess one or more other features."

Ah, so Joe Biden wants to make nearly every gun in the country illegal and he wants to seize them. So let's take another look at:

Quote
Biden's gun control plan does not include confiscating legally owned weapons

Okay, but Joe wants to make them illegal, hence confiscation of illegal weapons. These silly word games where they say "well I won't take your legal firearms" but also "by the way, I want to make all of your legal firearms illegal" are so tiresome. Joe has a long history of anti-gun propaganda. Suddenly changing his website to be full of weasel words during an election doesn't make me feel like he's changed his mind.

I get where you're coming from. But I also wouldn't worry about. Every Dem has been gunning for guns for as long as I've been alive. The NRA is more powerful than any government it seems. You may get hit with a large mag, bump stock, maybe even "assault rifle" ban, but doubtful. The 2nd amendment is even stronger with the new SCOTUS. Biden won't be able to do anything about it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 01:02:53 PM
I get where you're coming from. But I also wouldn't worry about. Every Dem has been gunning for guns for as long as I've been alive. The NRA is more powerful than any government it seems. You may get hit with a large mag, bump stock, maybe even "assault rifle" ban, but doubtful. The 2nd amendment is even stronger with the new SCOTUS. Biden won't be able to do anything about it.

Assault rifles are already banned in the US. Democrats want to ban "assault weapons" which is their entirely self-created term that means "any gun we don't like". Also, Biden is refusing to say he won't pack the SCOTUS just to get his way. We already have numerous gun bans across Democratic states such as California and New York. It's entirely evident that Democrats want to ban weapons, there's just this pesky 2nd amendment that keeps getting in the way. Saying Biden isn't coming for guns is entirely incorrect, as I previously stated. You've already gone from "well that's wrong" to "well, he wants to, but he can't". Biden is scared to hammer on his anti-gun nature outright because he knows it would make his poll numbers nosedive. Anti-gun sentiment is still a very fringe factor in the US.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 01:06:07 PM
Assault rifles are already banned in the US. Democrats want to ban "assault weapons" which is their entirely self-created term that means "any gun we don't like". Also, Biden is refusing to say he won't pack the SCOTUS just to get his way.

Surely you don't have a problem with politicians vying to get the justices they want on SCOTUS to further their agenda?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 01:09:09 PM
Assault rifles are already banned in the US. Democrats want to ban "assault weapons" which is their entirely self-created term that means "any gun we don't like". Also, Biden is refusing to say he won't pack the SCOTUS just to get his way.

Surely you don't have a problem with politicians vying to get the justices they want on SCOTUS to further their agenda?

It's an entirely legal process and he is free to pack the court if he has the political control to do so. In the sense that I would not want him to do it, then yes, I have a problem with it, but he is legally allowed to do it. However, taking away guns is a different matter. Weapon ownership is a human right and no legal process exists to prevent it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 01:12:57 PM
Constitutional amendments are the legal process. Reasonable restrictions on rights often illuminated by the judiciary are a way to constrain rights. So there are ways legal
ways to impose policy positions on gun ownership.

That being said, I seriously doubt your guns will be taken away, but it’s not unreasonable to attribute that position to him. Guns are sadly too ingrained in your culture.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 01:17:12 PM
Constitutional amendments are the legal process. Reasonable restrictions on rights often illuminated by the judiciary are a way to constrain rights. So there are ways legal
ways to impose policy positions on gun ownership.

That being said, I seriously doubt your guns will be taken away, but it’s not unreasonable to attribute that position to him. Guns are sadly too ingrained in your culture.

Constitutional amendments do not determine human rights. If a constitutional amendment made it illegal to be X religion, to be X race, or to own a home or business, it would also be rightfully ignored. If this were the case in your country, you would (hopefully) ignore such laws as well.

That said, your overall point is correct. Biden does not have the personal or political power to actually take away guns, but he does have the desire to do so.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 01:42:37 PM
Constitutional amendments are the legal process. Reasonable restrictions on rights often illuminated by the judiciary are a way to constrain rights. So there are ways legal
ways to impose policy positions on gun ownership.

That being said, I seriously doubt your guns will be taken away, but it’s not unreasonable to attribute that position to him. Guns are sadly too ingrained in your culture.

Constitutional amendments do not determine human rights. If a constitutional amendment made it illegal to be X religion, to be X race, or to own a home or business, it would also be rightfully ignored. If this were the case in your country, you would (hopefully) ignore such laws as well.

That said, your overall point is correct. Biden does not have the personal or political power to actually take away guns, but he does have the desire to do so.

Where is gun ownership described as a fundamental human right? I haven’t seen it described that way and there is no prohibition against it being repealed. The international community certainly doesn’t uphold gun ownership as fundamental.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on October 16, 2020, 03:21:03 PM
So gun ownership is a fundamental human right but healthcare isn't, ok
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 16, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Assault rifles are already banned in the US. Democrats want to ban "assault weapons" which is their entirely self-created term that means "any gun we don't like". Also, Biden is refusing to say he won't pack the SCOTUS just to get his way.

Surely you don't have a problem with politicians vying to get the justices they want on SCOTUS to further their agenda?
Weapon ownership is a human right and no legal process exists to prevent it.

It is not a human right.  Its a US right, but not a human one.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 04:09:38 PM
Where is gun ownership described as a fundamental human right? I haven’t seen it described that way and there is no prohibition against it being repealed. The international community certainly doesn’t uphold gun ownership as fundamental.

Everywhere.

So gun ownership is a fundamental human right but healthcare isn't, ok

One requires that you take other people's money to pay for something, the other does not. You're not entitled to other people's products or labor. A doctor doesn't have to care for you. A nurse doesn't have to tend to you. It's impossible for healthcare to be a human right.

It is not a human right.  Its a US right, but not a human one.

Incorrect.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on October 16, 2020, 04:17:31 PM
Where is gun ownership described as a fundamental human right? I haven’t seen it described that way and there is no prohibition against it being repealed. The international community certainly doesn’t uphold gun ownership as fundamental.

Everywhere.

So gun ownership is a fundamental human right but healthcare isn't, ok

One requires that you take other people's money to pay for something, the other does not. You're not entitled to other people's products or labor. A doctor doesn't have to care for you. A nurse doesn't have to tend to you. It's impossible for healthcare to be a human right.

It is not a human right.  Its a US right, but not a human one.

Incorrect.

You're just using arguments that fit your opinion, you haven't logically supported that gun ownership is a fundamental human right.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 04:18:12 PM
Where is gun ownership described as a fundamental human right? I haven’t seen it described that way and there is no prohibition against it being repealed. The international community certainly doesn’t uphold gun ownership as fundamental.

Everywhere.

Can you give me one source from the US government that says so?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 16, 2020, 05:26:13 PM
Well Rushy, I have here the UN human rights declaration.

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

So kindly tell us which version of human rights you are using as I know its not this one.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 07:55:20 PM
You're just using arguments that fit your opinion

Well, yes, that's the fundamental basis for all arguments.

you haven't logically supported that gun ownership is a fundamental human right.

There's no such thing as logical support of a right. For example, saying "human beings have a right to live" is just an opinion. You can approach an opinion logically but ultimately it's still just an opinion.

Can you give me one source from the US government that says so?

Governments do not determine human rights.

Well Rushy, I have here the UN human rights declaration.

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

So kindly tell us which version of human rights you are using as I know its not this one.

If the UN said "Asians do not have the right to live", would you think "well, it's the UN, so I must agree"? If not, then obviously the UN isn't actually the source of human rights and your point is nonsense.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 16, 2020, 09:11:03 PM
Ahhh, I figured you were using your own personal definition.

Welp, nothing to argue then. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: garygreen on October 16, 2020, 09:21:46 PM
One requires that you take other people's money to pay for something, the other does not. You're not entitled to other people's products or labor. A doctor doesn't have to care for you. A nurse doesn't have to tend to you. It's impossible for healthcare to be a human right.

my dude, private insurance already works on exactly the same principle. your insurer doesn't set your dollars aside for you in case you need them later. they spend the money you give them on other people's healthcare. that's just how any kind of group insurance works. you're paying for it to be available to you when you need it.

i do not understand this quixotic quest to preserve the "freedom" to not spend money on healthcare. that's not a genuine freedom. i don't think i've ever met a single human who wants to make that choice. and that's because it isn't really a free and un-coerced choice. everyone wants to not be sick and debilitated. being sick and debilitated are anathema to freedom.

put another way: "i have to pay these taxes because i don't want to lose freedom by going to jail" is qualitatively identical to "i have to pay my private insurance bill because i don't want to lose freedom by getting sick and not having any healthcare." they're both coerced choices.

the only real consideration is — how do we min-max cost and access to a service that literally everyone requires? right now we have a system of private firms that minimize access and maximize costs for the purpose of extracting profit from the coerced choice to purchase health insurance. how about instead we have a system that operates on literally precisely the same principle as private insurance, but actually provides a service.

tbh if the choice were between single-payer and private insurance with the same access to healthcare, then i'd probably be more sympathetic to your view. i dunno about you, but my plan is currently "give us lots of money now for the privilege of still paying lots of money out-of-pocket when you need healthcare later."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 09:34:47 PM
Can you give me one source from the US government that says so?

Governments do not determine human rights.

On what basis are you saying gun ownership is described as a fundamental right everywhere?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 10:19:52 PM
my dude, private insurance already works on exactly the same principle. your insurer doesn't set your dollars aside for you in case you need them later. they spend the money you give them on other people's healthcare. that's just how any kind of group insurance works. you're paying for it to be available to you when you need it.

i do not understand this quixotic quest to preserve the "freedom" to not spend money on healthcare. that's not a genuine freedom. i don't think i've ever met a single human who wants to make that choice. and that's because it isn't really a free and un-coerced choice. everyone wants to not be sick and debilitated. being sick and debilitated are anathema to freedom.

put another way: "i have to pay these taxes because i don't want to lose freedom by going to jail" is qualitatively identical to "i have to pay my private insurance bill because i don't want to lose freedom by getting sick and not having any healthcare." they're both coerced choices.

the only real consideration is — how do we min-max cost and access to a service that literally everyone requires? right now we have a system of private firms that minimize access and maximize costs for the purpose of extracting profit from the coerced choice to purchase health insurance. how about instead we have a system that operates on literally precisely the same principle as private insurance, but actually provides a service.

tbh if the choice were between single-payer and private insurance with the same access to healthcare, then i'd probably be more sympathetic to your view. i dunno about you, but my plan is currently "give us lots of money now for the privilege of still paying lots of money out-of-pocket when you need healthcare later."

Private insurance is voluntary and makes people pay based on their individual status. If a person is more likely to require expensive healthcare, an insurer will give them a higher premium to offset their costs. The government cannot (and should not) charge people based on their healthcare choices. Asking for public healthcare, and considering it a right, is the equivalent of asking the government to do things like regulate health as a whole. No, the system is not perfect, but it's better than moving the cost to the government. What you'll end up with is a bad case of regulatory capture. (or, you know, exactly what happened with ACA). Moving the cost to the government makes healthcare cheaper in much the same way as having the government pay for higher learning makes tuition for colleges go down: ergo, it doesn't.

I would only agree with public healthcare alongside the introductions of things like sugar taxes, higher drug taxes, and mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications. In other words, if the government gets involved in the healthcare business, it should be all of it, not just fronting the cost of healthcare to taxpayers who shouldn't be responsible for it. Personally, I don't think the government should do any of that and therefore it should stay out of healthcare. Unless you want to tax people for being fat, you shouldn't want public healthcare, either.

Ahhh, I figured you were using your own personal definition.

Welp, nothing to argue then. 

You never answered my question. If the UN determined that X race has no right to live, would you agree with it? The answer is almost certainly 'no' and that means you're the one deciding what are human rights and not the UN. Ultimately, rights are up to you to decide for yourself, not for some government or psuedo-government to lecture to you.

On what basis are you saying gun ownership is described as a fundamental right everywhere?

The basis that human rights do not suddenly exist in some places and not in others. You are confused between what's legal and illegal and what's a human right. The two are not connected at all.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 16, 2020, 10:24:55 PM
mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications

Why should anyone have to pay more because of this?  The whole point to insurance is that everyone chips in and the money goes to who needs it.  You are healthy and don't have any genetic problems, well good for you, feel lucky you DON'T need to use it as much as others, don't get upset because you have to 'waste' money on insurance you don't need.

Why have insurance at all if you're just going to force people to pay for their misfortune and bad luck?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 10:29:48 PM
mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications

Why should anyone have to pay more because of this?  The whole point to insurance is that everyone chips in and the money goes to who needs it.  You are healthy and don't have any genetic problems, well good for you, feel lucky you DON'T need to use it as much as others, don't get upset because you have to 'waste' money on insurance you don't need.

Why have insurance at all if you're just going to force people to pay for their misfortune and bad luck?

Insurance is fundamentally a bet that the insurer will make more money than they'll expend taking care of the collective insured. The betting odds change based on how healthy you are. If the government is paying a cost based on betting, how is it not fair that the government get a better idea of the odds?

If the odds are that a given person will cost more money, then that person should be required to pay a higher cost over time to offset the chance they'll require more money. The most common healthcare problems are often entirely voluntary. Drinking, obesity, reckless driving, smoking, unprotected sex, these are all voluntary items that increase the cost of healthcare to the individual. Why should a taxpayer who chooses none of these things be forced to pay for one who does?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 16, 2020, 10:36:56 PM
mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications

Why should anyone have to pay more because of this?  The whole point to insurance is that everyone chips in and the money goes to who needs it.  You are healthy and don't have any genetic problems, well good for you, feel lucky you DON'T need to use it as much as others, don't get upset because you have to 'waste' money on insurance you don't need.

Why have insurance at all if you're just going to force people to pay for their misfortune and bad luck?

Insurance is fundamentally a bet that the insurer will make more money than they'll expend taking care of the collective insured. The betting odds change based on how healthy you are. If the government is paying a cost based on betting, how is it not fair that the government get a better idea of the odds?

If the odds are that a given person will cost more money, then that person should be required to pay a higher cost over time to offset the chance they'll require more money. The most common healthcare problems are often entirely voluntary. Drinking, obesity, reckless driving, smoking, unprotected sex, these are all voluntary items that increase the cost of healthcare to the individual. Why should a taxpayer who chooses none of these things be forced to pay for one who does?

So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 16, 2020, 10:42:50 PM
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 16, 2020, 11:02:33 PM
mandated DNA tests to determine if you should be charged more for expected complications

Why should anyone have to pay more because of this?  The whole point to insurance is that everyone chips in and the money goes to who needs it.  You are healthy and don't have any genetic problems, well good for you, feel lucky you DON'T need to use it as much as others, don't get upset because you have to 'waste' money on insurance you don't need.

Why have insurance at all if you're just going to force people to pay for their misfortune and bad luck?

Insurance is fundamentally a bet that the insurer will make more money than they'll expend taking care of the collective insured. The betting odds change based on how healthy you are. If the government is paying a cost based on betting, how is it not fair that the government get a better idea of the odds?

If the odds are that a given person will cost more money, then that person should be required to pay a higher cost over time to offset the chance they'll require more money. The most common healthcare problems are often entirely voluntary. Drinking, obesity, reckless driving, smoking, unprotected sex, these are all voluntary items that increase the cost of healthcare to the individual. Why should a taxpayer who chooses none of these things be forced to pay for one who does?

Because this isn't a game.  It's not about keeping score and making sure health care is fair.  Life isn't fair.  It's not fair to be diagnosed with cancer when you're 6.

It's immoral to deny health care to people just because they weren't born to rich parents or fell into the wrong risk group.  Dying because of where you were born? That's not fair.

If you are concerned people are doing unhealthy things and it's not fair they get health care, well tax the things you don't like, you mentioned that before.

But don't deny people health care based on risk factors they can't control.  The US healthcare system is a disaster. People shouldn't have to die because a corporation wants more profits.

I know people in other countries would never have survived to be an adult here because they couldn't have paid for care they needed.  Do they not deserve to live?  Are their lives worthless because their parents were not wealthy? 

I'm sorry if you feel your forced to pay for other peoples health care.  I hope you continue to be forced to pay for others, it's way better than being the one that needs it.  Consider yourself lucky.

You don't want to go down the road of deciding who should get care based on their life choices.  After all, smokers actually cost the government LESS because on average they die early from aggressive cancers and don't live long enough to collect lots of benefits and need years of expensive end of life care.  If you're going to value a life purely on how much the government has to spend on them you might find yourself the one being thrown out into the cold.  Your healthy living is going to be expensive in the long run after all. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 17, 2020, 12:20:30 AM
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.

Makes a lot more sense than gun ownership being a right.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 17, 2020, 01:14:59 AM
Quote
But don't deny people health care based on risk factors they can't control.  The US healthcare system is a disaster. People shouldn't have to die because a corporation wants more profits.

There already is socialized medicine in the US. It's called medicaid for the poor and medicare for the old. Millions are on it, and use it to get healthcare.

Why should people who can afford healthcare get it too?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 17, 2020, 01:40:06 AM
Quote
But don't deny people health care based on risk factors they can't control.  The US healthcare system is a disaster. People shouldn't have to die because a corporation wants more profits.

There already is socialized medicine in the US. It's called medicaid for the poor and medicare for the old. Millions are on it, and use it to get healthcare.

Why should people who can afford healthcare get it too?

Why not?  Other countries manage it.  Why can't the richest country on the planet give all their citizens access to heath care?

Why do you want to deny people health care?  There are plenty of people who can't afford health care but are not old or poor enough to get either medicare or medicaid.  Plenty of people who can afford insurance still go bankrupt due to medical bills that insurance won't cover.

Obamacare expanded Medicaid to younger people but of course, only the blue states enacted it, so if you're in a red state you are out of luck.

Millions are on it, but we still have 30 million people without health care.  In the richest country on the planet.  That is just sad.



Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 17, 2020, 02:14:45 AM
That's not a good enough reason. If hospitals are playing games and using out of network doctors and causing medical bankruptcies, that can be fixed through legislation. I don't see why the entire field needs to be socialized if there is a single problem.

The people who are poor or old are largely already on the socialized programs. The socialized programs of Medicare and Medicaid already serve almost 160 million people combined.

Medicare - 61.2 Million (https://www.ncpssm.org/our-issues/medicare/medicare-fast-facts/)
Medicaid - 97 Million  (https://www.cbpp.org/research/health/policy-basics-introduction-to-medicaid)

Much more than the 30 million figure cited. Considering the US population is 328.2 million (https://www.google.com/search?q=US+population), that's a lot. Medicine is already largely socialized. Medicaid even offers socialized supplemental insurance for people who are under-insured.

The 30 million figure appears to only refer to people who went without coverage at some point during the year: “Nearly 30 million Americans went without coverage at some point in 2019.” (https://www.marketplace.org/2020/09/16/census-survey-nearly-30-million-people-without-health-insurance-2019/) The Continuation of Health Coverage (COBRA) program allows you to bill medical claims to your previous insurance if you get sick for up to 18 months if they are transitioning between jobs, as long as you pay the rate your employer was paying. If you are unemployed for a long period of time then you should probably be on Medicaid. Medicaid can be applied for 60 days after losing your job, which some people neglect to apply for.

The actual number of chronically uninsured might be unaware of the socialized healthcare options available to them, are young and healthy, or don't care. If they get sick they know that they can just get insurance when they need it, since applicants are not judged for pre-existing conditions anymore.

Medicine is already socialized for those who need it. There is no reason to socialize it for people who can afford it. If it was totally socialized the people who could afford it would just be paying for it anyway via taxes, with an extra layer of government bureaucracy, and would likely get less options available to them. Right now young people can choose a cheaper catastrophic plan, and people willing to pay more can choose elaborate plans that include non-standard alternative practitioners or incidentals considered cosmetic by regular plans. If it was standardized by the government to a single plan there would be fewer options available. It also removes the competition aspect among insurance providers which naturally makes the standard plans employers buy cheaper.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 17, 2020, 01:29:47 PM
Giuliani to release (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/16/giuliani_hard_drives_and_texts_back_up_hunter_biden_story_trump_taxes_published_without_verification.html) evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

(https://i.imgur.com/QDiCTUt.gif)

Giuliani interview with Daily Caller on Hunter Biden's laptop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7ziEwfWghA&feature=emb_title&ab_channel=DailyCaller
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 17, 2020, 01:48:17 PM
That's not a good enough reason. If hospitals are playing games and using out of network doctors and causing medical bankruptcies, that can be fixed through legislation. I don't see why the entire field needs to be socialized if there is a single problem.

The people who are poor or old are largely already on the socialized programs. The socialized programs of Medicare and Medicaid already serve almost 160 million people combined.

Medicare - 61.2 Million (https://www.ncpssm.org/our-issues/medicare/medicare-fast-facts/)
Medicaid - 97 Million  (https://www.cbpp.org/research/health/policy-basics-introduction-to-medicaid)

Much more than the 30 million figure cited. Considering the US population is 320 million, that's a lot. Medicine is already largely socialized.

The 30 million figure appears to only refer to people who went without coverage at some point during the year: “Nearly 30 million Americans went without coverage at some point in 2019.” (https://www.marketplace.org/2020/09/16/census-survey-nearly-30-million-people-without-health-insurance-2019/) The Continuation of Health Coverage (COBRA) program allows you to bill medical claims to your previous insurance if you get sick for up to 18 months if they are transitioning between jobs, as long as you pay the rate your employer was paying. If you are unemployed for a long period of time then you should probably be on Medicaid. Medicaid can be applied for 60 days after losing your job, which some people neglect to apply for.

The actual number of chronically uninsured might be unaware of the socialized healthcare options available to them, are young and healthy, or don't care. If they get sick they know that they can just get insurance when they need it, since applicants are not judged for pre-existing conditions anymore.

Medicine is already socialized for those who need it. There is no reason to socialize it for people who can afford it. If it was totally socialized the people who could afford it would just be paying for it anyway via taxes, with an extra layer of government bureaucracy, and would likely get less options available to them. Right now young people can choose a cheaper catastrophic plan, and people willing to pay can choose elaborate plans that include non-standard alternative practitioners or incidentals considered cosmetic by regular plans. If it was standardized by the government to a single plan there would be fewer options available. It also removes the competition aspect which naturally makes the standard plans employers buy cheaper.
Medicare and medicaid qualifications vary by state and "need" is a hard term to apply.  For example, a walmart cashier doesn't get insurance via his job nor will medicaid be offered in most cases. 

The requirements are strict in many states.  Also, doctors are not required to accept medicare patients, if I recall.  So that hurts options too.


Giuliani to release (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/16/giuliani_hard_drives_and_texts_back_up_hunter_biden_story_trump_taxes_published_without_verification.html) evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

(https://i.imgur.com/QDiCTUt.gif)

Giuliani interview with Daily Caller on Hunter Biden's laptop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7ziEwfWghA&feature=emb_title&ab_channel=DailyCaller

As opposed to... Now?
Also, he really wants to play that card?  Mr. 'Join my club and you can meet me' Trump?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 17, 2020, 02:09:54 PM
If people on medicare and medicaid are still paying out of pocket and experiencing medical bankruptcies, then its a shit system.  My friend in the US, who had medical insurance, got breast cancer and still had to pay tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket.  Its a shit system.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 17, 2020, 02:53:26 PM
Giuliani to release (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/16/giuliani_hard_drives_and_texts_back_up_hunter_biden_story_trump_taxes_published_without_verification.html) evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

Yes, I'm sure whatever this is will be vastly more corrupt than all the crap Trump has done in the past 4 years with his hotels and resorts directly funneling taxpayer money into his properties and making the secret service pay to stay at his hotels and letting foreign governments directly bribe him by going to his hotels.

Plus God knows what with whatever foreign bank he owes that 400 million to and... yeah.

Yawn.

Trump is a walking conflict of interest and we are supposed to get riled up about something crazy Giuliani is going to say?  Sure.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 17, 2020, 04:51:44 PM
Giuliani to release (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/16/giuliani_hard_drives_and_texts_back_up_hunter_biden_story_trump_taxes_published_without_verification.html) evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

Yes, I'm sure whatever this is will be vastly more corrupt than all the crap Trump has done in the past 4 years with his hotels and resorts directly funneling taxpayer money into his properties and making the secret service pay to stay at his hotels and letting foreign governments directly bribe him by going to his hotels.

Plus God knows what with whatever foreign bank he owes that 400 million to and... yeah.

Yawn.

Trump is a walking conflict of interest and we are supposed to get riled up about something crazy Giuliani is going to say?  Sure.

My guess is that it's going to be as treasonous, juicy, and fact-filled as the Falconer and the Survivor story.

I get the sort of TV "Upcoming Episode Teaser" aspect of saying stuff will be released 10 days before, but also seems like sort of a risky gambit to wait when so many people are voting early. I'm looking forward to it anyway and will set my DVR accordingly.

Edit: Just read the last line again: "This has three people on the record, now four. It's a hard drive and text messages. If you read them, it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."

...it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's. - "Almost"? Interesting hedge. Very unlike Rudy. Based upon his past bloviating I would expect something more like, "It's impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 17, 2020, 05:44:54 PM
Giuliani to release (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/10/16/giuliani_hard_drives_and_texts_back_up_hunter_biden_story_trump_taxes_published_without_verification.html) evidence implicating Joe Biden in a pay-for-play corruption scandal 10 days before election.

Yes, I'm sure whatever this is will be vastly more corrupt than all the crap Trump has done in the past 4 years with his hotels and resorts directly funneling taxpayer money into his properties and making the secret service pay to stay at his hotels and letting foreign governments directly bribe him by going to his hotels.

Plus God knows what with whatever foreign bank he owes that 400 million to and... yeah.

Yawn.

Trump is a walking conflict of interest and we are supposed to get riled up about something crazy Giuliani is going to say?  Sure.

My guess is that it's going to be as treasonous, juicy, and fact-filled as the Falconer and the Survivor story.

I get the sort of TV "Upcoming Episode Teaser" aspect of saying stuff will be released 10 days before, but also seems like sort of a risky gambit to wait when so many people are voting early. I'm looking forward to it anyway and will set my DVR accordingly.

Edit: Just read the last line again: "This has three people on the record, now four. It's a hard drive and text messages. If you read them, it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."

...it's almost impossible it's not Hunter Biden's. - "Almost"? Interesting hedge. Very unlike Rudy. Based upon his past bloviating I would expect something more like, "It's impossible it's not Hunter Biden's."

"We have all this evidence but, you know, we're not entirely sure where its from.  Could be from Hunter Biden's HDD.  Could be from a fan fic someone wrote.  Who can say?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 17, 2020, 06:27:42 PM
The story on how this HD came in to Giuliani’s possession has been very malleable from telling to telling. Either the store owner cloned it and got in touch with Giuliani somehow or Giuliani got in touch with him or it was through the FBI. It’s also possible the emails came from the identified Russian agent he has been working with, but that’s speculatory. What has been leaked so far is not very damning. I’m interested you see if there anything with more teeth.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 17, 2020, 09:24:51 PM
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.

(https://i.imgur.com/FSgZphv.gif)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on October 17, 2020, 09:58:10 PM
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.

I wish we had that Rudy Guliani today.

I'm not sure who this half senile butt-dialing, hot-micing, lying, ass-kissing Trump sycophant is, but it's not him.

Have you seen him talk lately? He's clearly lost his marbles.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 17, 2020, 11:30:46 PM
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.


His job is to do Trump’s bidding now. He may or may not have evidence of a crime, Im interested to see, but I highly doubt anything related to Burisma will be that damning, especially considering what’s generally acceptable in US politics.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 18, 2020, 05:22:57 AM
Rudy Guliani has taken down crooked organizations before. If Guliani says that he has sufficient evidence of crimes implicating Biden and his family then there should be concern that he has sufficient evidence of those crimes.

(https://i.imgur.com/FSgZphv.gif)

Isn't it nice to see political enemies as the same as mafia crime families?  Gives you a real, fuzzy, communist USSR feel, doesn't it, Comrade? 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 21, 2020, 10:50:43 PM
If Gulania had info the best thing to do would be to release it before tomorrow's Thursday debate. Release it at a time for peak embarrassment. Biden would either have to answer for it on air or drop out of the debate, generating more media momentum on it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on October 22, 2020, 02:14:25 AM
Well anything he drops now is going to be a lot less effective, now that he was found duped into (almost) jacking off in a hotel room as part of the next Borat movie...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 22, 2020, 03:47:31 AM
If Gulania had info the best thing to do would be to release it before tomorrow's Thursday debate. Release it at a time for peak embarrassment. Biden would either have to answer for it on air or drop out of the debate, generating more media momentum on it.

But he won't because he doesn't.

Just like I could release all the data I have on Tom, showing that he's actually a 26 year old high school dropout troll.  I mean, its ALOT of data, really.  But I'm not ready to release it. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rushy on October 23, 2020, 01:24:13 AM
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.

Makes a lot more sense than gun ownership being a right.

How do you make it a right to provide a service? Do you intend on forcing doctors to attend to patients? Such a system doesn't make fundamental sense to me. Remember, the right is to own a gun, not the right to be given a gun. No one has the right to be given a service or product, the very idea that they do is against the autonomy rights of others.

That isn't to say that some countries do in fact force people to provide a service or product to others. Governments exist to force people to do things, so this shouldn't be a surprise.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 23, 2020, 01:31:17 AM
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.

Makes a lot more sense than gun ownership being a right.

How do you make it a right to provide a service? Do you intend on forcing doctors to attend to patients? Such a system doesn't make fundamental sense to me.

I would recommend researching other countries that implement these services.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Clyde Frog on October 23, 2020, 01:33:42 AM
I'm pretty sure ER doctors, for example, don't have a choice either way - they have to provide service when someone shows up that needs care. And the cost of the uninsured who also can't and/or refuse to pay gets passed on to the rest of us as increased cost. Sure would be nice to have that accounted for as a true "cost of doing business" that would be negotiated as such and, in the end, should cost the public less. We're paying that money anyway. If we can provide all Americans a better quality of life, which we can seemingly afford based on looking at how other countries have implemented single payer healthcare, and in doing so we can also end up spending less overall (which, again, other countries that are using that model have shown is possible), that seems like a win.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 23, 2020, 01:36:16 AM
So that when nature decides to get you, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt because you can't afford healthcare.

When nature decides to 'get you', your overall cost should go up. I don't disagree with the idea that healthcare requires better regulation and price gouging should be eliminated, but the idea that it is a right is nonsense.

Makes a lot more sense than gun ownership being a right.
How do you make it a right to provide a service? Do you intend on forcing doctors to attend to patients?

The Hippocratic Oath pretty much covers off on this already.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on October 29, 2020, 10:49:25 AM
So Tucker Carlson claimed he had incriminating documents about Biden.

But he lost them.

Seriously.  (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/fox-news-tucker-carlson-hunter-biden-evidence-deep-state-b1412878.html)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 29, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
So Tucker Carlson claimed he had incriminating documents about Biden.

But he lost them.

Seriously.  (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/fox-news-tucker-carlson-hunter-biden-evidence-deep-state-b1412878.html)

I know.
No backups.
No copies.
No one even read them, apparently.

Go figure.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on October 29, 2020, 02:43:28 PM
Somebody characterized it as "The dog ate my October Surprise", that's hilarious.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on October 29, 2020, 05:02:35 PM
It's funny, but Carlson's usual viewers are the intended audience for this, not us, and they undoubtedly fully believe him and are frantically imagining all sorts of terrible things that the documents would have disclosed.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 29, 2020, 06:54:35 PM
It's funny, but Carlson's usual viewers are the intended audience for this, not us, and they undoubtedly fully believe him and are frantically imagining all sorts of terrible things that the documents would have disclosed.

Reading youtube comments it seems like its more "Well, he didn't SAY he didn't have backups so lets wait and see..."

Which is just sad.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on October 29, 2020, 07:23:10 PM
Carlson didn't say anything about not having copies, though. Carlson just said that his mail appears to have been tampered with/stolen.

Journalist Roger Sollenberger claims that Carlson told him that he did have copies.

https://twitter.com/SollenbergerRC/status/1321638898834038785

(https://i.imgur.com/C2dugS5.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on October 29, 2020, 07:32:30 PM
There may be hope after all for yet another treasonous, damning October Surprise just like the last handful of them that all crashed and burned:

UPS says it found the lost cache of documents that Tucker Carlson claimed would damage Joe Biden's campaign
https://www.businessinsider.com/ups-said-found-lost-tucker-carlson-documents-sending-back-2020-10
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on October 29, 2020, 10:11:36 PM
There may be hope after all for yet another treasonous, damning October Surprise just like the last handful of them that all crashed and burned:

UPS says it found the lost cache of documents that Tucker Carlson claimed would damage Joe Biden's campaign
https://www.businessinsider.com/ups-said-found-lost-tucker-carlson-documents-sending-back-2020-10

I'm sure they'll be just as damning as literal treason.  Yep.  And we'll see them and they'll live up to the hype.  No doubt.  I'm sure a digital copy is being readied to be posted online as we speak.


Oh snap.  I just realized what they're doing: November Surprise.
They hype up some damning evidence so close to election day that by the time they release it and admit its nothing big, its already Nov. 4.

Example:
Oct 30  Biden is going to court!
Nov 1 Biden Broke THE LAW!!!!!!
Nov 2: Biden to stand before A JUDGE!
Nov 3: Election coverage
Nov 4: Biden goes before judge about parking ticket.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 04, 2020, 03:44:21 AM
Trump is winning by a landslide. :(
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 04, 2020, 07:09:07 PM
Trump is winning by a landslide. :(

He is.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 04, 2020, 09:54:09 PM
For the Trump landslide to be stopped he only needs to lose:
• NV and AZ, where Trump is currently losing
• PA which is trending away from Trump
• GA which is trending away from Trump and “oopsie! Lost 300,000 ballots”
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 04, 2020, 09:57:48 PM
If Biden gets Nevada and Michigan, where he's currently ahead, that's 270 and it's over.

Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Georgia are all in play too.

It's looking pretty good for Joe right now.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: junker on November 04, 2020, 09:58:53 PM
If Biden gets Nevada and Michigan, where he's currently ahead, that's 270 and it's over.

Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Georgia are all in play too.

It's looking pretty good for Joe right now.

NYT has called MI for Biden, so it looks like he has WI and MI. If NV and AZ hold, then Biden wins.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 04, 2020, 09:59:52 PM
If Biden gets Nevada and Michigan, where he's currently ahead, that's 270 and it's over.

Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Georgia are all in play too.

It's looking pretty good for Joe right now.

NYT has called MI for Biden, so it looks like he has WI and MI. If NV and AZ hold, then Biden wins.
Fox News interrupted Rudy G to call MI for Biden, so you know it’s legit.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 04, 2020, 10:15:14 PM
I won't be satisfied by a victory this narrow, especially not with Republicans retaining the Senate. There is inherent value to the Oval Office not being occupied by a literal piece of shit who revels in his IRL villainy, but I was hoping for a definitive repudiation of Trump's presidency. I can't believe that there are this many Americans looking at the state of our country and apparently saying, "Yes, this is acceptable. Four more years of this, please."

