*

Offline Roundy

  • Abdicator of the Zetetic Council
  • *
  • Posts: 2518
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #200 on: June 19, 2020, 10:06:58 PM »
I mean, I don't know why you framed that like I was arguing, I agree with you. They should have known better than to be born in a disadvantaged position, if they were smart they would have been born to parents rich enough to send them to Yale. Those people aren't murdered by the cops when they're arrested for the crimes they commit like embezzling billions of dollars or whatnot. They get a nice cushy sentence in a country club.

But steal a pack of cigarettes and you're just asking to be murdered.

Ah yes, armed robbery is the same as stealing a pack of cigarettes.

No, it isn't. If the cops were just killing armed robbers we wouldn't be having a conversation about the cops killing unarmed black people, so strawman much?
Go kicking and screaming, lol, it all means the same on January 21st.

Before this is over I'm betting you eat those landslide words :)

Another gullible, delusional "Independent" ::)

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7279
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #201 on: June 19, 2020, 10:09:18 PM »
I mean, I don't know why you framed that like I was arguing, I agree with you. They should have known better than to be born in a disadvantaged position, if they were smart they would have been born to parents rich enough to send them to Yale. Those people aren't murdered by the cops when they're arrested for the crimes they commit like embezzling billions of dollars or whatnot. They get a nice cushy sentence in a country club.

But steal a pack of cigarettes and you're just asking to be murdered.

Ah yes, armed robbery is the same as stealing a pack of cigarettes.

No, it isn't. If the cops were just killing armed robbers we wouldn't be having a conversation about the cops killing unarmed black people, so strawman much?

Sounds like you're the one making straw men here, because I didn't saying anything about whether it's okay to kill unarmed men (regardless of whether they're black or not). I suggest actually reading my posts in the future instead of making pointless "oh no no no I agree with you" charade posts.

*

Offline Roundy

  • Abdicator of the Zetetic Council
  • *
  • Posts: 2518
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #202 on: June 19, 2020, 10:13:38 PM »
I mean, I don't know why you framed that like I was arguing, I agree with you. They should have known better than to be born in a disadvantaged position, if they were smart they would have been born to parents rich enough to send them to Yale. Those people aren't murdered by the cops when they're arrested for the crimes they commit like embezzling billions of dollars or whatnot. They get a nice cushy sentence in a country club.

But steal a pack of cigarettes and you're just asking to be murdered.

Ah yes, armed robbery is the same as stealing a pack of cigarettes.

No, it isn't. If the cops were just killing armed robbers we wouldn't be having a conversation about the cops killing unarmed black people, so strawman much?

Sounds like you're the one making straw men here, because I didn't saying anything about whether it's okay to kill unarmed men (regardless of whether they're black or not). I suggest actually reading my posts in the future instead of making pointless "oh no no no I agree with you" charade posts.

Well if your only point is that it's sometimes justified for the cops to kill somebody who's just committed armed robbery I don't think anybody here really disagrees with you, but I'm having trouble seeing why you felt it necessary to make that point since nobody was ever arguing against it.

So what was your point?   ???
Go kicking and screaming, lol, it all means the same on January 21st.

Before this is over I'm betting you eat those landslide words :)

Another gullible, delusional "Independent" ::)

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 2446
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #203 on: June 19, 2020, 10:16:29 PM »
It's usually what leads up to the killings.

... based on what metric, data or statistics?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

*

Offline Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 7398
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #204 on: June 19, 2020, 10:20:48 PM »
I was reading a paper (ironically from Yale) on racial bias in police interactions. Interestingly, police shootings were the one interaction they couldn’t find a statistically significant racial bias.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7279
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #205 on: June 19, 2020, 10:27:17 PM »
It's usually what leads up to the killings.

... based on what metric, data or statistics?

If that question were asked more often, BLM would currently not exist.

*

Offline Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 7398
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #206 on: June 19, 2020, 11:41:58 PM »
It's usually what leads up to the killings.

... based on what metric, data or statistics?

If that question were asked more often, BLM would currently not exist.

