8401

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Areas of daylight are impossible on a bipolar map...as well as on a unipolar map

« on: April 17, 2017, 09:09:53 PM »

If we stated that the sun was in this location at this place at this time, and that it disproved the globe earth model, we would be asked for evidence of that, too.

Why are you any different?

You seem to ask for proof or records of all places and all times based on direct observations. That is impossible to provide.

I am asking for exactly the same thing that would be asked of us if we made claims that the sun can be seen in certain places at certain times and locations which proved the Round Earth model wrong.

8402

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Areas of daylight are impossible on a bipolar map...as well as on a unipolar map

« on: April 17, 2017, 06:37:45 PM »

If we stated that the sun was in this location at this place at this time, and that it disproved the globe earth model, we would be asked for evidence of that. Why are you any different?

8403

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Areas of daylight are impossible on a bipolar map...as well as on a unipolar map

« on: April 17, 2017, 05:20:02 PM »

Why should we assume that the globe earth daylight patterns hold in reality when no one has been able to post observational records to corroborate them?

8404

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: April 17, 2017, 05:17:50 PM »

So you admit you don’t see what we’re saying (10th dan in missing the point), you won’t do the simple experiment that Gary and others have offered as you don’t know when the moon will be in the daytime sky, well the “children’s” moon is often in the sky,
 •  Look within a week or so of the date of full moon.
•  Before full moon, look for the daytime moon in the afternoon.
•  After full moon, look for the daytime moon in the morning
(waxing gibbous tonight 6th April so you are on, although being near the equinox the discrepancy won't be profound).

A full moon with the sun in the sky isn't supposed to ever happen in the Round Earth model. You want me to perform an experiment that cannot happen?

Why do I need to perform some kind of experiment to confirm someone else's argument? If you are making a claim that a certain experiment will confirm your argument, YOU need to do the experiment.

In the meantime answer Nirmala and my earlier point, does your model explain the problem you see with the angles?

I would say that the effect is a confirmation of the long-postulated Flat Earth mechanism which places the sun lower than it actually is over a Flat Earth. There are several mechanisms which have been proposed over the years. Mechanisms have been proposed ranging from an atmospheric effect, to the Electromagnetic Accelerator which bend light rays, to a perspective effect, and further analysis and consideration would need to be conducted to say which effect this observation most strongly supports. The video in the OP shows that the sun actually does appear lower than where the moon thinks it is. If this mechanism did not exist, the sun would at all times be above the surface of the earth and night and day could not exist.

I was curious as to whether "an atmospheric effect" could make the sun appear lower than it actually is, so I did some research on light refraction including the fast paced videos on this site: http://byjus.com/physics/why-do-stars-twinkle/

It turns out that given the position of the sun above the atmosphere in both the flat earth model and the round earth model, refraction will always make the sun appear higher than its actual position (unless the sun is directly overhead in which case it will have no effect at all). When light travels from an optically less dense medium to an optically more dense medium it is bent towards the normal (defined as a line perpendicular to the line forming the boundary between the two mediums). This is a long established and experimentally proven principle of the behavior of light.

If you draw out the position of the sun, atmosphere and an observer on earth, this bending is always in the direction that makes the sun appear higher in the sky. This does explain why in the round earth model, the sun appears above the horizon even after it has actually set, as again any refraction caused by the sunlight hitting the atmosphere will always make the sun appear higher than its actual position. This also rules out refraction as an explanation for why the sun sets at all in the flat earth model because if refraction is involved, it would actually make it less likely for the sun to appear to have set in a flat earth model.

So, refraction cannot be reasonably used as an explanation for what is observed in the original video.

You are assuming that there are no thicker mediums between us and the celestial bodies.

8405

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Areas of daylight are impossible on a bipolar map

« on: April 17, 2017, 02:33:00 PM »

There are no large scale records of sunrise and sunset across the world. You are assuming that daylight would reflect a globe earth when you make that circle, rather than basing the shape on observed reports of the sun.

This doesn't make Nirmala wrong, nor does it mean we do not know sunrise and sunset times.  Sunrise and sunset times are easily corroborated.  According to all the observers I know, there is no issue with sunrise and sunset times.

According to all the observers I know, they haven't looked at the sunrise and sunset times that happen at every point on earth throughout the year.

8406

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Areas of daylight are impossible on a bipolar map

« on: April 17, 2017, 05:30:51 AM »

There are no large scale records of sunrise and sunset across the world. You are assuming that daylight would reflect a globe earth when you make that circle, rather than basing the shape on observed reports of the sun.

8407

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: April 15, 2017, 05:25:15 PM »

Where can we see this effect in reality?

Anywhere there is a straight line slightly above (or below for that matter) that you can walk up close to and look left or right along it's length.

What are you going on about? We are talking about the pincushion effect in the video. When we pan a camera across a static object above us it does not appear to curve across the inside of a sphere.

