#### AllAroundTheWorld

• 3120
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #100 on: February 20, 2020, 01:26:44 PM »
The video you just showed would have the moon rising in the west and setting in the east. Do you have a video that the moon would rise in the east and set in the west while the shadow goes from west to east.
That is explained in the thread I linked to above.
And yes, I did notice that the shadow - the umbra - was smaller than the orange. And the "to scale" model at the end shows how small the umbra is compared to the penumbra.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

#### Tumeni

• 1875
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #101 on: February 20, 2020, 03:29:23 PM »
The video you just showed would have the moon rising in the west and setting in the east. Do you have a video that the moon would rise in the east and set in the west while the shadow goes from west to east.

See my diagram above.

All the speeds and other figures are discussed at length in the other thread referred to above.
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Jay Seneca

• 60
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #102 on: February 20, 2020, 04:11:23 PM »
The video you just showed would have the moon rising in the west and setting in the east. Do you have a video that the moon would rise in the east and set in the west while the shadow goes from west to east.
That is explained in the thread I linked to above.
And yes, I did notice that the shadow - the umbra - was smaller than the orange. And the "to scale" model at the end shows how small the umbra is compared to the penumbra.

To have a UMBRA the moon, sun, and earth have to be in a straight line. That means it would have to be mid-day.  On a RE that’s the only way possible. The movement of the shadow is because of the Earths spin.  Not because the moon is traveling.  If I’m on earth looking east it takes Earth 6 hours to turn 90 degrees to the north. If the moon is east of earth it takes 7 days to get to the same north of earth. So the earth spins 28x’s faster than that is what the moon is going around earth.  Not speed wise but going from north to west to south to east.
And go outside at mid-day on a sunny day and put your hand a foot above the ground and see how many shadows you have and if the shadow is 30x’s smaller than your hand. Like on a eclipse. Give you a hint. It’s not.  You will have 1 shadow the same tint and it will be bigger than your hand.

#### Jay Seneca

• 60
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #103 on: February 20, 2020, 04:19:48 PM »
Also try to make a shadow with 2 light sources. That’s what the eclipse they show us looks like. 2 layers of shadow just like the videos.  Now turn one light off and then you have what a eclipse is suppose to look like on a RE.

#### Tumeni

• 1875
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #104 on: February 20, 2020, 08:27:42 PM »
The video you just showed would have the moon rising in the west and setting in the east. Do you have a video that the moon would rise in the east and set in the west while the shadow goes from west to east.
That is explained in the thread I linked to above.
And yes, I did notice that the shadow - the umbra - was smaller than the orange. And the "to scale" model at the end shows how small the umbra is compared to the penumbra.

The movement of the shadow is because of the Earths spin.  Not because the moon is traveling.  If I’m on earth looking east it takes Earth 6 hours to turn 90 degrees to the north. If the moon is east of earth it takes 7 days to get to the same north of earth. So the earth spins 28x’s faster than that is what the moon is going around earth.  Not speed wise ....

Post #94 again, please. You're focusing the Moon's behaviour, not the shadow's. The shadow is what causes the eclipse to be seen on Earth, so you need to focus on that ...
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Tumeni

• 1875
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #105 on: February 21, 2020, 03:36:40 PM »
If I’m on earth looking east it takes Earth 6 hours to turn 90 degrees to the north. If the moon is east of earth it takes 7 days to get to the same north of earth. So the earth spins 28x’s faster than that is what the moon is going around earth.

Yes, you move from E1 to E2 in approx 6 hours, the Moon moves from M1 to M2 in 7 days, so the Moon lags behind Earth rotation, leading it to move across the observer's sky from East to West.

But that's not what the Moon's shadow does, and it's the shadow that we're concerned with

It doesn't matter how long the Moon takes to get to M2, for it is not casting a shadow on Earth at that time. The shadow is cast in a straight line to the left of this graphic, a continuation of the line between Sun and Moon. The shadow crosses a distance in space roughly equal to Earth diameter - call this distance D, moving from point D1 to D2, upward in this graphic.

Since the Moon crosses this area of space faster than any point on Earth's surface is moving, the shadow moves from West to East. The shadow is crossing this area of space at 2000mph+, with the fastest point on Earth moving at linear speed less than 1000 mph. That gives the shadow a 1000mph+ speed from West to East.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 03:52:15 PM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Jay Seneca

• 60
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #106 on: February 21, 2020, 04:36:24 PM »
If I’m on earth looking east it takes Earth 6 hours to turn 90 degrees to the north. If the moon is east of earth it takes 7 days to get to the same north of earth. So the earth spins 28x’s faster than that is what the moon is going around earth.

Yes, you move from E1 to E2 in approx 6 hours, the Moon moves from M1 to M2 in 7 days, so the Moon lags behind Earth rotation, leading it to move across the observer's sky from East to West.

