*

Offline Parsifal

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5492
  • Professional computer somebody
    • View Profile
On the notion of FES reunification
« on: July 19, 2014, 06:37:29 PM »
As has been alluded to in another thread, the possibility of a reunification between this Society and theflatearthsociety.org is now open for discussion from the community. Given the uncertainty evident in that thread as to what exactly a "reunification" entails, I want to lay down specifics and allow people to comment on them.

Let me say, first and foremost, that this site exists and always has existed to serve its members. I don't have a political agenda beyond doing what is right by you guys; I've taken the lead in running this website because I sincerely believe I am best qualified, not because I want to be in charge. I will happily work with the other website or independently of them, whichever best suits the community's needs.

It is therefore imperative that everyone has a chance to express an informed opinion prior to a major organisational change, such as a reunification.


As it stands, reunification would likely entail Daniel assuming leadership of the unified Society, while we (myself and pizaaplanet) assume control of the unified online community. Daniel's purview would include things such as the Flat Earth Library and press releases; ours would include things such as the forum and the wiki.

There are details that would need to be worked out, but from a technical perspective, I know very well what concessions I would need from any reunification agreement in order to continue managing the forum as well as it is currently. Rest assured that no reunification will be agreed to that compromises our ability to support the community; any discussion or debate of specific details now would be premature and futile.


What I would like people's opinions on is whether or not an agreement of this sort is, in principle, something the community wants to pursue. If the answer is yes, then we can figure out the details later. If it is no, then there are no details to work out. Please try to keep to the topic; it's much simpler to answer one question at a time than to figure out all the tiny details at once.

To summarise, please consider whether you would like to see a reunion where Daniel heads the Society and myself and pizaaplanet head the online community (forum and wiki). If no, but you would be open to a reunion under different broad terms, please say so. If you would like to discuss something not covered by that, please create a new thread.

Of course, if anything I've said is unclear, please ask me about it. I understand that this can be a delicate situation for all involved, so I want to be crystal clear rather than risk a misunderstanding. Likewise, if anyone responds unclearly, I will ask for clarification.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Thork

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2014, 06:40:04 PM »
We have already received 3 of the 5 Zetetic council opinions. Therefore it is the Council's position that we do not want Shenton as leader of the flat earth society.

Ghost of V

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2014, 06:47:25 PM »
How would this work?

Would this forum cease to exist? Because I don't like that.

*

Offline markjo

  • *
  • Posts: 3616
  • Zetetic Council runner-up
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2014, 06:48:09 PM »
To summarise, please consider whether you would like to see a reunion where Daniel heads the Society and myself and pizaaplanet head the online community (forum and wiki).
Although some probably wouldn't be happy with Daniel being involved at any level, I think that this is probably the most reasonable solution.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2014, 06:52:09 PM »
Personally, I don't see this as something to be actively pursued until Daniel himself comes forward with wanting to reunite. As far as I'm aware, we've been open to this discussion from the get-go, and I don't see how that situation has changed at all, with the exception of Wilmore (not Daniel) coming to speak on unrelated matters.

So no, I'm not opposed to the idea of reunification, but I don't see the point in making terms for negotiations that might not ever happen. If anything, that would just divert our attention from what we should be doing until the situation changes, i.e. treating our society as a separate entity and improving/growing it with that in mind.

*

Offline Parsifal

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5492
  • Professional computer somebody
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2014, 06:55:03 PM »
Thanks for the opinions thus far. I'm only individually addressing them where clarification is needed at this point, but I appreciate all of your involvement.

We have already received 3 of the 5 Zetetic council opinions. Therefore it is the Council's position that we do not want Shenton as leader of the flat earth society.

Acknowledged, but for the record, the Zetetic Council has only as much influence in this matter as its constituent members. The Council was elected by the community, but as it has no constitution to set election terms, there is no way for the community to speak through the Council. This thread is intended to solicit opinions from the community.

How would this work?

Would this forum cease to exist? Because I don't like that.

All of your posts here will continue to exist. I don't know if they will be merged somehow into the other forum, or vice versa; that counts as a detail that can be discussed later. All I can say at this early stage is that we will not make any decision that compromises our primary goal of servicing the community, and forcing everyone to up and leave this forum and all their posting history doesn't qualify as servicing the community in my book.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Saddam Hussein

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2014, 07:05:10 PM »
I'm in favor in principle, but I share Blanko's concerns.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6402
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2014, 07:22:04 PM »
I say hold a vote on main forum of the other site on who would like to see fair and open elections. If the results rule that the society would like to see elections, Daniel will be embarrassed to do anything otherwise. As I said, I believe many people would be embarrassed to say "I'm the president. No elections!"

Let the community decide on how the power structure should be set up.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 08:28:53 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2014, 07:27:36 PM »
To summarise, please consider whether you would like to see a reunion where Daniel heads the Society and myself and pizaaplanet head the online community (forum and wiki).
Although some probably wouldn't be happy with Daniel being involved at any level, I think that this is probably the most reasonable solution.
Agreed.