And I'm not willing to take it for granted that Biden has won yet.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 04, 2020, 10:25:01 PM
And I'm not willing to take it for granted that Biden has won yet.
Wise. But I am starting to think that Biden is going to do it. It’s going to be very close though and is going to get very nasty and litigious and will leave the US a more divided nation than ever.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on November 04, 2020, 11:01:06 PM
The good part about Biden is he;s gonna give us the socialized meds, free money, easy life or dems burn the place down. Satan would approve.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 04, 2020, 11:02:13 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/crowd-storm-detroit-vote-count-election-2020-b1598248.html

First civil unrest related to Trump's stupid and irresponsible proclamations about voting.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on November 04, 2020, 11:07:42 PM
Yeah, the real pain isnt going to start until after the votes have been counted. Sad to think it's only going to get worse from here...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on November 04, 2020, 11:17:30 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/crowd-storm-detroit-vote-count-election-2020-b1598248.html

First civil unrest related to Trump's stupid and irresponsible proclamations about voting.
I can't wait for free dog food at Walmart....this is going to be a great year.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 04, 2020, 11:21:35 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/crowd-storm-detroit-vote-count-election-2020-b1598248.html

First civil unrest related to Trump's stupid and irresponsible proclamations about voting.
I can't wait for free dog food at Walmart....this is going to be a great year.

Jesus hates looters, sinner.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: crutonius on November 05, 2020, 01:15:16 AM
I won't be satisfied by a victory this narrow, especially not with Republicans retaining the Senate. There is inherent value to the Oval Office not being occupied by a literal piece of shit who revels in his IRL villainy, but I was hoping for a definitive repudiation of Trump's presidency. I can't believe that there are this many Americans looking at the state of our country and apparently saying, "Yes, this is acceptable. Four more years of this, please."

And I'm not willing to take it for granted that Biden has won yet.

Agreed.  Should Biden win then many will be celebrating but they should be freaking the hell out.  If it weren't for covid then Trump would have easily skated to reelection. 

Four years ago when Trump won it was shocking.  I felt like I didn't know this country.  But maybe that many people didn't watch TV.  Maybe they didn't research  Trump all that much.

Now all of Trump's faults have been on a loudspeaker to the entire world for the last four years.  But without a catastrophe he would have won.

There is something deeply wrong with this country.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 05, 2020, 10:21:47 PM
I won't be satisfied by a victory this narrow, especially not with Republicans retaining the Senate. There is inherent value to the Oval Office not being occupied by a literal piece of shit who revels in his IRL villainy, but I was hoping for a definitive repudiation of Trump's presidency. I can't believe that there are this many Americans looking at the state of our country and apparently saying, "Yes, this is acceptable. Four more years of this, please."

And I'm not willing to take it for granted that Biden has won yet.

We live in a shit country. That's really all there is to it. We can now confidently box in nearly three quarters of the country (people who voted for Trump or a third party, and people eligible to vote that chose not to) as either a despicable asshole or just an unrelenting idiot. The idiots can't help it, obviously, though I do think there's a lot of willful ignorance out there; most people just don't even care about politics.

This is the country we live in, a country largely defined by its ignorance, greed, bigotry, xenophobia, and desperate need to hold onto them guns. Yeah, it's depressing.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 05, 2020, 11:32:53 PM
You probably shouldn’t include minors in your polemic.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 05, 2020, 11:49:32 PM
You probably shouldn’t include minors in your polemic.

I didn't really, I made it clear I was talking about people who can vote... but anyway, why not? Minors grow up, and most of them will grow up to be assholes or idiots in this country too. The cycle will repeat. Is it reaching for me to suggest that Barron Trump will likely grow up to be as much of an ignorant piece of shit as his parents and half-siblings? Assholes and morons are assholes and morons no matter how old they are. The kids of today are nothing more than the ignorant cunts of tomorrow, for the most part.

We've been a shit country for most of our existence; what this election demonstrates, more than anything else, is that it's nothing but empty idealism to think that we live in some kind of more enlightened time.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on November 06, 2020, 12:17:00 AM
I won't be satisfied by a victory this narrow, especially not with Republicans retaining the Senate. There is inherent value to the Oval Office not being occupied by a literal piece of shit who revels in his IRL villainy, but I was hoping for a definitive repudiation of Trump's presidency. I can't believe that there are this many Americans looking at the state of our country and apparently saying, "Yes, this is acceptable. Four more years of this, please."

And I'm not willing to take it for granted that Biden has won yet.
Jesus said turn the other cheek, not drop your Smith & Wesson. Peter whacked off an ear. Having a weapon at the ready as Jesus instructed (The sword is a symbol representing the power of God to fight the influences of evil and bring people to repentance, for it has “divine power to destroy strongholds” (2 Cor 10:4 ESV)) is a way to combat the evil that has infiltrated our lives. I can't believe anyone couldn't believe most, if not all, these politicians are as evil as Satan and his minions.

The rule of law says I can bare arms, God says combat EVIL, destroy strongholds.....

We live in a shit country. That's really all there is to it. We can now confidently box in nearly three quarters of the country (people who voted for Trump or a third party, and people eligible to vote that chose not to) as either a despicable asshole or just an unrelenting idiot. The idiots can't help it, obviously, though I do think there's a lot of willful ignorance out there; most people just don't even care about politics.

This is the country we live in, a country largely defined by its ignorance, greed, bigotry, xenophobia, and desperate need to hold onto them guns. Yeah, it's depressing.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 06, 2020, 01:14:40 AM
You probably shouldn’t include minors in your polemic.

I didn't really, I made it clear I was talking about people who can vote... but anyway, why not? Minors grow up, and most of them will grow up to be assholes or idiots in this country too. The cycle will repeat. Is it reaching for me to suggest that Barron Trump will likely grow up to be as much of an ignorant piece of shit as his parents and half-siblings? Assholes and morons are assholes and morons no matter how old they are. The kids of today are nothing more than the ignorant cunts of tomorrow, for the most part.

We've been a shit country for most of our existence; what this election demonstrates, more than anything else, is that it's nothing but empty idealism to think that we live in some kind of more enlightened time.

Ah sorry. I was confused.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 06, 2020, 02:20:12 PM
Well unless Trump manages to use the Supreme Court to steal it, Biden has won.

People seem to think he won't accomplish anything because the Republicans are likely retaining hold of the Senate. I almost hope so; I want to see if Joe lives up to his promises of trying to compromise with the other side. Maybe two years of Republican obstruction in the face of Biden's sincere attempts to reach out to them and accomplish positive change will disgust enough people that we can flip it in the next midterm.

Of course that might hinge on too many of the American people not being ignorant assholes for it to be feasible. Maybe I'm not giving up hope just yet.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 06, 2020, 02:22:10 PM
Well unless Trump manages to use the Supreme Court to steal it, Biden has won.

People seem to think he won't accomplish anything because the Republicans are likely retaining hold of the Senate. I almost hope so; I want to see if Joe lives up to his promises of trying to compromise with the other side. Maybe two years of Republican obstruction in the face of Biden's sincere attempts to reach out to them and accomplish positive change will disgust enough people that we can flip it in the next midterm.

Theoretically, if the Dems win both runoffs in GA, then they will have a Senate deadlock and the deciding vote.  I would like to see some bipartisan policy making though.  Something the country needs, desperately.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 06, 2020, 02:33:59 PM
Well unless Trump manages to use the Supreme Court to steal it, Biden has won.

People seem to think he won't accomplish anything because the Republicans are likely retaining hold of the Senate. I almost hope so; I want to see if Joe lives up to his promises of trying to compromise with the other side. Maybe two years of Republican obstruction in the face of Biden's sincere attempts to reach out to them and accomplish positive change will disgust enough people that we can flip it in the next midterm.

Of course that might hinge on too many of the American people not being ignorant assholes for it to be feasible. Maybe I'm not giving up hope just yet.

Probably but the margins are razer thin.  700 in Georgia.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 06, 2020, 02:42:43 PM
PA has swung huge for Biden, and AZ and NV are still his to win.  The mail in voting has been 4:1 for Biden in PA and his lead will likely widen.  Recounts rarely yield large vote swings, so unless there is actual evidence of fraud, then Trump is likely done.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on November 06, 2020, 06:23:48 PM
 QFS blockchain encryption codes

If every ballot was watermarked, Biden choo choo train is a world of hurt. Peeps going to jail. Trump out smarted the losers with da sting.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 06, 2020, 06:40:33 PM
No, the ballots have not been watermarked. Don't be stupid.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/bogus-qanon-claim-that-mail-in-ballots-are-illegitimate/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 06, 2020, 07:00:12 PM
No, the ballots have not been watermarked. Don't be stupid.

Uhh...

https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/news/10346-ballots-are-secure-knowledge-on-vote-by-mail-is

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 06, 2020, 07:24:21 PM
The context of what I said speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on November 06, 2020, 07:31:38 PM
I dont see what the big "AHA" moment is here... IF there were fake ballots entered, those will be uncovered in the inevitable investigations that will be initiated shortly. And IF there are fraudulent ballots, they will be eliminated and the FBI(?) will investigate their source and hopefully press charges.

So far I haven't heard of any evidence suggesting this has actually happened...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 06, 2020, 08:21:13 PM
The context of what I said speaks for itself.

What context is that? You said that the ballots have not been watermarked. They have been.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 06, 2020, 08:27:36 PM
No, the ballots have not been watermarked. Don't be stupid.

Uhh...

https://www.law.upenn.edu/live/news/10346-ballots-are-secure-knowledge-on-vote-by-mail-is

    "Ballots, like money, are printed on special fraud-resistant paper, with particular size, thickness, weight, texture, color, and formats made to exact specifications. Furthermore, the paper is impressed with unique identifiers, such as watermarks, that certify it as an official ballot."
Mine was not.
I can assure you mine has no water mark, special paper, texture, color, etc...  Although it was very exact in its specification: A4.


However, to further prod:
If these ballots are specially made (and I'm agreeing they are) then Trump has nothing to worry about.  It should be very very easy to spot Biden frauds.  So really, if there are frauds, the thousands of Republican pollsters should have caught it by now and it would have made national news.  Yeah?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 06, 2020, 08:35:02 PM
The context of what I said speaks for itself.

What context is that? You said that the ballots have not been watermarked. They have been.

You're usually better than this, Tom. Are you this rattled about Biden's likely victory?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on November 06, 2020, 08:42:17 PM
Is it too soon to point out the fact that with these razor-tight margins, Donnie really could have used the 240k votes of seniors who his actions and inactions as president failed over the last ~8 months?

Is that incredibly insensitive to point out, or is this (tentative) result a kind of justice?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 06, 2020, 08:46:31 PM
Is it too soon to point out the fact that with these razor-tight margins, Donnie really could have used the 240k votes of seniors who his actions and inactions as president failed over the last ~8 months?

Is that incredibly insensitive to point out, or is this (tentative) result a kind of justice?

I said this a long time ago. Republicans skew older; the average Fox News viewer is retirement age. Trump and his cronies actively murdered what might have actually ended up being a consequential part of his own constituency.

Fuck whether it's insensitive to say or not, it's hilariously ironic.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 06, 2020, 10:06:08 PM
The context of what I said speaks for itself.

What context is that?

This context:

QFS blockchain encryption codes

If every ballot was watermarked, Biden choo choo train is a world of hurt. Peeps going to jail. Trump out smarted the losers with da sting.

The secret watermarks that are going to prove that Biden and the Democrats produced a bunch of fake ballots don't exist. That's what J-Man was talking about, and that's what I was talking about. To interject with "but ballots do have watermarks" is a quibble and does not contribute to the discussion.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 07, 2020, 12:07:31 AM
Quote
The secret watermarks that are going to prove that Biden and the Democrats produced a bunch of fake ballots don't exist. That's what J-Man was talking about, and that's what I was talking about. To interject with "but ballots do have watermarks" is a quibble and does not contribute to the discussion.

There are watermarks and security features on the ballots to prevent fake ballots, though. Are you arguing that J-Man claimed that one organization was putting on those security features when it may have been another organization?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on November 07, 2020, 12:09:06 AM
I'm saying that the conspiracy theory he's referring to is nonsense. There's no secret watermark sting about to bust the Democrats.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 07, 2020, 12:27:22 AM
You're behind on your conspiracy theories, Tom, I'm disappointed. J-Man was specifically referring to a nutty QAnon claim about ultra secret watermarks put on ballots by the Trump campaign to catch them cheating Dems. Look it up, I'm sure you'll be posting about it soon yourself!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 07, 2020, 12:41:48 AM
You're behind on your conspiracy theories, Tom, I'm disappointed. J-Man was specifically referring to a nutty QAnon claim about ultra secret watermarks put on ballots by the Trump campaign to catch them cheating Dems. Look it up, I'm sure you'll be posting about it soon yourself!

November surprise!  There are terabytes of evidence for it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on November 07, 2020, 12:43:36 AM
You're all gonna feel real silly when the Democrats' fraud is exposed and Joe Biden is revealed to have personally fabricated all of those votes.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 07, 2020, 12:49:27 AM
I'm saying that the conspiracy theory he's referring to is nonsense. There's no secret watermark sting about to bust the Democrats.

The purpose of putting on the watermarks and security features is literally to make a sting to bust fraudsters. What do you mean there is no secret sting?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 07, 2020, 12:53:02 AM
I'm saying that the conspiracy theory he's referring to is nonsense. There's no secret watermark sting about to bust the Democrats.

The purpose of putting on the watermarks and security features is literally to make a sting to bust fraudsters. What do you mean there is no secret sting?

They aren't put on there by the Trump administration, Tom. That's what is being claimed.

Umm... Have you been drinking? Rough couple days there?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 07, 2020, 12:55:08 AM
I'm saying that the conspiracy theory he's referring to is nonsense. There's no secret watermark sting about to bust the Democrats.

The purpose of putting on the watermarks and security features is literally to make a sting to bust fraudsters. What do you mean there is no secret sting?

You know, the whole thing going around about the USPS patent to use blockchain and watermarked ballots as a premeditated sting operation by Trump to nab democrat fraudsters, right?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on November 07, 2020, 01:16:47 AM
What do we know? Biden did NOT win by a landslide, Trump continues to outlast, out play, most, and Chris Stapletons "starting over" sounds rather fitting. It will be #1. And we're gonna REROLL...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3svABDnmio&list=RDA3svABDnmio&start_radio=1&t=0

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 07, 2020, 01:21:53 AM
The purpose of watermarks and security features is to create a premeditated sting to bust fraudsters. Why should it matter which organization put them on the ballots? You guys are just arguing about which organization put the security features on them. Pretty weak argument.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 07, 2020, 01:24:07 AM
The purpose of watermarks and security features is to create a premeditated sting to bust fraudsters. Why should it matter which organization put them on the ballots?

Where did somebody say it should?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on November 07, 2020, 01:34:31 AM
If they watermarked them and it is revealed that there are bogus ballots out there, then find them, DIScount them, and charge those responsible. Adjust the counts accordingly. No one is saying that fake ballots should count... a lot of us are skeptical that there is such a conspiracy afoot, rather than just...a shit load of americans who got sick and tired of that fat orange tweet machine and just said no to four more years of this crap
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 07, 2020, 03:00:36 AM
For the record, Joe might very well win by a landslide, at least as far as Trump is concerned. If he gets PA, NV, AZ, and GA, that would be 306, which was what Trump got four years ago, which Trump considered a landslide victory. So...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on November 07, 2020, 03:13:02 AM
The thought of him losing by the same 'landslide' he beat Hillary by, despite losing the popular vote... just amazing.

Still early though.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 07, 2020, 03:21:01 AM
The thought of him losing by the same 'landslide' he beat Hillary by, despite losing the popular vote... just amazing.

Still early though.

Can you imagine? He'll love it. And it's against the worst presidential candidate in American history (again, Trump's perspective)! How humiliating for him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 07, 2020, 04:44:00 PM
AP just called PA for Biden.

He won.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 10, 2020, 09:37:12 PM
I love the rhetoric I keep seeing that Trump's followers won't recognize Biden as president because of Trump's recent efforts to deligitimize the results. Like they were ever going to embrace any Democrat as president, lol.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 10, 2020, 09:43:29 PM
I love the rhetoric I keep seeing that Trump's followers won't recognize Biden as president because of Trump's recent efforts to deligitimize the results. Like they were ever going to embrace any Democrat as president, lol.

I fear that this is just gonna be the cycle:

Republican wins - "Support your Presidnet!"
Democrat wins - "He's not MY president!"

America is just so full of hypocryts that it just doesn't matter who wins anymore: Half the nation is gonna hate him.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 11, 2020, 03:20:06 PM
Chris Wallace during the first debate: “Will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified?” Joe Biden: “Yes.”

Whoops.

Video: https://twitter.com/SocialM85897394/status/1326483692202635265

(https://i.imgur.com/Z1DZxYV.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 11, 2020, 03:24:33 PM
Chris Wallace during the first debate: “Will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified?” Joe Biden: “Yes.”

Whoops.

https://twitter.com/SocialM85897394/status/1326483692202635265

(https://i.imgur.com/Z1DZxYV.jpg)

I am going to pull from your playbook: it was certified by the media who are independent of Biden.

Now please throw all the rebuttals that we shower you with when you make similarly terrible rationalizations.

On the other hand...  Who gives a fuck if Biden either changed his mind about that or forgot he said that?  I mean it's not like he is bragging about walking unnannounced in to the Miss Teen America dressing room or grabbing women by the pussy, is it?  Surely you can admit that Trump has made much worse ethical violations?  Surely.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 11, 2020, 03:27:58 PM
Is Tom the first known victim of BDS?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 11, 2020, 03:34:11 PM
Is Tom the first known victim of BDS?

Nah, go have a look on Reddit and he has many compatriots.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 11, 2020, 04:00:25 PM
Is Tom the first known victim of BDS?
Nah, go have a look on Reddit and he has many compatriots.
Unfortunately, things could get pretty messy in the US and Trump is just adding fuel to the fire.
If...well, let's face it, when Trump's team's legal challenges are laughed out of court you'd like to think that people like Tom would think
"Oh, OK. Well maybe Trump was full of shit then and there was no widespread fraud that robbed Trump of a second term".

But you know what's going to happen. Trump will simply double down and say that the courts are "in on it" or evidence has been suppressed or do anything other to admit that he just lost bigly. And because of that his supporters will believe the same. Trump will continue to believe he was robbed and that means his supporters will believe that they were robbed.

And 70 million people - or a percentage of them - not just feeling pissed off about the result but actively feeling like they've been cheated out of the president they wanted is a recipe for a pretty toxic atmosphere.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 11, 2020, 04:18:56 PM
Is Tom the first known victim of BDS?
Nah, go have a look on Reddit and he has many compatriots.
Unfortunately, things could get pretty messy in the US and Trump is just adding fuel to the fire.
If...well, let's face it, when Trump's team's legal challenges are laughed out of court you'd like to think that people like Tom would think
"Oh, OK. Well maybe Trump was full of shit then and there was no widespread fraud that robbed Trump of a second term".

But you know what's going to happen. Trump will simply double down and say that the courts are "in on it" or evidence has been suppressed or do anything other to admit that he just lost bigly. And because of that his supporters will believe the same. Trump will continue to believe he was robbed and that means his supporters will believe that they were robbed.

And 70 million people - or a percentage of them - not just feeling pissed off about the result but actively feeling like they've been cheated out of the president they wanted is a recipe for a pretty toxic atmosphere.

I agree, this is going to get worse before it gets better.  I personally would like everyone to cool their jets.  The EC doesn't cast their votes until Dec. 14th anyway, so despite Trump's break with decorum and seemingly undeniable loss in the election, it still isn't a legal win yet.  If the responses could be kept to the easy debunking of Trump's actual legal challenges, or reminders that Trump's rhetoric is simply that, the climate might be a little cooler.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: crutonius on November 11, 2020, 07:07:11 PM
It's almost certainly a bunch of noise.  But still... I was really hoping to be done with Trump nonsense forever but I guess that'll have to wait 70 days.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 11, 2020, 08:19:44 PM
It's almost certainly a bunch of noise.  But still... I was really hoping to be done with Trump nonsense forever but I guess that'll have to wait 70 days.

Once the electoral college votes are allocated it’s all done for Trump.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 13, 2020, 09:13:34 PM
China congratulate Biden

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54871890

Even they can see through Trump’s bullshit now.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 14, 2020, 07:33:29 AM
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/final-states-called-biden-s-projected-electoral-college-victory-matches-n1247766

Well, it's official (barring something really unlikely in the Georgia recount). Biden won with 306 electoral votes, the same number that Trump got in 2016.

That means Trump officially lost by a landslide against the worst presidential candidate in American history*.

*Trump's own assessment
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 14, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
It’s not official. State counts haven’t been certified and the Electoral College hasn’t cast their votes.

It’s pretty obvious what will happen, but 2020 might have another surprise for us mortals.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 14, 2020, 01:27:33 PM
Fine, almost officially.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 14, 2020, 01:33:29 PM
Fine, almost officially.
Just another month ish.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Crudblud on November 14, 2020, 01:39:36 PM
I have a couple of questions for people more versed in the minute detail of the US democratic process than I. Could unpledged/faithless electors give Trump the win? Also why is the EC so amazingly retarded as to permit electors to vote contrary to the state they're supposed to represent?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 14, 2020, 01:49:17 PM
I have a couple of questions for people more versed in the minute detail of the US democratic process than I. Could unpledged/faithless electors give Trump the win? Also why is the EC so amazingly retarded as to permit electors to vote contrary to the state they're supposed to represent?

It’s theoretically possible but it would amount to a constructional crisis and fundamental breakdown of their democratic process. If that happened I would expect things to get extremely ugly. The key swing states have already made statements pledging that such an eventuality is not conceivable for them.

EDIT: There are also states with laws against faithless electors. PA and Georgia notably don’t.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on November 14, 2020, 02:06:00 PM
That's my understanding, technically it can happen but there's no real reason to think it will, and to be fair it would require a hell of a turnover since 36 electors would have to flip to give Trump the win.

On the other hand there were two electors who did flip in the last election, actually giving Trump only 304 electors, so I suppose anything is possible.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: crutonius on November 14, 2020, 06:40:05 PM
I have a couple of questions for people more versed in the minute detail of the US democratic process than I. Could unpledged/faithless electors give Trump the win? Also why is the EC so amazingly retarded as to permit electors to vote contrary to the state they're supposed to represent?

Going by a strict reading of the Constitution, yes.  Our votes for the president are just sort of a recommendation.  Technically Mike Bloomberg could have just bribed each member of the electoral college with 10 million a piece to make him president. 

I believe there are penalties against faithless voters but I don't think they're actually prevented from faithless voting.

To answer your second question, everyone knows it's ridiculous.  But the system works very well as affirmative action for republicans so they're loathe to change it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 07:56:54 AM
(https://www.courant.com/resizer/HcBZ_7HedKvkzA18JP7FEaEqKXc=/1200x0/top/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/GIQECXRUMBETNDAD5X6QWNZKBM.jpg)

Someone should tell Joe that according to Congressional intent and precedent set by President Clinton, that there there is no apparent President-Elect as of today.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/release/hice-gsa-administrator-must-adhere-to-constitution-past-precedent-in-determining-president-elect/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 08:13:22 AM
(https://www.courant.com/resizer/HcBZ_7HedKvkzA18JP7FEaEqKXc=/1200x0/top/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/tronc/GIQECXRUMBETNDAD5X6QWNZKBM.jpg)

Someone should tell Joe that according to Congressional intent and precedent set by President Clinton, that there there is no apparent President-Elect as of today.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/release/hice-gsa-administrator-must-adhere-to-constitution-past-precedent-in-determining-president-elect/

Biden Did Not Invent the ‘Office of President-Elect’
Quick Take
Social media posts falsely claim that former Vice President Joe Biden “invented the Office of President-elect.” Donald Trump and Barack Obama also used the term during their transitions to the presidency.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/biden-did-not-invent-the-office-of-president-elect/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 08:17:15 AM
There is such a thing as a President-Elect. Joe Biden just isn't it.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf

(https://i.imgur.com/y8SXmxf.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 08:22:53 AM
Your BDS is getting worse.
We both know that this term is commonly used when someone has been called to have won the election.
Pence and Trump are called "elect" when being introduced to the victory speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsvy10D5rtc
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 08:27:04 AM
The difference is that Hillary conceded. Read the quote again:

Quote
There is such a thing as a President-Elect. Joe Biden just isn't it.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf

(https://i.imgur.com/y8SXmxf.png)

ABC News Video Description: "Hillary Clinton formally and publicly conceded to Donald Trump this morning after an upset defeat in the presidential election."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khK9fIgoNjQ&ab_channel=ABCNews
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 08:52:01 AM
The difference is that Hillary conceded.
Yes. That is the difference. She conceded. Like every defeated candidate since forever, she acted like a grown up.
But while Trump continues to hold his breath like a toddler until things go his way, back in the real world literally everyone else knows Biden won and are calling him President Elect. World leaders have queued up to congratulate him, even China now.
Is Biden and the rest of the world supposed to just not do anything while the Toddler in Chief refuses to accept reality?

EDIT: Parallels with 2000 don't really work. That was a genuinely close contest which needed some sorting out.
This has been a landslide for Biden. He'll get 306 Electoral Votes - which Trump got last time and he called that a landslide, so...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 09:04:43 AM
There is such a thing as a President-Elect. Joe Biden just isn't it.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Letter-to-GSA-re-Transition-final-11.13.20-1.pdf

(https://i.imgur.com/y8SXmxf.png)

Joe Biden isn't the president elect simply according to Jody Hice's interpretation and request to the GSA in a letter. A legal precedent was not set in 2000. Hice is making an argument. That's all.

And there are differing opinions on what occurred in 2000:

The Law of Presidential Transitions and the 2000Election
The ability of the incumbent administration to manipulate the Act for political purpose and to thereby undermine the transition efforts of a rival party is certain to tempt future administrations. The Act originally intended that the determination of a President-elect be a relatively simply matter, one to be ascertained solely by examining whether one candidate had earned an electoral college majority. As the sponsor of the Act observed, the 1960 election— one at least as close, contentious, and uncertain as the 2000 election—presented no problems in ascertaining an apparent winner.
Nonetheless, the Administrator of GSA, inspired in large part by political pressures emanating from the White House, refused to recognize an apparent winner until after the Supreme Court ruled in favor of George Bush and after Al Gore conceded the election. In so doing, the Administrator violated the Act’s language and intent and undermined its policies as well, harming the Bush transition and the country as a whole in the process.
Although the Administrator’s actions clearly violated the Act, the Bush-Cheney transition team had little recourse to rectify the violation.

https://digitalcommons.law.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2031&context=lawreview
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 09:18:07 AM
Joe Biden isn't the president elect simply according to Jody Hice's interpretation and request to the GSA in a letter. A legal precedent was not set in 2000. Hice is making an argument. That's all.

Not according to the GSA. The government is refusing to recognize Joe Biden as President-Elect, provide intel briefings, or transition resources.

Another quote from that letter:

(https://i.imgur.com/Q0XmqCu.png)

Please provide the part in the Consecution where the media calls the president.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 09:23:41 AM
Why does any of this matter, Tom?
As usual you're just trying to derail this thread into minutiae of semantics and definitions.
Biden is acting like he won the election because pretty much everyone agrees he did. It wasn't close, either.
So, of course, he's gearing up to take office.
The only people who think there's some dispute about this are Trump and some of his more deluded supporters.
And tbh, I think even Trump secretly knows he lost, he's probably just doing this to fund raise from his supporters and create the support for whatever he wants to do next.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 09:30:35 AM
Why does any of this matter, Tom?
As usual you're just trying to derail this thread into minutiae of semantics and definitions.
Biden is acting like he won the election because pretty much everyone agrees he did. It wasn't close, either.
So, of course, he's gearing up to take office.
The only people who think there's some dispute about this are Trump and some of his more deluded supporters.
And tbh, I think even Trump secretly knows he lost, he's probably just doing this to fund raise from his supporters and create the support for whatever he wants to do next.

You must be confused. It's a statement from Congress's Committee of Oversight and Reform that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. The letter states that he is not President-Elect. Otherwise they would be telling the GSA to recognize Biden as President-Elect and give him the transition resources and intel briefings which he has requested and which other President-Elects have received.

(https://media.thedonald.win/post/AH6lHIRy.jpeg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 09:35:22 AM
Joe Biden isn't the president elect simply according to Jody Hice's interpretation and request to the GSA in a letter. A legal precedent was not set in 2000. Hice is making an argument. That's all.

Not according to the GSA. The government is refusing to recognize Joe Biden as President-Elect, provide intel briefings, or transition resources.

Another quote from that letter:

(https://i.imgur.com/Q0XmqCu.png)

Please provide the part in the Consecution where the media calls the president.

It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Here's what GSA is providing the incoming Biden administration even as it declines to recognize his president-elect status
"While it has not officially acknowledged him as the president-elect, the General Services Administration has been providing the incoming Biden administration with office space and other services as the Democratic nominee."
https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2020/11/13/gsa-reveals-mou-with-biden.html

The GSA isn't providing me with offices.

I don't even know what your point is. You don't like that Biden considers himself the President Elect? Good for you. Instead of someone needing to tell Joe he is not the president elect in some people's eyes, maybe someone should tell Donald to concede with his big boy pants on so we can get on with this peaceful transition of power which is far more of a precedent than any of these GSA transition interpretations.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 09:38:26 AM
Why does any of this matter, Tom?
As usual you're just trying to derail this thread into minutiae of semantics and definitions.
Biden is acting like he won the election because pretty much everyone agrees he did. It wasn't close, either.
So, of course, he's gearing up to take office.
The only people who think there's some dispute about this are Trump and some of his more deluded supporters.
And tbh, I think even Trump secretly knows he lost, he's probably just doing this to fund raise from his supporters and create the support for whatever he wants to do next.

You must be confused. It's a statement from Congress's Committee of Oversight and Reform that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. The letter states that he is not President-Elect. Otherwise they would be telling the GSA to recognize Biden as President-Elect and give him the transaction resources and intel briefings which he has requested and which other President-Elects have received.

(https://media.thedonald.win/post/AH6lHIRy.jpeg)

How is an appeal letter from Jody Hise equal to "Congress has made it official"? Does Jody represent all of Congress?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 09:38:37 AM
It's a statement from Congress's Committee of Oversight and Reform that Joe Biden is not President-Elect.
OK. So what?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 09:39:27 AM
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.

No, Jody Hice did. Not "Congress".
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 09:56:49 AM
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.

No, Jody Hice did. Not "Congress".

Hice is writing as a ranking member on behalf of the Congressional Committee on Oversight and Reform. They put it up on the front page of their website: https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/

(https://i.imgur.com/I8rHiVA.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 09:57:38 AM
Quote
It's a letter trying to make a case for something. So what?

Congress made a statement from its oversight committee that Joe Biden is not President-Elect. So he's not President-Elect.

No, Jody Hice did. Not "Congress".
I honestly don't know what Tom's issue is here. Were the situation reversed we all know Trump would be going round calling himself President Elect, almost certainly in a more bombastic way than Biden is.
And what is Biden supposed to be doing? It's about 2 months till the inauguration, there needs to be a transfer of power.
Is he supposed to just sit around doing nothing until Trump finishes losing all his spurious cases?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 16, 2020, 10:52:51 AM
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

On the other side is Trump who has been reduced to litigating fucking terrible cases to try and swing a few hundred votes that won’t make a difference.

His inability to accept defeat is firing everyone up to the point that militias are vowing to resist any laws Biden passes because “the election was stolen”.

It wasn’t stolen, Trump just can not accept defeat. Because you have your identity wrapped up in Trump, you can’t either. I suppose once the Electoral College makes their decision on Dec 14th you will have some new complaint.

Only one week until Pennsylvania and Michigan verify their results. Time is running out.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 16, 2020, 01:37:07 PM
The Georgia recount continues with only minor shifts so far:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/georgia-recount-votes-biden-trump-results-b1723475.html

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 03:50:19 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.

https://youtu.be/W9XyTDaVhVQ
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on November 16, 2020, 04:06:02 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.

https://youtu.be/W9XyTDaVhVQ

No, they report on the results from each state, assume the electors will abide by the law, and project that the incumbent (now lame duck) will accept the will of the people and contribute to the shifting of power. Somehow those last two points arent a given in this crazy world were living in now!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 04:24:04 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.

They project the winner in every election. Literally the only difference right now is we have a toddler in the White House who can't accept he lost, and some of his supporters are gullible enough to believe him and keep sending him money.
What actual point are you making here? That Biden shouldn't call himself President Elect? Everyone else is calling him that.
Or do you object to the fact he's acting like he's going to be the next President? Firstly, pretty much everyone can see he is going to be and secondly what's he supposed to do? Wait until Trump's tantrum blows itself out before doing anything? It seems sensible that he would be preparing to govern as that's not an overnight job. If Trump's right and he did really win (spoiler: he isn't and he didn't) then no real harm done. Better that than not leaving enough time for a transition while Trump continues to stamp his feet in defiance of reality.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 16, 2020, 04:35:14 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.


Really great comment.  Unfortunately for you, it has nothing to do with what I said.  You can go look at state by state results that are self-reported and come to the same conclusion.  It just needs a rubber stamp now.  None of Trump's pathetic and delusional lawsuits will change the result.  You best hope is that the Electoral College completely betrays the will of the people and your democracy.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on November 16, 2020, 04:47:44 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.

They project the winner in every election. Literally the only difference right now is we have a toddler in the White House who can't accept he lost, and some of his supporters are gullible enough to believe him and keep sending him money.
What actual point are you making here? That Biden shouldn't call himself President Elect? Everyone else is calling him that.

It doesn't matter if people are calling him the President-Elect. He's not the President-Elect. The issue is still in contention and the Congressional Oversight Committee and the GSA has confirmed that Biden has not met the necessary threshold. Do let us know when he is the President-Elect.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 04:56:41 PM
Quote
Congrats Tom, you really owned the libs on this one. There is dispute over whether he is officially president-elect. On the one side, you have every race being called and barring some fire hose of terabytes of data, Biden has won one of the most decisive victories over an incumbent in history.

Incorrect. The media does not decide who wins.

They project the winner in every election. Literally the only difference right now is we have a toddler in the White House who can't accept he lost, and some of his supporters are gullible enough to believe him and keep sending him money.
What actual point are you making here? That Biden shouldn't call himself President Elect? Everyone else is calling him that.

It doesn't matter if people are calling him the President-Elect. He's not the President-Elect. The issue is still in contention and the Congressional Oversight Committee and the GSA has confirmed that Biden has not met the necessary threshold. Do let us know when he is the President-Elect.

Do Jody Hise and the GSA determine who the president is?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 16, 2020, 05:02:16 PM
It doesn't matter if people are calling him the President-Elect. He's not the President-Elect.

Only because Trump has a severe truth allergy.

Quote
The issue is still in contention

lol

Quote
and the Congressional Oversight Committee and the GSA has confirmed that Biden has not met the necessary threshold. Do let us know when he is the President-Elect.

