8041

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sunrise and Sunset

« on: August 01, 2017, 06:15:45 PM »

So there are no observations or evidence for the numerous claims that have been made for this superior globe earth model with tons of supposed evidence behind it, and just excuses and challenges to "prove me wrong". I see.

There is obvious evidence that the direction of the sunset in the real world does not match the diagram of the FE map from the fabled WIKI in Merkava's post above.  Comment please.

I keep asking for these observations but none seem to exist. It seems really hard for you guys to find any. Does this supposed mountain of evidence exist? Is the plethora of evidence for things like this just a myth? Is Round Earth Theory really just based on assumption?

8042

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sunrise and Sunset

« on: August 01, 2017, 06:06:16 PM »

So there are no observations or evidence for the numerous claims that have been made for this superior globe earth model with tons of supposed evidence behind it, and just excuses and challenges to "prove me wrong". I see.

8043

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Moon

« on: August 01, 2017, 04:55:08 PM »

We will need a real world example of a very distant object turning with any significance to perspective.

Perspective in a 3D model may not be an appropriate example. Ie., is the perspective based on simple rules that perspective lines converge at a finite distance, or is it based on the the Ancient Greek continuous universe where perspective lines approach each other infinitely? Since we do not know what ruleset large scale perspective operates on in reality, due to lack of effort of the Ancient Greeks to study the maximums, any 3D model is currently invalid until such knowledge can be obtained.

8044

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Moon

« on: August 01, 2017, 02:59:28 PM »

Can you show us an example of where an receding object 3000 miles in height turned 45 degrees to its side?

You are basing your math on the theories of the Ancient Greeks, who never tested what happens to perspective at large scales.

There are many arguments on what could be happening on those scales. For instance, the increasing angle of the perspective lines into the horizon may max out at some point where the tilt of the object matches the angle of the perspective lines. We already know from observations that the higher a receding object is, the slower it turns as it travels into the distance. How slow does the turn get? Does it ever get so slow that the turn is imperceptible or that it stops turning at some scale?  These are all important unanswered questions. We need to know how that relationship scales upwards with increasing height and distance, which the Ancient Greeks have neglected to study.

Without real evidence for the maximums of perspective theory, we have no knowledge on this subject, and the argument you are making is an entirely theoretical one.

8045

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sunrise and Sunset

« on: August 01, 2017, 08:20:41 AM »

And... where are the real world observations to back up your assertions?

8046

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle

« on: August 01, 2017, 12:59:57 AM »

Come on, you can't even come up with elementary school testimonies?

8047

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sunrise and Sunset

« on: August 01, 2017, 12:45:05 AM »

Just post the MOUNTAINS of evidence we are being told that exists for this type of phenomena. Go get it and bring it here. Google. GO.

Are you suggesting that those people who use sunrise and sunset data from various sources find it to be incorrect?

We have zero data right now to say anything about it. How embarrassing for this millennia old model with mountains of evidence supposedly behind it.

Says the guy with no working map who doesn't know when or where the sun is rises or sets.  I've said it, I've linked and I've said it again.  The WIKI, YOUR WIKI, THIS WEBSITES WIKI, says equinox overhead noon sun is fact.  If you can't comprehend or except evidence you probably had a hand in posting, why bother showing you anything further?  Your not a serious opponent.

The wiki says that the sun is overhead at the equator on noon equinox day. Where does it say that the sun will set exactly due west from there?

8048

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sunrise and Sunset

« on: July 31, 2017, 08:36:35 PM »

Just post the MOUNTAINS of evidence we are being told that exists for this type of phenomena. Go get it and bring it here. Google. GO.

Are you suggesting that those people who use sunrise and sunset data from various sources find it to be incorrect?

We have zero data right now to say anything about it. How embarrassing for this millennia old model with mountains of evidence supposedly behind it.

8049

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle

« on: July 31, 2017, 08:07:24 PM »

So now you are claiming that there is not really a plethora of evidence, as we have been told, and that Round Earth Theory is actually based on the observations of elementary school students?

Can you at least post the observational reports of these elementary school students? That would at least be something. We continue to see nothing!

8050

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle

« on: July 31, 2017, 07:40:43 PM »

So there are no reports or sources whatsoever to affirm the predictions the Round Earth model makes and we have to do it ourselves? This strong model of yours seems like it should have something more than zero evidence for these sun predictions. We are told that there are MOUNTAINS of evidence. Why not simply go onto google and bring it here for us?

8051

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sunrise and Sunset

« on: July 31, 2017, 07:25:25 PM »

Just post the MOUNTAINS of evidence we are being told that exists for this type of phenomena. Go get it and bring it here. Google. GO.

8052

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle

« on: July 31, 2017, 07:19:37 PM »

No, I have not attempted to prove your claims for you.

Please link us to the observations that verify that website, rather than attempting to divert.

I can verify that NOAA has accurately predicted the sunrise and sunset times for my location every day since Thursday July 27 until sunrise today July 31, 2017. Their site agrees with the information provided by timeanddate. I will continue to look for a location that provides a good photograph of the sun at these times, but my location in a city makes things somewhat difficult.

How do we know that their predictions hold true at all? Is there a report of observations somewhere on that website which affirms the predictions?

How do we know that the model is actually still a Round Earth model and not one which has been modified over the years to meet observation?

You can't simply link to a calculator and declare it all to be true. None of this is transparent or substantive as an acceptable evidence.

8053

Flat Earth Community / Re: Distance Experiment Idea?

« on: July 31, 2017, 07:12:44 PM »

From our experience, its when the results do not agree with your model, you stop posting about it.

