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Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« Last post by Pete Svarrior on Today at 06:27:31 PM »

Well, firstly I'd note that there is no FE authority. The basis of this being chosen as the experiment was FE YouTubers agreeing that this observation would be problematic for FE.

Yeah, I'm just suggesting that that's a critical flaw in the decision-making process, without claiming to be an authority myself. They'll run their experiment, they'll reach their conclusion (we both agree what it will be), and... what happens then?

The grifters on YouTube continue grifting - ceasing was never an option. Earnest FE'ers continue being FE'ers - after all, the experiment doesn't attempt to address anything meaningful. So... what are we dropping $60k+ on here, exactly? And where is it coming from?

Right now, this has all the markings of an attempt at embezzlement. That is why I'm against it. Otherwise, I don't care what the YT crowd do - they don't affect real FE'ers in any way.

There's some stuff on the Wiki with light shining through a glass dome but I don't think that would actually explain this.

People get confused by the glass dome, I get that. As a visualisation, it has the same problem as trying to use a massively scaled-down ball to demonstrate gravity. The scaled-down FE model makes adjustments (replacing the atmolayer with a glass dome) to make it visually equivalent to the real efects of EA combined with internal reflection.

Of course, I'm entirely guessing as to what your objection might be here - but that's usually what it is.

That said - a small side point of objection here: that particular aspect of the model has a lot of tractions with groups other than ours, even ones that think we're FBI shills or whatever. Even comes up among the Twitter anti-vax deep-south crazies. The claim that they spoke to multiple FE'ers and nobody pointed this out to them is extremely suspicious to me.

I vaguely agree it won't achieve anything - my gut feel is the YouTubers who are conceding that this would be an issue for (their version of) FE would not actually concede the point if they made the observations, because cognitive dissonance.

Or because they're grifters with a financial incentive.

Mind you, the same goes for the RE'ers.

FTFE, the only participant so far, previously had some of his accounts blocked after some nasties porn-bombed him during a livestream. He immediately started crying for donations, explaining that he's disabled and that if the revenue from his online persona runs dry, he'd be left without a means to live. He's probably stuck with his "stupidity bad, i am very smart" schtick for the rest of his life.

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Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« Last post by AATW on Today at 05:02:03 PM »

You watch too much YouTube. Seriously.

This is certainly true, although I don't actually watch that much FE stuff on there.
I quite like Dave McKeegan, I've gone off SciManDan. Don't watch much of anyone else.

It wouldn't, though. It's only an issue for the YouTubers' understanding of FE.

Well, firstly I'd note that there is no FE authority. The basis of this being chosen as the experiment was FE YouTubers agreeing that this observation would be problematic for FE.
So they might not understand your version of FET, but they would presumably say the same about you not understanding their version. Who is the authority here?
Secondly, I'd be interested how a 24 hours sun rotating in one direction around the observer at or near the Northern pole, and in the other direction at or near the Southern pole would work in the Monopole model. There's some stuff on the Wiki with light shining through a glass dome but I don't think that would actually explain this. The Bi-polar model may explain it better but creates a load of other issues in terms of how the sun moves and how that would match observations.

It's an extremely low bar to set, and one that can be met without wasting a ton of donation money. Like, yeah, those guys are gonna see the Sun for an entire day, and it's gonna accomplish nothing.

I vaguely agree it won't achieve anything - my gut feel is the YouTubers who are conceding that this would be an issue for (their version of) FE would not actually concede the point if they made the observations, because cognitive dissonance.

Now, what would be interesting is to see how much money they embezzle out of the scheme

The finances are interesting and unclear to me. Maybe the answer is in one of their YouTube videos but how this is being financed is unclear to me. There's no "Donate" button on the website, or if there is I couldn't see it. Maybe there's something about it in one of the videos but I'm not sure how they're raising the money. I agree that some scrutiny of that is appropriate.

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Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« Last post by Pete Svarrior on May 17, 2024, 10:16:29 PM »

Yeah, I know, there's probably a deeper underlying issue here. Why wouldn't I trust these upstanding people, especially after they publicly disclosed their financial incentives? It just doesn't make sense.

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Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« Last post by DuncanDoenitz on May 17, 2024, 10:14:16 PM »

It's on the internet, and you suspect its a scam?  Have you no faith in human kindness? 