There is data to show that black people are over represented in police violence when you control for a variety of factors. This isn’t all tilting at windmills.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Offline ChrisTP

  • *
  • Posts: 926
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #207 on: June 20, 2020, 12:09:05 AM »
I mean, I don't know why you framed that like I was arguing, I agree with you. They should have known better than to be born in a disadvantaged position, if they were smart they would have been born to parents rich enough to send them to Yale. Those people aren't murdered by the cops when they're arrested for the crimes they commit like embezzling billions of dollars or whatnot. They get a nice cushy sentence in a country club.

But steal a pack of cigarettes and you're just asking to be murdered.

Ah yes, armed robbery is the same as stealing a pack of cigarettes. Here's another show-stopper: crime rates don't correlate to poverty rates. Being born poor doesn't magically make you run around pointing guns at people and demanding their money.
I partly don't disagree with what you've been saying in that people who get in trouble with police have tended to be the kind of person that would indeed get into trouble with the police. If you are a low life criminal that beats his girlfriends and neglects his kids, who steals and does drugs then sure, you are more likely to be involved in implications with the police. Though I guess part of the problem is if you grow up with all the people around you assuming you're going to be like that, you're going to end up like it. This is where the problem with racism kind of comes in because no one is born a criminal, they are raised into that life. They're discriminated against and treated differently, raised by parents who were also discriminated against and treated differently. It's entirely environmental and obviously if you treat white people that way they end up the same way too. The problem is when people by default treat black people with suspicion it ends up a self fulfilling prophecy.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

*

Offline timterroo

  • *
  • Posts: 1052
  • domo arigato gozaimashita
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #208 on: June 20, 2020, 01:33:07 AM »
Inner-city marginalization accounts for a large percentage of criminal activity. Impoverished communities without resources for schools, community centers, and stable infrastructure.

As we have established, criminals aren't born, they are made. Poor communities without means for education, nor the resources to provide blue-collar jobs for those who cannot get educated leads to a cycle of crime, drug dealing, prostitution and violence. It turns out that poor communities can feed their children with money made from dealing drugs.

Society allows for a situation to exist that reinforces and legitimizes the underground criminal activity, and then it blames them for being violent drug dealing criminals.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 01:35:24 AM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

*

Offline timterroo

  • *
  • Posts: 1052
  • domo arigato gozaimashita
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #209 on: June 20, 2020, 02:07:54 AM »
@totallackey

With regards to police training - since you are so keen on it - let's not forget that it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away - don't you think that would apply to a gun as well? Police officers are also trained to give medical assistance to someone they have just shot - this officer just stood on him.
I have no clue where you got the idea that it is against Atlanta Police Department procedures to shoot someone who has a taser.

You conveniently ignored the latter part of the statement, so I'll restate it for you, only bolded this time:

"it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away.

The man was shot in the back.
Really quite the chuckle from this...

Kindly post the policy...directly and put your own emphasis on those exact words as written in policy.

You know..."It is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away..."...that portion.

I will let you know right now I am sending you on a snipe hunt, as you will not find that in the Atlanta Police Department Policy Manual or SOP manual.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/atlanta-police-force-policy-violated-multiple-times-fatal/story?id=71295429

From the words of the district attorney:

"The Atlanta policy says you cannot fire a Taser at someone who is running away. So you certainly can't fire a handgun at someone who is running away," Howard said.

I guess he is just the attorney who represents the state of Georgia, so what does he know?

You're also just ignoring the rest of the facts.

1. The officer never informed Rayshard he was under arrest.

2. The police officer kicked Rayshard AFTER he shot him.

3. The police officer stood on Rayshard AFTER he shot him.

If the officer shot him solely because he felt he was a threat, why did he also feel the need to kick and stand on him afterwards rather than give him medical attention?
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 02:18:33 AM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

*

Offline timterroo

  • *
  • Posts: 1052
  • domo arigato gozaimashita
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #210 on: June 20, 2020, 02:28:47 AM »
I wonder how much more this has to escalate before americans form a militia against the government just like their amendment allows for

It's already happened:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/inside-seattles-autonomous-zone-residents-enact-change/story?id=71295394

Protestors have taken over a 6-block radius which also contains a police department. They are going all out 2nd amendment style.

