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Offline beardo

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #480 on: November 27, 2015, 06:16:53 AM »
ok
The Mastery.

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Offline Crudblud

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #481 on: November 27, 2015, 12:21:11 PM »
Hey, anyone want to see the ending to F4?
I don't think I've ever actually said "oh fuck you" to the ending of a game before. Congratulations, Bethesda, that was literally the worst.

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #482 on: November 30, 2015, 12:16:14 AM »
One thing that's disappointed me a lot more than it really should is the lack of any well-known actors (that is to say, actors known for more than just voice acting).  In previous Fallout/TES games, the high-profile actors could always be counted on to give very entertaining performances, and to Bethesda's credit, they usually did a pretty good job of casting them.  But in F4, it seems like the entire cast is made up of generic bread-and-butter voice actors.*  Lame.  Still, I'd say the game is a slight step forward overall in terms of voice acting.  There's a fairly decent variety, and the actors themselves aren't too bad (with a few notable exceptions, like the male lead).  And here's something that honestly impressed me - the Boston accents are actually pretty good.  That might not sound like a great achievement, but it stands out when virtually every movie set in Boston nowadays is full of actors who apparently think that they should base their accent on how the mayor from The Simpsons sounds.

*This isn't entirely true, upon further investigation.  There seem to be one or two actresses known for their roles on TV, and Ron Perlman, Robert Picardo, and Lynda Carter have tiny roles.  Meh.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 11:22:21 PM by Saddam Hussein »

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #483 on: November 30, 2015, 01:03:33 AM »
You mean to tell me Bethesda didn't blow a disproportionate amount of their budget on Liam Neeson?

Fallout 4 0/10

Saddam Hussein

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #484 on: December 01, 2015, 03:03:23 AM »
I have beaten F4, and now I'm left with a feeling of vague dissatisfaction.  Not unlike F3, so many of this game's storytelling problems can be traced back to Bethesda's bizarre decision to try and make the main quest some kind of personal character drama first and a story fitting the RPG elements second.  I don't want to make any grand declarations about what video games inherently can or can't do, but if they really want to tell a story that's supposed to be this emotional, dramatic, and personal, Fallout probably isn't the right franchise to put it in, and a TES-style freeform RPG definitely isn't the right game to put it in.  They're simply not compatible.  In fact, if Bethesda is going to continue to simplify their games even further in the future, then I'd honestly prefer them to drop the pretense of making an RPG altogether and just focus on making the best action/adventure game they can.  Anything is better than an RPG as half-assed as this one.

Also, relevant:

« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 04:18:06 AM by Saddam Hussein »

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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #485 on: December 01, 2015, 04:38:58 AM »
An experimental exploration game set in the universe of The Road would be great.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #486 on: December 04, 2015, 04:53:36 AM »
More assorted thoughts on the game.  I really like the power armor, which looks and feels, well, powerful.  It's not just a few pieces of tough armor you slip on or off like any other, it's a big-ass machine you have to clamber into and control like a walking tank.  That's how something like power armor ought to work.  However, while previously in the series, power armor has usually been a late-game feature, here it's handed to you much too quickly.  As in, within the first hour of playing.  And you don't even need training to use it now.  Also, I'm not a fan of how they're fueled by expendable fusion cores that you need to replace.  For one thing, it's inconsistent with the lore, and for another, while I'm sure they included it as an attempt to "balance" how powerful the armor is, it doesn't take long at all for you to amass a large collection of fusion cores, quickly rendering any attempt by Bethesda to limit how overpowered the player will be useless.

On the notion of factions.  I appreciate that you actually get to choose a side this time around, and that there's a lot more moral grayness at play here than there was in F3.  But as the end of the game approaches, it doesn't seem like interaction between factions is any more nuanced than "kill them all."  There's no opportunity to form alliances or convince opposing factions to at least bow out of the conflict, like you could do in NV.  Every faction wants all the others gone, with the one exception of the Minutemen, but they just ignore/are ignored by the others, rather than interacting with them in any different way.  I sided with the BoS, and their decision to destroy the Railroad especially was baffling.  They just mumble something about "potential leaks" and that's it, better slaughter them all.  Bah.

