*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 2463
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #260 on: July 03, 2020, 12:18:13 PM »
If you have no experience with the American police or forms of injustice then you really have no worthwhile insight in the topic at all. Neither does Tumeni.

I refer you back to my OP, and to the catalogue of instances of American police brutality toward the citizens who were A - peacefully protesting, and B - are the citizens who the police are supposed to serve, a catalogue which was compiled by an American Civil Defence Attorney. 

Does not matter whether I not I or others have any of the experience you cite, I defer to his experience, and his judgement on whether or not what he posted would stand up in court. He wouldn't post them without considering them valid.

In the space of one month, this catalogue accumulated over 700 instances of police brutality.

https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1278930262169137152


In other news;

A National Park Services ranger summarily executed an unarmed man for speeding.  Magically, portions of the ranger's bodycam footage disappeared.  You also see him handcuff a dead body

https://t.co/CO99Wnu7RI?amp=1
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #261 on: July 06, 2020, 12:45:40 PM »
Ok well I'll remember this the next time you chime in to a topic about rockets with your absolute lack of experience in rocket science or engineering. Worthless indeed.
Science is science.

Don't need experience to quote facts.
Yes what I wrote is a broad description. I guess you can round it down to the fact that there are any bad apples at all should not be possible. Police enforcing the law should be lawful. Some aren't and that is not acceptable. Some get found out and disciplined sure, but

A) Why were they able to become an officer in the first place and
B) What about all the ones that haven't been found out yet?
Policing is a human function filled by imperfect humans.

Your solution is, I suppose, take a freaking guess at just WHO might be the next bad guy in uniform and shoot him (something you are here whining about, claiming that the US police are doing).

Just totally hilarious!
Don't get me wrong, I don't expect every officer to have gone through law school and be the perfect specimen of human, no one is perfect, but you can find footage of some absolute moronic police officers and that shouldn't be possible. You don't need to have experienced it for yourself to see that. How can someone uphold the law while not being lawful? Why were they given such a position? How were they able to keep that position for years? How can I expect the police to protect and serve citizens if there's potentially morons with big egos in the force? These are questions I think desperately need to be answered and corrected in future. It should be progress at least ie; something needs to change.
Yeah, you want it both ways and that demonstrates you're bankrupt in this position, much worse than I previously thought.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 02:24:00 PM by totallackey »

*

Offline timterroo

  • *
  • Posts: 1052
  • domo arigato gozaimashita
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #262 on: July 06, 2020, 02:13:46 PM »
black man was arrested for dancing in the street... Wut. Why would it escalate to that point? Police are supposed to be trained to deescalate. I understand they have to investigate when someone calls them but... Cops arrive, ask the guy if everything is all good, guy says year just doing my morning routine. Cops at that point should have just stopped bothering him but instead went into restraining him, which is ridiculous. And having to have neighbours come out and vouch for you to the police is also ridiculous because he was doing nothing wrong... It's a completely bizarre exchange between the police and the guy.
 


This is absurd. Props to the dancing guy - I wouldn't have been able to keep my cool as well as he did in that situation. I would be looking to sue the police department if they did that to me. On top of humiliating the guy, they had audacity to give him a resting arrest ticket. Couldn't get him on anything else because he wasn't doing ANYTHING wrong, but because the man tried to preserve a little dignity he was guilty of resisting arrest. Surprising he didn't get shot when he reached for his car keys.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #263 on: July 06, 2020, 02:29:18 PM »
black man was arrested for dancing in the street... Wut. Why would it escalate to that point? Police are supposed to be trained to deescalate. I understand they have to investigate when someone calls them but... Cops arrive, ask the guy if everything is all good, guy says year just doing my morning routine. Cops at that point should have just stopped bothering him but instead went into restraining him, which is ridiculous. And having to have neighbours come out and vouch for you to the police is also ridiculous because he was doing nothing wrong... It's a completely bizarre exchange between the police and the guy.
 

See, you don't even understand the principles of lawful detention for the purposes of investigation and lawful arrest.

Just terrible.

