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11
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Last post by Action80 on December 07, 2023, 09:20:33 PM »
Jesus, you double down to claim it is only an internal combustion absent any exhaust resulting in movement.

…what? Please reread what was said.
Why does a ballerina speed up when they pull their arms in?
Do everyone a favor, okay?

Go peddle your nonsensical crapola elsewhere.

I am done with your dissimilar anologies.
12
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Last post by Action80 on December 07, 2023, 09:18:47 PM »
@Action. First of all respect to your nephew; serving his country in the military and then transferring those learned skills to the airline industry.  Similar career path to mine, though in the UK. 

Following up on Dr v-N, I wonder if you have actually discussed jet engine theory with your nephew, or whether you are just throwing in random relatives in the hope that it will lend your argument some kudos.  My sister is a nurse, but that wouldn't reinforce any argument I might make about Covid. 

And I don't like labouring a point, but you still haven't explained how the presence of a plume lends thrust to the jet/rocket.
Yes, I have and he understands that a pressurized environment must exist for a plume to form.

The plume is like any appendage and is what allows the rocket or jet to push off the atmoplane.

No defined exhaust (plume)... no movement.
13
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Last post by Realestfake on December 07, 2023, 09:18:24 PM »
Jesus, you double down to claim it is only an internal combustion absent any exhaust resulting in movement.

…what? Please reread what was said.
Why does a ballerina speed up when they pull their arms in?
14
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Last post by Action80 on December 07, 2023, 09:14:58 PM »
No concept of a force pair exists in your fake and false description.

Combustion takes place separately and distinctly from the exhaust process.

Your posts are nonsensical and reek of desperation.

Hold onto your folly.

Leave reality to the sane.

Explain in detail why it is “fake and false”. The rocket is being pushed against by an internal combustion (which results in gas being accelerated outwards). I really try to not debate with beginner-levels but I do want to help.
Jesus, you double down to claim it is only an internal combustion absent any exhaust resulting in movement.

Unbelievable!


I will spare you the rest here, because you are simply clueless.
”In the space vacuum the exhaust gases form a large free jet, called a plume, which can impinge on neighbouring surfaces.”
https://doi.org/10.1016/0376-0421(91)90008-R
No, a plume cannot form in an environment where there is no pressure.

You not agreeing what a “plume” is against the rest of the world is literally nobody’s problem but yours. Lol.
I agree what a plume is and have already stated as such.

Your LOL is simply you laughing at your own nonsense.

I am not the one with a problem, you are.
15
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Last post by DuncanDoenitz on December 07, 2023, 08:39:26 PM »
@Action. First of all respect to your nephew; serving his country in the military and then transferring those learned skills to the airline industry.  Similar career path to mine, though in the UK. 

Following up on Dr v-N, I wonder if you have actually discussed jet engine theory with your nephew, or whether you are just throwing in random relatives in the hope that it will lend your argument some kudos.  My sister is a nurse, but that wouldn't reinforce any argument I might make about Covid. 

And I don't like labouring a point, but you still haven't explained how the presence of a plume lends thrust to the jet/rocket. 
16
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Last post by Realestfake on December 07, 2023, 08:36:55 PM »
No concept of a force pair exists in your fake and false description.

Combustion takes place separately and distinctly from the exhaust process.

Your posts are nonsensical and reek of desperation.

Hold onto your folly.

Leave reality to the sane.

Explain in detail why it is “fake and false”. The rocket is being pushed against by an internal combustion (which results in gas being accelerated outwards). I really try to not debate with beginner-levels but I do want to help.


”In the space vacuum the exhaust gases form a large free jet, called a plume, which can impinge on neighbouring surfaces.”
https://doi.org/10.1016/0376-0421(91)90008-R
No, a plume cannot form in an environment where there is no pressure.

You not agreeing what a “plume” is against the rest of the world is literally nobody’s problem but yours. Lol.
17
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Last post by Action80 on December 07, 2023, 08:29:55 PM »
An astronaut floating in space fires a shotgun, a catapult launching a rock, a dude in a vacuum sits on a hand grenade and doesn't move when it goes off...
I see where the faker gets his nonsensical and fake analogies.
18
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Last post by Action80 on December 07, 2023, 08:26:30 PM »
No external pressure outside the rocket?

No plume.

No plume?

No movement.

The end.

If I throw a bowling ball while standing on a skateboard, did I move backwards because of air resistance?
Using an inappropriate analogy isn't going to help you.
I’m going to make this incredibly simple.
You want to use the “pushing off an atmosphere” idea.
Okay.
Imagine the inside of an engine. The explosive power of the combustion pushes against the inside of the engine opposite of the plume, moving the rocket. No part of that process required an atmosphere.
The rocket is pushing against something inside itself.
No concept of a force pair exists in your fake and false description.

Combustion takes place separately and distinctly from the exhaust process.

Your posts are nonsensical and reek of desperation.

Hold onto your folly.

Leave reality to the sane.
19
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Last post by Dr Van Nostrand on December 07, 2023, 08:24:00 PM »
Donutz is still asking how jets move when he is supposedly a former jet engine mechanic (by the way my nephew is currently employed by United Airlines, having served over 10 years as a former Air Force jet engine mechanic). Jets too, form a plume in the pressurized atmoplane, allowing them to move.

lol   so... Does your nephew agree with you that rockets only work within the confines of an atmosphere? Did he learn that is his Air Force training? You two could challenge everything we know about physics.

If I throw a bowling ball while standing on a skateboard, did I move backwards because of air resistance?

This was all thoroughly debated in another thread and every example was proposed. An astronaut floating in space fires a shotgun, a catapult launching a rock, a dude in a vacuum sits on a hand grenade and doesn't move when it goes off... Apparently, our understanding of physics is all part of some liberal hoax cabal or something. Action80 and his nephew are the only ones who know the truth. You'd think that with such awesome knowledge that they'd be rich and famous engineers making $250,000 USD a year.
20
Science & Alternative Science / Re: Do rockets push off the air?
« Last post by RonJ on December 07, 2023, 08:23:02 PM »
You put some rocket fuel inside a rocket and ignite the fuel to release a quantity of energy.  The fuel is transformed from a solid (or liquid) to a very hot expanding gas.  The gas is confined inside the rocket ignition chamber with only one way out.  Pressure builds up and the very hot gas exits thru the engine’s nozzle that helps to accelerate the gas.  The hot exiting gas’s mass will be equal to the mass of the fuel that was burned.  Now you have the mass(M) in the equation.  The hot gas exiting the rocket engine is traveling at a high speed so, since it was almost zero velocity at the start, has accelerated greatly while traveling through the nozzle.  Now you have the (A) acceleration part.  Since the force is equal to the mass times the acceleration, you have a force opposite the direction of the rockets exiting gas.  There’s no air mentioned in the equation anywhere. All that is needed is an accelerating mass.   


If anything, the surrounding air will only slow the rocket’s acceleration.  Any force produced by the air pushing the rocket up will be balanced out by the force of the air pushing back on the nose of the rocket.  If the surface of the earth was a vacuum the acceleration of the rocket would be greater, all things being equal.