Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #60 on: July 04, 2017, 04:02:23 AM »
Language is not Code

omG .... mama told me not to argue w/ idiots < I'll take her advice :P

CODE IS DEFINED as communication between an encoder ( a writer or speaker ) and a decoder ( a reader or listener ) using agreed upon symbols

If I wrote on a wall-board .. "Oh lordie is a fat ole dunderhead" in Chinese .... would lordie understand what I wrote ?? ... probably not, no agreed symbols .... sorry mom :)

btw Oh lord Dave, .. name any code (ie blueprints / music / language / recipe etc) which came about via non-intelligence

............... oops !! and then there was man
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 05:03:06 AM by Boodidlie »
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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #61 on: July 04, 2017, 11:45:47 AM »
Language is not Code

omG .... mama told me not to argue w/ idiots < I'll take her advice :P

CODE IS DEFINED as communication between an encoder ( a writer or speaker ) and a decoder ( a reader or listener ) using agreed upon symbols

If I wrote on a wall-board .. "Oh lordie is a fat ole dunderhead" in Chinese .... would lordie understand what I wrote ?? ... probably not, no agreed symbols .... sorry mom :)

btw Oh lord Dave, .. name any code (ie blueprints / music / language / recipe etc) which came about via non-intelligence

............... oops !! and then there was man
And yet, if you wrote it in Chinese, it would still be language.

Code require language to exist, otherwise it has no information to pass on.  For example:

Afterthought snore cheer carpenter wakeful rock mend support slow magic exciting ultra.

 By your definition this is code yet, decoding it gives you nothing even though it's an agreed upon set of symbols by an encoder and decoder.

A bee's dance is also code and language.  So there ya go, that's one.  Bee dancing.

DNA is code without language.  It's interacts with protein chains based on the laws of biochemistry (which is based on physics) to perform tasks. 

However, the problem with finding an example of code not made by intelligence is that you assume God made everything.  So thus, there is nothing in your view of the universe that can possibly be made by someone other than an intelligent being.  Even if we look at say... ice cores, which have information about the early times of the world in them (which scientists must decode using the agreed upon symbols of physics), you can just say "God did it, so not done by non-intelligence".


 

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #62 on: July 04, 2017, 02:28:09 PM »
DNA is biological information sequence
your post above Dave ....... are the letters / spaces and punctuation - are they of category A or category B
A = random / mindless / no structured sequence (just where they happened to land) .. or
B = design / code / information / intent / writer-reader / speaker-listener / agenda driven / intelligence

.. .. DNA: the tiny code that's toppling evolution

PS: "Afterthought snore cheer carpenter wakeful rock mend support slow magic exciting ultra." < would not INSTRUCT the cell how to proliferate / maintain and even repair itself as we see in DNA

.. Genesis 1:1 -- Creation: Believe It or Not
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 03:38:17 AM by Boodidlie »
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception ... another angsty rant from that awful dadsnet thing

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #63 on: July 04, 2017, 03:15:21 PM »
if we look at say... ice cores, which have information about the early times of the world in them (which scientists must decode using the agreed upon symbols of physics),
you can just say "God did it, so not done by non-intelligence".

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PATTERNS AND CODES .... PATTERNS occur naturally .. no help required from a 'designer' . . .
Many patterns occur in nature without the help of a designer .. snowflakes .. tornadoes .. hurricanes .. sand dunes .. stalactites .. rivers and ocean waves . . .
These patterns are the natural result of what scientists categorize as chaos and fractals .. These things are well-understood and we experience them every day ...
CODES .. however .. do not occur without a designer . . . Examples of symbolic codes include music .. blueprints .. languages like English and Chinese .. computer programs .. and yes .. DNA .....
The essential distinction is the difference between a pattern and a code .. Chaos can produce patterns .. but chaos has never been shown to produce codes or symbols . . .
Codes and symbols store information .. which is not a property of matter and energy alone .. Information itself is a separate entity.

ice cores, which have information about the early times of the world in them ....
the only information in ice cores is the information WE (intelligence) measure and apply to them ... ice cores do not store information in and of themselves
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 03:56:18 PM by Boodidlie »
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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #64 on: July 04, 2017, 06:59:13 PM »
Man, it's easy to prove God exists when you use convenient definitions for your terms.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #65 on: July 04, 2017, 09:25:22 PM »
you use convenient definitions for your terms .... really ??