*

Offline timterroo

  • *
  • Posts: 1052
  • domo arigato gozaimashita
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #264 on: July 06, 2020, 02:51:38 PM »
black man was arrested for dancing in the street... Wut. Why would it escalate to that point? Police are supposed to be trained to deescalate. I understand they have to investigate when someone calls them but... Cops arrive, ask the guy if everything is all good, guy says year just doing my morning routine. Cops at that point should have just stopped bothering him but instead went into restraining him, which is ridiculous. And having to have neighbours come out and vouch for you to the police is also ridiculous because he was doing nothing wrong... It's a completely bizarre exchange between the police and the guy.
 

See, you don't even understand the principles of lawful detention for the purposes of investigation and lawful arrest.

Just terrible.

Being questioned by police and detained by police are two different things. It went from questioning to detaining in a split second for virtually no reason.

It seems like the only course of action the man could have taken was to apologize to the officers for dancing in the street and say he was going to go home. This however would have been to accept that you do not have the freedom to dance in the street - which we do. In a residential area, it is perfectly legal to dance or do many many many other things on the street - none of which warranty a call to the police, or to be forcefully arrested and placed into a squad car.

This wasn't just a case of police "doing their jobs". They put their hands on him, when there was no sign of danger, no sign of threat. And the man didn't even try to resist by any means other than words.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #265 on: July 06, 2020, 03:05:19 PM »
Being questioned by police and detained by police are two different things. It went from questioning to detaining in a split second for virtually no reason.
LOL!!!

First, you are not required to answer any questions offered by anyone, even the police.

If the police are conducting an investigation, they can lawfully detain you in order to question you in concert with the investigation.

Prior to that questioning, you MAKE them arrest you and then you should receive what is called the Miranda Warning:

"You have the right to REMAIN silent. If you GIVE UP the right to remain silent, anything you say CAN AND WILL be held against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford...etc."
It seems like the only course of action the man could have taken was to apologize to the officers for dancing in the street and say he was going to go home. This however would have been to accept that you do not have the freedom to dance in the street - which we do. In a residential area, it is perfectly legal to dance or do many many many other things on the street - none of which warranty a call to the police, or to be forcefully arrested and placed into a squad car.
The police are called to a scene, having received a report.

They are required to report to that scene.

I know you want a world where the police just ignore all that, but that really isn't how it works.

You have an idea of what does and what doesn't warrant police investigation and/or intervention and I'm sure you realize others have their views about it also.
This wasn't just a case of police "doing their jobs". They put their hands on him, when there was no sign of danger, no sign of threat. And the man didn't even try to resist by any means other than words.
The police can put their hands on you or anyone else.

So can I or anyone else.

There are consequences to that action.

*

Offline timterroo

  • *
  • Posts: 1052
  • domo arigato gozaimashita
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #266 on: July 06, 2020, 03:27:02 PM »
It seems like the only course of action the man could have taken was to apologize to the officers for dancing in the street and say he was going to go home. This however would have been to accept that you do not have the freedom to dance in the street - which we do. In a residential area, it is perfectly legal to dance or do many many many other things on the street - none of which warranty a call to the police, or to be forcefully arrested and placed into a squad car.
The police are called to a scene, having received a report.

They are required to report to that scene.

I know you want a world where the police just ignore all that, but that really isn't how it works.

You have an idea of what does and what doesn't warrant police investigation and/or intervention and I'm sure you realize others have their views about it also.

Yes, they are required to report to the scene. They are not required to detain you.

This wasn't just a case of police "doing their jobs". They put their hands on him, when there was no sign of danger, no sign of threat. And the man didn't even try to resist by any means other than words.
The police can put their hands on you or anyone else.

So can I or anyone else.

There are consequences to that action.

Let's not get distracted by pedantry.

Police are not just allowed to touch someone, and you are not just allowed to touch someone.

Police officers must have a reason to arrest you before they touch you in any way. Any other reason to touch someone can be considered harassment. This man displayed no aggression when they grabbed his hands. Any normal person would feel violated at that point.

If you touch someone, you are more likely to be charged with harassment because you do not get the same benefit of doubt that police officers are awarded.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #267 on: July 06, 2020, 03:37:08 PM »
It seems like the only course of action the man could have taken was to apologize to the officers for dancing in the street and say he was going to go home. This however would have been to accept that you do not have the freedom to dance in the street - which we do. In a residential area, it is perfectly legal to dance or do many many many other things on the street - none of which warranty a call to the police, or to be forcefully arrested and placed into a squad car.
The police are called to a scene, having received a report.