Speaking of the BoS, they're all right.  They're certainly a tremendous improvement over the Boy Scouts of the Round Table in F3.  I have a few issues with their portrayal, though - you're able to join them a bit too quickly and easily, and I wish there was more of a focus on their philosophy itself, rather than simply their end goal of destroying the Institute and wiping out all the synths.  Not that I think it's out of character for them to do that, but as far as I know, encountering Post-War technology is new territory for the BoS, and I'd have liked to have seen (or perhaps played a role in) them work through the facts and decide what to do about the situation.  But when it's already established that of course synths are the enemy, of course they need to die, and BoS soldiers casually toss slurs at them, they run a real risk of seeming like they're more about plain old bigotry than their strict technological ideals; something that I'm certain Bethesda didn't intend.  On a more positive note, though, the quest "Blind Betrayal" is pretty neat.  I won't spoil the details, but it's well-written, has some genuine emotional stakes, and there are multiple ways to resolve it.  Almost like an RPG, in fact.

Finally, I'm very pleased that F4 didn't win any awards tonight.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 01:25:36 AM by Saddam Hussein »

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Offline beardo

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #487 on: December 04, 2015, 08:58:12 AM »
More assorted thoughts about the game.  I really like the power armor, which looks and feels, well, powerful.  It's not just a few pieces of tough armor you slip on or off like any other, it's a big-ass machine you have to clamber into and control like a walking tank.  That's how something like power armor ought to work.  However, while previously in the series, power armor has usually been a late-game feature, here it's handed to you much too quickly.  As in, within the first hour of playing.  And you don't even need training to use it now.  Also, I'm not a fan of how they're fueled by expendable fusion cores that you need to replace.  For one thing, it's inconsistent with the lore, and for another, while I'm sure they included it as an attempt to "balance" how powerful the armor is, it doesn't take long at all for you to amass a large collection of fusion cores, quickly rendering any attempt by Bethesda to limit how overpowered the player will be useless.

On the notion of factions.  I appreciate that you actually have to choose a side this time around, and that there's a lot more moral grayness at play here than there was in F3.  But as the end of the game approaches, it doesn't seem like interaction between factions is any more nuanced than "kill them all."  There's no opportunity to form alliances or convince opposing factions to at least bow out of the conflict, like you could do in NV.  Every faction wants all the others gone, with the one exception of the Minutemen, but they just ignore/are ignored by the others, rather than interacting with them in any different way.  I sided with the BoS, and their decision to destroy the Railroad especially was baffling.  They just mumble something about "potential leaks" and that's it, better slaughter them all.  Bah.

Speaking of the BoS, they're all right.  They're certainly a tremendous improvement over the Boy Scouts of the Round Table in F3.  I have a few issues with their portrayal, though - you're able to join them a bit too quickly and easily, and I wish there was more of a focus on their philosophy itself, rather than simply their end goal of destroying the Institute and wiping out all the synths.  Not that I think it's out of character for them to do that, but as far as I know, encountering Post-War technology is new territory for the BoS, and I'd have liked to have seen (or perhaps played a role in) them work through the facts and come to the decision that the Institution and its synths are a threat and need to be destroyed.  But when it's already established that of course synths are the enemy, of course they need to die, and BoS soldiers casually toss slurs at them, they run a real risk of seeming like they're more about plain old bigotry than their strict technological ideals; something that I'm certain Bethesda didn't intend.  On a more positive note, though, the quest "Blind Bigotry" is one of the best in the game.  I won't spoil the details, but it's well-written, has some genuine emotional stakes, and there are multiple ways to resolve it.  Almost like an RPG, in fact.

Finally, I'm very pleased that F4 didn't win any awards tonight.
Good job on hiding the spoiler regarding BoS, mother fucker.
The Mastery.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #488 on: December 05, 2015, 03:11:06 PM »
I didn't spoil anything, you don't care about spoilers, and "motherfucker" is one word.  Stop shitposting and actually argue with me about the quality of the game.

