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Offline Dither

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #100 on: July 08, 2017, 11:15:03 PM »
It is conceivable that this may have been the way life started, randomly and without intelligence.

I agree, it is conceivable in a Heliocentric model, not in a Geocentric model.

A Geocentric model implies intelligent design, the Heliocentric model is a whole bunch of hypothetical lies made by men whose agenda it is to deny that God exists. Its not science, its subterfuge, and this is why Creation Scientists will never get it right because they are using the same model that the Atheistic Scientists are using.
 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 11:17:58 PM by Dither »
A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on its shoes.

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #101 on: July 10, 2017, 08:33:31 PM »
14 The Truth About Transgenderism and your DNA



lol .... back to "no religion = peace" ..... it sounds to me that no truth (or "fluid truth") = chaos and confusion
I thought this was a great presentation from the Fuel Project ... just had to share ....... carry on :)

« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 08:50:37 PM by Boodidlie »
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception ... another angsty rant from that awful dadsnet thing

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #102 on: July 10, 2017, 09:13:35 PM »

You struggling with something Bo?

Want some help?
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

No one infers a god from the simple, from the known, from what is understood, but from the complex, the unknown, and the incomprehensible. Our ignorance is God; what we know is science. Robert Green Ingersoll

Screamer

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #103 on: July 11, 2017, 10:25:12 AM »
Before people start fighting me over the subject, I first want to say that actually I am a Christian and I go to church every Sunday and participate in many of the church's activities. However, I am really convinced that if we go back the moment humans were created on this earth, and take away every religion, there will be world peace... I don't know about you but I would really love to know your opinions.

This is complete and utter guff. No one has ever gone to war over religion. People always go to war over resources. Any war you care to mention, resources.

  • Ancient Greeks would dress up wars in Honour. Rescuing an abducted King's wife or avenging a slaughter. But bashing Troy from example is a good way to take out your largest trading rival.
  • Crusaders would fight for Christianity but they'd be looting the riches of the middle East. This is evidenced by the Pope ordering the 4th crusade to attack the Christian city of Zara.
  • Even the second world war was about resources. Churchill said long before Hilter invaded Poland "Germany shall have a war whether she wants one or not", and of course Hitler famously did not want a war with Britain. But it was dressed up as liberating Poland. Germany attacked Poland etc because it needed resources (food production to fuel its industrial empire) and Britain attacked Germany because German industry was dominating European trade taking their market share. Neither side gave a damn about the Jews.

The people who fight in wars are rarely the ones who profit from it, and so they must be told something that will inspire them to fight.

What is religion for? Well religion is one of the 3 pillars of civilisation. No civilisation has ever amounted to anything without a religion. The 3 pillars are ...
  • Sound money
  • Rule of law
  • Religion

You can't build a civilisation without all 3 and if you remove any of the three, you get the end of empire.

I'll focus on religion for this answer though. Religion is good for people. You either have a big religion or a big government. You can't have neither. Trey Gowdy does an excellent speech illustrating the correlation.


Goto 6 minutes and 17 seconds.

If you have a big government, you have few freedoms. Government will seek to maintain order by being pervasive and infiltrating every aspect of your life. And this will cost you a fortune in taxes as a big government has huge costs. But a religion creates order without government. Good religions all have an aspect of law in them. Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal etc and they also all share an omnipotent God and an after life. Both are important. When no one else is watching you, God is. And if you aren't caught committing crime by a man, there will be divine retribution when you die. And this creates order. A set of rules that everyone can live by that don't need massive state intervention. Big religion, small government.

Now the argument many atheists have (and they are wrong), is that they have their own morality and everyone else should too. The problem with this is that people define their own rules and some people are dumb. There is an excellent video where an atheist woman is challenged that animal lives are worth the same as human lives. Sorry but I can't find it.
And she argued that she had the moral high ground and animals were every bit as important. And the rebuttal was that the bible said human life was sacrosanct. Not animal life. And she scoffed and trashed the mans beliefs. So he asked her what her morality was built on if not religion. And she replied love and compassion.
So he asked her "If you were walking your dog and both your dog and a stranger were stood on a frozen lake, and the ice cracked giving you time to save only one of them, which one would you save? The dog you love, or the stranger you know nothing about?" And she fucking paused. She thought about it for about 20-30 seconds by which time the guy asking said you've taken so long they are both dead.
So she says "my dog, I'd save my dog".
And that is the reason we have religions. It takes the guess work out of making important decisions of morality. She would save a wretched dog to give it 5 more years of life because she would act selfishly and she prizes love and animal life above that of men. Rather than suffer a little personal sense of loss, she would let a parent lose their son, a man lose his brother, a woman lose her husband and a child lose its father. Some people are just fucking dumb, and religion is good for them. If she thought for one second her own mortal soul would spend an eternity burning in hell if she didn't help the man, she'd have got him out pronto, because you can bet your last dime she values HER life more than that of her dog's.

