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Messages - Tumeni

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1241
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 20, 2020, 03:29:23 PM »
The video you just showed would have the moon rising in the west and setting in the east. Do you have a video that the moon would rise in the east and set in the west while the shadow goes from west to east.

See my diagram above.

All the speeds and other figures are discussed at length in the other thread referred to above.

1242
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 19, 2020, 11:46:36 AM »
I’m still waiting for NASA to explain why the 2017 solar eclipse started on the west coast  and 4 hours later ended on the east coast. Even though Sun and Moon rises in the East and sets in the West. The only answer I could find from NASA was that the moon travels around the earth twice as fast as the earth spins  ???

You need to consider the speed and behaviour of the Moon's shadow, not the Moon. The core point is that the Moon moves in a circle around the Earth's centre  completing that circle slower than a single Earth rotation, but the shadow does not move like this.

Think about how the shadow is cast by the Sun, and what its behaviour will be as the Moon moves in a circle.

Like this


1243
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Appearance of the moon face
« on: February 19, 2020, 09:43:50 AM »
I have my doubts that the big world model and layout will be solved with this generation of FE. The Zetetic societies have been arguing over Monopole vs Bi-Polar vs Other models since at least the early 1900's. What is possible, what to trust, all valid and endless questions.

Every generation of FE seems to have contributed something towards Flat Earth Theory. Our main contribution will likely be the celestial model. With correct basics to the celestial model it might even be possible to derive the world model, independent of arguments about jet streams, routes, Antarctic travel restrictions, and such. An important milestone which unlocks the rest.

So you don't really know, is that what you're saying?

1244
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Appearance of the moon face
« on: February 19, 2020, 09:42:41 AM »
From the article:

Recent studies carried out by international teams of astronomers are reveling that the Universe may not have the size we currently attribute to it. At this point, it is difficult to say whether it's actually smaller or bigger than existing mathematical calculations show.

Sounds like they are saying that they don't really know to me. I trust Professor Barmby and this article over a comment on an internet forum who claims that it is known.

"Difficult to say" = Lack of knowledge

I fail to see where you have pointed out in the article where they do claim to know. Professor Barmby makes a fairly direct statement about their problems and the lack of confidence. Arguing that there is other knowledge elsewhere that proves it, without demonstration, is a very weak argument. Arguing that there is a quote which says that the current size might not be wrong, is also a very weak argument. Professor Barmby says directly that they don't know. Why should we trust you over direct statements from an authority on this matter?

No, Tom. You need to read the direct statements the other poster added as well as the ones you picked.

We know from measurements thus far the size of the universe to a degree of precision. What the quoted scientist is saying is there is a margin of error, commensurate with the measuring methods used, and their degree of precision, and that what she really wants is to refine the measures to a greater degree of precision.

Analogy;

If I say that it's exactly 250 miles from Edinburgh to London, according to the odometer on my car, but a surveyor has determined it as 249.8, does that make me wrong, or correct within reasonable bounds of error given the equipment I used?
 

1245
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 19, 2020, 09:16:30 AM »
I’m still waiting for NASA to explain why the 2017 solar eclipse started on the west coast  and 4 hours later ended on the east coast. Even though Sun and Moon rises in the East and sets in the West. The only answer I could find from NASA was that the moon travels around the earth twice as fast as the earth spins  ???

You need to consider the speed and behaviour of the Moon's shadow, not the Moon. The core point is that the Moon moves in a circle around the Earth's centre  completing that circle slower than a single Earth rotation, but the shadow does not move like this.

Think about how the shadow is cast by the Sun, and what its behaviour will be as the Moon moves in a circle.


1246
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 11:53:06 PM »
If it is midnight for the observer then I don't see how the observer can see something on the day side of the Earth.

1 By virtue of the fact that the Moon is approx 70 degrees through the first quarter of its cycle, so only 20 degrees away from being AT the border between day and night side;
2 By virtue of the Moon having passed an ascending node, placing it above the plane of the Earth and Sun;
3 By virtue of the axial tilt of the Earth pointing toward the Sun (but not directly at it);
4 By virtue of the observation position, already at 52 degrees North, being moved further toward the Sun by the axial tilt
5 By virtue of the fact that midnight is not exactly at the midpoint between sunset and sunrise, placing it closer to the Moon's side of the Earth

All illustrated in the 3D models labelled above. Let me know when you've examined all of them.

All that your solar midnight argument can change is No. 5, Tom - which still leaves four of them

1247
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 11:33:47 PM »
I've already shown you why it doesn't work at Solar Midnight.

Yet this is the first mention you've made of Solar Midnight. Why didn't you specify that's what you thought you were proving earlier? And in which post do you think you proved it?


As you are conceding that it's not possible at Solar Midnight ...

I don't think I actually said that. I think you said that.

