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Messages - Pete Svarrior

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Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 28, 2021, 10:49:06 AM »
These are characteristics of living on a sphere.
Of course, you've been here long enough to know that this isn't the case, and why it isn't, so let's pretend you've repeated all your tired arguments and we moved past this. If you really want to relive the experience, just read an older thread.
But the point is none of the observations I have mentioned directly tell you the shape of the earth.
Indeed - you had to cherry-pick experiences to avoid the ones that destroy the RE model. If you went for direct experiences you can currently access, you'd be cruising for an own goal.

They are more along the lines of "if the earth is a sphere then things would disappear bottom first below the horizon, if the earth is flat then they wouldn't, things would just get smaller until they are too small to see or rendered invisible by limits of visibility".
This is not only a terrible example of an experience that could determine the shape of the Earth, you also misrepresented the FE side of the argument. I promised not to immediately assume the worst out of you, so here we go: you are very mistaken about the FE prediction, and I really doubt you'll be able to reach many meaningful conclusions without first understanding the position you're arguing against. RE'ers going "NUH UH IF EARTH FLAT THEN YOU BELIEVE <thing no FE'er would ever believe>" is a major barrier to RE zealots examining the subject sincerely.

I'd suggest that going high enough to actually see the earth as it really is, is the only way to directly experience the shape of the Earth.
Except for the fact that this experience breaks completely under EA. You would simply see what you want to see, and you've already decided and declared what that would be. It would get us precisely nowhere.

Although I don't think the line is as distinct as we like to think. It's like the difference between "believing" something and "knowing" it. The only actual difference is your own perception of how certain you are. That doesn't mean you're right. Scientific "facts" have often been shown to be wrong as new discoveries are made.
That's why I focused on the word "indisputable". I would accept it as indisputable that if I drop a heavy object while standing on the Earth's surface, that object will fall to the ground. Someone could dispute that just to make a point, but no such dispute would go particularly far.

People misusing the word "fact" to mean "opinion, but really strong this time" is also a problem, but I don't think it's one that's fully solvable - my suggestion would be to keep punching that confidence down until you reach a reasonable standard. Is it an indisputable fact that if I drop my mug, it'll fall to the floor? Yeah, more or less. Is it an indisputable fact that it will break on impact? No, though I'm pretty sure it would, having dropped many mugs before. Is it an indisputable fact that the mug handle will break off on impact, and shatter into precisely 3 pieces? No, and that particular scenario is not very likely.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 27, 2021, 10:22:13 PM »
No, I'm done with the 3 pictures.
That's a shame. You've only touched one of them, and you exposed yourself as someone who's not interested in a discussion, but rather in reinforcing your own preconceptions, even against the plainly visible. You chose to just pretend not to see the flaw in your argument even after we rubbed your face all over it. A terrible start which will weigh you down here for as long as it takes you to sort yourself out.

But who knows - perhaps you will learn with future failures, even if you choose not to admit them.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 27, 2021, 09:49:55 PM »
I am not trolling and I'm certainly not handwaving away your arguments.
Okay. I'll watch from the sidelines and see for myself just how serious you are. So far, you're off to a terrible start, still denying the blindingly obvious, and trying to rationalise it away desperately. You're off to a terrible start, but hey, let's see how you handle things.

You did, unsurprisingly, measure the curvature of the wrong reference point, and you hyperfixated on the only image you could manipulate in that way - but we both knew that was coming. After all, you had no other choice if you wanted to force the RET narrative. Let's call that strike one.

Will you fix that by yourself, or are we going to have to drag you, kicking and screaming, through the process?

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 27, 2021, 11:00:13 AM »
Isn't that all we've got on many things which we can't directly experience?
I strongly disagree that this is applicable here. We can experience the shape of the Earth much more directly, without relying on hearsay.

That said:

How do we form opinions on anything outside of our day to day reality?
Oh, I don't mind opinions, most people don't have a particularly high standard for those, and I'm no exception. It's when you start calling your half-arsed opinions "indisputable facts" that I get a bit miffed. As a society, have a serious problem with people conflating opinions with facts.

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: embed tweets
« on: July 27, 2021, 08:23:47 AM »
Of course - just submit a PR once you're done and we'll happily integrate it. No need to ask here.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 26, 2021, 09:47:43 PM »
Ok. Let´s take this set of pictures one by one. First picture: if you draw a line from left to right at the points where the horizon intersects with the border of the picture, then you will see that the horizon is a little bit above that line in the middle of the picture
You are not going to waste our time "NUH UH"-ing at things which can be plainly seen. You will be expected to examine your beliefs in good faith whilst you're posting here. If you'd rather blindly pretend otherwise, go somewhere else. If you don't make this decision yourself, we'll make it for you.

You asked for your examples, and you were provided with them. Instead of pretending you're not competent enough to realise this, you may want to reflect on why this is, and why your "indisputable fact" was so easily refuted.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 26, 2021, 08:36:19 PM »
Hi Pete. I´m not struggling with the pictures.
Since you're about to prove yourself wrong within *checks notes* one sentence, I won't take too much time disputing this.

They just don´t show any concave curved horizon.
Except you just presented us with evidence to the contrary. A bit desperate, don't you think?

[This forum pretends to be openly investigating FE
There is only one person here who's pretending, and that would be you.

So please change your tone a bit.
I will change my tone once you stop pretending that you're not seeing the blindingly obvious. Until then, you're an extremely transparent troll trying to disrupt sincere discussion. It is entirely up to you whether you'll sort yourself out by yourself, or whether you'll be treated like the troll you currently are.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 26, 2021, 08:08:29 PM »
Concave: having an outline or surface that curves inwards like the interior of a circle or sphere.
Similare like ´hollow´
None of the 3 pictures show a concave horizon.
Yes, I know what the word means, and I showed you 3 examples of it occurring. If you truly struggle this much with analysing a simple image, then it's no wonder you've been making silly statements all over the place. Confidence does not substitute competence.

