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Messages - Tumeni

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Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Black Holes and Paper Cuts
« on: April 07, 2020, 05:34:12 PM »
(Tumeni said) - Really? Geometry doesn't apply to 3D objects that I can handle or touch?

No. Geometry is strictly theoretical, it deals with abstracts in an idealized environment. If you're talking about 3-D objects you can handle and touch, you might want to look more at physics.

"In real life, geometry has a lot of practical uses, from the most basic to the most advanced phenomena in life. Even the very basic concept of area can be a huge factor in how you do your daily business. For example, space is a huge issue when planning various construction projects. For instance, the size or area of a specific appliance or tool can greatly affect how it will fit in to your home or workplace, and can affect how the other parts of your home would fit around it. This is why it is essential to take account of areas, both of your space, and the item that you are about to integrate in there. In addition, geometry plays a role in basic engineering projects. For example, using the concept of perimeter, you can compute the amount of material (ex.: paint, fencing material, etc) that you need to use for your project. Also, designing professions such as interior design and architecture uses 3 dimensional figures. A thorough knowledge of geometry is going to help them a lot in determining the proper style (and more importantly, optimize its function) of a specific house, building, or vehicle. Those are some of the more basic uses of geometry, but it doesn't end there. "

... reducing a real world situation to a strictly geometrical one isn't going to guarantee you an accurate model of anything.

Why not? Because you say so?

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 07, 2020, 04:55:51 PM »
How sad is it that people are swayed by “can speak coherently”?

It wouldn't be worthy of mention if Trump, Bloomberg and (possibly) Biden could manage it. Yes, it is sad that someone with such a poor level of discourse as Trump has attained this position.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 07, 2020, 11:54:51 AM »
Yes, we have a couple senile old men competing for the highest office in the land, it is indeed a watershed moment in our democracy's history.

Watched Bernie Sanders on Bill Maher's show last night. Looking straight at the camera, he went through all his talking points without hesitation, without any apparent teleprompter or script, didn't fluff his words, mispronounce anything or use made-up words, and generally came across as someone who wants to do good for the American people, and has the brainpower to do so.

He'd get my vote if I had one.

The shape of the Earth does change in pretty much every supposed picture of it

Examples and citations, please.

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Black Holes and Paper Cuts
« on: April 07, 2020, 11:44:41 AM »
It's only geometry when you aren't talking about real-world situations.

Really? Geometry doesn't apply to 3D objects that I can handle or touch?

Why? Because you say so?

Even then, it's geometry under certain assumptions. Euclidean space is the obvious one ... you have to account for other options.

Like what?

.... I'll humour you.

Has anyone found any image supposedly taken from space that is not consistent with the mainstream FE model?

There seems to be a number of "mainstream FE models", for many flat-earthers, here and elsewhere, respond to queries with something along the lines of  " .. but it depends on which model you consider", but .... I'll humour you.

Yes. Multiple images.

And videos. And films. And data.

You need to have the image, yes...
But all of them have been altered...
Easily demonstrable...
Just gather all of the images released by NASA of the supposed globe earth and compare them.
None of them depict the same thing.

Different cameras, different lenses, different distances, different position of observing craft, etc. etc.

Why would you expect them all to be the same?

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Black Holes and Paper Cuts
« on: April 06, 2020, 02:03:25 PM »
You are refusing to consider any possibility beyond RET and you think that they are wrong just because they're different. That's not scientific. That's the opposite of science, and that's half of why the modern scientific community is fundamentally flawed, they all think like you.

It's simple geometry of rectangles (two pairs of parallel sides, all perpendicular to each other) and pythagorean theory of right-angle triangles (square of hypotenuse = sum of squares of other sides). Nothing to do with RET. These would apply regardless of whether Earth flat or not flat.

You've given no good reason for these to be non-applicable to the example I cited.

As a flat earther, I hold the images were altered to depict a globe.

How would this be done, with an original negative or transparency film?

Surely if Random House had access to the originals, they would have noticed the originals were unaltered?

Every image of the earth issued by NASA is altered.