8408

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: April 15, 2017, 04:58:02 PM »

What would happen in the view you created if my red line were there connecting the sun to the moon? It would bend!

You clearly are trying to hand wave whatever effect you applied, or was inadvertently applied on a preset filter, away. In your original video you even bring up the words "wide angle" and "Field of View" when you "zoom in".

The person in the video in the OP did not need to zoom into the moon and change his "wide angle" view of the moon to see that it was not lined up with the sun. Shame on you.

I found the problem here Tom.  What you haven't figured out, is that the viewing distance to the moon is quite short compared to the distance from the moon to the sun.  We are viewing it from that "up close" viewpoint that is used in the 3d model video Flatout made.

In Flatout's first video he clearly mentions changing the wide angle field of view when he zooms in. When did the man in the video in the op zoom in and change his wide angle view?

A more accurate action would be to simply take his camera near the moon and see if it lined up with the sun. Flatout does not do this, because he knows that doing so would be detrimental to his position.

Tom, there is no such "wide angle setting".  In any perspective view you increase the field of view from the eyes perspective by getting closer to the objects so the head has to be turned.  I did exactly what you say I should have done.  I moved under and closer to the moon. The video clearly shows that things are lined up.  We all know that.  Nobody is saying they don't.  What we are talking about is how one perceives them to not line up.   My video shows how objects that are lined up can appear to not line up when we don't have reference for depth.   

Your accusation of deceit is duly noted.

Flatout,

The sun and moon clearly appear to be curving across the inside of a sphere when you pan your camera across them, as admitted by garygreen in this thread.

Where can we see this effect in reality? The real sun and moon do not look like they are curving across a sphere when we take a video camera and pan it across them in the sky. This is suggestive of a pincushion camera effect, not a "celestial sphere". As the celestial sphere is described, the sun and moon would curve as they travel in their course across the sky -- not when they are static and a camera pans across them.

Kindly refrain from using deceiving words in your response.

Thank you,
Tom

8409

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: April 15, 2017, 04:23:07 PM »

just went out and did the string experiment for the first time.  works beautifully.

you should go out and do it this morning, tom.  if you're in the pacific time zone, then you should have a good view of both the sun and moon for the next 3-4 hours or so.

A planetarium is just a movie theater. They don't project the movies inside cubes because the corners are ugly.

what do you mean by "the corners are ugly"?

Corners are so ugly that they do not even allow them in regular movie theaters......oh wait......I have never seen a regular movie theater with a dome for a screen. Never mind.

Regular movie theaters don't project their movies into corners. I don't know what point you are making.

8410

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: April 15, 2017, 04:21:26 PM »

What would happen in the view you created if my red line were there connecting the sun to the moon? It would bend!

You clearly are trying to hand wave whatever effect you applied, or was inadvertently applied on a preset filter, away. In your original video you even bring up the words "wide angle" and "Field of View" when you "zoom in".

The person in the video in the OP did not need to zoom into the moon and change his "wide angle" view of the moon to see that it was not lined up with the sun. Shame on you.

I found the problem here Tom.  What you haven't figured out, is that the viewing distance to the moon is quite short compared to the distance from the moon to the sun.  We are viewing it from that "up close" viewpoint that is used in the 3d model video Flatout made.

In Flatout's first video he clearly mentions changing the wide angle field of view when he zooms in. When did the man in the video in the op zoom in and change his wide angle view?

A more accurate action would be to simply take his camera near the moon and see if it lined up with the sun. Flatout does not do this, because he knows that doing so would be detrimental to his position.

8411

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: April 15, 2017, 05:34:14 AM »

In the Muddy Colors blog link the observation this blogger makes in the sky is as so:

Accompanied with the following text you ignored:

"Stretch this image out left to right until it encompasses about 180° and you'll get the picture. You would have to turn your head to look from impending sunrise to setting moon:"

This is rather dishonest of you Tom.

Do you know how a panorama works? It's NOT a celestial sphere.

why do planetariums choose a spherical shape? why not project their images onto the inside of a cube or pyramid?

or, put another way: why is field of view measured in degrees? why do we use angles to describe that quantity?

A planetarium is just a movie theater. They don't project the movies inside cubes because the corners are ugly.

Field of view is measured in degrees because if you look behind you, you need to turn your body 180 degrees. That does not mean that the celestial bodies are painted on an invisible sphere of glass circling the earth.

8412

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: April 15, 2017, 01:56:35 AM »

Rushy is correct.

Google definition for 'chemical weapon':

"A chemical weapon (CW) is a specialized munition that uses chemicals formulated to inflict death or harm on humans."

It appears that on top of everything else the reporters are ignorant of the subject matter.

8413

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Areas of daylight are impossible on a bipolar map

« on: April 14, 2017, 10:25:24 PM »

If you guys want new research done, you can paypal your funds into my Paypal account at tombishopenterprises@gmail.com. My time isn't free. I expect to be paid handsomely for this.

