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Zetonists ( spelling?)Zeteticists.
Personal attacks again. FE debate 101.Please back up your claims - point out at least one instance in which I attacked you as a person, rather than criticised your decisions, actions, or logic. If you can't do that, please take your claim back.
Your conclusion that there is no conspiracy regarding the shape of the earth is simply disregarding rational conclusions based on the data you're presenting.Please back up your claims. Name your premises, and demonstrate logical inference between these premises and conclusions.
Especially when you consider that a large portion of the FE community DOES believe there's a conspiracy to hide the shape of the earth. You alone reference the article above, whereas virtually every other flat-earth community member who responded to my initial questions offered debate supporting the idea of such a conspiracy that you deny exists. Consider too the OTHER flat earth communities on the web that speak openly about the academic conspiracy that predates NASA.I'm afraid it's entirely your prerogative if you choose to trust people you shouldn't trust. You haven't received all that many responses from regulars - most aren't as patient as I am.
Plus the article itself is misleading, saying that there is no conspiracy to hide the shape of the earth, only the nature of the space program. It doesn't take very much effort to link the two, as I had before.You keep claiming that there's a link. You also keep doing absolutely nothing to substantiate it. Until you do, it won't be taken very seriously.
However, you can't bear to admit that there might be a gaping hole in your theory or precious article, and thus continue to run rings around me barking at my presentation and demeanor rather than my rebuttals to your argument. Thus, my assumptions are dismissed by you (and ONLY you) as being the result of a feeble mind and inability to read.I'm happy to admit gaping holes when they're pointed out. Again, you've put no effort whatsoever into substantiating your claims. Your demeanour is the only substantial part of your posts thus far.
You sir, are arguing against me, the rest of the round earthers, a good portion of your OWN people, and the rational and logical conclusions which can be drawn from your precious link.Once again - as soon as you're able to back your claims up, I'll be happy to entertain them. Stating them over and over and claiming that they're just "logical conclusions" is insufficient. The logical process needs to be demonstrated. Until then, I have better things to do than try and construct your arguments for you.
All I'm doing is reading said link, and interpreting what it says.
Friend, you haven't got a prayer of even being remotely able to hurt my feelings, don't flatter yourself. In my real life I deal with people who do their best to get under my skin with some of the most vile personal insults you can possibly dream of (and some you couldn't. They're very creative sometimes.) You saying I can't read or don't understand a link doesn't even tweak the needle on my feelings-o-meter."N-no, really, I'm calm. Allow me to explain just how calm I am. You see, I'm very calm. S-seriously."
I don't like the link you supplied.Boo-hoo.
I know you're going to pick that apart-At least you're prepared!
So then. As time goes on, and the saviors of the intellectual world (flat earthers) start to emerge with whatever 'data' they're championing, NASA would have to do one of three things:The answer you're looking for is 2 with a little pinch of 3 added for taste.
1. Come out and say "Hold the phone, it turns out the world IS flat!"
2. Stay quiet
3. Lie.
They're not staying quiet, so let's kick that right out the door, since they supply photographs and other data which supports a round earth. (Legitimate, falsified, it doesn't matter, they're handing it out.)No, let's not kick that right out the door. Kicking it right out the door would be very silly. I already presented my case for it in the post you're responding to - NASA's funding is slowly, but steadily, being taken away. The whole operation is becoming quieter and quieter over time. They want out, but they can't quit cold turkey or people will start asking questions. This will be a slow process.
Essentially, if NASA is hiding a faked space program, they're hiding the shape of the earth IF it is indeed not round. It's a string of logic. By now, NASA doesn't THINK anything about the shape of the earth. They know what shape it is.Your "string of logic" does not follow at all. There is no reason to conclude that they know what the shape is. Your logic therefore relies on a false assumption, and, as I'm sure you know, falsity implies all statements.
And if THEY don't, then you saying you do is completely preposterous.Oh my. Perhaps you shouldn't have used the word "logic". You can at best say that you don't feel that we'd know if NASA doesn't know. I strongly doubt you can present any logical inference to back up your claim, but feel free to prove me wrong.
Lets say though for a moment that EVERYTHING about NASA is a sham. That it isn't science at all, but a group of actors or whatever. Wouldn't THEIR silence be conspiracy?Yes. The Wiki article I've linked you to says this much. You could have just read it, you know.
A: NASA knows the shape of the earth. In which case either:Again, as per the Wiki article which you claim to have read (but obviously haven't), B1 is the case. There was no need for elaborate mental gymnastics to establish that - we state it explicitly.
1. They're lying about it. or:
2. It's round.
B. NASA is a sham and made up of phony scientists, and has no idea what shape the world is. In this case:
1. Someone's lying to the world.
If either A1 or B1 is the case, then you have a conspiracy, which in my book would quickly grow out of hand and beyond control, bringing us back to my original statements and questions.And why would it grow out of hand and beyond control? Again, you present your feelings and not, as you claim, logic. Lying in show-business is hardly uncommon, and usually fairly easy. There are already multiple sectors of the entertainment industry which aren't exactly transparent about what they're doing. What is now known as WWE didn't publicly acknowledge its falsities for some 40 years of existence.
I'm not going to further the pissing contest. You think I'm an idiot, and I think you're a moron. Agree to disagree, now lets move on.I'm actually giving you the benefit of the doubt - that's why we're still talking, despite your extreme unwillingness to participate. But anyway:
I haven't concluded that there's a conspiracy in the least. However, the very nature of your community suggests that YOU (Perhaps not you personally, but the flat earth community in general) is convinced there is a conspiracy.I already answered your question. You ignored it because, again, you were too busy screaming about your hurt feelings.