Edit:

After some further reading, it seems clear there is a ton of misinformation about the so-called "autonomous zone".... here's an article that seems to be less-biased....

https://slate.com/technology/2020/06/seattle-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-occupied-protest.html

and another...

https://grist.org/ask-umbra/what-is-seattles-autonomous-zone-trying-to-do/

« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 02:46:52 AM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 2446
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #211 on: June 20, 2020, 10:28:38 AM »
NYPD EA openly accuses Shake Shack of poisoning their officers, walks back the accusation barely 12 hours later, but their website, days afterward, STILL has the accusation posted, and they've made no apology to Shake Shack for their false allegation and public smearing.

Their summary includes weasel words to distance themselves from the fact that THEY accused, using "It was reported ..." as opposed to 'fessing up with "We falsely accused someone of ...."

Am I the only one thinking that they're trying to get payback at someone who won't pay their protection racket?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Offline ChrisTP

  • *
  • Posts: 926
    • View Profile
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 2446
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #213 on: June 22, 2020, 07:48:41 AM »
Columbus, Ohio - police have pepper-sprayed a double amputee, and then removed both his prosthetic legs. He had to crawl on his hands to get help, and a group of protestors had to rush the police line to grab them back.

T. Greg Doucette's Twitter thread of documented police brutality is now at almost 600 instances. As he says; "I did not have "stealing an amputee's prosthetics" on my Depraved Cop Sh*t bingo card"

In other news in Columbus, the Mayor announced that the police would no longer be using tear gas; in a polite and "respectful" letter, the Fraternal Order of Police, Capital City Lodge #9 has basically told the Mayor to take his "unilateral decision" and go f*ck himself, and they'll carry on doing what they did in training ....



 
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #214 on: June 22, 2020, 08:16:49 AM »
Inner-city marginalization accounts for a large percentage of criminal activity. Impoverished communities without resources for schools, community centers, and stable infrastructure.
Right. And people in such areas are disproportionately black and that's because of historic racist laws which prevented black people buying property in certain areas and stopped them getting mortgages on property in other areas. And that's why black people get profiled, not because of rampant racism, but because of crime statistics.
Which isn't to say racism isn't a thing, racism is an issue, police brutality is an issue - but let's get away from this myth that police in the US are running around indiscriminately gunning down black people. That just isn't true, it's something like 14 black people and 25 white who were unarmed and killed by police in 2019. And many of those were when the people were fleeing the scene.
This idea that a black person needs to fear for their life because of a systematically racist police force just isn't true if you look at the numbers.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #215 on: June 22, 2020, 09:50:42 AM »
As a matter of fact, even if the police in the US killed 1000 a year more of the people they deal with on a day to day basis, I would perceive police in the US as being of more benefit to society as a whole than those who died could ever hope to contribute.
Literally what?

Alright, lol there's just no point. You clearly just hate people unless they put on a cop uniform. There's no reasonable way to think like this - wanting to uphold the useless and ineffective murder force over actually trying to fix shitty systems in place that create petty criminals and continues to push down petty criminals. Rich white dudes don't have to worry about the police or any crimes they commit.
LOL!
Since you hate "criminals" so much, I'd think you'd be very interested in programs that help communities and children succeed which would ACTUALLY cut down on crime rates. Cops are just there so that people with blinders on can look the other way and be glad that the drunk black man is gone.
Yeah, there are no programs in place...totally non-existent.
Your theoretical life of criminal "shitbags" roaming the streets is just your fantasy but cops murdering people is real and a huge fucking problem. But I'm done. You're clearly just a weird fascist troll or something.
Yep, there is nothing to these reports coming from Chicago or other urban areas...

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #216 on: June 22, 2020, 09:56:24 AM »
@totallackey

With regards to police training - since you are so keen on it - let's not forget that it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away - don't you think that would apply to a gun as well? Police officers are also trained to give medical assistance to someone they have just shot - this officer just stood on him.
I have no clue where you got the idea that it is against Atlanta Police Department procedures to shoot someone who has a taser.

You conveniently ignored the latter part of the statement, so I'll restate it for you, only bolded this time:

"it is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away.

The man was shot in the back.
Really quite the chuckle from this...