When Trump does the decent thing and concedes or once the Electoral College votes I suppose.  I mean, the term president elect isn't really an official designation anyway.  The GSA has specific definitions for their own purposes, but its also convention to name the apparent winner of the election President-Elect.  So... He is President-Elect, just not to the GSA because they have to follow their regulations.  But make no mistake, Biden has won the election.  There is no Kraken coming with terabytes of firehose data.  Trump lost, he is just so immature and narcissistic that he won't admit it publicly.

All hail the new God-Emperor Biden!  4 years may he reign!

He won by a landslide!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on November 16, 2020, 05:03:05 PM
Do Jody Hise and the GSA determine who the president is?

Of course not.  It's a democracy, despite what the Trump campaign wants.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 05:11:26 PM
It doesn't matter if people are calling him the President-Elect. He's not the President-Elect.

OK.
Even if you're technically correct, so what?
What is your actual point here?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on November 16, 2020, 05:15:14 PM
Do Jody Hise and the GSA determine who the president is?

Of course not.  It's a democracy, despite what the Trump campaign wants.

Precisely. The GSA 'ascertains' whether to consider the candidate the "President Elect" or not for their sole purpose of providing transition funding and resources. They have yet to formally ascertain this. And good for them. I have no idea what Tom is trying to make of this. That Biden shouldn't be printing placards that say "President Elect" on them because the GSA hasn't recognized that designation yet? If that's his issue, well then so be it. It doesn't change the fact that Biden is our President. Although I know he wishes it would. Desperation on full display.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 05:18:39 PM
I can't begin to imagine why Trump is so desperately trying to cling to power...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54716550
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on November 16, 2020, 05:18:59 PM


All hail the new God-Emperor Biden!  4 years may he reign!

He won by a landslide!

Praise be unto him and to all those who bask in the glorious light cast down from he unto us. Join me and gaze upon our new supreme overlord, for he is good. And let him smell unto us and our children, for we smell good. And may he strip from us the burdens of our Christianity and replace it with the satanic praise for paedophilia that Grant's him life, so that we may sustain him too, for he is good.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on November 16, 2020, 05:22:59 PM
Opportunity for a cross-over episode of 2 conspiracy theories here

https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/how-do-astronauts-vote-space
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on November 16, 2020, 07:26:50 PM
...precedent set by President Clinton

Since when do you listen to or accept anything Clinton says or does? :P
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on December 06, 2020, 07:36:23 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/06/politics/biden-trump-popularity-analysis/index.html

Biden is more popular than Trump has ever been since Trump announced his presidency.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on December 06, 2020, 08:02:12 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/06/politics/biden-trump-popularity-analysis/index.html

Biden is more popular than Trump has ever been since Trump announced his presidency.

All democrats + all trump hating republicans is alot.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on December 07, 2020, 01:12:47 AM
THIS CLAIM ABOUT SLEEPY JO BEING ELECTED BY A LANDSLIDE IS DISPUTED...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 07, 2020, 01:13:58 AM
THIS CLAIM ABOUT SLEEPY JO BEING ELECTED BY A LANDSLIDE IS DISPUTED...

Not really. I mean, yes, people are saying “nuh-uh”, but they are wrong.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on December 07, 2020, 01:56:47 AM
THIS CLAIM ABOUT SLEEPY JO BEING ELECTED BY A LANDSLIDE IS DISPUTED...

If all things hold as they are, Biden with 306 Electoral votes, according to Trump, it is a landslide:

"In an interview with Fox News host Chris Wallace in Dec. 2016, Trump dismissed a question about Russian interference in the election by boasting “we had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the electoral college, I guess the final number is 306 and [Clinton] is down to a very low number.”"

I guess we'll just wait and see where the electoral college lands.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on December 07, 2020, 01:03:10 PM
Biden. What a guy...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/06/politics/biden-trump-popularity-analysis/index.html
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on December 07, 2020, 02:12:07 PM
Biden. What a guy...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/06/politics/biden-trump-popularity-analysis/index.html
It's even funnier now than back when Roundy posted it yesterday in the same thread
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on December 07, 2020, 02:16:22 PM
Biden. What a guy...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/06/politics/biden-trump-popularity-analysis/index.html
It's even funnier now than back when Roundy posted it yesterday in the same thread
I'm a round earther, you can't expect me to be able to read  :-[
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 07, 2020, 02:21:20 PM
Biden. What a guy...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/06/politics/biden-trump-popularity-analysis/index.html
It's even funnier now than back when Roundy posted it yesterday in the same thread

Ah memories.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on December 11, 2020, 01:34:36 AM
Joe Biden is winning with a Pan by his side....
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on December 11, 2020, 07:23:33 AM
Biden. What a guy...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/11/joe-biden-and-kamala-harris-named-time-magazines-2020-person-of-the-year
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on December 11, 2020, 07:26:48 AM
Biden. What a guy...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/11/joe-biden-and-kamala-harris-named-time-magazines-2020-person-of-the-year

Oh god damnit...

This is just like the fucking Nobel Prize Obama got just for being elected.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on December 11, 2020, 07:30:58 AM
In b4 someone points out Hitler was once their person of the year.

This isn’t really an honour, as such. It’s just the person that they declare to have been the most influential in that year, for good or ill.

Given that Biden is about to become the POTUS (yes he is, Tom), I guess he’s a pretty good shout for this year. Although Covid-19 will be gutted not to have been chosen.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on December 11, 2020, 10:03:43 AM
I thought Fauci would be a shoe-in, personally.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on December 11, 2020, 04:15:33 PM
Biden. What a guy...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/11/joe-biden-and-kamala-harris-named-time-magazines-2020-person-of-the-year

Oh god damnit...

This is just like the fucking Nobel Prize Obama got just for being elected.

It's perfectly normal for the winner of the presidential election to be named Person of the Year, and has in fact become a predictable pattern since the beginning of this century. Who's more influential than the next President of the United States? What has me intrigued is the decision to include the vice president, which hasn't happened before. I wonder if they're assuming that Biden will die and Harris will take over at some point.

I thought Fauci would be a shoe-in, personally.

Shoo-in. As in, someone is being shooed in. It has nothing to do with shoes.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 11, 2020, 04:20:55 PM
Maybe it’s his age, but it’s also her being the first woman to be elected to the office which warrants it I think.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on December 11, 2020, 07:00:42 PM
I thought Fauci would be a shoe-in, personally.

Shoo-in. As in, someone is being shooed in. It has nothing to do with shoes.

Thanks for the lesson, Professor Knowseverything, we are all enriched by your presence on the forums.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Снупс on December 11, 2020, 07:43:13 PM
I mean, I appreciate being corrected on grammar. I don’t like using the incorrect spelling of words, and it bothers me when someone knows I’m misusing them but doesn’t tell me. So...

Also, I’m curious to see what it’s like having a VP that doesn’t make me want to die every time I hear them give a speech.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on December 13, 2020, 10:12:33 PM
Did Biden nail Obamas underage daughter? Chicoms own this country.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 14, 2020, 12:16:06 AM
Did Biden nail Obamas underage daughter? Chicoms own this country.

Trump lost an election to him too. Lol
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on December 14, 2020, 06:02:56 PM
Did Biden nail Obamas underage daughter? Chicoms own this country.

Trump lost an election to him too. Lol
Actually NO, Trump won by the landslide. The proof now is floating in and forming. Many will go to jail now and the majority will not seat Biden as President now. Big Fraud with Dominion and other countries with internet hooked machines.

Dems Cheat....Hang em high for TREASON
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 14, 2020, 06:59:23 PM
Actually NO, Trump won by the landslide. The proof now is floating in and forming. Many will go to jail now and the majority will not seat Biden as President now. Big Fraud with Dominion and other countries with internet hooked machines.

Dems Cheat....Hang em high for TREASON

It's easy to believe ridiculous things when you don't require proof.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on December 14, 2020, 07:16:12 PM
Actually NO, Trump won by the landslide. The proof now is floating in and forming. Many will go to jail now and the majority will not seat Biden as President now. Big Fraud with Dominion and other countries with internet hooked machines.

Dems Cheat....Hang em high for TREASON

It's easy to believe ridiculous things when you don't require proof.

We're sorry a Judge reviewed and redacted as needed while releasing the FRAUD today.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/michigan-judge-allows-release-forensic-report-fraud-allegations-dominion-voting-machines

"The lawsuit was initiated by Antrim County resident William Bailey. Circuit Judge Kevin Elsenheimer, a former Republican lawmaker, allowed Allied Securities Operation Group and Bailey to take forensic images of the county’s 22 tabulators and review other election-related material to ensure election integrity.

The forensic analysis has been under protective order. It could not be released prior to the Judge’s decision Monday, when Elsenheimer ordered the release with some redactions.

Antrim County has roughly 23,000 residents and the discovery that roughly 6,000 votes cast using the Dominion Voting Systems that should have gone to President Donald Trump went to Joe Biden without explanation triggered the ongoing investigation by Trump supporters.

The bizarre explanation that a failure to update voting software led to Joe Biden initially receiving those thousands of votes ahead of Trump in the Republican-leaning county wasn’t accepted by the majority of Trump supporters, nor many of the Michigan GOP>

If the forensic report is accurate on the irregularities, as well as other issues of alleged fraud regarding the Dominion Voting Systems used in XX states across the country, it may snowball to other state legislatures requesting audits of their systems as well."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on December 14, 2020, 07:16:54 PM
Did Biden nail Obamas underage daughter? Chicoms own this country.

Trump lost an election to him too. Lol
Actually NO, Trump won by the landslide. The proof now is floating in and forming. Many will go to jail now and the majority will not seat Biden as President now. Big Fraud with Dominion and other countries with internet hooked machines.

Dems Cheat....Hang em high for TREASON
Yeah. You’ve been saying this sort of nonsense for a month now. Back in the real world Trump has been laughed out of every court he’s gone near

https://newsthump.com/2020/12/14/donald-trump-presents-schrodingers-evidence-simultaneously-overwhelming-and-not-enough-to-convince-a-single-judge/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 14, 2020, 07:32:57 PM
Actually NO, Trump won by the landslide. The proof now is floating in and forming. Many will go to jail now and the majority will not seat Biden as President now. Big Fraud with Dominion and other countries with internet hooked machines.

Dems Cheat....Hang em high for TREASON

It's easy to believe ridiculous things when you don't require proof.

We're sorry a Judge reviewed and redacted as needed while releasing the FRAUD today.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/michigan-judge-allows-release-forensic-report-fraud-allegations-dominion-voting-machines

A judge decided to release the report, don't worry:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/14/michigan-judge-allows-release-report-antrim-county-voting/6537394002/

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on December 14, 2020, 08:05:15 PM
Actually NO, Trump won by the landslide. The proof now is floating in and forming. Many will go to jail now and the majority will not seat Biden as President now. Big Fraud with Dominion and other countries with internet hooked machines.

Dems Cheat....Hang em high for TREASON

It's easy to believe ridiculous things when you don't require proof.

We're sorry a Judge reviewed and redacted as needed while releasing the FRAUD today.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/michigan-judge-allows-release-forensic-report-fraud-allegations-dominion-voting-machines

A judge decided to release the report, don't worry:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/14/michigan-judge-allows-release-report-antrim-county-voting/6537394002/

You mean this is a whole lot of nothing? What a letdown.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on December 14, 2020, 08:07:53 PM
Kinda like the website without a few of us holding it up....blah blah blah
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 14, 2020, 08:11:18 PM
Yes where would we be without your brilliant contributions?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 14, 2020, 08:28:16 PM
Quote
A judge decided to release the report, don't worry:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/14/michigan-judge-allows-release-report-antrim-county-voting/6537394002/

You mean this is a whole lot of nothing? What a letdown.

Wrong.

https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482

(https://i.imgur.com/HOP86aE.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on December 14, 2020, 08:35:14 PM
Quote
A judge decided to release the report, don't worry:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/12/14/michigan-judge-allows-release-report-antrim-county-voting/6537394002/

You mean this is a whole lot of nothing? What a letdown.

Wrong.

https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482

(https://i.imgur.com/HOP86aE.png)

From my link:

Quote
But Erik Grill, an assistant attorney general representing Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, warned that the analysis is "inaccurate, incomplete and misleading."

But maybe you're right anyway, I guess we'll find out when we see how much this ends up impacting the results of the election.  :D
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on December 14, 2020, 08:49:45 PM
Wrong.

https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482

Looks like you’ve backed another winner

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/04/russell-james-ramsland-jr/affidavit-michigan-lawsuit-seeking-overturn-electi/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on December 14, 2020, 08:59:30 PM
Wrong.

https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482

Looks like you’ve backed another winner

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/dec/04/russell-james-ramsland-jr/affidavit-michigan-lawsuit-seeking-overturn-electi/

Yep, Ramsland is right up there with the Kracken's 'Spyder', a "cyber security expert" who turned out to be an Army motor pool mechanic. One who Powell referred to as a "Military Intelligence Expert" in affidavits, no less. 
At a certain point this is all just laughably embarrassing if it weren't for the sole purpose of this nonsense to undermine democracy at its core.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on December 14, 2020, 09:34:23 PM

Wrong.

https://twitter.com/IvanPentchoukov/status/1338505355463188482

(https://i.imgur.com/HOP86aE.png)


So is this how Trump managed to win in 2016?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 14, 2020, 09:57:25 PM
Are the people who say that the forensic report is wrong forensic auditors?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on December 14, 2020, 09:59:26 PM
Are the people who say that the forensic report is wrong forensic auditors?

Are the people who say the forensic report is right forensic auditors?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 14, 2020, 10:03:39 PM
Are the people who say that the forensic report is wrong forensic auditors?

Are the people who say the forensic report is right forensic auditors?

Yep. They hired a forensic auditing company.

https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf

Quote
I am part of the management team of Allied Security Operations Group, LLC,
(ASOG). ASOG is a group of globally engaged professionals who come from
various disciplines to include Department of Defense, Secret Service,
Department of Homeland Security, and the Central Intelligence Agency. It
provides a range of security services, but has a particular emphasis on
cybersecurity, open source investigation and penetration testing of networks. We
employ a wide variety of cyber and cyber forensic analysts. We have patents
pending in a variety of applications from novel network security applications to
SCADA (Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition) protection and safe browsing
solutions for the dark and deep web. For this report, I have relied on these
experts and resources.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 14, 2020, 10:08:18 PM

Yep. They hired a forensic auditing company.


People who write report agree with their own conclusions.  Brilliant.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on December 14, 2020, 10:12:00 PM
Are the people who say that the forensic report is wrong forensic auditors?

Are the people who say the forensic report is right forensic auditors?

Yep. They hired a forensic auditing company.

https://www.depernolaw.com/uploads/2/7/0/2/27029178/antrim_michigan_forensics_report_[121320]_v2_[redacted].pdf

Quote
I am part of the management team of Allied Security Operations Group, LLC,
(ASOG). ASOG is a group of globally engaged professionals who come from
various disciplines to include Department of Defense, Secret Service,
Department of Homeland Security, and the Central Intelligence Agency. It
provides a range of security services, but has a particular emphasis on
cybersecurity, open source investigation and penetration testing of networks. We
employ a wide variety of cyber and cyber forensic analysts. We have patents
pending in a variety of applications from novel network security applications to
SCADA (Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition) protection and safe browsing
solutions for the dark and deep web. For this report, I have relied on these
experts and resources.

Yeah, that's Ramsland's "company". There's no there there. There is zero information about anyone using ASOG for anything and it looks like it just came into being July of this year. Garbage.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on December 14, 2020, 10:13:07 PM
Are the people who say that the forensic report is wrong forensic auditors?
The person who says the forensic report is right has a history of cherry picking who they believe and how much regard they have for people’s qualifications depending on whether what’s being said agrees with their world view or not.

This person has already been thoroughly debunked.

But ok, if this is the horse you want to jump on now then fine. You’ve spent the last month pinning your hopes on all kinds of nonsense like this.
Meanwhile back in the real world the electoral college are voting for Joe Biden to be the next President as we speak.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 14, 2020, 10:25:38 PM
Are the people who say that the forensic report is wrong forensic auditors?
The person who says the forensic report is right has a history of cherry picking who they believe and how much regard they have for people’s qualifications depending on whether what’s being said agrees with their world view or not.

So that's a "no, they are not forensic auditors" then.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on December 14, 2020, 10:26:45 PM
From which university or college, Tom, would you accept a forensic auditing qualification? I might want to check the qualifications of those who are claimed here to be forensic auditors and those who are decried as not being so.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on December 14, 2020, 10:27:03 PM
Are the people who say that the forensic report is wrong forensic auditors?
The person who says the forensic report is right has a history of cherry picking who they believe and how much regard they have for people’s qualifications depending on whether what’s being said agrees with their world view or not.

So that's a "no, they are not forensic auditors" then.

Neither is Ramsland.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 14, 2020, 10:33:56 PM
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/electoral-college-vote-2020-biden-trump/index.html?tab=all

The Electoral College has voted for President-Elect Biden.

Here is how Trump can still win.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on December 14, 2020, 10:34:18 PM
Neither is Ramsland.
He’s whatever Tom wants him to be if he’s saying what Tom wants to hear.

Tom may allow himself a moment of self-awareness at this point and consider that all the other people whose “expertise” Tom has got excited about over the last month have proved to be full of shit. But I doubt it.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 14, 2020, 10:39:47 PM
Are the people who say that the forensic report is wrong forensic auditors?
The person who says the forensic report is right has a history of cherry picking who they believe and how much regard they have for people’s qualifications depending on whether what’s being said agrees with their world view or not.

So that's a "no, they are not forensic auditors" then.

Neither is Ramsland.

Does he say that he performed the audit himself, or does he say in the intro "For this report, I have relied on these experts and resources"?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tumeni on December 14, 2020, 10:44:32 PM
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/electoral-college-vote-2020-biden-trump/index.html?tab=all

The Electoral College has voted for President-Elect Biden.

Trump lost the EC vote in every state in which he contested the result. Per @MeidasTouch on Twitter
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on December 14, 2020, 10:49:02 PM
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/electoral-college-vote-2020-biden-trump/index.html?tab=all

The Electoral College has voted for President-Elect Biden.

Trump lost the EC vote in every state in which he contested the result. Per @MeidasTouch on Twitter
Wait. They didn’t stop the EC vote after Tom found a definitely valid report from someone which has cracked this whole thing wide open?
How strange.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on December 14, 2020, 10:52:35 PM
Are the people who say that the forensic report is wrong forensic auditors?
The person who says the forensic report is right has a history of cherry picking who they believe and how much regard they have for people’s qualifications depending on whether what’s being said agrees with their world view or not.

So that's a "no, they are not forensic auditors" then.

Neither is Ramsland.

Does he say that he performed the audit himself, or does he say in the intro "For this report, I have relied on these experts and resources"?

Tom.  As many conservatives said in 2016: he won.  Get over it and get behind your president.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on December 14, 2020, 11:07:24 PM
Are the people who say that the forensic report is wrong forensic auditors?
The person who says the forensic report is right has a history of cherry picking who they believe and how much regard they have for people’s qualifications depending on whether what’s being said agrees with their world view or not.

So that's a "no, they are not forensic auditors" then.

Neither is Ramsland.

Does he say that he performed the audit himself, or does he say in the intro "For this report, I have relied on these experts and resources"?

And who might those experts and resources be? Spyder?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 16, 2020, 05:52:32 PM
And who might those experts and resources be? Spyder?

They are experts which were accepted and appointed by the court to be experts. Sounds like denial.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on December 16, 2020, 05:57:49 PM
And who might those experts and resources be? Spyder?

They are experts which were accepted and appointed by the court to be experts. Sounds like denial.

Right, so who are they? And what court accepted and appointed them as experts? I might have missed where that happened?

What doesn't just sound like denial, but is actual denial, is your notion that Biden is not your new President.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on December 18, 2020, 11:07:36 AM
Sounds like denial.

Yeah, it's kind of pathetic. You should just accept that Joe is your next president and that nothing is going to change that.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on December 18, 2020, 06:33:16 PM
Is Biden a Chicom?

halt...don't move !

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-18/pentagon-chief-orders-pause-in-cooperation-with-biden-transition

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on December 18, 2020, 06:40:20 PM
Is Biden a Chicom?

halt...don't move !

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-18/pentagon-chief-orders-pause-in-cooperation-with-biden-transition

Ummm, so what? From your article:

"Miller described the halt in cooperation in a statement as having been “mutually agreed upon.” Axios, which reported on the move earlier, cited a defense official it didn’t identify as saying workers were feeling overwhelmed by the number of meetings.

“As of today, we have supported 139 interviews sessions, more than 200 DoD personnel, 161 requests for information, and disclosed thousands of pages of non-public and classified documents, exceeding prior transitions,” Miller said in his statement. “At no time has the department canceled or declined any interview.
”"

Seems like the DoD has spilled their guts to the transition team and are tired. I don't think they would have disclosed all of that for any other ridiculous reasons you have swirling around in your kraken head.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 18, 2020, 08:16:23 PM
DOD is too "overwhelmed"; pausing intelligence briefings for several weeks "for the holidays" lol

This leftist retired four star general seems to think that Team Biden is in danger:

https://twitter.com/mccaffreyr3/status/1339966295656124416

(https://i.imgur.com/45daFGj.png)

Quote
Miller described the halt in cooperation in a statement as having been “mutually agreed upon.”

This doesn't sound like it was "mutually agreed upon" to me:

(https://i.imgur.com/up1DBXZ.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 18, 2020, 08:27:51 PM
Yeah how ridiculous.  I mean, its not like they are dealing with a massive cyberattack or anything.  It MUST mean Trump is going to declared the winner any moment now.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on December 18, 2020, 08:35:46 PM
Yeah how ridiculous.  I mean, its not like they are dealing with a massive cyberattack or anything.  It MUST mean Trump is going to declared the winner any moment now.

Or that Trump has delayed this process by over a month, requiring an accelerated time table that, due to Trump failing to keep his administration's network secure, can't be met.  I mean, if I had a month before taking the presidency and was a month behind in starting up AND the people I needed were dealing with a massive cyber attack...  I'd be concerned too.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 19, 2020, 02:22:50 AM
Creating an 'accelerated timetable' apparently involves stopping intel briefings and participation with the Biden team for several weeks and providing disinformation about it.

https://www.govexec.com/management/2020/12/transition-roundup-confusion-over-pentagon-briefing-status-ig-council-publishes-transition-guide/170887/

(https://i.imgur.com/L4mGY1b.jpg)

Retired leftist Four Star General thinks that Biden Team is in danger. Pentagon officials 'reportedly stunned'.

https://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-officials-reportedly-stunned-acting-165434546.html

(https://i.imgur.com/ncOWk9a.png)

I guess the Military is simply ToO BuSy to inform the incoming president of national security issues.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Снупс on December 19, 2020, 02:43:49 AM
Well, since we know exactly how much to expect of all these things, barely a month to go until Biden's sworn in!  :)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on December 19, 2020, 03:19:30 AM
Leftists: "The Military would never get involved in the election or do anything to risk the win of our hero Joe Biden!"

https://twitter.com/sweettea4517/status/1339989150775296003

(https://i.imgur.com/ELCGCnz.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 19, 2020, 03:31:44 AM
Oh my god! Someone heard something from a guy who heard something from the mother of a soldier. They talked about a full parking lot!!! TRUMP WIIIIIINS!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on December 19, 2020, 04:44:12 AM
If the military were planning to do something as momentous as intervene in the transition process, keep their preferred president in office, and possibly even institute martial law, why would they be giving Biden advance notice by suddenly discontinuing his intel briefings? If random people on the Internet are able to figure out what's going on, I'm sure his team can too.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on December 19, 2020, 08:36:32 AM
If the military were planning to do something as momentous as intervene in the transition process, keep their preferred president in office, and possibly even institute martial law, why would they be giving Biden advance notice by suddenly discontinuing his intel briefings? If random people on the Internet are able to figure out what's going on, I'm sure his team can too.

In fairness, Tom Bishop is the greatest Flat Earth Researcher of our time.  A feat no one on Biden's team can claim.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on December 19, 2020, 10:01:57 AM
the incoming president
Finally!
Pleased to see you’ve reached the “acceptance” stage of grief. Good for you.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 19, 2020, 01:52:55 PM
If the military were planning to do something as momentous as intervene in the transition process, keep their preferred president in office, and possibly even institute martial law, why would they be giving Biden advance notice by suddenly discontinuing his intel briefings? If random people on the Internet are able to figure out what's going on, I'm sure his team can too.

The military doesn’t declare martial law. That’s an executive power. This would be a military coup. It’s truly a sign how low Trump supporters have sunk that they would welcome a military coup over accepting that Trump just lost.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on December 20, 2020, 06:15:33 PM
I was wrong. The president can not suspend Habeas Corpus, it has to be done by the legislative branch. Trump trying to do so could easily be construed as treason.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on December 23, 2020, 01:12:40 AM
Did the latest stimulus require we all get crack and pipes like the Hunt? I want my free dope and a couple million tax free bucks.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Clyde Frog on December 23, 2020, 01:27:02 AM
Did the latest stimulus require we all get crack and pipes like the Hunt? I want my free dope and a couple million tax free bucks.
Well the thing is, it's part of this whole social welfare thing, so it's probably best you don't actually cash the check.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on January 05, 2021, 04:40:11 PM
Dems lie and cheat....Trump won it all !!!

This nutjob could be pres...Fkn A were soooo screwed if that happens.

"In October, Vice Presidential candidate Kamala Harris claimed she told her mother that she wanted "fweedom" when she was a child and had just fallen out of her stroller at a civil rights march in Oakland, California, in an interview with ELLE magazine where she appeared on the cover.

Activist Andray Domise pointed out that Harris' story was lifted from a January 1965, Playboy interview with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. about a girl in Birmingham, Alabama."

https://thepostmillennial.com/kamala-harris-lifts-her-fwee-dom-story-from-mlk-interview-in-playboy
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 05, 2021, 07:32:30 PM
Dems lie and cheat....Trump won it all !!!

This nutjob could be pres...Fkn A were soooo screwed if that happens.

"In October, Vice Presidential candidate Kamala Harris claimed she told her mother that she wanted "fweedom" when she was a child and had just fallen out of her stroller at a civil rights march in Oakland, California, in an interview with ELLE magazine where she appeared on the cover.

Activist Andray Domise pointed out that Harris' story was lifted from a January 1965, Playboy interview with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. about a girl in Birmingham, Alabama."

https://thepostmillennial.com/kamala-harris-lifts-her-fwee-dom-story-from-mlk-interview-in-playboy

Cool story. Here's another one:

Trump lied to me about his wealth to get onto the Forbes 400. Here are the tapes.
Posing as ‘John Barron,’ he claimed he owned most of his father’s real estate empire.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/trump-lied-to-me-about-his-wealth-to-get-onto-the-forbes-400-here-are-the-tapes/2018/04/20/ac762b08-4287-11e8-8569-26fda6b404c7_story.html
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 06, 2021, 03:51:57 AM
Only someone with a leftist faith and belief system which they must desperately cling on to would think this was a legitimate election.

(https://i.imgur.com/nViKZvP.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 06, 2021, 04:34:04 AM
Only someone with a leftist faith and belief system which they must desperately cling on to would think this was a legitimate election.

(https://i.imgur.com/nViKZvP.jpg)
There's only a couple tiny things that arent shown in those pictures...

That teeny tiny pandemic that has gripped the world and killed nearly 400 000 Americans during the election cycle. So weird he couldnt fill rallies.

And the minor detail of the proportion of votes that went to Biden from big cities, and the record turnout of voters in those cities.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 06, 2021, 04:48:18 AM
There's only a couple tiny things that arent shown in those pictures...

That teeny tiny pandemic that has gripped the world and killed nearly 400 000 Americans during the election cycle. So weird he couldnt fill rallies.

And the minor detail of the proportion of votes that went to Biden from big cities, and the record turnout of voters in those cities.

The problem with such assessments is that they are merely excuses without evidence. Excuses rather than positive evidence to show that such excuses have validity.

Did Joe Biden have overflow crowds of thousands of people cheering him on outside of his events, who couldn't get in, but went and stayed anyway to hear and watch what they could? Trump did.

Are there there any precidents for presidents getting such a low number of counties and record high votes for their time periods?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 06, 2021, 04:48:44 AM
The problem with such assessments is that they are merely excuses without evidence. Excuses rather than positive evidence to show that such excuses have validity.

Did Joe Biden have an overflow crowd of thousands of people waiting to cheer him on outside of his events?

Are there there any precidents for presidents getting such a low number of counties and record high votes for their time periods?

If not, it's just blowing smoke.

There was never a precedent for a black president, so I guess that couldn't have happened either...

Anyway, RIP the GOP Senate majority.  Turns out Biden got a lot of votes because people really wanted to vote for the Dems.  Maybe it was because they liked the Dems, maybe it's because Trump is a complete disaster of a human.  Either way, Biden won.  Even Pence knows it. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/mike-pence-trump-election-result-biden-b1782957.html)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 06, 2021, 04:55:19 AM

The problem with such assessments is that they are merely excuses without evidence. Excuses rather than positive evidence to show that such excuses have validity.

Did Joe Biden have overflow crowds of thousands of people cheering him on outside of his events, who couldn't get in, but went and stayed anyway to hear and watch what they could? Trump did.

Are there there any precidents for presidents getting such a low number of counties and record high votes for their time periods?

Dems are clearly just blowing smoke.

Trump had people at his events because he invited them there, while Biden told people to stay home and wear a mask. That's why Herman Cain and many many other Republicans are dead. The numbers of rally attendees is irrelevant.

And record numbers of voters means that things are, in some ways, unprecedented. That's why I suggested someone would have to look at the proportions of voters from big cities during this record turnout. That would explain whether the record high vote count could be in line with winning that number of counties.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 06, 2021, 04:57:17 AM
The problem with such assessments is that they are merely excuses without evidence. Excuses rather than positive evidence to show that such excuses have validity.

Did Joe Biden have an overflow crowd of thousands of people waiting to cheer him on outside of his events?

Are there there any precidents for presidents getting such a low number of counties and record high votes for their time periods?

If not, it's just blowing smoke.

There was never a precedent for a black president, so I guess that couldn't have happened either...

The first black senator was elected in 1870. There is plenty of precedent for black people in politics. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_United_States_Representatives) None for the statistical anomalies you are alleging.

Quote
Anyway, RIP the GOP Senate majority.  Turns out Biden got a lot of votes because people really wanted to vote for the Dems.  Maybe it was because they liked the Dems, maybe it's because Trump is a complete disaster of a human.  Either way, Biden won.  Even Pence knows it. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/mike-pence-trump-election-result-biden-b1782957.html)

You should find a better source for your news. That was debonked - https://www.theblaze.com/news/trump-pence-nytimes-decertify-results
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 06, 2021, 05:01:58 AM

The first black senator was elected in 1870. There is plenty of precedent for black people in politics. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_United_States_Representatives) None for the statistical anomalies you are alleging.

Not the president.  Got it.

Quote
You should find a better source for your news. That was debonked - https://www.theblaze.com/news/trump-pence-nytimes-decertify-results

Because Trump would never, ever, ever lie.

Anyway, now that the GOP have lost control of the Senate, what do you plan on doing with your 2,000 Biden Bucks?  Donate them to Trump?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 06, 2021, 05:08:26 AM

The first black senator was elected in 1870. There is plenty of precedent for black people in politics. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_United_States_Representatives) None for the statistical anomalies you are alleging.

Not the president.  Got it.

Quote
You should find a better source for your news. That was debonked - https://www.theblaze.com/news/trump-pence-nytimes-decertify-results

Because Trump would never, ever, ever lie.

Anyway, now that the GOP have lost control of the Senate, what do you plan on doing with your 2,000 Biden Bucks?  Donate them to Trump?

Biden won't be president. Tom has all the positive evidence, like people not going to rallies during a pandemic and  him not knowing where the bulk of Americas population  lives. Krakalakken.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 06, 2021, 05:11:09 AM
(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/1251045729/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)

Also Trump.

Honestly, I wonder how many Trump supporters are groupies, riding sround with him state to state.
Also how many are paid actors.  I think the Tulsa Rally gives us a very clear view of Trump's True standing:

When Trump thinks a million want to attend, only 6,000 show up.  Almost as though he canceled the paid actors....
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on January 06, 2021, 07:44:27 AM
(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/1251045729/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)

Also Trump.

Honestly, I wonder how many Trump supporters are groupies, riding sround with him state to state.
Also how many are paid actors.  I think the Tulsa Rally gives us a very clear view of Trump's True standing:

When Trump thinks a million want to attend, only 6,000 show up.  Almost as though he canceled the paid actors....

Can you find one source claiming his rallies were comprised of paid actors for me, please? It just feels to me like you are talking shit about Trump because you dislike him, but have absolutely no substance to back that up in this instance.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 06, 2021, 09:58:13 AM
Can you find one source claiming his rallies were comprised of paid actors for me, please? It just feels to me like you are talking shit about Trump because you dislike him, but have absolutely no substance to back that up in this instance.
Trump is obviously going to have a big numbers at his rallies.
A LOT of people really, really like him.

...but a LOT of other people really, really don't like him.

He's more divisive than Thatcher, and that's saying something. So of course Trump's hysterical fans are going to pack out his rallies, some of them act like he's the second coming.
Biden is more middle of the road. People will vote for him because they like him or, more likely, because he isn't Trump. But he doesn't invoke the strong passions that Trump does.

Is there any evidence that rally attendance has any correlation with voter turnout or election results?
This is another "statistical anomaly" which isn't one because like all these "anomalies" it starts with a false premise - that rally turnout and voter turnout are correlated.
Is that true? And even if it is, the pandemic was clearly a factor last year which is a confounding factor.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 06, 2021, 11:22:16 AM
(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/1251045729/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)

Also Trump.

Honestly, I wonder how many Trump supporters are groupies, riding sround with him state to state.
Also how many are paid actors.  I think the Tulsa Rally gives us a very clear view of Trump's True standing:

When Trump thinks a million want to attend, only 6,000 show up.  Almost as though he canceled the paid actors....

Can you find one source claiming his rallies were comprised of paid actors for me, please? It just feels to me like you are talking shit about Trump because you dislike him, but have absolutely no substance to back that up in this instance.

Please point to where i said his rallys definitely had paid actors?  I did not.  I speculated that the sudden drop in crowd size seemed like a bunch of paid actors were not asked to be there.

How else would you explain the anomoly?  Its the ONLY rally that had such a low turnout while being expected to have a high one.  And its not like tickets were denied or anything.  Anyone who wanted a ticket, got a ticket.  So what happened?


But I mean, I have this.
https://www.abc27.com/news/us-world/politics/this-is-fake-trump-campaign-says-actors-wanted-ads-for-campaign-rally-are-bogus/

Experts, of course, have debunked it, but given how you,Tom and Trump don't care about debunked things, I figured you'd accept the claim.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on January 06, 2021, 12:32:39 PM
(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/1251045729/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)

Also Trump.

Honestly, I wonder how many Trump supporters are groupies, riding sround with him state to state.
Also how many are paid actors.  I think the Tulsa Rally gives us a very clear view of Trump's True standing:

When Trump thinks a million want to attend, only 6,000 show up.  Almost as though he canceled the paid actors....