The Mooncalc screen grab that you showed earlier, in relation to the blog. What time is shown on that?

What time was the observation? You tell us. You've read the blog

1248
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 11:05:04 PM »
Reply #47

Now tell us how it is possible that some people have seen the crescent moon at midnight: https://savageplane.wordpress.com/2019/02/13/impossible-heliocentric-moon-phases-explained/

Were you talking about solar midnight here, Tom? If so, why didn't you say so?



If the Earth shrunken to half it's size, with Blunham at the edge rather than the equator, the Moon will still be below the horizon.

but ...

I've examined your argument. You are now drifting to a "not exactly solar midnight" argument, apparently conceding that my argument was correct. Solar Midnight often occurs within an hour of UTC midnight. Find out when Solar Midnight occurs and you will find that the Moon is above the horizon on that night, at that time, for that location.

1249
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 10:59:56 PM »
I've examined your argument. You are now drifting to a "not exactly solar midnight" argument, apparently conceding that my argument was correct. Solar Midnight often occurs within an hour of UTC midnight. Find out when Solar Midnight occurs and you will find that the Moon is above the horizon on that night, at that time, for that location.

Have not drifted at all. Right from the start, I outlined that sunset and sunrise times indicate where and when Blunham crossed the terminator, and the differences in those times tell you where it was at midnight on the clock. Midnight on the clock places it closer to the Moon, on the side of the Earth facing the Moon. 

You need to show everyone watching here what difference would be made to the observation by observing at either solar midnight, or at midnight on the clock. You need to define what difference it makes. You introduced the topic first. You go first. You also need to show exactly when the observer observed.   

1250
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 10:19:52 PM »
If it is midnight for the observer then I don't see how the observer can see something on the day side of the Earth.

1 By virtue of the fact that the Moon is approx 70 degrees through the first quarter of its cycle, so only 20 degrees away from being AT the border between day and night side;
2 By virtue of the Moon having passed an ascending node, placing it above the plane of the Earth and Sun;
3 By virtue of the axial tilt of the Earth pointing toward the Sun (but not directly at it);
4 By virtue of the observation position, already at 52 degrees North, being moved further toward the Sun by the axial tilt
5 By virtue of the fact that midnight is not exactly at the midpoint between sunset and sunrise, placing it closer to the Moon's side of the Earth

All illustrated in the 3D models labelled above. Let me know when you've examined all of them.

1251
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 09:51:57 PM »
If it is midnight for the observer then I don't see how the observer can see something on the day side of the Earth.

Showed you how, with a series of 3D models. Have you looked at them at all?

Once again, midnight does not occur at the farthest point on Earth from the Sun, for an observer at 52 degrees North.

The combination of their latitude, along with the Earth's axial tilt, toward the left side of the sun, allows them a position with a clear view toward the Moon in the latter part of its first quarter of orbit.

How is it that so much of this fits perfectly consistently with the standard globe model, but you still deny it?

When viewed from above, with some more labels for you;



When viewed from the side of the Earth opposite the Sun; 


1252
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 08:48:25 PM »
Take your image, flip it left to right, move the origin point slightly left, and you have exactly the same as my graphic, just viewed obliquely from the opposite hemisphere as opposed to my top-down view. 

Don't you see it?

Like this;



and here's my original with the zero to 90 angle indicated.



Don't you see it?

1253
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 06:49:58 PM »
This is what you posted:

img snipped

This is how we see on an RE:



Our range of vision is a plane resting on a sphere. Your lines assume that the Earth is flat, and cut through a Round Earth.

No, they do not. How do you conclude that they do?

Look at all the posts which followed. The position of the orange dot is where Blunham was, and there's nothing between there and the moon.

We're only concerned with the u-axis. Can the observer at Blunham see the moon along this axis? Don't care what he sees vertically above, or at 90 degrees from the sight line to the moon.

1254
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: February 18, 2020, 06:35:18 PM »
Apologies for all-caps, copy/pasted from a YouTube transcript


EVEN IF YOU SET ASIDE HIM SPENDING A THIRD OF ALL OF THE DAYS OF HIS PRESIDENCY AT PROPERTIES OWNED BY HIS BUSINESS WHILE HIS COMPANY SAYS, "OH, NO, WE’RE NOT PROFITING FROM THAT. THE SECRET SERVICE STAYS HERE FOR FREE." ... BUT IT TURNS OUT HIS BUSINESS HAS BEEN CHARGING THE U.S. GOVERNMENT RACK RATE, FULL RACK RATE FOR SECRET SERVICE ROOMS. THEY HAVE BEEN MAKING A MINT ON IT ALL THIS TIME AND JUST BEEN FLAT-OUT LYING ABOUT IT.