So a set of moral rules everyone shares is important to building a successful civilisation. you cannot argue against that. There have been no successful civilisations that were atheist. None.

Now atheists like to criticise a religion by semantically picking holes in a story or part of it. Adam and Eve is a favourite refuge of the atheist. How can the first man and woman have 3 sons and mankind continue? Anthropology is not what the story is about. It is about resisting temptation. And religious people haven't just been stupid throughout the ages. There is this misconception that people were stupid before 1900 and that they are much smarter now and don't need religion. Ask one of those people to design a Cathedral however and they might appreciate that our forefathers weren't that stupid. Religious people ignore the flaws in a religion. It is called blind faith. You are blind to the flaws because you know that if you and everyone else buy into it, your lives will be immeasurably better. Would you rather know the truth and live in misery or believe in the fantasy if it means your life is better. Terry Pratchet understands this concept and Death explains it in the Hogfather.


Goto 1 minute and 51 seconds.

As Death says, you need to believe in things that aren't true to be human. To be civilised. It is no coincidence that when Europeans tried to civilise Africans and South American natives, they sent missionaries.

So having made my case that religion serves a purpose and that without it we would not be able to be civilised let me explain why religion is used to justify war.

Because it is so powerful. It is one of the 3 pillars. If you break any of the pillars you destroy a civilisation ... (yes the west is in decline because it removed usury laws forbidden by religion). It is now drowning in debt. Religion is there to hold the law to account. So when unscrupulous lawmakers are lobbied and changed the law against religion the people should cry heresy! Even the suggestion should be blasphemy. But by the time usury laws were revoked you had "educated" men leading Deist movements and claiming God was only for the stupid. Religion could no longer be the defense.

If you can grab any of the three pillars, you can rule a nation. Kings tend to grab hold of law. And steer a nation with its laws. Nathan Rothschild grabbed the money supply and boasted "I care not who makes the laws in a nation, he who controls the money supply controls the British Empire and I control the money supply". If we'd had an absolute King of course that one person could have just outlawed that, but Britain had a parliament and parliaments are full of corruption. The Vatican derived its power and wealth by grabbing hold of religion.
Anyone who abuses one of the three pillars is someone we define as a tyrant. Henry VIII is the only tyrant I can think of that abused all three. A super tyrant. He split religion and changed it so he could get a divorce to ensure his own linage. (fortunately only a small change which damaged the religion but didn't destroy it, most was left intact). He counterfeited the nation's money reducing the silver pound sterling from 92.5% silver down to 42.5%. Fortunately his daughter Elizabeth I put it right back so Britain didn't die in the same way the roman Empire did by counterfeiting the Denarius until it had 1/500th the silver it purported to have. And he changed all kinds of laws taking land from people and destroying private property rights. A grade A villain.

And so it is not the religion that is the problem. It is the men who take a religion and command its people to do awful things in the name of God. But without the religion there could be no civilisation. And if men could not control a religion, they would just seek to control the money or laws of a nation instead. It doesn't make any difference. They will cause wars whenever they need resources and blame whatever they can get away with. Unfortunately religion is a common goto. But the other two can do the same. Rothchild's mother said on her death bed, "if my sons did not want war, there would be none".