But that's not what the Moon's shadow does, and it's the shadow that we're concerned with

It doesn't matter how long the Moon takes to get to M2, for it is not casting a shadow on Earth at that time. The shadow is cast in a straight line to the left of this graphic, a continuation of the line between Sun and Moon. The shadow crosses a distance in space roughly equal to Earth diameter - call this distance D, moving from point D1 to D2, upward in this graphic.

Since the Moon crosses this area of space faster than any point on Earth's surface is moving, the shadow moves from West to East. The shadow is crossing this area of space at 2000mph+, with the fastest point on Earth moving at linear speed less than 1000 mph. That gives the shadow a 1000mph+ speed from West to East.

So your saying the moon rises in the west and sets in the east.  Because that’s what they drawing show. I want to see a Scenario where the moon rises in the east, sets in the west, all three are in a straight line and the shadow still goes west to east.

#### Tumeni

• 1875
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #107 on: February 21, 2020, 04:47:21 PM »
So your saying the moon rises in the west and sets in the east.  Because that’s what they drawing show.

No, I'm not saying that;

Yes, you move from E1 to E2 in approx 6 hours, the Moon moves from M1 to M2 in 7 days, so the Moon lags behind Earth rotation, leading it to move across the observer's sky from East to West.

...and the drawings do not show that, either.

The drawings are a top-down view of the Earth/Moon system. They are not drawn from the viewpoint of the observer on Earth.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 04:57:46 PM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Tumeni

• 1875
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #108 on: February 21, 2020, 05:00:16 PM »
Do you agree that with the Sun way off to the right in the graphics, that the Moon's shadow (the blue highlights) will be cast in a straight line from the Moon, outward to the left?

The combination of the sunlight line and the shadow line will essentially be a straight line through the Moon.

Agreed?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Tumeni

• 1875
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #109 on: February 21, 2020, 05:28:19 PM »
The observer on Earth starts out with the Moon to his East, and that observer moves around 180 degrees in 12 hours approx.

The Moon completes around 12 degrees of its rotation each day, so in that 12 hours it will move around 6 degrees around the Earth.

In approximate terms, this is how it moves across the observer's sky from E to W; do you see how it starts in the observer's E, and ends up in his W?

=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Jay Seneca

• 60
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #110 on: February 21, 2020, 08:07:30 PM »
The observer on Earth starts out with the Moon to his East, and that observer moves around 180 degrees in 12 hours approx.

The Moon completes around 12 degrees of its rotation each day, so in that 12 hours it will move around 6 degrees around the Earth.

In approximate terms, this is how it moves across the observer's sky from E to W; do you see how it starts in the observer's E, and ends up in his W?

So when you draw that same diagram when there’s a full moon but on the opposite side of Earth,  the same principle should apply. And that would make the full moon go from west to east.  That is not what happens when there is a full moon. The moon still travels east to west because of the Earths spin.

#### thors_evil_twin

• 79
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #111 on: February 21, 2020, 08:12:35 PM »
No the moon always rises in the west and sets in the east, whether new, full or first or last quarter. The earth is rotating once every 24 hours, the moon is rotating the earth ~28 days.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 08:14:38 PM by thors_evil_twin »
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Inigo Montoya

#### Jay Seneca

• 60
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #112 on: February 21, 2020, 09:00:16 PM »
If I’m on earth looking east it takes Earth 6 hours to turn 90 degrees to the north. If the moon is east of earth it takes 7 days to get to the same north of earth. So the earth spins 28x’s faster than that is what the moon is going around earth.

Yes, you move from E1 to E2 in approx 6 hours, the Moon moves from M1 to M2 in 7 days, so the Moon lags behind Earth rotation, leading it to move across the observer's sky from East to West.

But that's not what the Moon's shadow does, and it's the shadow that we're concerned with

It doesn't matter how long the Moon takes to get to M2, for it is not casting a shadow on Earth at that time. The shadow is cast in a straight line to the left of this graphic, a continuation of the line between Sun and Moon. The shadow crosses a distance in space roughly equal to Earth diameter - call this distance D, moving from point D1 to D2, upward in this graphic.

Since the Moon crosses this area of space faster than any point on Earth's surface is moving, the shadow moves from West to East. The shadow is crossing this area of space at 2000mph+, with the fastest point on Earth moving at linear speed less than 1000 mph. That gives the shadow a 1000mph+ speed from West to East.

?
In 2017 why did the UMBRA last almost 13 hours. If the moon is traveling twice as fast as the Earth spins. The moon should have made it from one side of the Earth to the other side in less than 6 hours.

#### thors_evil_twin

• 79
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #113 on: February 21, 2020, 09:48:55 PM »
What I find even more interesting is that astronomers where able to predict the length of time the moon would be in the umbra before hand so that the public could watch it and marvel at the predictive nature of sound science.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Inigo Montoya

#### Tumeni

• 1875
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #114 on: February 21, 2020, 10:22:42 PM »
In 2017 why did the UMBRA last almost 13 hours. If the moon is traveling twice as fast as the Earth spins. The moon should have made it from one side of the Earth to the other side in less than 6 hours.