Kindly post the policy...directly and put your own emphasis on those exact words as written in policy.

You know..."It is AGAINST Atlanta police policy to shoot someone with a taser while they are running away..."...that portion.

I will let you know right now I am sending you on a snipe hunt, as you will not find that in the Atlanta Police Department Policy Manual or SOP manual.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/atlanta-police-force-policy-violated-multiple-times-fatal/story?id=71295429

From the words of the district attorney:

"The Atlanta policy says you cannot fire a Taser at someone who is running away. So you certainly can't fire a handgun at someone who is running away," Howard said.
He is a liar.

No thing like that written in the SOP.
I guess he is just the attorney who represents the state of Georgia, so what does he know?
Not fucking much.
You're also just ignoring the rest of the facts.

1. The officer never informed Rayshard he was under arrest.
Yeah, he did.

2. The police officer kicked Rayshard AFTER he shot him.
No, he didn't.
3. The police officer stood on Rayshard AFTER he shot him.
Why?
If the officer shot him solely because he felt he was a threat, why did he also feel the need to kick and stand on him afterwards rather than give him medical attention?
Never kicked him, stop lying.

They performed CPR and called paramedics.

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 2446
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #217 on: June 22, 2020, 10:34:21 AM »
From the words of the district attorney:

"The Atlanta policy says you cannot fire a Taser at someone who is running away. So you certainly can't fire a handgun at someone who is running away," Howard said.

He is a liar.

I guess he is just the attorney who represents the state of Georgia, so what does he know?

Not fucking much.

USA Today spoke with four law professors on the Brooks case

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/17/rayshard-brooks-video-legal-experts-analyze-key-moments-shooting/3202332001/

Are there any Law Professors here?

From the USA Today article

"At one point, about 38 minutes into the encounter, Brooks asks if he can lock his car and walk to his sister’s house a short distance away.  ...  Up to that point, police had not administered a breathalyzer test. "

Can there be any valid reason for the officers to spend almost 40 minutes with this man PRIOR TO conducting the breath test?

Think about it. Forty minutes. Why would they do that?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 10:38:14 AM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

totallackey

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #218 on: June 22, 2020, 11:51:52 AM »
From the words of the district attorney:

"The Atlanta policy says you cannot fire a Taser at someone who is running away. So you certainly can't fire a handgun at someone who is running away," Howard said.

He is a liar.

I guess he is just the attorney who represents the state of Georgia, so what does he know?

Not fucking much.

USA Today spoke with four law professors on the Brooks case

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/17/rayshard-brooks-video-legal-experts-analyze-key-moments-shooting/3202332001/

Are there any Law Professors here?

From the USA Today article

"At one point, about 38 minutes into the encounter, Brooks asks if he can lock his car and walk to his sister’s house a short distance away.  ...  Up to that point, police had not administered a breathalyzer test. "

Can there be any valid reason for the officers to spend almost 40 minutes with this man PRIOR TO conducting the breath test?

Think about it. Forty minutes. Why would they do that?
Have you seen the 40 minutes?

Watch the entire tape.

Get back with us.

Further, reading just the first few paragraphs of that BS article reveals your legal experts to be frauds.

Searches do not totally remove the possibility of a suspect being armed and police are trained to treat everyone as being armed during apprehension.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 12:57:05 PM by totallackey »

*

Offline Tumeni

  • *
  • Posts: 2446
    • View Profile
Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #219 on: June 22, 2020, 12:06:28 PM »
Can there be any valid reason for the officers to spend almost 40 minutes with this man PRIOR TO conducting the breath test?
Think about it. Forty minutes. Why would they do that?

Have you seen the 40 minutes?

Watch the entire tape.

Are you saying there was a valid reason to talk for almost 40 minutes before performing the breath test?

What would that reason be?

EDIT - Regardless of what was said to him, this is a process that could and should be wrapped up within minutes. The officers should know within that time if they're going to do a breath test or not. Once that's decided, they should go ahead and do it. 5 mins? 10?

Maybe half an hour to do the paperwork AFTER the breath test is done, but what reason is there to gossip for almost 40 minutes before?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 12:15:09 PM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?