...even the ones that were on the front pages of newspapers in 1969 to 1972, when the Apollo missions took place?

What alterations do you assert were done, beyond cropping and filtering for colour correction?

I have, in another room, a copy of Full Moon, published by Random House a good few years ago. The foreword states, that for publication, the team were given access to the original negatives and transparencies for scanning into publication format. So these weren't actually "issued by NASA" ....

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Black Holes and Paper Cuts
« on: April 06, 2020, 10:04:35 AM »
Your hypothetical situation is completely reliant on the model on the world and physics that you've been taught, once you step outside those bounds you have evidence of nothing.

This is truly ridiculous.

You're refusing to discuss a simple geometry in open space, on the basis of "What if the normal rules of geometry and light didn't apply?"

If I'd shown you a chemical equation, your response would likely be "What if the normal rules of geometry and light didn't apply"
If I'd shown you a quadratic equation, your response would likely be "What if the normal rules of maths didn't apply"
If I'd suggested that 9+2 = 11, you'd likely say "What if we weren't using base 10 arithmetic"

Honestly, can't you see this is just goalpost-shifting on your part. Someone points out that the ball has gone in the goal, you say "What if the goalposts aren't really where you think they are?"

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 06, 2020, 09:43:18 AM »
Poor Joe Biden. This is clearly a senile old man that the party is trying to force into presidency.

Poor Trump. This is clearly a senile old man already IN the presidency.

"“We're holding thousands of Isis fighters right now - prisoners. And we're going to give them to, from where they came. The Europe (sic), certain countries in Europe, they got to take them back because we don't want to hold them,” "

“The members of our armed forcef (sic) I, and you understand that very well - the members of our armed forcer (sic) have always lived by the word of Douglas Magarth (sic): ‘In war, there is no substitute for victory’."

“Today, I'm also calling upon all 50 states to immediately waive all appliculble (sic) state taxes as well,” Mr Trump said regarding veterans, before moving onto praising a disabled veteran named Katherine, who he misnamed "Karen".

“Despite these obselels (sic), Karen is now pursuing a degree at the University of Nevada.”

"Referring to Mr Esper’s distinguished record in the US armed forces, Mr Trump said he was awarded “the bronze star and the combat infantroopen badge for his service”.

"Trump is telling NFL owners he wants the season to start on time. He is disregarding Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advice on wearing facemasks in public. And he is touting untested coronavirus cures live on national TV.

Think Trump University on steroids, only this time we all stand to be the victims.

When Dr Anthony Fauci says there is no evidence to back up Trump’s claims surrounding hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malaria drug, pay attention. The fact Jared Kushner is on the case is hardly reassuring. He’s the guy who thought firing James Comey was win-win politics and promised Middle East peace in our time.

While all this is going on, the Wisconsin Republican party is giving America a taste of the campaign to come in the fall. Right now, the Badger State GOP is fighting in the US supreme court efforts to extend mail-in voting for this Tuesday’s Democratic primary.

In other words, voters will be forced to choose between foregoing their rights and risking their lives. Democracy shouldn’t work that way.

Back in the day, Republicans looked upon absentee voting as a valuable adjunct, a key piece in the party’s election day arsenal. Not anymore. Instead it is a dreaded foe, a fact readily admitted by Trump on Fox & Friends this week. If the US were to adopt mail-in voting, said the president, “you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again”.

For good measure, Trump later declared from the White House: “I think a lot of people cheat with mail-in voting.”

For the record, Trump voted by mail in 2018. In March, the Palm Beach Post reported that he had requested a mail-in vote for the Florida Republican primary.

There is nothing like populism marinated in wholesale contempt for the populace. In case Trump and the Republicans forgot, “We the People” are the constitution’s first three words."



Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Black Holes and Paper Cuts
« on: April 05, 2020, 09:45:18 PM »
Tumeni asks - Do you agree that the flat plane of the sea, the two towers of the same height, and the sightline from top of one to the other form a perfect rectangle, with the sightline parallel to the surface of the sea?

Not inherently. You're assuming an awful lot there about the properties of space and light. Like I said, you're just bringing the RET model into FET and complaining that they aren't the same.