Can you find one source claiming his rallies were comprised of paid actors for me, please? It just feels to me like you are talking shit about Trump because you dislike him, but have absolutely no substance to back that up in this instance.

Please point to where i said his rallys definitely had paid actors?  I did not.  I speculated that the sudden drop in crowd size seemed like a bunch of paid actors were not asked to be there.

How else would you explain the anomoly?  Its the ONLY rally that had such a low turnout while being expected to have a high one.  And its not like tickets were denied or anything.  Anyone who wanted a ticket, got a ticket.  So what happened?


But I mean, I have this.
https://www.abc27.com/news/us-world/politics/this-is-fake-trump-campaign-says-actors-wanted-ads-for-campaign-rally-are-bogus/

Experts, of course, have debunked it, but given how you,Tom and Trump don't care about debunked things, I figured you'd accept the claim.

So you made up a lie, and figured everyone would be happy with that? You just damaged your poor reputation even further.  ::)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 06, 2021, 01:05:58 PM
Yeah Dave, you really Thorked that up.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 06, 2021, 03:26:10 PM
(https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/1251045729/960x0.jpg?fit=scale)

Also Trump.

Honestly, I wonder how many Trump supporters are groupies, riding sround with him state to state.
Also how many are paid actors.  I think the Tulsa Rally gives us a very clear view of Trump's True standing:

When Trump thinks a million want to attend, only 6,000 show up.  Almost as though he canceled the paid actors....

Can you find one source claiming his rallies were comprised of paid actors for me, please? It just feels to me like you are talking shit about Trump because you dislike him, but have absolutely no substance to back that up in this instance.

Please point to where i said his rallys definitely had paid actors?  I did not.  I speculated that the sudden drop in crowd size seemed like a bunch of paid actors were not asked to be there.

How else would you explain the anomoly?  Its the ONLY rally that had such a low turnout while being expected to have a high one.  And its not like tickets were denied or anything.  Anyone who wanted a ticket, got a ticket.  So what happened?


But I mean, I have this.
https://www.abc27.com/news/us-world/politics/this-is-fake-trump-campaign-says-actors-wanted-ads-for-campaign-rally-are-bogus/

Experts, of course, have debunked it, but given how you,Tom and Trump don't care about debunked things, I figured you'd accept the claim.

So you made up a lie, and figured everyone would be happy with that? You just damaged your poor reputation even further.  ::)

I don't see a lie in anything I wrote.  I see an observation but no lie.  I never claimed paid actors weren't told to show up, I said it appeared like that.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: crutonius on January 06, 2021, 03:47:17 PM
I believe there was a rumor that his earliest rallies and maybe some of his primary debates had paid actors.  Seriously doubt there's any serious number of paid actors if any at his regular rallies.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 06, 2021, 03:54:42 PM
I believe there was a rumor that his earliest rallies and maybe some of his primary debates had paid actors.  Seriously doubt there's any serious number of paid actors if any at his regular rallies.

I wouldn't be shocked.

I mean, we know many of his supporters travel out of state to attend but Trump is the kinds guy who wants a full house and will do anything to ensure his venue is packed.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 06, 2021, 03:56:58 PM
Papering the house is a long tradition in theatre and Trump is nothing if not theatre.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 06, 2021, 04:30:49 PM
The problem with such assessments is that they are merely excuses without evidence. Excuses rather than positive evidence to show that such excuses have validity.

Did Joe Biden have overflow crowds of thousands of people cheering him on outside of his events, who couldn't get in, but went and stayed anyway to hear and watch what they could? Trump did.
And where is your evidence that crowd size at rallies correlates with voter turnout and votes?
Trump clearly has a lot of fans. No-one disputes that. And people who are pro-Trump are often very pro-Trump.
They can see no wrong in anything he does and believe everything he says - as you demonstrate on here daily.
So sure, he gets a lot of fanatical people going to his rallies.

Biden is far less divisive, has a far less fanatical support and in the middle of a pandemic was having smaller events. Some would say that's the responsible thing to do in the circumstances.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/22/fact-check-joe-biden-events-smaller-because-covid-19/5780898002/

So once again your overly simplistic "gotcha" really isn't one if you bother to think about it all in any detail.

Quote
Are there there any precidents for presidents getting such a low number of counties and record high votes for their time periods?
I don't know, but counties have wildly different populations so how is how many countries won a useful metric?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 06, 2021, 04:37:36 PM
Are there there any precidents for presidents getting such a low number of counties and record high votes for their time periods?
I don't know, but counties have wildly different populations so how is how many countries won a useful metric?

It's incredibly useless.  I read that it is possible to win the Electoral College by carrying only 11 counties.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 06, 2021, 06:55:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/KVPpMJE.png)

Here's a map where half the US population is coloured, the other half left uncolored, by County. 143 of the height populated Counties comprise 50% of the population.

Win the right counties by a high enough margin, you win the popular vote.


(https://i.imgur.com/l5ePQSB.jpg)
Above is La county vs the number of smallest counties it takes to reach the same population.
The number of counties a candidate wins has no bearing on their success in winning an election.
This is WHY the US has the electoral college in the first place. Republicans would never win without it. And as problematic as it is, the concept is important.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 06, 2021, 07:02:55 PM
That map basically proves that the more people you interact with daily (ie. High pop densities), the more likely you vote Democrat.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Снупс on January 06, 2021, 10:13:36 PM
There's only a couple tiny things that arent shown in those pictures...

That teeny tiny pandemic that has gripped the world and killed nearly 400 000 Americans during the election cycle. So weird he couldnt fill rallies.

And the minor detail of the proportion of votes that went to Biden from big cities, and the record turnout of voters in those cities.

The problem with such assessments is that they are merely excuses without evidence. Excuses rather than positive evidence to show that such excuses have validity.

Did Joe Biden have overflow crowds of thousands of people cheering him on outside of his events, who couldn't get in, but went and stayed anyway to hear and watch what they could? Trump did.

Are there there any precidents for presidents getting such a low number of counties and record high votes for their time periods?

...is one of your claims actually that Biden holding small rallies is an indicator of fraud? Are we being that openly dishonest now?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 06, 2021, 10:42:51 PM
...is one of your claims actually that Biden holding small rallies is an indicator of fraud? Are we being that openly dishonest now?

I am surprised that this surprises you.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Снупс on January 06, 2021, 11:00:32 PM
I'm used to Gish gallops full of nothing, not "evidence" that's literally "these crowd kept small but funny man win??" I'm not sure one can think critically and genuinely think that. It's just way more blatant than even I expected.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 06, 2021, 11:07:58 PM
"The crowds were kept small" is just an excuse, FYI. How about thousands of people gathering outside of the venue just to be in his presence? Gathering to watch his plane land? Gathering to cheer him on? We've seen none of that.

So yes, lack of public support is evidence.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Снупс on January 06, 2021, 11:09:13 PM
Wow. Mask off, I guess?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 06, 2021, 11:11:04 PM
"The crowds were kept small" is just an excuse, FYI. How about thousands of people gathering just to be in his presence? Gathering to watch his plane land? Gathering to cheer him on? We've seen none of that.

So yes, lack of public support is evidence.
Thanks for dropping the county number argument at least.

Why would there have been people gathering? The message from the Democrat team was always to stay home, listen to public health officials.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 06, 2021, 11:18:28 PM
"The crowds were kept small" is just an excuse, FYI. How about thousands of people gathering outside of the venue just to be in his presence? Gathering to watch his plane land? Gathering to cheer him on? We've seen none of that.

So yes, lack of public support is evidence.
Evidence of what?
Trump has fanatical supporters. Biden doesn't.
That doesn't mean Trump has more people who will vote for him, simply that he evokes more extremes of support (and opposition).

With everything that's going on today, you still think you're on the right side of this?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 06, 2021, 11:19:15 PM
Quote from: Iceman2020
Here's a map where half the US population is coloured, the other half left uncolored, by County. 143 of the height populated Counties comprise 50% of the population.

Win the right counties by a high enough margin, you win the popular vote.

Your argument is just that a huge statistical anomaly is "possible". But the presence of absurd statistical anomalies is indicative of illegitimate election.

Wisconsin Counties:

(https://i.imgur.com/9trpfGx.png)

Bellwether Counties:

(https://i.imgur.com/lCSmqEp.jpg)

https://nationalfile.com/data-trump-won-95-of-bellwether-counties-making-biden-win-statistically-improbable/

" “Out of 3,000 counties in this country, there are 19 that have a perfect track record since 1980 of voting for the successful presidential candidate,” Cortes noted. “Donald Trump, on November 3, won 18 out of these 19 counties. Could these bellwether counties really have gotten it wrong all at the same time?”

The corporate media has largely been unable to explain Trump’s dominant performance in bellwether counties, offering up only vague references to “more racially diverse populations” in response to the counties’ sharp contrast with a purported Biden victory. "
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: GreatATuin on January 06, 2021, 11:28:50 PM

Your argument is just that a huge statistical anomaly is "possible". But the presence of an absurd statistical anomaly is indicative of fraud.

(https://i.imgur.com/lCSmqEp.jpg)

https://nationalfile.com/data-trump-won-95-of-bellwether-counties-making-biden-win-statistically-improbable/

" Out of 3,000 counties in this country, there are 19 that have a perfect track record since 1980 of voting for the successful presidential candidate,” Cortes noted. “Donald Trump, on November 3, won 18 out of these 19 counties. Could these bellwether counties really have gotten it wrong all at the same time?”

The corporate media has largely been unable to explain Trump’s dominant performance in bellwether counties, offering up only vague references to “more racially diverse populations” in response to the counties’ sharp contrast with a purported Biden victory. "

This is absolute bullshit. I could easily build a list of so-called "bellwether counties" that would equally "prove" the 2016 election was rigged.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 06, 2021, 11:28:58 PM
Your argument is just that a huge statistical anomaly is "possible". But the presence of absurd statistical anomalies is indicative of fraud.
No. The argument is that you don't understand statistics.
Evidenced by the fact that you didn't understand the video I posted which exposed the "one in a quadrillion" nonsense
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 06, 2021, 11:33:10 PM
Your argument is just that a huge statistical anomaly is "possible". But the presence of absurd statistical anomalies is indicative of fraud.
No. The argument is that you don't understand statistics.
Evidenced by the fact that you didn't understand the video I posted which exposed the "one in a quadrillion" nonsense

Your video didn't understand the quadrillion claim either. It was clarified later in the that thread by another source. The author of that claim was right in what he specifically said, and people were interpreting it wrong.

Funny that you think you are a better expert than Rasmussen Reports, who promoted the following:

(https://i.imgur.com/BGCSm4f.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 06, 2021, 11:36:39 PM
Funny that you think you are a better expert than Rasmussen Reports, who promoted the following:
"the vote even exceeded the number of registered voters" is a lie.

With everything going on in Washington right now, you still think you're on the right side of this?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 06, 2021, 11:41:50 PM

Your video didn't understand the quadrillion claim either. It was clarified later in the that thread. The author of that claim was right in what he specifically said, and people were interpreting it wrong.

No. The author's math was technically correct, but there was no justifiable basis for the author to have performed that math on the voting data because the data populations were so drastically distinct.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 07, 2021, 12:01:32 AM
This is absolute bullshit. I could easily build a list of so-called "bellwether counties" that would equally "prove" the 2016 election was rigged.

Good luck with that. These counties have been a known standard indicator for quite a while. Saying that they are wrong and so what is just admitting that there are anomalous results there.

https://mustreadalaska.com/how-could-the-bellwether-counties-get-it-so-wrong/

Quote
Several counties in America are considered the “bellwethers,” the ones that nearly always vote for the eventual winner of the presidential race. And by “nearly always,” we mean it’s remarkable how accurate they are throughout history.

Maybe you are not being honest with yourself:

https://www.theday.com/article/20201202/OP04/201209860

Quote
Trump is the first incumbent president in 132 years, since Grover Cleveland’s failed bid for re-election in 1888, to have increased his vote from his first election and not win. Trump collected more votes than any previous incumbent seeking reelection, receiving 11 million more votes than in 2016.

Biden won more votes nationally than any presidential candidate in history, but he won a record low 17% of counties — yet Biden somehow outdid Obama in total votes? If this doesn't at least make you  curious about the voting anomalies, you're simply not being honest.

This may be challenging for many to accept, but again this is not about Trump; it's about attaining a certain level of confidence moving forward in how we elect leaders. The most sacred right of citizenship must have transparency, otherwise, there can be no election peace.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 07, 2021, 12:43:51 AM
How could polls have gotten things so wrong when they did for so long? It’s almost like they don’t dictate the future. Weird. Now hopefully the totally peaceful and not authoritarian at all GOP can get it together long enough to lose while the country has some semblance of cohesion left.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on January 07, 2021, 12:44:24 AM
Tom, do you actually think that bellwether counties are some sort of nexus to the nation's political leanings? That we can actually look at how these counties vote and scientifically determine how the entire nation will vote as a result? If the answer is yes, then I think you ought to offer some sort of explanation, because I think most rational people would agree that doesn't make any sense. And if the answer is no, then you should just accept that bellwether counties are fairly interesting phenomena that don't actually mean anything in a scientific or statistical sense. Weird patterns and coincidences form by happenstance all the time, and they stop happening all the time too.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 07, 2021, 05:33:04 AM
Tom, Trump changed everything.  Using pre-Trump data is irrelevant.  Might as well use a map of Pangea to navigate the ocean.

Also: Biden got REPUBLICAN VOTES because that's how bad Trump is.  Republicans literally chose him over their own party.

That is how he got more votes than ever.  (Also population grows, turnout was high, etc...)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 07, 2021, 07:17:22 AM
"More Republicans voted for Biden this time. That's why Biden won a record low 17% of counties." - libs, apparently
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 07, 2021, 07:52:00 AM
"More Republicans voted for Biden this time. That's why Biden won a record low 17% of counties." - libs, apparently

Tom.  You do know that 50% of America lives in like 50 counties, right?  Hold on, let me find that map....

https://www.businessinsider.com/half-of-the-united-states-lives-in-these-counties-2013-9

So if you get a majority in those counties, you'll probably win the state.  Ssooo..... Yeah.
Also, kinda funny how you'll happily tout voting statistics as irregular and thus proof of Biden winning but seem ok that Biden won a record low and do not think THAT is odd.  Like, what are the statistical likelyhood that Biden would lose so many counties?  Maybe Trump and his party committed fraud in those small counties?  Had you considered that?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 07, 2021, 09:08:59 AM
Biden's win certified.

Bye, Donald.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 07, 2021, 09:21:02 AM
Biden's win certified.

Bye, Donald.

Nothing short of a coupe can keep Donald in power now.


Oh wait....
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 07, 2021, 09:54:35 AM
Good luck with that. These counties have been a known standard indicator for quite a while. Saying that they are wrong and so what is just admitting that there are anomalous results there.

Sigh! Why don't you understand anything?
There's nothing "magic" about bellwether counties. Historically they have gone with the President, that doesn't mean failure to do so is an indication of anything.
As you have admitted, Biden's support was concentrated in a relatively low number of counties but as you are repeatedly failing to understand - or pretending not to - not every county is created equal. Some have significantly higher populations than others. The number of counties won isn't an indication of anything.

Quote
Trump is the first incumbent president in 132 years, since Grover Cleveland’s failed bid for re-election in 1888, to have increased his vote from his first election and not win. Trump collected more votes than any previous incumbent seeking reelection, receiving 11 million more votes than in 2016.
Biden won more votes nationally than any presidential candidate in history, but he won a record low 17% of counties — yet Biden somehow outdid Obama in total votes? If this doesn't at least make you  curious about the voting anomalies, you're simply not being honest.

Voter turnout was significantly higher in this election than it was in any recent one - Trump evokes strong feelings both positive and negative. So yeah, Trump got more votes because more people voted. And remember that Trump didn't even win the popular vote last time out, I don't remember you expressing incredulity about how Trump could possibly have won the election without winning the popular vote.
Because it doesn't matter how many people vote for you (to a point), it matters where they vote for you. And the number of counties is simply irrelevant for the reasons already explained.

I'm sorry you don't understand any of this, but there it is.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: J-Man on January 07, 2021, 11:39:03 PM
Sleepy Joe couldn't win a checkers game...shuffle off stage////
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Shifter on January 08, 2021, 09:24:46 AM
Sleepy Joe couldn't win a checkers game...shuffle off stage////

And yet, he has won the Presidency and helped to bag the Senate at the same time  ::) What does that say about your glorious 'dear leader' Trump?

By Trumps own metric on the kind of candidate and person Joe was, to lose to such a man makes trump the ultimate L-O-S-E-R
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 08, 2021, 09:39:44 PM
You tell 'em, Joe!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUowrnuKf00
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 20, 2021, 05:04:49 PM
Great speech President Biden is giving at the inauguration.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Clyde Frog on January 20, 2021, 05:22:48 PM
Great speech President Biden is giving at the inauguration.
If he keeps up that kind of performance, I think he just might be president one day!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 20, 2021, 06:33:15 PM
Great speech President Biden is giving at the inauguration.

It was pretty much what I expected from him, which I think is a good thing after the shit show politics has been the last 4 years.  I hope there is an uptick to the kindness and decency level of discourse now that he is in charge.  Knowing that Facebook and Twitter are still a thing, I am not sure that will happen, but hey a guy can dream.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 20, 2021, 11:17:49 PM
Word is that Joe has already got plastic covers on all the couches in the oval office...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 21, 2021, 08:23:09 AM
I think he’s had the slide and ball pool taken out too.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 21, 2021, 08:49:26 AM
Great speech President Biden is giving at the inauguration.
Really? He probably did more to radicalise Trump supporters than Trump managed throughout his entire presidency. He scratched every existing itch, and then added a few for good measure. This was Hillary's "deplorables" meme all over again, and it will likely get weaponised in the same way.

I completely understand the liberals' need to celebrate, but you're gonna be feeling the hangover from this rhetoric in a few years. This isn't a good start for the promised moment of unity and healing.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 21, 2021, 09:02:11 AM
Great speech President Biden is giving at the inauguration.
Really? He probably did more to radicalise Trump supporters than Trump managed throughout his entire presidency. He scratched every existing itch, and then added a few for good measure. This was Hillary's "deplorables" meme all over again, and it will likely get weaponised in the same way.

I completely understand the liberals' need to celebrate, but you're gonna be feeling the hangover from this rhetoric in a few years. This isn't a good start for the promised moment of unity and healing.
Really? I mean, he talked a lot about unity. This bit was good:

Quote
To all those who did not support us, let me say this. Hear us out as we move forward. Take a measure of me and my heart.
If you still disagree, so be it. That's democracy. That's America. The right to dissent peacefully. And the guardrail of our democracy is perhaps our nation's greatest strength. If you hear me clearly, disagreement must not lead to disunion. And I pledge this to you. I will be a President for all Americans, all Americans. And I promise you I will fight for those who did not support me as for those who did.

What bits did you think would enrage Trump supporters? He talked about the angry mob and democracy prevailing but I'd suggest anyone who is crazy enough that storming the Capitol building was a good idea or to believe Trump's lies about election fraud aren't really going to be placated by anything he said. What is your issue with what he said and is there anything you actually think he could have said which would have been better?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Shifter on January 21, 2021, 09:50:03 AM
Great speech President Biden is giving at the inauguration.
Really? He probably did more to radicalise Trump supporters than Trump managed throughout his entire presidency. He scratched every existing itch, and then added a few for good measure. This was Hillary's "deplorables" meme all over again, and it will likely get weaponised in the same way.

I completely understand the liberals' need to celebrate, but you're gonna be feeling the hangover from this rhetoric in a few years. This isn't a good start for the promised moment of unity and healing.

the above is ridiculously disconnected from reality. Much like Trump and his Trumptards were. Can you at least point out parts Biden said that were so inflammatory?

Or maybe Trumptards are just enraged by the idea of getting along with other people. In that case, I agree with you
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 21, 2021, 10:17:12 AM
https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/9513104/trump-biden-inauguration-comparing-musical-star-power

Chuckle.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 21, 2021, 10:47:16 AM
Or maybe Trumptards are just enraged by the idea of getting along with other people. In that case, I agree with you
I mean, you're not far off, but that's not quite what I was getting at. You are correct insofar that it doesn't matter whether Trump supporters are right (they aren't), but Biden's biggest challenge isn't right or wrong. It's calming emotions and reconciliation vs. furthering division and allowing people to double down. To understand what I'm trying to say, you have to try and read the speech assuming bad faith - that's how the losers will read it - and see whether it would make you angrier or go "huh, maybe I'll give this guy a chance then". The speech was extremely "us and them".

Also, for reference, I'm using the transcript at https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/21/joe-biden-inauguration-speech-full-transcript-2021-president/ for my quotes.

Joe opens with two paragraphs talking about how "democracy has prevailed" over Trump's attempts to question the legitimacy of the election, which culminated in the Capitol riots. There's a problem with that - facts aside, most Trump supporters are not convinced that democracy has prevailed. Many think they're witnessing it being stolen. We shouldn't legitimise these feelings, but we absolutely shouldn't paint them as evil. Because most of them aren't - they allowed their emotions and a plethora of media/information issues we're currently facing to take control of them. A statement like "We've learned again that democracy is precious, democracy is fragile and, at this hour my friends, democracy has prevailed. So now on this hallowed ground where just a few days ago violence sought to shake the Capitol's very foundations, we come together as one nation under God - indivisible - to carry out the peaceful transfer of power as we have for more than two centuries" will be read in the context of "us and them", because that's the context it was uttered in. This isn't unity, this is "we won, now unite behind us".

The same goes for "We'll press forward with speed and urgency for we have much to do in this winter of peril and significant possibility. Much to do, much to heal, much to restore, much to build and much to gain." Again, this will be read as "you lot fucked up the country and now I'm here to fix it by undoing what you wanted to accomplish". Right or wrong, this won't help.

AATW claims that Biden talked a lot about unity. But every time he mentions "unity", he immediately follows up with a quip about how racism/the far right is bad. He actually can't stop himself, every time he says "unity", a sentence on how extremism is bad and how we'll totally fix it has to follow. Again, that's not "unity" - that's "you were bad, and now we're uniting against you".

So here's the problem: you've just spent a better part of 15 minutes listening to "us good, them bad, there are lies and there is truth, and luckily the truth has triumphed against the vicious attack on democracy, which by the way was very bad, just like racism and sexism which are also bad, hey, did you know that this location was very important for fighting these bad things, which are just as bad as my opponents?" when Biden looks up to the camera with a gentle smile and politely explains that it's time to end the "uncivil war". He just spent 15-20 minutes rubbing the fact that you're evil in your face and then says "debate over, we unity now :)". I can't imagine this appealing to anyone who wasn't already on board. That problem, in itself, isn't new in America. It's just that Biden claims to be fixing it while perpetuating it perfectly.

Take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm not a Trump supporter, but I like to observe how they react to these things (the gist is that they don't seem to disagree with my reading (https://thedonald.win/p/11SJjuHTNM/its-gonna-be-a-hard-no-on-this-u/c/)), and I occasionally pop in to some of the nastier parts of the Internet. I kinda-sorta understand how they communicate, but I probably missed a lot of what's causing the anger. However: if unity is the goal, then understanding must come first. In my humble opinion, Joe Biden has a long way to go before he understands any of the backlash against Democrats that first reared its head in 2016, and which to some extent is still continuing.

Side note: Garth Brooks did a fantastic job at following the message of unity, and was clearly an excellent choice for the ceremony. If any MAGAs kept their TVs on for long enough to hear him, that might at least count for something. J-Lo randomly screaming in Spanish mid-song, probably not so much, but that appealed a lot to the more passionate Dem base. Something for everyone, I guess.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 21, 2021, 11:23:56 AM
I see what you're getting at, but do you think there's anything he could have said which would have got the MAGA lot on board?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 21, 2021, 12:12:06 PM
I think we're at a stage where "less is more". The riots only just happened, and obviously nobody is going to be suddenly switching sides after a single speech, no matter how good. Personally, I think it would have been better not to focus on it, and instead talk about values that Americans (claim to) share. That, to me, would be a message of unity. Joe Biden needs to take some hints out of John McCain's playbook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrnRU3ocIH4

But now, the word "unity" is gonna be nigh-impossible to reclaim. Overnight, it became a codeword for "we won, get over it". Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but it's the first tiny step in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 21, 2021, 12:39:14 PM
I see what you're getting at, but do you think there's anything he could have said which would have got the MAGA lot on board?

Sure there is.

"Donald Trump was a fantastic president and I will be relinquishing the presidency to him."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 21, 2021, 02:39:23 PM
Definitely agree with Pete, but theres really nothing he could have said that would please everyone. Classic catch 23 situation.

Talk tough and you're shitting on 70M american Patriots who feel they got robbed.
Be nice and you're legitimizing the violence and conspiracy
He talked unity then pointed blame right back at the the people who loved Donny and still think he got cheated
Called the protesters nazi white supremacists... and while there were shitloads of those....the other component of just 'typical' trumpers get incensed when they are lumped in under those words, even if they willfully joined a mob with people wearing KKK hoods and skinheads carrying nazi flags.

He did about as well as he could, while still butchering enough lines for the old man Biden trope to live on, but this is gonna be a long hard road for ol Joe.

Big brother Joe bring the homeland to it's full potential glory, comrade!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 22, 2021, 12:48:40 PM
Must be so nice for Fauci now being able to deal with a grown up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXLCrgUXGsM
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Action80 on January 22, 2021, 04:09:10 PM
Definitely agree with Pete, but theres really nothing he could have said that would please everyone. Classic catch 23 situation.

Talk tough and you're shitting on 70M american Patriots who feel they got robbed.
Be nice and you're legitimizing the violence and conspiracy
He talked unity then pointed blame right back at the the people who loved Donny and still think he got cheated
Called the protesters nazi white supremacists... and while there were shitloads of those....the other component of just 'typical' trumpers get incensed when they are lumped in under those words, even if they willfully joined a mob with people wearing KKK hoods and skinheads carrying nazi flags.

He did about as well as he could, while still butchering enough lines for the old man Biden trope to live on, but this is gonna be a long hard road for ol Joe.

Big brother Joe bring the homeland to it's full potential glory, comrade!
Define "shitloads."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 22, 2021, 05:55:06 PM
Definitely agree with Pete, but theres really nothing he could have said that would please everyone. Classic catch 23 situation.

Talk tough and you're shitting on 70M american Patriots who feel they got robbed.
Be nice and you're legitimizing the violence and conspiracy
He talked unity then pointed blame right back at the the people who loved Donny and still think he got cheated
Called the protesters nazi white supremacists... and while there were shitloads of those....the other component of just 'typical' trumpers get incensed when they are lumped in under those words, even if they willfully joined a mob with people wearing KKK hoods and skinheads carrying nazi flags.

He did about as well as he could, while still butchering enough lines for the old man Biden trope to live on, but this is gonna be a long hard road for ol Joe.

Big brother Joe bring the homeland to it's full potential glory, comrade!
Define "shitloads."

It's 2021. One is too many; any more than that is shitloads.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Regicide on January 22, 2021, 07:09:25 PM
At least he would be if the election were held today.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/politics/donald-trump-swing-state-polls-new-york-times-siena/index.html

I imagine polling went like this.

Pollster: "Hi, I'm from the New York Times. Would you mind telling me how you would vote if there were an election tomorrow?"
Democrat voter: "I'd vote Biden. Orange man bad.

Pollster: "Hi, I'm from the New York Times. Would you mind telling me how you would vote if there were an election tomorrow?"
Republican voter: "New York Times? How about you f-off, you total disgrace.  >o<"
Pollster: "I'll pop you down as an undecided.

Conservatives in all countries are much more likely to refuse to disclose their voting intentions. This is likely because the New York Times et al frequently tell people they are stupid if they vote Republican. When a left wing journalist asks you how you will vote, you're unlikely to be cooperative with them. I wouldn't have '5 mins to spare' for the BBC for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shy_Tory_factor
^ I guess you would have something similar in the USA.


My verdict ... Trump will win again without breaking a sweat. By the time the head to head debate has happened and Biden is shown to be absolutely out of his skull with dementia, it'll all be over for another 4 years.

Welp, this post aged like milk.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2021, 02:48:19 AM
Nope. It's not over at all. If a politician is sworn into office and it is later found that they were fraudulently or inappropriately elected, they are removed. There is precedent for this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20201114182126/https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1994-02-20-1994051024-story.html

Election litigation is still going on:

https://www.scotusblog.com/election-litigation/

And a metric ton of evidence still exists:

https://hereistheevidence.com/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2021, 02:56:57 AM
Crooked AZ politicians finally give up

https://thedcpatriot.com/one-hour-after-biden-is-sworn-in-arizona-senate-president-releases-evidence-of-voter-fraud/

(https://i.imgur.com/AzO12Kj.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 24, 2021, 03:01:23 AM
Nope. It's not over at all. If a politician is sworn in and it is later found that he or she was fraudulently or inappropriately elected, they are removed. There is precedent for this:

https://web.archive.org/web/20201114182126/https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1994-02-20-1994051024-story.html

Election litigation is still going on:

https://www.scotusblog.com/election-litigation/

And a metric ton of evidence still exists:

https://hereistheevidence.com/

It seems that every time a deadline for Trump winning passes, a new hope arises that is just around the corner.

In the Stinson case, there were a large number of fraudulent votes that had been discovered and proven. To date, nobody has found 7 million fake votes for Biden. Even after multiple hand recounts in several battleground states.

If any real evidence existed it would have been presented in one of the hundred odd GOP lawsuits that got tossed out due to a total lack of evidence.  The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence. They were very clear on this.

Biden won, legitimately and honestly and is not going to be removed by any fantasy lawsuit with nonexistent evidence. He won by over 7 million votes. Nobody has been able to show any large scale fraud. In fact in Pennsylvania after an extremely detailed check found only three fraudulent votes. Three. All voting fraudulently for Trump. All his efforts ended up losing him three votes, he certainly didn't find the hundreds of thousands he claims were falsified for Biden in the state.

Random web sites can say anything they want, but unless any of that makes it before a Judge, it's completely worthless. If all this evidence existed and was valid, it would have been presented in a court of law, not just on some random internet blog.

Joe Biden is president, and Trump isn't coming back. It's over.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2021, 03:07:38 AM
Quote
The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence. They were very clear on this.

You have provided zero sources on this claim that they assessed the merits of the bulk of the fraud cases, while I have provided plenty to the contrary.

Tennessee lawmakers:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/gop-tennessee-state-lawmakers-urge-senators-reps-to-object-to-electoral-votes_3639825.html

"But, according to the Tennessee lawmakers, “Very few of these irregularities have been investigated in a professional manner by anyone in law enforcement or in a position to do anything about it. In fact, most of these jurisdictions, save Arizona, are blocking transparency efforts at every turn.”

They also faulted the U.S. judiciary system for not taking up lawsuits and typically refusing to hear the cases based on procedural errors—rather than merit."

Former WH Deputy Press Secretary:

https://money.yahoo.com/maxine-waters-slams-trump-security-130000896.html

"Fraud claims were the centerpiece of 60 lawsuits that have been denied in court. Gidley retorted those court defeats, saying “the cases were lost not on merit but lost to judicial technicalities.”"

https://m.theepochtimes.com/courts-havent-decided-facts-on-voter-fraud-found-excuses-to-dismiss-trumps-cases-rand-paul_3622644.html

"Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) rejected the notion that courts have 'decided the facts' amid allegations of election fraud during the Nov. 3 election.

'The courts have not decided the facts,' Paul said during an election integrity hearing on Wednesday. 'The courts never looked at the facts. The courts don’t like elections, and they stayed out of it by finding an excuse.'

The Kentucky senator went on to say that courts mainly rejected lawsuits from President Donald Trump’s team or other election-related lawsuits on procedural grounds."

Political Journalist Mike Walsh:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/after-trumps-last-stand-left-seeks-revenge_3649577.html

"Wuz we robbed? It’s very likely, given the suspicious circumstance of Biden’s materializing popular votes in precisely the swing states that were needed for victory. And while the multiple lawsuits contesting those votes have been consistently thrown out in various courts (including, disgracefully, the Texas suit presented to the U.S. Supreme Court), they were dismissed on procedural grounds, and the evidence remains to this day unheard."

Rose Sentinel:

https://romesentinel.com/stories/trump-following-all-legal-means-to-challenge-suspect-state-election-results,108212

"Trump and his allies have filed roughly 50 lawsuits challenging election results, and nearly all have been dismissed or dropped but on procedural grounds that did not test the evidence. AP claims Trump has lost twice at the U.S. Supreme Court but that was also procedural and did not consider evidence."

Quote
If any real evidence existed it would have been presented in one of the hundred odd GOP lawsuits

Despite the procedural games, some judges have agreed with the concerns and have granted audits and set future court dates. So you're wrong.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on January 24, 2021, 03:15:04 AM
How long will you give it until you admit you're wrong, Tom? If nothing happens after three months, will you concede that Biden is the president and will remain the president? Six months? A year?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 24, 2021, 03:23:54 AM
Crooked AZ politicians finally give up

https://thedcpatriot.com/one-hour-after-biden-is-sworn-in-arizona-senate-president-releases-evidence-of-voter-fraud/

(https://i.imgur.com/AzO12Kj.png)

Wrong again. No evidence of fraud was released:

The claim: Arizona Senate released evidence of voter fraud the day of President Joe Biden’s swearing-in

Conservative Facebook pages have started sharing an online article that falsely claims Arizona government officials released evidence of voter fraud an hour after President Joe Biden’s inauguration on Jan. 20.

No evidence of voter fraud
On Jan. 20, the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors agreed to negotiate with the Arizona Senate on a deal to release data from November’s election to avoid further court hearings, according to the Associated Press. However, the Senate did not release any evidence of voter fraud.

Our rating: False
The claim that the Arizona Senate released evidence of voter fraud the day of President Joe Biden’s inauguration is FALSE, based on our research. The Arizona Senate and the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors are working on an agreement to release data from November’s election so that the Senate can perform an audit
.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/21/maricopa-county-agreement-arizona-senate-joe-biden-inauguration/6661033002/

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2021, 03:33:21 AM
Crooked AZ politicians finally give up

https://thedcpatriot.com/one-hour-after-biden-is-sworn-in-arizona-senate-president-releases-evidence-of-voter-fraud/

(https://i.imgur.com/AzO12Kj.png)

Wrong again. No evidence of fraud was released:

The claim: Arizona Senate released evidence of voter fraud the day of President Joe Biden’s swearing-in

Conservative Facebook pages have started sharing an online article that falsely claims Arizona government officials released evidence of voter fraud an hour after President Joe Biden’s inauguration on Jan. 20.

No evidence of voter fraud
On Jan. 20, the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors agreed to negotiate with the Arizona Senate on a deal to release data from November’s election to avoid further court hearings, according to the Associated Press. However, the Senate did not release any evidence of voter fraud.