They are required to report to that scene.

I know you want a world where the police just ignore all that, but that really isn't how it works.

You have an idea of what does and what doesn't warrant police investigation and/or intervention and I'm sure you realize others have their views about it also.

Yes, they are required to report to the scene. They are not required to detain you.
They are if they believe there is something to detain you for.

And that is their call.

Not yours.
This wasn't just a case of police "doing their jobs". They put their hands on him, when there was no sign of danger, no sign of threat. And the man didn't even try to resist by any means other than words.
The police can put their hands on you or anyone else.

So can I or anyone else.

There are consequences to that action.

Let's not get distracted by pedantry.
Funny, I am not the one getting distracted by pedantry, you are.

I am stating facts, you are not.
Police are not just allowed to touch someone, and you are not just allowed to touch someone.
Good thing I never wrote this.

What is bad, however, is your ability to interpret simple English and relatively straightforward language.
Police officers must have a reason to arrest you before they touch you in any way.
Horse hockey.
 
Any other reason to touch someone can be considered harassment. This man displayed no aggression when they grabbed his hands. Any normal person would feel violated at that point.
Any normal person wouldn't be dancing in the street.
If you touch someone, you are more likely to be charged with harassment because you do not get the same benefit of doubt that police officers are awarded.
It is good you can post a likelihood.

Now if we can just proceed to reality.

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 2463
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #268 on: July 06, 2020, 03:51:46 PM »
Don't need experience to quote facts.

Don't need experience of US policing to quote videos which show them brutalising the citizens they are supposed to protect and serve.
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

*

Offline timterroo

  • *
  • Posts: 1052
  • domo arigato gozaimashita
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #269 on: July 06, 2020, 04:00:02 PM »
It seems like the only course of action the man could have taken was to apologize to the officers for dancing in the street and say he was going to go home. This however would have been to accept that you do not have the freedom to dance in the street - which we do. In a residential area, it is perfectly legal to dance or do many many many other things on the street - none of which warranty a call to the police, or to be forcefully arrested and placed into a squad car.
The police are called to a scene, having received a report.

They are required to report to that scene.

I know you want a world where the police just ignore all that, but that really isn't how it works.

You have an idea of what does and what doesn't warrant police investigation and/or intervention and I'm sure you realize others have their views about it also.

Yes, they are required to report to the scene. They are not required to detain you.
They are if they believe there is something to detain you for.

And that is their call.

Not yours.


Right, and this is exactly why it is being called into question. Did the police officers make the right decision? Was there any 'real' reason to detain him? What if he were white?

The fact that you ignore these questions might explain why you see things in binary.

This wasn't just a case of police "doing their jobs". They put their hands on him, when there was no sign of danger, no sign of threat. And the man didn't even try to resist by any means other than words.
The police can put their hands on you or anyone else.

So can I or anyone else.

There are consequences to that action.

Let's not get distracted by pedantry.
Funny, I am not the one getting distracted by pedantry, you are.

I am stating facts, you are not.

Your pedantic facts are deliberately misleading and taking away from the point I was making. And you even acknowledge this when you state the next post of

Quote
Good thing I never wrote this.

What was the point in stating a fact that has literally nothing to do with the argument? Glad you are able to touch someone.... your hands work, good job. Now let's get back to the point.

Police are not just allowed to touch someone, and you are not just allowed to touch someone.
What is bad, however, is your ability to interpret simple English and relatively straightforward language.

You seem to have the inability to interpret simple logic, so there's that.

Police officers must have a reason to arrest you before they touch you in any way.
Horse hockey.
 
Any other reason to touch someone can be considered harassment. This man displayed no aggression when they grabbed his hands. Any normal person would feel violated at that point.
Any normal person wouldn't be dancing in the street.

Really? That sounds like a pretty rigid view on life - I feel sorry for you.

If you touch someone, you are more likely to be charged with harassment because you do not get the same benefit of doubt that police officers are awarded.
It is good you can post a likelihood.

Now if we can just proceed to reality.