I'm truly shocked by your cynicism, Pete.  Shocked. 

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Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« Last post by Pete Svarrior on May 17, 2024, 09:52:58 PM »

Oh, and for the sake of clarity: it's also very telling that the only people the YouTube channel refers to as potential FE'ers to be involved are known grifters with a financial incentive. Let's be blunt: this is a scam on both sides, and we should all be better than giving them any time out of our days.

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Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« Last post by Pete Svarrior on May 17, 2024, 09:48:34 PM »

I saw an interview the bloke behind this did with FTFE.

Ah, truly a duo of titans then. A guy whose entire livelihood relies on insisting that the Earth is round and calling his detractors idiots validated this other guy. Yes, quite, indubitably.

You watch too much YouTube. Seriously.

The aim is to send one globe earther and one flat earther to Antarctica to observe the 24 hour sun - which would be an issue for the monopole model.

It wouldn't, though. It's only an issue for the YouTubers' understanding of FE. It's an extremely low bar to set, and one that can be met without wasting a ton of donation money. Like, yeah, those guys are gonna see the Sun for an entire day, and it's gonna accomplish nothing.

Now, what would be interesting is to see how much money they embezzle out of the scheme 👀

Any thoughts on this? Would any of you have liked to be invited or would be interested in going?

I wouldn't go (entirely pointless, we already know the outcome), but I would love to offer independent scrutiny of their finances. I am openly sceptical, perhaps verging on hostile, so if they can open their books to me and get an admission that I saw no irregularities, that would surely boost their credibility. Well, within the limitations of how much credibility a faux-experiment with a predetermined outcome can have.

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Flat Earth Investigations / Re: What is the true map of the earth?

« Last post by Gonzo on May 17, 2024, 07:49:45 PM »

As anyone who has any serious knowledge of aviation knows (air traffic controller for 25yrs here), there's a lot of inaccurate nonsense and claims.

Airspeed indicators are accurate and work fine. As do the varied GNSS and SBAS systems. The various jetstreams are well known, and although always active, strength and location does vary, although can usually be forecast. 'Southern winds' are only 'anomalous' in the sense they are usually very strong. We know why.

The document Tom keeps linking to as evidence of weird flight routes is a red herring, and again written by someone with a demonstrable lock of understanding of how global commercial aviation works.

Again, having been involved in the operational side of aviation for 25yrs, I would say the majority of 'travel' writers have no idea about operational matters, just like the majority of their readers. Airlines cancel flights for all sorts of reasons. For example, yesterday British Airways had cancelled 12 departures from London Heathrow by mid afternoon, out of 347 planned.

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Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« Last post by AATW on May 17, 2024, 03:24:00 PM »

Dunno about this, AATW.  Yes, the ultimate experiment in theory, but the website makes Jeran look like George Lucas by comparison; no pages at all except a bunch of You-Tube links.  If this thing gets as far as the equator I'll eat my tinfoil hat.

I saw an interview the bloke behind this did with FTFE. He sounded pretty serious. Agree the website isn't great though. One to keep an eye on.

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Flat Earth Community / Re: The Final Experiment

« Last post by DuncanDoenitz on May 17, 2024, 03:22:32 PM »

Dunno about this, AATW.  Yes, the ultimate experiment in theory, but the website makes Jeran look like George Lucas by comparison; no pages at all except a bunch of You-Tube links.  If this thing gets as far as the equator I'll eat my tinfoil hat. 

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Flat Earth Community / The Final Experiment

« Last post by AATW on May 17, 2024, 11:43:50 AM »

I think this is the right place for this.
Are you aware of The Final Experiment?

https://www.the-final-experiment.com/

The aim is to send one globe earther and one flat earther to Antarctica to observe the 24 hour sun - which would be an issue for the monopole model. Or, if it doesn't occur would be an issue for the globe.

They have invited high profile people from both sides to participate - I didn't actually see anyone from here on the list, I think they're mostly going for YouTubers.
They say they're going to provide the funding for one person from each side, but others can join at their own expense - it was something like $30,000, so not cheap.

Any thoughts on this? Would any of you have liked to be invited or would be interested in going? Do you think this is a good experiment? If you observed the 24 hour sun in Antarctica would that change your mind about FE or would it just steer you towards a different FE model like the bi-polar one?