Our rating: False
The claim that the Arizona Senate released evidence of voter fraud the day of President Joe Biden’s inauguration is FALSE, based on our research. The Arizona Senate and the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors are working on an agreement to release data from November’s election so that the Senate can perform an audit
.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/21/maricopa-county-agreement-arizona-senate-joe-biden-inauguration/6661033002/

Nope. The title is correct. The Senate Judiciary Committee determined that there was evidence of fraud. This is why the subpoena for a further audit was issued. They said that there was evidence of fraud, that the data will have further evidence of fraud, and that the audit needs to be performed to show that the election was free of fraud.

https://www.azmirror.com/2020/12/14/arizona-senate-will-subpoena-maricopa-county-for-election-audit/

(https://i.imgur.com/OcE4PrV.png)

So the Senate Judiciary Committee declared that there was evidence of fraud there. Anyone releasing that data would be releasing further evidence of fraud that the Senate Judiciary Committee has determined.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 24, 2021, 07:20:52 AM
Crooked AZ politicians finally give up

https://thedcpatriot.com/one-hour-after-biden-is-sworn-in-arizona-senate-president-releases-evidence-of-voter-fraud/

(https://i.imgur.com/AzO12Kj.png)

Wrong again. No evidence of fraud was released:

The claim: Arizona Senate released evidence of voter fraud the day of President Joe Biden’s swearing-in

Conservative Facebook pages have started sharing an online article that falsely claims Arizona government officials released evidence of voter fraud an hour after President Joe Biden’s inauguration on Jan. 20.

No evidence of voter fraud
On Jan. 20, the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors agreed to negotiate with the Arizona Senate on a deal to release data from November’s election to avoid further court hearings, according to the Associated Press. However, the Senate did not release any evidence of voter fraud.

Our rating: False
The claim that the Arizona Senate released evidence of voter fraud the day of President Joe Biden’s inauguration is FALSE, based on our research. The Arizona Senate and the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors are working on an agreement to release data from November’s election so that the Senate can perform an audit
.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/21/maricopa-county-agreement-arizona-senate-joe-biden-inauguration/6661033002/

Nope. The title is correct. The Senate Judiciary Committee determined that there was evidence of fraud. This is why the subpoena for a further audit was issued. They said that there was evidence of fraud, that the data will have further evidence of fraud, and that the audit needs to be performed to show that the election was free of fraud.

https://www.azmirror.com/2020/12/14/arizona-senate-will-subpoena-maricopa-county-for-election-audit/

(https://i.imgur.com/OcE4PrV.png)

So the Senate Judiciary Committee declared that there was evidence of fraud there. Anyone releasing that data would be releasing further evidence of fraud that the Senate Judiciary Committee has determined.

I really don't understand how your can mess up the facts this egregiously. Your first post says, "One Hour After Biden Sworn In, Arizona Senate President Releases Evidence of Fraud." That did not happen. No evidence of "Fraud" was released. That's already been shown.

Now you post an article from the AZ Mirror which is from December 14th, over a month before the inauguration. What does that have to do with the no fraud evidence released headline that is incorrect. You're all over the place just swatting at anything that strikes your narrative fancy without even looking into it. Stick to the facts.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2021, 08:01:23 AM
It's about the same subpoenas that the elections officials were refusing to comply with. The orders were issued a while ago and they were refusing to follow it.

The body issuing the subpoenas determined that there was evidence of fraud and that the data contained further evidence of fraud. This is why the title is correct. It was already declared and determined that there is fraud there, hence the issuing of the subpoenas.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 24, 2021, 08:06:55 AM
It's about the same subpoenas that the elections officials were refusing to comply with. The orders were issued a while ago and they were refusing to follow it.

The body issuing the subpoenas determined that there was evidence of fraud and that the data contained further evidence of fraud. This is why the title is correct. It was already declared and determined that there is fraud there, hence the issuing of the subpoenas.

Nope, your headline is incorrect. No evidence of "Fraud" was released "One Hour After Biden Sworn In..." That did not happen. No evidence of "Fraud" was released, period. That's already been shown.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 24, 2021, 08:16:14 AM
Tom:
Biden’s just a little elected, Trump’s still good, he’s still good.

Biden’s just a little certified, Trump’s still good, he’s still good

Biden’s just a little inaugurated, Trump’s still good, he’s still good

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0LTgNVwfMAE

Tom. You have spent months chasing one false hope after another. The courts were going to overturn it. Then the Supreme Court was. Then there was going to be an uprising on Inauguration Day.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, Biden is the President, just like basically everyone on here was telling you he was going to be. Y’know because he won the election. And sure, you can provide sources which are telling you what you want to hear. You may wish to consider that those are the same sources which provided you with all the false hope which has proven to be false hope.
At some point you’re going to have to reconcile yourself to the reality that Biden is the President and he’s going to be for the next 4 years.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 24, 2021, 09:35:19 AM
Crooked AZ politicians finally give up

https://thedcpatriot.com/one-hour-after-biden-is-sworn-in-arizona-senate-president-releases-evidence-of-voter-fraud/

(https://i.imgur.com/AzO12Kj.png)

Please link to the evidence, if you are sure it exists.  I'm sure you've seen it.  Right?

Also:
1. If judges are dropping cases based on procedural issues, why are lawyers getting these procedural issues so wrong?  Why are they not doing their jobs and why haven't thry fixed the error and resubmitted the case?

2. Why do you claim judges don't want to overturn an election but spent (days?) Looking for evidence of a judge overturning an election?  It contradicts your argument.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 24, 2021, 01:19:47 PM
This video is good and may help Tom, but I fear he’s too far gone (or the character he plays on here is, possibly)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9zfS3RRrsvY
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 24, 2021, 01:25:36 PM
Quote
The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence. They were very clear on this.

You have provided zero sources on this claim that they assessed the merits of the bulk of the fraud cases, while I have provided plenty to the contrary.

Have 60.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/08/joe-biden/joe-biden-right-more-60-trumps-election-lawsuits-l/

Here is one judge from Pennsylvania ruling on one of Trumps factless lawsuits before throwing it out:

"Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here."

All you have are Trump supporters repeating the same lies, but the Judges words are there to read.  Trump has no facts on his side.  Period.

Quote
If any real evidence existed it would have been presented in one of the hundred odd GOP lawsuits

Despite the procedural games, some judges have agreed with the concerns and have granted audits and set future court dates. So you're wrong.

You have provided zero sources on this claim.  Please list the specific lawsuits and the evidence they presented that has been accepted.  Looking for evidence isn't evidence, and you claim they have it, so it should be easy to list.

At what point will you accept defeat?  Will it take another month of lawsuits? A year? Four? 

Eight? :)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on January 24, 2021, 04:34:50 PM
I wonder if we will start to see a turning of the tide?

Biden is making enemies of Google, Facebook, Twitter et al. I wonder if they will begin a fight back soon? Hunter Biden stories promoted to the top of searches. Stories of dementia following. The gushing praise Biden is getting having accomplished literally zero coming to a halt. I wonder if big tech over played their hand and will soon rue the day they sided with the rotten Democrats? Will be fun to watch as a conservative. Big Tech vs Liberal government. I literally don't give a shit which one of them gets wrecked.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 24, 2021, 05:00:08 PM
I wonder if we will start to see a turning of the tide?

Biden is making enemies of Google, Facebook, Twitter et al. I wonder if they will begin a fight back soon? Hunter Biden stories promoted to the top of searches. Stories of dementia following. The gushing praise Biden is getting having accomplished literally zero coming to a halt. I wonder if big tech over played their hand and will soon rue the day they sided with the rotten Democrats? Will be fun to watch as a conservative. Big Tech vs Liberal government. I literally don't give a shit which one of them gets wrecked.

How is he making enemies of them?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2021, 05:15:07 PM
It's about the same subpoenas that the elections officials were refusing to comply with. The orders were issued a while ago and they were refusing to follow it.

The body issuing the subpoenas determined that there was evidence of fraud and that the data contained further evidence of fraud. This is why the title is correct. It was already declared and determined that there is fraud there, hence the issuing of the subpoenas.

Nope, your headline is incorrect. No evidence of "Fraud" was released "One Hour After Biden Sworn In..." That did not happen. No evidence of "Fraud" was released, period. That's already been shown.

Wrong. The legislative body had already declared and determined that there was fraud and that the data would contain further evidence of fraud, and used its authority and power to issue these subpoenas. That's why it is permissible to say that they are handing over evidence of fraud.

Quote
The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence. They were very clear on this.

You have provided zero sources on this claim that they assessed the merits of the bulk of the fraud cases, while I have provided plenty to the contrary.

Have 60.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/08/joe-biden/joe-biden-right-more-60-trumps-election-lawsuits-l/

Here is one judge from Pennsylvania ruling on one of Trumps factless lawsuits before throwing it out:

"Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here."

lol politifact. You still have not provided suitable quotes which say that the bulk of the cases were decided on merit. That quote isn't talking about the bulk of the cases. The only quote in that link of anything like that comes from Joe Biden.

Rep. Matt Gaetz - a lawyer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Gaetz

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/rep-matt-gaetz-speech-transcript-after-riots-at-capitol-building-objection-of-electors

"In 2016, Democrats found out that they couldn’t beat Donald Trump at the ballot box with voters who actually show up, so they turned to impeachment and the witness box. And when that failed they ran to the mailbox where this election saw an unprecedented amount of votes that could not be authenticated with true ID, with true signature match, and with true confidence for the American people.

Our Article III courts have failed by not holding evidentiary hearings to weigh the evidence. We should not join in that failure. We should vindicate the rights of states, we should vindicate the subpoenas in Arizona that have been issued to get a hold of these voting machines and we should reject these electors. I yield back."

Alex Swoyer, a legal affairs journalist with a law degree: https://www.washingtontimes.com/staff/alex-swoyer/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/nov/29/trump-judges-refuse-look-election-fraud-evidence/

"Most courts dismissed the cases before conducting evidentiary hearings"

Spartalive - https://spartalive.com/stories/th-winds-of-war,36942

"There is substantial proof in the form of eyewitness accounts, sworn affidavits, video footage, and the bypassing of state legislators to create illegal election-related laws and procedures that widespread fraud was committed.  However, lower courts would not accept the cases presented to them and ruled against the complaints without any evidentiary hearings to look at and consider the evidence."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 24, 2021, 05:45:24 PM
@Tom

Crooked AZ politicians finally give up

https://thedcpatriot.com/one-hour-after-biden-is-sworn-in-arizona-senate-president-releases-evidence-of-voter-fraud/

(https://i.imgur.com/AzO12Kj.png)

Please link to the evidence, if you are sure it exists.  I'm sure you've seen it.  Right?

Also:
1. If judges are dropping cases based on procedural issues, why are lawyers getting these procedural issues so wrong?  Why are they not doing their jobs and why haven't thry fixed the error and resubmitted the case?

2. Why do you claim judges don't want to overturn an election but spent (days?) Looking for evidence of a judge overturning an election?  It contradicts your argument.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 24, 2021, 05:47:50 PM
Wrong. The legislative body had already declared and determined that there was fraud and that the data would contain further evidence of fraud, and used its authority and power to issue these subpoenas. That's why it is permissible to say that they are handing over evidence of fraud.

Well the legislative body can say anything they want to, but it's up to a Judge to decide if their evidence is valid, or if they have any evidence at all.

So far, no Judge has ruled that fraud occured, showing that there is no evidence.

Quote
The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence. They were very clear on this.

You have provided zero sources on this claim that they assessed the merits of the bulk of the fraud cases, while I have provided plenty to the contrary.

Have 60.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/08/joe-biden/joe-biden-right-more-60-trumps-election-lawsuits-l/

Here is one judge from Pennsylvania ruling on one of Trumps factless lawsuits before throwing it out:

"Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here."

You still have not provided quotes which say that the bulk of the cases were decided on merit. The only quote in that link of anything like that comes from Joe Biden.

I directly quoted a Judge saying a Trump case had no merit. I think that certainly qualifies as a valid quote showing that cases were considered on the merits. And for the ones that were dismissed because Trump's lawyers filed cases full of mistakes and using the wrong laws and made other errors that made their cases invalid? That's Trumps fault, not the Judges.  If you want court cases not to be dismissed, you need evidence and to file them without glaring errors and fraudulent practices.

All the dismissed cases are simply proof that Trump can't hire lawyers who know what their doing.

The fact that Trump lost 61 of 62 cases is also very good evidence that the bulk of his lawsuits have none. In fact the only one he won was a lawsuit stopping PA from letting voters fix errors and typos on their addresses. Big win, he stopped a handful of voters from voting. It showed no evidence of fraud.

Here are some more quotes from the Judges who threw them out.

"Judges consistently found there was no substantive evidence to support claims of fraud and irregularities — that Biden’s votes were, in fact, legal votes." - From the article

“This Court has allowed plaintiff the chance to make his case and he has lost on the merits.” - District Judge Brett H. Ludwig

Trump’s campaign “did not prove under any standard of proof that illegal votes were cast and counted, or legal votes were not counted at all, due to voter fraud, nor in an amount equal to or greater than” Biden’s margin in Nevada - District Court Judge James T. Russell

“Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.” - Judge Stephanos Bibas

“Allegations that find favor in the public sphere of gossip and innuendo cannot be a substitute for earnest pleadings and procedure in federal court.” - District Court Judge Diane J. Humetewa

“Plaintiffs have not moved the needle for their fraud theory from conceivable to plausible, which they must do to state a claim under Federal pleading standards,”  - Also from District Court Judge Diane J. Humetewa

 “The court finds that there is no credible or reliable evidence that the 2020 General Election in Nevada was affected by fraud.” - Nevada District Judge James Russell

“This Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence,” - U.S. District Court Judge Matthew W. Brann

I have now provided quotes from eight Judges showing that those cases had no evidence.

I asked you to provide a quote from a JUDGE where he accepted evidence of Democratic fraud.  All your quotes are from reporters and news articles and lawyers.  Those are not Judges.

If there are mountains of evidence, why isn't any of it being used in court?  Where is this evidence of fraud in any of these lawsuits?  Funny how it's talked about but not used.

I ask again, where have any Judges said that they accept submitted facts showing Democratic fraud? Please provide quotes from Judges in the cases, not the lawyers or TV personalities.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 24, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
lol politifact.
Indeed. And herein lies your problem.
Any source which doesn’t say what you want it to...the source is wrong or biased.
Any source that does and to you it’s gospel. It’s telling that you continue to post links to the same sources which have been filling you with false hope for the last 2 months.
It’s not my opinion that it’s been false hope - Biden is the President. You’ve spent the last 2 months jumping from one false hope to the next.

“The courts are going to save us.”
“It’s good the courts are rejecting the cases, that just clears the path to the SCOTUS”
“The Kraken will save us”

You even went so far as to think the inauguration may be interrupted and Trump reinstalled, desperately trying to interpret Trump’s use of the word “transition” to mean something other than than what it actually means.

And here we are. Biden is the President, like we all told you he would be.

And here you are now still thinking that could change. It won’t. As others have said, how long are you going to keep this up? How long are you going to continue to hang on the words of the same sources whose previous stories have been shown false?

I’m sorry you didn’t want Biden as President. I didn’t want Brexit but here we are. As the Brexiteers oft used to say to us, “you lost, get over it”.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 24, 2021, 05:59:38 PM
The lawsuits are so shit that they can’t even find a proper defendant or show an injury that needs to be redressed or isn’t moot. Surely if they could get over that hurdle it would be a slam dunk. Surely.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on January 24, 2021, 07:57:53 PM
I wonder if we will start to see a turning of the tide?

Biden is making enemies of Google, Facebook, Twitter et al. I wonder if they will begin a fight back soon? Hunter Biden stories promoted to the top of searches. Stories of dementia following. The gushing praise Biden is getting having accomplished literally zero coming to a halt. I wonder if big tech over played their hand and will soon rue the day they sided with the rotten Democrats? Will be fun to watch as a conservative. Big Tech vs Liberal government. I literally don't give a shit which one of them gets wrecked.

How is he making enemies of them?

Because he is looking to alter section 230
https://www.businessinsider.com/future-of-section-230-democrats-both-houses-2021-1?r=US&IR=T

and break up big tech firms
https://www.afr.com/technology/biden-tipped-to-be-aggressive-in-big-tech-break-up-20210119-p56v9g

Do you live under a rock? Why do you know so little about the guy YOU voted for? 🙄
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2021, 08:04:18 PM
Wrong. The legislative body had already declared and determined that there was fraud and that the data would contain further evidence of fraud, and used its authority and power to issue these subpoenas. That's why it is permissible to say that they are handing over evidence of fraud.

Well the legislative body can say anything they want to, but it's up to a Judge to decide if their evidence is valid, or if they have any evidence at all.

So far, no Judge has ruled that fraud occured, showing that there is no evidence.

Quote
The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence. They were very clear on this.

You have provided zero sources on this claim that they assessed the merits of the bulk of the fraud cases, while I have provided plenty to the contrary.

Have 60.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/08/joe-biden/joe-biden-right-more-60-trumps-election-lawsuits-l/

Here is one judge from Pennsylvania ruling on one of Trumps factless lawsuits before throwing it out:

"Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here."

You still have not provided quotes which say that the bulk of the cases were decided on merit. The only quote in that link of anything like that comes from Joe Biden.

I directly quoted a Judge saying a Trump case had no merit. I think that certainly qualifies as a valid quote showing that cases were considered on the merits. And for the ones that were dismissed because Trump's lawyers filed cases full of mistakes and using the wrong laws and made other errors that made their cases invalid? That's Trumps fault, not the Judges.  If you want court cases not to be dismissed, you need evidence and to file them without glaring errors and fraudulent practices.

All the dismissed cases are simply proof that Trump can't hire lawyers who know what their doing.

The fact that Trump lost 61 of 62 cases is also very good evidence that the bulk of his lawsuits have none. In fact the only one he won was a lawsuit stopping PA from letting voters fix errors and typos on their addresses. Big win, he stopped a handful of voters from voting. It showed no evidence of fraud.

Here are some more quotes from the Judges who threw them out.

"Judges consistently found there was no substantive evidence to support claims of fraud and irregularities — that Biden’s votes were, in fact, legal votes." - From the article

“This Court has allowed plaintiff the chance to make his case and he has lost on the merits.” - District Judge Brett H. Ludwig

Trump’s campaign “did not prove under any standard of proof that illegal votes were cast and counted, or legal votes were not counted at all, due to voter fraud, nor in an amount equal to or greater than” Biden’s margin in Nevada - District Court Judge James T. Russell

“Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.” - Judge Stephanos Bibas

“Allegations that find favor in the public sphere of gossip and innuendo cannot be a substitute for earnest pleadings and procedure in federal court.” - District Court Judge Diane J. Humetewa

“Plaintiffs have not moved the needle for their fraud theory from conceivable to plausible, which they must do to state a claim under Federal pleading standards,”  - Also from District Court Judge Diane J. Humetewa

 “The court finds that there is no credible or reliable evidence that the 2020 General Election in Nevada was affected by fraud.” - Nevada District Judge James Russell

“This Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence,” - U.S. District Court Judge Matthew W. Brann

I have now provided quotes from eight Judges showing that those cases had no evidence.

I asked you to provide a quote from a JUDGE where he accepted evidence of Democratic fraud.  All your quotes are from reporters and news articles and lawyers.  Those are not Judges.

If there are mountains of evidence, why isn't any of it being used in court?  Where is this evidence of fraud in any of these lawsuits?  Funny how it's talked about but not used.

I ask again, where have any Judges said that they accept submitted facts showing Democratic fraud? Please provide quotes from Judges in the cases, not the lawyers or TV personalities.

You quoted two judges twice in there, bolded above Looks like you don't really have much.

And we have discussed some of those quotes and they are not actually talking about the fraud cases. They are talking about the procedural cases .There are fraud cases and cases complaining that the state did not properly follow the law. You have some quotes from those mixed in with your quotes; IE the 'strained legal arguments' quote. That's not actually talking about a case about voter fraud.

By providing only a few quotes from judges about merit in a particular case you have not provided evidence that the bulk of the "60 cases" were decided on merit, or that the voter fraud cases did not have merit. In fact, you shown the opposite, that you are unable to substantiate this claim.

Since you are unable to substantiate your claim, kindly cease from repeating this lie.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 24, 2021, 08:17:31 PM
You quoted two judges twice in there.

I quoted one on purpose twice, but did not notice the other, my mistake.  So I have quotes from 7 different Judges saying they found the evidence to be lacking instead of 8.

And we have discussed some of those quotes and they are not actually talking about the fraud cases. They are talking about the procedural cases .There are fraud cases and cases complaining that the state did not properly follow the law. You have some quotes from those mixed in with your quotes.

By providing a few direct quotes from judges about merit, you have not provided evidence that the bulk of the cases were decided on merit. In fact, you show that you are unable to substantiate this claim.

You have shifted the goalposts here. This is what I said: "The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence."

I said it was a myth that no judges considered the merits of the case. I've supplied several quotes that show that in fact several did. This substantiates my claim.

You moved the goalposts to now demand I show the 'bulk' of the lawsuits were on merits, but that was not my claim.

I agree that a large number of the lawsuits were thrown out due to Trump's lawyers filing them incorrectly and making large mistakes that got them thrown out. That is only proof that his lawyers are pretty bad, and not very supportive of any argument that Trump is about to suddenly start winning cases. They have had plenty of time to re-file them correctly, if they had any evidence to back them up.

I am still waiting to see any evidence at all of massive Democratic fraud that's been accepted by a Judge. If you can't provide any, I stand by my claim that no credible evidence of it exists.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2021, 08:19:11 PM
Take a look at one of your other quotes. The Ludwig case was not a fraud case, and wouldn't support your argument that there is no fraud because the bulk of fraud cases were dismissed on merit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/12/us/trump-election-lawsuit-wisconsin.html

"“This court has allowed the plaintiff the chance to make his case,” Judge Ludwig wrote, “and he has lost on the merits.”

The suit in Milwaukee in many ways echoed the petition filed by Texas, which was backed by 17 Republican attorneys general and more than 100 Republican members of the House of Representatives.

Unlike other legal challenges by the president, the suit in Milwaukee did not allege that voting fraud took place in Wisconsin. Rather, it accused a group of state and local election officials of violating state law by expanding the manner in which absentee ballots were received and processed this year in an unusual election that took place during a pandemic."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 24, 2021, 08:23:02 PM
Wrong. The legislative body had already declared and determined that there was fraud and that the data would contain further evidence of fraud, and used its authority and power to issue these subpoenas. That's why it is permissible to say that they are handing over evidence of fraud.

Well the legislative body can say anything they want to, but it's up to a Judge to decide if their evidence is valid, or if they have any evidence at all.

So far, no Judge has ruled that fraud occured, showing that there is no evidence.

Quote
The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence. They were very clear on this.

You have provided zero sources on this claim that they assessed the merits of the bulk of the fraud cases, while I have provided plenty to the contrary.

Have 60.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/08/joe-biden/joe-biden-right-more-60-trumps-election-lawsuits-l/

Here is one judge from Pennsylvania ruling on one of Trumps factless lawsuits before throwing it out:

"Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here."

You still have not provided quotes which say that the bulk of the cases were decided on merit. The only quote in that link of anything like that comes from Joe Biden.

I directly quoted a Judge saying a Trump case had no merit. I think that certainly qualifies as a valid quote showing that cases were considered on the merits. And for the ones that were dismissed because Trump's lawyers filed cases full of mistakes and using the wrong laws and made other errors that made their cases invalid? That's Trumps fault, not the Judges.  If you want court cases not to be dismissed, you need evidence and to file them without glaring errors and fraudulent practices.

All the dismissed cases are simply proof that Trump can't hire lawyers who know what their doing.

The fact that Trump lost 61 of 62 cases is also very good evidence that the bulk of his lawsuits have none. In fact the only one he won was a lawsuit stopping PA from letting voters fix errors and typos on their addresses. Big win, he stopped a handful of voters from voting. It showed no evidence of fraud.

Here are some more quotes from the Judges who threw them out.

"Judges consistently found there was no substantive evidence to support claims of fraud and irregularities — that Biden’s votes were, in fact, legal votes." - From the article

“This Court has allowed plaintiff the chance to make his case and he has lost on the merits.” - District Judge Brett H. Ludwig

Trump’s campaign “did not prove under any standard of proof that illegal votes were cast and counted, or legal votes were not counted at all, due to voter fraud, nor in an amount equal to or greater than” Biden’s margin in Nevada - District Court Judge James T. Russell

“Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.” - Judge Stephanos Bibas

“Allegations that find favor in the public sphere of gossip and innuendo cannot be a substitute for earnest pleadings and procedure in federal court.” - District Court Judge Diane J. Humetewa

“Plaintiffs have not moved the needle for their fraud theory from conceivable to plausible, which they must do to state a claim under Federal pleading standards,”  - Also from District Court Judge Diane J. Humetewa

 “The court finds that there is no credible or reliable evidence that the 2020 General Election in Nevada was affected by fraud.” - Nevada District Judge James Russell

“This Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence,” - U.S. District Court Judge Matthew W. Brann

I have now provided quotes from eight Judges showing that those cases had no evidence.

I asked you to provide a quote from a JUDGE where he accepted evidence of Democratic fraud.  All your quotes are from reporters and news articles and lawyers.  Those are not Judges.

If there are mountains of evidence, why isn't any of it being used in court?  Where is this evidence of fraud in any of these lawsuits?  Funny how it's talked about but not used.

I ask again, where have any Judges said that they accept submitted facts showing Democratic fraud? Please provide quotes from Judges in the cases, not the lawyers or TV personalities.

You quoted two judges twice in there, bolded above Looks like you don't really have much.

And we have discussed some of those quotes and they are not actually talking about the fraud cases. They are talking about the procedural cases .There are fraud cases and cases complaining that the state did not properly follow the law. You have some quotes from those mixed in with your quotes; IE the 'strained legal arguments' quote. That's not actually talking about a case about voter fraud.

By providing only a few quotes from judges about merit in a particular case you have not provided evidence that the bulk of the "60 cases" were decided on merit, or that the voter fraud cases did not have merit. In fact, you shown the opposite, that you are unable to substantiate this claim.

Since you are unable to substantiate your claim, kindly cease from repeating this lie.

If you want to talk about unsubstantiated lies, what fraud evidenced was released "One Hour After Biden Sworn In..."? What was the evidence and who released it?

And if you really want to talk about unsubstantiated lies, how are we doing with your Falconer and Survivor contestant's terabytes of treasonous evidence against the Obama administration? We're still waiting on that. What's the hold-up now?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 24, 2021, 08:36:41 PM
Take a look at one of your other quotes. The Ludwig case was not a fraud case, and wouldn't support your argument that there is no fraud because the bulk of fraud cases were dismissed on merit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/12/us/trump-election-lawsuit-wisconsin.html

"“This court has allowed the plaintiff the chance to make his case,” Judge Ludwig wrote, “and he has lost on the merits.”

The suit in Milwaukee in many ways echoed the petition filed by Texas, which was backed by 17 Republican attorneys general and more than 100 Republican members of the House of Representatives.

Unlike other legal challenges by the president, the suit in Milwaukee did not allege that voting fraud took place in Wisconsin. Rather, it accused a group of state and local election officials of violating state law by expanding the manner in which absentee ballots were received and processed this year in an unusual election that took place during a pandemic."

If you want to focus on the word fraud, why not examine these three quotes?  This is also you shifting the goalposts, I did not limit my statement to 'fraud' either. That's twice you have done that.

Trump’s campaign “did not prove under any standard of proof that illegal votes were cast and counted, or legal votes were not counted at all, due to voter fraud, nor in an amount equal to or greater than” Biden’s margin in Nevada - District Court Judge James T. Russell

“Plaintiffs have not moved the needle for their fraud theory from conceivable to plausible, which they must do to state a claim under Federal pleading standards,”  - District Court Judge Diane J. Humetewa

“The court finds that there is no credible or reliable evidence that the 2020 General Election in Nevada was affected by fraud.” - Nevada District Judge James Russell

This shows conclusively that some judges did rule on the merits of the case, and found the evidence to be entirely lacking. Which is exactly what I claimed.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2021, 08:41:27 PM
If you want to talk about unsubstantiated lies, what fraud evidenced was released "One Hour After Biden Sworn In..."? What was the evidence and who released it?

And if you really want to talk about unsubstantiated lies, how are we doing with your Falconer and Survivor contestant's terabytes of treasonous evidence against the Obama administration? We're still waiting on that. What's the hold-up now?

I gave you a quote that it was already decided that the data contained evidence of fraud. Look into why that was decided if you are interested.

If you want to talk about Obama now, and claims that someone made, then it looks like you have given up and are out of ammo, in your poor attempt at substantiating your claims.

If you want to focus on the word fraud, why not examine these three quotes?  This is also you shifting the goalposts, I did not limit my statement to 'fraud' either. That's twice you have done that.

Trump’s campaign “did not prove under any standard of proof that illegal votes were cast and counted, or legal votes were not counted at all, due to voter fraud, nor in an amount equal to or greater than” Biden’s margin in Nevada - District Court Judge James T. Russell

“Plaintiffs have not moved the needle for their fraud theory from conceivable to plausible, which they must do to state a claim under Federal pleading standards,”  - District Court Judge Diane J. Humetewa

“The court finds that there is no credible or reliable evidence that the 2020 General Election in Nevada was affected by fraud.” - Nevada District Judge James Russell

This shows conclusively that some judges did rule on the merits of the case, and found the evidence to be entirely lacking. Which is exactly what I claimed.

You provided quotes from two judges here.

You are supposed to be showing that the bulk of the 60 cases were dismissed on merit, or that the bulk of the voter fraud cases were dismissed on merit, to allow you to keep using this claim about the courts finding no merit to voter fraud.

It is you who is "shifting the goal posts". It is repeated that the courts found no validity to voter fraud, so you need to show that the bulk of the cases were dismissed on merit.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 24, 2021, 08:48:46 PM
If you want to talk about unsubstantiated lies, what fraud evidenced was released "One Hour After Biden Sworn In..."? What was the evidence and who released it?

And if you really want to talk about unsubstantiated lies, how are we doing with your Falconer and Survivor contestant's terabytes of treasonous evidence against the Obama administration? We're still waiting on that. What's the hold-up now?

I gave you a quote that it was already decided that the data contained evidence of fraud. Look into why that was decided if you are interested.

If you want to talk about Obama now, and claims that someone made, then it looks like you have given up and are out of ammo, in your poor attempt at substantiating your claims.

If you want to focus on the word fraud, why not examine these three quotes?  This is also you shifting the goalposts, I did not limit my statement to 'fraud' either. That's twice you have done that.

Trump’s campaign “did not prove under any standard of proof that illegal votes were cast and counted, or legal votes were not counted at all, due to voter fraud, nor in an amount equal to or greater than” Biden’s margin in Nevada - District Court Judge James T. Russell

“Plaintiffs have not moved the needle for their fraud theory from conceivable to plausible, which they must do to state a claim under Federal pleading standards,”  - District Court Judge Diane J. Humetewa

“The court finds that there is no credible or reliable evidence that the 2020 General Election in Nevada was affected by fraud.” - Nevada District Judge James Russell

This shows conclusively that some judges did rule on the merits of the case, and found the evidence to be entirely lacking. Which is exactly what I claimed.

You provided quotes from two judges here.

You are supposed to be showing that the bulk of the 60 cases were dismissed on merit, or that the bulk of the voter fraud cases were dismissed on merit, to allow you to keep using this claim about the courts finding no merit to voter fraud.

No I am not supposed to be showing that, re-read my claim that started this.

The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence.

You added the condition they must be 'fraud'. You added the condition that 'the bulk' of them must be. You can not shift the goalposts and demand I prove your argument.

I have proven that some judges did indeed consider the case on it's merits, and rejected it.

If you want to claim that there was valid evidence that was rejected due to Trump's lawers making mistakes and filing them incorrectly, it's up to you to show them.  I've shown exactly what I claimed.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 24, 2021, 08:50:37 PM
Trump’s lawsuits were “supposed” to have standing to be worthwhile. I guess Tom is going to continue to be disappointed by things that were “supposed” to happen the way he wished, but didn’t.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2021, 08:58:02 PM
If you want to talk about unsubstantiated lies, what fraud evidenced was released "One Hour After Biden Sworn In..."? What was the evidence and who released it?

And if you really want to talk about unsubstantiated lies, how are we doing with your Falconer and Survivor contestant's terabytes of treasonous evidence against the Obama administration? We're still waiting on that. What's the hold-up now?

I gave you a quote that it was already decided that the data contained evidence of fraud. Look into why that was decided if you are interested.

If you want to talk about Obama now, and claims that someone made, then it looks like you have given up and are out of ammo, in your poor attempt at substantiating your claims.

If you want to focus on the word fraud, why not examine these three quotes?  This is also you shifting the goalposts, I did not limit my statement to 'fraud' either. That's twice you have done that.

Trump’s campaign “did not prove under any standard of proof that illegal votes were cast and counted, or legal votes were not counted at all, due to voter fraud, nor in an amount equal to or greater than” Biden’s margin in Nevada - District Court Judge James T. Russell

“Plaintiffs have not moved the needle for their fraud theory from conceivable to plausible, which they must do to state a claim under Federal pleading standards,”  - District Court Judge Diane J. Humetewa

“The court finds that there is no credible or reliable evidence that the 2020 General Election in Nevada was affected by fraud.” - Nevada District Judge James Russell

This shows conclusively that some judges did rule on the merits of the case, and found the evidence to be entirely lacking. Which is exactly what I claimed.

You provided quotes from two judges here.

You are supposed to be showing that the bulk of the 60 cases were dismissed on merit, or that the bulk of the voter fraud cases were dismissed on merit, to allow you to keep using this claim about the courts finding no merit to voter fraud.

No I am not supposed to be showing that, re-read my claim that started this.

The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence.

You added the condition they must be 'fraud'. You added the condition that 'the bulk' of them must be. You can not shift the goalposts and demand I prove your argument.

I have proven that some judges did indeed consider the case on it's merits, and rejected it.

If you want to claim that there was valid evidence that was rejected due to Trump's lawers making mistakes and filing them incorrectly, it's up to you to show them.  I've shown exactly what I claimed.

I did read your post and you were talking about fraud in your post. Don't backtrack and try to play word games now. You speak about fraud all through the post and try to use the cases as evidence that there is no voter fraud.

Quote
In the Stinson case, there were a large number of fraudulent votes that had been discovered and proven. To date, nobody has found 7 million fake votes for Biden. Even after multiple hand recounts in several battleground states.

If any real evidence [for voter fraud] existed it would have been presented in one of the hundred odd GOP lawsuits that got tossed out due to a total lack of evidence.  The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence. They were very clear on this.

Biden won, legitimately and honestly and is not going to be removed by any fantasy lawsuit with nonexistent evidence. He won by over 7 million votes. Nobody has been able to show any large scale fraud. In fact in Pennsylvania after an extremely detailed check found only three fraudulent votes. Three. All voting

I have added in the brackets above "[for voter fraud]". You are clearly talking about voter fraud in that post, and think that the cases prove that there is no voter fraud. No need to lie to us now.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 24, 2021, 08:59:33 PM
If you want to talk about unsubstantiated lies, what fraud evidenced was released "One Hour After Biden Sworn In..."? What was the evidence and who released it?