I cringe at the thought of what you consider reality.
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #270 on: July 06, 2020, 04:06:58 PM »
Don't need experience to quote facts.

Don't need experience of US policing to quote videos which show them brutalising the citizens they are supposed to protect and serve.
Yeah, it happens.

Yeah, I will still take these instances, knowing that justice will ultimately be served in the long run for all concerned.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that you would have no clue about policing anywhere, let alone the US.

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #271 on: July 06, 2020, 04:11:39 PM »
It seems like the only course of action the man could have taken was to apologize to the officers for dancing in the street and say he was going to go home. This however would have been to accept that you do not have the freedom to dance in the street - which we do. In a residential area, it is perfectly legal to dance or do many many many other things on the street - none of which warranty a call to the police, or to be forcefully arrested and placed into a squad car.
The police are called to a scene, having received a report.

They are required to report to that scene.

I know you want a world where the police just ignore all that, but that really isn't how it works.

You have an idea of what does and what doesn't warrant police investigation and/or intervention and I'm sure you realize others have their views about it also.

Yes, they are required to report to the scene. They are not required to detain you.
They are if they believe there is something to detain you for.

And that is their call.

Not yours.


Right, and this is exactly why it is being called into question. Did the police officers make the right decision? Was there any 'real' reason to detain him? What if he were white?
They did make the right decision until someone in authority says otherwise.
The fact that you ignore these questions might explain why you see things in binary.
Nice try.
This wasn't just a case of police "doing their jobs". They put their hands on him, when there was no sign of danger, no sign of threat. And the man didn't even try to resist by any means other than words.
The police can put their hands on you or anyone else.

So can I or anyone else.

There are consequences to that action.

Let's not get distracted by pedantry.
Funny, I am not the one getting distracted by pedantry, you are.

I am stating facts, you are not.

Your pedantic facts are deliberately misleading and taking away from the point I was making. And you even acknowledge this when you state the next post of

Quote
Good thing I never wrote this.

What was the point in stating a fact that has literally nothing to do with the argument? Glad you are able to touch someone.... your hands work, good job. Now let's get back to the point.
If you had a point, it would be there.

I demolished it, using simple language, which you, naturally do not like because your supposed point relies on fluff and Ala Kazaam for effect.
Police are not just allowed to touch someone, and you are not just allowed to touch someone.
What is bad, however, is your ability to interpret simple English and relatively straightforward language.

You seem to have the inability to interpret simple logic, so there's that.
Logic requires reality.

Absent in your interpretation.
Police officers must have a reason to arrest you before they touch you in any way.
Horse hockey.
 
Any other reason to touch someone can be considered harassment. This man displayed no aggression when they grabbed his hands. Any normal person would feel violated at that point.
Any normal person wouldn't be dancing in the street.

Really? That sounds like a pretty rigid view on life - I feel sorry for you.
LOL!
If you touch someone, you are more likely to be charged with harassment because you do not get the same benefit of doubt that police officers are awarded.
It is good you can post a likelihood.

Now if we can just proceed to reality.

I cringe at the thought of what you consider reality.
Yeah.

No doubt.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 11:53:36 AM by totallackey »

*

Offline timterroo

  • *
  • Posts: 1052
  • domo arigato gozaimashita
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #272 on: July 06, 2020, 04:16:36 PM »
Don't need experience to quote facts.

Don't need experience of US policing to quote videos which show them brutalising the citizens they are supposed to protect and serve.
Yeah, it happens.

Yeah, I will still take these instances, knowing that justice will ultimately be served in the long run for all concerned.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that you would have no clue about policing anywhere, let alone the US.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that your reality exists in-so-far-as your nose goes.

You really should stop posting.... on the other hand, the entertainment level is clearly up because of you - good job.... I guess?
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 2463
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #273 on: July 06, 2020, 04:19:59 PM »
One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that you would have no clue about policing anywhere, let alone the US.

Even if you're right about this, so what?

 
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12621
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #274 on: July 06, 2020, 04:21:18 PM »
Even if you're right about this, so what?
Well, it would be a good idea to figure out how it works before declaring it to not be working. Your strategy of just rapid-firing criticisms and hoping that some of them won't be completely ludicrous is not a persuasive one.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 2463
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #275 on: July 06, 2020, 04:34:52 PM »
...and after umpteen pages, I refer you back to Tom's assertion, similar to yours and TL's, which he made at Reply #6, and to my response to his at #8.
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #276 on: July 07, 2020, 10:16:17 AM »
Don't need experience to quote facts.

