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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2014, 01:08:23 AM »
And it's all we're ever going to get, at best.  I don't know why you guys are talking about officially making Daniel a "figurehead," let alone his resignation.  Why don't you ask for a nice foot rub from him while you're at it?  Getting him to agree to turn over technical control will be tough enough.

I'm fine with keeping Daniel where he's at, to continue doing what he has been doing.

He just needs to allow us to do our thing. If Daniel becomes a figurehead that's his own prerogative. If he does nothing with the society, disappears for months at a time, checks in now and then for the sake of appearances, then he is a figurehead. If he gives the society the attention it needs and leads projects, events, participates in discussions, well, then he's a leader. What he is and is not can be entirely up to him. He just cannot limit growth of the society with his own personal inactions.

That is a compromise I am willing to take, and which I believe is fair for all.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 01:44:32 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2014, 01:31:29 AM »
I think Tom's argument could be diluted and made more appealing to the other side without removing much substance from it. How about something along these lines:

Daniel can be our leader, there's no problem with that. He can lead projects when he's around (hopefully often) and drive the society forward. What's important is that we have a structure to continue driving the society when he's not around. This could (should?) be periodically elected to try and minimise standstills.

I feel that this covers all bases. Daniel isn't just a figurehead, unless he's gone, in which case he is being deputised by a group of dedicated volunteers. His absence would not stand in our way, but he could still do everything he currently does. From my point of view (except for technical issues), when Daniel is around, he's doing a good job. It strikes me as reasonable that he should continue doing this job. It's just that when he disappears, the Society shouldn't suddenly come to a stop - and that's where direct member involvement could go a very long way.
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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2014, 01:48:40 AM »
Daniel does appear to do things for the society itself with interviews etc., this is something a president would do and he appears to do it pretty well.  The biggest issue I have with him is the way he operates the forums.  I'd be fine with him continuing as the president and him abdicating administration of the forum to Parsifal and Pizaaplanet, or other qualified people.

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Offline Tau

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2014, 01:55:29 AM »
I like all of this. Personally, I don't really care one way or another what happens to Daniel. I have nothing against him. I'm only concerned with what will work for the society.

So Daniel stays where he is, the Council operates pretty much as outlined in our constitution, and the three P's operate as they do here. Does this sound good to everyone?
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

Read the FAQ: http://wiki.tfes.org/index.php?title=FAQ

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2014, 02:44:36 AM »
That sounds good to me.We should go to them with what pp wrote.

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Offline junker

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2014, 04:07:26 AM »
That sounds good to me.We should go to them with what pp wrote.

Absolutely agree.  Anything less and we would be going back to the same thing that we left in the first place.
Wait, is Thork gay or does he just have a thing for lipstick?

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Offline Parsifal

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2014, 06:03:05 AM »
Thanks for staying on track and having a productive discussion, everyone. I'm going to wait at least 48 hours from the date of the OP, just to make sure everyone gets time to have their say, before proceeding any further.

For the people who posted early on, feel free to present your thoughts on pizaaplanet's revised statement.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Offline Gayer

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2014, 08:59:43 AM »
I think Tom's argument could be diluted and made more appealing to the other side without removing much substance from it. How about something along these lines:

Daniel can be our leader, there's no problem with that. He can lead projects when he's around (hopefully often) and drive the society forward. What's important is that we have a structure to continue driving the society when he's not around. This could (should?) be periodically elected to try and minimise standstills.

I feel that this covers all bases. Daniel isn't just a figurehead, unless he's gone, in which case he is being deputised by a group of dedicated volunteers. His absence would not stand in our way, but he could still do everything he currently does. From my point of view (except for technical issues), when Daniel is around, he's doing a good job. It strikes me as reasonable that he should continue doing this job. It's just that when he disappears, the Society shouldn't suddenly come to a stop - and that's where direct member involvement could go a very long way.
Sounds good to me

Thork

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2014, 09:51:40 AM »
I just don't see the point. Daniel isn't going to change. He'll continue to be ever-absent. If he is in any way an obstacle after a re-unification, it is pointless to go back. Hey, we aren't doing so bad. We are killing them at social media and with a few additional changes such as membership and T-shirts, we'll get some good momentum going. Its Daniel that has the problem right now. Not us. Lets see what if anything he is willing to concede before we give away the independence we worked so hard to achieve.


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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2014, 10:49:23 AM »
I just don't see the point. Daniel isn't going to change. He'll continue to be ever-absent. If he is in any way an obstacle after a re-unification, it is pointless to go back. Hey, we aren't doing so bad. We are killing them at social media and with a few additional changes such as membership and T-shirts, we'll get some good momentum going. Its Daniel that has the problem right now. Not us. Lets see what if anything he is willing to concede before we give away the independence we worked so hard to achieve.

If he is absent then he won't prevent the Council from doing what needs to get done.

Thork

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2014, 10:53:07 AM »
I just don't think we need him. He doesn't offer much.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2014, 11:10:34 AM »
I just don't think we need him. He doesn't offer much.

Neither does the Queen of England. If Daniel wants to be the Queen of England, he can be Queen. That's fine in my book.

