Recent Posts

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https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13290

This is some fascinating research that proves in an elegant way that birds use electomagnetism to orient themselves in the direction they are supposed to migrate.

These birds kept in an urban lab would just bounce around in random directions, confused, but when taken to the countryside, the birds would know which way to orient themselves. They hypothesized that the electromagnetic 'noise' permeating the urban lab was responsible for disrupting the birds' ability to orient themselves in the direction of migration.

Fun fact, a compass will still work inside a Faraday cage. So, they covered the urban birds' cages with a Faraday cage to block any outside electromagnetic interference and lo and behold, the birds' ability to orient in the direction of migration was returned. Even though the exact bio-magnetic mechanisms are not fully understood, the experiment proves that birds' navigational abilities are due to their ability to sense electromagnetism.



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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Islam and Flat Earth
« Last post by scomato on Today at 04:29:22 AM »
Regardless of what might get taught in Islamic schools by teachers, the Islamic governments seem to be heavily invested in space programs of their own.

Saudi Arabia's Space Commission: https://saudispace.gov.sa/en/home/ Notably, two years ago the Saudi Arabsat television satellite was the payload aboard a SpaceX launch.



Iranian Space Agency: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Space_Agency Ironic considering the Revolutionary Guard claims to uphold hardline Islamic values by force, but also say that they have no comprehensive defense plan unless they have a presence in space.

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Mr. Bishop, migratory birds navigation has already mostly been explained. Your chosen article is a branch off from the topic, and far more interesting.

Your article focuses on homing pigeon navigation in their ability to fly home after long travel periods of great sensory deprivation. Scientists may have an incomplete understanding of how homing pigeons achieve this, but the nose knows theory and magnetic map theory are far from nonsensical. Scientists have confirmed the presence of magnetite in homing pigeon beaks which may act as a tiny gps unit for the pigeon, giving it information about its position relative to earth's poles.

There are places around the world with magnetic anomalies that repeatedly confuse the direction of homing pigeons, offering proof they rely on magnetic navigation to a degree. Infrasound has also been suggested as used by homing pigeons.

I should be disgusted if no theory were offered up by science to explain homing pigeon ability. From your flat earth studies, do you have a more complete explanation, Mr. Bishop?

As the article states, magnetism alone isn't enough for the precise navigation performed. In migration birds need to know where to migrate and how to migrate back home.

https://www.kaytee.com/learn-care/wild-bird/10-facts-about-migrating-birds

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4. Migrating birds know where to go

Instinctively, migrating birds know where to migrate and how to navigate back home. They use the stars, the sun, and earth’s magnetism to help them find their way. They also almost always return home to where they were born. Because of this, you could be right if you think you see the same bird each year in your yard.

https://abcbirds.org/blog/five-fantastic-bird-migration-facts/

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Migratory birds can remember and return to the exact location where they were born.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Bird_migration

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Migrations typically occur along established routes called "flyways." The migrating species often return to the area of their birth to breed.

https://indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofscience/birds-migrate-reach-destination-map.php

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Birds all over the world are completing their migratory journeys. Sometimes their journeys are as long as 22,000 miles!

How Do They Do That?!

One bird in particular, the Arctic Tern, is able to migrate back to where it was born even if it has been separated from its parents.

Many parents leave the nest before young birds are able to fly. Yet, even without parental guidance, the young birds are able to travel home. Birds all over the world are completing their migratory journeys. Sometimes their journeys are as long as 22,000 miles!

When they are alone, they travel in darkness and may even create landmarks when flying over water.

Another theory is that the birds are somehow able to access the earth's magnetic north/south pole lines. The young birds use the sun and these lines to safely guide themselves. However, scientists have not been able to prove that the birds use landmarks, magnetic lines, or some other guidance system.

The birds return to where they were born. Yes, this does need to be explained in order to be able to claim to know how birds migrate.
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Mr. Bishop, migratory birds navigation has already mostly been explained. Your chosen article is a branch off from the topic, and far more interesting.

Your article focuses on homing pigeon navigation in their ability to fly home after long travel periods of great sensory deprivation. Scientists may have an incomplete understanding of how homing pigeons achieve this, but the nose knows theory and magnetic map theory are far from nonsensical. Scientists have confirmed the presence of magnetite in homing pigeon beaks which may act as a tiny gps unit for the pigeon, giving it information about its position relative to earth's poles.

There are places around the world with magnetic anomalies that repeatedly confuse the direction of homing pigeons, offering proof they rely on magnetic navigation to a degree. Infrasound has also been suggested as used by homing pigeons.

I should be disgusted if no theory were offered up by science to explain homing pigeon ability. From your flat earth studies, do you have a more complete explanation, Mr. Bishop?
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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« Last post by Roundy on Today at 12:19:40 AM »
Point is, this is very clearly not related to the 2020 election so how the hell did anyone fall for it?