DNA defined

deoxyribonucleic acid, a self-replicating material present in nearly all living organisms as the main constituent of chromosomes.
It is the carrier of genetic information
---------------------------------------
DNA .. Examples Word Origin .. 1. Genetics. deoxyribonucleic acid: an extremely long macromolecule that is the main component of chromosomes and is the material that transfers genetic characteristics in all life forms, constructed of two nucleotide strands coiled around each other in a ladderlike arrangement with the sidepieces composed of alternating phosphate and deoxyribose units and the rungs composed of the purine and pyrimidine bases adenine, guanine, cytosine, and thymine: the genetic information of DNA is encoded in the sequence of the bases and is transcribed as the strands unwind and replicate.
Compare base pair, gene, genetic code, RNA. ........... < all by an undirected / mindless accident of course, lol
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 09:52:13 PM by Boodidlie »
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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #66 on: July 04, 2017, 09:44:47 PM »
I meant for "code" and "pattern".
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #67 on: July 04, 2017, 09:50:49 PM »
I meant for "code" and "pattern"

it sounds to me you understand not the meaning of either
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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #68 on: July 04, 2017, 09:53:53 PM »
I meant for "code" and "pattern"

it sounds to me you understand not the meaning of either

Keep believing that. It makes it easier for you to dismiss criticism. You need that when dealing with creationism.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #69 on: July 04, 2017, 10:56:15 PM »
Afterthought snore cheer carpenter wakeful rock mend support slow magic exciting ultra .... By your definition this is code yet blah blah blah

um, no .... random words with no intended meaning  / intention or instruction is not code ....
It would be as if I handed you a twenty dollar bill cut into pieces / rearranged / half the pieces flipped upside down and taped together all discombobulated  ... would you accept it ??
again lord Dave found wanting ..... follow the science Dave ... follow the science
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 02:58:26 PM by Boodidlie »
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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #70 on: July 05, 2017, 03:19:54 PM »
There is no scientific theory that requires a code be created by intelligence.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #71 on: July 05, 2017, 03:26:25 PM »
it's interesting that you claim the difference between a pattern and a code is the intent, that a code is intended to carry information - in this case instructions for making an organism. However, you haven't demonstrated intent. A river bed is a 'code' of sorts which transmits information to water molecules about how to flow, and this information is constantly read and replicated by millions, billions of water molecules every day. A river on the 5th May is not the same river as one on the 6th May, but by following the instructions of the riverbed, the water has replicated a functionally identical river.

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #72 on: July 05, 2017, 04:08:55 PM »
A river bed is a 'code' of sorts which transmits information < (um, no) to water molecules about how to flow

No .... not really, you're seeing patterns, not code
waster contains no internal complex communication mechanism, no DNA ... just as dirt, water is matter and matter alone .... Life is matter + DNA < information
information (code) can only come about via a designer .... biological s e q u e n c e < back to the drawing board for you ... follow the science Gost

So tell me Gost (since lord Dave failed to answer) .... your post above, are the letters / spaces and punctuation - are they of category A or category B
A = random / mindless / no structured sequence (just where they happened to land) .. or
B = design / code / information / intent / writer-reader / speaker-listener / agenda driven / intelligence

« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 05:59:54 PM by Boodidlie »
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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #73 on: July 05, 2017, 05:57:50 PM »
A river bed is a 'code' of sorts which transmits information < (um, no) to water molecules about how to flow

No .... not really, you're seeing patterns, not code
waster contains no internal complex communication mechanism, no DNA ... just as dirt, water is matter and matter alone .... Life is matter + DNA < information
information (code) can only come about via a designer .... biological s e q u e n c e < back to the drawing board for you ... follow the science Gost