Don't need experience of US policing to quote videos which show them brutalising the citizens they are supposed to protect and serve.
Yeah, it happens.

Yeah, I will still take these instances, knowing that justice will ultimately be served in the long run for all concerned.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that you would have no clue about policing anywhere, let alone the US.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that your reality exists in-so-far-as your nose goes.

You really should stop posting.... on the other hand, the entertainment level is clearly up because of you - good job.... I guess?
People generally tend to find the posting of facts and science to be informative and entertaining.

Here is another series of facts.

In areas like Chicago, Seattle, New York, and DC, where the protests and calls for defunding the police are loudest, they are experiencing the largest rates of gun violence and murders, predominately committed by otherwise peaceful black citizens upon other peaceful black citizens.

Not surprisingly, these areas also have the most strict gun control laws in the country.

I am happy to be able to provide these facts on the forum, in order to fill the void as it were.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 10:50:55 AM by totallackey »

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 2463
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #277 on: July 07, 2020, 04:17:34 PM »
In areas like Chicago, Seattle, New York, and DC, where the protests and calls for defunding the police are loudest, they are experiencing the largest rates of gun violence and murders, predominately committed by otherwise peaceful black citizens upon other peaceful black citizens.

Since no defunding has taken place, does that not suggest to you that overfunded police forces aren't actually successful?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

*

Offline timterroo

  • *
  • Posts: 1052
  • domo arigato gozaimashita
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #278 on: July 07, 2020, 05:09:01 PM »
Don't need experience to quote facts.

Don't need experience of US policing to quote videos which show them brutalising the citizens they are supposed to protect and serve.
Yeah, it happens.

Yeah, I will still take these instances, knowing that justice will ultimately be served in the long run for all concerned.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that you would have no clue about policing anywhere, let alone the US.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that your reality exists in-so-far-as your nose goes.

You really should stop posting.... on the other hand, the entertainment level is clearly up because of you - good job.... I guess?
People generally tend to find the posting of facts and science to be informative and entertaining.
That's true, you should try it sometime.


Here is another series of facts.

In areas like Chicago, Seattle, New York, and DC, where the protests and calls for defunding the police are loudest, they are experiencing the largest rates of gun violence and murders, predominately committed by otherwise peaceful black citizens upon other peaceful black citizens.

Not surprisingly, these areas also have the most strict gun control laws in the country.

I am happy to be able to provide these facts on the forum, in order to fill the void as it were.

Again, supposed "facts" that you do not back up with any supporting evidence. And you say I'm blowing, what was it you said, "fluff and ala kazaam"?
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #279 on: July 07, 2020, 07:16:50 PM »
Don't need experience to quote facts.

Don't need experience of US policing to quote videos which show them brutalising the citizens they are supposed to protect and serve.
Yeah, it happens.

Yeah, I will still take these instances, knowing that justice will ultimately be served in the long run for all concerned.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that you would have no clue about policing anywhere, let alone the US.

One thing clearly demonstrated by this thread is that your reality exists in-so-far-as your nose goes.

You really should stop posting.... on the other hand, the entertainment level is clearly up because of you - good job.... I guess?
People generally tend to find the posting of facts and science to be informative and entertaining.
That's true, you should try it sometime.
On a steady and consistent basis, intending to continue as long as I have the strength.

Here is another series of facts.

In areas like Chicago, Seattle, New York, and DC, where the protests and calls for defunding the police are loudest, they are experiencing the largest rates of gun violence and murders, predominately committed by otherwise peaceful black citizens upon other peaceful black citizens.

Not surprisingly, these areas also have the most strict gun control laws in the country.

I am happy to be able to provide these facts on the forum, in order to fill the void as it were.

Again, supposed "facts" that you do not back up with any supporting evidence. And you say I'm blowing, what was it you said, "fluff and ala kazaam"?
Yep.

Try the internet. It is wonderful.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 07:54:49 PM by totallackey »