8414

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: April 14, 2017, 06:14:26 PM »

that's literally exactly how reality appears to us.

why do planetariums choose a spherical shape? why not project their images onto the inside of a cube or pyramid?

or, put another way: why is field of view measured in degrees? why do we use angles to describe that quantity?

If this celestial sphere existed, the moon should curve against the inside of a sphere as it traveled across the sky, not when it is static and a camera is panning across it. The fact that the moon and sun seem to curve against an inverted sphere when the camera pans across it shows that there is something more going on in that video.

8415

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: April 14, 2017, 06:14:12 AM »

He is a public speaker for the president who made a comment that, while you can see his underlying meaning, is still vague enough to leave some doubt as to exactly what he meant.  Basically, he sucks at his job.

The job of reporters is to fairly and accurately report the news. This was neither fair or accurate.

If everyone here can see it, then they can see it, and by reporting this sensationalism anyway they are not properly doing their jobs.

8416

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: April 14, 2017, 06:11:15 AM »

When you pan to the left and right it looks like the moon and sun are warping around an inverted sphere.

exactly.

No, not exactly. When the man in the OP of this thread is pointing camera around at the moon and sun it does not look like they are curving on the inside of a sphere when he moves and pans his camera around to look at them. There is obviously some kind of camera effect here which is not reality.

8417

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: April 14, 2017, 05:55:23 AM »

Nothing is bent, Tom.  There is no fisheye effect turned on.

There is clearly something screwy with the FOV. When you pan to the left and right it looks like the moon and sun are warping around an inverted sphere.

Why is it that in your original video that you had to "zoom in" after this scene to get the desired effect rather than simply place your camera closer to the moon? Simply placing your camera next to the moon would be the simplest thing to do, and would more accurately represent the earth-sun-moon system.

Whatever you did there with the FOV is clearly unnatural. In the beforehand scene we clearly see that the moon is pointing at the sun, which I illustrated with a red line. If you take a magnifying glass to the moon in my image and follow the path to the sun it clearly makes a straight line.

We don't have zoom-in pincushion eyesight, or whatever inexplicable thing you did there to achieve your effect, so why are you trying to pass it off as reality?

Tom, zooming in Rhinoceros perspective view  is the same a positioning the camera closer.  I use the software professionally.  I've designed countless airplane parts for composite fabrication with it.  You don't know what you are talking about.

What would happen in the view you created if my red line were there connecting the sun to the moon? It would bend!

You clearly are trying to hand wave whatever effect you applied, or was inadvertently applied on a preset filter, away. In your original video you even bring up the words "wide angle" and "Field of View" when you "zoom in".

The person in the video in the OP did not need to zoom into the moon and change his "wide angle" view of the moon to see that it was not lined up with the sun. Shame on you.

8418

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: April 14, 2017, 05:27:41 AM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinction_without_a_difference

The criticism by the Social Justice Warriors on the news is entirely manufactured. Haven't you realized that yet?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/13/gop-rep-calls-for-spicers-resignation-after-hitler-comments.html

entirely manufactured.

The "criticism on both sides" is a result of inaccurate and slanted news reporting. This whole thing is clearly manufactured drama. If we look at the context it is pretty clear what Spicer is saying by any reasonable person.

8419

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: April 14, 2017, 04:53:01 AM »

What Spicer said is not a gaffe at all.

the criticism he's receiving from both sides of the isle indicates otherwise.

i feel bad for him precisely because i don't think he at all meant to diminish the holocaust, but it's pretty undeniable that it was an absurdly ignorant thing to say.

The criticism by the Social Justice Warriors on the news is entirely manufactured. Haven't you realized that yet?

Reporter: Hey Sean, what do you think about Syrian chemical warfare?

Spicer: Well, we didn't use chemical weapons in WWII, and even Hitler didn't use them.

What an outrage! Lets just ignore that Spicer is directly comparing America's use of chemical weapons in warfare to Hitler's use of them and point out that Hitler used gas in the execution of prisoners! Holocaust denier!

8420

Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up

« on: April 14, 2017, 04:00:35 AM »

Nothing is bent, Tom.  There is no fisheye effect turned on.

There is clearly something screwy with the FOV. When you pan to the left and right it looks like the moon and sun are warping around an inverted sphere.

Why is it that in your original video that you had to "zoom in" after this scene to get the desired effect rather than simply place your camera closer to the moon? Simply placing your camera next to the moon would be the simplest thing to do, and would more accurately represent the earth-sun-moon system.

Whatever you did there with the FOV is clearly unnatural. In the beforehand scene we clearly see that the moon is pointing at the sun, which I illustrated with a red line. If you take a magnifying glass to the moon in my image and follow the path to the sun it clearly makes a straight line.

We don't have zoom-in pincushion eyesight, or whatever inexplicable thing you did there to achieve your effect, so why are you trying to pass it off as reality?