It didn't last 13 hours.

The eclipse path of totality started in the Pacific at around 16.30 UTC, made its way across North America, and left the Atlantic shortly after 20.00. A little less than four hours.

The speed over the surface will vary since the shadow is moving at linear speed over an area of space, but the Earth's surface is moving in a semi-circle below it.

EDIT to include graphic;

« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 10:26:57 PM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Tumeni

• 1875
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #115 on: February 21, 2020, 10:25:24 PM »
So when you draw that same diagram when there’s a full moon but on the opposite side of Earth,  the same principle should apply. And that would make the full moon go from west to east.

No, it would not.

EDIT to include graphic;

« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 10:38:05 PM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Jay Seneca

• 60
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #116 on: February 22, 2020, 03:03:53 AM »
Maybe I was off on my times but no difference, still doesn’t have enough time. Sometimes it’s hard to catch everything especially when they go back on original stuff like 2 years ago and changes all the eclipse paths. If you go through enough of the original live network videos(over 2 years ago) of eclipses l like CBS-ABC-NBC you’ll notice it doesn’t match with NASA data shows.  Paths are usually opposite than what they show now.

The moons travels about 2250mph. It has a radius of 1000 miles.  Earth has a diameter of 8000 miles.  At least half the moon most be over Earth to have be a total eclipse. That leaves 6000 miles of Earth that the moon has to cross over unless the shadow has a half of a shadow.  Then you can add the 1000 miles but I’ve not seen that happen yet. That about 2 1/2 hours the moon has to create a shadow.
It’s rough numbers but does my math sound about right.

Before Astronomers, I think the Egyptians were also able to predict solar eclipses.

#### Tumeni

• 1875
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #117 on: February 22, 2020, 09:15:37 AM »
Maybe I was off on my times but no difference, still doesn’t have enough time.

Why? Because you say so? Facts 'n' figures, please ...

Sometimes it’s hard to catch everything especially when they go back on original stuff like 2 years ago and changes all the eclipse paths. If you go through enough of the original live network videos(over 2 years ago) of eclipses l like CBS-ABC-NBC you’ll notice it doesn’t match with NASA data shows.  Paths are usually opposite than what they show now.

So you're basically abdicating on account of you don't remember it all properly, without providing evidence of these mismatches?

The moons travels about 2250mph. It has a radius of 1000 miles.  Earth has a diameter of 8000 miles.  At least half the moon most be over Earth to have be a total eclipse.

Why? Because you say so?

Also, the Moon crosses 8000 miles of space at 2250mph, but the shadow is passing over a hemisphere of Earth. The shadow speed, on the surface, will vary according to the arc of the surface being passed over.

Also, it makes no difference whether the shadow is passing over Earth or not. There will always be a full eclipse shadow passing over the region of space that we pass through, always at the same speed, it's just that Earth misses that shadow most of the time.

That leaves 6000 miles of Earth that the moon has to cross over unless the shadow has a half of a shadow.  Then you can add the 1000 miles but I’ve not seen that happen yet.

.. that you have not "seen" this is no disproof of anything

That about 2 1/2 hours the moon has to create a shadow. It’s rough numbers but does my math sound about right.

No, it does not sound right, and you don't seem to have done any real "math" ... but what's the time difference between first and last times on that graphic above .... 5pm to 8pm = how many hours?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 09:17:46 AM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### Tumeni

• 1875
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #118 on: February 22, 2020, 09:26:58 AM »
Do you agree, from two posts ago, that if we put the Moon on the "opposite" side of Earth, it still moves across the sky from E to W?

EDIT - Oh, and also - the Moon's shadow did not pass over a full diameter of Earth. It started in a region off the coast of Oregon and Washington, some 47 degrees North, and left off the coast of the Carolinas, at some point in the Atlantic some 10 - 15 degrees North.  So the linear distance covered was less than Earth's diameter.

EDIT 2 -

If the moon passed an equatorial region;

The Moon's actual path;

« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 12:45:52 PM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### proponent

• 51
##### Re: Moon and Stars
« Reply #119 on: February 22, 2020, 03:52:33 PM »
How is it possible that the moon doesn’t pass in front of any stars. I kind of understand how it works on a flat Earth. But I’m curious what’s the explanation for it on a round earth. And if it does, I’ve never seen it happen.  And I have watched the moon move across the night sky many of times.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The reason I've heard it is simply that they fly at the same altitude, at exactly the same speed, around the center of all those world，Under the action of the wind, just like the reason for the flight of the plane. The difference between the south and the north is the periphery and the center of the world. This is what I see in the Buddhist texts. The distances A person without special abilities can carefully identify are limited, and the sense of direction is determined mainly by the solar and lunar trajectories that one would actually experience if one explored the wild.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 04:02:22 PM by proponent »