So the tl;dr answer to the OP is, people never go to war for religion. They go to war for resources, and religion is a handy excuse, but a different excuse would be conjured if religion didn't exist.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 11:19:05 AM by Screamer »

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #104 on: July 11, 2017, 04:14:24 PM »
Amen and Amen .... “The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards
the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained” .... George Washington

“It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.”  .... George Washington

Three of the most heinous and barbaric ideologies ..
which produced the greatest cruelties and violations of humanity in the 20th century ..
were fascism .. Nazism and communism . . . . all secular
no, they did not murder "in the name of atheism" .. they murdered from the ideological platform of atheism

Atheism and world peace ?? .... < not so much
Atheism As A Religion: An Introduction to the World's Least Understood Faith
the real consequences of atheism.mp3

btw: true Religion (the Biblical Jesus / divine accomplishment) indeed has its perverted Satanic siblings (the religions of Human achievement)

the damning power of false religion .. Recorded Jun 16 2013

Since we have accepted the technology of the atom and have rejected the sermon on the mount ..
we therefore now live in societies full of nuclear giants and ethical infants
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 03:39:17 AM by Boodidlie »
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception ... another angsty rant from that awful dadsnet thing

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #105 on: July 12, 2017, 12:41:50 PM »
@zara-Just because you say these wars were not started because of religion doesn't mean it is so. You might be right, but where's the evidence?

I think the biggest issue that goes unsaid is that people do violence for every reason, in fact every reason they can hold in their mind can be twisted to violence.

The Stalin and Mao arguments are canards because their violence was not motivated by atheism, or at least that is a conclusion I have never seen evidence for, and I have looked for it. Nazi Germany was certainly not secular.

There are very peaceful secular societies like Scandanavia and Canada. There are regimes that have done violence to eliminate religion; not Russia, China or Germany but Albania certainly has.

It seems to me that the horrors of war in the 20th century was on such a scale because of technology moreso than ideology.

There are religiously motivated crimes and violence too liiiiiike Jihad. Like Christians bombing abortion clinics. A giant portion of Zionists will tell you that the conflict between Palestine and Israel is religious. The tension is Kashmir is between Muslims and Hindus. The troubles in Ireland centered on the tribalism resulting from Protestantism and Catholicism.

Making someone in to an outsider is a better way to justify violence than ideology. Although any ideology can carry the message that outsiders are evil quite effectively.

I posted this on my phone, so sorry if it is unfocused and rambling.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #106 on: July 12, 2017, 01:23:15 PM »
"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." — Matthew 24:37 < are we there yet ??

In The News - The Earth is Filled With Violence Genesis 6:13 < this is what it all means for us today
---------------------------------------

1776 .. the US Revolutionary war dead = 4,435
1860 .. the US Civil war dead = 620,000
1914 .. WW1 dead = 8,500,000 (8.5 million) .. the war that was "supposed" to end all wars . . . until
1939 .. WW2 dead = 60,000,000 (60 million)

WW3 dead ? .. see: Revelation 9 = (1/3rd of mankind)

2,300,000,000 (probably) an all-out Global Nuclear exchange ..

1/3rd of the population is approx 2.3 Billion as of 2010 = (40 times WW2 dead) would someone like to tell me that this is not now possible ??

trending toward Wars and Rumors of Wars / violence will fill the Earth


1299
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 02:51:18 PM by Boodidlie »
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception ... another angsty rant from that awful dadsnet thing

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #107 on: July 12, 2017, 01:30:54 PM »
I would like to, but I can't.

I would recommend listening to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History episode on the outbreak of WW I. He does an interesting detour in to the growth of the standing army and how that contributed to ever escalating casualties in the 20th century.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #108 on: July 13, 2017, 10:11:33 AM »
trending toward Wars and Rumors of Wars / violence will fill the Earth

"And there shall in that time be rumours of things going astray, and there will be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia work base, that has an attachment…at this time, a friend shall lose his friend’s hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before around eight o’clock..." - Book of Python

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #109 on: July 13, 2017, 03:33:08 PM »
know this first of all Ghost .. that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking .. following after their own lusts

It must feel kinda weird to know you're actually playing a part in the fulfillment of Bible prophecy ?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 03:41:44 PM by Boodidlie »
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception ... another angsty rant from that awful dadsnet thing

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #110 on: July 13, 2017, 08:07:50 PM »

Even weirder to find out you are in a python scetch.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

No one infers a god from the simple, from the known, from what is understood, but from the complex, the unknown, and the incomprehensible. Our ignorance is God; what we know is science. Robert Green Ingersoll

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2017, 12:19:51 PM »
Before people start fighting me over the subject, I first want to say that actually I am a Christian and I go to church every Sunday and participate in many of the church's activities. However, I am really convinced that if we go back the moment humans were created on this earth, and take away every religion, there will be world peace... I don't know about you but I would really love to know your opinions.

I have to disagree with you.