*

Offline Foxbox

  • *
  • Posts: 956
  • We live inside a dream.
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2014, 07:44:24 PM »
Personally, I don't see this as something to be actively pursued until Daniel himself comes forward with wanting to reunite. As far as I'm aware, we've been open to this discussion from the get-go, and I don't see how that situation has changed at all, with the exception of Wilmore (not Daniel) coming to speak on unrelated matters.

So no, I'm not opposed to the idea of reunification, but I don't see the point in making terms for negotiations that might not ever happen. If anything, that would just divert our attention from what we should be doing until the situation changes, i.e. treating our society as a separate entity and improving/growing it with that in mind.

I agree with this.

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2014, 07:44:40 PM »
[..] between this Society and theflatearthsociety.org is now open for discussion from the community.

Right; && I'd just joined teh other - b4 noticing da fork. :-f
Z68A-G43 (G3) - i7-3770 - Vengeance 2x4GB 2133MHz - GTX 650 Gainward - WD 1TB 64MB SATA - Win7 Pro/64 SP1 / Trusty Xfce AMD64

Thork

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2014, 09:45:46 PM »
I say hold a vote on main forum of the other site on who would like to see fair and open elections. If the results rule that the society would like to see elections, Daniel will be embarrassed to do anything otherwise. As I said, I believe many people would be embarrassed to say "I'm the president. No elections!"

Let the community decide on how the power structure should be set up.
I don't use the other site. Besides, I could create 35 accounts and sway the election. But mainly I'm not keen on the other site deciding our fate. They are the people that chose to stay, after all.

*

Offline beardo

  • *
  • Posts: 4467
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2014, 10:09:32 PM »
To summarise, please consider whether you would like to see a reunion where Daniel heads the Society and myself and pizaaplanet head the online community (forum and wiki).
This is all I wish for.
The Mastery.

*

Offline Sean

  • *
  • Posts: 2233
  • Shitty liberal.
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2014, 10:24:50 PM »
First I want to ask, has there been any private conversation with Daniel in regards to any of this? If not I think we should have a baseline for discussion, what we would want to even consider reunification, but beyond that not really be concerned with the idea until Daniel comes forward publicly. It really seems like a waste of time. We could continue building this site instead of worrying about Daniels site.

Quote from: sandokhan
You are rushying to unwarranted conclusions

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2014, 10:37:48 PM »
First I want to ask, has there been any private conversation with Daniel in regards to any of this? If not I think we should have a baseline for discussion, what we would want to even consider reunification, but beyond that not really be concerned with the idea until Daniel comes forward publicly. It really seems like a waste of time. We could continue building this site instead of worrying about Daniels site.
Agreed.

Daniel should probably come post here and state what he thinks.

Of course, if he doesn't then I think that's really all the answer we need.

*

Offline Tau

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 911
  • Magistrum Fallaciae
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2014, 10:40:32 PM »
I think we ask too much when we say that Daniel should resign. Not because he shouldn't, but because he's the one we're trying to convince. All that really matters, from my point of view, is that he be put in a position where he can't hurt anything. Let him remain president, but take away his powers. Let a council do his job, and let him be a figurehead who pretends he still matters. We can even let him remain in control of t-shirt sales.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

Read the FAQ: http://wiki.tfes.org/index.php?title=FAQ

Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2014, 10:42:22 PM »
We can even let him remain in control of t-shirt sales.

But he's not good at that.

*

Offline Tau

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 911
  • Magistrum Fallaciae
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2014, 10:53:35 PM »
We can even let him remain in control of t-shirt sales.

But he's not good at that.

But do we care? If six months from now he still can't give us our shirts on time, we can take that privilege away from him too. But as an initial deal it seems reasonable to me.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

Read the FAQ: http://wiki.tfes.org/index.php?title=FAQ

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6402
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2014, 11:01:53 PM »
Daniel is already pretty much a figurehead. I suppose I'm okay with Daniel keeping his title and him continuing to do what he's already doing with the Library and t-shirts. I don't even mind him contacting the press from time to time, as he does. He can just keep doing what he already does.

What's more important to me is that he allows the society to succeed. Sharing access to the forum to our technical leads as Parsifal suggests in the OP and allowing something like an elected Zetetic Council to exist to organize community projects and give direction and leadership would be a fair compromise.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 12:29:38 AM by Tom Bishop »

Saddam Hussein

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2014, 12:57:29 AM »
To summarise, please consider whether you would like to see a reunion where Daniel heads the Society and myself and pizaaplanet head the online community (forum and wiki).
This is all I wish for.

And it's all we're ever going to get, at best.  I don't know why you guys are talking about officially making Daniel a "figurehead," let alone his resignation.  Why don't you ask for a nice foot rub from him while you're at it?  Getting him to agree to turn over technical control will be tough enough.