Hey silly, DNA is matter too.  Please support your assertion that "information (code) can only come about via a designer".  I see no justification for this.   
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #74 on: July 05, 2017, 06:02:06 PM »
DNA is matter too < and also the letters on the Gettysburg address are paper and ink (matter) ... so is your latest hard-copy romance novel

a painting is canvas / wood and paints (matter) ... now tell me about the Mona Lisa

support your assertion that "information (code) can only ..... < study this link till you understand it

was morse code derived by undirected random chance ... or was morse code derived by a designer / intelligence

I see no justification for this < Indeed a man convinced against his will is unconvinced still

what's worse than being blind is having eyes and being unwilling to see ... Helen Keller

your DNA is not just a mixture of chemicals, but a code sequence that is specifically you ...
it's what stands in a court of law as admissible evidence that might place you at a certain scene ..
just as your finger prints (and even now an eye scan) are unique to you and to no one else on the planet
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 06:54:24 PM by Boodidlie »
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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #75 on: July 05, 2017, 07:23:25 PM »
DNA is matter too < and also the letters on the Gettysburg address are paper and ink (matter) ... so is your latest hard-copy romance novel

a painting is canvas / wood and paints (matter) ... now tell me about the Mona Lisa

support your assertion that "information (code) can only ..... < study this link till you understand it



was morse code derived by undirected random chance ... or was morse code derived by a designer / intelligence

Sorry, you concocting your own convenient definition of "code" is not convincing of anything except your bias. In fact when you look up the Merriam-Webster definition of "code", you'll see it has a separate entry for Genetic code meaning the definition for genetic code is not the same as that of morse code or indeed any generalized code. 

Quote
I see no justification for this < Indeed a man convinced against his will is unconvinced still

what's worse than being blind is having eyes and being unwilling to see ... Helen Keller

Ad hominems are not really a help.

Quote
your DNA is not just a mixture of chemicals, but a code sequence that is specifically you ...
it's what stands in a court of law as admissible evidence that might place you at a certain scene ..
just as your finger prints (and even now an eye scan) are unique to you and to no one else on the planet

What does that have to do with requiring an intelligence or not? As far as I can tell this is irrelevant.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #76 on: July 05, 2017, 07:26:53 PM »
As far as I can tell this is irrelevant .... later dude





« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 02:03:03 PM by Boodidlie »
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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #77 on: July 05, 2017, 08:37:26 PM »
As far as I can tell this is irrelevant .... later dude

I'm sorry you can't justify your faith based beliefs with rational thought.  Good luck to you.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

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Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #78 on: July 06, 2017, 08:11:39 AM »
A river bed is a 'code' of sorts which transmits information < (um, no) to water molecules about how to flow

No .... not really, you're seeing patterns, not code
waster contains no internal complex communication mechanism, no DNA ... just as dirt, water is matter and matter alone .... Life is matter + DNA < information
information (code) can only come about via a designer .... biological s e q u e n c e < back to the drawing board for you ... follow the science Gost

So tell me Gost (since lord Dave failed to answer) .... your post above, are the letters / spaces and punctuation - are they of category A or category B
A = random / mindless / no structured sequence (just where they happened to land) .. or
B = design / code / information / intent / writer-reader / speaker-listener / agenda driven / intelligence

DNA is just matter. The various nucleotides combine as an inevitable result of chemistry, just as a river meanders through a valley as an inevitable result of geology. You haven't demonstrated that there is any intent behind how DNA forms any more than any intent behind how a river forms.

Re: No Religion= Peace
« Reply #79 on: July 06, 2017, 01:19:26 PM »
DNA is just matter

no, water and dirt are matter alone ... life is matter + information / code

... follow the science Gost ..

apply the intelligence to whomsoever you will ... sorry, but mindless undirected random chance need not apply

You haven't demonstrated  < oh but indeed I have
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 06:35:55 PM by Boodidlie »
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