Historically speaking, we cannot attribute as much of the conflict and violence in recorded human history to religious differences as is typically assumed. One can look at an obvious example of religious war, such as the First Crusade, and look at how differences in religion were used to start that conflict.

On the other hand, the largest conflicts and outbreaks of violence are usually caused by political and social factors. For example, we can look at World War I. Most of the nations involved in the "war to end all wars" nominally had some denomenation of Christianity as their official state religion, but there were also countries and empires involved that were predominantly Muslim or Hindu. The outbreak of total war between 1914 and 1918 wasn't precipitated by religion. Instead, rampant nationalism (mostly in Western Europe) from the late 1800s onwards had created a situation where widespread conflict was almost entirely sure to break out at some point. The war that broke out after the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand occured because of diplomatic, political, and nationalist choices.

As far as religiously-motivated violence and conflict go, I'm sure that many of the commentators before me have mentioned that religion is often just used as an excuse to justify someone's actions. In far too many of the cases where people blame religion, they're using it as a convenient excuse to get away, quite literally, with murder. If we didn't have religion, they'd be blaming ethnicity, race, language, economics, politics, social traditions, or any of the other myriad things that people use to differentiate themselves.

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Offline Dither

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2017, 09:52:18 PM »
Before people start fighting me over the subject,

Famous last words before said alt disappears into the Night-Lover261.

So have we establised yet that mankind doesn't need Religion to kill each other.
If so, where do we get our killer instincts from? Did we learn them or inherit them?
Why are we greedy and lustful? Is it for pleasure or is it a survival instinct?

Why do I have to go to a job that I hate, to make money to buy stuff that doesn't bring any fulfilment?
No seriously, I've gotta get out of the Gold Coast, I hate it here, it just sucks  :(
 

 
A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on its shoes.

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #113 on: July 17, 2017, 12:37:54 AM »
Before people start fighting me over the subject,

Famous last words before said alt disappears into the Night-Lover261. So have we establised yet that mankind doesn't need Religion to kill each other.
If so, where do we get our killer instincts from? Did we learn them or inherit them? Why are we greedy and lustful? Is it for pleasure or is it a survival instinct? Why do I have to go to a job that I hate, to make money to buy stuff that doesn't bring any fulfilment? No seriously, I've gotta get out of the Gold Coast, I hate it here, it just sucks  :(

word to the Child of God (Christian) ..... > these things I (Jesus) have spoken to you .. so that in me you may have peace ..
In the world you have tribulation .. but take courage . . .  I have overcome the world ...... John 16:33

word to the Child of Satan (atheist / unsaved) ..... life sucks and then you die


« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 12:41:37 AM by Boodidlie »
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception ... another angsty rant from that awful dadsnet thing

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #114 on: July 17, 2017, 11:37:59 AM »
Before people start fighting me over the subject,

Famous last words before said alt disappears into the Night-Lover261. So have we establised yet that mankind doesn't need Religion to kill each other.
If so, where do we get our killer instincts from? Did we learn them or inherit them? Why are we greedy and lustful? Is it for pleasure or is it a survival instinct? Why do I have to go to a job that I hate, to make money to buy stuff that doesn't bring any fulfilment? No seriously, I've gotta get out of the Gold Coast, I hate it here, it just sucks  :(

word to the Child of God (Christian) ..... > these things I (Jesus) have spoken to you .. so that in me you may have peace ..
In the world you have tribulation .. but take courage . . .  I have overcome the world ...... John 16:33

word to the Child of Satan (atheist / unsaved) ..... life sucks and then you die

I wouldn't expect a person of the book to find their own words to express their views.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #115 on: July 17, 2017, 01:37:56 PM »
Before people start fighting me over the subject,

Famous last words before said alt disappears into the Night-Lover261.

So have we establised yet that mankind doesn't need Religion to kill each other.
If so, where do we get our killer instincts from? Did we learn them or inherit them?
Why are we greedy and lustful? Is it for pleasure or is it a survival instinct?

Why do I have to go to a job that I hate, to make money to buy stuff that doesn't bring any fulfilment?
No seriously, I've gotta get out of the Gold Coast, I hate it here, it just sucks  :(
 

It’s called the evolutionary condition or the Entropy Tango;

Categorised (by me) as ; The angst and fear felt by a fast-evolving species whose technological innovations have outstripped their ability to cope with the resultant changes. These species are characterised by rapid inflationary growth in both science, industrial capabilities and population growth leading to a brief era of enlightenment, when underpinning rules of the universe are first discovered, followed by hope for a glorious future, (usually at the time flight becomes widespread) followed by gradual realisation of the mind numbing futility of it all, as resource depletion and environmental degradation, allied to the comprehension that instead of putting the best minds in control of the bus, we have relinquished the pedals to the greedy and stupid, as we couldn’t be arsed to pay attention to what was actually happening, as most of us belong in those categories.