EVEN IF YOU SET ASIDE THE PETTY, RANK CORRUPTION AND SELF-DEALING OF HIS TIME IN OFFICE, LEAVING EVEN THAT ASIDE, ANY TIME ANYBODY HAS BEEN ABLE TO FOLLOW ANY OF THE MONEY AROUND HIM, IT IS A DUMPSTER FIRE, AND SOMEONE OFTEN GOES TO JAIL.

1255
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: February 18, 2020, 06:04:41 PM »
In 4 years there are 1461 days, so even if he doesn’t go to play golf until the election, he’s STILL averaging at least one day of golf every 6 days of his presidency.

Trump’s golf hobby has now cost Americans an estimated $115 million in travel and security expenses ― the equivalent of 287 years of the presidential salary he frequently boasts about not taking.

Of that amount, many hundreds of thousands ― perhaps millions ― of dollars have gone into his own cash registers, as Secret Service agents, White House staff and other administration officials stay and eat at his hotels and golf courses.


1256
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 04:43:23 PM »
If this were a physical globe

I've shown multiple examples above using a physical globe, Tom. Please advise when you have digested all of them

and if we took a plane, and held it up to the globe, would is be possible to get the horizon in the correct positions for what is supposed to be midnight for the observer?

We don't need a plane, all we need is a pointer, for all we are considering is "Can the observer in Blunham see the Moon?" - a single sightline - so the simple cocktail stick pointer on my physical globe will suffice.

Tilting the plane to the West would mess up the opposite side.

Why would we need to tilt it, and what would be messed up? Why does it matter what happens on "the opposite side". Which IS the opposite side, anyway? Opposite what?

If it is midnight, the midway point should intersect the middle of the plane.


The "midway point" of what? I've already shown that midnight on the clock did NOT correspond to the halfway point between dusk and dawn, and that Blunham would only have been 3/8ths, less than half, of the way through its night.

The only allowance for tilting should be a North-South tilt due to the tilt of the Earth.

The axial tilt. I allowed for that

Once again you are merely drawing lines through the Earth's curvature, without regard to what the observer should be able to see.

I'm not drawing them "through" anything. I've shown the Moon was above the Sun/Earth plane, and that Blunham was in the hemisphere that faces the Moon, allowing a clear sightline.

Put a plane on the surface of the earth to represent the observer's field of vision, rather than drawing arbitrary lines through the earth.

We're not concerned with the observer's L/R up/down field of vision, only the specific sightline to the Moon. So a pointer will suffice.

1257
Flat Earth Community / Re: More fake moon landing proof.
« on: February 18, 2020, 04:27:23 PM »
All scientists agree with this.

Sorry, not a credible answer. Nobody will believe you have spoken with them all.

1258
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 03:58:19 PM »
Please confirm when you have read up to and including #70, Tom.

1259
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 03:10:45 PM »
Also

http://astropixels.com/ephemeris/moon/moonnodes2001.html

May 09  18:50 ascending node
May 22  19:12 descending

On May 10, the Moon would have been ABOVE the Sun/Earth orbital plane, thus making it even easier to see from the
Northern Hemisphere.

1260
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Moon and Stars
« on: February 18, 2020, 01:57:24 PM »
Tunemi, you just drew a line on the Earth and claimed that the observer could see the Moon behind the Earth's curvature over there. What is the difference between doing that and drawing a line over the North Pole and claiming that the observer can see the Moon on the opposite side of the Earth?

You need to figure out if the observer can actually see behind the Earth's curvature, not draw a line.

The argument you are putting fourth appears to be insufficient. We can also see that your observer's night horizon at Midnight is taking up more than a straight line 180 degree range from a top down view of that city, meaning that you are once again claiming that nights are longer after the March Equinox.

There is no curvature to be looked over.

The vertical and horizontal yellows indicate the centre point of the globe, and the position of the UK is to the left of the vertical. All the "curvature" will therefore be out of the way of a direct sightline. Simple geometry, Tom.

EDIT to include image
EDIT 2 for avoidance of doubt, the viewpoint here is looking at the night side of the Earth, along the Sun/Earth orbital plane, so the Sun would be directly behind the Earth illustrated here, along the centre of the horizontal and vertical yellow lines.



The grey dotted line showing the path of Blunham through the night is shorter than the blue one, which shows its progress through the day, so - shorter night, longer day. I have no idea how you are reaching your conclusion, perhaps you should rephrase this

"observer's night horizon at Midnight is taking up more than a straight line 180 degree range from a top down view of that city".

??? Clarify, please

Blunham's sunset before midnight was at 20.42, sunrise at 05.16 the following day. So at midnight, Blunham was closer to sunset than sunrise, so further to the left than the centre point indicated in yellow. Sunset was 3h20 short of midnight, with sunrise 5h16m after it. Midnight was not at the exact opposite of the sun

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