Now that's interesting: I resized the HORIZONTAL size of the first picture (taken at 32k feet alt.), without touching the vertical size. I shrunk the horizontal size to 20% of the original. This emphasizes the vertical lines. When doing this, the convex curvature becomes apparent.
No, it doesn't, and you very handily provided us with an image that proves you wrong. Now, it may well be that you're measuring the curvature of the wrong line, but I really can't help you with that, now, can I?

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 26, 2021, 05:14:29 PM »
Can you pls point to the part(s) where the Earth appears to be concave?
Of course. Here are a couple of screenshots for your convenience, with the timestamps included:

I didn´t see that in the footage.
That makes it rather obvious that you either haven't watched the footage at all, or paid extremely little attention - and therein lies the problem with most RE'ers. You should exercise more scrutiny before you declare something an "indisputable fact".

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 26, 2021, 02:44:24 PM »
Have any of the people who experienced it said they saw a flat horizon at that height though?
I'm not aware of any of them describing the shape of the horizon at all, nor do I see any reason to pay much attention to hearsay. Besides, there is no need for you to shift the goalposts just yet. It was claimed that the footage is indisputable. It is beneficial for hvanmunster to understand just how disputable it is.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Branson to go only 55 miles up !
« on: July 26, 2021, 11:45:33 AM »
What matters to determine the shape of the Earth is that the footage of these 2 events clearly show a  curved horizon. These facts are undisputable.
I trust that you will also consider the parts that appear to show the Earth to be concave to be indisputable facts? What about the ones in which no curvature is apparent? Why is one of those 3 states, each present in the footage, "indisputable" to you?

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« on: July 24, 2021, 07:10:17 PM »
This point keeps being raised, and the best thing that can be said about it is that it is technically true. Depending on the specific vaccine, choosing not to be vaccinated increases your chances of developing symptoms by a factor of between 3 and 10. Even if you do get infected after being vaccinated, you are likely to experience a shorter time to recovery, which reduces the number of opportunities you have to spread the virus.
It's also worth highlighting that someone asymptomatic is, in some ways*, less likely to spread the virus whilst infected. An obvious example: coughing is more likely to project aerosols/droplets over some distance than regular breathing. This is especially significant now that restrictions and other countermeasures are easing in many parts of the world.

* - Obligatory disclaimer that an asymptomatic individual can also be more likely to spread the virus due to insufficient caution - they might not be cautious if they don't even know they're infectious.

Yeah, people really struggle with sample sizes. 1001 is well above average, as long as the methodology isn't skewed.

From what I can see in the report, they did explicitly query political beliefs, so the correlation is actually in the data.

I work with Polish teams quite a lot. I'll send these to them to see if they can glean anything useful.
Thank you!

In the meantime, I managed to sign up for a trial of their OGB Pro service, which granted me access to the original report. I'll make copies available here soon.

It would seem that the Polish Nationwide Research Group conducted research into Polish citizens' belief in "conspiracy theories" in late January 2021. The original source appears to be behind a paywall (and it wouldn't take my credit card - I swear I'm not that broke; I'll keep trying), but a couple of news articles in relatively reputable media have covered it as a story:

Unfortunately, I was unable to find anything in English, but Google Translate seems to spit out a pretty reasonable translation for these.

Based on these articles, it would seem that:
  • 4% of Poles believe that the Earth is flat, significantly lagging behind the 11% of moon landing sceptics
  • The belief is particularly popular in smaller cities and towns, at 5.6%
  • The age group most likely to believe in a Flat Earth is around the age of 30, with just over 6% of believers
  • 5% of Law and Justice (PiS) voters believe the Earth is flat, in stark contrast to 0% among Polish People's Party (PSL) voters. Similarly, PiS voters are much more likely to believe that the moon landing was a hoax, with those voting for the Left Together (Lewica Razem) being least likely to follow this belief.

According to both articles, this poll was performed on a sample size of 1001 Polish adults, which is pretty impressive for such a niche subject. I hope we can get to the original source to see if there's more detail to get out of it. If anyone has more luck with it than I did, help would be very much appreciated.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« on: July 19, 2021, 01:41:33 PM »
I guess I'm wondering why people doubt its existence when it's relatively easy to prove that it really does exist.
Personally, I haven't been able to establish much of a rapport with the people who claim the ISS doesn't exist. They tend to dismiss me as some sort of Illuminati government "shill", or whatever.

Doesn't that strike you as odd?
After spending as many years here as I have, it no longer strikes me as odd that very unreasonable people exist. We get FE'ers with borderline indefensible beliefs, and RE'ers who struggle to tell the difference between velocity and acceleration, and who yet still feel confident in debating physics. But I do understand where you're coming from.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: The ISS - Who Should I believe?
« on: July 19, 2021, 01:31:15 PM »
So who should I believe?

1. A flat earther who tells me it doesn't exist
Neither. You've already done the exact right thing - you asked a question and set out to perform your own observation and draw your own conclusion. If you're happy with your results, what else are you hoping to achieve by posting about it?

Flat Earth Community / MOVED: Flooding
« on: July 16, 2021, 10:04:08 PM »

Flat Earth Community / Re: Religion for flat earthers
« on: July 14, 2021, 05:19:32 PM »
Says the round-Earther, citing the state of affairs from 100-200 years ago, talking over actual FE'ers who are trying to answer OP's question. Yeah, I'm gonna have to ask you not to make authoritative statements on subjects you have no understanding of.

That's actually a nice piece of work.  How do you account for the fact [that I disagree with you!!!]
WTF_S, this is not how forum threads work. Stay on topic.

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