How exactly do you explain the conventional science of a round earth when the 'truth' is something only you and a couple of other people happen to know if there isn't a conspiracy to pass along false data or hide the truth? Without a conspiracy on some level, this entire thing comes unglued. If there's nobody keeping a secret, there's no secret. If there's no secret, there's no alternate truth.
Your voluminous retort to my post places you much more comfortably within the confines of a 'rant' than I was to begin with.If it helps you sleep at night, sure, feel free to believe that. However, back here in the real world, there is a clear distinction between a long and thorough response, and a rant: a long, passionate tirade about how difficult it is to "unravel" our theory caused by nothing more than a single troll playing a joke on you is definitely a rant.
I've combed your sources, checked your links, read your FAQ, your wiki....all of it, yet here I still am, debating away. Why?I dunno, but you must have done a poor job at reading up if you've managed to convince yourself that there's a RE conspiracy is part of FET (and thus that it has a scope, which may in turn "seem implausible").
You tell me to read back. Now I'm going to ask you to do the same thing. You never said YOU were a troll, but you plainly said Sandhokan was.Yes. Well done.
My question still stands- If he's a troll and not to be taken seriously, why is he allowed to run amok, further tattering the credibility of this entire community?Because this community is based around the principle of largely unrestricted free speech. Contrary to your claims, we do not "run roughshod over" people who disagree with us, so long as they follow the rules. They're welcome to play devil's advocate, or claim that we're wrong about things, or rant about "unravelling" and "voluminous retorts". They can discuss the Earth being round, flat, "dual", hollow; they can start a discussion on whether or not religious discrimination has its merits, talk about the finer points of equality/inequality in the United States, or speculate about whether or not cancer can be cured with lots and lots of garlic. Provided that they do so in the right forum and follow the other rules, their views will not be suppressed.
Perhaps his presence here is an indicator that yes, there IS a joke being played...and I fell for it. A lot of us did.Yeah, yeah, someone on Reddit explained to you what Poe's Law is and now you feel very smart. Well done. We definitely haven't heard this one before, especially not so many times that it's now the first question of our FAQ.
Fascinating how 'your' trolls are shrugged off and kept around for shits and giggles apparently. Either that, or they're kept around as patsies for when someone gets close to shoveling through the drek that some of you consider science.I'm sorry, do you have any evidence to back up your claims? In what way have dissenters been "run roughshod over"? Are you suggesting that they have been banned? We can easily verify that. Are you suggesting that their posts were removed or otherwise suppressed? If so, why is no one complaining?
Dissenting opinion, however, religiously gets handed the often unfair moniker of 'troll' and gets run roughshod over.
Your stone-throwing is amazing.Son, you seem to have found yourself in a glass house. Moreover, you're projecting.
You talk about reflection, yet have no idea what your backpedaling, personal attacks, and self-admitted trolling does for your very own community.Backpedaling? Self-admitted trolling? You've got to be making this up. Yeah, I tend to be quite blunt with people who only come here to complain and who display absolutely no will to read our sources or engage in an honest debate - if you consider criticising your decisions to constitute a personal attack, then so be it. But, pray tell, could you provide any quotes of:
Anyway, there seems to be a common thread that NASA and governments are faking that the world is round.Again: no. Please try to at least read our sources before jumping to conclusions.
The OP's confusion appears to be that he believes there is a conspiracy that specifically knows the Earth is flat but hides it from the population at large. That is not a claim serious FE'ers would make, in my humble opinion.
http://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy
Privatised space flight may yet prove to blow this idea out of the water, but so far we've seen nothing but mysterious failures, Ponzi schemes, or simple rebrands of NASA under the pretense of space flight being "privatised". Meanwhile, NASA's funding is on a constant decline.
They already know they fucked up, and that they can't keep it going on forever. They're shutting it down slowly, but steadily.
As a round-earther here, I'm not debating a flat-earth idea, I'm debating a collective of varied ideas, each seems to rely on another one to say 'that isn't valid' whenever I get close to unraveling it.There's nothing to "unravel". There are plenty of good books on the subject (many of which can be found in our Library), not to mention the wiki. It's not our fault that you fail to differentiate obvious trolls from serious posters. If anything, it reflects poorly on you.
even if the speed of light is variable (which i highly doubt)If you "highly doubt" the the most trivially observable facts in science, then we probably shouldn't trust you when it comes to related matters.
But you could easily look back and see a spherical earth, how could you continue believing a flat earth?I already addressed this:
Any FE model based around the electromagnetic acceleration theory would still be viable
If space tourism does become wide spread then will that convince you that space travel is real and falsify flat Earth?I know the question wasn't directed at me, but for what it's worth: It would convince me that space travel is real and almost convince me that the Earth isn't flat. Any FE model based around the electromagnetic acceleration theory would still be viable, but if we were able to start taking measurements from space, that could be easily confirmed or denied.
It's an entertaining game, but an awful RPG. Even most of the professional reviews seem to acknowledge the bulk of our criticisms, like the terrible new dialogue system, general lack of choices, and dumbed-down RPG elements. They're apparently just a lot more forgiving of those flaws.It's almost as if gaming media had a corruption/culture problem :^)
Your very own Sandokhan is responsible for this tidbit of information.There's your problem. Nobody takes sandokhan seriously, but you chose to.
This is not the most persuasive evidence I have seen that Earth is round, not that it isn't persuasive. The point is: it's not about evidence. Flat earthers will religiously stick to their beliefs no matter what evidence they see that they are wrong because their bias is so strong it could survive a nuclear blast.Alternatively, we're not fans of "evidence" which heavily relies on assuming the intended conclusion. It usually goes like this: