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Offline Boots

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #220 on: May 17, 2018, 07:57:32 PM »
Some types of cancer have been cured =/= Cancer is easily cured.

I absolutely agree with the former but disagree that the latter is in any way an accurate reflection of reality.

BTW I'm a fan of maintaining good health through diet and exercise. I don't disagree with the idea of eating foods that discourage cancer. At all. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 08:32:30 PM by Boots »
Where the senses fail us, reason must step in. - Galileo Galilei

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Offline Boots

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #221 on: May 18, 2018, 12:43:35 PM »
I think this whole thread is highly irresponsble and immoral given the numbers of people who die each day from this particular affliction. Its also massively insulting to all those who are currently enduring the various types of chemo and radiation therapies that are required.
Why i would like to see is a meta analysis of the studies that have been carried out on which the claim is based.
Meta analysis would be great. But the short answer is, certain dietary and lifestyle habits can give you an edge in beating and warding off cancer. A certain number of people, probably quite a small number, have possibly avoided cancer or even fought off an attack by sticking to certain healthy habits.

While the thread title may contain some small element of truth, it is at best misleading and in my opinion it is false.

More accurate would be "In Some Rare Cases Some Types of Cancer May Be Cured By Maintaining Strict Adherence to Certain Lifestyle Habits"
Where the senses fail us, reason must step in. - Galileo Galilei

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #222 on: May 18, 2018, 02:17:19 PM »

So, you would expect those countries that consumed the most garlic to have the lowest cancer rates?

Hippocrates and other nautopaths had their patients eat a truly massive amount of garlic in their prescriptions. I am not sure that such statistics would tell us anything.

If you actually followed the types of instructions Hippocrates gave you, you would absolutely reek of garlic through every pore of your body. Your breath would smell of it. Your body would smell of it. No one would want to be around you, and you would not even want to be around yourself. You would have to isolate yourself from society until you were cured.

This is actually the reason why in nauturopathic circles solutions such as Vitamin C IVs are more popular for treating cancer these days, despite the cheapness and availability of garlic. The whole heavy powerful herb approach has its social drawbacks. There are no such stigmatizing side effects with the Vitamin C IVs.



So these wonder drugs we should get from the grocers, don't work in low doses, even at 13 times the average, you had better not tell that to the Homoeopaths. 
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

Where there is evidence, no one speaks of 'faith'. We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence. -Bertrand Russell.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #223 on: May 19, 2018, 12:12:34 PM »
So these wonder drugs we should get from the grocers, don't work in low doses, even at 13 times the average, you had better not tell that to the Homoeopaths.
True story.
Quote
Sock horror in homeopathic cholera statistics
This is the second paragraph from Ben Goldacre’s recent comment piece Benefits and risks of homeopathy in The Lancet’s November 17 edition.
              During the cholera epidemic in the 19th century, death rates at the London Homoeopathic Hospital were three times lower than those at the Middlesex Hospital. (6) The reason for homoeopathy’s success in this epidemic is even more interesting than the placebo effect. At the time, nobody could treat cholera, and while medical treatments such as blood-letting were actively harmful, the homoeopaths’ treatments were at least inert.

(6) Hempel S. The medical detective. London, UK: Granta Books, 2006

From: Laughing my socks off … A weblog about science, homeopathy and spin. And socks.
Back then homoeopathy did nothing, which was less harmful than the then current "mainstream" medical treatments.
And today, as then, homoeopathy does no good apart from being a very effective placebo for believers and a very effective money spinner for the practitioner.

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Offline BillO

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #224 on: August 01, 2018, 11:23:21 PM »
More dribble from the king of dribble.

I go through about 5 garlic bulbs a week as well as ounces of garlic powder and have capsaicin at every meal.  I love hot food and sometimes eat a fistful of pickled garlic for a snack.  Rather than sugar, which i don't eat, I even put garlic, chilies, black pepper and cumin in my oatmeal then put an over-easy egg on it.  Thing about garlick is, once you get acclimated to it, you stop stinking of it.  Your body just be gets better at breaking it down a metabolizing it.

This is not a fad thing I got onto by myself either.  I lived in Africa for 6 years and both my parents lived in India (and of course Africa) for years.  This is the way I've always done it, the way of my upbringing.  My Mother who also ate garlic like it was popcorn died of cancer around the time this hokum post got started.  Diffuse large B-cell lymphoma.  Not a nice way to go.

Tom, pray you don't get cancer.  All the garlic and chili peppers in the world are not going to save you.
Here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

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The moon's orbital path has a diameter of 768,000 km. That is almost one million miles.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #225 on: August 01, 2018, 11:44:15 PM »
More dribble from the king of dribble.

I go through about 5 garlic bulbs a week as well as ounces of garlic powder and have capsaicin at every meal.  I love hot food and sometimes eat a fistful of pickled garlic for a snack.  Rather than sugar, which i don't eat, I even put garlic, chilies, black pepper and cumin in my oatmeal then put an over-easy egg on it.  Thing about garlick is, once you get acclimated to it, you stop stinking of it.  Your body just be gets better at breaking it down a metabolizing it.

This is not a fad thing I got onto by myself either.  I lived in Africa for 6 years and both my parents lived in India (and of course Africa) for years.  This is the way I've always done it, the way of my upbringing.  My Mother who also ate garlic like it was popcorn died of cancer around the time this hokum post got started.  Diffuse large B-cell lymphoma.  Not a nice way to go.

Tom, pray you don't get cancer.  All the garlic and chili peppers in the world are not going to save you.

BillO, you know perfectly well thats an anecdote and is no better than anything Tom has posted.
Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot.

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Offline BillO

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #226 on: August 02, 2018, 12:02:13 AM »
Yes, you are right.  To everyone else it is just an anecdote, but to me it's my experience.

Sorry, I've really nothing else except my experience on this.  I'm neither an oncologist, a herbalist or a connoisseur of wild conspiracies.
Here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

Quote from: Tom Bishop - Zetetic Council Member
The moon's orbital path has a diameter of 768,000 km. That is almost one million miles.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #227 on: August 02, 2018, 12:38:15 AM »
I have posted numerous university studies which say that cancer was reversed in animals via garlic. Are the universities lying?

Tom you pushed a lot of "correlation equals causation" narratives in the last 2 pages. It doesn't hold together because it doesn't show that carrots/prayer/Chinese medicine could be the only cause of the change in people's condition.

The placebo effect and morale are well known to be effective but that is about patient belief in health and well-being and nothing to do with garlic/carrots/bullshit medicine.

If Garlic is complete BS, please explain the following:

http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/11/garlic-the-natural-cure-8-scientific-studies-that-prove-garlic-kills-cancer-dead-dead-dead/

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In Dr. Earl Mindell’s Garlic: The Miracle Nutrient, a 1957 study in the journal Science reported that researchers incubated sarcoma tumor cells with the garlic compound Allinase and S-ethyl-L-cysteine sulfoxide, then injected the tumor cells into mice. Tumor growth was completely inhibited and the mice survived beyond the sixth month observation period according to researchers. Mice injected with the tumor cells only (without the garlic compound), survived only 2 months.

http://www.miracleofgarlic.com/cancer-and-garlic/

Quote
The good news is research into garlic against cancer has shown positive results.  In laboratory tests with mice, garlic stabilized and actually shrunk tumors.  In mice injected with garlic extracts, tumor growth decreased by 30-50%.  In mice that were given dietary garlic, the growths decreased by 10-25%.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9707/21/nfm.garlic.cancer/index.html

Quote
One study, at the Mercy Cancer Institute in Pittsburgh, shows that garlic can help slow the growth of tumors.

"We have shown that some of these compounds prevent cancer in animals, and we hope that's the case in humans," said Shivendra Singh of the institute.

"We know how these garlic compounds are inhibiting cancer, but whether or not they have some kind of specificity for certain types of tumors, that remains to be seen," he said.

Other studies, some of them at West Virginia University, have found that garlic can inhibit the growth of breast cancer.

Also, says Dr. Donald Lamm of West Virginia University, "garlic very significantly reduced the growth of bladder tumors in mice."

Researchers at the university think garlic may help boost the immune system in laboratory mice, thereby reducing the growth of cancerous cells.

More Animal Studies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3632025/

Quote
Conclusions:

Administration of AGE (aged garlic extract ) resulted in improved immune responses against experimentally implanted fibrosarcoma tumors in BALB/c mice. AGE showed significant effects on inhibition of tumor growth and longevity of survival times.

Garlic as compared to the chemotherapy drug Cisplatin for treating cancer:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29595070

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The Anticancer Effects of Garlic Extracts on Bladder Cancer Compared to Cisplatin

Abstract

Although garlic induces apoptosis in cancer cells, it is unclear whether the effects are similar to those of cisplatin against bladder cancer (BC). Therefore, this study investigated whether garlic extracts and cisplatin show similar activity when used to treat BC. The effect of garlic on T24 BC cell line was examined in a BALB/C-nude mouse xenograft model and compared with that of cisplatin. Tissue microarray analysis and gene network analysis were performed to identify differences in gene expression by control tumors and tumors exposed to garlic extract or cisplatin. Investigation of gene expression based on tissues from 165 BC patients and normal controls was then performed to identify common targets of garlic and cisplatin. Tumor volume and tumor weight in cisplatin (0.05[Formula: see text]mg/kg)- and garlic-treated mice were significantly smaller than those in negative control mice. However, cisplatin-treated mice also showed a significant reduction in body weight. Microarray analysis of tumor tissue identified 515 common anticancer genes in the garlic and cisplatin groups ([Formula: see text]). Gene network analysis of 252 of these genes using the Cytoscape and ClueGo software packages mapped 17 genes and 9 gene ontologies to gene networks. BC (NMIBC and MIBC) patients with low expression of centromere protein M (CENPM) showed significantly better progression-free survival than those with high expression. Garlic extract shows anticancer activity in vivo similar to that of cisplatin, with no evidence of side effects. Both appear to act by targeting protein-DNA complex assembly; in particular, expression of CENPM.

The one above says that garlic is just as good as a popular chemotherapy drug.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 03:13:21 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #228 on: August 02, 2018, 12:46:34 AM »
People:

https://books.google.com/books?id=t22vBQAAQBAJ&lpg=PA244&ots=SQEqINl0gT&dq=allicin%20cured%20cancer%20in%20mice&pg=PA245#v=onepage&q&f=false



...




Garlic tested on mammalian cancer cells, including human:

The Effects of Allicin, a Reactive Sulfur Species from
Garlic, on a Selection of Mammalian Cell Lines


Quote
2.1. Cell Lines and Cultivation
Cell lines: A549 (human alveolar basal epithelial adenocarcinoma cell, ATCC#CCL-185), NIH 3T3
(neonatal fibroblasts from Mouse, ATCC#CRL-1658) HUVEC (human umbilical vein endothelial cells),
HT29 (human colorectal epithelial carcinoma, ATCC#HTB-38) and MCF7 (human mammary carcinoma,
ATCC#HTB-22) were from the Department of Immunology, Cochin Hospital, Paris Descartes
University, Paris, France. Cells were cultivated in complete medium containing RPMI Medium
(Roswell Park Memorial Institute Medium, Invitrogen) containing 10% FCS (foetal calf serum) and
1% Penicillin/Streptomycin (10,000 U/mL) (Invitrogen, Waltham, MA, USA). Cells were incubated at
37 C and 5% CO2.

...


These data show that allicin is an inhibitor of cell viability and cell proliferation in a concentration
dependent manner, but that different cell lines show different sensitivities.

So tell me, are the above researchers lying?

In my last post we saw that Garlic performed similarly to a popular chemotherapy drug. Were those researchers lying or mistaken?

There seem to be hundreds of these garlic studies. This conversation is "nah uh" against the entire field of medical research which tells us that, yes, garlic does reverse cancer.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 01:39:13 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline BillO

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #229 on: August 02, 2018, 03:54:12 AM »
I had read a study on how capsaicin appeared to reduce colon cancer, however as I recall it was based on a correlation between otherwise unrelated data sets.  Unfortunately I can’t seem to locate it now.  IIRC it seemed rather compelling, this given that I’m no biologist, correlating the low incidence of reported colon cancer in several countries with high capsaicin consumption rates.

