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Messages - Tumeni

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1
Flat Earth Community / Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« on: June 23, 2019, 02:43:35 PM »
It's sunset time for me.But the shadows of the eastern clouds are all below. Why?

Depends on where you are, surely? Are you on high ground? At a coast?

2
Flat Earth Community / Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« on: June 23, 2019, 09:49:46 AM »
Here's the thing:
If the surface of the earth were a sphere, sunrise and sunset would be the rise and fall of the sun from the horizon in view.
So at sunrise or sunset, when a mountain is above the horizon, do the shadows of the mountains have a chance to be cast on some of the clouds behind them that are higher than the mountains?

Tumeni says - Yes, you can find pictures of this all over the internut


Because mountains are higher than the horizon, and the sun is below the horizon, this is likely to happen if the surface of the earth is really a sphere.

It does. People have photographed it.

Similar instance occurs when you, the observer, are in darkness, and you see a satellite that is still in sunlight against your night sky...

3
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 19, 2019, 01:17:07 PM »
People who think the earth or sea is a sphere tell me this:Sea lines-horizon are arcs with very small radians-curvature.
but,If what they say is true,
I should like to know, from the point of view of a man in the middle of the sea, how, in the case of radians-curvature, the sea lines in all directions close on the spherical surface of the sea?
If this "arc" could be closed, the left and right ends of the sea line should have a pronounced twist at any observer's Angle, because the closed sea line looks like a lying circle that is an ellipse, and the two ends of the ellipse look like this.Isn't it?
I can only imagine this happening when the sea is flat, the sea is straight, and the distant object looks smaller.I really can't imagine how this could have happened if the sea was a sphere and the sea was curved.
If anyone knows, please draw a picture to explain it, although I don't think anyone knows.
By the way,I have read in Buddhist texts that the volcano is because there are six other SUNS at the bottom of the sea.
I'm sure not many people have even heard of it.So I'm just paraphrasing it.

This is post #1. The quote doesn't show it, but

"« Last Edit: Today at 11:07:16 AM by proponent »"

Proponent, if you're going to, after four pages, go back and CHANGE THE FIRST POST, then you should MAKE IT CLEAR what you have changed...

4
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 19, 2019, 01:06:53 PM »
The horizon would be a circle even if the earth were flat. Assuming visibility distance is consistent and nothing obscures your view, the horizon would be the limit of visibility.

(Tumeni adds, for clarity - that's the limit of visibilty OF THE SURFACE. Objects above the surface can be visible above the horizon)

If the distance you can see is the same in all directions then that's a circle, isn't it? The difference on a flat earth is there's no reason you'd get a sharp horizon line. The earth would simply fade out as it does on a foggy day when visibility is less than the distance to the horizon. I can't think of any reason there would be a sharp horizon line a few miles from your position, what stops you seeing further?

If it's not blocked, you can see far away, like the moon. But the horizon is a line formed by the surface of the earth from any direction, shrinking in the distance to a point where it is hard to see.

Tumeni says - only if weather or atmospherics gets in the way. Otherwise the horizon is NOT "hard to see"

Distant objects appear smaller and the surface of the earth is an infinite plane, which is the reason for the horizon rather than visibility. It is not formed by air visibility, so it has nothing to do with roundness. It is not a circle as I have proved in previous replies to others. Because both the front and the back horizon exist at the same time it turns out that they are not connected and closed into a finite size pattern. The answer is that they don't connect and close to a finite size graph, they form an infinite size plane.

Disagree, three or four times over.

5
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 19, 2019, 10:41:55 AM »
Spherical Cap - look from outwith the Earth, and you see the solid line, but not the dotted.



This view is from a point above the plane of the base of the cap. Move further up to see the dotted line.

Your observer, in the middle of the horizon line, is at the top of line h, isn't he?

6
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 19, 2019, 10:24:43 AM »
I THINK "sea line" means horizon. The line between the ocean and the sky. Is that correct?

correct

My best guess is that "radian" means curve. Like when you say, "it's a small radian," you mean "it isn't perfectly straight." Is that right?

right

If I may attempt to rephrase your question based on my best guesses about what you mean... please tell me is this what you are trying to ask?

If I look out over the ocean, the horizon is a perfectly straight line. The horizon is flat and level. The REs tell me that the horizon is slightly curved, but it looks very flat to me. If it WERE curved, that would mean the edges are slightly lower than the middle. If so, then as I turn in a circle, the horizon must dip lower in the back and raise up again as I come all the way around. It doesn't do that. I will explain this by making a panoramic photo. Look North at the horizon and take a photo. Now turn East 10 degrees and take another. Go all the way around taking photos every 10 degrees. Now print those photos out and try to line them up. If the horizon were truly curved, we could not line those photos up along a straight line - it would have to curve.

How's that? Is that what you're trying to talk about?

What I'm saying is that they can't be connected in a circle


Tumeni asks -  WHY NOT?


The classic example of this is an orange slice. Imagine an ant standing on an orange. The ant cannot see all the way around the orange. Let's say the ant can see 1 cm in front of him on the orange - because the orange is curved. He can also see 1 cm to the right, 1 cm to the left, and 1 cm behind. Draw a circle on the orange 1 cm in radius (2 cm diameter) with the ant at the center. This line you just drew is the ant's horizon. Now slice the orange right through the line you drew. That slice you just made is everything the ant can see. Look at that shape from different angles to understand exactly what we're talking about.

Is that what we're talking about?

You don't understand what I'm saying, so you're giving the wrong example

Tumeni says - what is the RIGHT example, then?

Please try to understand the following words. If the horizon is a circle, if it just looks like a straight line, then one cannot see a straight line in front and a straight line in the back, and they are not yet connected to one straight line, because they are a whole, and they intersect.  Then the horizon is not a circle, and indeed it can only be a straight line in any direction, proving that the surface of the sea or the ground between the horizons is a plane, not a sphere.

Simple geometry.

Look at it from some distance above the observer on the surface, the observer's horizon will be a circle around him. Look at it from outside his viewpoint, it will look like a chord across a circle, where the chord is the base of the spherical cap. Move above this point (which is level with the base of the cap), and it will look like a half ellipse (you won't see the half on the far side.

See my diagram above for the Spherical Cap, and also see related Spherical Segment, and Chord of a Circle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_segment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_(geometry)


7
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 19, 2019, 10:07:43 AM »
Proponent, can I suggest for an experiment that you take a few of your significant points above, and paste them into an online translator in your native language, and use that to convert it to English.

Then post the translator's English output here. 

This may result in a clearer statement than you posting in what you think is correct English, and we may understand you better, and make better progress in determining what puzzles you.

8
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 19, 2019, 10:03:27 AM »
proponent, do you have access to youtube? Perhaps I could make you a video?
I can't watch youtube, thank you, but I just told you why the hula hoop example doesn't fit on the horizon.If you still don't understand, please tell me what you don't understand and I will try my best to explain it to you.

Are you in Jail? Why can't you watch YouTube? Perhaps a country that prevents it? No wonder we're having such a difficult time communicating. 

>>>> a country,yes


You didn't tell us why the hula hoop example doesn't fit the horizon. You simply said a whole bunch of words in various font colors that literally make no sense. Now English may not be your first language and you speak it far better than I could speak what I could imagine to be your first language, but for what it's worth, you are speaking gibberish.

>>> no,not first language.

So you think the earth is flat. Not a globe. You look around at sea and see just a horizontal horizon line in all directions. A horizontal horizon line in all directions means to you, somehow, that you're not standing on a ball shaped earth because the horizontal horizon line around you would have to be a circle. And that just can't be. Why?

Because a circle is a finite size and a closed graph, a finite size and a closed graph means that if the front and back of the horizon are straight lines, they overlap, so that the horizon doesn't appear in both directions at the same time.If the horizon is not straight and has a small curvature there will be a significant curvature on the left and right sides of the horizon.

So this proves that the horizon is not a circle flattened to look like a straight line.Because they don't overlap in a line, and they don't have curvature on either side.

Let me add.The horizon doesn't just appear in front of you, it's also behind you, at the same time.

If you want to insert answers into a quote, you need to use the colours, and possibly other markers such as line breaks to mark them out.

I've corrected it for you above, for clarity.

9
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 19, 2019, 09:22:42 AM »
I can't watch youtube

Can't watch YT, can't use a simple drawing program to make an illustration, and English not your first language.

Boy, this IS going well. Nobody can understand you, so now you're posting multi-coloured replies, since you've seen me use it in quoted replies to distinguish my text from the quote.