This decline is further exacerbated by the resurgence of retarded world views, given too much latitude during their initial decline under the harsh spotlight of revealed scientific truth, by liberal softies, sure they would fade gently into obscurity.

Instead the institutionally insane who have nurtured whatever dark age mumbo jumbo they were incapable of discarding through fear of upsetting whatever nebulous vindictive precursor their forefathers had managed to mash together from their fears and hopes, ride back in to town with righteous vengeance in their twisted hearts.
Seeing "things", and rumours of "things", that are very definitely mentioned, or at least hinted at, if you squint and read correctly, in the book of iron age gibberish, that despite being preceded by much older and more interesting books of nonsense, won out due presumably to its very simplicity. The faithful will now, (notwithstanding that said deity is kind and all loving), nail you to some wood or chuck you in a fire should you point out they are talking bollocks, because science can’t get us out of this mess and in any case, as they keep saying, the signs are there.

Anyway, when all the hacking and slashing and burning is all over, the balance will have been restored, the fine minds will have been destroyed as it’s easier to blame the few than the many, and thought processes will have been put in place to make sure enlightenment is never reached again and whoever is left will sit chanting around fires still waiting for the deity to arrive and take the faithful to paradise, and heaven help any who grumble that he is late. The timeline between illumination and here about 3,000 yrs.

I think you instinctually realise this Dither, and get depressed.     
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 03:49:59 PM by Jura-Glenlivet »
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

No one infers a god from the simple, from the known, from what is understood, but from the complex, the unknown, and the incomprehensible. Our ignorance is God; what we know is science. Robert Green Ingersoll

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Offline Dither

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #116 on: July 17, 2017, 09:39:36 PM »
I think you instinctually realise this Dither, and get depressed.

Thanks Jura,
I do enjoy reading your rants so maybe I'm a little less depressed now.  :)

Actually, in my last post I was trying to point out original sin and its consequences, and yeah, I really want to move away from the Gold Coast and live in a more isolated part of Australia, either far north or costal Western Australia.
I just want to be where less people are and scale back our lives a bit.

My desire is to get back to fishing and the occasional surf (while I'm still young enough to paddle) and also encourage my wife to do her arty stuff (sketching and crafting) and get used to living poor.

 Anyway, now I've managed to make the discussion all about "ME" my premise is that original sin and pride is why the world is so stuffed and enlightenment and even Christianity cannot remove the stain (but Christ atones for it)
So to be found in Christ is the safest route, in fact its the only route so seek Him while you can.   

Oh yeah, and the world is flat 
A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on its shoes.

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #117 on: July 18, 2017, 03:04:35 AM »
Oh yeah, and the world is flat

If the World were flat .... you would always have a direct line of sight to the Sun ... the Sun would never move so far away that you could not see it
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 03:13:53 AM by Boodidlie »
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception ... another angsty rant from that awful dadsnet thing

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Offline Dither

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #118 on: July 18, 2017, 05:20:58 AM »
The Sun would never move so far away that you could not see it

But the sun does exactly that because God has created it that way,
 
The Bible describes the sun and moon as having fixed circuits which revolve around a stationary earth plane, this description works perfectly well with a flat earth model.

Ps 19:6 Its rising is from one end of the heavens, And its circuit to the other end of them; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.
A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on its shoes.

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #119 on: July 18, 2017, 10:41:22 AM »
know this first of all Ghost .. that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking .. following after their own lusts

It must feel kinda weird to know you're actually playing a part in the fulfillment of Bible prophecy ?

No weirder than being a part of the prophecy that says "and lo! The people did wake up with the rising of the sun from their slumber from which they slept"

People have been mocking your preferred fairy-tale for as long as it has existed. Look at the graffiti of Christ with a donkey-head etched into Roman plaster in about 200AD:

"Alexamenos sebetai theon"

It seems that the mockers have been mocking with their mockery for at least 1,900 years. Either the 'last days' are a comically long period of time, or that prophecy ain't worth the gibberish it's written in with its writing.