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Flat Earth Investigations / Re: In Flat Earth Model, How do Migratory Birds Navigate

« Last post by Tom Bishop on Today at 02:17:04 AM »

Mr. Bishop, migratory birds navigation has already mostly been explained. Your chosen article is a branch off from the topic, and far more interesting.

Your article focuses on homing pigeon navigation in their ability to fly home after long travel periods of great sensory deprivation. Scientists may have an incomplete understanding of how homing pigeons achieve this, but the nose knows theory and magnetic map theory are far from nonsensical. Scientists have confirmed the presence of magnetite in homing pigeon beaks which may act as a tiny gps unit for the pigeon, giving it information about its position relative to earth's poles.

There are places around the world with magnetic anomalies that repeatedly confuse the direction of homing pigeons, offering proof they rely on magnetic navigation to a degree. Infrasound has also been suggested as used by homing pigeons.

I should be disgusted if no theory were offered up by science to explain homing pigeon ability. From your flat earth studies, do you have a more complete explanation, Mr. Bishop?

As the article states, magnetism alone isn't enough for the precise navigation performed. In migration birds need to know where to migrate and how to migrate back home.

https://www.kaytee.com/learn-care/wild-bird/10-facts-about-migrating-birds

4. Migrating birds know where to go

Instinctively, migrating birds know where to migrate and how to navigate back home. They use the stars, the sun, and earth’s magnetism to help them find their way. They also almost always return home to where they were born. Because of this, you could be right if you think you see the same bird each year in your yard.

https://abcbirds.org/blog/five-fantastic-bird-migration-facts/

Migratory birds can remember and return to the exact location where they were born.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Bird_migration

Migrations typically occur along established routes called "flyways." The migrating species often return to the area of their birth to breed.

https://indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofscience/birds-migrate-reach-destination-map.php

Birds all over the world are completing their migratory journeys. Sometimes their journeys are as long as 22,000 miles!

How Do They Do That?!

One bird in particular, the Arctic Tern, is able to migrate back to where it was born even if it has been separated from its parents.

Many parents leave the nest before young birds are able to fly. Yet, even without parental guidance, the young birds are able to travel home. Birds all over the world are completing their migratory journeys. Sometimes their journeys are as long as 22,000 miles!

When they are alone, they travel in darkness and may even create landmarks when flying over water.

Another theory is that the birds are somehow able to access the earth's magnetic north/south pole lines. The young birds use the sun and these lines to safely guide themselves. However, scientists have not been able to prove that the birds use landmarks, magnetic lines, or some other guidance system.

The birds return to where they were born. Yes, this does need to be explained in order to be able to claim to know how birds migrate.

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Flat Earth Investigations / Re: In Flat Earth Model, How do Migratory Birds Navigate

« Last post by Harry Hoo on Today at 01:42:22 AM »

Mr. Bishop, migratory birds navigation has already mostly been explained. Your chosen article is a branch off from the topic, and far more interesting.

Your article focuses on homing pigeon navigation in their ability to fly home after long travel periods of great sensory deprivation. Scientists may have an incomplete understanding of how homing pigeons achieve this, but the nose knows theory and magnetic map theory are far from nonsensical. Scientists have confirmed the presence of magnetite in homing pigeon beaks which may act as a tiny gps unit for the pigeon, giving it information about its position relative to earth's poles.

There are places around the world with magnetic anomalies that repeatedly confuse the direction of homing pigeons, offering proof they rely on magnetic navigation to a degree. Infrasound has also been suggested as used by homing pigeons.

I should be disgusted if no theory were offered up by science to explain homing pigeon ability. From your flat earth studies, do you have a more complete explanation, Mr. Bishop?

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« Last post by Roundy on Today at 12:19:40 AM »

Point is, this is very clearly not related to the 2020 election so how the hell did anyone fall for it?

Oh, those gullible Republicans!