Honestly, colouring-in is NOT making your point any better than plain black text did on page 1.

Shall we move on to parchment and quill pens?

10
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 18, 2019, 01:15:36 PM »
I don't really want to know what the first picture you gave me was about.

Why the feck should I bother with you, then?

If you're going to wilfully ignore what others do to try to interact with you, then why are you here?

11
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 18, 2019, 12:50:47 PM »
In fact, I didn't look at your drawing, because it didn't help me to express it.

>>> What's the point, then, if you're not going to look at what I draw in order to find common ground?


I just quoted the ellipse in it to express what I wanted to say. I don't know what you mean by the green dot.

It represents where the observer would be in the middle of the ocean, looking out over a spherical cap. The ellipse represents the limit of his vision. Is this what you mean by "the sea line" ?

You can SEE the green dot in the image, can't you?

12
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 18, 2019, 12:48:22 PM »
I don't know English. Please forgive me.

OK.


I'm trying to explain to you that what you're saying, "the straight line case," is an incorrect example.
Because if the circle is straight in front and back, then the observer has to be at the same vertical height as the circle, so the front and back will merge into one line instead of two. But it's not going to happen.

The observer would never be at this point, since the observation point is outwith the circle.

13
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 18, 2019, 12:38:53 PM »


The observer is at the top, the green dot, and your ellipse is in purple.

Is this what you mean?

14
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 18, 2019, 12:34:45 PM »
Let me ask you this question, if you are really a wise person and not a fool.

Let me ask you this question.

Why are you being so effing rude and obnoxious, when all I'm trying to do is understand what you're talking about?





If you're going to write in English, but it's not your first or native language, then perhaps accept that you might not be expressing yourself very clearly.

15
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 18, 2019, 12:20:12 PM »
Yes, the observer is perpendicular to the center of the circle.And what I'm expressing is the observer's perspective.

If the observer is IN the circle, this cannot be the observer's perspective. We're looking at the circle/ellipse from the outside, surely?

You're looking at an eclipse because you're depicting a circle when viewed from slightly above the plane of the circle. If it was edge-on, it would be a straight line.

No?

16
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« on: June 18, 2019, 12:16:47 PM »
This thing doesn't look right. Especially around the 33-37 second mark. It is just too fast. And of course this is an incredibly stupid design for a robot that moves boxes. Why on earth would you make it look like an ostrich?

Now that I've watched the video...

So that the tail can independently move, to counterbalance the (varying) loads that are picked up at the head? Move the tail outward, the torque around the centre of gravity increases. Pull it in, it decreases. The whole idea being to keep the thing balanced.

It's what humans and animals naturally do, and it's clearly what they're trying to mimic, probably for the practical reason I stated above.

17
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: I wanted to ask people about this
« on: June 18, 2019, 12:09:06 PM »
I'm going to use this ellipse to explain it.Let this ellipse be the sea line that the observer sees from the position on the surface of the sea in the ocean.

So, you're portraying the observer as being in the centre of this ellipse, and you're depicting it from an external viewpoint?

18
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« on: June 18, 2019, 11:19:43 AM »
Plenty of job vacancies there, Thork.

You could always infiltrate them and make your name through the big reveal ....

https://www.linkedin.com/search/results/all/?keywords=boston%20dynamics&origin=GLOBAL_SEARCH_HEADER

19
Flat Earth Community / Re: REs netiquette
« on: June 18, 2019, 11:16:07 AM »
This is where people like you (and the even more problematic RE shitposters) differ from people like me. You guys do come here to complain about your view that someone is wrong on the Internet, actively seeking us out, and then you act indignant when we don't feed you. Quelle surprise.

... but you actively ASK the general public in. It's right there on the Home Page, under the forum heading.

20
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Is Boston Dynamics fake?
« on: June 18, 2019, 10:50:12 AM »
The robots are physical and plenty of people have seen them.
Have they though. I mean have they really?

Do you think the people in the video at #6 are real or CGI?

How about the terrier? Real dog, or CGI?


"I have never seen a 3rd party individual say "I saw this one robot from Boston Dynamics and it was like this""

Unless you routinely move in circles where robots are designed or built, why would you be likely to hear this?


"There is no anecdotal mention of their existence anywhere."

Come on, now. There's no way you have actually LOOKED "everywhere" ...

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