But yes, you are a young adult with very little experience when the game properly begins. That seems like the most acceptable starting scenario in any game based around character progression.

No, the most acceptable starting scenario is one where the player can decide for themselves what stage of their life they're in.  That's what every non-Bethesda Fallout title has done, and even Bethesda has done it themselves with every TES title.  Ironically, however, while Skyrim and F4 have done a lot to alleviate my criticisms of Bethesda's earlier games being undermining to the player in the narrative, they've now gone way too far in the other direction, "empowering" the player by having every faction fall in love with them the moment they meet.  There's a middle ground, Bethesda.  Quest givers shouldn't be refusing to give you any context for what they want you to do, nor should they be fawning over you simply for gracing them with your presence.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #489 on: December 05, 2015, 03:42:34 PM »
It sounds like Bethesda tried to turn Fallout into a Mass Effect styled RPG.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #490 on: December 11, 2015, 11:25:32 PM »
<Snupes> I decided to redo the Fallout 4 opening and make the most retarded looking characters I could
<Snupes> And as soon as I get out of the cryo pod I'm unable to move
<Snupes> It takes 10 minutes to do Fallout 4's opening
<Anastas> Le meh
<Snupes> That's not as bad as I thought.
<Anastas> Not the worst they've ever done
<Anastas> Oblivion's took like half an hour if you weren't rushing
<Snupes> Well, 4's took 10 with me doing it as quickly as possible
<Snupes> Subtracting the 15 minutes I spent making the characters
<Rushy> why are you playing fallout 4
<Snupes> I wanted to make the ugliest characters possible and see how quickly I could do the opening.
<Rushy> masochism is a serious problem
<Snupes> You would know, being the resident SC player
<Snupes> w0w, my dude has a magnificent butt
<Saddam> omg sexism
<Saddam> Also F3's intro is the worst
<Saddam> And Anastas's dumb claims about it not inhibiting roleplaying are objectively wrong
<Snupes> Fallout 3's intro sucks
<Anastas> I don't remember saying that lol
<Anastas> But I bet I made some compelling points
<Anastas> I liked Fallout 3's intro
<Rushy> F3's intro is pretty okay, but I don't like the amount of characters that only go unconcious instead of dying
<Anastas> Bring on the downvotes
<Saddam> http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=642.msg47724#msg47724
<Saddam> You also argued that silly point on the old site
<Rushy> open world games shouldn't be designed in such a way that characters necessary for quests can't die before you even start their relevant quest line
<Saddam> I remember
<Saddam> I remember everything
<Anastas> Fallout games have always began with the player character in some sort of specific situation
<Rushy> if only you used that ability to do something useful, instead of shitposting on a forum devoted to the planet being flat
<Saddam> A specific situation, yes
<Saddam> But not a specific point in their life
<Anastas> Tru... it did feel a bit odd to play an older looking character in FO3
<Saddam> Complete with a specific social role (vault loser, apparently), specific family, etc.
<Saddam> Ironically, F4's setup for the player was one step forward and one step back
<Anastas> If they actually had competent writers, I wouldn't mind it if they turned Fallout into a more plot, character driven series
<Saddam> You're given a lot more freedom to decide your past, but your present situation is much more narrowly dictated
<Anastas> And left the sandbox gameplay to the Elder Scrolls
<Saddam> I agree with that
<Anastas> But right now they're trying for this terrible middle ground
<Saddam> But they've got some weird half-TES, half-Mass Effect mashup going on right now, and it doesn't work
<Anastas> Yap. I'm holding off for a bit to allow modders to work their magic. I can't wait for the settlement system to be overhauled
<Rushy> !eightball Is Fallout 4 an objectively good game?
<Supybot> Rushy: About as likely as pigs flying.
<Anastas> With an easy way to manage all of your settlers from one locaiton
<Saddam> The wisdom of Supybot
<Rushy> problem solved
<Saddam> A top-down view of your settlements you could snap in and out of would be great
<Anastas> Yes... and a bulletin board or something with all job listings
<Rushy> SimFallout City 5