And if you really want to talk about unsubstantiated lies, how are we doing with your Falconer and Survivor contestant's terabytes of treasonous evidence against the Obama administration? We're still waiting on that. What's the hold-up now?

I gave you a quote that it was already decided that the data contained evidence of fraud. Look into why that was decided if you are interested.

You didn't answer the question, what fraud evidence, specifically, was released "One Hour After Biden Sworn In..."?  That's your claim. Back it up.

If you want to talk about Obama now, and claims that someone made, then it looks like you have given up and are out of ammo, in your poor attempt at substantiating your claims.

I don't necessarily want to talk about it. It's just exemplary of the sheer metric ton of unsubstantiated claims you glom on to without a smidge of evidence. All because your narrative has been shown to be false. And your Falconer and Survivor contestant's terabytes of treasonous evidence against the Obama administration just so happens to be one of the more fantastical ones you were hanging on to. And then "poof", it disappeared. All in all, you have have less than zero credibility when it comes to your claims, as evidenced by everything you've put forth for the past couple of months.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 24, 2021, 09:20:36 PM
You provided quotes from two judges here.

You are supposed to be showing that the bulk of the 60 cases were dismissed on merit, or that the bulk of the voter fraud cases were dismissed on merit, to allow you to keep using this claim about the courts finding no merit to voter fraud.

No I am not supposed to be showing that, re-read my claim that started this.

The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence.

You added the condition they must be 'fraud'. You added the condition that 'the bulk' of them must be. You can not shift the goalposts and demand I prove your argument.

I have proven that some judges did indeed consider the case on it's merits, and rejected it.

If you want to claim that there was valid evidence that was rejected due to Trump's lawers making mistakes and filing them incorrectly, it's up to you to show them.  I've shown exactly what I claimed.

I did read your post and you were talking about fraud in your post. Don't backtrack and try to play word games now. You speak about fraud all through the post and try to use the cases as evidence that there is no voter fraud.

Quote
In the Stinson case, there were a large number of fraudulent votes that had been discovered and proven. To date, nobody has found 7 million fake votes for Biden. Even after multiple hand recounts in several battleground states.

If any real evidence [for voter fraud] existed it would have been presented in one of the hundred odd GOP lawsuits that got tossed out due to a total lack of evidence.  The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence. They were very clear on this.

Biden won, legitimately and honestly and is not going to be removed by any fantasy lawsuit with nonexistent evidence. He won by over 7 million votes. Nobody has been able to show any large scale fraud. In fact in Pennsylvania after an extremely detailed check found only three fraudulent votes. Three. All voting

I have added in the brackets above "[for voter fraud]". You are clearly talking about voter fraud in that post, and think that the cases prove that there is no voter fraud. No need to lie to us now.

Please don't call me a liar unless you can prove intent, that's a very strong word to throw around.

This is what you quoted me as saying. This is the entirety of what you quoted me as saying.

Quote
The whole 'no judges considered any lawsuits on the merits' is a myth, plenty of judges specifically took the Trump lawyers to task for not providing any evidence. They were very clear on this.
You have provided zero sources on this claim that they assessed the merits of the bulk of the fraud cases, while I have provided plenty to the contrary.

Nowhere in that quote did I say that 'the bulk' of the lawsuits were decided on the merits, you added that one yourself.  Nowhere in that quote did I state that I was talking only about fraud, I didn't even mention fraud. I said evidence. If I had meant 'only fraud' I would have said so. Evidence includes fraud, it is not limited to only fraud so shy should my examples?

You added [for voter fraud] because you ASSUMED I was talking about fraud and only fraud, when what I actually said was evidence. You are free to assume things, you are not free to demand I agree with you.  Especially when I wrote them and know exactly what I meant, and did write.

Just to make things clear, I never even remotely indicated that the ONLY kind of voting irregularities was 'fraud' and was specifically excluding all other forms. I did not restrict my claim to just a subset of Trumps lost cases. So by saying I can only now use quotes with the word 'fraud' in them is shifting the goalposts at best.

I stand by my claim that saying no judges considered the merits of any of Trumps cases is false. And I am confident my quotes back me up.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 24, 2021, 09:38:13 PM
You didn't answer the question, what fraud evidence, specifically, was released "One Hour After Biden Sworn In..."?  That's your claim. Back it up.

I did back it up. It was declared that it was evidence of voter fraud by the judiciary committee. I provided a quote on that. That's why it can be called evidence of voter fraud. If you want more details on the type and kind of evidence that committee has determined, do your own research. I never made a claim on any specificity they determined.


Quote from: stack
I don't necessarily want to talk about it. It's just exemplary of the sheer metric ton of unsubstantiated claims you glom on to without a smidge of evidence. All because your narrative has been shown to be false. And your Falconer and Survivor contestant's terabytes of treasonous evidence against the Obama administration just so happens to be one of the more fantastical ones you were hanging on to. And then "poof", it disappeared. All in all, you have have less than zero credibility when it comes to your claims, as evidenced by everything you've put forth for the past couple of months.

You were incorrect and wrong about that too. You do not know what evidence is. Claims are evidence. Someone's word is considered to be evidence.

If someone makes a claim or accusation it is considered to be evidence, and is worth talking about.

See the following:

From https://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/I07_0020.htm on rape accusations:

""'[T]he testimony of a single witness [can be enough] to support a conviction'" (People v Schulz, 4 NY3d 521, 530 [2005] quoting People v Arroyo, 54 NY2d 567, 578 [1982]). Although corroboration is not necessary in support of a rape prosecution, the underage victim's testimony was bolstered by her prompt outcry the morning after the first rape occurred..."

From https://www.justice.gov/atr/case-document/united-states-proposed-jury-instructions on jury instructions:

"Similarly, the government is not required to prove the essential elements of the offense by any particular number of witnesses, or by every witness. The testimony of a single witness can be sufficient to convince you beyond a reasonable doubt of the existence of an essential element of the offense charged if you believe that the witness was truthful."

All it takes is for a single claim and for the jury to think that they are truthful.

Ask a lawyer: https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/-so-if-there-is-no-physical-evidence-other-than-wi-1717488.html

Q: “So If there is no physical evidence other than withness testimony, can one still be convicted? Would it be hard for the prosecution to get a conviction?”

Benjamin David Goldberg
Criminal Defense Attorney in Marietta, GA

A: "The answer to your first question is yes. In fact, judges often instruct juries that the testimony of a single witness is sufficient to establish a fact. That means that, for most offenses, a person can be convicted based solely on another person's testimony (unless that other person is an accomplice). The second question is impossible to answer without knowing all the facts and circumstances of the particular case."

https://www.slgattorneysflorida.com/the-state-only-has-one-witness-isn-t-that-hearsay.html

"We often get questions about whether the State can convict you of a crime when they only have one single witness in a "he said/she said" type of case. We usually get the question, "Isn't that hearsay?" Is "he said/she said" testimony hearsay and inadmissible?

No. Eyewitness testimony is not hearsay. Hearsay relates to when a witness testifies about an out of court statement. For example, if Jill testifies, "John told me that Phil punched him," this statement is hearsay because Jill is testifying about John's out of court statement. Now if John testifies that Phil punched him, that is not hearsay, because John is testifying to what happened, not what somebody told him.

Also, hearsay is not always inadmissible. There are many exceptions to the hearsay rule where an out of court statement would be admissible."

https://splinternews.com/people-are-convicted-based-on-one-witness-all-the-time-1829367479

People Are Convicted Based on One Witness All The Time

"I rob you on a dark, deserted street at night. You call the police. You describe me. The police find me. You confirm it was me. You testify against me. I go to jail. This sort of thing is completely normal.

Sure, the police and prosecutors would like to have as much evidence as possible. They would like to have another witness, or my DNA, or to find the items that I stole from you in my possession. But if they don’t have any of those additional things—if they only have your own testimony that I robbed you—I have news for you: they will still arrest me. And, if the jury finds your testimony to be credible, they will find me guilty, and I will go to jail."
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 24, 2021, 11:36:13 PM
But probably not on Melissa Carone’s word.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 25, 2021, 12:59:58 AM
You didn't answer the question, what fraud evidence, specifically, was released "One Hour After Biden Sworn In..."?  That's your claim. Back it up.

I did back it up. It was declared that it was evidence of voter fraud by the judiciary committee. I provided a quote on that. That's why it can be called evidence of voter fraud. If you want more details on the type and kind of evidence that committee has determined, do your own research. I never made a claim on any specificity they determined.


Quote from: stack
I don't necessarily want to talk about it. It's just exemplary of the sheer metric ton of unsubstantiated claims you glom on to without a smidge of evidence. All because your narrative has been shown to be false. And your Falconer and Survivor contestant's terabytes of treasonous evidence against the Obama administration just so happens to be one of the more fantastical ones you were hanging on to. And then "poof", it disappeared. All in all, you have have less than zero credibility when it comes to your claims, as evidenced by everything you've put forth for the past couple of months.

You were incorrect and wrong about that too. You do not know what evidence is. Claims are evidence. Someone's word is considered to be evidence.

If someone makes a claim or accusation it is considered to be evidence, and is worth talking about.

Cool. So what's the update on the terabytes of treasonous evidence your Falconer and Survivor contestant have on the Obama admin including Joe Biden? The way you were all fired up about the metric ton of evidence they had for their claims - that it would not only take out Biden but erase the entire Obama legacy - seems pretty awesome and a Kraken x10 from your perspective. Do you still support their claims? What's the latest? I mean voter fraud is one thing, but having Navy Seals murdered to conceal a false flag operation seems way, way more devastating. Way more than say, Melissa Carone’s evidence.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 25, 2021, 04:45:01 AM
If you are seeking updates to something you should probably look into it.

There have been updates and further claims about that. Deceased seal team six member Aaron Vaughn is claiming that his death on the helicopter crash didn't happen. Decide for yourself.

https://files.catbox.moe/e4e4oa.mp4

https://i.ibb.co/stmhJpn/55ecacd.png

https://thefallen.militarytimes.com/navy-chief-special-warfare-operator-seal-aaron-c-vaughn/6567924
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: crutonius on January 25, 2021, 04:54:14 AM
I'm with Tom Here.  But I think we first need to investigate the equally compelling evidence that Jimmy Carter's election was stolen! 

He's first in line for a makeup term.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 25, 2021, 05:11:55 AM
If you are seeking updates to something you should probably look into it.

There have been updates and further claims about that. Deceased seal team six member Aaron Vaughn is claiming that his death on the helicopter crash didn't happen. Decide for yourself.

https://files.catbox.moe/e4e4oa.mp4

https://i.ibb.co/stmhJpn/55ecacd.png

https://thefallen.militarytimes.com/navy-chief-special-warfare-operator-seal-aaron-c-vaughn/6567924

Having viewed the evidence, I have determined it to be a fake.
I've seen more compelling evidence that Elvis is alive.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 25, 2021, 10:07:04 AM
All it takes is for a single claim and for the jury to think that they are truthful.

Wow. And Trump had thousands of people swearing affidavits and not a single one was found credible.
(In b4 you say they weren't even heard - I've shown you a video of the judge dismissing the affidavits and talking about what poor quality they were)
As I keep saying to you, not all evidence is created equal. Anyone can claim anything. As you repeatedly demonstrate, you can find "evidence" online which backs up pretty much any viewpoint. Not every source is equally credible or reliable.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 25, 2021, 11:44:31 AM
All it takes is for a single claim and for the jury to think that they are truthful.

Wow. And Trump had thousands of people swearing affidavits and not a single one was found credible.
(In b4 you say they weren't even heard - I've shown you a video of the judge dismissing the affidavits and talking about what poor quality they were)
As I keep saying to you, not all evidence is created equal. Anyone can claim anything. As you repeatedly demonstrate, you can find "evidence" online which backs up pretty much any viewpoint. Not every source is equally credible or reliable.

Tom trusts the afadaviat of a random poll worker before the statement of Barr, the DOJ head at the time.
So his "appeal to authority"  is very one sided.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 25, 2021, 12:20:29 PM
If you are seeking updates to something you should probably look into it.

There have been updates and further claims about that. Deceased seal team six member Aaron Vaughn is claiming that his death on the helicopter crash didn't happen. Decide for yourself.

https://files.catbox.moe/e4e4oa.mp4

https://i.ibb.co/stmhJpn/55ecacd.png

https://thefallen.militarytimes.com/navy-chief-special-warfare-operator-seal-aaron-c-vaughn/6567924

I am deciding for myself that believing in a massive conspiracy and accusing people of murder based on a picture is just sad.

(https://i.ibb.co/stmhJpn/55ecacd.png)

Finding pictures of two people that have similar facial features isn't that hard.  Here is an example of four people that even have the exact same name.  It's not evidence of anything except it's easy to find two people that look similar when you have a few billion to pick from.

(https://i.imgur.com/oESrHHv.jpg)

Obama and Hillary didn't murder seal team six, and Trump lost the election. If there is evidence to the contrary, I haven't seen it, and I have seen plenty of evidence that shows both claims to be false at best, and slanderous lies at worst.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 25, 2021, 02:25:10 PM
I don't know.That curley-cue is pretty damning...Must be the same guy...

(https://i.imgur.com/FQsXyQ8.jpg)

I guess it should never surprise me to see how low people can go just to support their narrative.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 25, 2021, 04:07:18 PM
I don't know.That curley-cue is pretty damning...Must be the same guy...

He also got an ear-tuck as well, those are not the same shape.

The funny thing is you could pick random pictures of the same person mixed in with other people and have a hard time telling them apart. The same thing was done with the Challenger crew, including harassment of the families and innocent people. All because some names and faces looked similar. This is the danger of falling into the conspiracy theory rabbit hole.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 25, 2021, 05:14:54 PM
I don't know.That curley-cue is pretty damning...Must be the same guy...

He also got an ear-tuck as well, those are not the same shape.

The funny thing is you could pick random pictures of the same person mixed in with other people and have a hard time telling them apart. The same thing was done with the Challenger crew, including harassment of the families and innocent people. All because some names and faces looked similar. This is the danger of falling into the conspiracy theory rabbit hole.
I saw a video of some poor soul who conspiracy nuts mistake for one of the Challenger crew who "secretly survived". He sounded quite frustrated at the number of people who contact him to ask him about it simply because he happens to have the same name as one of the crew and presumably has a passing similarity physically and confirmation bias does the rest to the hardened conspiracy theorist.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 25, 2021, 05:52:21 PM
Claiming that the person asserting to be a dead soldier looks like the dead soldier depicted does not appear to help your arguments that he is not that person.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 25, 2021, 05:59:50 PM
So photos do count as evidence now? Even one as grainy as in the right?

- freckles on neck are in different locations relative to Adam's apple
- folds on eyelids are drastically different
- teeth look different but its tough to tell
- WHY IS THE HAIR CIRCLED?
- cheek dimples/creases are different shapes and sizes
- left guys chin looks photoshopped/anomalously blurry
- guy on right has freckle on his right SCM, guy on left has a bump on his in a different location

Might as well point out that they have different shirts and the guy on the right has cool sunglasses...
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/beauty/g3479/best-celebrity-lookalikes-quiz/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 25, 2021, 06:37:01 PM
Claiming that the person asserting to be a dead soldier looks like the dead soldier depicted does not appear to help your arguments that he is not that person.

???

Who is doing that?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 25, 2021, 06:55:06 PM
Claiming that the person asserting to be a dead soldier looks like the dead soldier depicted does not appear to help your arguments that he is not that person.

Not understanding my point is not helping yours. I am claiming that it's trivial to find pictures of a person that looks like another person. Thus the example with your profile, and they even have the same name. Finding such a picture is not valid evidence any more than finding a person with the same name. These people are guaranteed to exist.

Have you stopped to wonder what the family of this dead solder must be thinking to see people like you spreading false conspiracy theories that they are still alive?  Do you not think that causes them pain to see them used to prop up some crazy political murder conspiracy?  These people lost a son, a husband, a father.  Do they not deserve any consideration?

(https://i.imgur.com/oESrHHv.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 26, 2021, 04:17:08 AM
This isn't a matter of searching through thousands of pictures. There is only a sample of one person making the claim here.

You also haven't provided examples anywhere near close. Aside from the hair and likeness, the person claiming to be the older dead soldier has similar facial deformities. A gash between his eyebrows, crooked non-symmeteic nose, dip in upper eyebrow.

(https://i.imgur.com/rL4sIn2.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/MzzUBFB.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/mhLXvVY.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/4LJkBxY.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 26, 2021, 04:59:19 AM
You know you're missing two moles around the neck, right?

Also, is this you?  Because I can't seem to find the original source of the (supposidly) dead marine.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 26, 2021, 05:03:27 AM
What the fuck is this and what does it have to do with Biden's landslide win?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 26, 2021, 01:23:19 PM
This isn't a matter of searching through thousands of pictures. There is only a sample of one person making the claim here.

You also aven't provided examples anywhere near close. Aside from the hair and likeness, the person claiming to be the older dead soldier has similar facial deformities. A gash between his eyebrows, crooked non-symmeteic nose, dip in upper eyebrow.

The top picture does indeed have extremely similar features. Other than the black wig, look at the mouth. Exact same expression and shape. Same lips. Same cheek dimples. Same nose. The ears look similar. The right eyebrow is arched exactly the same in both pictures.

If you claim that two people looking alike proves they are the same person, then you have to explain your doppelgangers.

If this guy were really a dead solider, DNA evidence would be the way to prove it. No messing around with pointing moles.

It's all very flimsy evidence to decide to spread a hateful conspiracy theory that if wrong, is just causing pain and suffering to the innocent families of those who died. Who would be that callous?

(https://i.imgur.com/oESrHHv.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 26, 2021, 08:44:45 PM
If you claim that two people looking alike proves they are the same person, then you have to explain your doppelgangers.
You've made this point twice now, but you haven't really made much sense. Are you suggesting that the four people named Tom Bishop in your photographs look anything alike? Because, well, they don't. They don't even have remotely comparable faces. That said, neither do the people in Tom's photo. Take like 5 seconds to compare their teeth. It's a depressingly bad take from both of you.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 27, 2021, 06:43:21 PM
You know you're missing two moles around the neck, right?

Also, is this you?  Because I can't seem to find the original source of the (supposidly) dead marine.

The moles around the neck seem to fade in and out of his body throughout the video, as it is dark against dark. This may be one of them:

(https://i.imgur.com/pTqFqPO.png)

Maybe hints of multiple moles here:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ya540N3.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 27, 2021, 06:54:56 PM
This surely means Trump will be reinstated any day now.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 27, 2021, 07:07:38 PM
You know you're missing two moles around the neck, right?

Also, is this you?  Because I can't seem to find the original source of the (supposidly) dead marine.

The moles around the neck seem to fade in and out of his body throughout the video, as it is dark against dark. This may be one of them:

(https://i.imgur.com/pTqFqPO.png)

Maybe hints of multiple moles here:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ya540N3.png)

Its called pixilization and I still only see one.  Go get better glasses/computer monitor.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 27, 2021, 07:10:55 PM
You know you're missing two moles around the neck, right?

Also, is this you?  Because I can't seem to find the original source of the (supposidly) dead marine.

The moles around the neck seem to fade in and out of his body throughout the video, as it is dark against dark. This may be one of them:

(https://i.imgur.com/pTqFqPO.png)

Maybe hints of multiple moles here:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ya540N3.png)

So this is where you are with the Falconer & Survivor contestants terabytes of treasonous evidence against Obama, Biden & HRC...Moles?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 27, 2021, 08:31:23 PM
You know you're missing two moles around the neck, right?

Also, is this you?  Because I can't seem to find the original source of the (supposidly) dead marine.

The moles around the neck seem to fade in and out of his body throughout the video, as it is dark against dark. This may be one of them:

So you are basing your conclusion that these are the same person, based on highly compressed, low quality footage showing moles in some but not all of the same places.

This leads you to believe that the reports of his death, the obituary, his grieving family... all is somehow faked and his entire team was murdered by Obama and Hillary and covered up. But he is all right and making videos about it now?

Because of some spots on a video.  Would you believe anyone who made a video claiming outlandish things from a dead person, as long as they have some moles that line up?  It seems like a very shallow standard of evidence to make such a large leap of faith from.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 27, 2021, 09:41:12 PM
It seems like a very shallow standard of evidence to make such a large leap of faith from.

You know who you are talking to, right?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 27, 2021, 09:56:11 PM
Nope. The fact that we can get one of those moles to match location is evidence. The mole fades in and out of his body, and lack of a visible mole is not a reliable piece of evidence to determine that it's not him. Two random people do not have moles at the same location, so the match of a single mole is evidence.

Find me an Elvis impersonator who has the same facial deformities as the real Elvis. The color and swirl of this guy's hair is also a close match. Not everyone has this hair, this crooked nose and this facial disfigurement between the eyebrows.

There is a sample of one person claiming to be this guy, and the assertion that we can look through thousands of people and get similarities is not a valid comparison. It is also not feasible to look through thousands of people and find ones with the same facial deformities and likeness.


(https://i.imgur.com/rL4sIn2.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/MzzUBFB.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/mhLXvVY.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/4LJkBxY.jpg)

Explain why this is "just a coincidence" please.

There is only one person claiming to be this person. This isn't a matter of searching through thousands of pictures and finding the one we like.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 27, 2021, 10:05:13 PM
Nope. The fact that we can get one of those moles to match location is evidence. The mole fades in and out of his body, and lack of a visible mole is not a reliable piece of evidence to determine that it's not him. Two random people do not have moles at the same location, so the match of a single mole is evidence.

Find me an Elvis impersonator who has the same facial deformities as the real Elvis. The color and swirl of this guy's hair is also a close match. Not everyone has this hair, this crooked nose and this facial disfigurement between the eyebrows.

There is a sample of one person claiming to be this guy, and the assertion that we can look through thousands of people and get similarities is not a valid comparison. It is also not feasible to look through thousands of people and find one with the same facial deformities.


(https://i.imgur.com/rL4sIn2.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/MzzUBFB.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/mhLXvVY.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/4LJkBxY.jpg)

Explain why this is "just a coincidence" please.

There is only one person claiming to be this person. This isn't a matter of searching through thousands of pictures and finding the one we like.

Turns out people can have similarities and still not be the same person; a wrinkle between the eyes is fairly ubiquitous.  As AATW constantly reminds you, not all evidence is created equal.  How about you look at all the differences and then apply the same standard as to how convincing it is?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: garygreen on January 27, 2021, 10:36:54 PM
here's how trump can still win
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 27, 2021, 10:58:08 PM
Nope. The fact that we can get one of those moles to match location is evidence. The mole fades in and out of his body, and lack of a visible mole is not a reliable piece of evidence to determine that it's not him. Two random people do not have moles at the same location, so the match of a single mole is evidence.

Find me an Elvis impersonator who has the same facial deformities as the real Elvis. The color and swirl of this guy's hair is also a close match. Not everyone has this hair, this crooked nose and this facial disfigurement between the eyebrows.

There is a sample of one person claiming to be this guy, and the assertion that we can look through thousands of people and get similarities is not a valid comparison. It is also not feasible to look through thousands of people and find ones with the same facial deformities and likeness.


(https://i.imgur.com/rL4sIn2.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/MzzUBFB.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/mhLXvVY.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/4LJkBxY.jpg)

Explain why this is "just a coincidence" please.

There is only one person claiming to be this person. This isn't a matter of searching through thousands of pictures and finding the one we like.

You are expecting us to believe this is the same person because of a few superficial features you think look the same?

As I said before, his ears are completely different.

The facial disfigurement between the eyebrows is completely different, they are curved in different directions!

One of their faces is much more gaunt than the other, skin tone is different, hairstyles are different, one has a mole over his right eyebrow that is missing on the other, one is covered in freckles and the other is not, eye color doesn't look the same, one has much wider nostrils than the other, eye shape is different, one has thicker bushier eyebrows, eyebrows are not the same color, spacing between the nose and upper lip is not the same, teeth gaps are not the same, neck wrinkles are not the same, missing moles on the neck.

If you want to cherry-pick a few similar features you aren't going to convince anyone.

As for why the guy who is claiming to be the other guy happens to look like the other guy? Self selection? I have no idea what this guys motive is, other than to fool gullible people.

If this guy is alive, why isn't he shown with his family? You would think they would want to see their dead husband/father. Why are they not claiming he's alive?

Honestly, the guy sounds like a nutjob. Talking in riddles and being all weird with mentioning memory wipes. I'm not sure how you think this indicates he's a dead seal member, it looks like someone with a mental issue to me.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 28, 2021, 12:11:58 AM
As I said before, his ears are completely different.

You can barely see his ears. I don't see any difference.

Quote
The facial disfigurement between the eyebrows is completely different, they are curved in different directions!

I don't see it.

(https://i.imgur.com/pBl3jCm.jpg)

From different angles it looks like the disfigurement continues to go straight up, not to the left:

(https://i.imgur.com/9ddsu5q.png) (https://i.imgur.com/51AvHrq.jpg)

Quote
One of their faces is much more gaunt than the other, skin tone is different, hairstyles are different

Okay. Thanks for trying.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 28, 2021, 12:18:27 AM
Everyone: I don’t see it Tom

Tom: This is evidence. I win.

Everyone: We see something different. This is also evidence.

Tom: I don’t see it. I win.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 28, 2021, 12:32:57 AM
Everyone: I don’t see it Tom

Tom: This is evidence. I win.

Everyone: We see something different. This is also evidence.

Tom: I don’t see it. I win.

Sounds like I won.

Now how about you coincidence theorists get back to justifying the ridiculous anomalies in Joe Biden's vote count.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/bellwether-counties-went-overwhelmingly-for-trump-in-2020_3579578.html?utm_source=share-btn-copylink

Quote
Over the past nearly 40 years, presidential elections have observed an intriguing phenomenon: 19 counties in the nation have always voted for the winner, be it Republican or Democrat.

They’ve been dubbed “bellwether counties” and until this year, no president since at least Ronald Reagan has missed even one.

In 2020, all but one of the bellwethers picked President Donald Trump by a margin of some 16 points on average. Only one, Clallam County in Washington, went for former Vice President Joe Biden and only by about a three-point margin.

Yet unofficial vote counts now show Biden in the lead and with enough electoral votes to claim the presidency. Trump is challenging the results in several states, alleging fraud, voter suppression, and illegal restrictions on Republican poll watchers. Two states have announced recounts.

Bellwethers aren’t a crystal ball—their streak was expected to end sooner or later. But what would be striking is for it to end so radically.

There is another bellwether list of 58 counties that has correctly picked each president since 2000; Trump won 51 of them by an average margin of nearly 15 points. The ones he lost went to Biden by a margin of about four points on average.

And then there’s Vigo County in Indiana—the quintessential bellwether that has correctly picked the winner in all but two elections since 1888. In both of the missteps, the residents wrongly picked the losing Democrat: Williams Jennings Bryan over President William Taft in 1908 and Adlai Stevenson over President Dwight Eisenhower in 1952.

This year, Vigo went for Trump by nearly 15 points, roughly the same as in 2016. An Emerson poll conducted shortly before Election Day was completely off, showing Trump and Biden neck and neck.

Bellwether Characteristics

The 19 bellwethers tend to be poorer, whiter, older, and less educated than the rest of the country, according to an August paper by researchers from the University of Denver and the University of New Hampshire.

There’s significant variability among them, though. Median household incomes range from $65,000 in Bremer County, Iowa, to $32,000 in Hidalgo County in New Mexico. Both Hidalgo and Valencia County, New Mexico, are close to 60 percent Hispanic, while Westmoreland County in Virginia is almost one-third black. Sawyer County, Wisconsin, and Clallam County, Washington, have “substantial Native American populations,” the authors said.

The counties “tend to be clustered in the Midwest and the Northeast, with only four of the counties not falling into one of those regions,” they said.

Westmoreland is the only one of the counties in the South, Clallam is the only one on the West Coast, and Hidalgo and Valencia are the only counties in the Mountain West.

“The unequal geographic distribution is a somewhat curious phenomenon of bellwether counties. Eleven of the 19 were located in just six Midwestern states, and Wisconsin alone is home to four,” they said.

The counties are also mostly small and rural.

“Just two have populations in excess of 100,000,” the authors said.

The bellwethers’ ability to predict the winner has been attributed to a large swath of voters willing to switch party preference from one election to the next.

Scoring All Counties
The researchers also mapped all U.S. counties (over 3,000) by their “bellwether score”—their record of voting for the overall winner in each of the previous 10 presidential elections—giving progressively larger weight to more recent elections.

“The bellwether scores map highlights the fact that many states have a good bellwether county or two, even if they did not make the list of the 19 counties which have always voted for the winning candidate,” they said.

“Many counties in states that have reliably voted for one party for many cycles are home to counties which have almost always voted for the winner of the election; for example, South Carolina has two strong bellwether counties despite being a reliably Republican state, and California has a number of strong bellwethers in its central valley despite being a reliably Democratic state.”

They also found that high-scoring counties exhibit a geographic trend.

“The upper Midwest, upstate New York, and northern New England are home to a disproportionate share of high-scoring counties,” they said.

“High scoring bellwether counties in these regions tend to border other high-scoring counties, unlike their counterparts in the South and West, which tend to see high scoring bellwethers somewhat isolated from each other. The Upper Mississippi River Valley and it [sic] surrounding area, in particular, appears to be an epicenter of these high-scoring bellwethers.”
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 28, 2021, 12:40:33 AM
Pandemic + Historically Fucktardish President = Anomolous Election Results

This is a claim.

A claim is evidence.

I win.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 28, 2021, 12:41:52 AM
And then there’s Vigo County in Indiana—the quintessential bellwether that has correctly picked the winner in all but two elections since 1888. In both of the missteps, the residents wrongly picked the losing Democrat: Williams Jennings Bryan over President William Taft in 1908 and Adlai Stevenson over President Dwight Eisenhower in 1952.

This year, Vigo went for Trump by nearly 15 points, roughly the same as in 2016. An Emerson poll conducted shortly before Election Day was completely off, showing Trump and Biden neck and neck.

So now it's happened three times since 1888 - Looks like we can add a third misstep to Vigo County. A perfect example why the bellwether argument is lame.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on January 28, 2021, 12:48:04 AM
I hadn't heard of bellwether counties before. It's interesting, sure, but it's also clearly just coincidence, not any kind of serious predictor of elections. Obviously these counties aren't some kind of magical nexus to the nation's political leanings. To be suspicious of the fact that some of them finally went against the grain is like being suspicious of the fact that the Red Sox won the World Series in 2004 when they hadn't done so since 1918. Things happen until they don't. Patterns exist until they're broken. Nothing lasts forever.

Tom, do you actually think that bellwether counties are some sort of nexus to the nation's political leanings? That we can actually look at how these counties vote and scientifically determine how the entire nation will vote as a result? If the answer is yes, then I think you ought to offer some sort of explanation, because I think most rational people would agree that doesn't make any sense. And if the answer is no, then you should just accept that bellwether counties are fairly interesting phenomena that don't actually mean anything in a scientific or statistical sense. Weird patterns and coincidences form by happenstance all the time, and they stop happening all the time too.

"But the bellwether counties" has got to be the flimsiest argument in favor of the election being fraudulent.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 28, 2021, 12:48:52 AM
Pandemic + Historically Fucktardish President = Anomolous Election Results

This is a claim.

A claim is evidence.

I win.

So according to your theory more republicans voted for Biden this cycle. But according the anomalies this isn't true. If more republicans were voting for Biden, he should be up everywhere.

In general Biden lost many counties, winning the lowest number of counties in Wisconson as compared to previous presidents. Why should this be if more republicans are voting for Biden?

(https://i.imgur.com/9trpfGx.png)

You are proposing ridiculous anomalies without explanation.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 28, 2021, 12:49:48 AM
Now how about you coincidence theorists get back to justifying the ridiculous anomalies in Joe Biden's vote count.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/bellwether-counties-went-overwhelmingly-for-trump-in-2020_3579578.html?utm_source=share-btn-copylink

Quote
Over the past nearly 40 years, presidential elections have observed an intriguing phenomenon: 19 counties in the nation have always voted for the winner, be it Republican or Democrat.

That particular bit of bad math has been destroyed repeatedly.

The argument is basically "Well this thing happened before and didn't happen now so this other thing is totally wrong."

The reality is populations and demographics change, and indicators are just indicators, they change with them.

There is nothing abnormal about that.  It's an 'intriguing phenomenon' not a mathematical law.

I could find a similar group of counties to prove Trump's election was invalid too, it wouldn't be any more meaningful.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 28, 2021, 12:54:18 AM
Quote
That particular bit of bad math has been destroyed repeatedly.

The argument is basically "Well this thing happened before and didn't happen now so this other thing is totally wrong."

How is you proposing an unprecedented anomalies "destroying" anything? Proposing unprecedented anomalies means that results were anomalous, affirming the premise.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 28, 2021, 12:54:54 AM
Pandemic + Historically Fucktardish President = Anomolous Election Results

This is a claim.

A claim is evidence.

I win.

So according to your theory more republicans voted for Biden this cycle. But according the anomalies this isn't true. If more republicans were voting for Biden, he should be up everywhere.

In general Biden lost many counties, winning the lowest number of counties in Wisconson as compared to previous presidents. Why should this be if more republicans are voting for Biden?

(https://i.imgur.com/9trpfGx.png)

You are proposing ridiculous anomalies without explanation.

I did explain it. I win.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 28, 2021, 01:11:04 AM
I don't see an explanation. I just see you guys trouble coming up with baseless excuses to justify something you want to be true.

https://spectator.org/what-we-must-believe-to-believe-biden-won/

(https://i.imgur.com/P5mcZ8n.png)

...

(https://i.imgur.com/zCUJLwB.png)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: honk on January 28, 2021, 01:30:44 AM
If you're just going to say "Nuh uh, I win," there's no point in this discussion continuing.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 28, 2021, 01:46:46 AM
I don't see an explanation. I just see you guys trouble coming up with baseless excuses to justify something you want to be true.

https://spectator.org/what-we-must-believe-to-believe-biden-won/

(https://i.imgur.com/P5mcZ8n.png)

...

(https://i.imgur.com/zCUJLwB.png)

Sentence by sentence:
1. 'Hammered' is a stretch, but otherwise...yep. I dont see where the problem is there.
2. Trump definitely underperformed with minorities. Got more votes than obama because....more people voted than in any election in US history. This was predicted to occur long before a democratic nominee was even selected.
3. Bellweather counties dont matter. Might as well be talking about a groundhog and his shadow.
4. It wasnt Venezuelan software. It was software from a company that has ties to a country that developed machine for Venezuelan elections.
5. Nothing was difficult to believe if you paid attention to anything leading up to Nov 3
6. He was, and he was.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 28, 2021, 03:26:11 AM
Quote
That particular bit of bad math has been destroyed repeatedly.

The argument is basically "Well this thing happened before and didn't happen now so this other thing is totally wrong."

How is you proposing an unprecedented anomalies "destroying" anything? Proposing unprecedented anomalies means that results were anomalous, affirming the premise.