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« Last post by Lord Dave on May 17, 2021, 08:01:47 PM »

Hey Trump lied about the Maricopa audit. Surprised?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2021/05/15/trump-says-arizona-audit-found-unbelievable-election-crime-nonsense/5115549001/

....
What bothers me is that you can clearly see when the file were made (a year before the deletion date or more) and what they were called (things relating to 2019 elections or something).

Point is, this is very clearly not related to the 2020 election so how the hell did anyone fall for it? 

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Flat Earth Investigations / Re: In Flat Earth Model, How do Migratory Birds Navigate

« Last post by intangiblz on May 17, 2021, 07:52:03 PM »

Thanks for responding.  As I mentioned before, I find this subject matter very interesting; all the theories intuitively make sense but are so HARD for me to believe.  I think the general consensus here is that scientists can't 100 percent explain the phenomenon anyway and FE people don't think the shape of the earth would effect the migration.   Is that correct?  I was kind of hoping a flat-earth model could explain birds ability better.  It looks like nobody's going to be able to explain this shit for a long time and will remain a mystery.

One more thing, NASA, SPACEFORCE, and various other country air forces say that they have used satellites to map bird migration routes, protect habitats, prevent invasive species, etc.  I've heard that man FE people are very suspicious of satellites in general.  Do you think NASA is lying here.  Are satellites able to track quickly moving small objects like birds over long distances?  Again, I'm seriously curious about this topic and am VERY interested what the community thinks. 

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« Last post by Rama Set on May 17, 2021, 07:28:58 PM »

Hey Trump lied about the Maricopa audit. Surprised?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2021/05/15/trump-says-arizona-audit-found-unbelievable-election-crime-nonsense/5115549001/

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Islam and Flat Earth

« Last post by أسامة السلفي on May 17, 2021, 07:14:02 PM »

The Holy Quran, the word of God, and the words of God are interpreted as they are. If God says the earth is flat, it is flat, and God says in the Qur’an in Surat al-Ghashiyah  He tells the meaning that you To look and contemplate at the camels, how they were created, and to the sky, how God raised them and to the earth, how did God make them flat

There are dozens of verses in the Qur’an telling the earth is flat

I advise you to read this trusted interpretation of the Holy Quran👇

https://m.apkpure.com/ar/tafsir-ibn-kathir-english/com.goldensoft.interpretationkathiren

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Flat Earth Investigations / Re: In Flat Earth Model, How do Migratory Birds Navigate

« Last post by Tom Bishop on May 17, 2021, 12:12:07 PM »

My input on this topic is that the mechanics of bird navigation is another example of how science pretends to "know" how something works, but in reality is just another falsity in the end. Science does not know much of anything outside of the hard sciences (due to difficulty of direct experimentation on all elements), including how birds navigate. You were told in school that we knew how birds navigate but, alas, this was a lie.

CornellLab - All About Birds - https://www.allaboutbirds.org/news/the-basics-migration-navigation/

Homing pigeons have been used extensively as test subjects in order to develop a better understanding of migration and homing abilities. They have exhibited almost unbelievable navigation skills.

In one noted experiment, German scientist Hans Wallraff transported homing pigeons to a very distant location. To ensure that the birds did not receive any external navigational information, they were transferred under stringent conditions. The pigeons were transported in closed, airtight cylinders and provided bottled air. Light was turned on and off at random times and loud white noise was played. The cylinders were enclosed in magnetic coils that provided a changing magnetic field. Finally, the cylinders were mounted on a tilting turntable connected to a computer that varied both the rotation and tilt of the cylinders. After release at the distant and completely unknown area, the birds were able to fly home to their roost, apparently without trouble (other than an initial case of nausea).

The pigeons’ ability to fly home from a totally strange and distant location indicates that somehow the birds have both an internal compass and an internal map. A compass by itself would not be helpful, since the bird would not know if it were north, south, east or west of its home. The question of how a bird has a map of a location to which it has never been before (and was transferred to under such isolated conditions in the above test) and the sense of the direction it must take to return home remains a puzzle. Some possible explanations have been proposed, as follows:

Internal Maps

The Nose Knows Theory

How could a bird possibly have a map of places it has never been? One very surprising theory suggests that homing pigeons may use an olfactory map.