Another thing I want to talk about is companions, because here, Bethesda came close to delivering what was needed.  The companions in F4 have distinctive personalities, unique voices, and the option of character development as you spend more time with them.  And in a rare example of a borrowed feature from Mass Effect that actually works in this game's favor, their interactivity with the world around them is improved by having them occasionally take part in the conversations that you have with NPCs, or even talk with NPCs by themselves.  Sadly, what drags it all down is (much like the quests) Bethesda's reliance on automation over scripting, procedure over storytelling, and quantity over quality.  You don't earn your companions' trust and respect by convincing them through dialogue that you share their priorities, or aligning with factions that they agree with.  You earn it through picking locks, hacking computers, climbing into power armor, and other piddly minutiae that no normal person should care about this much.  Okay, there's also accepting and completing quests that they approve of, which makes more sense.  But still, it's nothing that can measure up to how well the companions were handled in NV.

One detail that especially stands out to me is just how concerned Bethesda was of having players alienate and lose access to certain companions, because they bent over backwards to make that as difficult as humanly possible.  I really can't imagine one of them leaving you unless you've been deliberately trying to piss them off as much as you can.  Compare that to NV, where some of the companions could very easily be alienated depending on what you said and who you chose to align with.  There's none of that in F4.  When your companions begin conversations with you after you raise their affinity to a certain level, nothing that you say affects the outcome of the conversation at all, or even their affinity.  They wrap it up with something along the lines of "w0w good talk bro good talk" every time.  And even more annoyingly, most of them don't care which faction you choose to support, with the only exceptions being the companions who were already members of factions - they'll attack you if you destroy their respective faction.  But nobody else cares.  Nick, Strong, Hancock, and Curie apparently have no problem working with someone who's thrown in with the BoS, an organization that literally wants them dead.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 11:31:43 PM by Saddam Hussein »

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Offline rooster

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #491 on: December 12, 2015, 03:29:08 PM »
Literally everyone else I know who has FO4 loves it. And it's been getting good reviews overall.

I really don't understand why everyone here seems to dislike it.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #492 on: December 12, 2015, 04:30:22 PM »
Literally everyone else I know who has FO4 loves it. And it's been getting good reviews overall.

I really don't understand why everyone here seems to dislike it.
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Offline Crudblud

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #493 on: December 12, 2015, 04:30:45 PM »
Literally everyone else I know who has FO4 loves it. And it's been getting good reviews overall.

I really don't understand why everyone here seems to dislike it.

Does everyone have to like F4? If not, I'm not sure why it comes as such a surprise that some people don't think it's all that great.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #494 on: December 12, 2015, 07:35:38 PM »
Of course not everyone has to like it. But the only people I know who don't like it are here. Even when it's getting overall great reviews, only beardo likes it. Just an observation.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #495 on: December 12, 2015, 10:39:58 PM »
Well, I guess I'm able to like a game for what it is without being a nostalgia goggle or a pretentious cunt.
The Mastery.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Fallout series
« Reply #496 on: December 12, 2015, 10:53:26 PM »
It's an entertaining game, but an awful RPG.  Even most of the professional reviews seem to acknowledge the bulk of our criticisms, like the terrible new dialogue system, general lack of choices, and dumbed-down RPG elements.  They're apparently just a lot more forgiving of those flaws.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #497 on: December 12, 2015, 11:13:07 PM »
It's an entertaining game, but an awful RPG.  Even most of the professional reviews seem to acknowledge the bulk of our criticisms, like the terrible new dialogue system, general lack of choices, and dumbed-down RPG elements.  They're apparently just a lot more forgiving of those flaws.
It's almost as if gaming media had a corruption/culture problem :^)
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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #498 on: December 13, 2015, 12:01:39 AM »
Literally everyone else I know who has FO4 loves it. And it's been getting good reviews overall.

I really don't understand why everyone here seems to dislike it.
Because most FES members love two things. They love to be contrarian, and they love to suck ass at everything related to games.
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Offline Snupes

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Re: Fallout series
« Reply #499 on: December 13, 2015, 03:19:56 AM »
But Fallout 4 is the easiest game I've played in a long time. It just happens to suck.
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