Here you go, I ran the numbers and guess what, Trump stole the 2016 election!

Over the past nearly 30 years, presidential elections have observed an intriguing phenomenon: 73 counties in the nation have always voted for the winner, be it Republican or Democrat.  But in 2016, all 73 of these voted for Hillary Clinton.  Yet Trump won.  How is is possible for these counties to have ALL voted for the winner, every time since 2000... but in 2016 they went for Hillary which clearly indicates she was the winner, but somehow Trump was declared President?

Can you explain this, Tom?  Trump stole it... 73 counties proves it, right?  It's unprecedented!

VA-Radford ,CA-San Bernardino ,WA-Clark ,VA-Staunton ,CA-Riverside ,NJ-Somerset ,GA-Newton
,WA-Island ,NC-Wake ,NC-Wilson ,TX-Bexar ,AK-District 38 ,SC-Charleston ,AL-Jefferson
,GA-Sumter ,OH-Hamilton ,CA-San Luis Obispo ,IL-DeKalb ,IL-Will ,GA-Rockdale ,VA-Manassas
Park ,MS-Pike ,NY-Dutchess ,CA-San Joaquin ,VA-Hopewell ,VA-Loudoun ,KY-Fayette ,AK-District
39 ,GA-Baldwin ,CO-Alamosa ,IL-Lake ,ID-Latah ,IL-DuPage ,NC-Forsyth ,MN-Washington
,TX-Dallas ,LA-East Baton Rouge ,WA-Skagit ,CA-Fresno ,FL-Hillsborough ,CA-Merced ,MS-Copiah
,TX-Kleberg ,TX-Val Verde ,CO-Ouray ,OR-Clackamas ,VA-Manassas ,NC-Pitt ,TX-Harris
,NC-Buncombe ,MS-Oktibbeha ,CO-Jefferson ,PA-Centre ,CO-Arapahoe ,IL-Winnebago ,IL-Kane
,CO-Larimer ,PA-Monroe ,NV-Washoe ,MN-Dakota ,MS-Yazoo ,NM-Los Alamos ,VA-Henrico
,CA-Stanislaus ,NM-Sandoval ,CA-San Diego ,PA-Dauphin ,CA-Ventura ,GA-Douglas ,MN-Olmsted
,VA-Winchester ,VA-Prince William ,VA-Harrisonburg
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 28, 2021, 07:39:36 AM
Nope. I can point to the fact that Trump won Bellwethers in 2016. Can you show ANY historical statistical significance in Biden's favor?

(https://i.imgur.com/lCSmqEp.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 28, 2021, 11:18:18 AM
Nope. I can point to the fact that Trump won Bellwethers in 2016. Can you show ANY historical statistical significance in Biden's favor?

Has Trump ever been president?  No?
Then historical significance is irrelevant.  No time in history has 10% of a party hated their own president more than the democratic candidate.

The existence of The Lincolin project is proof enough.

Besides, states are won by total population count, not by county.  Like look at New York.  Most counties are red.  But because most of the population of the state is in the city, and that votes heavily Democrat... NY goes to democrats.  See how that works, or do we need to work on basic math?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 28, 2021, 01:13:48 PM
Nope. I can point to the fact that Trump won Bellwethers in 2016. Can you show ANY historical statistical significance in Biden's favor?

I can point to the fact that Hillary won 73 Bellwethers in 2016. Can you prove Trump didn't steal the 2016 election? You can't argue with my Bellwethers.

Bellwethers are worthless for proving fraud. We had a massive pandemic that Trump screwed up big time with 400,000 people dead. Bellwether counties aren't going to ignore that. They are just people who vote, they are not statistics that are forced to obey their previous voting habits.

Trump lost in 2020.  He lost by, like a lot, by over 7 million votes and a landslide in the electoral college. 

Months and months of searching hasn't found anything but a handful of fraudulent Trump voters.

You can post all the statistics you find on the internet you want but it all comes down to a simple fact that more people wanted Trump out of office than wanted him to stay. 

Trump supporters claimed he was going to win, they were wrong. They claimed it would be overturned over and over in court, they were wrong again and again. They claimed on the 6th they would fix it, they were wrong. They claimed Trump would still be 'the next administration' on the 20th, they were wrong.

And they are wrong now, claiming Trump is going to be reinstated, and wrong saying it was stolen.  If you want historical trends, Trump supporters being wrong is a good one.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Action80 on January 28, 2021, 02:19:16 PM
Nope. I can point to the fact that Trump won Bellwethers in 2016. Can you show ANY historical statistical significance in Biden's favor?

I can point to the fact that Hillary won 73 Bellwethers in 2016.
Please do.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 28, 2021, 04:13:06 PM
Sounds to me like you guys do not have positive statistical evidence in Joe Biden's favor and are offering baseless and nonsensical excuses for why you have zero supporting data.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 28, 2021, 04:28:52 PM
you have zero supporting data.
Well. We have Biden sitting in the White House, I guess.
You spent months saying that wouldn't happen. You might want to try a bit of introspection and consider that you don't understand things as well as you think you do. Of course you can find sources which back up your viewpoint, anyone can these days.  But the objective facts are Trump and his cohorts lost all the cases, just like we told you they would. The SCOTUS laughed him out of court, just like we told you they would. The Kraken was as mythical as expected, just like we told you it was. And Biden was elected, certified and inaugurated.

You can use statistics badly to prove almost anything. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing when it comes to statistics.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 28, 2021, 04:34:21 PM
Most popular president ever, who Republicans allegedly flipped to vote for in droves, wins lowest number of counties across the state of Iowa, as compared to previous incumbents.

(https://i.ibb.co/5rvPy5R/h-Glv-R2zd-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 28, 2021, 04:35:37 PM
Nope. I can point to the fact that Trump won Bellwethers in 2016. Can you show ANY historical statistical significance in Biden's favor?

I can point to the fact that Hillary won 73 Bellwethers in 2016.
Please do.

I already did, these counties voted for the Presidential winner since 2000, but strangely in 2016 they were ALL wrong.  How could this be... clearly Trump cheated.

VA-Radford ,CA-San Bernardino ,WA-Clark ,VA-Staunton ,CA-Riverside ,NJ-Somerset ,GA-Newton
,WA-Island ,NC-Wake ,NC-Wilson ,TX-Bexar ,AK-District 38 ,SC-Charleston ,AL-Jefferson
,GA-Sumter ,OH-Hamilton ,CA-San Luis Obispo ,IL-DeKalb ,IL-Will ,GA-Rockdale ,VA-Manassas
Park ,MS-Pike ,NY-Dutchess ,CA-San Joaquin ,VA-Hopewell ,VA-Loudoun ,KY-Fayette ,AK-District
39 ,GA-Baldwin ,CO-Alamosa ,IL-Lake ,ID-Latah ,IL-DuPage ,NC-Forsyth ,MN-Washington
,TX-Dallas ,LA-East Baton Rouge ,WA-Skagit ,CA-Fresno ,FL-Hillsborough ,CA-Merced ,MS-Copiah
,TX-Kleberg ,TX-Val Verde ,CO-Ouray ,OR-Clackamas ,VA-Manassas ,NC-Pitt ,TX-Harris
,NC-Buncombe ,MS-Oktibbeha ,CO-Jefferson ,PA-Centre ,CO-Arapahoe ,IL-Winnebago ,IL-Kane
,CO-Larimer ,PA-Monroe ,NV-Washoe ,MN-Dakota ,MS-Yazoo ,NM-Los Alamos ,VA-Henrico
,CA-Stanislaus ,NM-Sandoval ,CA-San Diego ,PA-Dauphin ,CA-Ventura ,GA-Douglas ,MN-Olmsted
,VA-Winchester ,VA-Prince William ,VA-Harrisonburg
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 28, 2021, 04:36:29 PM
Most popular president ever, who Republicans allegedly flipped to vote for in droves, wins lowest number of counties across the state of Iowa, as compared to previous incumbents.

(https://i.ibb.co/5rvPy5R/h-Glv-R2zd-1.jpg)

Again, irrelevant given that the whole state's population is what matters.

Also, have you analized the population shift in the counties in iowa?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 28, 2021, 04:37:56 PM
Most popular president ever, who Republicans allegedly flipped to vote for in droves, wins lowest number of counties across the state of Iowa, as compared to previous incumbents.

Maybe Trump shouldn't have botched the COVID response.

Maybe he shouldn't have been a toxic, obnoxious race-baiting fear-mongering self serving liar.

Or you could just blame it all on some vague conspiracy with no evidence.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 28, 2021, 04:40:20 PM
Sounds to me like you guys do not have positive statistical evidence in Joe Biden's favor and are offering baseless and nonsensical excuses for why you have zero supporting data.

Are you denying that these 73 Bellwether counties voted for the right president since 2000, then suddenly Trump won even though they ALL voted for Hillary?  Why is this not supporting data but your charts and graphs are?

Either they are both evidence that both elections were stolen, or both are NOT evidence of that.  Which is it?

VA-Radford ,CA-San Bernardino ,WA-Clark ,VA-Staunton ,CA-Riverside ,NJ-Somerset ,GA-Newton
,WA-Island ,NC-Wake ,NC-Wilson ,TX-Bexar ,AK-District 38 ,SC-Charleston ,AL-Jefferson
,GA-Sumter ,OH-Hamilton ,CA-San Luis Obispo ,IL-DeKalb ,IL-Will ,GA-Rockdale ,VA-Manassas
Park ,MS-Pike ,NY-Dutchess ,CA-San Joaquin ,VA-Hopewell ,VA-Loudoun ,KY-Fayette ,AK-District
39 ,GA-Baldwin ,CO-Alamosa ,IL-Lake ,ID-Latah ,IL-DuPage ,NC-Forsyth ,MN-Washington
,TX-Dallas ,LA-East Baton Rouge ,WA-Skagit ,CA-Fresno ,FL-Hillsborough ,CA-Merced ,MS-Copiah
,TX-Kleberg ,TX-Val Verde ,CO-Ouray ,OR-Clackamas ,VA-Manassas ,NC-Pitt ,TX-Harris
,NC-Buncombe ,MS-Oktibbeha ,CO-Jefferson ,PA-Centre ,CO-Arapahoe ,IL-Winnebago ,IL-Kane
,CO-Larimer ,PA-Monroe ,NV-Washoe ,MN-Dakota ,MS-Yazoo ,NM-Los Alamos ,VA-Henrico
,CA-Stanislaus ,NM-Sandoval ,CA-San Diego ,PA-Dauphin ,CA-Ventura ,GA-Douglas ,MN-Olmsted
,VA-Winchester ,VA-Prince William ,VA-Harrisonburg
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 28, 2021, 04:43:26 PM
Sounds to me like you guys do not have positive statistical evidence in Joe Biden's favor and are offering baseless and nonsensical excuses for why you have zero supporting data.

The statistic of winning more votes and EC votes is pretty positive for Biden. What the fuck are you even talking about?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Action80 on January 28, 2021, 05:26:23 PM
Nope. I can point to the fact that Trump won Bellwethers in 2016. Can you show ANY historical statistical significance in Biden's favor?

I can point to the fact that Hillary won 73 Bellwethers in 2016.
Please do.

I already did, these counties voted for the Presidential winner since 2000, but strangely in 2016 they were ALL wrong.  How could this be... clearly Trump cheated.

VA-Radford ,CA-San Bernardino ,WA-Clark ,VA-Staunton ,CA-Riverside ,NJ-Somerset ,GA-Newton
,WA-Island ,NC-Wake ,NC-Wilson ,TX-Bexar ,AK-District 38 ,SC-Charleston ,AL-Jefferson
,GA-Sumter ,OH-Hamilton ,CA-San Luis Obispo ,IL-DeKalb ,IL-Will ,GA-Rockdale ,VA-Manassas
Park ,MS-Pike ,NY-Dutchess ,CA-San Joaquin ,VA-Hopewell ,VA-Loudoun ,KY-Fayette ,AK-District
39 ,GA-Baldwin ,CO-Alamosa ,IL-Lake ,ID-Latah ,IL-DuPage ,NC-Forsyth ,MN-Washington
,TX-Dallas ,LA-East Baton Rouge ,WA-Skagit ,CA-Fresno ,FL-Hillsborough ,CA-Merced ,MS-Copiah
,TX-Kleberg ,TX-Val Verde ,CO-Ouray ,OR-Clackamas ,VA-Manassas ,NC-Pitt ,TX-Harris
,NC-Buncombe ,MS-Oktibbeha ,CO-Jefferson ,PA-Centre ,CO-Arapahoe ,IL-Winnebago ,IL-Kane
,CO-Larimer ,PA-Monroe ,NV-Washoe ,MN-Dakota ,MS-Yazoo ,NM-Los Alamos ,VA-Henrico
,CA-Stanislaus ,NM-Sandoval ,CA-San Diego ,PA-Dauphin ,CA-Ventura ,GA-Douglas ,MN-Olmsted
,VA-Winchester ,VA-Prince William ,VA-Harrisonburg
Posting a list of counties and stating they are bellweather counties based on what? Elections since 2000? C'mon man!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 28, 2021, 05:51:12 PM
Posting a list of counties and stating they are bellweather counties based on what? Elections since 2000? C'mon man!

What a shitty rebuttal.  "C'mon man" doesn't refute anything.

Bellwether counties are a classic example of post-hoc reasoning and as pointed out earlier, have no more validity than Punxsutawney Phil.

Meanwhile Biden has done a few nice things since taking office.  Hopefully his call to get rid of oil subsidies is heeded.  I am also glad kids won't be taken from their parents anymore.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Action80 on January 28, 2021, 06:03:22 PM
Posting a list of counties and stating they are bellweather counties based on what? Elections since 2000? C'mon man!

What a shitty rebuttal.  "C'mon man" doesn't refute anything.

Bellwether counties are a classic example of post-hoc reasoning and as pointed out earlier, have no more validity than Punxsutawney Phil.

Meanwhile Biden has done a few nice things since taking office.  Hopefully his call to get rid of oil subsidies is heeded.  I am also glad kids won't be taken from their parents anymore.
Yeah, I know you don't like the fact that bellweather counties and predictive analysis is exactly what insurance companies utilize to set rates and make money.

Makes your whole argument look lousy.

Government shouldn't subsidize anything, period.

How do you know kids are being taken from their parents?

Is Joe taking them?

Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

He loves little kids rubbin' on his legs.

C'mon man!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 28, 2021, 06:45:52 PM
Nope. I can point to the fact that Trump won Bellwethers in 2016. Can you show ANY historical statistical significance in Biden's favor?

I can point to the fact that Hillary won 73 Bellwethers in 2016.
Please do.

I already did, these counties voted for the Presidential winner since 2000, but strangely in 2016 they were ALL wrong.  How could this be... clearly Trump cheated.

VA-Radford ,CA-San Bernardino ,WA-Clark ,VA-Staunton ,CA-Riverside ,NJ-Somerset ,GA-Newton
,WA-Island ,NC-Wake ,NC-Wilson ,TX-Bexar ,AK-District 38 ,SC-Charleston ,AL-Jefferson
,GA-Sumter ,OH-Hamilton ,CA-San Luis Obispo ,IL-DeKalb ,IL-Will ,GA-Rockdale ,VA-Manassas
Park ,MS-Pike ,NY-Dutchess ,CA-San Joaquin ,VA-Hopewell ,VA-Loudoun ,KY-Fayette ,AK-District
39 ,GA-Baldwin ,CO-Alamosa ,IL-Lake ,ID-Latah ,IL-DuPage ,NC-Forsyth ,MN-Washington
,TX-Dallas ,LA-East Baton Rouge ,WA-Skagit ,CA-Fresno ,FL-Hillsborough ,CA-Merced ,MS-Copiah
,TX-Kleberg ,TX-Val Verde ,CO-Ouray ,OR-Clackamas ,VA-Manassas ,NC-Pitt ,TX-Harris
,NC-Buncombe ,MS-Oktibbeha ,CO-Jefferson ,PA-Centre ,CO-Arapahoe ,IL-Winnebago ,IL-Kane
,CO-Larimer ,PA-Monroe ,NV-Washoe ,MN-Dakota ,MS-Yazoo ,NM-Los Alamos ,VA-Henrico
,CA-Stanislaus ,NM-Sandoval ,CA-San Diego ,PA-Dauphin ,CA-Ventura ,GA-Douglas ,MN-Olmsted
,VA-Winchester ,VA-Prince William ,VA-Harrisonburg
Posting a list of counties and stating they are bellweather counties based on what? Elections since 2000? C'mon man!

Based on the fact they voted for the winning president every year since at least 2000.  I don't have access to data for years before that or I'd expand the list. It's the same criteria that Tom used.

Do you feel the same way about Tom's Bellweather 'evidence' as mine? Is his data just as bad? So 30 years of data is terrible but 40 years is totally legit?

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Action80 on January 28, 2021, 07:19:14 PM
Nope. I can point to the fact that Trump won Bellwethers in 2016. Can you show ANY historical statistical significance in Biden's favor?

I can point to the fact that Hillary won 73 Bellwethers in 2016.
Please do.

I already did, these counties voted for the Presidential winner since 2000, but strangely in 2016 they were ALL wrong.  How could this be... clearly Trump cheated.

VA-Radford ,CA-San Bernardino ,WA-Clark ,VA-Staunton ,CA-Riverside ,NJ-Somerset ,GA-Newton
,WA-Island ,NC-Wake ,NC-Wilson ,TX-Bexar ,AK-District 38 ,SC-Charleston ,AL-Jefferson
,GA-Sumter ,OH-Hamilton ,CA-San Luis Obispo ,IL-DeKalb ,IL-Will ,GA-Rockdale ,VA-Manassas
Park ,MS-Pike ,NY-Dutchess ,CA-San Joaquin ,VA-Hopewell ,VA-Loudoun ,KY-Fayette ,AK-District
39 ,GA-Baldwin ,CO-Alamosa ,IL-Lake ,ID-Latah ,IL-DuPage ,NC-Forsyth ,MN-Washington
,TX-Dallas ,LA-East Baton Rouge ,WA-Skagit ,CA-Fresno ,FL-Hillsborough ,CA-Merced ,MS-Copiah
,TX-Kleberg ,TX-Val Verde ,CO-Ouray ,OR-Clackamas ,VA-Manassas ,NC-Pitt ,TX-Harris
,NC-Buncombe ,MS-Oktibbeha ,CO-Jefferson ,PA-Centre ,CO-Arapahoe ,IL-Winnebago ,IL-Kane
,CO-Larimer ,PA-Monroe ,NV-Washoe ,MN-Dakota ,MS-Yazoo ,NM-Los Alamos ,VA-Henrico
,CA-Stanislaus ,NM-Sandoval ,CA-San Diego ,PA-Dauphin ,CA-Ventura ,GA-Douglas ,MN-Olmsted
,VA-Winchester ,VA-Prince William ,VA-Harrisonburg
Posting a list of counties and stating they are bellweather counties based on what? Elections since 2000? C'mon man!

Based on the fact they voted for the winning president every year since at least 2000.  I don't have access to data for years before that or I'd expand the list. It's the same criteria that Tom used.

Do you feel the same way about Tom's Bellweather 'evidence' as mine? Is his data just as bad? So 30 years of data is terrible but 40 years is totally legit?
Where do you see 40 years?

I see nearly 50 (and for a majority it seems to be over 100).

Cutting corners seems to be a favorite activity of yours.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 28, 2021, 07:31:10 PM
Trump won 2016 on the longer term Bellwethers. That is a statistical point in Trump's favor. His results were also consistent in the state county counts posted.

Still waiting for the compelling statistical arguments in favor of Biden. I just see arguments that ridiculous anomalies are "possible" without supporting evidence for those arguments, and without any positive statistical evidence to present supporting Biden's win.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 28, 2021, 07:42:39 PM
Trump won 2016 on the longer term Bellwethers. That is a statistical point in Trump's favor. His results were also consistent in the state county counts posted.

Still waiting for the compelling statistical arguments in favor of Biden. I just see arguments that ridiculous anomalies are "possible" without supporting evidence for those arguments, and without any positive statistical evidence to present supporting Biden's win.

The evidence is that Biden won the election.  Bellwether's are not a necessary phenomena in human behavior, so why should something related to them be seen as necessarily casting doubt on an election?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 28, 2021, 08:00:25 PM
Trump won 2016 on the longer term Bellwethers. That is a statistical point in Trump's favor. His results were also consistent in the state county counts posted.

Still waiting for the compelling statistical arguments in favor of Biden. I just see arguments that ridiculous anomalies are "possible" without supporting evidence for those arguments, and without any positive statistical evidence to present supporting Biden's win.

There were >7 million more points of compelling statistical evidence for Biden than for Trump.

All of the statistical anomalies you're alluding to have either been demonstrated to rely on false premises by mathematicians and political scientists, or, as in the bellweather examples, irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 28, 2021, 08:33:13 PM
Nope. I can point to the fact that Trump won Bellwethers in 2016. Can you show ANY historical statistical significance in Biden's favor?

I can point to the fact that Hillary won 73 Bellwethers in 2016.
Please do.

I already did, these counties voted for the Presidential winner since 2000, but strangely in 2016 they were ALL wrong.  How could this be... clearly Trump cheated.

VA-Radford ,CA-San Bernardino ,WA-Clark ,VA-Staunton ,CA-Riverside ,NJ-Somerset ,GA-Newton
,WA-Island ,NC-Wake ,NC-Wilson ,TX-Bexar ,AK-District 38 ,SC-Charleston ,AL-Jefferson
,GA-Sumter ,OH-Hamilton ,CA-San Luis Obispo ,IL-DeKalb ,IL-Will ,GA-Rockdale ,VA-Manassas
Park ,MS-Pike ,NY-Dutchess ,CA-San Joaquin ,VA-Hopewell ,VA-Loudoun ,KY-Fayette ,AK-District
39 ,GA-Baldwin ,CO-Alamosa ,IL-Lake ,ID-Latah ,IL-DuPage ,NC-Forsyth ,MN-Washington
,TX-Dallas ,LA-East Baton Rouge ,WA-Skagit ,CA-Fresno ,FL-Hillsborough ,CA-Merced ,MS-Copiah
,TX-Kleberg ,TX-Val Verde ,CO-Ouray ,OR-Clackamas ,VA-Manassas ,NC-Pitt ,TX-Harris
,NC-Buncombe ,MS-Oktibbeha ,CO-Jefferson ,PA-Centre ,CO-Arapahoe ,IL-Winnebago ,IL-Kane
,CO-Larimer ,PA-Monroe ,NV-Washoe ,MN-Dakota ,MS-Yazoo ,NM-Los Alamos ,VA-Henrico
,CA-Stanislaus ,NM-Sandoval ,CA-San Diego ,PA-Dauphin ,CA-Ventura ,GA-Douglas ,MN-Olmsted
,VA-Winchester ,VA-Prince William ,VA-Harrisonburg
Posting a list of counties and stating they are bellweather counties based on what? Elections since 2000? C'mon man!

Based on the fact they voted for the winning president every year since at least 2000.  I don't have access to data for years before that or I'd expand the list. It's the same criteria that Tom used.

Do you feel the same way about Tom's Bellweather 'evidence' as mine? Is his data just as bad? So 30 years of data is terrible but 40 years is totally legit?
Where do you see 40 years?

I see nearly 50 (and for a majority it seems to be over 100).

Cutting corners seems to be a favorite activity of yours.

Where did I see 40 years?  Read the thread you are commenting in.  Right here.

Over the past nearly 40 years, presidential elections have observed an intriguing phenomenon: 19 counties in the nation have always voted for the winner, be it Republican or Democrat.

Tell you what, you buy or find me the historical voting data for the past 100 years and I can run my analysis on it and give you data showing Trump is a big cheater using it. Would that make you happy?

I don't see you contributing anything but claiming 40 years is absolute proof and 30 years is totally not proving anything. It's easy to criticize someone elses work.

But I'll look for more data. If I find it and can match Toms data going back 50 or 100 years, will you commit to either accept both sets of data, or admitting both are easy to create?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on January 28, 2021, 08:33:38 PM
Most popular president ever

Trump? Wow, I guess there's a new record for that because Biden's already more popular than Trump ever was!

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/biden-job-approval-first-polls.html
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 29, 2021, 02:25:51 AM
The evidence is that Biden won the election.

That's what you are supposed to be showing supporting evidence of. So you have nothing. Got it.

There were >7 million more points of compelling statistical evidence for Biden than for Trump.

All of the statistical anomalies you're alluding to have either been demonstrated to rely on false premises by mathematicians and political scientists, or, as in the bellweather examples, irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

I don't see anything "demonstrated false". You guys have yet to show positive evidence that Joe Biden is as popular as claimed, or that he legitimately won the election. We have only seen attempted excuses for various anomalies without supporting evidence for those excuses.

Most popular president ever

Trump? Wow, I guess there's a new record for that because Biden's already more popular than Trump ever was!

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/biden-job-approval-first-polls.html

Your liberal sources also said that Hillary Clinton was leading and was going to win big. Non-credible.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 29, 2021, 02:41:41 AM
The evidence is that Biden won the election.

That's what you are supposed to be showing supporting evidence of. So you have nothing. Got it.

We have an inauguration. That is positive evidence that he won.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on January 29, 2021, 02:41:54 AM
Most popular president ever

Trump? Wow, I guess there's a new record for that because Biden's already more popular than Trump ever was!

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/biden-job-approval-first-polls.html

Your liberal sources also said that Hillary Clinton was leading and was going to win big. Non-credible.

Of course, I forgot liberal sources, unlike fringe conservative sources, are always biased and can't be trusted.

Here's a conservative source saying Biden's approval rating is 2 points higher than the same source ever gave Trump!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-poll-sharp-partisan-divide.amp

Good job Joe, I always knew the people loved ya!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 29, 2021, 02:42:37 AM
The evidence is that Biden won the election.

That's what you are supposed to be showing supporting evidence of. So you have nothing. Got it.

Here's all the supporting evidence you need that Biden won and is now your President:

(https://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/11/13/73ff088f-8ab1-41ae-8370-db880199f747/thumbnail/640x360/c6f7b46dff8cb997771276d5e13ee3de/cbsn-fusion-georgia-north-carolna-election-results-biden-trump-thumbnail-587679-640x360.jpg)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 29, 2021, 02:49:41 AM
The evidence is that Biden won the election.

That's what you are supposed to be showing supporting evidence of. So you have nothing. Got it.

There were >7 million more points of compelling statistical evidence for Biden than for Trump.

All of the statistical anomalies you're alluding to have either been demonstrated to rely on false premises by mathematicians and political scientists, or, as in the bellweather examples, irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

I don't see anything "demonstrated false". You guys have yet to show positive evidence that Joe Biden is as popular as claimed, or that he legitimately won the election. We have only seen attempted excuses for various anomalies without supporting evidence for those excuses.

Most popular president ever

Trump? Wow, I guess there's a new record for that because Biden's already more popular than Trump ever was!

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/biden-job-approval-first-polls.html

Your liberal sources also said that Hillary Clinton was leading and was going to win big. Non-credible.


Roundy's article quoted numerous polls, not just some radical-lefties opinions.

I'm claiming that Joe Biden is popular. I also claim that my friends and colleagues are happy he was elected. They voted for him.

No one is going to walk you through the ridiculousness of arguing Benford's law again; we did that in November. We're also not going to go through the 'one-in-a-bazillion' claims again. You've been shown why bell weather  counties dont matter - and you've been shown counter-bellweathers (which also dont matter!). You've been shown how Biden could have won despite winning a relatively small number of counties.

People here have tried to hold your hand and walk you through this complex election cycle (that went very predictably I might add). But if you keep choosing to willfully not understand what's happening, well, that's on you.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 29, 2021, 02:51:48 AM
Here's all the supporting evidence you need that Biden won and is now your President:

(https://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/11/13/73ff088f-8ab1-41ae-8370-db880199f747/thumbnail/640x360/c6f7b46dff8cb997771276d5e13ee3de/cbsn-fusion-georgia-north-carolna-election-results-biden-trump-thumbnail-587679-640x360.jpg)

Great. You have zero supporting statistical evidence that Joe Biden legitimately won the election, and can't appropriately contradict the items discussed. Thanks for conceding the loss of this discussion.

Quote
Roundy's article quoted numerous polls, not just some radical-lefties opinions.

Numerous polls said that Hillary Clinton was leading big. She lost. They also said that Biden was going to win at a much greater margin in the swing states than he did. Wrong again.

Quote
I'm claiming that Joe Biden is popular. I also claim that my friends and colleagues are happy he was elected. They voted for him.

No one is going to walk you through the ridiculousness of arguing Benford's law again; we did that in November. We're also not going to go through the 'one-in-a-bazillion' claims again. You've been shown why bell weather  counties dont matter - and you've been shown counter-bellweathers (which also dont matter!). You've been shown how Biden could have won despite winning a relatively small number of counties.

People here have tried to hold your hand and walk you through this complex election cycle (that went very predictably I might add). But if you keep choosing to willfully not understand what's happening, well, that's on you.

You guys were unable to show or produce a source that Joe Biden's votes followed Benford's law. You made some kind of claim that people were doing it wrong. This is not positive evidence in your favor.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 29, 2021, 02:54:42 AM
 
Quote
if you keep choosing to willfully not understand what's happening, well, that's on you.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on January 29, 2021, 02:55:15 AM
Virginia did NOT win for Biden.

I was up the night of the election on https://www.elections.virginia.gov and they had counted Abigail Spanberger as losing to the red candidate. Ditto for most of the districts, they were overwhelmingly red. Up until 11pm when I fell asleep. Yet the news was reporting as though Biden had already won, when they were still saying projected results and that they hadn't counted all % yet.  This when some districts had 80% or 90% reporting, and a complete flip is implausible.

The next morning, I woke up and it had flipped blue!

What Virginia really looks like on a district map.

(https://media.nbcwashington.com/2019/09/110817-virginia-govenors-race-results.jpg)

Rigged state...

This is why states should not account population. If a majority of the map looks like this, that should be the end of the story.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 29, 2021, 03:05:47 AM
Here's all the supporting evidence you need that Biden won and is now your President:

(https://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/11/13/73ff088f-8ab1-41ae-8370-db880199f747/thumbnail/640x360/c6f7b46dff8cb997771276d5e13ee3de/cbsn-fusion-georgia-north-carolna-election-results-biden-trump-thumbnail-587679-640x360.jpg)

Great. You have zero supporting statistical evidence that Joe Biden legitimately won the election, and can't appropriately contradict the items discussed. Thanks for conceding the loss of this discussion.

All the statistical evidence I need that Biden legitimately won the election is that Biden received 306 electoral votes. That's all the statistical evidence required. And the courts all agree. Now 2020's statistical evidence is part of all Presidential election statistical evidence that will be added to the 2024 Presidential election stats and so on. Stats are fun like that.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 29, 2021, 05:26:52 AM
Virginia did NOT win for Biden.

I was up the night of the election on https://www.elections.virginia.gov and they had counted Abigail Spanberger as losing to the red candidate. Ditto for most of the districts, they were overwhelmingly red. Up until 11pm when I fell asleep. Yet the news was reporting as though Biden had already won, when they were still saying projected results and that they hadn't counted all % yet.  This when some districts had 80% or 90% reporting, and a complete flip is implausible.

The next morning, I woke up and it had flipped blue!

What Virginia really looks like on a district map.

(https://media.nbcwashington.com/2019/09/110817-virginia-govenors-race-results.jpg)

Rigged state...

This is why states should not account population. If a majority of the map looks like this, that should be the end of the story.

NY is similar.  What that map doesn't show is how the losers did. If each county was 49/51% would that make more sense to you?

Also, again, population is a thing.  A county of 20,000 people doesn't hold as much weight as a county of a few million.  Yet that map doesn't show the weight.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 29, 2021, 07:08:29 AM
This is why states should not account population. If a majority of the map looks like this, that should be the end of the story.

What would be your alternative proposal?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 29, 2021, 09:40:19 AM
Virginia did NOT win for Biden.

I was up the night of the election on https://www.elections.virginia.gov and they had counted Abigail Spanberger as losing to the red candidate. Ditto for most of the districts, they were overwhelmingly red. Up until 11pm when I fell asleep. Yet the news was reporting as though Biden had already won, when they were still saying projected results and that they hadn't counted all % yet.  This when some districts had 80% or 90% reporting, and a complete flip is implausible.

The next morning, I woke up and it had flipped blue!
Sigh.

This really isn't difficult to understand. Look. This is from last September:

Quote
CNN polls released last month found that a record number of voters plan to cast ballots in the mail, and that this surge is driven by supporters of former Vice President Joe Biden. Fueling this partisan divide is President Donald Trump's months-long public relations campaign against mail-in voting, which he has falsely said leads to widespread fraud and "rigged" elections.
It takes longer to count mail-in ballots, and in many states, ballots are still admissible if they are postmarked by Election Day but arrive later. In simple terms, this means the partial results that get reported on Election Night will probably look worse for Biden than the final, complete count

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/01/politics/2020-election-count-red-mirage-blue-shift/index.html

This was all known long before election day. Why are so many people being surprised and expressing incredulity about things which were known? ???
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 29, 2021, 09:46:01 AM
This is why states should not account population. If a majority of the map looks like this, that should be the end of the story.
Have you heard of population density?
What you're suggesting is that counties with a low population should "count" more than those with a high population.
Taking an extreme example. Imagine a state with 50 counties.
49 have a population of 1 each.
The other county has a population of a million.
Let's say the 49 people in the 49 counties all vote for Trump.
And all million people in the last county vote for Biden.

So in terms of counties you have 49-1, a nice red map with a little splash of blue.
But in terms of votes it's a million to Biden and 49 to Trump (or you could imagine it the other way around)
Are you suggesting that State should be red because of the 49 people?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on January 29, 2021, 12:48:26 PM
Great. You have zero supporting statistical evidence that Joe Biden legitimately won the election, and can't appropriately contradict the items discussed. Thanks for conceding the loss of this discussion.


This is the same thing you say in flat earth arguments.


You and others like you are pushing the narrative that Vladimir Putin has sold the American public on social media. Perhaps his next assault on the nation's capital will be more successful.

Congratulations comrade, there will be a special place of respect for you in the new Russian Federation.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 29, 2021, 01:08:35 PM
Your liberal sources also said that Hillary Clinton was leading and was going to win big. Non-credible.

She did get more than three million votes than Trump, they were right that more people wanted her than Trump.  She was more popular, as predicted.  Trump just squeezed out a victory in the electoral college.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 29, 2021, 01:15:38 PM
Here's all the supporting evidence you need that Biden won and is now your President:

(https://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/11/13/73ff088f-8ab1-41ae-8370-db880199f747/thumbnail/640x360/c6f7b46dff8cb997771276d5e13ee3de/cbsn-fusion-georgia-north-carolna-election-results-biden-trump-thumbnail-587679-640x360.jpg)

Great. You have zero supporting statistical evidence that Joe Biden legitimately won the election, and can't appropriately contradict the items discussed. Thanks for conceding the loss of this discussion.

What's your definition of 'statistical evidence'? 

How about the statistic that presidents who screw up badly lose election?

Your Bellwether statistics are not proof, I showed that by making my own for the 2016 Trump win showing the exact same trend of Bellwether states going to Hillary and Trump winning instead.

Using cherry-picked statistics after the fact is not proof. The image above, that is proof that he won. Those are the votes. I know Trump can't handle the idea of losing, but he did. Big.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on January 29, 2021, 01:24:33 PM
You can't apply past statistical evidence to anomaly like the Trump election or Trump presidency. It is completely unprecedented and unique.

Never before in the history of our nation has a president been sold as a butt plug.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-butt-plug_n_7796138

How could a president who was made into a butt-plug ever lose an election? It is obviously a large-scale conspiracy of some sort.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on January 29, 2021, 01:29:45 PM
You can't apply past statistical evidence to anomaly like the Trump election or Trump presidency. It is completely unprecedented and unique.
Obligatory XKCD plug regarding precedents:

https://xkcd.com/2383/
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 29, 2021, 05:48:22 PM

(https://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/pictofact/6/0/4/660604.jpg?v=2)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 29, 2021, 07:13:01 PM
https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1R/bills/HB2720P.pdf

The AZ GOP is trying to pass an election reform bill that will allow the legislature to overturn the certification of electors with a simple majority. RIP AZ’s democracy.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 29, 2021, 09:10:51 PM
https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1R/bills/HB2720P.pdf

The AZ GOP is trying to pass an election reform bill that will allow the legislature to overturn the certification of electors with a simple majority. RIP AZ’s democracy.

The terrifying thing is if the Democrats didn't have a majority in the House, the GOP might very well have simply declared Trump the winner and it would absolutely have been RIP for democracy for the entire country.

It's scary how close we came to turning into a dictatorship.  I wonder how long the US is going to last at this rate before the fascists finally get their way.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on January 29, 2021, 09:39:46 PM
https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1R/bills/HB2720P.pdf

The AZ GOP is trying to pass an election reform bill that will allow the legislature to overturn the certification of electors with a simple majority. RIP AZ’s democracy.

The terrifying thing is if the Democrats didn't have a majority in the House, the GOP might very well have simply declared Trump the winner and it would absolutely have been RIP for democracy for the entire country.

It's scary how close we came to turning into a dictatorship.  I wonder how long the US is going to last at this rate before the fascists finally get their way.

You need to turn off CNN and go outside.  ::)
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 29, 2021, 09:59:39 PM
https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1R/bills/HB2720P.pdf

The AZ GOP is trying to pass an election reform bill that will allow the legislature to overturn the certification of electors with a simple majority. RIP AZ’s democracy.

The terrifying thing is if the Democrats didn't have a majority in the House, the GOP might very well have simply declared Trump the winner and it would absolutely have been RIP for democracy for the entire country.

It's scary how close we came to turning into a dictatorship.  I wonder how long the US is going to last at this rate before the fascists finally get their way.

You need to turn off CNN and go outside.  ::)

You really think if the GOP had the votes, they wouldn't have voted Trump in as president?  Look at how many voted against Biden on the 6th.  Imagine if they had a majority. 

You guys are a clear and present threat to democracy in this country.  They would have, and you would have cheered. Sad.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 29, 2021, 10:03:26 PM
https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1R/bills/HB2720P.pdf

The AZ GOP is trying to pass an election reform bill that will allow the legislature to overturn the certification of electors with a simple majority. RIP AZ’s democracy.

The terrifying thing is if the Democrats didn't have a majority in the House, the GOP might very well have simply declared Trump the winner and it would absolutely have been RIP for democracy for the entire country.

It's scary how close we came to turning into a dictatorship.  I wonder how long the US is going to last at this rate before the fascists finally get their way.

You need to turn off CNN and go outside.  ::)

Are you suggesting Trump would have not accepted that?  That he would have demanded that Biden be the winner and that the senate not install him as president?

You do know how most dictatorships start, yeah?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 29, 2021, 10:35:30 PM
https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/55leg/1R/bills/HB2720P.pdf

The AZ GOP is trying to pass an election reform bill that will allow the legislature to overturn the certification of electors with a simple majority. RIP AZ’s democracy.

The terrifying thing is if the Democrats didn't have a majority in the House, the GOP might very well have simply declared Trump the winner and it would absolutely have been RIP for democracy for the entire country.

It's scary how close we came to turning into a dictatorship.  I wonder how long the US is going to last at this rate before the fascists finally get their way.

You need to turn off CNN and go outside.  ::)

For all the whinging you do about the left-wing, here is an example of the GOP literally giving themselves the option to replace the will of the people with their own and you act likes it’s no big deal.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 29, 2021, 11:29:26 PM
For all the whinging you do about the left-wing, here is an example of the GOP literally giving themselves the option to replace the will of the people with their own and you act likes it’s no big deal.

A fraudulent election is a pretty big deal.

Still waiting on a legitimate explanation to this other than 'anomalies are possible'.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
(https://i.ibb.co/5rvPy5R/h-Glv-R2zd-1.jpg)

Quote from: Tom Bishop
(https://i.imgur.com/9trpfGx.png)

Lord Dave speculates that the populations changed:

Quote from: Lord Dave
Again, irrelevant given that the whole state's population is what matters.

Also, have you analized the population shift in the counties in iowa?

Is this there supporting evidence for this speculation, or is this just something that was made up?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Roundy on January 29, 2021, 11:39:46 PM
For all the whinging you do about the left-wing, here is an example of the GOP literally giving themselves the option to replace the will of the people with their own and you act likes it’s no big deal.

A fraudulent election is a pretty big deal.

Still waiting on a legitimate explanation to this other than 'anomalies are possible'.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
(https://i.ibb.co/5rvPy5R/h-Glv-R2zd-1.jpg)

Quote from: Tom Bishop
(https://i.imgur.com/9trpfGx.png)

Lord Dave speculates that the populations changed:

Quote from: Lord Dave
Again, irrelevant given that the whole state's population is what matters.

Also, have you analized the population shift in the counties in iowa?

Is this there supporting evidence for this speculation, or is this just something that was made up?

Nah, that's okay, Tom. "Anomalies are possible" is all we really need, so we really don't need to come up with a better explanation than that.

I guess I understand that you're not getting tired of this. If I had them on the hook like that I wouldn't want to let go either.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 29, 2021, 11:41:14 PM
I didn't realize asking a question about your methedology implied that I was making an argument.
Indeed it would be speculation and as such, is not a claim, evidence, or even an argument.

Just asking a question.  So either answer it or don't. 
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 29, 2021, 11:46:54 PM
Quote
Nah, that's okay, Tom. "Anomalies are possible" is all we really need

Great, I am glad that you confirm that you have no good explanation to the ridiculous anomalies present in Joe Biden's vote counts. It makes things a lot easier when your opponent is at a loss for words and can't defend themselves or their chosen politician.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 30, 2021, 12:16:59 AM
Quote
Nah, that's okay, Tom. "Anomalies are possible" is all we really need

Great, I am glad that you confirm that you have no good explanation to the ridiculous anomalies present in Joe Biden's vote counts. It makes things a lot easier when your opponent is at a loss for words and can't defend themselves or their chosen politician.

I gave you an example of "anomalies" several times in this thread, and you have yet to explain how yours are any more or less relevant.  I showed you 'Bellwethers' for the 2016 election that proved Trump lost. So how are your statistics proof and mine are not? Same thing, showing counties that always voted for the winner, until they 'mysteriously' picked the loser. So very suspicious!

I can come up with anomalies all day long for or against any President and it doesn't prove anything.

That is the explanation. That your anomalies are meaningless nonsense, made up after the fact to try and foster doubt and anger in Trump supporters. They are not proof of anything but how gullible some people can be.

A fraudulent election is a pretty big deal, and it would certainly be if we had one.  But it was a secure election, the most secure election in American history.  Said by the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency director Chris Krebs, who was appointed by Trump. Biden won by 7 million votes. Nobody can prove he changed 7 of them, let alone 7 million.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 30, 2021, 12:22:32 AM
Quote
Nah, that's okay, Tom. "Anomalies are possible" is all we really need

Great, I am glad that you confirm that you have no good explanation to the ridiculous anomalies present in Joe Biden's vote counts. It makes things a lot easier when your opponent is at a loss for words and can't defend themselves or their chosen politician.

I gave you an example of "anomalies" several times in this thread, and you have yet to explain how yours are any more or less relevant.  I showed you 'Bellwethers' for the 2016 election that proved Trump lost. So how are your statistics proof and mine are not? Same thing, showing counties that always voted for the winner, until they 'mysteriously' picked the loser. So very suspicious!

And as discussed, Trump won on the longer term bellwethers than what you posted. That's a statistical point for Trump. His counts are also in line with the two county charts I posted above. You have yet to post any statistical arguments in favor of Joe Biden's win.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 30, 2021, 12:32:06 AM
Quote
Nah, that's okay, Tom. "Anomalies are possible" is all we really need

Great, I am glad that you confirm that you have no good explanation to the ridiculous anomalies present in Joe Biden's vote counts. It makes things a lot easier when your opponent is at a loss for words and can't defend themselves or their chosen politician.

I gave you an example of "anomalies" several times in this thread, and you have yet to explain how yours are any more or less relevant.  I showed you 'Bellwethers' for the 2016 election that proved Trump lost. So how are your statistics proof and mine are not? Same thing, showing counties that always voted for the winner, until they 'mysteriously' picked the loser. So very suspicious!

And as discussed, Trump won on the longer term bellwethers than what you posted. That's a statistical point for Trump. His counts are also in line with the two county charts I posted above. You have yet to post any statistical arguments in favor of Joe Biden's win.

That's your entire argument then, that the statistics you found on the internet go back longer than mine?  Using 30 years is nothing but 40... that's proof!

So mine are made up and easily dismissed but yours are PROOF of Biden stealing the election simply because I used less years?  That's a huge stretch and you know it.  Again this is conformation bias.. my numbers are wrong but yours are right.

As for me not showing any data supporting Biden, that's only because I can't find the data for 2020 with paying for it.  I offered before, and will offer again. If someone wants to buy me access to all the historical and current data, I'll happily produce charts and graphs showing matching anomalies for whoever you want.

Statistical 'points' made up after the fact are meaningless. Just because a coin was heads last time, doesn't mean it's any more likely to be tails this time just because of statistics. 

The simple fact is Trump did things than made a lot of people angry at him and they voted him out of office. This is simply what happens when you screw up badly. You get fired.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on January 30, 2021, 12:34:37 AM
A fraudulent election is a pretty big deal.

No shit, and if the bill limited powers to overturning fraudulent results, it would be better than the current bill, which is just carte blanche for a simple majority to overturn an election for any or no reason.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 30, 2021, 03:34:36 AM
That's your entire argument then, that the statistics you found on the internet go back longer than mine?  Using 30 years is nothing but 40... that's proof!

So mine are made up and easily dismissed but yours are PROOF of Biden stealing the election simply because I used less years?  That's a huge stretch and you know it.  Again this is conformation bias.. my numbers are wrong but yours are right.

The point is that there are statistical arguments for Trump's win, while you have provided nothing for Biden.

Quote
As for me not showing any data supporting Biden

Good to know that you have no data supporting Biden.

Quote
that's only because I can't find the data for 2020 with paying for it.  I offered before, and will offer again. If someone wants to buy me access to all the historical and current data, I'll happily produce charts and graphs showing matching anomalies for whoever you want.

lol @ "The counties and areas who voted for Biden are a total paywalled MYSTERY"

Quote
The simple fact is Trump did things than made a lot of people angry at him and they voted him out of office. This is simply what happens when you screw up badly. You get fired.

If more people voted against Trump this election then it would make more sense that Biden won the presidency with a lot of counties. Not a few. Kindly explain and show supporting evidence for the low number of county discrepancies pointed out.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 30, 2021, 03:44:36 AM
You were shown you can win the popular  vote with <150 counties. You were shown the number you would need to win the EC. It was lower than the number Biden won.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Снупс on January 30, 2021, 03:56:49 AM
Still waiting on a legitimate explanation to this other than 'anomalies are possible'.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
(https://i.ibb.co/5rvPy5R/h-Glv-R2zd-1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9trpfGx.png)

Wait, is the argument really "states voted really different than before this time"? Would evidence of this happening all the time throughout elections be satisfactory for you?

Also, those don't honestly look all that anomalous so much as indicative of a general rightward shift over the last few elections. You'll notice that, in both cases, starting after Bush (though the second graph leaves him out for some reason), the Republicans start tending to win more counties. Obama v McCain was 53 Obama, 46 McCain. Then 38 Obama, 61 Romney. Then 93 Trump, 6 Hillary. So, yeah, 90 Trump, 9 Biden isn't that wild of a shift. Iowa just didn't move much this election.

Similar for Wisconsin. 59 Obama, 13 McCain. Then 35 Obama, 37 McCain. Then 59 Trump, 13 Hillary, then 58 Trump, 14 Biden. And Trump just barely eked out a victory against Hillary there, so Biden winning a larger city is more than enough to make up for that ~30,000 vote difference. Bonus points: I live here, so I've borne witness to Wisconsin's rightward shift over my lifetime.

I simply don't see how this is any different than SexWarrior's "no president with a mole on the upper-right half of his temple has ever won before" post. Every single trend is going to be broken at some point.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 30, 2021, 06:43:17 AM
That's your entire argument then, that the statistics you found on the internet go back longer than mine?  Using 30 years is nothing but 40... that's proof!

So mine are made up and easily dismissed but yours are PROOF of Biden stealing the election simply because I used less years?  That's a huge stretch and you know it.  Again this is conformation bias.. my numbers are wrong but yours are right.

The point is that there are statistical arguments for Trump's win, while you have provided nothing for Biden.

Define a "statistical argument"? What exactly do you mean by that? Are you disputing the exact number of votes a candidate received? Are you advocating for Presidential elections to be determined based upon "statistical arguments" rather than votes?
What other things can you personally statistically predict? Got any stock tips based upon your statistical arguments? What's the statistical argument for GME closing at $325 a share today? If you actually had a statistical argument, whatever that may be, wouldn't you be able to accurately predict the outcome of everything?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on January 30, 2021, 08:15:00 AM
A fraudulent election is a pretty big deal.

No shit, and if the bill limited powers to overturning fraudulent results, it would be better than the current bill, which is just carte blanche for a simple majority to overturn an election for any or no reason.

Maybe the Dems in the senate should mirror it.  Pass the same bill federally.  Dems could remain in power forever!
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 30, 2021, 12:33:28 PM
That's your entire argument then, that the statistics you found on the internet go back longer than mine?  Using 30 years is nothing but 40... that's proof!

So mine are made up and easily dismissed but yours are PROOF of Biden stealing the election simply because I used less years?  That's a huge stretch and you know it.  Again this is conformation bias.. my numbers are wrong but yours are right.

The point is that there are statistical arguments for Trump's win, while you have provided nothing for Biden.

The point is statistical evidence isn't evidence of anything. You have proved nothing at all, and I showed that by finding the exact came kind of evidence you did.

Biden won because he got more votes than Trump.  We know this because we counted them.  These are simple facts, proven far beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Quote
As for me not showing any data supporting Biden

Good to know that you have no data supporting Biden.

I have plenty of data showing Biden won.  80 million data points in fact.  Actual data in counted votes, not made up statistics.

Quote
that's only because I can't find the data for 2020 with paying for it.  I offered before, and will offer again. If someone wants to buy me access to all the historical and current data, I'll happily produce charts and graphs showing matching anomalies for whoever you want.

lol @ "The counties and areas who voted for Biden are a total paywalled MYSTERY"

Please provide me with a link to a free downloadable dataset showing the votes for every county in the US from 2020 all the way back to 1960.  If you think this is easy, show me where it is.

You can laugh all you want, after you find the data for me.  Prove me wrong here, show me where I can download a csv of this information. Or better yet, upload it here so everyone can look at it. You say statistics will prove Trump won, go find it and show us.

Once you actually put some work into trying to back up your own theories and ideas you might understand what the rest of us do, it's not always easy to find and combine all the data required. It's a lot harder than copy-pasting gifs you find on the internet.

Quote
The simple fact is Trump did things than made a lot of people angry at him and they voted him out of office. This is simply what happens when you screw up badly. You get fired.

If more people voted against Trump this election then it would make more sense that Biden won the presidency with a lot of counties. Not a few. Kindly explain and show supporting evidence for the low number of county discrepancies pointed out.

It would make more sense that Biden won the presidency with a lot of votes. Not a few. 

There are no discrepancies. Cities overwhelmingly voted for Biden, rural farmland overwhelmingly voted for Trump. So of course Trump won more counties. But that's not even a real argument.

People vote, Tom. Not counties. Not houses, not families, not districts or townships or states or regions even the country. People vote, that's who we count.

And 80 million people voted for Biden.  We counted them.  If you think this is a lie, show us the fake votes.  Find ten million people who had their votes switched.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 30, 2021, 09:20:29 PM
The point is that there are statistical arguments for Trump's win, while you have provided nothing for Biden.
The point is you don't really understand statistics.
This explains a lot of the "statistical anomalies" you're getting excited about

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/31/fact-check-5-election-statistics-do-not-discredit-joe-bidens-victory/4086497001/

Ultimately the statistic that shows Biden win is he won the Electoral College and is currently living in the White House.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 31, 2021, 02:00:54 AM
You were shown you can win the popular  vote with <150 counties. You were shown the number you would need to win the EC. It was lower than the number Biden won.

You made an argument that it was 'possible' to win with only a few counties. This isn't positive evidence that Biden won. You are arguing that ridiculous anomalies are 'possible'. It was not explained how it occured in that argument, let alone supporting evidence for such.

It's nice that ridiculous anomalies are possible and all, but when you have only ridiculous anomalies to justify and no strong positive correlation it is not good evidence that Joe Biden was legitimately elected.

The point is that there are statistical arguments for Trump's win, while you have provided nothing for Biden.
The point is you don't really understand statistics.
This explains a lot of the "statistical anomalies" you're getting excited about

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/31/fact-check-5-election-statistics-do-not-discredit-joe-bidens-victory/4086497001/

Nope. Attempting to justify the numerous negative anomalies against Joe Biden isn't positive evidence that he won. It's evidence that you are very desperate and have no good evidence.

Quote from: JSS
Biden won because he got more votes than Trump.

Yes, you already told us that you had no supporting evidence for your hero Joe Biden.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 31, 2021, 02:08:15 AM
"Ridiculous anomalies" to you

"Normal election data" to the rest of us.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on January 31, 2021, 02:09:48 AM
"Ridiculous anomalies" to you

"Normal election data" to the rest of us.

It was admitted that these are anomalies. How are anomalies normal? That's not the definition of normal.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 31, 2021, 02:27:12 AM
"Ridiculous anomalies" to you

"Normal election data" to the rest of us.

It was admitted that these are anomalies. How are anomalies normal? That's not the definition of normal.

Nothing about the 2020 election cycle was normal.  We were in the middle of a pandemic for starters, and nothing about Trump is in any way normal!  His hair is a massive anomaly. So no, nothing about it was normal.

You however can't just make the jump from not normal to completely faked and fraudulent.

Not without evidence, which does not exist. Saying it's not normal isn't evidence.

The vote counts and returns which showed Biden winning by 7 million votes? That's evidence that he won. We count votes. Not abnormalities.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on January 31, 2021, 02:36:35 AM
Quote from: JSS
Biden won because he got more votes than Trump.

Yes, you already told us that you had no supporting evidence for your hero Joe Biden.

You keep forgetting the 81 million votes worth of evidence.  That's quite a lot of evidence that you keep ignoring.  It supports his win by showing that... he got more votes.

If you want statistics...

Statistically, unpopular people loose election.

Statistically, people who get more votes win elections.

Statistically, people who get more electoral votes win elections.

Statistically, more presidents have names that start with J than D.

So there is your supporting evidence.

Hero?  Yeah, he is my hero. He defeated Trump, which is pretty damn heroic.  Saved the country from another 4 years of that clown.  So yeah... hero... I like the sound of that.

Are you going to get me that data you seem to think is so easy to get? I'm still waiting for a link to download the csv or database of county results for the past 50 years or more.

Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: stack on January 31, 2021, 02:36:39 AM
You were shown you can win the popular  vote with <150 counties. You were shown the number you would need to win the EC. It was lower than the number Biden won.

You made an argument that it was 'possible' to win with only a few counties. This isn't positive evidence that Biden won. You are arguing that ridiculous anomalies are 'possible'. It was not explained how it occured in that argument, let alone supporting evidence for such.

It's nice that ridiculous anomalies are possible and all, but when you have only ridiculous anomalies to justify and no strong positive correlation it is not good evidence that Joe Biden was legitimately elected.

You're joking, right? Positive evidence that Biden won is that he got 306 electoral votes based upon total votes: Biden - 81.2 million, Trump - 74.2 million. You with this whole new "positive evidence" thing is just silly. How is you "statistical argument" more "positive evidence" than the actual votes?

Do you want elections to be based upon "Statistical Arguments" instead of voting?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 31, 2021, 08:43:02 AM
"Ridiculous anomalies" to you

"Normal election data" to the rest of us.

It was admitted that these are anomalies. How are anomalies normal? That's not the definition of normal.
sigh.

They are neither “normal” nor are they irrefutable evidence of fraud.

Any election produces lots of data. In that amount of data you’re going to find some “anomalies”. But they’re not really anomalies in the way you’re using the word. They are, at most, interesting statistical quirks. It’s not hard to find them if you look at enough data - especially if you have an agenda and you’re trying to “prove” a point.

If I flip a coin 10 times and get heads every time then you’d have cause to think that I was using a biased coin. If I flip a coin 10,000 times and then look at all the data then if you ended up with 9,000 heads and 1,000 tails then, again, that would be highly suspicious. But if in that sequence of 10,000 flips you saw a run of 10 heads in a row then that wouldn’t be a smoking gun of anything. In a sequence that long it’s not unreasonable. I actually saw a magician (Derren Brown, check him out, he does some interesting stuff) flip 10 heads in a row in one of his TV specials in one continuous take. At the end of the program they showed how he did it - he literally stood there all day until he did it! He was making the point that “statistical anomalies” are only viewed as such from a certain point of view. If you see the bigger picture then you see they’re not really “anomalies” at all.

You are very much leading the witness here. How do you explain these “ridiculous anomalies”. Well, we don’t accept they are ridiculous anomalies. If anything, the fact that small counties have voted for the eventual winner IS the anomaly. At some point you’d expect that run - like a long run of heads in a coin flip - to end.

You are the one who needs to provide proof of fraud. Trump and his cohorts failed to do that in 60 court cases. Recounts and signature audits reaffirmed the original results. Every state certified the results. The electoral college voted for Biden. He’s in the White House.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on January 31, 2021, 01:55:30 PM
This year the data were as normal as any other year if you ignore all the factors swirling around. What election data is 'normal'?

2020 saw a record number of votes and mail-in voting during a global pandemic, and was perhaps the most nasty race I've seen? But the voting data itself isnt all that weird.

I'd claim that Trump's 2016 win created a stranger data set. Winning the EC while losing the popular vote is a bigger 'anomaly' than any of the frivolous arguments TB et al. have put forward here. And he did it while stealing huge swaths of typically Dem votes by convincing Cuban ex-pats that Hillary wanted to establish communism, aided by external actors.

The 2020 election was the furthest from normal we've ever seen.  But is the data that came out of it any more irregular than a typical year?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on January 31, 2021, 03:23:08 PM
This year the data were as normal as any other year if you ignore all the factors swirling around. What election data is 'normal'?
Right. My point is in any large data set you can find data which if you have an agenda you can call an anomaly.

So in 2016 Trump got a bigger electoral college majority than anyone in history who lost the popular vote. Every other winning President either won the popular vote or had a narrow electoral college win despite losing the popular vote

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_in_which_the_winner_lost_the_popular_vote

1888 was the only other time in history someone won a big majority in the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

So explain that. Trump can’t possibly have won in 2016. He lost the popular vote and yet won the election by a landslide. Never happened in history. In fact since 1888 there has only been one US election before Trump where the winner lost the popular vote and that was Bush vs Gore which was on a knife edge.

Ergo, there’s no way Trump could have won. Do you expect me to believe he could have got 306 electoral college votes without even winning the popular vote? It’s never happened...
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on February 01, 2021, 08:12:33 PM
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/01/962246187/spurred-by-the-capitol-riot-thousands-of-republicans-drop-their-party
Positive Evidence Republicans have had enough of their own party's shit.

I hope they make their own party.  A better party for better conservatives.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on February 01, 2021, 08:31:47 PM
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/01/962246187/spurred-by-the-capitol-riot-thousands-of-republicans-drop-their-party
Positive Evidence Republicans have had enough of their own party's shit.

I hope they make their own party.  A better party for better conservatives.

With blackjack and hookers?
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on February 01, 2021, 08:55:31 PM
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/01/962246187/spurred-by-the-capitol-riot-thousands-of-republicans-drop-their-party
Positive Evidence Republicans have had enough of their own party's shit.

I hope they make their own party.  A better party for better conservatives.

With blackjack and hookers?
No, the Trump Party is in Florida.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 02, 2021, 07:14:29 PM
This year the data were as normal as any other year if you ignore all the factors swirling around. What election data is 'normal'?
Right. My point is in any large data set you can find data which if you have an agenda you can call an anomaly.

So in 2016 Trump got a bigger electoral college majority than anyone in history who lost the popular vote. Every other winning President either won the popular vote or had a narrow electoral college win despite losing the popular vote

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_in_which_the_winner_lost_the_popular_vote

1888 was the only other time in history someone won a big majority in the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

So explain that. Trump can’t possibly have won in 2016. He lost the popular vote and yet won the election by a landslide. Never happened in history. In fact since 1888 there has only been one US election before Trump where the winner lost the popular vote and that was Bush vs Gore which was on a knife edge.

Ergo, there’s no way Trump could have won. Do you expect me to believe he could have got 306 electoral college votes without even winning the popular vote? It’s never happened...

This is a fallacy. Plenty of people did think that there was a lot of illegal voting in the 2016 election, and that Clinton was receiving illegal votes.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-is-right-millions-of-illegals-probably-did-vote-in-2016/ - Trump Is Right — Millions Of Illegals Probably Did Vote In 2016

Quote
But there is evidence to back Trump's claims. A 2014 study in the online Electoral Studies Journal shows that in the 2008 and 2010 elections, illegal immigrant votes were in fact quite high.

"We find that some noncitizens participate in U.S. elections, and that this participation has been large enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes, and congressional elections," wrote Jesse T. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha, both of Old Dominion University, and David C. Earnest of George Mason University.


Pointing at an anomaly in another election does nothing to support Joe Biden's anomalies, however, and just makes more assumptions.

You're still trying to justify the possibility of anomalies rather than simply showing strong correlation that Joe Biden was legitimately elected. Again, you have presented zero positive evidence, only excuses.

This year the data were as normal as any other year if you ignore all the factors swirling around. What election data is 'normal'?

2020 saw a record number of votes and mail-in voting during a global pandemic, and was perhaps the most nasty race I've seen? But the voting data itself isnt all that weird.

I'd claim that Trump's 2016 win created a stranger data set. Winning the EC while losing the popular vote is a bigger 'anomaly' than any of the frivolous arguments TB et al. have put forward here. And he did it while stealing huge swaths of typically Dem votes by convincing Cuban ex-pats that Hillary wanted to establish communism, aided by external actors.

The 2020 election was the furthest from normal we've ever seen.  But is the data that came out of it any more irregular than a typical year?

I asked for strong positive correlation showing that Joe Biden was legitimately elected, not more excuses that ridiculous anomalies are possible.

And in order to point at anomalies in the 2016 election you would first need to prove that the election was untainted. You have not. Fallacy.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on February 02, 2021, 07:56:06 PM
Why don't we hear what Trumps own re-election team is saying.  A report released in December by Trump chief pollster Tony Fabrizio.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/02/01/trump-campaign-autopsy-paints-damning-picture-of-defeat-464636

"The report zeroes in on an array of demographics where Trump suffered decisive reversals in 2020, including among white seniors, the same group that helped to propel him to the White House. The autopsy says that Trump saw the “greatest erosion with white voters, particularly white men,” and that he “lost ground with almost every age group.” In the five states that flipped to Biden, Trump’s biggest drop-off was among voters aged 18-29 and 65 and older."

"Trump’s response to the pandemic was also critical. The autopsy says that coronavirus registered as the top issue among voters, and that Biden won those voters by a nearly 3-to-1 margin. A majority registered disapproval of Trump’s handling of the virus."

"The report also indirectly raises questions about the reelection campaign’s decision to pause advertising on TV over the summer and save resources until the fall. According to the findings, nearly 9-in-10 voters had made up their minds about whom to support by the final month of the race."

Perhaps Tom should be arguing with Trump's own people. They seem to think he lost because, well, he was unpopular, made mistakes and screwed up with the pandemic response.

Or perhaps Tony is just unaware of all the meaningless cherry picked 'statistical evidence' that was made up after the fact.  I'm sure he would be very interested in hearing Tom's theories. Make sure to include some secret messages from Q using the gematrix.org site or use some dead pigeons if that's no longer secure enough.  ::)

Maybe I should send him my 'statistical evidence' of 73 bellwether counties that broke for Hillary in 2016 that prove Trump cheated too.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Action80 on February 02, 2021, 07:56:48 PM
This year the data were as normal as any other year if you ignore all the factors swirling around. What election data is 'normal'?
Right. My point is in any large data set you can find data which if you have an agenda you can call an anomaly.

So in 2016 Trump got a bigger electoral college majority than anyone in history who lost the popular vote. Every other winning President either won the popular vote or had a narrow electoral college win despite losing the popular vote

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_in_which_the_winner_lost_the_popular_vote

1888 was the only other time in history someone won a big majority in the electoral college without winning the popular vote.

So explain that. Trump can’t possibly have won in 2016. He lost the popular vote and yet won the election by a landslide. Never happened in history. In fact since 1888 there has only been one US election before Trump where the winner lost the popular vote and that was Bush vs Gore which was on a knife edge.

Ergo, there’s no way Trump could have won. Do you expect me to believe he could have got 306 electoral college votes without even winning the popular vote? It’s never happened...

This is a fallacy. Plenty of people did think that there was a lot of illegal voting in the 2016 election, and that Clinton was receiving illegal votes.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-is-right-millions-of-illegals-probably-did-vote-in-2016/ - Trump Is Right — Millions Of Illegals Probably Did Vote In 2016

Quote
But there is evidence to back Trump's claims. A 2014 study in the online Electoral Studies Journal shows that in the 2008 and 2010 elections, illegal immigrant votes were in fact quite high.

"We find that some noncitizens participate in U.S. elections, and that this participation has been large enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes, and congressional elections," wrote Jesse T. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha, both of Old Dominion University, and David C. Earnest of George Mason University.


Pointing at an anomaly in another election does nothing to support Joe Biden's anomalies, however, and just makes more assumptions.

You're still trying to justify the possibility of anomalies rather than simply showing strong correlation that Joe Biden was legitimately elected. Again, you have presented zero positive evidence, only excuses.

This year the data were as normal as any other year if you ignore all the factors swirling around. What election data is 'normal'?

2020 saw a record number of votes and mail-in voting during a global pandemic, and was perhaps the most nasty race I've seen? But the voting data itself isnt all that weird.

I'd claim that Trump's 2016 win created a stranger data set. Winning the EC while losing the popular vote is a bigger 'anomaly' than any of the frivolous arguments TB et al. have put forward here. And he did it while stealing huge swaths of typically Dem votes by convincing Cuban ex-pats that Hillary wanted to establish communism, aided by external actors.

The 2020 election was the furthest from normal we've ever seen.  But is the data that came out of it any more irregular than a typical year?

I asked for strong positive correlation showing that Joe Biden was legitimately elected, not more excuses that ridiculous anomalies are possible. That is a pretty weak line of reasoning.

And in order to point at anomalies in the 2016 election you would first need to prove that the election was untainted. You have not. Fallacy.
Everyone knows that shitbag HRC didn't win the popular vote.

That is another lie foisted upon the public by MSM.

They have ceased all pretense of sanity and sound analysis.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on February 02, 2021, 07:58:25 PM
Everyone knows that shitbag Trump didn't win the popular vote.

That is another lie foisted upon the public by the GOP.

They have ceased all pretense of sanity and sound analysis.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: JSS on February 02, 2021, 09:46:55 PM
Everyone knows that shitbag HRC didn't win the popular vote.

That is another lie foisted upon the public by MSM.

They have ceased all pretense of sanity and sound analysis.

So salty.

Even though Trump won in 2016 you're still mad that Hillary got more votes.

You should deal with your anger issues.

The analysis is that she got more votes, and we know this because we counted them. That's how counting works.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Toddler Thork on February 02, 2021, 10:11:29 PM
Even though Trump won in 2016 you're still mad that Hillary got more votes.
Libtards always go on about the popular vote in 2016.

Facts.

Hillary won the popular vote by 2.8 million votes.
Hillary won California by 4.2 million votes.

Should California get to decide who is President every time? No? Well that's why you have an electoral college. Take out California and Trump won the popular vote over the other 49 states by more than one million votes.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Iceman on February 02, 2021, 10:14:11 PM
Even though Trump won in 2016 you're still mad that Hillary got more votes.
Libtards always go on about the popular vote in 2016.

Facts.

Hillary won the popular vote by 2.8 million votes.
Hillary won California by 4.2 million votes.

Should California get to decide who is President every time? No? Well that's why you have an electoral college. Take out California and Trump won the popular vote over the other 49 states by more than one million votes.

Expert analysis:

"If you take out a huge proportion of the population, the results of the popular vote would have been way different"

Truly astounding.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Dr Van Nostrand on February 02, 2021, 10:18:23 PM
Everyone knows that shitbag HRC didn't win the popular vote.

That is another lie foisted upon the public by MSM.

They have ceased all pretense of sanity and sound analysis.


Lies of the MSM? 

You're quoting Vladimir Putin propaganda.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Lord Dave on February 02, 2021, 10:44:24 PM
Even though Trump won in 2016 you're still mad that Hillary got more votes.
Libtards always go on about the popular vote in 2016.

Facts.

Hillary won the popular vote by 2.8 million votes.
Hillary won California by 4.2 million votes.

Should California get to decide who is President every time? No? Well that's why you have an electoral college. Take out California and Trump won the popular vote over the other 49 states by more than one million votes.

Expert analysis:

"If you take out a huge proportion of the population, the results of the popular vote would have been way different"

Truly astounding.

This.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Rama Set on February 02, 2021, 11:23:42 PM
Newsmax again showing their liberal bias:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1356719881564086272
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Tom Bishop on February 03, 2021, 06:30:39 AM
Newsmax again showing their liberal bias:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1356719881564086272

Stormed off the set like a petulant child while interviewing a guest. Looks like an attempted career suicide to me.
Title: Re: Joe Biden is winning by a landslide
Post by: Pete Svarrior on February 03, 2021, 08:12:46 AM
Stormed off the set like a petulant child while interviewing a guest. Looks like