Yeah - that's been my experience here too.  As soon as I find evidence that contradicts the Flat Earth model - all of the FE'ers stop posting to that thread.

You guys don't post evidence. Just look at all of the requests for sun observation data you have been unable to provide, despite that we are being constantly told that such data is mountainous. Even in this thread the "evidence" that was posted was just a flight prediction, not a log, which was supposed to combat a map which does not exist. You guys aren't doing a very good job.

8054

Flat Earth Community / Re: Distance Experiment Idea?

« on: July 31, 2017, 06:55:18 PM »

From our experience, its when the results do not agree with your model, you stop posting about it.

8055

Flat Earth Community / Re: Distance Experiment Idea?

« on: July 31, 2017, 05:54:04 PM »

You just fell short of saying that you'd accept this as evidence.

Will you accept such a demonstration as "proof" - if you will, then I'll do the work.   If you won't, then it's a waste of my time.

* I pick four cities.
* I find widely published flight times and distances between them.
* I construct a quadrilateral from those distances.
* I calculate whether the diagonals "fit" to within a reasonable degree of error.

If they do, then I'd be forced to admit that the earth was flat.

If they do not - then you'd be forced to admit that it's not.

So...what's your answer - would you accept this methodology?

I would recommend flight logs from actual flights. Flight time predictions will vary and major airliners have reported that 25% of flights are delayed. Choose locations that do not use jetstreams. I look forward to your findings, as most of us here do not hold that the airlines are involved in any sort of conspiracy.

Acceptance will depend on how thorough and transparent your investigation is. Some may have questions. I would suggest providing links to all sources and showing all math.

Arrival and departure times for many flights are available on line, have you tried using those as a starting point to your research?

Your claim, your research. I am only responsible for my own claims.

It would help my research if you were able to see how observations at your location compare to those on dateandtime.  Would others please also help.

We are talking about distances and flight times here. Please stay on topic.

8056

Flat Earth Community / Re: Distance Experiment Idea?

« on: July 31, 2017, 05:46:37 PM »

You just fell short of saying that you'd accept this as evidence.

Will you accept such a demonstration as "proof" - if you will, then I'll do the work.   If you won't, then it's a waste of my time.

* I pick four cities.
* I find widely published flight times and distances between them.
* I construct a quadrilateral from those distances.
* I calculate whether the diagonals "fit" to within a reasonable degree of error.

If they do, then I'd be forced to admit that the earth was flat.

If they do not - then you'd be forced to admit that it's not.

So...what's your answer - would you accept this methodology?

I would recommend flight logs from actual flights. Flight time predictions will vary and major airliners have reported that 25% of flights are delayed. Choose locations that do not use jetstreams. I look forward to your findings, as most of us here do not hold that the airlines are involved in any sort of conspiracy.

Acceptance will depend on how thorough and transparent your investigation is. Some may have questions. I would suggest providing links to all sources and showing all math.

Arrival and departure times for many flights are available on line, have you tried using those as a starting point to your research?

Your claim, your research. I am only responsible for my own claims.

8057

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle

« on: July 31, 2017, 05:45:16 PM »

No, I have not attempted to prove your claims for you.

Please link us to the observations that verify that website, rather than attempting to divert.

8058

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Sunrise and Sunset

« on: July 31, 2017, 05:41:42 PM »

It appears that there is not really mountains of evidence for these sorts of phenomena, as we are constantly told, and defenders must resort to the "I proved it myself when I was 13 years old" arguments.

8059

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle

« on: July 31, 2017, 05:33:08 PM »

Please link us to the observations that verify that website, rather than attempting to divert.

How about the fact that if you google for "timeanddate.com is incorrect" - the only hits you get are for things like which cities have daylight savings time - and mundane stuff like that.   Nobody seems to be complaining about any of the results about sunrises and sunsets and so forth.

If the underlying math behind that site was as badly wrong as FET predicts - there would be MOUNTAINS of complaints about errors of tens of minutes in sunrise and sunset times.  Yet I see almost none of those.    If you scroll down the search results far enough, you find an occasional complaint like that - but then if you read the place where the comment is made, it's always some user error like swapping latitude for longitude or forgetting a minus sign or something.

If timeanddate.com were that badly (and systematically) incorrect - there would MILLIONS of people complaining about it.

They don't - it clearly is a good match for the observations of people around the world where it's used.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/timeanddate.com shows that this is the roughly 700'th most visited site on the Internet - they have over 50 million visitors PER DAY.  If it didn't work well, either very few people would use it - or the complaint rates would be off the charts...and they're not.

Sure - you'll find a way to weasel out and reject this as evidence...I have popcorn ready.

How about providing links to observations that verify the predictions on that website, rather than attempting to divert?

8060

Flat Earth Community / Re: Distance Experiment Idea?

« on: July 31, 2017, 05:20:51 PM »

You just fell short of saying that you'd accept this as evidence.

Will you accept such a demonstration as "proof" - if you will, then I'll do the work.   If you won't, then it's a waste of my time.

* I pick four cities.
* I find widely published flight times and distances between them.
* I construct a quadrilateral from those distances.
* I calculate whether the diagonals "fit" to within a reasonable degree of error.

If they do, then I'd be forced to admit that the earth was flat.

If they do not - then you'd be forced to admit that it's not.

So...what's your answer - would you accept this methodology?

I would recommend flight logs from actual flights. Flight time predictions will vary and major airliners have reported that 25% of flights are delayed. Choose locations that do not use jetstreams. I look forward to your findings, as most of us here do not hold that the airlines are involved in any sort of conspiracy.

Acceptance will depend on how thorough and transparent your investigation is. Some may have questions. I would suggest providing links to all sources and showing all math.