As long as Parliament can do what needs to get done, it doesn't matter if the Queen is an absent ruler. Everyone knows she's a running joke. If Daniel doesn't want to be a running joke then he should try hard not to be a figurehead like the Queen is. The choice of being a figurehead or a leader is entirely up to him.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 11:29:02 AM by Tom Bishop »

Thork

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2014, 11:24:15 AM »
The Queen of England is hardly a running joke. She is one of the wealthiest people on the planet and hides her wealth behind the Bank of England nominees. She has the power to dissolve parliament, is head of our armed forces and has the power of veto over any law parliament wishes to pass. Lets not make Daniel quite that important.

I just don't see why he should be figurehead any more? He doesn't do anything to warrant it. We don't need him. 

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2014, 11:39:07 AM »
The Queen of England is hardly a running joke. She is one of the wealthiest people on the planet and hides her wealth behind the Bank of England nominees. She has the power to dissolve parliament, is head of our armed forces and has the power of veto over any law parliament wishes to pass. Lets not make Daniel quite that important.

I just don't see why he should be figurehead any more? He doesn't do anything to warrant it. We don't need him.

Daniel owns the site, which is #1 in Google. That is equivalent to your analogy of the queen's wealth making her important and deserving.

We are already enemies with virtually every country on earth and you want us to go off on an island somewhere to make our own competing country with the name of England. That seems less desirable than joining forces with England to make her a better country.

It doesn't matter if Daniel is around or not. The leaders of the Flat Earth Society will make themselves apparent. Respect is earned, not granted with a title. I doubt he cares to object to the community projects and things we want to organize.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 06:58:20 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline markjo

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2014, 02:28:30 PM »
I just don't think we need him. He doesn't offer much.
He offers an FES site that actually discusses FET.  I realize that discussing FET doesn't interest you, but isn't spreading the word kinda the point?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 02:30:51 PM by markjo »
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline spoon

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2014, 03:09:35 PM »
I like what PP posted.
inb4 Blanko spoons a literally pizza

Thork

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2014, 03:31:15 PM »
I just don't think we need him. He doesn't offer much.
He offers an FES site that actually discusses FET.  I realize that discussing FET doesn't interest you, but isn't spreading the word kinda the point?
Why do you come here then? Go discuss FET at theflatearthsociety.org. You can keep moaning at me, but I don't care if I'm not entertaining you. That's not why I come here. All you ever do is moan and criticise. You never contribute anything.

The Queen of England is hardly a running joke. She is one of the wealthiest people on the planet and hides her wealth behind the Bank of England nominees. She has the power to dissolve parliament, is head of our armed forces and has the power of veto over any law parliament wishes to pass. Lets not make Daniel quite that important.

I just don't see why he should be figurehead any more? He doesn't do anything to warrant it. We don't need him.

Daniel owns the site, which is #1 in Google. That is equivalent to your analogy of the queen's wealth making her important and deserving.

We are already enemies with virtually every country on earth and you want us to go off on an island somewhere to make our own competing country with the name of England. That seems less desirable than joining forces with England to make her a better country.

It doesn't matter if Daniel is there with us or not. The leaders of the Flat Earth Society will make themselves apparent. Respect is earned, not granted with a title. I doubt he cares to object to the community projects and things we want to organize.
And like England, the empire is disintegrating. He won't rank #1 for long. We will make up the ground. The main reason he ranks higher is because he has the search terms in the domain name. tfes.org is not doing us any favours as a domain name.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 03:33:33 PM by Thork »

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Offline Foxbox

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2014, 04:35:31 PM »
I also agree with what pp posted.

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Offline markjo

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2014, 05:48:25 PM »
I just don't think we need him. He doesn't offer much.
He offers an FES site that actually discusses FET.  I realize that discussing FET doesn't interest you, but isn't spreading the word kinda the point?
Why do you come here then?
To aggravate you.  :-*

Go discuss FET at theflatearthsociety.org.
I do. 

You can keep moaning at me, but I don't care if I'm not entertaining you. That's not why I come here.
Then why do you come here?  ???

All you ever do is moan and criticise. You never contribute anything.
Hello kettle.  Nice to meet you.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

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Offline Daniel

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Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2014, 05:55:59 PM »
I was holding back from posting in this thread initially because I felt my presence might be counterproductive.  That doesn't seem to be the case, though, so, here I am.  Hi.

For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with many of the suggestions in here in principle.  We'll have to work out the details but I generally agree with a lot of what's been said.  Having two competing websites isn't doing either site any favours.  I'd much rather have a unified Society to make better use of all of our efforts.

While theflatearthsociety.org's forums seem to be running reasonably smoothly now, we've obviously had plenty of issues (both technical and non-technical) in the past and it would have been useful to distribute power more broadly so that when these issues did arise and I wasn't able to deal with them, other people could have.  The tfes.org crew is clearly capable of keeping a forum running smoothly.  I'd be happy to concede a considerable amount of power on the forums in the interest of reunification.  I'd also be very happy to have other members of the community contributing to the front page in the form of articles, blog posts, etc.

I also appreciate the fact that most of you seem to have a genuine interest in furthering the spread of Flat Earth Theory through non-forums projects.  I love the idea of an annotated Earth Not A Globe being made available to the public.  Coincidentally, I registered earthnotaglobe.com several years ago and you're more than welcome to use that domain to host and/or promote the project if you want.

It's late here now and most of tomorrow will be spent traveling home.  I'll check in again when I'm settled back in HK.  I'm sure we'll be able to hammer out something that's acceptable for both sides.