Oh, those gullible Republicans!
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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« Last post by Lord Dave on May 17, 2021, 08:01:47 PM »
Hey Trump lied about the Maricopa audit. Surprised?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2021/05/15/trump-says-arizona-audit-found-unbelievable-election-crime-nonsense/5115549001/

....
What bothers me is that you can clearly see when the file were made (a year before the deletion date or more) and what they were called (things relating to 2019 elections or something).

Point is, this is very clearly not related to the 2020 election so how the hell did anyone fall for it? 
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Thanks for responding.  As I mentioned before, I find this subject matter very interesting; all the theories intuitively make sense but are so HARD for me to believe.  I think the general consensus here is that scientists can't 100 percent explain the phenomenon anyway and FE people don't think the shape of the earth would effect the migration.   Is that correct?  I was kind of hoping a flat-earth model could explain birds ability better.  It looks like nobody's going to be able to explain this shit for a long time and will remain a mystery.

One more thing, NASA, SPACEFORCE, and various other country air forces say that they have used satellites to map bird migration routes, protect habitats, prevent invasive species, etc.  I've heard that man FE people are very suspicious of satellites in general.  Do you think NASA is lying here.  Are satellites able to track quickly moving small objects like birds over long distances?  Again, I'm seriously curious about this topic and am VERY interested what the community thinks. 
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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Islam and Flat Earth
« Last post by أسامة السلفي on May 17, 2021, 07:14:02 PM »
The Holy Quran, the word of God, and the words of God are interpreted as they are. If God says the earth is flat, it is flat, and God says in the Qur’an in Surat al-Ghashiyah  He tells the meaning that you To look and contemplate at the camels, how they were created, and to the sky, how God raised them and to the earth, how did God make them flat

There are dozens of verses in the Qur’an telling the earth is flat

I advise you to read this trusted interpretation of the Holy Quran👇

https://m.apkpure.com/ar/tafsir-ibn-kathir-english/com.goldensoft.interpretationkathiren
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My input on this topic is that the mechanics of bird navigation is another example of how science pretends to "know" how something works, but in reality is just another falsity in the end. Science does not know much of anything outside of the hard sciences (due to difficulty of direct experimentation on all elements), including how birds navigate. You were told in school that we knew how birds navigate but, alas, this was a lie.

CornellLab - All About Birds - https://www.allaboutbirds.org/news/the-basics-migration-navigation/

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Homing pigeons have been used extensively as test subjects in order to develop a better understanding of migration and homing abilities. They have exhibited almost unbelievable navigation skills.

In one noted experiment, German scientist Hans Wallraff transported homing pigeons to a very distant location. To ensure that the birds did not receive any external navigational information, they were transferred under stringent conditions. The pigeons were transported in closed, airtight cylinders and provided bottled air. Light was turned on and off at random times and loud white noise was played. The cylinders were enclosed in magnetic coils that provided a changing magnetic field. Finally, the cylinders were mounted on a tilting turntable connected to a computer that varied both the rotation and tilt of the cylinders. After release at the distant and completely unknown area, the birds were able to fly home to their roost, apparently without trouble (other than an initial case of nausea).

The pigeons’ ability to fly home from a totally strange and distant location indicates that somehow the birds have both an internal compass and an internal map. A compass by itself would not be helpful, since the bird would not know if it were north, south, east or west of its home. The question of how a bird has a map of a location to which it has never been before (and was transferred to under such isolated conditions in the above test) and the sense of the direction it must take to return home remains a puzzle. Some possible explanations have been proposed, as follows:

Internal Maps

The Nose Knows Theory


How could a bird possibly have a map of places it has never been? One very surprising theory suggests that homing pigeons may use an olfactory map.

Visualize a pigeon in its home loft with the smell of pine trees from one direction and the smell of an onion farm in another. If the bird moves closer to the pine trees, the odor of pine will presumably grow stronger while the odor of onions grows weaker. In theory, a gradient map of odors could be created that would provide some directional information, even if the pigeon were suddenly dropped into a new location. Floriano Papi and others from the University of Pisa initiated this theory and have some evidence that olfactory navigation may extend to a distance of 310 miles. This theory remains controversial.

Magnetic Map Theory

A second theory suggests that birds use the earth’s magnetic field to obtain at least a partial map of its position. The earth’s magnetic field becomes stronger as you travel away from the equator and toward the poles. In theory, a bird might be able to estimate its latitude based on the strength of the magnetic field. While the change in strength is very small from one location to the next, there is some indication that homing pigeons have the sensitivity to detect even tiny changes in the strength of the magnetic field. Even if true, this would provide only a limited indication of the bird’s latitude.

At this time there is no clear evidence that either of these theories is the complete story and the mapping skills of birds remains largely unexplained.

The educators and writers had too much pride to simply admit that bird navigation was "largely unexplained" so they propagated some nonsense based on incomplete science to placate you with. You should be disgusted.