I have no idea if these researcher’s are lying.  I’m ill equipped to judge their work being a mere technocrat.  Given my diet I’d naturally like to think it would give me some sort of survival advantage, but I remain unconvinced.  I’ll have to put it down to scientific scepticism but, after much thought this evening, I’ll retract my asssertation it is dribble.  I simply don’t know enough to make that claim.

My apologies on this one Tom.
Here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

Quote from: Tom Bishop - Zetetic Council Member
The moon's orbital path has a diameter of 768,000 km. That is almost one million miles.

pj1

Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #230 on: August 02, 2018, 08:43:23 AM »
I know it was 12 pages back but I wanted to reply to the OP.

Please consult a medical professional, such as a naturopathic doctor

Please, please, consult a medical professional such as a medical professional.   A doctor, an actual MD. 

Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #231 on: August 08, 2018, 03:32:57 PM »
He is an article that dispels the myth of Hippocrates are the source of all the acts and writings that we attribute to him.

https://theconversation.com/hippocrates-didnt-write-the-oath-so-why-is-he-the-father-of-medicine-32334

In fact it is widely accepted that Hippocrates did not write the oath, no text in the hippocratic corpus can definitely be attributed to him and it is more likely that these texts were assembled over a few centuries by various people.  Some historians have identified as many as 19 authors involved in the Hippocratic corpus.  So... you can kindly refrain from pushing your argument from authority, thanks.
Providing revisionist history does nothing to support your position.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #232 on: August 08, 2018, 03:48:49 PM »
He is an article that dispels the myth of Hippocrates are the source of all the acts and writings that we attribute to him.

https://theconversation.com/hippocrates-didnt-write-the-oath-so-why-is-he-the-father-of-medicine-32334

In fact it is widely accepted that Hippocrates did not write the oath, no text in the hippocratic corpus can definitely be attributed to him and it is more likely that these texts were assembled over a few centuries by various people.  Some historians have identified as many as 19 authors involved in the Hippocratic corpus.  So... you can kindly refrain from pushing your argument from authority, thanks.
Providing revisionist history does nothing to support your position.

Providing evidence that Hippocrates is not the authority Tom says he is, does, however. 
Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot.

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« Reply #233 on: August 12, 2018, 11:34:33 AM »
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« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 08:30:15 AM by user324 »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #234 on: August 12, 2018, 12:54:28 PM »
I don't have time to read all 12 pages.

So can someone quickly post the studies which prove that 'cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items'?


(P.s. if you applied garlic to this forum, would it cease to exist?)

Scroll up. There are studies on this very page, one of which that says that garlic performs similarly to a cancer-killing chemotherapy drug.

Rather vexing studies if garlic really does nothing for cancer.

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« Reply #235 on: August 12, 2018, 02:11:14 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 08:30:10 AM by user324 »

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« Reply #236 on: August 12, 2018, 02:19:03 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 08:30:05 AM by user324 »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #237 on: August 12, 2018, 02:36:49 PM »
I'm talking about #227. The study says that it was tested in vivo.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29595070

Quote
Microarray analysis of tumor tissue identified 515 common anticancer genes in the garlic and cisplatin groups ([Formula: see text]). Gene network analysis of 252 of these genes using the Cytoscape and ClueGo software packages mapped 17 genes and 9 gene ontologies to gene networks. BC (NMIBC and MIBC) patients with low expression of centromere protein M (CENPM) showed significantly better progression-free survival than those with high expression. Garlic extract shows anticancer activity in vivo similar to that of cisplatin, with no evidence of side effects. Both appear to act by targeting protein-DNA complex assembly; in particular, expression of CENPM.

The sentence says that garlic shows similar anticancer activity to that of the chemotherapy drug cisplatin, in vivo, and without the side effects of a chemotherapy drug.

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« Reply #238 on: August 13, 2018, 04:54:56 PM »
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« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 08:30:01 AM by user324 »

Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #239 on: August 14, 2018, 10:30:49 PM »
Can you cure Super Gonorrhoea with common grocery store items? Asking for a friend. 

In the news today ... cabbage stops cancer.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45171651
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 11:22:03 AM by Baby Thork »
We should beat Thork with mops.