Visualize a pigeon in its home loft with the smell of pine trees from one direction and the smell of an onion farm in another. If the bird moves closer to the pine trees, the odor of pine will presumably grow stronger while the odor of onions grows weaker. In theory, a gradient map of odors could be created that would provide some directional information, even if the pigeon were suddenly dropped into a new location. Floriano Papi and others from the University of Pisa initiated this theory and have some evidence that olfactory navigation may extend to a distance of 310 miles. This theory remains controversial.

Magnetic Map Theory

A second theory suggests that birds use the earth’s magnetic field to obtain at least a partial map of its position. The earth’s magnetic field becomes stronger as you travel away from the equator and toward the poles. In theory, a bird might be able to estimate its latitude based on the strength of the magnetic field. While the change in strength is very small from one location to the next, there is some indication that homing pigeons have the sensitivity to detect even tiny changes in the strength of the magnetic field. Even if true, this would provide only a limited indication of the bird’s latitude.

At this time there is no clear evidence that either of these theories is the complete story and the mapping skills of birds remains largely unexplained.

The educators and writers had too much pride to simply admit that bird navigation was "largely unexplained" so they propagated some nonsense based on incomplete science to placate you with. You should be disgusted.

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Flat Earth Investigations / Re: In Flat Earth Model, How do Migratory Birds Navigate

« Last post by jack44556677 on May 17, 2021, 10:40:17 AM »

This applies to fish as well.

youtube.com/watch?v=gQ4Nm1TMalI&t=149s

We do know that we can make birds act wacky under magnetic and electric fields - which leads some to speculate that one or more of those factors are involved in their “internal gps”.  Like most everything else in science, this has no relevance to the shape of the entire world.

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Flat Earth Investigations / In Flat Earth Model, How do Migratory Birds Navigate

« Last post by intangiblz on May 17, 2021, 02:02:58 AM »

Hey there, I've become obsessed with a certain topic lately and I'm EXTREMELY interested in the opinions of members of this forum.  I originally posted this on reddit and am reposting it here.

A little under half world's bird population migrate long distances every year. Typically, the birds spend half the year up north during the summer and half the year down south during the winter. The whole process is really impressive; reportedly some birds like the Arctic tern fly from the north to south pole every year. Apparently, over short distances and with familiar paths, birds usually use landmarks to navigate. However, on long trips, birds supposedly don't need landmarks and do just fine at night, in the dark, and when it's overcast (IE they don't rely on the sun, moon, or stars).
There's a lot of content online about Migratory bird navigation systems that I don't 100 percent understand. In Youtube videos and articles on Movebank.org (the big migratory animal hotspot), scientists use terms like quantum biology, and internal GPS. I guess the basic gist is that birds have an internal navigation system that allows them to go towards the north and south pole like a compass. The theories make intuitive sense to me but at the same time are super hard to believe.
Basically, I want to know how FE people explain migratory bird's ability to navigate. Am I overthinking this whole thing? Perhaps this topic has come up already. I personally believe the world is round but am super skeptical of NASA and anything related to space.
lol As I mentioned, I've done a lot of research on this topic. There's LOTS of NASA related websites where they talk about how they use satellites to map bird migration routes, anticipate changes, etc. The below link mentions some of NASAs commitment to protect migratory animals, prevent invasive species etc. lol I totally believe migratory birds can routinely navigate thousands of miles (which, BTW, is an amazing thing) but am super skeptical of ANYTHING NASA says. Maybe NASA spends 90 percent of the time taking pictures/videos of migratory birds and spend the rest of the 10 percent faking ridiculous shuttle missions. Seems plausible to me
https://www.nasa.gov/emd/nrm-regulatory-drivers