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Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?

« Last post by Realestfake on Today at 08:04:27 PM »

No external pressure outside the rocket?

No plume.

No plume?

No movement.

The end.

If I throw a bowling ball while standing on a skateboard, did I move backwards because of air resistance?

I’m going to make this incredibly simple.
You want to use the “pushing off an atmosphere” idea.
Okay.
Imagine the inside of an engine. The explosive power of the combustion pushes against the inside of the engine opposite of the plume, moving the rocket. No part of that process required an atmosphere.
The rocket is pushing against something inside itself.

Is conservation of angular momentum real to you but general conservation of momentum isn’t?

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Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?

« Last post by Action80 on Today at 07:08:14 PM »

Ronj is going on about a "plumb," he must have pulled out with his thumb over in a corner somewhere. Conveniently forgetting that no "plumb," assigns a big fat 0 to the A in the equation. I don't care if you multiply 1,000,000 M's to the big fat 0 of A, F will end up as a big fat 0.

Donutz is still asking how jets move when he is supposedly a former jet engine mechanic (by the way my nephew is currently employed by United Airlines, having served over 10 years as a former Air Force jet engine mechanic). Jets too, form a plume in the pressurized atmoplane, allowing them to move. The only difference in accomplishing their operation of movement is jets require an intake of external oxygen to achieve combustion (open system), whereas rockets do not have air intakes and have a self-contained material allowing combustion to take place when it is mixed with the fuel.

And faker is going on about who is ill-prepared, when his lack of reasoning has been so thoroughly discredited on this site it is laughable.

You are the one, faker, who was posting the bounce-around terms, clearly subscribing to them, just willy-nilly all over the place.

Really laughable.

Typical.

Rockets work in a pressurized environment where they can form a plume.

No external pressure outside the rocket?

No plume.

No plume?

No movement.

The end.

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Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?

« Last post by Realestfake on Today at 06:22:49 PM »

And I agree the terms, "aren’t just randomly used interchangeably," so it would be beneficial for everyone if you stopped doing just that.

I’m sorry Action, but you’re just fundamentally unprepared for this debate. You were unable to discern the terminology of “space” vs “deep space” and inappropriately attributed to a mistake on MY end.

To quote the article: “satellites, spaceships, space stations and deep-space probes”

This is absolutely correct usage because probes are in fact designed for deep space, while space stations are in LEO. You saying I’m using them “interchangeably” demonstrates your own lack of understanding 
I recognize you have nothing to add and honestly? That’s okay. You have time to learn still.

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Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?

« Last post by Realestfake on Today at 05:47:50 PM »

I already stated how rockets move.

You stated how you think rockets move, as did Tom Bishop. Nothing of value was provided as evidence or reasoning.
If I throw a bowling ball while standing on a skateboard, did air resistance move me in the opposite direction?

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Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?

« Last post by DuncanDoenitz on Today at 05:41:55 PM »

Whether a plume can form in a vacuum or not, can you expand on its relevance to propulsion?  Your opening hypothesis is that a plume somehow imparts movement to the rocket, but you have not explained how this happens; what is the science behind this? 

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Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?

« Last post by RonJ on Today at 05:35:51 PM »

The ‘plumb’ in space doesn’t have anything to do with the production of a force by the rocket engine.  A rocket contains fuel that has a mass, and an amount of dormant energy.  When combustion occurs, the dormant energy is released, and that energy effectively accelerates the mass of the fuel.  The combusted fuel is accelerating out the back of the rocket.  When you apply Newton’s law you have an equal and opposite amount of force (F = MA) applied on the rocket in the direction opposite to the direction of the exiting combusted fuel.  It doesn’t matter if the rocket’s environment is in air or a vacuum.  Newton’s law applies equally in either environment. 

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Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?

« Last post by Action80 on Today at 05:02:52 PM »

And I agree the terms, "aren’t just randomly used interchangeably," so it would be beneficial for everyone if you stopped doing just that.

I… didn’t?

Yeah, you did...
[/quote]

deep-space .”

space

Anything else you have said since me bringing this up has been painfully obvious avoidance of the topic. You have arbitrarily established that plumes cannot form without pressure. There is literally nothing anywhere that demonstrates or claims this. You made it too easy.

I have not avoided the topic at all.

I already stated how rockets move.

A gas plume from a rocket cannot form in an environment absent of external pressure.

That is the fact of the matter and nothing you have provided states otherwise, aside from the usual gaslighting bs practiced by a bunch of know-nothings trying to pass themselves off as expurtts.

They use a generic term like "space," just like you do, deliberately misleading people into picturing something like a scene from Buck Rodgers, when in fact a rocket will perform work in "space," as long that space has an adequate amount of pressure to allow a plume to form when the rocket ejects the self-contained gas.

A vacuum in "outer space" such as reported by RE-adherents, does not possess enough environmental pressure. 

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Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?

« Last post by Realestfake on Today at 04:12:19 PM »

And I agree the terms, "aren’t just randomly used interchangeably," so it would be beneficial for everyone if you stopped doing just that.

I… didn’t? No amount of squirming your way out of it (“heh, pick between space and deep space!”, “erm… but they said 60-80k in the same article when talking about something else…”, “erm… I will ignore the contents of what was sent because IT’S JUST REFERENCES”) changes the fact that scientists call the jet of gases coming out a rocket in space a plume. Your willful avoidance of this is just not a good look on your part 

”In the space vacuum the exhaust gases form a large free jet, called a plume, which can impinge on neighbouring surfaces.”
https://doi.org/10.1016/0376-0421(91)90008-R

Anything else you have said since me bringing this up has been painfully obvious avoidance of the topic. You have arbitrarily established that plumes cannot form without pressure. There is literally nothing anywhere that demonstrates or claims this. You made it too easy.

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Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?

« Last post by Action80 on Today at 07:48:30 AM »

This is a different paper. It makes no mention of 60-80 km. Not surprised you didn’t actually read any of it.
You know the terms “space” and “deep space” aren’t just randomly used interchangeably right?

There was no "paper," just an abstract and a list of references, so you didn't, "read it," either.

And I agree the terms, "aren’t just randomly used interchangeably," so it would be beneficial for everyone if you stopped doing just that.

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Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?

« Last post by Realestfake on Today at 07:40:09 AM »

”In the space vacuum the exhaust gases form a large free jet, called a plume, which can impinge on neighbouring surfaces.”
https://doi.org/10.1016/0376-0421(91)90008-R

Again, switching between the terms "space," and "deep space," is kinda funny.

Rockets can work at altitudes of 60-80 km.

This is a different paper. It makes no mention of 60-80 km. Not surprised you didn’t actually read any of it.
You know the terms “space” and “deep space” aren’t just randomly used interchangeably right?