It's got nothing to do with RET. Base presumption is that the surface of the water is flat, and that the two towers are perpendicular to it.

Regardless of distance between, how can the geometry of the situation allow the sightline between the tops to be anything other than a straight line, parallel to the base level?

What properties do you think I'm making assumptions about?

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Clouds
« on: April 05, 2020, 12:55:36 PM »

Since industrial activity and air traffic have considerably slowed down due to the so-called “coronavirus”, the sky has suddenly turned blue again. The whole thing raises a number of issues about the formation of clouds, doesn’t it?

Depends on where you are in relation to the industrialised areas, doesn't it?

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 04, 2020, 10:55:41 PM »
Oh no, Trump fired some moron who protected a 'whistleblower' who was 'whistleblowing' about a non-issue.

Aren't there legal protections in place, in law, to protect the WB?

In my opinion, the man conspired to oust Trump and got himself ousted instead. It's a deserved firing. If the IG did his job correctly, he would have realized that what Trump did wasn't something that Congress needed to waste its time and money on, but instead purposefully misled people on the amount of evidence of wrongdoing available, and as a result, wasted large amounts of federal government resources.

Surely it's up to Congress to decide whether to use that time or money? They could have rejected the IG's findings, after all, if they thought there was more pressing business.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 04, 2020, 09:41:45 AM »
The US is deep into Orwell's world of newspeak;

"A reporter at the White House briefing asked Trump why Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, referred to “our stockpile” yesterday when asked about states struggling to get key medical supplies, especially ventilators, from the federal government. (Kushner had said: “The notion of the federal stockpile was it’s supposed to be our stockpile. It’s not supposed to be states’ stockpiles that they then use.”)

Trump just gave a very confusing response, saying: “You know what ‘our’ means? The United States of America. Our, our, and then we take that ‘our’ and we distribute it to the states.”

The reporter responded: “So why did he say it’s not supposed to be states’ stockpiles?”

Trump: “Because we need it for the government, we need it for the federal government. To keep for our country because the federal government needs it, too, not just the states. But out of that we choose oftentimes, as an example, we have almost 10,000 ventilators and we are ready to rock...we are going to bring them to various areas of the country that need them. But when he says ‘our’ he is talking about “our country” he is talking about the federal government. You should be ashamed of yourself...don’t make it sound just asked your question in a very nasty way.”

In fact, yesterday reporters quickly noted the stockpile is indeed meant as a resource for the states, as noted on the department of health and human services’ website.

“When state, local, tribal, and territorial responders request federal assistance to support their response efforts, the stockpile ensures that the right medicines and supplies get to those who need them most during an emergency,” the website read.

But this morning, that language had been removed from the HHS website. “The Strategic National Stockpile’s role is to supplement state and local supplies during public health emergencies,” the website now says. “Many states have products stockpiled, as well.”"

Don't like the DHHS policy? Change the website to make it look as though it was never policy....

When will they start photoshopping non-believers out of photos?

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 04, 2020, 09:17:19 AM »
Man, that article was very biased.

How about this one? Biased or factual/realistic?

Guardian also reports that Congressman Adam Schiff drafted a bill to establish a commission to probe the coronavirus response. The Democratic lawmaker said the commission would seek to gather lessons for future crises.

Trump then dismissed the idea of a commission yesterday as a “witch-hunt”.

Sheesh, it's almost like he WANTS Americans to get sick and die. Dismantled the Pandemic Response team that was specifically set up to deal with stuff like this, now doesn't want to have anyone look into how lessons could be learned to help in the future.

Meanwhile, rumour has it he's playing golf at one of his clubs this weekend.


"If Kushner weren’t married to the boss’s daughter he would not be anywhere near the Oval Office. But Trump treats the presidency like a family business, and we know how that has ended before: a passel of bankruptcies and a pile of debt."

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 03, 2020, 05:26:25 PM »
Man, that article was very biased.

As long as it's not factually incorrect ...

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« on: April 03, 2020, 09:48:58 AM »

Remember when Obama refused aid to the states that weren't nice to him? Nobody does.

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